THE ED MYLETT SHOW - The Power of Self-Control w/ Ryan Holiday

Episode Date: October 11, 2022

Are you ready for a history lesson that has more meaning than ever today?This week you’ll learn about a PHILOSOPHY that originated more than 2000 years ago and flourished during the Roman and Greek empires.  I’ve invited RYAN HOLIDAY for a fascinating discussion about STOICISM.  He is one of the foremost experts on this way of thinking that teaches ETHICS, VIRTUE, SELF-CONTROL, and FORTITUDE as a way of overcoming destructive emotions.What you’re about to hear will blow your mind and open you up to IDEAS you’ve never heard before. Ryan has been studying stoicism all his adult life. He is going to give you straight answers to the questions…Why is it that nobody has more pain than the LAZY?What makes COURAGE, SELF-DISCIPLINE, JUSTICE, and WISDOM so important to stoicism?What makes AMBITION a double-edged sword and PERFECTIONISM a vice?Stoicism is also predicated on finding an optimal relationship with DISCOMFORT.  Ryan will help you FRAME YOUR THINKING to succeed the best way possible by taking on tough challenges.  Part of that also relates to how you structure your MORNING ROUTINES which are critical to how successful the rest of your day is.We’re also going to get into an extended discussion of DISCIPLINE VS. TEMPTATION.  If you want to get anywhere in life, you’ve got to cultivate discipline.  Part of that also involves how you deal with losing control over your EMOTIONS and why SILENCE is often an essential form of STRENGTH.Although STOICISM dates back more than two millennia, the ideas are timeless, and I think the principles Ryan espouses may be a perfect way forward in a world that feels like it has frequently lost its way.Open your mind, listen, and I think at the end of the hour, you’ll agree… 

This is The Edm Mylich Show. Welcome back to the show, everybody. I wanted this guy on a long time because his work is so unique and we have a bunch of usual friends who keep telling me how incredible he is. I expect him to prove that to all of us today on the show. He is a prolific author and I call him one of the great thought leaders of our time. I really mean that. I, uh, when I start listening to his work, I find myself listening to the end. And that says something. He's got a new book out called Discipline is Destiny, the power of self control, but he's written a bunch of different New York Times bestsellers.

We're going to have an amazing conversation today about you with him. Ryan Holiday, welcome to the show. Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah, it's great to have you. Yeah, yeah, fine. We get this thing done. What is stoicism in general? Just explain it to us and why is it relevant today? Ancient philosophy goes back to Greece and Rome. I think the problem is people think they know what it is, right? They hear the word stoic. Yes. And they think they know what stoicism is. Stoic the word means like no emotion, you know, a robot, you stuff it down, you don't feel pain.

Stoicism, the philosophy is popular with Marcus Reales, the Emperor of Rome, Cato, one of the great senators of Rome, Epictetus, a slave. It's a philosophy for doers in a world that is chaotic and unfair and unpredictable. And they're trying to get the best out of themselves and the world around them. But I see it as a philosophy that's trying to help you become what you're meant to become and do what you were meant to do in the world. In the world. Yeah, you know what's interesting about this book that you wrote that I like is how you reference

all these other people in the book. Yeah. So like, you guys are gonna read this book and it's got Babe Ruth and Lou Garic. You really get into Lou Garic. I do. Like I'm a huge baseball fan. I learned a crap about Lou Garic in a book on life.

I had no idea it was gonna learn. Queen Elizabeth, which is interesting timing in there, right? Like, it's a really profound way you keep it so entertaining. You said something, I'm gonna start with my favorite thing. No one has more pain than the lazy. Yeah, what do you mean by that? Well, we think we avoid pain by being lazy, but we create pain because we feel unfulfilled.

We don't have what we want. Things are hard, We don't have the skills or the muscles to do things that should come easy to us, right? So it's like, we think we're taking the easy way out, but we're really just making it harder for ourselves later. And so, is that why you... I was surprised. I thought of stoicism. I'm like, all right, I'm going to be quiet. I'm not going to do anything. Yeah. It's sort of what I thought originally. Yeah. But there's all this stuff on the book like on doing strenuous things.

Yeah. So why is it so important to do strenuous things? You write about it in the book, but I want them to know. Well, it's like, you know, you think of your image of the philosophers as like, Turtle Meck University professor soft, you know, a feminine, right? But, you know, markets are really us in Santa Cung.

They're, they train in wrestling and horseback riding and they hunt. They're living the strenuous life. And philosophy was a strong mind to counterbalance a strong body, right? So they're active. They're doing things in the world. They played sports, they fought in the army. These were active participants in life.

Yeah, it's not philosophy. Today seems like this academic sort of abstract pursuit. Again, Marcus really says the most powerful man in the world. The philosophy for him is not like, oh, how do we know, you know, whether we live in a computer simulation or not? Right, like it's not like this, is there such thing as free will?

He's like, I want to stop losing my temper at people. I want to know how to not be corrupted by my power and success. I want to know what sort of code, what ethics I should live by as a human being in a world where I can do anything and everything that I want. So over the stokes, they settle on these sort of four virtues, which is what I'm writing about. So courage is the first one. Self-discipline is the second one. Justice, how we treat other people as the third, and then wisdom is the fourth. And so you can, if you see them philosophy as these set of ideas, well then doing strenuous stuff, hunting, wrestling, fighting, running, these are ways to test those ideas, right? To build the muscle of the ability to put yourself in tough situations, to push through

your limits, right? To hold back when you need to hold back, right? It's just as sports are a metaphor now, it's also a training ground. So after I started looking at your work, I actually think the work that you're doing is, and the stoicism principles are more relevant and important now than they were then because this is my reasoning because there's so many other things that can distract us now. There's so much more noise.

There's so much other stimulus than even a guy. The thing that struck me, and all you comment on that, the thing that struck me about Marcus Relius was, and I'd like to think I have one millionth of one percent of this, that although he was a very powerful influential man, he's very vulnerable, very thoughtful. Like in an age where nothing like that was embraced, it wasn't even, I don't even know that it was even valued then, right?

So do you feel like these principles are more, oh not more, but I can say more, you don't need to judge it, but extraordinarily relevant because of all the distractions that we have on our phone and our TV or the technology, everything in our life Well, I think it so you take markets really, right? He's the most powerful man in the world. He oversees this enormous army this empire 50 million people

Yes, make all these decisions all the inputs that are coming at him That would be so overwhelming and so this way he's concentrate like a Roman win all your thoughts lock in But that pales in comparison to like what you and I would get on our phone right now in while we're talking, right? Like their world was so much smaller than ours. He didn't know, he, he not even wasn't getting news from the far flunk corners of the world. He didn't know they existed, right? Right. Right. So like, if it was relevant then it's extra relevant now. And so I certainly think all of those virtues are more are as important if not more important today. I do too. And I think you make a good point because sometimes people see stoicism as masculine

because we primarily hear about the male stoics because they're like the only ones that wrote. But first off, stoicism was taught to women at that time. Mousonius Rufus, one of the great stoke teacher says like virtue is flattering on a man and flattering on a woman. It might look different, but it's the highest form of excellence, right? Excellence period, Arate. Yeah, you know, it's the name of a coaching group. Arate is Arate.

Arate is Arate. Like it has no gender to it. It just is. Could I tell you one thing? I'm really glad you said that. My audience is probably about 65% female. Yes. And when I was having you on, I wanted to make sure I should have said that in the beginning. Um, I think sometimes when you hear Marcus, the realist is me like, all right, this is the dude show today. Not like absolutely not true at all. The

principles are general neutral. Well, in any ways, it's like, it's almost more stoic that most of the female stoics we've just never heard of. They didn't need the adept. That's more stoic than the audience. You know what I mean? Like, good point. But what is interesting about meditations is like, it's you and I wrote books as we had something we wanted to say to other people.

Yeah. He's writing this book to himself. He'd be like mortified to know that we're talking about because he's like, why'd you do this? Like, he got to stop doing this. Like, he's talking to himself. And so sometimes academic philosophers will, one of the criticism's marks

to realize is that he repeats himself. And it's like, if you ever met a person, we tend to have the same problems. And we're dealing with them over and over and over again. That's why he's repeating himself. It's so good. Yeah, the level of humanity that he displayed. Yeah, I think is the most compelling part.

I think there's lessons in that for all of us too. He opens meditation. My favorite party, you don't want to talk about vulnerable. The first book in meditations is called debts and lessons. And it's just him writing about what he learned from all of the people in his life. And my favorite line, he learned this from sex to one of the his boss, he teachers he wrote, he said, what I learned from sex is to be free of passion, but full of love. So not anger or fear or selfishness or greed or any of those other strong emotions that can drive us to do things, but instead a kind of a compassion and empathy, a purpose to me, that's what he's saying.

And oh, I love that. Bro, I love that you just said that. It's interesting, my work's changed without knowing you would say that and without knowing that he said that. Yeah. I used to, I have really moved my work into that space that I really believe all great things are created from love.

Yeah. That I really believe it's the ultimate emotion for creativity, for achievement. I mean, I actually think love is the highest form of achievement. I just really believe that. So I did not know that he said that. There's a part that I have a hard time dealing with that you talk about. I want to go to it early, all right, which is the ambition piece. Yeah. So you would think with all this stuff about routines and attack the dawn and do strenuous things and all the stuff that's in the book,

which we'll probably talk a little bit about, that those things lead inevitably to achievement. Sure. But a really significant part of this work in this book is about not being intoxicated by ambition. Yeah. And I understand it because I have been before. So you're right, but it's a really nuanced point to make for people that have not yet achieved.

Like, it could almost be like a cop out. Yes. I've disconnected from my ambition. Therefore, I'm more stoic in my nature, right? So elaborate and take all the time you want. Because it's a biggie to me. Let's stipulate some people, their problems, they don't have any ambition or enough ambition. That's why they haven't gotten their butt off the couch.

That's why they don't take care of themselves. That's why they're afraid to try. But then there are people who have ambition, who are driven, who are talented. And that ambition is a double-edged sword. And you have to figure out how to manage it. It's because it's easy to turn yourself over to it. I want to be the richest person in the world.

I want to be the greatest who ever did this or that. I want to get all the prizes, all the attention. But the Stokes would say the problem with that is it's all predicated on stuff that you don't control. So like being great at the game of football, that's something you control. Whether you get drafted by the right team in the right city, in the right moment, whether you get injured or not, whether you get selected to the pro bowl, these are things that by definition, you have less control over.

So what are you, what are you basing your goals on? Arexious is, you know, ambition is tying your identity or success to what other people say or do. Sanity is tying it to what you say or do. So when I work on a book, of course, and I've had those prizes, so it's easier for me to say, I've sold lots of books, I've been number one on various lists, I've had people say your book changed my life, that's all wonderful, but that can't be what you're aiming at, because you don't control it. What I try to do, as I sit down and write a go,

am I writing the best possible book that I'm capable of writing? Am I putting everything that I'm capable of putting into it? Is it accomplishing what I want it to accomplish? And then on the day it comes out, if it has that other stuff, that's extra, but I can't let, I've had books that sold enough copies to be on the list, number one on the list, and they weren't there. Because the system is not fair. Life isn't fair.

Also, what if you put out a book the day there's a hurricane or, you know, some major news event? None of that is up to you. So you, you, the, the, the, for, to me, the essence of stoicism is like, is it up to you or not up to you? It's only worth going after if it's up to you. What profound wisdom, the other thing too, is even when you hit these things that are ambition based or outside of you based, they can feel good. But they don't feel as good as the feel good that comes from doing the thing that rewards

your soul or that matters to you. You can still feel it. It's a lie. You make New York Times best seller. You make $10 million. You get some award. It feels good. Yeah. But it actually is good as you get some award, feels good.

But it actually is good as you think though. It doesn't. It's, it's, it's, is that not totally true? That's why this stuff is so wise. Like, it really isn't. I hate to say it because then I worry that people won't make an effort to be their ultimate best. But if you have not tied it to what you just said, that it matters to you, that it's something

you can control, that it rewards your soul, It is not as good as you think it is. The problem is we think, we tell ourselves that we want to be number one, we want to get drafted, we want to start a company that goes public, and we tell ourselves it's because we want that, but really what we want is dad to be proud, or we want to show those people who laughed at us, or whatever, and you're never gonna get that.

You're never gonna get, you're never going to get that. You're never going to get, you're never going to fix these internal things with external accomplishments. That doesn't mean external accomplishments can't be achieved. They can and should be achieved. The problem is if you think standing on the metal stand, getting the gold metal is finally going to make you feel good about yourself,

you're going to be very disappointed when not only you don't, but there's this part of you in your brain that says, no, it only counts if you can do it twice, or you're silver instead of gold, you suck, right? And your mind, I think evolutionarily were wired to never be satisfied. And it's a hard thing because I'm sure everyone listening, they're like, yeah, yeah, sure. But it's one of those things you can really only, you got to get a taste of it. The thing is, can you learn it early with your first success and then detach or separate success from happiness? Oh, yeah.

And then still try to achieve both. Or does it take you over and over and over and over again and then your wife leaves you and your kids don't like you and you you realize you spent your whole life at the office and you go, why did I do that? Right? The earlier you learn that, the better. Well, a million percent. I'm learning it now and I'm 51 and I've been teaching it by the way to other people

for like 15 years, but I'm just learning it now. Last week at the time we're recording this not when it comes out with you. And I my guest was a guy named David A Arnold. His life is was amazing right now. Number one special on Netflix. Number one show we wrote that's on Nickelodeon. It was filming a movie. We released the show Tuesday.

He died Wednesday. Wow. Yeah. And and it was a happy and fulfilled man, but part of the lesson in that for me was, Ed, is it okay if my show's really number one? Like what really matters, right? At the end on that day for David,

God bless him, I loved him. You know, was that the most important thing that he got an award for the Nickelodeon show? Right. Right, does that really define his life? Is it, it's not, that's not what defined his life, right? What defined a life, thank God, is you such a wonderful man and husband and father. I Also find and you talk about this in the book. I

Think successful or happy people have a different relationship with discomfort than unhappy people. Sure meaning I I kind of enjoy doing uncomfortable things. I have found, after pursuing them over and over again in my life, that I'm more familiar with it, I guess, now. And I kind of see it as a space I like to be in. Whereas I think most humans, because we're wired this way, our natural proclivity is to avoid discomfort. And it's another one of the principles that you have in the book.

Yeah, Lance Armstrong told me one time, he was like, I trained because I love riding the bike. He's like, I raced for money, right? And so do you love the work or do you love the thing, right? And I, here's the thing, people go, but if you love the thing and you can't not do it, you will also most likely be very good at that thing. Do you know what I mean?

Yes, 100% I tell you that. If you wrote the book because you loved it and you put everything that you didn't cut any corners, you did your best, you're 100% locked in. Chances are more often than not, that is going to work. If you're writing the book because you think this is a lucrative niche and you want to cash in at this moment and you think it'll help your career be a good business card, maybe, but most of the time it won't. So it's really about averages, like what's, what add it, and so like a comedian who loves the, the act of standup will do so much standup that eventually they will become world-class and they'll get the specials and all the other things.

But if you're, if you're in it because you think it'll be fun because you think it'll get you girls because you think it'll impress your your parents. It's gonna piss your parents off You're gonna find that when it gets really hard you don't have what it takes to stay with it Yeah, staying power is only through the love of the game to some extent in the book part one's the exterior of the body part Tuesday in her domain temperament. This guy's stuff is so good, right? The soul is another part of the book. Morning routine, maybe the single most over talked about thing in the history of personal development in the last 10 years, right? Yeah. Yeah. How many people have good morning routine?

That's the deal. That's why I want to talk about it with you. I think it became a fad. Yeah. Actually, I think it's talked about way more than implemented. Yes. I really do. Yeah. Actually, I think it's talked about way more than implemented. Yes. I really do. Yes. And I actually know some of the dudes who talk about it who even themselves don't implement the morning routine that they talk about. So you talk a little bit about attacking the dawn. Another thing I've grown to know in my life is the happiest and successful people I know, do a lot of stuff earlier in the day than the people that I know that aren't as happy or

successful. I want to talk about both those things. So to me Well, I tell the story of Tony Morrison in the bookshade this great line She's like I got to get up and get to work before I hear the word mom and I think that's Actually the same thing that rich successful like billionaires get up and work out at the gym at 4 a.m Because that's their time. They cannot leave the office at 2 p.m. to go work out. There's too much happening.

The day gets away from you. Like when I hear about people who are like, yeah, you know, and then I write, maybe in the afternoon, no, you gotta know when you do it and that's always gotta be when you do it. Or you're gonna find reasons to not do it. And I think Pete Holmes, another comedian, once told me, is like getting up early is like

robbing a bank when no one's there. Oh, good. You know, and you're like, the morning, there's less interruptions, less people. My thing is, I don't touch my phone for the first 30 minutes to an hour on the wake, and I just, that's my time. I don't actually write, write when I wake up.

I take my kids for a long walk. We do this a lot, my kids are still young. So we do a long walk outside in the morning before I've been sucked into stuff. So I carry that, like I know, even if the day gets away from me, I had quality time in my family. I quality time outside. I got active.

I thought I was intentional thinking about what I have to do today, what I want to do well. And then when I sit down and write, I got that's what I'm bringing to it. Not I check Twitter before my feet even hit the ground out of bed. And I'm already pissed off and already distracted. Like that you're you're not setting yourself up for success. I love you. The number one non-negotiable part of my routine is not touching my phone the first 30 minutes. It's also the hardest thing to have for me to have developed was that. Yeah. I love you. The number one non-negotiable part of my routine is not touching my phone the first 30 minutes. It's also the hardest thing to have me to have developed was that. Yeah. I find it the most valuable thing. I've gone back in fourth cold shower, no cold showers. I've done, you know, I'm going to get up and train really hard in the beginning. I'm going to do

my writing early in the morning. I'm going to do my, I've moved those things around. What I've not moved around in a very long time is touching my phone the first 30 minutes. I think it's the, I think because it's so difficult to do it, ought to prove to everybody how valuable it actually is to do it. And I have to sleep with it in the other room. So if I get up on the bathroom the middle of the night, I'm not like, what's happened? Like, you got to create some shelter.

So that way, you know, if you're getting a good amount of sleep, that's like, you know, seven, eight hours of no phone consecutively, which is already set you up for a good, a good day where you're not the majority of that time on the phone. Well, I think it tells you who you are. I think if you're grabbing your phone, the first thing you get up, you've decided, I'm a responder and a reactor in my life.

I don't dictate any of the terms. I'm in no control of anything. And I think if you can at least wait 30 minutes, that choice in and of itself gives you a form of control. Even if what's in that phone, by the way, needs response when you get there, you set a syntax or a context of your life that the whole world is not going to dictate to me what happens in any given day, that I'm in charge of this, at least to some extent. I think if you can get some control over the first 30 minutes of your day, some control

over the last 30 minutes, there's a higher probability. You'll have at least the illusion of control over the middle of your day. What's like, do you use the phone or does the phone use you? Yeah. Right? And it's like, if you, if you can't control when you use it or not, like you're the tool, a friend of mine telling me his, literally, yeah, his, his, his morning routine is like, get up. Of course, I check my phone real fast to see if there's any fires I have to put out. Then I go do this stuff. And I was like, do course, I check my phone real fast to see if there's any fires I have to put out.

Then I go do this stuff. And I was like, do you ever not find fire? He winks in there. Of course, that's what the phone is, but that's also what you are looking for. And by definition, you're gonna find it. I wanna start the day in control, with the long view, I want to set the pace, right?

You don't want the fact that one of your colleagues emailed you at 3am with something that's not really important, but they actually Michael Bostic and Lauren told me that they were like, your inbox is a to-do list put together by other people. So good. It's so good, right? Totally good. And then you're like, oh, okay, so I'll get to those things when I get to them, not when you get to them. Very good.

See, there's, there's, made to say something, Ryan's work is so loaded that what we'll cover in this hour is going to change your life, but it is honestly maybe 2% of even just this book. Not, I'm not saying that to make you feel good, but I, because I, I have all these circles I made and I can already tell I'm not going to get to a of them. But, so you said, look, I get up, I don't check my phone, I go take this walk with my kids. Now I'm kinda creative, what? In the book, you say perfectionism is actually a vice.

Yeah. That's a strong term to make, right? And I think the reason most people that struggle, struggle is they have a higher threshold of how good or prepared they think they have to be to take an action in order not to take. In other words, most people I know that are pretty successful or happy have a lower threshold of how good

they think they have to be at something before they'll be in it. They'll step into a space and say, I'll figure it out when I get there. And when I get there, I'll figure out the next space. And I'll figure it out. That doesn't mean they don't practice preparation. Doesn't mean I'm more confident in today's interview

because I prepared my ass off for this, right? But I also know something could happen that I'm not prepared for. It doesn't cause me to not pursue this craft. That's totally right. I think the more you've done, the more experience you have, the more confidence you have in yourself. And so you under, you can remember how things were when you started, which is not anywhere close to where they were when you Finish there's a hamming with code. I have it on a poster my wall. This is the first draft of everything is Or anything I forget but I did a version of it where I marked it up like even that sentence He didn't that didn't come out perfectly formed shape that he shaped that. And so, writing as a metaphor, you get comfortable with first-dress.

You go, if I don't do it because I want it to be perfect, it will never be good, and then I can't polish it to perfection, right? And then perfection itself does not exist. It's a, it's the horizon. It's always a little bit further away. And so, if you get come, like, for me, it's like, I'm just trying to make something that exists and I can

Edit it and shape it and change it and improve it, but if I'm so First of high my own supply so convinced I'm a genius whatever I'm I'm never gonna actually do it and then it will be perfect in my head Yeah, but it won't ever be shipable. Oh, man that's really true. Speaking of firsts, I love this. You say, do hard things first. Why? Well, writing is the hard thing in my profession. So it's like, I don't allow myself to make up

a bunch of other stuff that I do first to get then distracted. Like, I hate, I think breakfast meeting should be illegal. Right? Breakfast coffees, morning staff meeting. No, go do the work. Then once we've made some headway, then we have the luxury of going,

hey, what's the next thing we need to be thinking about? Like, if you're putting it off, you're gonna come up with reasons that you never have to get to it. Brother, I'm a disciplined person I'd like to think. And here's how right he is. You actually write about someone that I work with in your book. I won't say who it is, but she's the run of country. And I work out first in the morning. It's one of the

first things I do. When the reason it's one of the first things I do is because it's hard for me. And after 30 some odd years of being in gyms, it's not my favorite place to go anymore. It just isn't. So I have to do it early in the day. Well, some of my coaching has started to happen overseas. It means they're up, I have to get up really early to do these coaching calls with some of these people. One of them is a woman in your book.

And on the days where I coach her, I don't work out early in the day, right? And I have it kind of scheduled like around 11 o'clock. I'm just being real with you. All of a sudden, around 11, 30, I'm on Instagram again, 12, 15. I'm doing emails at one o'clock. You know what? I'll do it at five o'clock after dinner.

Now, this is me and I've trained for 35 years. There have been several days. I just didn't work out those days. And it's pathetic, but it's because you should do hard things first in your day. You've proven it. And I'm evidence of it with this hard. You've got to change. You know, I got this other day. Then I got to take a shower after. Yeah've proven it, and I'm evidence of it with this hard.

I got to change, you know, I got this other thing. Then I got to take a shower after, yeah, exactly. I'll just do it. Get it out of the way. Yes. And that's how I think about writing is the win every day for me, because that's what I do. If my thing was training people, I would do the training,

whatever the win is, you got to do that, cross it off. And then if you get to the other stuff, that's extra. Yeah. Right, it can't be you do the extra, and then if you get to the other stuff, that's extra. Yeah. Right, it can't be you do the extra, and then maybe you get to the main thing. I spoke to the Rams a couple of years ago, and they said, the main thing is to keep the main thing, the main thing. Like, what is that for you? And then, is your day built around it?

Yes or no? Yes. Because if it's not, what is that set? It's very true. It's like, I just get a coaching call yesterday with some entrepreneurs. I'm like, are you actually moving the needle with what you're doing? Yeah.

And you can look at your life in your day that way. Early in your day, are you moving the needle on your day? Are you kicking the needle down the road, so to speak, right? And it's just, and also you get momentum. When what's the thing, the way I think about it too, is like, what are the things that only I can do, right? Right. Yeah.

But it's like, if I, what is the main driver here? For, but it's like, if, what is the main driver here for me? It's like, am I writing coming up with the idea? Is the other stuff, it's important, but it's downstream from that. Really good point. And you gotta know what that is. Like the most powerful law in economics is the law of comparative advantage, right?

If I pick apples better than you and you pick oranges better than me, we can't both be picking each other's stuff. We gotta find our land, stick to it, and then that makes the whole economy grows as a result of that. So good, so good, so good. The, we should have done the three hours that I told you.

I wanna keep going. I told him we're not going three hours that you didn't know, but I kinda wanna go three hours. We won't go that far, but, so the part of the work that affects me the most, and maybe it's the crux of the work. And maybe it's only the crux of the work from me, right? I bet different parts of what you're writing about. But you talk a lot about having the, I'll use my terminology and you can correct me. The discipline to deny or pass on temptation in life, right? So it's this This idea that there's temptation and someone who was I guess

Practicing more stoicism than someone who is not has developed the ability to not give into those temptations whatever they might be in life the thing I have seen hurt most humans in my life has been their inability to do a temptation. A, they become successful and now they get the temptation if they're a guy of women or the temptation of, I've saved a bunch of money, the temptation to spend it. Drugs. Drugs, whatever it might be. Also, the temptation to watch Netflix, the temptation to be gluttonous, the temptation, and this is for anybody in life. But there's these temptations that we sort of have this intuitive knowing, pull us from who we best are, that we give into every single day in different ways

in most parts of our life. And the most happy and of all people I know, do it less. They don't do it never, but they do it less. Yeah, Seneca, he says, show me a man who isn't a slave, right? One who is mistress, one to power, one to recognition. He says, even the slave master is a slave to the slaves, right? The idea that like, you're big, enormous estate,

it like, do you own the company, or does the company own you? Right? And so I think deciding, like we were talking about with the phone, like, who's in control, me or it? it and the ability to go like I don't do that I'm not gonna That's not for me. I don't care if everyone does it. I don't care if you think I'm weird for doing it It doesn't work for me. It's not part of my life and the ability to have those lines like I always respect people and We make fun of people have like weird dietary things and it was was like, no, they decided they don't eat this,

and that's a rule they follow. I respect that when I see it, right? And what I tend to find is that that's a transferable skill, right? So the ability to say, like, I don't do X also allows you to say, I don't do Y, right? And so sometimes cultivating that is really important. The ability to say, like, there's a famous story

about Richard Feynman that I tell in the book that is really important. The ability to say, like, there's a famous story about Richard Feynman that I tell in the book that is the physicist. He's, he's, he's walking to work one day and he just feels this poll like in the middle of a morning to go have a drink. And he's not an alcoholic. He has no moral argument against drinking but he doesn't like that feeling.

That feeling of like, go do this. Because that wasn't him. That was some part in him. And that he never drinks a day again in his life. And I think you want to cultivate that. Like, what are the things that you're sort of compulsively doing, the things that just sort of your powerless to do, once the idea comes in your head?

That's what you want to develop the muscle, the ability to be like, nah, not anymore. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's really good. So the thing that pops in your mind that's that compulsive temptation is probably the thing. That's the signal. Yes, okay, right. And then developing the ability to be like,

I can stop doing compulsive things is really important, right? That's strength, right? Lots of strong people can lift heavy things, but then they are powerless. That's what Senna could say. They're powerless over this thing. We think about some of their super powerful world leader, but they're obsessed with checking their, you know, their mentions or something, right? Or they're obsessed with dominating people, but they can't stop this impulse.

And then that ultimately or inevitably tends to lead to their destruction in some way. So is it a little bit about and I don't know that it is. So I want to ask you, is it a little bit about chipping away at one's excessive? I think so. Yeah. Not getting perfect, but chipping away. It's not just doing the right things, but chipping away at the things that make us less than were capable of me. I think that's right. I mean, temperance, the word, it is about what's the right amount. So some things, the right amount is zero, right? But a lot of things, it's an appropriate, healthy amount and beyond that point, it starts to get a part,

like, again, it's almost easier to be like, I don't drink than to be like, this is when I stop drinking. Right, like, I've had enough. And this is also true for success. Like think about how many boxers can't leave when it's enough. You're right.

And then they go too far and that's their downfall. And so again, cultivating the ability to be like, I decide when this stops. You're right. And when you're listening to this, you might go, well, mine's not drinking or drugs or porn or sex or spending money. Is it worry? Is it worry? Is it or sex or spending money. Is it worry?

Is it worry? Is it anxiety? Is it fear? Is it anger? Control. Control. Good one. Control.

Well, you just hit one of mine. Yeah, like the micromanaging thing, like, you're like, why don't people like working for me? Right, right. You're not fun to work for. Yeah, yeah. It's a mouth. I think overall, it's the knowledge of getting quiet and more self-aware and understanding oneself.

Is that the basis of the work, would you say, to some extent? And I think that's what Marcus is doing in meditations. He's talking to himself and working it out on the page like your thoughts can deceive you, but when you put them down and you have to have that discussion, you go, yeah, right? Yeah. I mean, putting yourself up for review, I mean, putting yourself up for review, the stoics, putting yourself up for review.

That's a difficult thing to do. What's uncomfortable? Yeah, it's uncomfortable. And I'm doing it lately. It's interesting for my audience to be in real time. You know, I think they're surprised often. We're, you know, look, the other part of me is like, okay, here's how you do all these things.

But I'm also a work in progress. In other words, even for the audience, or even my friend, I don't wanna be the same guy next year I am this year, then I have not that same, I wanna, my values diminished to the world if I'm the same person. I ought to have new distinctions and new wisdom and new breakthrough.

And so should you, should, are listening to this. Okay, beware this madness. What is that? That's the part, I just part of the book, I'm like, what is that? I'm talking about when you lose, we're talking about losing control. When you lose control over your emotions, that sort of temporary burst madness of insanity, anger, frustration, resentment, fear, lusts, right? When you're losing control of yourself, your defenseless in the face of that thing. I tell a story of

Sam could sell the basketball player. He hits this great shot as he's running back to celebrate. He can't stop himself from taunting the opponents. And he does this. They call it the big balls dance. He acts like he's cradling his huge balls, but he fractures his hip in doing this, right? Uh-huh. It is out basically the rest of the series. They don't go all the way to, they don't win the finals.

The idea of like anytime you're doing, is that the Stokes were against emotion? I think they were out, they were against doing things when consumed by emotion, right? Or letting emotions overwhelm you, right? So it's like, you get some rude email. I'd say you should let someone talk to you that way. It's not to say you shouldn't respond,

but responding with anger is not gonna improve things. So the ability to be like, I'm gonna step back, I'm gonna do this calmly. Almost everything is done better calmly. A hundred percent. By the way, I call it equanimity in my book, Calmness Under Dress, right? Staying in that moment and staying in that silence is strength is something you say. I really want to spend a little bit of time on this. I think that silence is it's free. Yeah. And it's yet almost never taken advantage of by our culture anymore and even for me. I just interviewed a colonel Brady

Yeah, it's got a new book called the 12-hour walk and the concept of it is at least put your phone down for 12 hours and take a walk and take your life I Think more and more with all the noise in our lives in this day and age people are becoming less and less familiar with silence lives in this day and age, people are becoming less and less familiar with silence. They want a lot of people have to have someone else around them or their phone on or the TV on or the radio on or something. And silence is this free space that is so beautiful and liberating that now as humans, we don't even take advantage of anymore. I was a director of marketing in American apparel for a long time and I sort of watched

the company go and all went out to go. And the CEO would call me sometimes, two, three in the morning. I would be asleep, he'd wake me up. And he would just talk to me until he fell asleep. And at first, I was very young and I thought, you know, am I this important? What is it, and what is this?

Is it that he really cares about? And then I realized, this man can't be alone in those two minutes that he's cares about. And then I realized this man can't be alone in those two minutes that he's falling asleep. And what epiphanies, what changes, what reflections, what awareness might have come if you could have that space. Like it's possible now to fill every second with noise. That's what your phone is. And you have to cultivate that silence because it's in the what your phone is. And you have to cultivate

that silence because it's in the reflection that you have ideas, you have breakthroughs. I was at a pool one time just getting into go swimming and someone recognized me and said, Oh, I love your books. And I said, I wrote those books in this pool. Like I swim in this pool because I can't hear anything. I just, you know, my ears are underwater. It's like essentially, like, I'm alone with my thoughts and the ideas come to me then. And you have to cultivate that silence. It's, you're right, it's free,

but it's also the most valuable thing in the world. It is. It's why so many people tell me my favorite moment of the day is when I'm in bed and I hit the bed and I'm like, well, if that's your favorite moment of the day, it's telling you that you're yearning for a little silence and you're all quiet. I find myself even like when I travel,

when I shut the hotel room door and I'm in there alone, I'm like, oh, this is so good. Dude, who have kids, they got noisy lives, they spend an inordinate amount of time in the bathroom doing what they need to do in there and they just sit in this little room, do it because it's just a quiet time. That audit tell us all, we have this yearning

for silence in our lives that the noise is not allowing us to appreciate how much we need or who we want it in our lives. Yeah, look, that's why I like getting up early in the morning. It's quieter then. You know what I mean? Get up before the emails have really started and then you don't have to have as much strength

or willpower to ignore them. What's a practice? What's your life look like now? Look at all these philosophies, by the way, to me, it's just like really great stuff. It's soicism, but it's just really great stuff of how to live a better life. But what's like a practice that you do daily?

Is it your meditation time that allows you to sort of participate more in this quality of work? Or what is it that you do? My big morning practice, my meditation practice, is journaling, sitting down and writing things down, creating some space between me and the thoughts. And like we said, putting yourself up for review. I don't want to wake up 20 years from now and go like, man, how did I get here? I want to be doing that reflection on a regular daily basis and catch the things before, like one of the things I'll notice in my journal is like,

if I'm saying the same thing over and over again, well, I need to make some changes, right? If I'm like so tired today, so tired today, if I'm writing that three days in a row, like something's wrong with the decisions I'm making in my life. Really good. And I can make those, I let's make those changes now before I end up somewhere unrecognizable.

I think most people, bro, I love your work. Like I really do. It's for me. Yeah. It's for me. I know it said that three times, but I just want to express to you my gratitude for it. The, um, of a really good friend of mine who's made lots, lots of money. And he's actually helped a lot of people too. He contributes and gives a lot of money away. He spends a lot of time. And he's unhappy. And by the way, on the surface, you go,

well, Mary, to the same person makes lots of money, gives lots of money away. This guy's live in the life kind. He doesn't give into a lots of money away. This guy's living the life kind. He doesn't give in to a lot of temptation, frankly, he's a good dude. And he's unhappy. And he said, I just can't figure out why I'm unhappy. And I said, I think I know. And I said, by and large brother, you've lived a completely unexamined life. In other words, there's never been time for self-examination.

And so many of us even listening to this, it might be a breakthrough moment for so many of you. You may be doing good things. You may be growing. You may have all these things, but you're supposed to be examining your life to some extent. I love what you're saying. Put yourself up for review. I use the terminology of an unexamined life. And you know, we should check in with ourselves regularly because we may be so far down a path and winning down a path that is no longer the path that we want to be on or need to be on but we haven't even examined it for years and years and years if ever. So that's sort of what you mean to the extent of putting yourself up a review is self-examination, right? Yeah, if you don't know who you are, what you want, what kind of life you want, you just end up defaulting to what everyone else is doing.

Or what you used to want. What you've always done. Yeah. Right. And so it takes, it takes an active practice of questioning and reviewing and talking, not just with yourself, but also with other people. Maybe you have a therapist, a spouse, like you want to be doing this now when you can steer the boat, not when you've ended up somewhere and you're stuck, right? If you've been doing the same thing, I'm questioned for 20 years. Changing course is now going to be really expensive, really difficult. But if you've been making these micro adjustments as you go, you know, those things humanively shaped the direction

or the trajectory you're going. And if you don't do that, you just end up living a pattern. Yeah. It's just a pattern. It's a pattern of thoughts, a pattern of emotions, a pattern of behavior, a pattern of people, and it just becomes, and if we're not careful

in our lives, I write about this in my work, our minds move towards what it's most familiar with. Yeah. So if you don't ever have unfamiliar thoughts, unfamiliar examinations, this journaling or this thinking, you just have a life that's a pattern. Well, it's like, what's your North Star, right? Like what is the fit, not just your main thing,

but like what's the value, the purpose, like what is the main thing you're trying to do that matters, right? And then how are you tacking or tracking against that, right? Is this promotion you were just offered or this attractive stranger that sent you a drink in a bar? How does that get you closer or further away from that thing? Yes. I, I, I, I sometimes when I look at like major decisions in my life, like, hey, do you want to move here and do this? Like, hey, do you want to take on this project? I go,

when I look back and ask myself why I got divorced, is this that reason? Right? But my norr star is I want to be a good spouse and father. Those, that's really important. My work is also very important to me and these things are in a tension or a balance with each other, but I don't But I don't want the fact that a cool opportunity is there over and over and over. You just default to saying yes to that. You're simultaneously saying no, no, no, to these other people and these other things.

And then you're telling yourself you're doing it for them, but you're not. You're just doing it because it's easier to say yes than it is to say no. Yeah. Yeah. Well, well, well, very good. So yeah, I relate to that. You send up just sort of chasing the next shiny thing and not having an examination of what this means to the other things that matter to you because you don't have a true North Star. I have a true North Star in my life, but one of the things you say in the book about this other people thing is Listen to this guys tolerant with others

strict with yourself That's you if you can get to that nuance your one heck of an evolved human being. That's the highest level, right? It's easy to just everyone should follow my rules, right? But it's called self-discipline for a reason, right? You only control this like You only control this, like, you only control the standards you set for yourself and nothing will make you more unhappy than making up rules and then being upset

that people who've never even heard these rules are not following them, right? They didn't sign up for this, right? You gotta be comfortable being like, this is important to me because it's important to me and If you want to live your life your own way. I got to be okay with that Kato Kato the younger is his famous joke. He's the strictest guy on themself He's fearless. He's unincorruptible. You know

Even though he's rich. He dresses in playing clit all this stuff But his brother was the opposite and he loved his brother incorruptible, you know, even though he's rich, he dresses in plain clothes, all this stuff. But his brother was the opposite. And he loved his brother. It's like Bruce Springson said, sometimes it's your brother, you got to look the other way. You know, like, you got to go, you're you, you're living your life. If it works for you, it works for you. I can tell you why I don't think it's working for you if you want my advice. But I'm not going gonna criticize you, resent you, and most of all, I'm not going to try to punish you for doing your things your way. These are all principles just like when you hear them,

you're like, yep, I'd live a better life if I did that. Yep, that would be better for me. Yep, that would be better for me. And it's a matter of, I think reading for me, and if you don't read, you listen to audio books, whatever, is a form of self-examination. When I'm reading, I might read a bit. I'm thinking, I'm resonant to what's being written, but I'm really reflecting on me as

I'm reading the words. I think that's the most powerful way to read on the sole part of the book. We can't cover it all because I want to get the book. By the way, again, we've covered like 2.3% now. But you say the power of giving power away, it probably you've hit on the area that would be most difficult for me in terms of my evolution,

would be the power of giving power away. What does that mean and what's like an application of it? But George Washington's greatest moment is when he resigns his commission in the Continental Army and says, I don't want to be king. They said, he could have become king of America. And the king of England, when he hears this, he says, he says, what's what's Mr. Washington going to do after he defeats the greatest empire in the world? And as painter says, I believe he's going to return to his farm. And he says, if he does that, he is the greatest man in the world to know when to step down, to know when to share,

to know when someone is better than you at something. This is extremely hard and requires so much help this one. As majestic as that is for Washington, when he repeats it again when he voluntarily leaves after two terms, but Mark's really just chosen to be emperor. His father's an ember, he's chosen. But there's this pesky thing that he has a step brother. Yes. And what does he do? I mean, historically Machiavelli would be like, you gotta get rid of this guy.

You're good, kill him. And the first thing Markus does with absolute power is he anoints his brother, co-emperor. And his brother also, opposite of him in so many ways. But he writes in meditations, he says, what I. And his brother also, opposite of him in so many ways, but he writes in meditation, he says, what I loved about his brother was how his character challenged me to improve my own. So he didn't try to make his brother a replica of himself, a mirror of himself. He used his brother where his brother could help him and where his brother had skills,

and he didn't, and he was willing to share and let him be him and Marcus be Marcus. didn't, and he was willing to share and let him be him and Marcus be Marcus. And he wasn't so insecure that he needed everything for himself. And I think so often we see great athletes, great entrepreneurs, great leaders, great politicians not know when their moment is over. And when it's not to say they can't continue to contribute, but they're no longer the top spot. And if you're so egotistical, you can't plan for a legacy, you're going to end up creating a legacy. It just won't be a positive one. Yeah, and by the way, that you're so right.

It affects us in every day. We run in our businesses too, thinking that we're the best at everything in our company, where we would give some of the control away to someone who's actually better at these things and have the discernment to give some of that power away and let them go. Your company would grow your life or grow maybe even in your family. Maybe your wife is just way better at some of these things than you and you just ought to let her have them or reverse.

Your husband is. And I think oftentimes in life that that notion of giving the power is not easy for me. I'm a control person. And it's something that that's part of my revolution as a man has to be connected to that. And once you give them the power, letting them do it their way, right? So it's like, hey, you're in charge of this. Here's how I would do it, but I just want you to do it.

However it works, that's on you. Again, this is tolerant with others, trick with yourself. Like, I'm going to allow you to be you. I don't want, I'm not so rigid or insecure that I think everyone needs to be exactly like me. The way I do it works for me. You all have different processes, different backgrounds,

different needs, skills, strengths, and we gotta respect that. You use the word insecure, but I can tell you, and it's correlated for me. I know when I'm afraid to give away control and power. It's when I'm afraid. Yeah. Which is pretty close to insecure. Yeah. It's when I'm afraid to give away control and power. It's when I'm afraid, which is pretty close to insecure. It's when I'm afraid. I'm afraid if I let you do this, my son's going

to go, if you handle the discipline, my wife, my son's going to turn out to be like my dad of me, drug addict, or if I let you run this part of my company, I'm going to go broke. I mean, these are ridiculous correlations we make. But you have to ask yourself when you're not giving control away in your life to people around you. Is that from coming from a place of fear or insecurity? Because I think most of the time, ask yourself when you're not giving control away in your life to people around you Is that from coming from a place of fear or insecurity because I think most of the time That's what you're operating out of when you're trying to hold on to control all the time. I think that's totally right Speaking about that. We don't have too much more time and I frustrated this heck about it But I want to go to the book a little bit more

By the way, everybody should get the book You like listen when you read the book a couple things is you're gonna manage your own life better Lead your own life better And then it'll also be this part of you that you go, man, if you live in a particular country, I live in the US, man, I wish our leaders had more of these characteristics. Man, I wish they had that one thing. You can even think of somebody that if they just had that one difference, how much greater they would have been, their demise was that thing.

You'll see these little pieces in the book. And that could be your demise also when you're reading the book. Ironically, you talk about Queen Elizabeth in the book. Yeah. I just fascinated by the history. I've never spent any time thinking about this woman until obviously late, late, right? Yeah. I've never spent any time thinking about her. And I was sort of fascinated when passing, I'm like, people really made a big deal about this. I've just, maybe I was naive, but you really write about her in the book. What is it that you loved about her so much or admired in her or characteristics you saw in her? I mean, first up, just to think she has the same job

for 70 years. And she shows up every day. There is no honor off the clock. She is the queen. And unlike, say, Marcus, a president who has a lot of power, she has absolutely no power. Her job is her poise and her dignity, what she represents.

And she has the same job for 70 years. She never gives an on the record interview to a reporter. Think about everything she's seen, everything she knows. Think about how wrong the press has been about her. Think about all the things she wants to say and talk about silence. She says nothing because her job is to be impartial. And everything is being done in her name, literally, but she cannot say anything.

But she, she manages to, she every week she meets with the prime minister. I think she's on, she was on her like 14th prime minister. So she, she is, I mean, she's personally trained by Winston Churchill. She knows so much. She is the most qualified. And she can't be like, that's a bad idea. Don't do that. But she can, well, what about this? Have you thought about this? I once heard this, right? So she has to develop how to be assertive without being aggressive.

She has to keep, she has to be above the phrase. She can't be distracted by the noise. And then also, I think what's particularly impressive about her, the monarchy 70 years ago, totally different than it is today, and yet exactly the same, right? And so that's what tradition is. People think tradition is like keeping everything exactly the same. No, it's finding the North Star, the real things,

and then everything else is negotiable. And they have this famous motto inside the Royal Household, which is, things are gonna stay the same, things are gonna have to change. And so she's malleable and adjustable about the things that don't matter. And then very firm and rigid about the things that do matter.

And that's if you wanna last, if you wanna endure, you look at someone who's been in the music business or someone who's been in professional sports or someone who's been business after business. Everything's changed and yet the core things, Jeff Bezos says, you focus on the things that don't change. You gotta know what those are, lock into them, everything else here, what's new, what's best.

That tension to me requires so much self-discipline. Then you wanna talk about physical dismal, I mean, just imagine, like, she's millions of miles, shaken millions of hands. She in seven years fell asleep in public one time. And she was like 85 and it was a lecture about magnets. You know? Is that right?

Just the sheer toughness of this little old lady. It puts all of us to shame. Yeah, I love that you honor. I also love your fascination with history. It's becoming a lost art form. And the more I even reading your book, I'm a history buff too, but even reading your book, there's things I learned in the book and I'm like, yeah, that applies now. And I want to finish on it because I'm a baseball. Okay. I opened it with this, but I want to finish with it. So Babe Ruth is probably the most well-known baseball player of

all time. Maybe the most well-known baseball player of all time. Maybe the most well-known athlete of all time. Certainly pretty darn close. And you kind of in the book do this comparison between Babe Ruth's gluttonous big ass and Lou Gehrig. And for everybody listening, this is May sound obvious, but Lou Gehrig eventually passed from Lou Gehrig's disease or ALS, right? But Lou Gehrig is known as the Iron Horse.

And that's sort of what I knew about him. Is he just played in all these consecutive games? 2100 consecutive games. It's insane. Yeah. I don't think I knew what a great player he was. And I want you to talk about, I'm gonna give one thing a way

because it just blew my mind. This dude's done. It's correct me if I'm wrong. They like X-ray his hands or look at former X-rays. This dude had like 17 fractures in his hands. He broke every one of his fingers and never missed a game. That's insane. The sheer toughness that that requires, just like someone like Queen Elizabeth, to show

up every day, not having an excuse, or even when you have an excuse is immense. I mean, he gets hit in the head in one game before the era of helmets, to the hospital gets an X-ray. You know, he's knocked unconscious. They go, oh, he's going to miss months. Even the picture that him goes, that streaks over. Next game, it's right in there. And he was like, look, I could have taken a day off. It was that if I took that day off, that pitch would change how I play.

Because now I'd be, you know what I mean? He hits three triples that next game because he knows he has to get back in there. He can't let the excuse win. Oh my gosh, bro. And it's his relationship with discomfort and pain that made him different. Also his, he's sort of embodies this, right?

His unwillingness to give into temptation, which Ruth is doing all the time, drink in an eating. He walks into the Yankees dug out and put these fancy cushions on it. He rips them out. He's like cushions the enemy, right? He wants it. He wants to be tough and look, Babe Ruth amazing. But when you read about how Babe Ruth treated his body, you can't end his money. You can't think what could a more disciplined Babe Ruth have done. So I talk about this, I wrote this book, ego is the enemy, it's the same with ego, the same with this stuff.

It's not that people who aren't disciplined are never successful. It's not that people with big egos are never successful. Of course they are. Often because they're extremely talented, often because they're lucky, often because it's not like a death sentence, but it is a ceiling on your potential. Yes. And you know, Babe Ruth's career is cut short because he doesn't take care of himself. Lugarig's career is cut short because of a tragedy.

Yeah. But which one did more in that time that they had, right? And, and, and, unarguably, it's, it's actually Gary. Yes. I didn't know this. You taught me at Babe Ruth calls the shot, hits the home run, turns out Lou Gary hit one that night too, right? Yeah.

He's the workhorse of an athlete, which ultimately, I think over the long term, does more than this sort of, you know. You guys, his work is so damn good. And I hope today was this unbelievable ride for you about your own life and different breakthroughs for you. And last question for you, because I've always wanted to hear your definition of this. The chapter of the book, by the way, the title of the book, rather, everybody is disciplined is destiny, the power of self-control. You've got to get it. It's loaded, low did. So this is a goofy question. I want to finish with it. What actually is discipline?

What is discipline to you? As I'm doing this series on the four virtues, I define courage as the willingness to put your ass on the line for what you believe in. I say discipline is the willingness to keep your ass in line. This is what I know I need to do. I'm going to do it. Wisdom is knowing what to do.

Right? Discipline is the willpower, the strength, the self-control, the self-mastery to do it. Senuka says, he is most powerful who is under his own power. That's what it is. Are you, it's not, hey do I have control over other people? A lot of people have that, but do you have command control over yourself? That's what discipline is. I love it. He says in the very beginning of the book that in order to master anything you must first master yourself. And I believe that's so strongly. And it sounds like you're creeping up on doing that brother. I think you're doing that. And you helped me today. I know you helped millions of other people too. Like this was really good. Like really, really good. And

so go get the book guys. Find Ron, follow Ryan all over social media. Go get my book, go get the power of one more also, you might as well get them both together. I mean, that is the essence of discipline, right? Like your body, the clock, people's expectations, it's, you're done. And you go, I got one more. I can do one more.

I decide. I decide. Dude, this was good today. You're coming back on. I love that. You made the cut, bro. One in a hundred come back on today. You're coming back on. I love that you made the cut. One and a hundred come back on again. You're coming back on again. This is gonna be so good. Hey guys Share this show. We're the number one growing show on the planet because you guys share it and I get people in front of you like Ryan Holiday once a week will only do one a week around here and we get the most out of them and stuff at them that you've never heard before today

Was remarkable. I enjoyed it. Bonus with you. I will be hearing this show back before all of you do, because it was that good I want to hear it twice. So thank you, Ryan. And everybody out there, God bless you, continue to max out your life. Take care.

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