THE ED MYLETT SHOW - The # 1 Mistake Entrepreneurs Make That's Killing Their Growth

Episode Date: January 18, 2025

Are You Making the #1 Mistake That’s Holding Back Your Growth? In this episode, I’m joined by some of the brightest minds in business and entrepreneurship to tackle one of the most common challenges: the critical mistake entrepreneurs make that stunts their success. Featuring Marc Randolph, Gunnar Peterson, Billy Gene, David Novak, and David Sinclair, this episode is packed with transformative lessons you can implement immediately to grow your business and yourself. Marc Randolph, the co-founder of Netflix, shares his insights on embracing failure and falling in love with the problem, not the solution. His story about testing ideas quickly and creatively—like mailing a CD to prove Netflix's original concept—will inspire you to take bold, decisive action without overthinking. Gunnar Peterson brings his unique perspective from the fitness industry, emphasizing how every interaction with a customer or client is an opportunity to create a positive experience they’ll remember. Billy Gene explains his journey from struggling entrepreneur to marketing guru, highlighting how ignorance and arrogance can derail your business. His raw and relatable stories of early mistakes remind us of the importance of learning from others and embracing humility. David Novak dives into the art of leadership, explaining the concept of managing "two up and two down" to ensure you're building strong relationships with your team and the higher-ups who can influence your career. Finally, David Sinclair offers a glimpse into the future of longevity and how entrepreneurs can position themselves in emerging industries by focusing on trends and surrounding themselves with exceptional people. Key Takeaways: - Fail Forward: Learn how to treat failure as a stepping stone rather than a setback. - Client Experience Matters: Gunnar’s advice on making every customer interaction exceptional. - Learn Before You Leap: Billy Gene’s journey underscores the value of mentorship and humility. - Lead with Vision: David Novak's strategies for managing relationships and motivating teams. - Future-Proof Your Business: David Sinclair’s insights on trends and innovation in emerging industries. As entrepreneurs, the choices we make every day determine the trajectory of our businesses. This conversation is your blueprint for identifying and correcting the mistakes that may be holding you back. Don’t just listen—apply these lessons and watch your business thrive. Let’s take your growth to the next level. You’re capable of more than you realize. Thank you for watching this video—Please Share it and get the word out! What part of this video resonated with you the most? Comment below! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This message comes from Greenlight. Ready to start talking to your kids about financial literacy? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app that teaches kids and teens how to earn, save, spend wisely, and invest with your guardrails in place. With Greenlight, you can send money to kids quickly, set up chores, automate allowance, and keep an eye on your kids' spending with real-time notifications. Join millions of parents and kids building healthy financial habits together on Greenlight. Get started risk-free at Greenlight.com slash pod. So hey guys listen we're all trying to get more productive and the

question is how do you find a way to get an edge? I'm a big believer that if you getting mentoring or you're in an environment that causes growth, a growth-based environment, that you're much more likely to grow and you're gonna grow faster and that's why I love Growth Day. Growth Day is an app that my friend Brendan Richard has created that I'm a big fan of. Write this down, growthday.com forward slash ed. So if you want to be more productive, by the way, he's asked me, I post videos in there every single Monday that gets your day off to the right start.

He's got about five thousand and ten thousand dollars worth of courses that are in there that come with the app. Also, some of the top influencers in the world are all posting content in there on a regular basis like having the Avengers of personal development and Business in one app and I'm honored that he asked me to be a part of it as well and contribute on a weekly basis And I do so go over there and get signed up You're gonna get a free tuition free voucher to go to an event with Brendan and myself and a bunch of other Influencers as well. So you get a free event out of it also. So go to growthday.com forward slash ed that to growthday.com forward slash ed. That's growthday.com forward slash ed. This is the Ed Mylett Show.

Hey everyone, welcome to my weekend special. I hope you enjoy the show. Be sure to follow the Ed Mylett show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. You'll never miss an episode that way. A lot of you have been asking me if I would cover some stuff on business and being a leader in business and some of the things that I've learned over the years in terms of lessons that have helped me grow and scale different businesses.

And so, I'm gonna do that with you this week. Obviously, this could be a hundred hours if we wanted it to be. So I'm going to try to do is cover some things that I think are less covered when the topics of business and leadership come up, just to give you additional things to add to your tool chest as a leader. And so first thing is that I want to talk about a couple of books that I read that really impacted me as an entrepreneur on my journey. I read a book many, many years ago by an author named Michael Gerber called The E-Myth, and it really made me look at business differently.

It's a really brilliant book about the nature of being an entrepreneur. And in this book, there's many things that I took away, but to this day, I remember him saying, if you're a good entrepreneur, you're gonna picture your business as a product, actually sitting on a shelf. picture your business as a product actually sitting on a shelf, the actual business is a product. And then you can pull that product off the shelf and you can look

at every single element of that business on its own. And he talks in the book about many people suffer from what he calls like an entrepreneurial seizure, he calls it. Meaning that there's a bunch of people who have gone into entrepreneurship who don't know the difference between working on their business and in their business. So I want to start out by talking a little bit about that. This entrepreneurial seizure that I learned about is that like a lot of people have a passion for something. Let's say they're a great baker. They go, I'd love to open up a bakery. And so what you end up having is a baker who's a technician owning a bakery, but they don't know how to run a business.

And so they work in their business all the time on the logistics of the baking and putting the product out there. But everything from marketing to scaling to inventory, to taxes, to HR, to, you know, profitability, these are things they don't understand as an entrepreneur. And so they're very much a technician in their business. Technicians have a tendency to have a passion or have focus. Like I watch a lot of people

that are in the financial business. They're very technically good at what they're doing in their business. So they work in their business, but they don't know how to work on it where they scale and grow a business. I've watched this with people that own gyms, that they're passionate about fitness,

they're passionate about people getting in shape. And so they're great at the technical writing of the nutrition plan and and having trainers and having the best equipment So they work in their business very very well But they're not so good at working on it from a bigger perspective on growing it and scaling it and getting above it and looking at their business as a Product itself sitting on a shelf that needs everything any other product would need. If you have a product, a normal product you market, right?

You're looking at all of it. You're looking at its cost. You're looking at its scalability. You're looking at its value. You're looking at the difference that it makes. You're looking at every element of how it feels when someone's consuming it, everything about it. Yet, most people don't look at their businesses this way.

So there's two mistakes entrepreneurs make. There's the entrepreneur who's the technician, in my opinion when I've watched this over the years, they're very technically savvy at whatever their career is. Whether that be real estate or like I said, nutrition, or they've got a chain of dry cleaners, or they're a baker, they own restaurant. They're very good technically at that part of the business,

but they don't work on their business. So they work in it too much. a baker, they own restaurant, they're very good technically at that part of the business, but they don't work on their business. So they work in it too much. Then there's the reverse. I watch a lot of entrepreneurs who no longer really work in their business. I've made this mistake where they only work on it. They're only thinking, they're only strategizing, but they don't work in it enough to know what the market requires, to know what the problems are that their employees are experiencing,

to know what the client or the consumer really wants to have in their life. And so they no longer work in it. They don't get their hands dirty enough. It's one of the mistakes that where many entrepreneurs begin to lose their businesses, they start out working in it. And then at some point they know, man, I got to begin to work on it or it's not going to grow. And then what happens is they begin to work on it only and they take the best player off the bench. Oftentimes, the best salesperson, the best marketer, the best vision caster is you. Yet, because you think you need to work on it now, you take yourself completely

out of it and now all you do is work on your business. I've found most of the great entrepreneurs, depending on the stage of their business, have learned a nuance part of the time working on it and other times working in it. I found that when I'm working in my businesses, I'm much more effective at working on it and knowing what I can do to grow it and scale it. But when I lose the ability to work in it and I've made this mistake, I'm not as savvy at knowing what will grow it, what will move it. And so, you got to ask yourself this and also stage of business. Some of you keep hearing all the time, you got to work on your business, you got to be

a thinker but not in the beginning stage. In the beginning stages of a business, you're mainly working in it. This requires your grit, your grind, your marketing, your sales, your everything. And so, really business becomes about learning the transitions and the ratios of working on it and working in it. And obviously, as a company gets bigger and bigger and bigger, the leader of that company will be working on it more and more and in it less and less. But I still believe the great CEOs, the great leaders that I know, still walk the floor, still go with employees, still go on ride along, still want to know what's going on so they're in touch with the current marketplace in order to know how to work on it.

And so, I just want you to begin to look at yourself as an entrepreneur and ask yourself today, am I working on my business enough or am I only working in it? Where I can't see the forest for the trees, I'm basically in it in the grind but I don't have a real marketing plan, I don't have in the grind but I don't have a real marketing plan. I don't have a scaling plan. I don't have a growth strategy. I'm not doing the things and pushing the levers that'll make this thing bigger. That's one type of entrepreneur. The other one is saying, no, I'm the reverse. I've got so much working on this thing. I'm so much of a thinker. I have so many meetings. I'm not in the day-to-day grind like I need to be and I need to be working in my business more often This ratio this nuance this rhythm

I believe is one of the biggest keys not discussed anymore in business That will be a telltale sign as to how you grow or if you grow in your business the best entrepreneurs Know how much time to be on it and how much time to be in it and they do they are not delusional One way or the other they're honest. They go. I am just in it all the time grind grind grind. I don't ever look up I don't have a plan. I don't have a three hundred thousand or thirty thousand foot perspective I don't know where I'm taking this thing. I'm just gonna get around to that That's a problem The other problem is the one who doesn't do that at all anymore though

And that's a lot of people because they they don't really enjoy being in the grind of their business any longer. And so, they would prefer to be just working on it all the time and get away from what is the hard work, the real work in life. And so, begin to nuance that based on the stage of your business. The next thing that I want to talk about is you being focused on the experience you're creating for your customers and your employees or your let's say independent contractors depending on your business. What gets people coming back, what gets people giving you referrals without you having to ask for them is how they felt when they did business with you. So, step back today and ask yourself, what's the experience you're creating for your customer

or your client? Not just whether the product benefits them. What was the experiencing that getting them there? Did they feel grinded on? Did they feel pushed too much? Did they feel taken advantage of? Did they feel too pressured? Did they not enjoy the process?

You have to look at everything from how they interact with your team to post-sale experience, to during the transaction. Every element is experience generated as an entrepreneur. And I think one of the things that's lost nowadays is, how many sales did you get? How much marketing did you do? What was the profitability? Does the product help people?

That's all great. But the greatest companies give you the best experiences. The best restaurants you've ever been to, it's an experience, right? Dealing with even your phone, like what's the experience of using the phone, the experience of buying the phone? Every element of every business, when you walk into a gym, what's the experience like when you walk in? I've been to gyms where I walk in and the person who greets you in the front,

I can tell as well, Trang, good morning, Mr. Mylet, it's great to have you here, have a great workout today, how are you? I've also walked in where they're like on their computer, hey, good, just click in right there. And immediately you're disconnected. The experience of being in the gym where, you know,

what's the music they play in there? How well, how kept is the gym? Are the weights re-racked? All these different things are part of the experience of being in any business. Yet most entrepreneurs, the busier and busier they get, they become less and less connected to the experience. The experience is what gets you referrals. The experience is what gets you more clients.

The experience is what you get in terms of repeatability. If a client can renew with you, if you have that type of a business,, word of mouth and then also the experience of working for you. Is it joyful? Is it fun? Is it exciting? Is it productive? Is it growth oriented? Do they feel like they're contributing? Do they feel a sense of certainty yet have variety in their business? Do they get recognition? Are they good? Are you good at recognition which I'll talk about in a little bit? So, these are all elements I think that are under discussed which is why I'm throwing them out at you today because a lot of you that listen today are entrepreneurs are Entrepreneurs at least and or want to be one if you're not one and you'd like the lessons of doing it

The next thing is another book that I read was called selling the dream many many years ago written by Guy Kawasaki And Kawasaki was basically as I get it kind of like the marketing guy for Apple for Macintosh back in the day. And what I learned from that book was that although the entrepreneur needs to learn how to be in their business and on it, they need to learn how to create the experience. The next level, I believe that's under discussed, is their ability to cast a vision, is to sell the dream. He talks a lot about how Steve Jobs and after that was so great at selling the dream and casting the vision. It's something that I took very seriously. I had to look at myself and say, how good am I at

selling the dream? Remember this, as a leader of a company, of a business, whatever it might be, a real estate office, a gym, whatever it may be, you need to be able to sell a big enough vision and dream that the dreams of everybody who works with you, they can see themselves fitting inside that dream or their dreams coming true inside the dream you're selling. Okay? And it's got to be a real dream. And so, the best leaders are great dream sellers. And one of the things they're reminded of, of repeating that dream over and over again, and also that they sell it in such a way that the people that work with them can see

their dreams fitting inside the one they're selling and marketing. Now, by the way, it's got to be a real dream. Also, one thing as a leader, write this down, it needs to be repeated more often than you think. You almost have to get almost tired of saying it yourself and thinking you're saying it too much because business is not about saying new things to old people. It's about saying old things to new people. You've got to be really good at repeating the vision, repeating the dream. The more something is repeated, and by the way, we'll talk about in a minute other things you have to do, the more it's repeated, the more it's likely to happen. And I think entrepreneurs get what I call like a leadership fatigue of just repeating

the vision, repeating the dream, thinking everyone's already got it already. No, everybody doesn't have it already. And oftentimes they need re-reminding and oftentimes you need re-reminding. So that's selling the dream. And I want you to write this down. Number one thing you got to do when you sell the dream and I've made this mistake, you need to back it up with your personal example. You validate the dream by showing up and working hard and maybe that's in the business and

maybe it's on the business. But I have to tell you that if you set the example and I've done a great job of this in my career and there's other times candidly where I haven't where I've just gotten so busy or have so many other things going on that my own example suffered and then the dream isn't as valid. It's not as real for everybody around you but if they see you showing up early, leaving late, doing the things that leaders do, that example can scream more loudly than even the repeating of the vision. Like I said, there's stages of my career I've been tremendous at it and in self-reflection there's been other times in my career I was spread too thin or not focused enough and

I wish I had been and that's why I'm sharing this with you. So, being an example of selling the dream is important. Second thing is this, in addition to selling the dream, I think you need to consider what are you also against or do you have an enemy or is there something that you're trying to eradicate? So, I would write down against or enemy or eradication. I think great businesses have a big dream they're trying to create and they also have something maybe they stand against that they want to fix or correct an injustice. Have something

that you also can say, and this is what we're not, or this is what we're going to fix, or this is the challenge. Oftentimes, great businesses have this big vision and they're also like, and we're going to eradicate this problem. This is a challenge. This is what people need. There's this huge need in the market. And so, what are you against? If you could find something you're against or you stand against or you want to fix or you want to improve or an enemy even in business, these are things that help solidify your business that's not talked about enough. The third thing is cause. What cause are you after? What's your crusade? What's your mission? Mission-driven, cause-oriented leaders who sell big dreams, man, that also have something

they're against. That cause is something so many people in their life have a huge need for contribution. They want to be a part of something bigger than themselves, particularly young people in our country right now. All the data tells us that young people right now would rather make less money and be a part of something they think is making a difference in the world than ever before. But I can tell you as a guy who's not a young person that I think most human beings are wired that way. Now, let's step back for a second. You've got this business where you're working on it the right amount and in it. You've found that example. You're selling a big dream that you're

repeating that the dreams of everybody can fit inside, Right? You've got that part going for you. You solidify it with an example. You're standing against something or something you want to fix an injustice. Now you've got a cause and a crusade and a mission. Man, you've got something special now. You're starting to put together a business. And by the way, as you're listening to this or watching it today, maybe you're checking most of these boxes but you're missing one, then use the things I'm covering. They go, that's the ones for me or maybe it's all of it. But the reason I'm throwing out these things, I'm gonna throw a few more out at you, is I want you to go, that's the one we're missing or that's where we're a little bit off or that's the thing I need to shift and change or

that's the one I got to emphasize more right now. Business is like, it's almost like spinning tops. Sometimes one of them getting a little bit wobbly, you're gonna go spin that one. You know those tops you see. So, sometimes you're like, man, we're doing a great job of selling a dream, but man, it's been a long time since we've really talked about our cause and our mission. Or you know what? We're really mission driven right now, but we haven't talked enough about what we're trying to eradicate or fix. Or I'm spending way too much time working in it, I got to start working on it more often or maybe it's the reverse. Maybe right now you're like, man, I am so working at 30,000 feet,

I need to get back to the grindstone and do more selling and marketing myself. So, cause is the next one. After that, great leaders do what I'm going to give you next, they transfer skill, they're teachers. Great leaders are not just motivators or inspirers, they're teachers and if they can't be, they put people in place who can teach the skills required. It's one thing to be good at something, it's another thing to transfer that skill well to people and just being good at something does not make you a great teacher. In fact, like in baseball for example, most of the great coaches weren't great players. They were okay players. Some didn't even play at all.

And the reason is that a lot of times a really great player can't relate to someone who doesn't have their talent or drive or ambition and they're not great at transferring the skill because they did things so naturally. And so, a lot of times the way you're doing it isn't duplicatable, isn't transferable to other people, whatever that is in business. And so, make sure that you're transferring skills. Great leaders transfer skill. They teach, they equip people is what John Maxwell calls it, equipping people.

And then the last thing I want you to consider today is recognition. I believe great leaders are exceptional at recognizing people. People who run great companies are exceptional at recognition. Recognizing their clients, if there's such a way to do that, and giving them acknowledgement and praise, but especially recognizing the people that work with them every single day. They find reasons to recognize. I think they create two types of awards, spontaneous awards that are just based on values and delivering on the company's core values and standards. And then sometimes what I call like historic awards, like every year, you know there's going to give away an MVP award or a most supportive person every year.

But what they're doing is they're looking for ways to recognize people. I'm telling you that we're a world stripped of recognition, that if you'd begin to look at everybody that you meet, I learned this very young in business, they've got a flashing sign on them that says, make me feel good, make me feel special, tell me how great I am today. And in my case, I would say to you and say it with certainty, say it with truth, say it with passion, that you got to get better at recognizing people, publicly and privately. The best recognition is not just in public, it can also be done one-on-one where someone comes in and say, listen, just sit down for a second.

I haven't told you enough lately how much I appreciate you, how grateful we are to have you here, how amazing you are. I have to tell you, recognizing people is a trait of all the best leaders that I've ever worked with in my career. If you made me pick the five best leaders that I've ever worked with, I could tell you that I would probably pick them based on their ability to sell the dream, their unrelenting example, their incredible ability to express our cause and what we're standing against. They were really great at teaching me something, but man, probably above everything, they made

me feel a certain way about myself, the work I was doing and that I mattered. And so take a look at how you recognize people. Have traditional historic type awards and have spontaneous stuff, have things people have to earn and things they didn't have to earn at all just for who they are. And if you get become a great master recognizer of people and you do the other things I've discussed today, I think you're a better business leader than before this podcast.

And so the reason I wanted to teach these things to you today and bring them up is they're not things discussed often enough, right? And so if we go all the way back to the beginning, by the way, if you want to go get the E-Myth, I think it's a great read. If you want to go read Selling the Dream, I think it's a great read.

If you want to read The Power of One More, where I talk about some of these things in this book, but today was really stuff that's even not in the book. I recommend it, my book, The Power of One More. And so be great about selling the dream. Be great about working on your business and not in it. Do an unbelievable job of focus on the experiencing you're creating for the people that work with you

and your customers and clients. Sell that dream big enough that everybody's dreams can fit in it. Make sure you're against something or you're standing for something or want to eradicate something, have an enemy. Focus on your cause, set a great example, transfer skill and recognize people. And I think you'll have some sort of upgrade into the way that you lead.

I hope today helped you. I went through a bunch really, really, really, really quickly because I feel so strongly about this and I like to keep these episodes sort of tight and concise. And also I wanted to cover things that aren't covered all the time. Leadership, being an entrepreneur, there's hundreds of things that we can cover. This is a very short list of just things that I've found lately as I see content and read books just aren't discussed very much anymore. The E-Myth is a very old book. Selling the Dream is a very old book and the things that I'm talking about today are tried and true principles and the applications can be

done different in modern times. What skill do I think is the most important as an entrepreneur? That's a really difficult question but if I could go back and you could only give me one skill to begin with and I had to build from all of it, I can tell you for sure what it would be for me and that would be the ability to influence. So it's the ability to persuade people. Without that skill set the vast majority of my wealth does not exist. If you can't persuade people, if you can't influence people to make decisions that are in their own best interest but that also grow your business, your brand, your company, your

net worth, you can't ever become successful. One thing that everybody I know that's a leader and everything they do can do is persuade people. Now, I watch people do that in all different types of ways. Some do it through intimidation, some do it through force, some do it through humor, some do it through persuasive strategies, transfer of energy, you name it. But all leaders can persuade all successful people, can get people to make decisions in their own best interests that also get them to participate with their company. It's the number one skill that I see most people not spending the most time on is their ability to communicate,

their ability to persuade people and because they're constantly trying to go to a different course or they think that somehow if their product is good enough or they get the right sales pitch that somehow they're gonna win but the fact of the matter is you've got to become a better persuader. I'm constantly personally working on that skill and refining it. My ability to persuade from the stage through the camera here to get you to make the decisions that are in your own best interest, to persuade you that I can help you, to persuade my children. When I'm negotiating, I'm buying a company or buying a car or buying a jet.

It's my ability to persuade people to make the decision that's in their own best interest to participate with me. And so if I was a quarterback in football, it's my ability to persuade the team to work the hardest, to run the best routes, to get open, to give it all they've got. Head coaches in football, school teachers, their ability to persuade and influence, pastors, you name it, personal trainer, they've got to persuade people to do the exercise, that they're the expert. So it's our ability constantly to influence and persuade people that I think is the number one skill in life. And so if that's the case, what are some of the keys in doing that?

So number one thing as a business leader that you should be evaluating is are you constantly refining, constantly getting better, constantly making alterations, constantly being aware of how you can improve in all of these areas. The thing that happens when I say that to most people that are average, let me tell you what their response is, I already have that, I already got that down, I'm already persuasive, I already can do that. And even as I say that to people, I hear people all the time say, oh I'm already good at that. Let me be very very clear with you as a friend, if you were really good at that, you'd be more wealthy. You'd be happier. You'd have a bigger business. You'd have a better family life

than you have. So it's your vast overestimation of your ability about that one skill set that is probably gonna hold you back more than anything. As a friend, let me tell you, you're nowhere near as good as you think you are at that skill. And the fact that you think you're great at it may be your greatest detriment to moving forward in your life because you don't think there's this gap between where you should be and where you are that will cause you to do the work to get there. So I never overestimate my ability to persuade. I always think I can get better.

I always think I can grow. And I know there are multiple areas and sectors in which we persuade people. So I might be really good speaking from the stage but the question is how am I in front of 30,000 people or 100 people? How about one-on-one? How about in my family? How about to a group of three? What about in a boardroom? What about the white-collar people? What about the blue-collar people? What about in my personal life, right? What about getting people just to make their best effort? What about in putting money somewhere? And so there are thousands of areas in which we persuade people,

persuade people to like you, persuade people to laugh at your joke, right? So constantly when you buy something, persuade them. When you sell something, persuade them. Persuade your children. So it's your overestimation and thinking you're great at that that that constantly holds you back. You're nowhere near as good at that as you think you are and the fact that you think it is already an indication you're not very good at it. So you might be great in one area but not great in the others. And so please don't check the box and think you're outstanding at that because if someone

who's spoken in front of millions of people on stages from 60,000 people to six people who's made millions and hundreds of millions of dollars in business, traveled the world and multiple different businesses in athletics. I've coached athletes, entertainers, politicians, business people one-on-one and I coach in large groups. If I know I need to get better in those areas, I would submit to you that you probably do as well because I'm not as good as I could be or as good as I should be in almost every area of persuasion. Having said that, let's take the business context for a second. One thing I want to challenge you to be as a leader of your business, whether it's

just you're a leader of one which is you as a salesperson or a leader of ten as a team or a company of 25,000 employees is you must become evangelical about your cause and your mission. The greatest business people have an evangelical property about them. They're evangelizing all the time. They're propagating the strengths, the benefits of their business, of their mission, of their cause. One of the great evangelists of all time is Steve Jobs. There's a great book written by a guy named Guy Kawasaki many years ago called Selling the Dream. And in that book, he talks about the way that Steve Jobs sold the dream of Apple.

And he literally called him an evangelist for the cause. There's a great story in that book about Steve Jobs when he was recruiting. He knew he needed to have a CEO of his company. And he wanted to have the best. And at that time, there was a man named Scully who was the head of Pepsi. And Jobs was this young kid in his 20s

trying to recruit this executive who had made millions of dollars. And he couldn't get him. executive who had made millions of dollars and he couldn't get them and he couldn't get them and he couldn't get them and finally he gets the voicemail back in those days, the answering machine actually of Scully and he says listen, listen man, when you're tired of selling sugar water to kids over there at Pepsi and you want to come change the world frickin call me back and we'll do it together. Boom and he hangs up, right? He was evangelical at the cause.

Sugar Water and Pepsi changed the world at Apple, right? And Scully, who's making millions of dollars, he's CEO of one of the most powerful companies in the world, looks to his wife and she says, I think he's right. We aren't changing the world. And it was that one cause-oriented evangelical phone call from Steve Jobs, and it exuded out of his pores. Every stage speech he gave, every one-on-on-one every board meeting when he'd meet with their software engineers when he'd meet with the programmers he was always

evangelical internally and externally and built a culture of one of the greatest movements of all time in the history of business there's great lessons there about being evangelical the greatest presidential or political leaders have an evangelical property about them. The greatest salespeople do. The greatest dads, the greatest pastors, they're evangelical aren't they? So you've got to become more of an evangelist for your cause and your mission. Number one. Number two. You have to sell a big enough dream to your team, to your company, to your clients, to the people around you, that the dreams of everybody associated with you can fit inside the one year selling. It's got to

be big, it's got to be bold, it's got to be expanding. Number three, it's got to be repetitious. You can't get tired of saying the same things over and over and over again. One of the deficiencies of leaders that are weak is they constantly think they have to say new things to old people. Creating new things to say to old people. The best leaders say old things to new people. They say the same things over and over again to more and more new people. New teammates, new employees, new recruits, new clients, new speeches, new groups, right?

They say old things to new people. They're repeating over and over the vision and the cause of their business, of their movement. These are great communicators. The next thing, all great communicators understand whether it's words, physiology, the look you give somebody, or writing. Influence is energy. It's the transfer of energy. It's getting you to feel about my company, feel about my mission, feel about my you to feel about my company feel about my mission feel about my product feel about my cause what I feel They're conscious of transferring energy to people because that's what moves people. That's what gets them to act It's not just the words. It's not just your face. It's not just how you're dressed. It's an energy transfer There's a hook by the way

You can't transfer to me that what you're not experiencing yourself. You have to physically be experiencing it in the moment. It can't just be the words you're reading from a sheet. You have to really believe it. One of the reasons a lot of salespeople struggle or recruiters struggle is they just don't believe enough. They don't spend enough time making the case like a lawyer litigating to themselves about how powerful what they do is. And the more and more you really believe you're a true believer You can evangelize your product you can evangelize your message So invest more time in your own belief in your research in your knowledge

Finding third-party articles magazines blogs things that reinforce Whatever it is you're doing that feeds your own belief that way you can give it to me You can't give it to me if you don't have it. And so they don't spend enough time. Spend more time feeding your own belief and be conscious of the transfer of energy to another person. There's a great study out right now that I was just reading about bees and them deciding which flower to pollinate is based on the energy the flower puts off. They sense the energy from the flower and they move towards that one deciding to pollinate that one. Well,

if you want more people to pollinate your business, pollinate your life, if you want to track the right relationship, the right amount of money, the right clients, the right employees, the right recruits, the right vendors, the right support, you're going to be putting off that energy because people are going to pollinate it somewhere. You want them pollinating with you, right? And that's an energy feeling they get from people. The bottom line is people gotta be, when they get around you, they gotta feel something special about you, special about where you're going,

special about your cause, special about your mission. That something special's happening, something historic, something big, a big old dream. In fact, one big enough that my dream can fit inside the one these people are selling me, right? And so this is the key of moving people. The number one skill, go all the way back to the beginning, my number one skill that if I could keep only one would be this right here, the ability to persuade people in multiple areas of my life. How do I get better at it? Transfer energy, number one, feed your belief, number two, number three, make sure that it's repetitious over and over again. Say

old things to new people, right? And you got to be evangelical and sell a big old dream. The bottom line is, is that this is a process that never ends of growing us, of growing our ability to persuade people. One of the things about communicating as well is doing it with a lot of specificity. Great communicators, great influencers, great persuaders are very specific and very clear about what their message is. And so even communicating yourself and leading yourself. I grew up walking this beach right here, this exact beach. And I didn't live like this, but I told my family someday, told myself someday, I'm going to live on this beach.

I didn't know who these people were that owned all these beach houses. I didn't know exactly how you got one. But I began to repetitiously transfer that energy to myself about my dream over and over again, literally thousands if not millions of times. And now someday it happened. Now that day is here. and I live on this beach as one of four homes that I own. And so that's how you communicate with yourself and others, that transfer of energy. I can tell you that in my own situation, I'm always trying to, how do I evolve it?

How do I modify it? How do I feed my own belief more? How do I sell it bigger? How do I back it up with more facts? The best leaders sell a big old vision. They tell a great story. The best people I know are great storytellers. Remember this, facts tell, stories sell. Most people make decisions emotionally from the story. They rationalize it logically with the facts. So make sure you're selling a big dream, a big story, and then you give people the facts. This is the way we begin to move people in

our lives. This is the skill of entrepreneurs. This is the skill of building something big and building something small and building something permanent too, is your ability to persuade. Focus on your energy, focus on your belief level, and focus on refining your message. The last thing is this, say it faster and say it quicker. Less is more. You don't have to tell them everything you know. Leave a little bit to the imagination. One thing that happens, the longer and longer we're in business, the longer and longer we're around, the more and more we learn. We

feel compelled to tell someone everything we know about our product, everything we know about the business, and that's not how you energize people. You give them just enough and then shut up. My dad used to tell me when I was a kid, when I'd be asking for money to take my girlfriend to the movies, he'd say, hey, don't sell past the close, right? He had already agreed and I'd keep selling them, I'd keep selling them, and sometimes I'd lose them with this extra BS I'd be giving them. So I want to challenge you, don't sell past the close. So of all things in business, right, time management, goal setting, vision, identity,

all those things we're going to talk about on this channel are very important. But if you can't communicate, if you can't persuade, you are toast. The last thing I would say to you, how do I get better? There's lots of books, lots of tapes, but it's really for me, it's modeling. I learned to model certain people initially and then modify. Model and modify. So I would model people, not copy them, but I would model certain people's styles, one or two different people, and then I'd modify it to fit my own personality. Model and modify, right? Don't try to create everything on your own and don't try to copy somebody else that's different than you. You've got to be you. So model and modify.

The last thing I would tell you is, to the extent that you can transfer this skill to other people, will be to the extent that you can scale your business. So it's one thing to be able to persuade yourself and transfer energy. It's an entirely other thing to equip other people around you to do likewise. The best leaders are not just evangelical about their cause, can't just transfer energy. They have the ability to transfer that skill of transferring energy to other people and then you begin to build your movement whether that's one or two or ten or 25,000 or millions and millions of people. Sometimes your clients can be your top evangelizers for you when they use your product.

So it's your ability to transfer that skill and you have to do that through repetition. The way to transfer the skill of energy to people is through repetition and role play. Repetition and role play. Far too many people just talk and teach their teams how to do things. They talk at them rather than work with them. The way you get me to do it is there's no substitute for experience. A hundred hours in the classroom is worth one hour in the field. A hundred hours of teaching is worth one hour of roleplay where we do it together. Getting them on the stage, getting them...when I started

speaking, one of the great speakers that he was an older guy so this is gonna date him, but when I first started speaking I got on the great speakers that he was an older guy, so this is going to date him, but when I first started speaking, I got on the stage and I would open up for this one speaker. And when I'd come off stage, he was really an older guy, but he'd say, what was it like to play on stage with Elvis? Meaning he was the Elvis, right? But I got to know what it was like to be on the same stage with the Elvis of speaking at that time. And in business, too often we just talk at people and don't let them get on stage with you Elvis.

There's not enough role play, there's not enough engagement. And so it's repetition over and over. Repetition is the mother of learning, repetition is the mother of skill, it's the mother of owning it over and over and over and over again until it becomes reflexive. Because when the words and the message and the energy becomes reflexive then when you're under pressure, when you're stressed, when you're down, when the client's objecting, you reflexively respond with your habit but if you don't have that habit, that reflex, you begin to respond and lose energy and so the reason repetition matters is it allows your responses to be reflexive

under pressure and then the second thing is role play. There's no substitute for that experience of being on stage with Elvis. I say it, you say it. I say it, you say it. And it's not just the words, it's the feeling. It's the transfer of energy. The number one skill of entrepreneurs

and leaders of entrepreneurs is the ability to persuade. And hopefully these were some of the tips that you should be conscious of, of becoming world class at it. Knowing you'll never be world-class at it, knowing we can always get better, we can always stretch, we can always grow and improve our skills in multiple areas. Hope this helps you. Alright, it's that time here it's cold out. One of my favorite things I've gone back to is hot chocolate. I'm doing that all the time right now and I love laying on the couch with a blanket

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a new dimension of sporting luxury. Build your Range Rover Sport at LandRoverUSA.com. Very short intermission here, folks. I'm glad you're enjoying the show so far. Don't forget to follow the show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. Now on to our next guest. I'm so excited today.

We have a guest today that founded this little company you've never heard of before. He was the first CEO as well. And we're just real proud of him. He's getting his little business career going. I say that with some humor because this man founded a company called Netflix, which every single one of you is probably a subscriber to by this point.

Mark Randolph, welcome to the show. Thank you for being here. Oh, it's a pleasure Ed, thanks for having me. And you know, I know I'm sure everyone in the show has heard of Netflix. My real question usually is how many of you are paying for it? I read this blog you wrote,

I think you might've wrote it a year ago, but you republished it recently, or at least it came out about the elephant in the room. And when I was coming up in business, I had a good fortune of getting to know Jack Walsh just a little bit. And one of Jack's big principles was candor, being candid with people. Could you share with everybody the story about when you were let go at your job and then your philosophy about, you know, discussing the hard things in business and the elephant in the room. This is huge everybody.

Yeah, you know, it's, people have this false sense of wanting to preserve people's, not hurt somebody's feelings. And you don't, what I've kind of learned is that you're never fooling anybody. And worse when there's an employee who's not working out. And out of perhaps your sense of goodness, you're trying to make it work or you don't want to hurt their feelings or you go, this person, it's terrible for two big reasons. One is people aren't stupid and they can see that this person is not performing. And then they, worse, they form the opinion about you and they go either Mark is stupid and he cannot tell that this person is a loser. Or even worse, Mark is weak and he's afraid to do something about it. And wow, that has always kind of resonated with me when all of a sudden I realized how

it backfires when you're not doing something about it. And I was like, wow, that is always kind of resonated with me when all of a sudden I realized how it backfires when you're afraid to take action. And there's so many examples of this. I mean, listen, listen, we've all worked for companies before and there's this classic thing when someone is not performing and they put them on a, I get, would you call it a PIP, a product, a performance improvement plan or something stupid like that. Yeah. And I go, that is such cruel and unusual punishment that we're gonna do this Kabuki theater for six months where I'm gonna pretend that you're gonna actually get good at your

job and you're gonna pretend you're gonna go through with it but both of us know you're gonna get ultimately fired and all I'm doing is covering my ass. How much better it is to call the person in and say, Ed, it's not working out. You know it. I can know it. We all know this. But it's not because you're a bad person.

It's because you're just not a good match for what we need right now. And let me help you find a great job. I'll give you the recommendations. I believe in you. Let's find something that works. God, that's just such a, I mean, listen, the person is going to be shocked. It hurts to lose your job. I'm not saying it makes it easy, but when you look back on it, everyone feels better about there being honesty behind this whole, this whole

approach. I agree. And just so you know, this was born out of a situation where you lost your job and you basically taught your boss and to letting you stay. out of a situation where you lost your job and you basically taught your boss and to let you stay ridiculous. Yeah. I said, I heard this stupid story that this is what, you know, years and years ago, but I'd heard that it's easier to get a job when you have a job. So I talked him into saying, let me stay for whatever it was, two months or

whatever it was, the severance they were going to give me. And it was terrible because I was the walking dead. Everyone knew that I'd been fired. But we were all playing along with this ridiculous play acting. And of course I didn't use the time to get another job. Yeah, what it does is it erodes your culture. When you don't have candor,

when you keep people around that shouldn't be around or at least move their butt to a different seat, it erodes the culture in your company and you just don't perform at the level that you could. And business is millimeters, it's inches. These little things are the differentiation between having an exit someday or becoming a world-class company or even you becoming a millionaire or multimillionaire and not these little things that we're talking about here. The other one though that you speak very eloquently about, I really love the way that you talk about this, is dealing with failure. So the more and more

as I get older as an entrepreneur and just observing humans, my son wants to become in one of my companies in the financial industry and sales and dad do you think I'd do well because he's articulate and patient and hard working and I said said, I said, max, yes, but here's my concern. Can you really deal with rejection and failure? Because ultimately that's what takes people out most of the time. Yet it's talked about in the 10 things you should do, but to me, it may actually be the most important thing

is your ability to deal and how you process failure ultimately. And you, you speak about like 97.3% of all the tests you run were failures. But talk to everybody about this notion of failure and what it means. And someone like yourself, how you process what most people would call failure. Yeah, it's funny because, you know, I do a fair amount of work with entrepreneur programs and I mentor entrepreneurs. And that question gets asked so often and they put it a different way. They go, how do I know when to give up?

How do you deal with failure? And it's always kind of been a strange question for me because I don't resonate with that. I don't really get it. And I've kind of realized, and this is not something that's corny, I don't think about failure as failure. And I've kind of only now realized in the last handful of years what's going on, is that I never fall in love with the idea. I always fall in love with the problem.

And when you fall in love with the problem, well, the problem never goes away. The problem never fails. The problem is always there. And then what happens is all these things, which were your ideas, when they fail, who cares? It was just an idea that I was trying. And I've learned something from that idea

that each of these failures is a jumping off point to more exploration. Even when something goes totally wrong, well, at least now I can cross those three things off the list and I've narrowed down the possible approaches I have, which actually might work. And for me, that, this is great. That's the fundamental reason that I'm so motivated and excited that I've gotten to spend my entire life as an entrepreneur. Not because it's worked out economically well for me, not because of any of the other things that go on,

it's because every day it's this adventure of I've got this thing I'm trying to solve and I get to come into work and I get to sit around the table with these smart people and try things. And wow, sometimes some of them really work. Most of the time they don't, but that's okay. That's what makes it fun.

And it's always been this positive spin. Mark, were you this way before you were successful? Like this was a philosophy you've carried most of your life. Oh, absolutely. You know, back, I started as an entrepreneur 40 years ago and back then, I mean, there were entrepreneurs, but no one called it that or no one talked about it. And there sure as hell weren't classes or business majors or shark tanks about it. You just were a person who was compulsively driven to see something which wasn't working and go, I've got to, there's got

to be a way to fix that. Go to the problem solving thing for a second. I'm just curious because if that's the thing you love doing, you know, I'm, I used to think there's a problem. What's the right and the wrong thing to do? And I don't feel that way anymore. Do you have a personal problem solving sort of philosophy that you would share with everybody? If that's so critical, if that's something you love doing, do you have a philosophy regarding that? Oh, of course I do. And it's one of the things that's taken me a long time

to learn. And I've learned that ideas don't count for shit. They don't. I hear so many pitches. I do a lot of angel investing. I work with entrepreneurs all over the world. They all want to pitch me their idea and they're fine and you're listening.

But the thing is no idea, zero ideas end up turning into the companies that they become. The successful companies all are this winding path of one thing leads to another almost never, in fact, never do things that are successful go lead directly from the idea they started with. And so what I've learned is that the key thing is you got to do it.

That the more time you spend thinking about it, the more time you're wasting. That you're trying to envision, can I see around the corner? Can I figure it out? And even worse, entrepreneurs get these things stuck in their heads and they're safe and they're warm and they can build them and they can make them into multinational corporations and they can imagine all the amazing things when everyone's using this app without spending the first moment figuring out how they're going to actually get the one person to use the app. And here's the trick, the one way is you just got to do it. You've got

to say, I'm just going to start and I'm going to start completely half-assed and I know I'm going to stumble. It's not going to work. But by taking that first step, I'm going to start and I'm going to start completely half assed and I know I'm going to stumble. It's not going to work, but by taking that first step, I'm going to start the process of learning what might work. And what I've learned, my process is to break down all pride, to break down all sense that this is going to happen and work well and just freaking do it. And what's taken me a while is to get more and more comfortable with how crappy it can be and still be a learning experience.

And I've come to learn that this, in my opinion, is the skill that separates the great entrepreneurs from the mediocre ones. It's not how good their ideas are, but how clever and creative they can be about figuring out ways to try their ideas quickly, simply and cheaply. I do not mean minimal viable product bull crap because that is still way too much effort. It's thought experiments, it's simple tests, it's ways of colliding your idea with reality as quickly as you can.

Like the classic story, and listen, I'm getting wound up here, so you've got to stop me if you need to. But the classic story is that when Reed Hastings and I were driving, commuting to work, and we were brainstorming ideas for what I could sell on the internet. And we had a bunch of them, which I can share with you if we have time, but we had this idea for let's maybe we could do video rental by mail. And then that was a bad idea. But a few months later, we heard about the DVD and all of a sudden, wow, this could unlock the old idea.

Now we did not go cool. Let's go to the office and write a business plan. We did not go amazing. Let's go put together a pitch deck. We said, let's figure out whether this is ridiculous or not. And we turned the car around in mid commute and drove back down to our town where we lived

and looked for us DVD, because it was a DVD business, and couldn't find one. So we said, let's just buy a used music CD. Wow. And we mailed that in a little pink gift envelope to Reed's house in Santa Cruz and found out less than 24 hours later that this idea actually might

work because the DVD, the CD got to read in less than 24 hours for the price of a stamp. But we found that out within 24 hours of having the idea. That is the kind of thinking that I look for in entrepreneurs. That's the kind of way that I pursue. You know, one of the things you said, unpack something and then ask you about this. That's one thing, there's all this entrepreneurs who's you gotta have a vision, you gotta have a vision, you gotta have a vision. And I think oftentimes I made this mistake

and I was like, I got so committed to my original vision that I was paralyzed and inflexible by it, rather than having the flexibility to evolve like what you've described here. It's a huge distinction for sure. And then the second thing I think I'd ask you is my threshold for looking like an ass is really, you know what I'm saying? I think that's one of the traits. Like I don't mind looking really stupid. And I think too many people, it's not just the low level messages. Don't worry about what people think about

you. That's low level. High level is can you enjoy looking like a fool? Right? And that's the, would you not agree with that? Because that's ultimately what's going to have to happen for you to take the risks to do all these tests, do this evolution that you've described. Of course, absolutely. And you know it's like one of my lifelong challenges has been learning foreign languages. And I've concluded the key is you've got to be willing to sound like you're an eight year old.

Because if you don't, if you're constantly just translating in your head, you never make that rapid connection. But startups are exactly the same way. You've got to make a fool of yourself. How many do you speak? I'm sorry? How many do you speak now? I speak four of them terribly. In other words, I don't want to be. I can tell you that. Yeah, I do. English is okay. But it's for me, it's more the challenge of learning something rather than is perfecting it because I get bored.

So there's this idea of being able to look like a fool that you talk so eloquently about. Then there's this other element that isn't discussed much. And I've heard you talk about it that I relate to, which is that, oftentimes trying to do something great, this is called being an entrepreneur, but could be wanting to be a great athlete, want to be a great mother, it can be lonely, you know?

And I wonder if you ever felt that way on your journey. I think there's millions of people, you know, that are gonna be listening to this in their car on the treadmill right now now and they're feeling connected and they're getting inspiration and value. And then when this is over, they're back to feeling pretty alone. And I think an acceptance that that's actually an indicator

you're on a good journey is something that you should all know. Do you agree with that? Did you ever feel alone and lonely as you were pursuing this? Because I think that's one of the emotional things you have to deal with as well. I completely agree. And it's something that doesn't get taught.

And it's something that isn't talked about. And it's such a shame because it is the reality of being an entrepreneur. I mean, people, when they see entrepreneurs portrayed in the media, you know, they're on Shark Tank and it's exciting or they're pitching or they're having the launch party when they watched a social network movie, whatever it is.

But it's not like that. A lot of it is this overwhelming responsibility. I mean, I remember early at Netflix, we were probably only a year in, and things were not going well. We had this idea that everyone said it will never work turned out to be right. And we were really struggling. And I remember standing in the stairwell, just looking out at the parking lot and thinking, I'm, I'm

responsible for all those car payments. I have to make this work. I have my friends and family have invested, I have to make this work. I have this dream of making this company, I have to make this work. And it's on your shoulders. And you think about it all the time. And it's a very, very natural thing. But it's one of the reasons why they consider a two-person founding team a more stable configuration. It doesn't mean you have to, but it certainly makes it easy. And one of the roles that I've kind of played over the last 15 years or so since I left Netflix was as a mentor, as a person that a CEO of a company could talk to who did not have an agenda.

I wasn't their board who was their boss. I wasn't their employees who they had to be careful what they communicated about. I was somebody who understood the problem well enough who they could talk to about it. And that's a really, really rare thing. And it's something a lot of founders, including myself, have struggled with. I see you being incredible at doing that. Even we're talking now, I feel some of that for myself and I'm grateful for it. And I think one thing entrepreneurs need to know, by the way, people need to know, even if you're going to lead a family, is one of the things that comes with that is you will probably carry what I call the emotional load

to a degree maybe even more than you estimate. There's an emotional load you're going to carry that you need to be equipped for and prepared for, for the moments like you had in the stairwell. You know, for the moments when you get back on that jet coming back from Dallas, for the moments when you know inventory runs out or your order gets shipped the wrong way. These are all part of the emotional load, regardless of your business model. When someone quits that you depend on, if you're in the sales business, when your top producers leave or a client account goes the other way, can you carry the emotional load?

And so I hope everybody senses that. You know, I think you all probably know a lot about Gunner. There was a lot of kind of anticipation about the show here today and I don't want to go down this direction so I just want to get this out of the way in the beginning. If you don't know Gunner trains some of the most successful business people that walk the earth, some of the most successful entertainers and athletes, anyone from JLo to the Kardashians to Sampras to NBA players. But I'm also in the right zip code in fairness. I'm in the right space for that.

I get people reach out at trainers I want right zip code in fairness. I'm in the right space for that. People reach out at trainers, I want to do what you do. I live in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho. I live in Scotland. Those are great, wonderful places, but the demographic of the potential clientele is just not there to do what I do. I've heard you say this before because you're a trainer, but you approach the business. I thought this was awesome because it's true of almost any business we would describe.

What business are you really in? So you're a trainer but you what business would you say you're in above all? I'm great at connecting people. I can't monetize it for shit. I wish there were a way to say let me introduce you. Oh you need a contractor? Well, oh, you're looking for a car? Your wife needs a new OBGYN? Oh, you want, I can connect to so many things that have nothing to, and you know, we all,

in our trade, we develop certain go-to lines, and I always say, I can't get you into any restaurants or clubs, but anything in health, wellness, medical, I got you. I know the top shoulder surgeon, I know the top shoulder surgeon, I know the top knee surgeon, I know the top nutritionist, the top dentist. Dentist, I got dentist, I got orthodontist,

and then I have just- That's amazing. Yeah, so, but it's being years where I am, and I can also call them on their cell and connect you like that, right? But I'll tell you, clubs, I don't even know what clubs are hot now, restaurants, I got a couple go-to restaurants but it's nothing that you'd

probably want to go to. And it makes me happy. Nothing makes me happier than someone, I had a call two weeks ago, yeah a couple weeks ago, somebody said I chipped my tooth, what can I do? And it was a Friday afternoon, I go standby. Yep, and they were in the chair within two hours getting the vignette and I thought, yeah, that's what I can do. Because you approach it like a, I've never heard this before. You approach it, this is such a lesson because a lot of trainers watch this, how do I grow my practice, right?

That goes both ways. If that dentist gets someone who's lying there going, you know, I feel so fat when I lie in this chair, it makes me really see my stomach. Well, I mean, the analogy I would use is a restaurant analogy, right? It's you pull in. You pull into the gym, you pull up to a restaurant. Is there a place to park? And I goof about parking, but in LA, parking is a very real thing.

Is that difficult? How much of a headache was that? Getting into the place, you walk in, is there someone who stops you, greets you, do they remember you, is there a rhythm and a flow to what you do when you get there, or is it a whole check in, who are you again? I mean, little things like that can slow the roll, and it's a lot less fun overall,

and the next time the person has to go to that, they go, ugh, I'm not going and then to me then your cancellation rates goes up even if you're charging for cancellations over time that goes away too you won't go back to the same restaurant if forget the food the food I take for granted if the whole experience that that preceded the meal was a pain in the ass well that's I had one of those last night, the food was great, the experience was crap. And the experience can be bad on either end.

Usually we tend to, selective amnesia, we tend to forget what happened in the middle if the food was good. But if you ask for the bill, it's 20 minutes. Puts you in a bad mood on the way out. If you get to Valet, 20 minutes, and Valet is a real thing in LA. Every restaurant is Valet, or a lot of them. Right, that kills the whole vibe.

Yeah, right, yeah. Or the waiter just disappears and you can't even ask, and you're like, we've been here 15 minutes. You were at my dinner last night. All of those things. No, but I think, as you're an entrepreneur, if you are one watching this, how conscious are you from the entire experience

the client has with you? Are you in the service from the minute they got there? Cold water, room temp. Some of my clients like cold, some like room temp. We have water and towels out for every person. That's a service. Well, I don't provide it. Well, you should.

And if you don't, we can't afford that. But raise your rates. If I ran a hotel, the mini bar would be free. Now the room would cost a lot more, but the mini bar would be free all the time. Yes, you're gonna get a couple of jerk-offs who empty the mini bar out as they leave, okay fine. But you're also gonna get people who don't touch it.

And you need to find that sweet spot in your price point to make that work for you, because nobody at the higher end of any service wants to be nickel-and-dime. I 100% believe that and I think you entrepreneurs listen this I don't care what you don't care if you have a bakery a dry cleaners Or you're a software engineer all of these things are so important as an entrepreneur See these are the things like and I mean this with respect You know this it's not just the zip code. Because for someone, they have to want to come back.

They have to want to keep coming back. It's their disposable income, watch this, it's their disposable income, their limited free time for something that is arguably painful. How are you making that, hey, want to come back? Right, right. You have to make it as fun or as positive as it can be. There should be so many, and in fact only, positive associations with their experience with you that when training comes up, when cold water comes up,

or room temp water, or your name comes up, there's a positive association that happens. That is the best PR machine you could ever create. You're saying earlier, we were talking, I hope you don't mind me saying this, but you're very well known that you don't have a publicist. And I think the reason you're so well known is what you just described.

When your name comes up, there's a positive association and your clients are raving fans about you. The man to my right, I chased down today because today's show is for me, everybody, and you guys get to listen in Because we're going to talk about Anti-aging we're going to talk about living longer. We're going to talk about living better and the man to my right is the foremost expert I think on the spinning earth today. Dr. Sinclair David. Thank you for me. Call me David. Thanks, Ed for having me here

Going forward it will be David if you were an entrepreneur knowing that this see if someone could have knocked on my door in 1985 and said hey The internet's coming Maybe you ought to start thinking about that as a businessman this things coming this waves coming Start to think strategically about businesses products services methods of delivery that could help there. I feel like what we're describing this this Longevity industry we'll call it that, is the next big wave. And if I were an entrepreneur listening to this, I'd be thinking, how do I prepare myself? What should I be thinking? What should I be looking at? So I know it's a difficult question, but what advice would you give to an entrepreneur who's hearing

these things from you and all the possibilities that come along with it? What should they be thinking or doing? Yeah, so the world has changed a lot in the last few years. I was the first young guy to start companies on longevity. And people are wondering, it's all on my website. I've started more than 15 companies. I've helped dozens and I've taken four public. Awesome.

I reinvest all that money, by the way, in startups and jobs and philanthropy. So I'm not trying to make money, I'm trying to leave the world. But if someone could have instructed me when I was young, what I would have said to them is identify a trend and if you don't have the money to invest, get involved in startups, but work with the best people.

Don't work with mediocre people, because the best, things are gonna get really hard when you start up a company. Things are gonna fail, you may be near bankruptcy, and you wanna be with people that you can trust. So I don't work with assholes anymore. I'm done with that. It's awesome.

Really, that's the first criterion. And my friends are all like family to me and vice versa. So that's actually one of the best bits about getting older is you have this group of people you can trust. But from the outset, I wish that I had always worked with the best of the best. So look for that.

If you have a little bit of money, you can invest in something like this. Some of these companies are just getting started. And the field is exploding. So I agree with you that longevity research is going to make the iPhone look like old news. I do too. And I love what you said about trends

and finding the best people. Those are two huge keys. If you're an entrepreneur thinking about this, you should be thinking about what are the trends? How does it impact the business you're in currently? Right, what are the changes going to be there? Okay, I have one last question for you because I'm just fascinated to know this.

Are you afraid to die? No. You're not? That's an easy question. In fact, this. Are you afraid to die? No. You're not? That's an easy question. In fact, I used to be afraid to die when I was in my 20s and 30s, because I wanted to see where things would go. And there's this natural fear in all of us.

But I now know that I'm not afraid, because I fly a lot, and a few times those planes were going down, and I had felt that I was gonna die. It was gonna be sad that I'd miss my family, my family would have to do without me. But personally I'm not worried about that. My wife is the opposite, she grabs onto my arm

and she's, I'm gonna die. I'm saying, if we die, we die. She's, I don't wanna die. And I'm just like, as long as it's not too painful, I'm good with it. So letting go of the fear of death was one of the best things I ever did in my life. Because now I can live without fear.

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guarantees. Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families. With Greenlight, you can send money to kids quickly, set up chores, automate allowance, and keep an eye on your kids' spending with real-time notifications. Kids learn to earn, save, and spend wisely. And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place. Try Greenlight risk free today at Greenlight.com slash pod. That was a great conversation. And if you want to hear the full interview, be sure to follow the Ed

Mylett show on Apple and Spotify. Links are in the show notes. You'll never miss an episode that way. If you want to get more customers, if you want to learn how to create the right content and how to get that content to people, I have the best dude on planet Earth sitting to my right here. So Billy Jean, thank you. Hey, thank you. Thank you very much for having me. It's long overdue. What we're going to do now, we're going to step in,

we're going to finish the story piece, but now you're going to step into what I know about this, man. We're going to step into his brilliance. He calls him superpowers. You have a lot of them. You distill it down to one, but I think one of them is your, and you won't acknowledge this, I think you have a high IQ. I think you critically think quickly, and I think you have an unbelievable, which all great visionary people do, to take very complicated things and make them sound very simple, which is why this is going to be so good, we're about to transfer into, but we need to know how you get there to step in because it almost became out of almost necessity that you end up in this space.

I worked at a call center, enrolling people into online colleges. It was a college called Ashford University, and my job was to make 600 calls a day enrolling people into the school. I'm not gonna get started on there, but that's where my passion for education really sparked because it was the opposite.

Before it was, what do these people at the University of San Diego know that the people in welfare don't know? But at that school, and I don't want to talk about anybody ever, but to me, they were calling people who never graduated college and they were saying, do you want your degree? They were getting them to fill out FAFSA forms to get money and then giving it to them. They would never finish and the company would still get paid but they were really taking advantage of uneducated people. And once I understood it, it just validated everything

I said in the beginning, the difference between welfare and educated, like it was just, I got really upset. But then I also learned things from there and I learned that like there's a 6,000 employees and I learned about online education at the time. And so I found this company that was selling online quit smoking programs to help people quit smoking. And I said, dude, if I can take your program

and put it into the online classroom format, then we can make billions of dollars. This is crazy. And so I called up a friend whose mom just made a bunch of money from inheritors of selling a house, and I knew that. So I said, hey man, let's get to this online education stuff. I pitched him, he gave me 30,000 bucks.

I made the stupidest mistake I've ever made in business. You guys should listen to this. This is why you never, people ask me what's the fastest way to build a business, find somebody who's already done that and ask them how to build a business. That's step one and always step one. Dude, I bought 30,000 bucks from my buddy. I spent 27,500 of those dollars

on the biggest mistake ever. Which was? It was on technology to actually host the online courses. And in my brain, I called one company and they said we can do it for X price, so I thought that's just what it was. So I took all of the money my friend let me borrow, gave it to there, didn't think about anything else,

and we lost it. And here's what I found out a year later. The platform that I paid for was actually free. Oh gosh. I paid them to customize it for us, but it was actually free. Oh my gosh. I could have, and then later I ended up

redoing the same thing, I ended up paying someone 500 bucks to do the same exact job except better. Gosh, that's crazy. I'm telling you, if you are an entrepreneur underneath the million dollar mark, there's only two things stopping you, ignorance and arrogance. I embodied both at the time.

This isn't so hard, I can just figure this out. And then ignorance killed me, and I cost myself everything. Long story short, through trying to sell this online course thing, I stumbled across this thing called Facebook ads. And that is where it all changed for me because I made money literally while I was sleeping.

And it changed my relationship with the thought of money, trading time for money, and I was like, this thing's gonna take over everything. I got obsessed with it. I started buying courses on it, because I wasn't gonna try and figure my stuff out, and I started practicing and practicing and practicing. And literally, for two years, I took on a couple clients,

I didn't make any real money. But you were willing to work for free for a while too, and that's a lesson entrepreneurs need to hear, right? So that's how I got all of my experiences. I started just telling people, hey, I can work for free. I went my own way with that smoking company. I was like, this is actually what I did. I'll give you guys a play by play if you're really hungry for clients or customers, and

you can apply this to any industry. I went to Monster, Craigslist, and Indeed, and I looked for people who were looking for marketing. I would make them a screen capture video, meaning there's a software that's called Camtasia. It's free, 30 days for a trial. And you can film your screen, plug in a microphone. So I would go to their website and say, hey, what's up, my name is Billy G.

And I know you don't know me, but I'm looking at your website and here's what you can fix to start making more money right now. If you'd like more advice, call me. Bro, I didn't sleep. I woke up every single day, I did the same process. Again, finally I got a call. And there was this Swedish lady,

this company called Kids in the House, big parenting company, probably still around doing the thing. And she calls and she says, hey, I love your video. We'd love to help you. Can I hire you to be a consultant? I said, what the fuck is consulting? I don't know what consulting is. This is crazy.

But like, I just needed money. I was like, whatever, sure, yes. I'm like, man, absolutely. Tell me what your consulting needs, blah, blah, blah. Long story short, she ends up paying me a thousand bucks to consult for her. I went up there, I showed him what I can do, and I realized it was validated.

I knew what I could do, and then I did that same process again and again and again and again. I started getting clients, and now I had an agency, on accident, not on purpose. And then finally, I took all of the winnings I was getting, because I was killing it for people and I recorded a short video and here's exactly what I did, I'll give you guys a tactical step by steps.

I went on Amazon, I got a green screen for like 40 bucks. I got a tripod which cost me like 20 bucks. I got a microphone cord, a lavalier mic which probably cost me $7 and I sat down at my parents' house and I said, there was a wetsuit company I was working at the time, I Lavalier mic, which probably cost me $7. And I sat down at my parents' house and I said, there was a wetsuit company I was working at the time, I said, hey everybody, I made a short video and I said, hey everybody, here's how I sold $150,000 worth of wetsuits using Facebook ads on a $6,000 budget. If you want to see how I did it, click here. And I brought them to this 10 minute video of me outlining exactly what I did and at the end of it I said, if you want to work with me

and you want me to do the same thing for your business, click the button below and schedule the time to talk with me. $10,000 the next day. Oh my goodness. So here we go everybody. Now. $10,000 the next day. I went from nothing, parents house,

my parents talking sh** like, are you ever gonna figure this thing out? You're really just playing video games? Everything you can imagine $10,000 next okay We're gonna talk entrepreneurship today. We're gonna talk business and the man to my left is impeccably qualified He's a CEO of Walmart e-commerce He's built and sold multiple different companies sold one of them to Amazon sold another one to Walmart

This man knows an awful lot about building businesses, starting businesses, scaling businesses, selling businesses, and so we're going to get a chance to talk about all that today. So Mark Laurie, thank you for being here. Thanks Ed, great to be here. I want to start out a little bit just to give them context because you haven't just done this once. You've had multiple successes. Just give them a little bit of your background because I don't think that was an adequate introduction about the businesses you've built and what you did with them. Yeah, so I started my career actually in banking.

So there wasn't really the startup scene back when I was in high school. I graduated high school in 1989. Me too. Oh, did you? Yeah. Okay, great. College in 93, yeah.

There wasn't really this startup scene. And so being from New York and the stock market and stuff was kind of a hot thing to think about as a kid. And I got into stocks at a young age. From 10 years old, I had a little book that I would look in the newspaper every day and write down the stock prices. Kellogg, here's what it was, it was up this,

and tracked them and read about stocks as a kid and started getting and reading books on derivatives when I was in like seventh grade eighth grade Wow But my whole childhood was filled with all these entrepreneurial things that I did Yeah, not realizing that that could be like a thing Yeah Could actually be an entrepreneur and start something. It never even occurred to me. Don't you also think though, like if you're a parent too listening to this,

cause I had that entrepreneur bug and I didn't know I was a kid too. We both had baseball card businesses and you and I both had lemonade stands and I had an auto detailing business. And I think if your kid shows that proclivity early, you should be feeding that because we all, we are in that world today.

So in your case though, it's fascinating to me. So you kind of have this entrepreneurial spirit, you go to college, first dude in your family really to do that, you do well, you're doing very well in the banking space. And then, but you've got this entrepreneurial bug sort of floating in you the whole time. And there's a lot of people listening to this

that wanna be entrepreneurs, but they're at a job right now. You know, they're winning where they're planted for now, but they've always wanted to have their own thing or start something and in your case What I love is you don't even know what the hell it was, right? So one day tell them you just basically walk into your boss and go hey, what did you say? Yeah, I just walked into my boss's office one day This was like that's almost seven years into my banking career

And I was executive vice president chief risk officer for this bank, making a ton of money. Never thought I'd make that much money, you know, just because, you know, it just wasn't a thing, you know, growing up, thinking that that was possible at that age. And, but I knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur, I knew I had to just go all in, and so I went in my boss's office and just said,

his name was Jerry Goldstein, and I said, Jerry, hey, I just want to tell you that I'm going to resign. And he goes, he laughed, he goes, come on, what do you mean? Nobody's going to pay you more than I'm paying you. And I said, no, I'm going to be an entrepreneur. I'm going to do a startup. And he's like, really, well, you must have a great idea.

I said, well, I don't really have the idea yet, but I need time to think about it, because I need to go all in and do it. Didn't people think you were crazy? He thought I was crazy, he really thought I was crazy. But I mean, to think about it, because I need to go all in and do it. Didn't people think you were crazy? He thought I was crazy. He really thought I was crazy. But I mean, even the people around you, like you're going to leave this really good job,

but you don't even know the idea. Yeah, everybody thought I was crazy. No capital either, right? Like not a lot of capital. No capital. Well, he thought I was so crazy. He said, you know what, put me down for your first,

I think it was 50 grand. No way. As an investor, 25 or 50. The guy you're resigning from goes, well, when you figure it out, I'll give you $50,000. And so I knew nobody. It wasn't like we had family, friends, and things that had money.

And I started with angel investors. It was that first bit of money. And then he basically introduced me to two people, said, hey, you should go talk to these two people. And then from that seed, I wound up talking to, I don't know maybe 200 angel investors and I got 60 investors to invest a total of five million bucks no venture I didn't know any VC I didn't know anything about the startup world I

didn't know what a cap table was you know it was like I knew nothing I just but I got 60 angel investors to give on average what's little bit 80 grand each and it was like 5 million bucks. And that was the thing I try to tell people all the time that you don't have to have everything buttoned up and know exactly what you're going to do. You kind of just go all in. And a great example of this was we started, you know, there's like a CPA chartered, you know, accountant and there's the CFA, Chartered Financial Analyst.

There was nothing for financial risk managers. You couldn't get certified. So I was talking to my boss and became a friend and I was like, why don't we just kind of create an exam for risk managers because it doesn't exist? And he was kind of like, yeah. You created an industry. Yeah, how do you create an exam?

And so we started talking to people. And basically, they're like, well, you can't just create a certification. Like, who are you? You're like 24 years old. You can't just start an exam. Who's going to credit it? And I said, no, no, we're just going

to start an association. Wow. And a not-for-profit association. And that association will credit it. And'll we'll kind of do the exam and so everyone's like you know that's crazy you can't do it so I said you know forget it I'm jumping in what we're gonna do is we're gonna set up a website we're gonna put up a date for the exam the first thing we do is a date we just picked a date like it's May you whatever, I don't remember the year, 1998.

Here's the date, it's New York City, actual date, and here's the outline of all the things that are gonna be on the exam. Send a check for 500 bucks, and you got your seat, and then that's it, and so we just put it up there, and all of a sudden we started getting checks. People started sending checks, and it was like, so we looked at each other like,

I think we need to write this exam now. Oh my gosh, there was no exam at the time. No, it was like so we looked each other like I think we need to write this exam now Oh my gosh, there was no exam at the time. No, it was just the date and the And the agenda for you know, the the topics. Yes, we started getting all these checks and we got 34 checks $17,000 and 34 people and so we decided so me and Lev Sat down and we spent weekend after weekend, nights and things, writing this entire exam on every topic. And we gave also recommended readings as well.

And then we went to New York City, we rented our place and we administered this exam to 34 people. And then we went home and corrected it. We decided where the pass fail was. We sent certificates to the people that passed. And now today it's still in like 50 countries around the world. There's like thousands of people taking this exam. You're a trip, man.

Like, like. No, but, but it's just a great, I'm just, I'm just saying that only because people think that when you start something, it has to be like buttoned up or you need to have a plan. You need to know your next step or whatever. And what I always say is, you know, just take the biggest step you can with your next move. And that's it, like toward your vision. You have the vision and just take the biggest step you can.

And for us, the biggest step we can take was, here's the date. Here's the- Common line of the entrepreneurs that have been on the show or my friends that are entrepreneurs is they're willing to step into spaces they're ill-prepared for. Here's the date. I believe that. Here's the. Common line of the entrepreneurs who have been on the show, or my friends that are entrepreneurs, is they're willing to step into spaces they're ill-prepared for.

And they go, when I get in there, I'll figure it out. And then when I get in there, I'll figure it out. When I get in there, I'll figure it out. And in your case, and then I wanna go to some clues, because success leaves clues. And what I wanna spend our time today on, are those clues? Are those the lessons you've learned?

But just for everybody to give some context, what made me attracted to having you on was the diversity of your success. So this is an exam for risk managers, right? Success in that space. You take diapers.com, sell it to Amazon. I think even in your own case, because it's your story, I think even in your own case,

you don't have quite the appreciation for how remarkable it is. So you take diapers.com, sell it to this little company called Amazon right and then you build jet.com you sell that to Walmart like you've had a really crazy career for a dude who literally walks out of a job one day that's really successful it doesn't even have the damn idea yet like Like it's remarkable. I am so excited to talk to this gentleman here today. He has the life I aspire to have and he's just a very fascinating man. He's an expert on leadership and he's proven it with his results in his life. He's great a

recognition culture also as well as what I would call it but he's the co-founder, former CEO of Yum, one of the best biggest brands in the world. He's a New York Times best-selling author, already one time over, and he's got a new book out right now called How Leaders Learn, Master the Habits of the World's Most Successful People, of which he is one of them. He also just put the group together to bought Valhalla Golf Club, and I'm gonna have him get me out there to play some golf. So anyway, David Novak, let's have a great conversation today. Thank you for being here. It's my honor Ed. I really love everything that you do and the fact you want to make a difference in the world. So I think

we're kindred spirits. Merge these two things together for me because you own this content because you've lived it. What's managed two up and two down mean? I know what it means but I want you to tell them after reading and self-awareness wrapped around it. Okay managed two up and two down mean? I know what it means but I want you to tell them after reading. And self-awareness wrapped around it. Okay. Managed two up and two down. I think if you're coming up in an organization, you obviously want to have a great relationship with your boss. Okay? And you know, so you need to know how they're thinking, what they're thinking, and you want them to know that you have their best interests at heart

and that you're trying to help them in the organization. But you gotta manage two up. You just can't focus on your boss. You gotta focus on your boss's boss, or go as high up as you possibly can. And that's when you gotta realize, when you get in with that person that's one level or two levels up or more, that's when you gotta realize when you get in with that person that's one level or two levels up

or more, that's when you gotta make the most of it because that's when you show people you've got potential. You're not just doing the job that you're in. When you get a chance to have that meeting or be with that person, you wanna go in and you wanna talk about the things that you would be doing if you were them or what the company could be working on that shows that you think about the business bigger. And so that person would be doing if you were them or what the company could be working on that shows

that you think about the business bigger. And so that person's gonna look at you when it's time to look when they have your review process, they're gonna say, oh boy, yeah, you know, that person has a heck of a lot of potential, okay? So it's, you know, it's two up, two down. You have to motivate the people that work for you. You really do.

The, your direct reports and you wanna, you want them to the people that work for you. You really do. The, your direct reports and you want to, you want them to feel a part of your team. There's a law and leadership, which I believe is no involvement, no commitment. So you definitely want to get people involved and make sure that you, they, everybody on your, every one of your direct reports knows that you need them, you value them and that you're looking for them to make you better. Cause you know that you need them, you value them, and that you're looking for them

to make you better, because you know that you need them, okay? The two down is going to the front line. Go as close as you possibly can to the customer where it really happens, and make sure that whatever you're thinking is really, really happening where it matters most, which is with the front line

who's making it happen for your customers and make sure that it really works. You need to validate your own assumptions and the thoughts that you may have. But I think that two up, two down is a great way to think about it. And if you really wanna grow in a company, you better show the people above your boss

that you got a heck of a lot of potential. What about their awareness level of themselves? To me, I connect with people who have a sense of themselves, their strengths and their weaknesses. Right. Couldn't agree more. You know, that's where I had what I call my three by five exercise, okay? And every year I do it myself and I put my, I do a three by five card and I write down, who am I today and what do I want to be tomorrow? So for example, believe it or not, when I was coming up,

I was really enthusiastic, really passionate. That's hard to believe. Yeah, I mean, but you know what? When you're you're 26 27 years old you're working around a lot of people because you're getting promoted faster than other people You got a temper that enthusiasm You got a temper that passion so that people will see you as more mature But you have to be aware of how people think of you, you know in my book taking people with you I write about you know be aware of how people think of you. You know, in my book, Taking People With You, I write about, you know, my leadership style.

And I'm a marketing person. That's how I came up. But in marketing, I always ask the question, what perception, habit, or belief do you need to change, build, or reinforce to grow your business or grow yourself? OK? So when it came to people and leading, I would always ask myself,

what perception, habit, belief do I have to change, build, or reinforce to take people with me? And they might say, like when I was at Pepsi, Wayne Calloway was the chairman of PepsiCo. I loved Wayne. I was with Paul Bearer at his funeral. We loved each other, okay? But he saw me as a marketing guy. I went to him one time and I said, you know, and I'd always go in with those four or five ideas to show him I have potential. And then he finally asked me faithfully, he said,

you know, David, what do you wanna do with your career? I said, well, I wanna be a division president. He said, well, you're a really good marketing guy. And I said, well, Wayne, I wanna be a division president. He says, you're a really good marketing guy. And I said, well, Wayne, I want to be a division president. He says, you're a really good marketing guy. I said, Wayne, I want to be a president. He says, I'll make you president of marketing. We could improve PepsiCo's marketing function.

But when I walked out of that room, I had the self-awareness. I had the self-awareness that I was going to have to demonstrate that I was more than just a marketing guy, that I wasn't just an airy, fairy, creative person. That I could make money, you know, work with the front line, get things done. And that's when the job came open to be the chief operating officer for the Pepsi Cola Company and I went in and I took on a new challenge and I definitely learned from this new challenge.

But it was like I said to my boss, I said, look, you know, Craig Weather, he, I said, if I don't do a good job in this job, you can fire me in six months, put me back in my, fire me, put me back in marketing, but you gotta give me a chance. I begged him for the opportunity and I got that job. And that's how I ended up being the president of KFC. That's awesome story.

That is an awesome story. And what I gotta say everybody is like, to some extent it's read the room. You know, I've watched my intensity over the years be a bit too much for people when I was younger. And I learned to temper that and soften it to some extent. Actually even poke fun at myself for having it, just like what you just did.

And it's an important quality of a great leader. I've been dying to ask you this question and it's not in the book, but it's got to do with leadership. So maybe the most read business book the last decade or so is Good to Great by Jim Collins. Have you read the book? You know what I'm talking about?

Okay, I'm interested, if you can be candid, philosophically whether you agree. And so everybody, let me just put it to you this way. Collins' premise is basically get the right people on the bus if you're a leader of a company, but that ironically most companies aren't led by great visionary, super charismatic, high energy people. That's an overall summary that's not fair

to what the book truly says, but I'm making a generality. And then I've always thought, yeah, that's true, but then I've looked at business. I'm like, well, that's Steve Jobs. That's not Sam Walton. That's not Elon Musk. That's not Mark Cuban. That's not Jack Welsh.

So I've watched some pretty charismatic, vision-stretching, dynamic people lead great movements in my career. And so I've always wanted to ask somebody who is an expert and has known these actual people, you know them, and you've seen companies of all different types succeed and fail. Where do you come down philosophically on that?

Well, I think that Jim Collins, if I recall in that book, talked about these leaders that he's talking about being level five leaders. They didn't necessarily have to have that charisma and all that kind of good stuff, okay? And I think it is possible to be an excellent CEO without having a ton of charisma. But I think having a little charisma

actually helps a hell of a lot. Now, here's what he's trying to get at, is that the leader that's got all this charisma and is a promoter, okay? Nailed it. I know where you're going with this. Then, you know, that leader, okay, that leader is not... You got to watch out for them. So that's why he talks in his book about the importance of being a clock builder, okay? And that's putting process and discipline around what really matters.

So I would say, hey, if I could have somebody in my company, lead my company, that had charisma, okay, that could fire up the troops, that could be inspirational, and had an appreciation for building the clock, process and discipline around what really matters. I'd take that person over a, let's say a level five boring leader that, you know, everybody really appreciates him for how smart they are. Now they both both can be very effective. But leadership has to flex.

You mentioned Elon Musk. I read his book, the book Walter Isis's autobiography or biography on Elon Musk. Have you read that yet, Ed? No. You've got to read it, OK? Because Elon Musk is a furniture breaker. I wouldn't do hardly anything that he does

because he's just damn tough on people, you know? But what he's tried to do and to be a true innovator, he had to break some furniture to get it done. And he worked his ass off and he's got his vision and he got people around him who ultimately will follow him. Now, he's not worried too much about taking people with you. You kind of find, you get on his highway or you get off of it, okay? Yeah, and that's rare, right? I look at it like, to be honest with you, by the way, I've recommended Colin's book as much

as any book I've ever recommended, but I've also looked at business and I think what he's warning against is these super high energy charismatic leaders lack humility sometimes, lack self-awareness, lack the ability to still learn. So to me, if you're a high energy super charismatic leader, you especially need to read David's book because it comes with the territory. When you're a big driver in high energy and visionary, you really better have the skills of learning, fostering this environment that he's describing, recognizing other people.

So to me, it's kind of the combination of both. I just love your answer about that too. What about process and discipline? Like, but you use it like in the book, like a golf comparison is the way that you do it in the book. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, yeah. You have to have'm talking about? Yeah. Yeah. You have to have a process and discipline around what really matters.

In every business and every team, there's things that really matter. And if you want to have great execution, you can't leave them to chance. You got to have process and discipline. So think about, let's just take Jason Day, for example, okay? A great golfer. You watch him on television, right? He closes his television, right? He closes his eyes.

He visualizes the shot. What's a good shot look like? He opens his eyes, he sees that shot. He goes in there and he does the same thing every single time because he knows that he's got visualization is the key to him really pulling off the shot. All these guys have great golf swings, but do they see the shot?

Yeah. And if you see the shot, you have a real good chance of hitting that shot. And I think in business, you know, you have to have process and discipline around what really matters. I mean, if you wanna make your customers happy, you gotta measure customer satisfaction in some kind of way

and hold people accountable for that. Majors a lot of times can be boring, but they're very important because measures show people what you really expect, as you well know. And but those measures should be around what really matters. You know, so many times people have a thousand measures. They're measuring everything. I remember when I went to pizza, you know, I couldn't believe the measurement book we had. And I said, people, you know, I think people can only remember what?

Three of the Ten Commandments. What makes you think you're going to remember 20 20 things here and all these things are not created equal So leaders have to be disciplined enough to figure out what really matters in their business and then put the build the clock around it So good. I just think in listening to you How cool this time in history is? that For free right now somebody is in your brain about this topic because that this space exists now 25-30 years ago there

be no access to you in a live conversation it's like I guess what it goes to is my gratitude for what we're doing right now every once in a while in these interviews I go this is crazy good this is crazy good and I want to acknowledge that with you I'm just so grateful for your your wisdom it's just it's just very special that we get to talk about this