THE ED MYLETT SHOW - The Gentle You: How to Reconnect With the Part of You You've Abandoned feat. Courtney Carver

Episode Date: July 1, 2025

 Are you addicted to “more” and missing your life? I brought Courtney Carver on not just for you, but for me too. Because if you’re like me—a climber, a high achiever—you probably feel that slowing down means you’re falling behind. But what if I told you that you’re not broken, and you don’t need “more” to be enough? In this conversation, Courtney and I get honest about what it really means to rest first, to stop chasing a finish line you can’t even define, and to start living here instead of waiting for “there.”  We talk about the moments when your body starts rejecting your pace, your aggression, and your addiction to constant movement. I share what it felt like to sit by the ocean yet never look at it because I was glued to my phone, and how leaving that phone inside during a cigar break changed everything for me. Courtney shares the small, practical shifts that allowed her to simplify her life without blowing it up—and why rest isn’t just sleep, but the small choices that allow you to reclaim your energy without guilt.  We also get into why so many of us—especially achievers—avoid slowing down, and how we attach our identity to “more.” Courtney’s take? You’re not broken, you just need to redefine what enough looks like for you. We also talk about the hidden cost of constant advice-giving and how letting go of regret can unlock the energy you’re leaking into the past so you can move forward with more clarity and peace. Why rest should come first—not last—and how this fuels better performance. How to take small, practical steps to simplify without losing your edge. Why your addiction to “more” might be stealing your peace and focus. How leaving your phone behind, even for an hour, can transform your presence. Letting go of regret so you can move forward without dragging the past with you.   Listen, I know you’re busy. I know you’ve got goals. I do too. But what if you could climb without burning out? What if you could actually enjoy the life you’re working so hard to build?Key Takeaways:It’s time to stop living for a “someday” that never comes. This conversation will help you create space to enjoy the life you’re fighting for. Share this with someone who needs it—and as always, MAX OUT.   👉 SUBSCRIBE TO ED'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL NOW 👈   → → → CONNECT WITH ED MYLETT ON SOCIAL MEDIA: ← ← ←  ➡️ INSTAGRAM   ➡️FACEBOOK   ➡️ LINKEDIN   ➡️ X   ➡️ WEBSITE      Get my exclusive Monday Motivation training in GrowthDay, the world’s #1 app for advanced mindset and personal development. Visit https://growthday.com/ed. This show is sponsored by GrowthDay.    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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All right, welcome back to the show everybody. So I booked today's guest kind of for me, but I know it's going to serve all of you as well. And it was interesting because her work really speaks to me and yet her following is predominantly women and we're going to change that today. Even though my following is actually probably 60-40 women, all of the ladies I think are really going to enjoy today's program. But man, I want you to lean in. I actually think her work is at least as much for us as it is for the other half,

but I think maybe even more. And she's an advocate. She's a best-selling author. She's a speaker. She's created the space called BeMoreWithLess.com and the Simplicity Space, but it's really about finding a more simple life and sort of a world where we're all climbing and scratching all the time to get to the next level. This will be a little bit of a different perspective for you and you climbers, you need this as well even if you're going to keep climbing. There should be some nuance and some balance to your life in my mind. She also got diagnosed with MS in 2006 and I think that was sort of a turning point.

So we're going to talk about that. She's got a book out right now called Gentle. I love the title. Rest more, stress less and live the life you actually want. Courtney Carver, welcome to the show. Good to have you. Hi, I'm happy to be here. So I'm happy to have you here. I picked you and there's a few reasons why I did. First off, the word gentle, let's just start there because all my dudes, if I'm not careful, are going to kind of roll their eyes really quick, right? So what does it mean to be gentle with yourself? What's that definition mean to you? Yeah, for me, it's really redefining how I take care of myself and continue to

climb. When you were just talking about climbers, like gentle is not about ditching your goals and forgetting about what you care about in life. It's actually a way for you to build a foundation from which you can climb more effectively and feel good along the way instead of going through all of these cycles of burnout. It's rest and recovery on a whole other level. I think I'm a great example of not doing that and what it can ultimately look like. I've you know I think relatively speaking climbed pretty high in my life in a few different areas but as I hit late 40s early 50s, I mean I started to break down physically. Like literally just break down my heart, my back, my jaw, some cancer stuff. I mean my body just

rejected the pace. It rejected the aggression all the time. It rejected no rest and not being gentle with myself and so there's got to be a way to this both ways. And that's why I wanted to have you on today. How do you connect with that part of you, the gentle you, how do you do that? What does it mean? And how do you find that piece of you? If you've been absent from him or her for 15, 20 years, tough question. Longer. I mean, for me, it was way longer.

And I think that we all have this part of us. You know, you might call it, I call it the gentle you, you might call it your heart that we ignore for so long because it's easier to stay busy doing the things that are thrown at you all day long. And you can convince yourself that it's a necessity to only do those things and not pay attention to what you actually need or want in your life. So this entire book is a series of practices that will help you connect to the gentle you. I mean, we just talked about breaking up with breaking news, you know, having big swaths of time that you're not being inundated with other people's thoughts and opinions is one step closer to understanding what you actually think and feel

and need in your life. And that's the only way you're going to start asking yourself questions and listening to the answers and then responding in a way that's good for you. Otherwise it's just like, I don't have time for that. Yes. Uh, I'm exhausted. You hear these messages all day long. Like, I'm so tired. This isn't working. I'm so sick of this.

I hate my boss, whatever it is. Like you hear those messages and then you just shove them down because it's too hard to make room for them. And so becoming the gentle you is making room to listen to yourself. That's really the biggest key and giving yourself that grace when you do here to actually listen and respond and not judge yourself for whatever comes up. I think if someone's listening to this, they go, okay, I got it. And uh And conceptually, philosophically,

for sure, I need to be doing more of this. But here's the deal. I got kids, they got little league, we got soccer, I got work, my spouse has work, we've got, we're involved in a church. I mean, we're buzzing around the planet pretty quickly. And so I picked out what you said, I need to break up with breaking news, you've take these meditation practices a out what you said, I need to break up with breaking news, you've take these meditation practices a couple times a day, I'm prioritizing my sleep, I'm trying to get some quiet time which we're going to talk about in a minute. What is another additional, like you said, hey here's a biggie, here's a holy grail of daily strategy you could implement into your life right now that'll be a catalyst at

least moving you in the right direction towards the gentle you what would be another one you would add well first I want to say that it it does feel like this big life shift and when I started simplifying my life pretty dramatically and making these changes I had a young daughter at home. I was working full time in advertising sales for magazines. I was doing all these social events. I was volunteering for my daughter's school. I too was just fully overwhelmed and thought this is not the time to have to make a change, but there was no other time. It had to be then for me and I knew that. And so I couldn't make these big sweeping stressful changes to... I didn't want to upset my family in our way of life. So I had to

make really small, tiny shifts until I had more space to make the bigger ones. So I think we have to start small. And for many people, especially high achievers, want it done overnight and they want to be the best at that change. And I think what I've learned through that process is the best way. It's the tiny steps. It is the kind of this gentle way. And so asking this question, like actually asking yourself, what is the gentlest thing I could do for myself in this moment? And then doing it. And it is always going to be something teeny and small, like get a drink of water, take a walk, stretch, stand up. If you ask that halfway through your workday when you are glued to your computer and you haven't moved an inch because you have to get all this stuff done, you will hear what

you need to do and then it only takes you five minutes to do it. And wow, it makes such a difference. Why in the world am I waiting to get a drink of water when it's right around the corner? But we do it to ourselves in so many different ways. So really pausing and asking yourself that question. Like what is the gentlest thing I could do for myself in this moment? Even if it feels silly and just see what comes up. What about, I'll give you one idea everybody, just because we're throwing things back and forth. This is going to seem so simple, but after reading

the book, I'm like, what could I do right now? And so you all know I like to smoke a cigar from time to time, probably too many and it's not probably good for me but I do and so here's a little thing I did and then you're like wow and because I one of the big philosophies of the book is small things not big things. That's one of the things you talk about in the book. I'm like what's a small thing I could do? So here's what it was when I walk outside to give myself that one or two hour little cigar time with myself, I do not bring my phone anymore. I leave it in the house. Man was that hard the first five or six times I did it. I literally thought I was dying. Like my connection to the world was gone. And then I realized something. I didn't have a connection to the world. I had a connection to my

phone which was disconnecting me from the real world. And so now when I'm on those cigar breaks, by and large it's an hour or two without that phone because you know what I was doing when I was on the cigar breaks? Probably like many of you, whatever you do, checking my phone literally the entire time. I live on the ocean and I've sat for a couple hours right next to that water and never looked at it because I was in my phone so deeply. Seems small, it's brought a lot more peace

and rest in my life and I feel like that's a way of being gentle with myself as a man that really serves me. When I coach people, a lot of the times when I coach them, Courtney, they come from, they've been to the therapist a few times already, right? And they're in this journey to fix themselves all the time. And most of the time when I start with them, and there's a few cases that are the exception, but I'll say, you know, what if you're not broken? What if there's like really nothing that screwed up about you?

And this journey to find it is like a journey to nowhere. What if it's that you just want to make some adjustments and change? What if your soul and your mind is speaking to you in a more efficient and mature way now? I grab your book and it says, you're right, you are not broken. I gotta ask you, what brought you to that belief system and what do you mean when you say it? Well, probably the same thing. Even if you are feeling really screwed up and like a lot of things are going wrong, we've kind of been conditioned to blame ourselves for that 100% to convince ourselves that we are broken. And I think a lot of people in our lives and in society have been telling us that because they've got the fix. And so if they can convince

us we're broken, they've got the solution, which as many of us have been through, we know that there is not this one size fits all solution. And so if we could step back and apply this lens of gentle starting with we're not broken, everybody is like figuring their way out in life. and what we need is some extra rest, some extra support, some assistance to do the things that we want to do in life instead of always just doing the things we think we're supposed to do. I mean, I think if anything, that's probably breaking us. I agree. It's a never-ending list. It just never ends, especially the busier you get and the higher you climb. There's more people that need your time, your attention and and I think we'll talk about guilt a little bit, particularly for women if they are resting.

What's cool about the book you guys is there's really in three parts, rest and then there's a section on less and then rise. I would not have enjoyed the book if it was just rest and less. I love the fact that that's still what you said about climbing, because there's a part of all of our souls that wants to expand, that wants to see who we're capable of becoming. And a lot of books about rest or calm never talk about that other side. And so it tunes out all the people are like, I'm not just going to lay around and rest the rest of my life, but I do understand the need for it. So let's talk about some of the things

you say in the book. The first thing you say in the book is, it's the first of 30, there's like 30 things in the books you guys, we'll cover a few today. Rest first. Most people have that backwards, I assume. Yes, and I definitely did for a long time. I've been resisting rest since I was five years old and had to take naps. And then I carried that into adulthood. And then I always thought I would rest when I was finished doing everything or when I was sick or when I had worked hard enough because we all live on this weird measuring system where we have to prove our worth by what we accomplish. And in that measuring system, it's just never enough. And so we never get to that when place of resting. And when I got sick back in 2006, I realized that I had to start there. I had to rest. I mean, I was too tired. I was too sick. I was

too scared and I needed to rest. And that was sort of the opening for me to realize that I had to rest before I was rising, before I was taking on new projects, before I was starting new things, even if I felt great. And that continues to serve me. So yes, I may spend less time in the day doing quote unquote productive things, but I feel like I'm actually accomplishing a lot more and feeling a lot better than ever before. You really do this by the way, like you really made these changes, okay.

Because- Yeah, it'd be hard to fake this book. Well, what I, what the reason I asked you that is I want people to know this is important and you can, you don't have to wait around like she did for an MS diagnosis. I mean, guys, like something's coming your way. If you don't make some of these changes, the way we live, particularly in the United States, actually compared to most of the rest of the world has become almost sick.

And I'm a part of a culture that has contributed to it to some extent. And you're going to see, you've seen over the last few years, my messages have morphed, by the way, it's also very easy when you're on the other side of success to go, Hey, don't work so hard. So I understand that. I want to ask you two things about the rest part. Number one, do you think that this pace you were at turned on your gene expression prematurely for the MS and it caused it or turned it on sooner? And secondly, what does that mean,

rest? Is it just like sleep or what does rest look like? Okay, so the first question is, What does rest look like? Okay. So the first question is, I don't believe that I am responsible for my MS, but I believe that I'm responsible to it. So I am responsible to take care of myself differently now that I know what I am working with. I do think that my crazy busy pace of life contributed to relapses, exacerbations, symptoms, but I really have no idea what was the ultimate cause. And at this point for me, it doesn't really matter because it could have been migraines, it could have been a heart attack,

it could have been just chronic fatigue, whatever. It could have been any of those things, but my thing was MS and I needed it to be that loud because all of the other little messages I was getting that this wasn't working, I was too busy to pay attention to them. I couldn't listen to my body because everything was too loud, I couldn't listen to my body because everything was too loud. I couldn't hear and it was way easier to keep that volume up instead of tuning in and really listening and paying attention because I knew once I heard the message, I would have to respond. So hey guys, I want to jump in here for a second and talk about change and growth. And you know, by the way, it's no secret how people get ahead in life or how they grow and also taking a look at the future. If you want to change your future you got to change the things you're doing. If you continue to do the same things you're probably going to produce the same results but if you

get into a new environment where you're learning new things and you're around other people that are growth oriented you're much more likely to do that yourself and that's why I love Growth Day. Write this down for a second growthday.com forward slash ed. My brendle bruschard has created the most incredible personal development and business app that I've ever seen in my life Everything from goal-setting software to personal accountability Journaling horses thousands of dollars worth of courses in there as well I create content in there on Mondays where I contribute as do a whole bunch of other influences like the Avengers of influencers and where I contribute as do a whole bunch of other influence like the Avengers of influencers and business minds in there. It's the Netflix for high achievers or

people that want to be high achievers. So go check it out. My friend Brennan's made it very affordable, very easy to get involved. Go to growthday.com forward slash ed. That's growthday.com forward slash ed. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp and I'm really glad that it is. I'm gonna tell you why. People ask me all the time, what do all the guests on your show have in common? And it's not all of them, but most of them, they've been to therapy or they're in therapy. And I've had athletes on, business people, thought leaders, musicians, actors, you name it, across the board. Most of the people I know that are happy and

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slash EdShow. So hey guys, you may notice I've been standing a lot more during the podcast and one of the reasons that I'm doing that, thank God, is uplift desks. I've got one right here with me right now. You know, your daily work routine can I'm standing a lot more during the podcast and one of the reasons that I'm doing that, thank God, is uplift desks. I've got one right here with me right now. You know, your daily work routine can really make you fatigued and that's because you're sitting the whole time. With an uplift desk, you can stand more often. Also, you're going to bring better energy to the work you have when you're standing rather than sitting all the time. And I didn't realize how much sitting all day was hurting my back and just dragging my energy down dragging me down physically and mentally So great work starts with a great workplace your workday does not have to make you feel all worn out

Just go to uplift desk com slash ed and use our code ed to get your free accessories Free same-day shipping free returns and an industry-leading 15 year warranty that covers your entire desk plus an extra discount off your entire order. That's Upliftdesk.com. That's U-P-L-I-F-T-D-E-S-K.com slash ed. For this exclusive offer, it's only available through our link. And what does rest look like? Is it just sleep or are there strategies throughout your day that contribute to your rest? Yeah, so rest, what I've learned, especially through writing this book and talking to people about how they rest, is it's really different for everyone.

I think first and foremost, a great night of sleep is really important in figuring out that element and then figuring out what feels restful to you. So for me, I meditate a couple times a day for 20 minutes. That's very restful and gives me a lot of energy at the same time. So I don't necessarily take a nap every single day. If I take a walk without my phone and without any distractions and I'm just noticing what's around me, that is super restful. If I sit out in my backyard and read a book, that's restful. And so identifying those things not as rewards for getting all my work done, but as self-care and real necessity, I weave those into my day every day.

I'll throw a couple back at you just for the audience's benefit. This is going to sound odd, but one of the things I do that contributes to my rest, you guys, is stretch. In addition to the things you said, like just giving myself 20 and 30 minute breaks throughout the day to stretch. I've had a huge, huge turnaround in my life, physically and mentally, the last six months because of many of the things you talk about. Sleep, my HRV was way too low. There's things that are measurables and so I've just gone to work on it. You know, I've done some, I bought some devices that contribute to your parasympathetic state before sleep. I've got a, one of these people sponsored the show.

I'll just tell the audience. I have a HapBee pad that I put under my pillow that kind of puts a frequency that helps me sleep more deeply. I have made sleep flexibility and stretching a massive part of my self-care. And you've said something twice that seems like a novel concept but you said take care of myself. Just that sentence alone, that's why I want the men to listen. Men don't ever think about this and I don't think very many women do. I think about my wife or my mom, they're always caring for everybody else. Same with most of my male friends, like I'll get around to it after I'm financially independent, after I've worked out, after the kids are out of the house, after I retire, you may not make it there. And if you do, you may make it in a very broken down

fashion, incapable of enjoying those years that you want to enjoy. So anyway, I wanted to add that because I think you're so right. Sleep is huge. I've worked with so many women who have retired and arrived at this place that we'd like to call there, like when I get there, thinking that that just like you were describing is the time where everything kind of falls into place. And 0% of them have felt like they've actually gotten there, then they're trying to get somewhere else. And so if you're waiting for that magical there, just know all we get is here. This is it right now. So if we're not going to put ourselves first, if we're not going to take care of ourselves now, we're never going to do it. It just has to be,

now you have to prioritize yourself. I can't say that enough about that. I do that. I put myself first without apology, without explanation and it has only strengthened my best relationships. Marshall S. Lindenberg That's so good. By the way, all we have is here. That's a factoid for sure. Now, let me ask you about women specifically and you can add to what I just said too, but I want to ask you about this on women and I want the men to listen because I also think we have an obligation to some extent for the person we care for most in the world to make sure they're getting their rest. We have to take care of ourselves, but we also have a partner, a boyfriend, a girlfriend, a husband or a wife, a significant other,

and their rest matters. Why is it by and large, and I believe this to be true when you write about it, that women actually have a feeling of guilt when they're resting? Not all, but as a kind of a generality that most people are nodding right now agreeing with, most women feel a sense of guilt when they're resting. I know my mom sure did. She was on the move literally until she went to sleep every single night. What is that and what would you say to them? I would say that we are probably wired differently, of course, to hold that guilt and because we generally, I mean not in every situation,

but I would say in most cases, we are the ones who are worrying about every single thing that goes on in our lives and our family's lives. We want to make sure that everyone is safe. Everyone is OK, that they're taken care of, that the things that go on in our house and our work, we're thinking about it, I would say, way more than men do. And we are taking care of a lot of things that men don't have to think about for themselves. And whether that is something as crystal clear as like your partner is always making the meals for you, or doing the lion's share of the household lifting, whatever it might be. And it might, again, I'm making these sweeping generalizations here, but I think there's a reason that we have seen this over and over again. The men seem to have an easier time not worrying as much about the kids, about the future, about anything that the woman is thinking about. And I think a lot of that is because they know she's thinking about it. So

why does he have to stay up and wait for the kids to get home when she's got it? Like she's taking control of this situation. And so for better or worse, I do think that's a recurring theme and why it's even more important for yes, women to start to think about putting themselves first and redefining the skill that they have, but also for men to see that and understand that perhaps the reason it's not a burden for them is because she is taking it all on. I can say one thing on the male side too, for most men there's an obsession with providing and never feeling like you're protecting your family enough. That's a debilitating

thought that men suffer with most men. Like I'm not living up to my providing, my protecting. What does count your spoons mean? I know, but I want them to know. This is so good, you guys. This is so good. Yeah. So this is a theory by a woman who was trying to explain what chronic

illness is like to a friend. And she was trying to point out that we don't all have the same amount of energy as each other, even as ourselves today or tomorrow. And so she was explaining that she measures her energy just like a lot of us measure time and money. She measures her energy as spoons. And so this is not a mathematically or scientifically sound assessment, but you can do this for yourself, especially if you'd like to visualize things. Like let's say you have 10 spoons for the day and making breakfast for your family and getting your

kids out the door to school is two spoons. And then you have eight spoons left if I started with 10. So eight spoons left and how are you going to apply that throughout your day? But instead what we do is we just say, I am going to expend all the energy I have until I'm left with nothing at the end of the day. So I'm just going to give my all all day long and then I have nothing left and that doesn't work. Then we have literally nothing left for ourselves.

So by measuring and thinking about, okay, if I have these 10 spoons, here's how I'm going to spend them. Okay, these five extra things on my to-do list are clearly not going to happen today if I want to end the day feeling well. You know, you guys, I'm just thinking as you're talking, there's different ways this manifests itself too. Like for some of you, it's like, I'll just expend all my energy at the end of the day. And then,

you know, hopefully I'll rest at the end. And then you never do. You just crash at the end. and then some of you are like, I'll just empty the tank all week long and then somehow miraculously for a few hours on Sunday, I'll rest and like these things never come and one of the things that you have in the book that I love, it's actually in the very beginning of the book is little Saturday. And just guys lean in on this a little bit right here. Okay. I think this is profound. I love stuff. I love strategy and tactics and stuff you can remember. You can remember a little Saturday. So go ahead with this Courtney. It's so good.

Yeah. So this whole chapter is about creating restful rituals in your life that work for you. And I too like a little something like this. It makes it approachable and something you can experiment with instead of thinking like, I have to change my entire life. So little Saturdays, it's based on this Nordic tradition of having like a little break during the week. So Wednesday evenings typically would be your little Saturday.

And it's kind of like just changing it up, having almost like this tiny weekend midweek. So good. And for some people it might mean, you know, going out with friends and doing something fun. For people like me, it means ordering in sushi instead of cooking and going for a walk around the block. So it can be as exciting or as boring as you like, whatever works for you. But it's just a reminder that while we're pushing through to get to the weekend where we think then we're going to relax and enjoy ourselves, typically all we're doing on the weekend is like either catching up from the week that's just passed or trying to get ahead for the week that's coming. And so it's just like this imaginary time that nothing really happens.

It's a hundred percent true. I know. Think about the last 40 years or so. It's like, I'm waiting on the weekend and then like Saturday, I'm kind of ruminating the week before Sunday. Now I got anxiety about Monday and I'm planning it and like, when did this supposed break take place? And by the way, everybody, you're supposed to climb in your life. There's supposed to be difficulties. planning it and like, when did this supposed break take place?

And by the way, everybody, you're supposed to climb in your life. There's supposed to be difficulties. You're going to have days you're tired, but like life shouldn't be about working for the weekend for six hours that may or may not arrive. Right. Or waiting until your vacation when you're going to be checking your email nonstop anyway anyway so that you don't fall too far behind from your break and then like that we're just not giving ourselves enough time to recover mentally physically anything this show is sponsored by green light do you know what surprised me when we do shows is how well the financial podcasts do and I think one of the reasons is is

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so you still need to get the book because we're only going to cover a few of them. Break up with breaking news. Wow. Yes. Yeah. This is a wow wow in our culture right now. A wow wow. So go ahead. Yeah, talk about what's broken. It is breaking news for sure.

Like it's all breaking news and it's happening to us all the time. We're just getting punched in the face all day long on social media. Wherever you are, it's just seeping in, even if you're trying to avoid it. And so I think we have to really get serious about setting boundaries about how we take the news in. I personally want to be informed, but not to the point where I can't take any action about what I care about. And there's no way you can take action after exposing yourself to a day full of news, let alone a week full. And so I do things like, you know, no news first thing in the morning, no news really close to bedtime, and then nothing in between. No, I'm kidding. That would be so great. So I try also not to watch like see any video if possible, because my imagination is vivid enough. I really don't need to see it.

So I want to read it. I want to read it from sources that I trust and then decide what do I want to do about this? How am I going to take action? Even though it's going to be small, it's not probably going to be world changing, but we don't all have to be world changers to make a difference.

But if we're all contributing in a small way, it, there's going to be momentum. I have to say something about this. Everybody. This has become so acceptable. In fact, it's almost, um, if you don't have an opinion on every single thing that went on in the news today, like there's something wrong with you. You don't have a backbone. You're not standing for

something, like you got... how ridiculous, like you're gonna go your entire life and 75 or 80% of your thoughts or what's going on inside your phone or your TV about people you'll never meet, it's and things you have no control over and I'm actually really gonna get aggressive about this point in my work here soon. 20 years ago, every conversation on the planet, just so you guys remember or weren't around then, wasn't about what the president did that day or didn't do. It wasn't. We didn't talk about it every single day of our lives.

And everywhere I go, people are mad on one side or the other. I mean, mad, wound up, stressed. And I just think, is this because you want to escape from your own life or is your own life not so good because you spend so much time in the lives of these people like it's one big reality tv show and that's again I'm very clear like what you said I want to be informed I want to stand up and have opinions about things that really matter to me that I can have influence over, but not 24-7. In fact, not even 8-7 and I don't watch it and I've found, you know what I like lately? A lot of people are like, hey, did you hear what Trump said today?

No, I didn't because he's gonna say something else tomorrow and when he's not president anymore, whoever's in there next, she's gonna say something or he's gonna say something and I just don't want to know what they're saying all day long all the time. How insane. I wonder what my kids are saying. I want to know what my family is saying. I want to be present with them. I want to be here, not there like you said earlier, in my phone, in Washington DC. It's just it's it's nonsense to me. That doesn't mean you shouldn't know what's going on, but it's a strange way to live that we've all accepted as normal now. Yeah. And I do understand that there is some amount of privilege that comes with being

able to not be upset about it, not think about it, put it on the back burner. There are concerning things that are happening for different people all the time, no matter honestly who's in office or what's going on, but back to this idea of being able to do something that you care about, like one little thing. And maybe if you can't do anything within the political realm, because, I mean, whoever knows what information we're getting is right or wrong or real or not real. Like, can you do something for your next door neighbor or at the local school board or for your kids that night or for, you know, I just think there's something we can do that is healthier and more helpful for all people versus just get so ruined by the daily news and how it's presented

and when it's presented. We should be able to take it in on our own time. I agree. We're a little bit down on a road that's a tangent, but I just have to say something to you about how much I agree with that and add something. You know, I just asked myself, I want to know things and I need to take stands and I need to be informed. I want to be smart. Same time is you have to ask yourself, is this contributing to my higher vibrational frequency or a lower one? Is this contributing to me being closer to the Holy Spirit or God or further away? Is this contributing to my peace or my stress?

And then just ask yourself the dosage you should be taking and the one other thing I resent about the news is it's not that these things aren't important. You know what I resent about it? I resent that they tell me this one's the one I really should be mad at. So you're supposed to be really upset and you should be about what's going on in certain parts of the world, but like the Sudan, it's been going bad. There's been a genocide there for 20 years. The news never tells you to get focused on that one. So not only do they tell you what to believe, they tell you which one's really important and I resent that because they've taken a piece of the world at the absence of the rest of the world and there's people

suffering all over the place. That's why reading better than video to your point. Alright that was my soapbox just for a second. Here we go to the stuff you guys it is. This is the hard ones right here where we're gonna go which is this obsession with more. And it is the hardest thing to reconcile in your life. I believe this is the hardest thing, at least for me, as an achiever, as a climber to and at any stage to surrender. The addiction to more like who am I going to be if I don't have more? Who am I going to be if I don't have more? Who am I going to be if I don't achieve more? Will I lose my value, my worth, will I go broke if I, you know, will I never get

momentum back again in my life? And so we are all listening to this right now, the vast majority of us addicted to some way shape or form more, as if it's better. And I, I think the root of your work that most deeply affects me is, is this right here. And I'm working through this right now myself at my age, the more thing. Can you just like overall your view on that, how it's changed, what your work is in that way? I think this is big. Well, I think for most of us, it's that we never, we're never able to define what enough is for us, whether that be, you know, money, accolades, achievements, whatever, social connections, we can't tell. And so we think more is better. we can't tell and so we think more is better. And I used to think too, the solution to all of my problems was more. I mean, I was deep in debt for a really long time, crushing debt. And my solution

was I have to make more. I have to work harder and make more and pay this debt off. And also, I'm working so hard now that I deserve more. I deserve nice things. I deserve big vacations and it was always conflicting with paying off that debt. And same for any possible problem that I had. Like if I didn't have enough time or energy, like I had to figure out how to have more. There was never this thought that I could pull back. And so after my MS diagnosis, when I was in this time of feeling terrible, really scared, I wasn't all of a sudden like, oh, I should simplify my life. Like I definitely wasn't that enlightened. I just knew from my research that I had to start eliminating stress from my life. And one of the biggest stressors were these collection calls

that I was getting all the time from people who I owed money to. And so I knew that would be one of the first things that I worked on is becoming debt-free. And as we did that, we weren't spending and bringing things into the house. And that's when I had a chance to really look at my stuff. And my stuff was just this reminder of my debt and my discontent. I always needed something else to feel happier or successful or powerful or whatever I needed to feel at any given moment. God forbid, I just feel my feelings for a minute. I had to shut that down. That was too much. And speaking of tiny steps, it took me three years to pay off my debt and years to simplify and change my career and do all of these different things. But what I realized is that the solutions I was seeking

didn't lie in more, it was in less. I needed less of pretty much everything, which ironically then leads to more of the best things. Like just even the idea of being present for an entire conversation, that wouldn't have happened for me before because I was so consumed with how am I going to fix this? How am I going to do this? Where am I going to get this extra money, time, energy? And I think we're all asking a lot of those same questions in debt or not. Like it never feels like it's going to be enough. And so getting real about

that and looking at the facts and deciding how you want to live your life. I mean, you're not going to be living the same way that you are today as you are in 20 years. So can we make adjustments for that and think about that? And maybe what are we willing to compromise for all this more more more? So interesting because I'm um next week I'm going to record two podcasts um sort of down this topic a little bit and uh first off I wonder if the reason we're addicted to more is we've attached our identity to these other things because we just don't feel worthy ourselves just being and And that's worth evaluating everybody. Is like, is your value attached to your bank account, your house, your

stuff, your achievement, your to-do list? I have a very good friend whom I love very much. She went through a season where she had a very peaceful life and I'm watching her again and she's, she has no idea how much she attaches her worth to what other people think and whether she's smart or her idea is the best and, and the work she's doing. And I've watched her whole personality kind of wind up more intense and more tight again. And, uh, she's, she doesn't even know she's doing it to herself again. And then last week, I'm going to do a podcast on this. I cleaned out my closet because we live in two

places. So I had to take some clothes. I cleaned my closet out. The biggest surprise was all these things that didn't serve me anymore that I was holding on to, that I was just accumulating. But the bigger surprise about it, I'm going to talk about on the show, was how much it actually opened up space for other new things. And the busyness and clutter of more and more and more actually sort of suppresses the good more because it's just more and more stuff you don't need that's no value and so I saw that in my own life and that's why your work I'm like gosh someone finally wrote about this stuff I'm so grateful for that. All right let's be real if your gut is off

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This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease or condition. These statements and information are not a substitute for or alternative to seeking care from your health care providers. Let me ask you about a couple more things but one of them is like the idea of slower. You talk about fast and furious is out. Probably the thing I have the hardest time with is I talk fast, I eat fast, I drive fast, I work fast. There's a pace. If you saw my golf swing when I was golfing, I swing the golf club fast, right? Like I'm just a we go to dinner, I'm the first one to order and the first one done eating. And like half

the time, like I don't even know if I enjoyed this meal much, you know, I'm in such a hurry all the time, but there's a lot of people listening to me right now. Like that's me. That's me. It's fast. Faster is better. Faster is better. Yeah. What's the hurry? What is the hurry? Actually, it's all connected to this self-worth. It's like, okay, I'll share a story that I think will really exemplify what I'm trying to say here. I was at a book event and I was talking about my diagnosis with MS and how I slowed down, how I started doing less, owning less, caring less about what other people think, all the less things. And a woman who had attended said, I also have MS and I feel like I have to do everything so

much faster so that when I'm really sick, I'll have gotten everything done. And my response to her was, I feel the complete opposite. I know that if I rush and try to get it all done, getting sick is inevitable. And now that I've slowed my pace and I'm prioritizing my own health and wellness and the way that I do things and honoring my own time and energy availability, I don't think it's inevitable that I get sick. I mean, yes, I work with a neurologist. I take traditional MS treatments, but I haven't had a relapse or any progress on brain scans since 2008. Hmm.

So. Thank God. that's wonderful. I feel like this low stress, low drama, no hurry is working for me. And yeah, I know there is going to be and have been emergencies in my life that I have to respond to. And I do have to hurry, and I, but I also have to say to myself,, how I respond on a day-to-day basis is going to be how I respond in a crisis. Even firefighters probably fare better when they have some sense of calm running into a burning building. I don't know if that's a great example, but we have to think about that.

Like it's when we're in that state of frenzy, we're not reacting with sound logic oftentimes, because we get so caught up in the drama, we're just like, but if we could, I think, move slower and really think about what it is that we're after, like with all this more, what is the goal here? What is the goal of more? Where do you think you're going to end up that's going to be so great by sacrificing the next 10 years of your life to get it? My dad, before he died, used to go, I love you and I'm so proud of you, but I would love

for you to be able to explain to me why you're in such a hurry to get to a place that you can't even explain to me. Why are you in such a hurry all the time to get somewhere and you can't even explain to me where it is? And every time I would explain to him where it was, is I got closer to that place, I'd move the finish line further out again.

I kept moving the goalpost and it's a silly game. It's silly. And so what I want to do is finish things with kind of context. There's a lot of things I wanted to ask you that because just the conversation so profound, we didn't get the time and I jumped in a lot, but there's two things you said in there that, you know, there's this guys, there's the, there's less rest rise, right? Or rest, less rise, the three stages. I want you to remember that, you know, there's this guys, there's the, there's less rest rise, right? Or rest less rise, the three stages. I want you to remember that,

but there's two things that stood out to me in the, in the less part of the book. And that was, and I'll let you kind of package them together, even though they're separate in the book, which is less advice and less regret. And these, they're separate things, but they contribute to what I would call like more all the time. So less advice and obviously less regret. Just run with that to finish things and anything else you want to add to it. And such a great conversation. Sure. I think that we all want to be so helpful with each other that we're offering unhelpful advice. Even if it's helpful, if someone's not ready to receive it, it is unhelpful. And I think being there for people and listening is so much more important than trying to fix

them. They can tune in to a podcast or read a book or ask for help. We can all do that when we want assistance, but we all know these people and have been these people where we're like, I think this would be better for you. And if we could refrain from that, I think it would be really good for our relationships. One thing that really stood out for me is author Anne Lamont says that help is the sunny side of control. And so I just started asking myself before I would offer advice, like, am I helping or

am I trying to control the situation to ease my mind. And oftentimes that's what it was. And so now, if I'm going to offer advice, people have to subscribe to it by joining my newsletter or reading the book. And then otherwise, like especially with my daughter, she's 29. And wow, I just want her to have the most amazing life. And I want to tell her everything I know all the time. But I also want to have a great relationship with her. And those two things don't live together. And so if there's something that I feel the need to tell her, I'll say, hey, is it okay if I offer you some advice about this?

And if she says no, thanks, the subject is closed. I'm not going to push it. And it's not easy, but it really makes a big difference. So giving less advice and also being able to say to someone, I want to share this with you, but I don't want your advice. I just need somebody to talk to and listen. Wow. If we communicate like that, we won't be so frustrated that people are always trying to fix us. By the way, before you tell me I regret, I wish I would have done this podcast two days ago. My son communicate like that, we won't be so frustrated that people are always trying to fix us. By the way, before you talk about regret, I wish I would have done this podcast two days ago. My son was home and I started to give him a bunch of advice and throw up all over him. I could tell immediately from his body language, he did not want his dad's advice, not at that time.

And so if anything, I pushed him away from me a little bit. I didn't bring him closer. So I blew that. Yeah, you're right. Again. And what about- I mean, I will always sneak in like, are you taking your vitamin D? But that's it.

Then I- I don't like that. There's no offense to that. What on the regret thing? Just tell them about this. So good. Yeah, I just always, I think the saddest emails and conversations I have with people who are trying to change is

when they're coming from this place of just regret. They're just lost in regret of the choices that they've made in their lives and how things have turned out and what they did or didn't do. And it really holds us back and doesn't give us that space to trust ourselves to change because we're living in that past like, oh, I wish this had gone differently. It's something that you can't change anymore. It has happened. And so here's where the gentle you can come in and say, yes, that happened. I did my best at the time potentially. If not, either way, I can do better today. I can move on in a more positive, grateful direction. Because the regret, let's say you regret 10% of what's happened in your life, you're depriving yourself of that other 90% that you really did a great job and can really contribute to you making

the positive changes you want to make now. But if you are stuck in that guilt slash regret, it's really hard to move forward. So permission to let it go. Very good. This was great today, by the way. I really enjoyed our conversation. I did too. Your voice has a way of being gentle as well. So I'm very grateful for today. You guys, the book, Courtney's book is called Gentle. They're easy to remember. And it's not just a book, it's a lifeline and I love that tagline by the way and the other thing is this, you guys can go

to BeMoreWithLess.com and check out her work there, the Simplicity Space, but I really recommend you go get the book. This will help you. You need it, my friend and that's why I had her on here today. Trying to help you in your life, that's all. If it helped you, share the episode. Courtney, thank you for being here today very much. My pleasure, thank you. Great conversation everybody. God bless you all. Max out. This is The Ed Myron Show.