THE ED MYLETT SHOW - The Untold Side of Hobby Lobby’s Success

Episode Date: September 23, 2025

What Kind of Legacy Will You Leave? Most of us are working hard to build our businesses, provide for our families, and maybe even create a little security for the future. But what if the bigger question isn’t about what you leave behind—it’s about what you set in motion? In this conversation with David Green, founder of Hobby Lobby, and Bill High, CEO of The Legacy Stone, we get real about what it takes to live and lead with eternity in mind. These two men are not just business leaders who’ve created billions in value and impact—they’re men who have chosen to orient their lives around family, faith, and generational change. And trust me, the way they’ve done it will challenge you to rethink everything you thought success was supposed to look like. David opens up about starting Hobby Lobby with just a $600 loan and how his focus wasn’t on “exit strategies” or building wealth for wealth’s sake, but on being faithful day by day. Bill shares how losing his father at 12 shaped his entire understanding of legacy—and why waiting until “someday” to invest in your family is a mistake you can’t afford to make. Together, they break down practical principles like creating a family vision, crafting a code of conduct, and the power of storytelling to pass down values for generations. This conversation hit me hard on a personal level. I shared how my own father made one decision to get sober when I was 15, and how that single choice altered the course of my family forever. These stories are proof that it’s never too late to change the trajectory of your life—or your family’s future. Whether you’re a CEO, an entrepreneur, or just someone trying to be more present with your loved ones, you’re going to walk away from this episode with clarity on what matters most. If you’ve ever wondered whether it’s possible to succeed in business without losing sight of your family or your faith, this interview is living proof that you can. And not just that—you must. Key Takeaways: Why legacy isn’t just about what you leave behind, but what you set in motion How to create a family vision, mission, and code of conduct that lasts for generations The power of storytelling to instill values in your children and grandchildren Why financial success alone is never the true measure of wealth How one small, faithful decision can change your family’s trajectory forever This isn’t just a business conversation—it’s a life conversation. One that will inspire you to think bigger, live with intention, and build something that outlasts you. —Max Out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠👉 SUBSCRIBE TO ED'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL NOW 👈⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   → → → CONNECT WITH ED MYLETT ON SOCIAL MEDIA: ← ← ←  ➡️ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠INSTAGRAM⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   ➡️⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠FACEBOOK⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   ➡️ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LINKEDIN⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   ➡️ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  ➡️ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠WEBSITE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This is The Admiral Show. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. So today's one of those days where I sort of sit in awe of the two people I get a chance to share some time with because, you know, in all candor, there are two men that I'd like to be more like and that I aspire to be more like. And the topic of today's show is very, very sensitive, very important to me as well. So first let me tell you what they're here to talk about, which is leaving a lot. a legacy for your family. And they've got a book they've written together called The Legacy Life, leading your family to make a difference for eternity. This is going to be a special show, everybody. And I have two very special men here with me. The first one, I will just tell you that

the people that I admire the most, admire him the most. And I hear his name all the time from the men that I look up to is sort of their role model of how they hope to live their lives. He happens to have found a little company called Hobby Lobby. They've only got about 50,000 employees, about a thousand stores. They've generated billions in revenue. And that's not really the most impressive thing about him. In my world, he is known as the person, you know, he wouldn't tell you this, but the person is probably given the most money to Christian causes individually of anybody on planet

earth right now. And was instrumental in the founding of the Bible app with my friend Craig Groschell and others. And that is David Green. So first, let me welcome David Green to the show. David, thank you for being here. today. Thank you. It's an honor to be here with you. Well, it's my honor. And then sitting with him as I get to read his background, I was even equally blown away, which is Bill High, Bill's a CEO of Legacy Stone. And it's an important company because they're dedicated to building family

legacy, which is what we're going to talk about here today. But he's involved and he's been involved in about, they say, six billion plus dollars and charitable giving over his lifetime through various foundation work. These are just two men who've lived a life that more of us should aspire to live. And so we're going to have a conversation today about building a legacy for your family, building business life and approaching business from that perspective, which you don't hear very much on social media ever. And so you're going to hear a lot about it today from these two men. So Bill High, welcome to the show as well. Great to have you here, sir. Thank you, sir. All right. Here we go, you guys. Let's start out first of all with this whole idea

of legacy. I'm going to challenge you both up front. I think a lot of people that would be listening to go, that's great. I'll get around to it. But right now, I've got to pay some bills and get my company off the ground. Yeah, I think you know that most people think that. I'm curious, David will start with you. When you started Hobby Lobby, I think you took a $600 alone from a family member or something to start it. Were you even at that time thinking about legacy or was it just a day-to-day existence to try to survive? And what would you say to somebody who feels like they're in that mode and you're talking about building the legacy? Yeah, I think you got it. When I was borrowed $600, I was trying to figure out how to

pay it back and that was that took most of my time and attention so i think god has given us i think i know god has given us that he has a plan for our lives and our plan may not just unravel in one year or two years but i think we need to be working towards it and i think in working towards it it just means to be the very best you can sometimes i talk about someone that's flipping hamburgers if that's what you do and do the very very best and in that i think you're going to find out where god wants you You have to follow wherever you are and do the very best you can. And then also ask God to lead you and wherever and whatever he would have you to do. So when I was opening the first door seriously,

I think the only thing I was thinking about is just make it the next day. So when you have $600 and you have a, in fact, we were making frames in our garage for two years before we opened our first store. And our first store was only about 600 square feet, which is size of a living room. And that was right here in Oklahoma in 1972. So our first story was very, very small. I think we did $36,000 from October through December. So that was our start.

It was very, very slow. And to be honest, you got it. I was thinking about just trying to get to the next day. Were you always bold about your faith even in the beginning, David? I'm just curious. No. In fact, I'm ashamed that I wasn't because I've heard people that we're in school. with me. It says, I didn't know you as a Christian. So unfortunately, I was not bold when I was in school

about my faith. And so hopefully I've grown over the years, just like I've grown in terms of business, what we really want to do, what our purpose is. So it's really been over a period of time that hopefully we're closer to the Lord and we think more about him than we did. But I was I was undercover most of the time when I was in high school. And that's not good. But to be honest, that's who I was. I love that answer. Bill, I won't hold this against you, but he's a former attorney, you guys. We won't, we won't use that on him today. But Bill, I'm curious, this idea of legacy, I really prepped for this interview today thinking, just not talked about, if you go to social media right now, entrepreneurship or building a business is about, you know, getting your

Lamborghini and having the boat and short term all the time. And I know for you, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you lost your dad pretty young. 12. I was 12 when he passed. I'm just curious, did that shape this idea for you of family being the primary focus and building a legacy and just your overall thoughts on that? What would you say to somebody who they're not used to this message? Trust me, this is going to be on YouTube and on Apple and all these different platforms.

This is not the message of entrepreneurship or business right now. I'm wondering if that losing your dad so young shaped that foundation for you. what you would say to somebody who's, they don't think about this as business at all. They're thinking about, you know, getting that material good is the first thing they're focused on. Yeah, no question. You're raising so many things in there, Ed. You know, the mindset of the Western business guy today is that we're building to sell so we can go sit on a beach somewhere in many cases. But the idea of build to sustain is totally different. And in my background, because my dad passed away early, the very first thing that hit my heart was really this idea of family

because it goes in a minute. We were on a podcast yesterday with Jenny Yorovich, and she talks about the idea that 75% of your time with your kids will be spent by the time they're 12. So for many of us, we're putting the toothpaste back in the tube because we're too late. You know, you don't head out on a road trip without a map. You know where your destination is. And so, well, we really, David and I really desires that more families, more of these business guys that you're often talking to is they'll start out with a map. And that map is going to have this generational mindset that we're going to invest in our kids in the Jewish world, by the way, you know, they started zero to five. And they told stories and they taught the shamah. Look upwards and then tell stories. And that was zero to five.

There was an intentional education program. They started with a map. And that's what we're really need to give our families, we need to give that to the business people we work with, is that what you're doing today? We tend to wait for the slower day, right? A slower day will come, and then eventually I'll work on these other things. Well, by the time you get there, man, you're too late, some cases. So we've got to start now, and that's some of the mindset shift that I'm really focused on because of what I went through, that loss of the father, the importance to the family hit me early on as a kid this story thing you talk about in the book i don't know that i understand it because you make it a big concept in the book of the fact of telling stories right

give us an application of that what's that look like is there a particular story of a family in the bible that you would tell or maybe tell us or or just overall that concept of storytelling in general being a fundamental part of leaving a legacy because i never even thought about it that way yeah i'll have david talk about this too about what they do on an annual basis They have an annual family celebration. But if you take a look at even just the idea of Passover, Passover in the Bible starts with the youngest child turning to the eldest at the table and saying, tell us the story about how God delivered us.

One of the chapters in the book, we tell stories of families that succeeded. The oldest story, oldest family in the Bible that we know of made it 2,400 years that's still recorded. And the picture of them is sitting around a campfire telling the story of God's deliverance. There's research out there, by the way, on the, if you will, the non-faith side of families that succeed. So set apart the Bible for a moment. But if you're going to succeed as a family, you've got to tell the stories because stories grab the emotion and that you can hold that emotion in your heart, your body for generations. And so we see that time and time again.

I could just kind of tell you all kinds of stories, whether the Bible or historically, of families that do that. One thing, if you did nothing else, sometimes we say, what are the 10 stories that your kids need to know in order for those set of values to continue on from one generation to the next? David, what were you going to say? You know, in Oklahoma City, by the way, we have 46 family members. My wife and I, you know, we have great-grandchildren. children and we're counting almost by the day. So we've, they just keep counting. Okay. So we got a lot of

great grandkids. And so we're all here in Oklahoma City. And I think it's so important. And why are they all here in Oklahoma City? I don't know. So don't ask. But we're all here. We're close by. But I think it's really important for us. And Bill God has started on coming together with what we call our mission vision and our values. And that's this document you see right here. So I think it's one of the things that's helped us hold ourselves together to tell stories, and this is who we are, and who are you? And so what we wanted is to say, our vision and our mission and our values are in this document. And every single one of these have scriptures to back them up.

Sometimes we get groups together. They come in here and we talk to them, and they say, well, has it changed over the years? Well, not if the Bible hasn't changed, you know. So we have scriptures that says, this is why our values are in the values. is knowing God. Our values is living for our family and our values is serving others. And our mission is to love God intimately, live extravagant generosity. Our vision is to go on the adventure of impacting our world for Christ. So I think having something like this for us to have something written that this is who and what we want to be, not that we're perfect at it,

but this is who we want to be. And we come together once a year and we celebrate this and we talk about this particular document. So I think it goes back to what you're talking about in terms of our family and how that we bring it as important in life. You know, we have a lot of co-managers that comes on that's going to be our future managers. We have been open about 40, 50 stores since COVID. It's been about 30 stories a year. So we bring all the co-managers in here. They've all been here and we talk to them about family. We're closed on Sunday because of the family. We're closed at 8 o'clock because of this family. We're only open 66 hours a week because of the family. So we just let them know more important than the business, more important than the business is

their family. We can do business pretty good. Most of us are pretty good at our jobs. And we work really hard on it. But we try to let you need to be intentional about your family. You need to figure out how do you bring them together, how you do the best you can to think about your family. You know, even as Christians, we're not too good at marriage. You know, if you look at the numbers, but why is that? And it's because we're not intentional about it. We're intentional about making money and to do to retire and to do this, this, this, this, which is not important at all compared to our life with the Lord and walking with him. And so this is what we encourage our people to do It doesn't sound like the right thing to do to tell them that it's more important than their job,

but let's face it, it is. And so we want them to know it's okay with us that you give more time to bring in a family together, a marriage together, children that serves the Lord. And this is what we feel like that they need and that we want to help them accomplish that goal. During the Volvo Fall Experience event, discover exceptional offers and thoughtful design that leaves plenty of room for autumn adventures. and see for yourself how Volvo's legendary safety brings peace of mind to every crisp morning commute.

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It's so wonderful. I was thinking, first off, by the way, everybody, it's why I would like you to get the book, the legacy life. You know, usually when people come on, I don't push the book real hard. I'm pushing this book real hard. for y'all one of the reasons is is that ask yourself a question if you're listening to these two men right now what's the vision for your family what's the dream where are you going what are your core

values what's your code of conduct which they also will talk about in a minute as well do you have one for your fan because most of you have your core values or your mission statement for your business but if I was to ask your son what's the vision for your family do you know I'm just thinking when you're talking david I bet if I grabbed one of your grandsons they could give me some of this stuff. And, you know, I'm remiss. I didn't start doing this stuff until my kids were teenagers. I wish I would have raised them with it. I'm asking you guys a hard question. And it's not in the book. I like asking stuff that they're not going to just get in the book. There's a dad listening to this right now who goes, you know what? I've fallen down on the job a little bit. We don't have a vision in our

family. Maybe I haven't led the way I want to. Maybe I've been too focused on business and or maybe in my business i've just been focused on business and i don't create a family environment or a faith-based environment like i know i should and so i'm disqualified from doing that going forward meaning these past ms it's too late yeah already blown it my kids are 12 they're 14 or whatever it is and i just share this with the two of you my dad was an alcoholic and a drug addict when i was a little boy up until i was 15 and our family was very chaotic as a result of that and when i was 15 my dad made one decision that changed our family forever. And that was that he was going to really try to go get sober. In one decision, he changed our family. When my dad made the decision, I said, dad, what's going to be any

different this time? You've tried to quit drinking so many times. And he gave me, he told me that the difference this time was that he was going to do it because he loved his family so much. And he said, the second thing is I found somebody I'm going to do it with. And I said, that's great, dad. Someone's helping you. Who is that? And he said, Jesus. And that was the first time my dad really ever talked about God. We'd got up. Yeah. You talked.

And my dad stayed sober the rest of his life. And I believe one of the reasons I'm sitting here is my father made that one decision. He wasn't too late. He wasn't disqualified. And as he got older, he had such rich relationships with his granddaughters and his grandsons and his children. And that one decision changed it. I just wonder if either one of you would speak to that to somebody who's listening to

going, I've already blown it. Or you don't know about this sin I have or this mistake I've made. I can't build a legacy in my family. I've probably already screwed it up. Or I come from a long line of screw-ups in my family. Or maybe they're not even a person of faith, David, listening to this. What would you say to that person listening to that or thinking those thoughts right now? Yeah, I'm going to hand that off to Bill, but I really think that it's, you know, like your dad, it wasn't too late.

And we need to know it's not too late. God loves us where we are. He's going to take us where we are. Think about the thief on the cross. He says, you're going to be with me in heaven. It wasn't even too late for him. So it's not too late. And I think I want to hand this to Bill because he can do a better job than I can on this one.

Well, I would say David's the testimony of this very idea because if you look at his own family, his mom and dad were pastors of small churches. And they might have been able to say, gosh, what have we done here? We never built anything. And I think that's where you're going, Ed, is this idea is that all you need to do is show up today and be faithful to what God's called you to do. Love him and love people. If you'll do that today and then make the decision tomorrow and the next day and the next day, that little one degree change will make a difference for generations to come that you can't even imagine or envision. And it may not

even fully show up in your own lifetime, but it will. Faithful today makes a difference for generations to come. There is no question about it. I think about in the scriptures, by the way, that story, the famous story of Joseph, you know, and we read that story, and we think Joseph's such a great hero. He gets, you know, betrayed by his brothers. He's thrown into prison and a couple times, and he must have been really low, but it's not just about how Joseph's a hero. It's actually this idea about how God brings together a family after 20 years, after 20 years, and says, you know what, it's all okay, and I'm going to bring it back together. And that's God's story. He redeems and he restores, but we have to be faithful today.

Hmm. Hmm. I like asking hard stuff, so you're just making me think as you're talking. David, you will both of you, Bill as well, you both become tremendously financially successful. I think that's an understatement. There's a hard question. Is that part of the responsibility of a leader of a family, is to make sure their family. is financially safe and secure? How much of the role of a provider do you think in a family? You know, we're talking about legacy and eternity here. There's also the day-to-day existence of a family

and making sure they live in a safe place. And they've got to, I just wonder in your own life where that ranks. You know, is it, is it a zero or is it, is it important? I think it's important to the Lord that he supplies. You need to have something to eat. There is something you need. But when I think about finance, I think about my mother and father. My father never pastor to church over a hundred.

And there was six children. Now, you do the math on that, okay? But I think about when my mother passed away. My mother passed away. And I tell people she was the most wealthy person I ever knew because she died with a tremendous relationship with the Lord, a tremendous prayer life, six children that served the Lord, a marriage that lasted for life. How in the world? And by the way, she wanted nothing this world had, absolutely nothing.

I never heard her say, well, I wished I had something. So my mother was rich. So how can we be rich? Sometimes it's just not by wanting more stuff because we think that's what's going to make us happy. Sometimes this is what we're thinking. So I think the fact that God has blessed us financially just has to do with what he wants us to do in our purpose. Some other people's purpose, like my mother and father, that wasn't their purpose. their purpose wasn't necessarily to finance the museum, the Bible Museum, as an example, or whatever.

So God has a purpose in our life and finance is part of that purpose, but in a lot of our lives, it's not. But I think we can really get messed up with wanting more and more and more. But God wants us to eat. There's a certain amount that he wants us to have, but sometimes we want more than what he wants us to have. And so that's what's important for us in our business is to first know that everything belongs to him. Hobby Lobby belongs to God, not because I say so, because God's word says so, our talent, everything we have belongs to God. So no one in our family has ever gotten a dollar from Hobby Lobby that they didn't earn. So really important to us is a word called earn.

So every one of us, we sit together and we say, you have this position so you sure to earn X. and that's where the monies that comes for our family is money that's earned. So that's really important for us is to get what you earn and not what you didn't earn. Now, we started giving money to family members, the 46 of us, because of whatever. We decide there's enough money to go around. We would actually ruin lives instead of help lives. I think finance can really be a huge negative in anybody's life. But when it's given to God, and we know that we're stewards and not a lot,

owners and we know that we're only stewards of what God has blessed us with. So I don't think it's real important for us to have a lot. My mother and dad didn't. And they lived a good life and they loved the Lord and God took care of them. I love this. Oh, hi, buddy. Who's the best? You are. I wish I could spend all day with you instead. Uh, Dave, you're off mute. Hey, happens to the best of us. Enjoy some goldfish cheddar crackers. Goldfish have short memories. Be like goldfish. That sounds like legacy in motion to me,

which I know what it is from reading the book, but Bill, I'd like you to talk a little bit about that. Right here, guys, legacy in motion, this might be something that you'll carry with you a long, long time, if not forever, just this entire thought process and concept. Yeah, sometimes we hear that idea, Ed, you're tracking is that we think legacy is what we leave behind in terms of our wills and trusts,

and we enrich our kids. it becomes a financial windfall. And man, if that's all it is, we're in deep trouble. So we try to reframe that definition of legacy is what you set in motion. Because what we're all looking for, if we believe in the hope of heaven someday, we'll be there and there'll be a great reunion, friends, family, people that we didn't know. Like David said, there might be people who show up and say, man, I didn't know you were here, you know, or people likewise that were like, I didn't know you were going to be. But it's going to be a tremendous reunion. And that's, where all those things that God put in our hand, we're going to get to see that. And that's what

we're setting in motion. It's that day where the story all comes like, like, wow, what a cool thing. And that's really sitting with me these days, not only just being around David, but all the families that we work with, is we're wanting them to make that deposit for that day up ahead. Oh, I love that. David, you have a big life. It's a big life. When you run a company, the size and scope of Hobby Lobby and all of the growth of it, the day-to-day running of it, all the people you've got to talk to, all the philanthropic work you've done, all the work for the kingdom you've done, it's easy. I just know there's a lot of people listening.

They're driving in their car right now, and they're going, I am not as present with my family as I need to be. I'm so busy. I've got 100 emails to return, 300 text messages. I've got 19 employees. And then I look at you and I think, at least from all reports from our friends that you have lived this life, how did you do it? Was there a strategy or did you not always do it? You know, running a company that magnitude. I've always wanted this myself. I have businesses. And sometimes I think to myself, am I as present as I could be with my family? I don't mean just physically present. I mean when I'm there, am I actually there if you know what I'm talking about, right? Like my mind in my heart, my spirit is with, them when I'm with them. Did you struggle with that with what I would consider to be a big life? And if you did, how did you navigate that part of your life? You're a busy man.

Well, I think part of it is there's a lot in the answer you're, well, you're asking me, well, one of it is be a pretty good delegator. So I'm a pretty good delegator. And by the way, when you go from $600 to $8 billion, there's a lot of processes in that. There's a, you got to give up. You got to give up, you got to give up, you got to give up. And most of the time when I give up something that's done better than when I had it. So God has blessed us with tremendous people. So we have people in a legal group. We have an IT group, people that ship goods to the stores.

We have over 200 trailers leaving here every day. So there's a lot going on here. But the key for me, as far as the business, as we've grown, it seems to be easier as you get bigger if you're a good delegator. and find the right people. So God has given us the right people. If I retire tomorrow, I'm not worried. There's someone that can take my place. I'm only here because I need a job.

Because when they tell me I need to go home, I'm going to be a greeter at Walmart. I'm going to go to work every day. One of the things, by the way, that you can depend too much on that stupid phone. I didn't even have a phone until about a year ago. I just had a Mypad. And so I operated with MyPad running this company.

This little book right here, and everything is in it, by the way. Every one of my kids is named in there, my grandkids, my great-grandkids. Every restaurant that's in town that I go to is in here, so I know where to eat. Every one of my buyers that I work with is in here. Every phone number is in here. By the way, I just think that your phone can run your life, and I don't have a phone that runs my life. And so I think that's important. How do you run your life?

Are you going to let something like a phone? and I think it runs a lot of people of life. And so I've been really careful about not letting that happen. And as I was raising my kids, we always, we went to 44 states in an old Coleman pop-up trailer because we didn't have a lot of money when we grew up. And my kids, we were small. And that's good, but we still had time together to go to K-O-8 campgrounds,

go to 44 states, go skiing twice a year. So I think it was real important for me to have family before work. So even though God has built this business, and allowed me to build over a thousand stories. I don't think I've done it with neglecting my family. And so that is so important. So I think it's just getting your priorities set, and we have been so much for the family.

And that's why we even tell our co-managers, that's more important than Hobby Lobby. And I know we're not supposed to do that, but we know that we need to do that. David, do you mind telling them? Just because a lot of these people listen to this on audio, and he has one heck of a head of hair, so he can hide this. But David, tell him how old you are, just so they know that you have this

job and you sound like you sound, if you don't mind sharing with them. Well, I'm 83 and I'm hanging on here pretty good. I have someone that can take my place, by the way, because it would be terrible if not. That's what I tell all of my officers. I say, if I need you, I don't need you. They know what I mean. They mean that I don't want a gun to my head because I need you. No, you have someone that's sitting on, that can take your place. So God has given us that kind of an, organization to where we have a very, very strong organization. God has given us great people and even someone to follow me, but I'm not ready to retire and I'm not going to retire. I've asked God, you know, the Bible says, if you love the Lord, you'll give you the desires of your heart.

And I say, the desire is my heart, Lord, take me while I'm still working. And so that's what I think he will do. I think he'll give me that desire. There's this dominant thing now in business, which is you start something to sell at an accident. That's just what, this is what it's become. It's just, it's, it's amazing to me that this idea of every business is supposed to be sold. You're supposed to exit everything that you have. By the way, that makes you do very short-term things when you're running a business to sell it. And one of the things you talk about in the book, Bill, I'll let you kind of hit two things at once and bring them together. One is code of conduct, which is we're sort of down that road a little bit, having a personal code of conduct.

And the other one is just literally being a legacy long-term thinker and not a short-term thinker. Not only is it a better way to live your life, it's a better way to run a business as well. So try to bring those two things together for us just because in the interest of time, I want to make sure that everyone hears both those parts of the book because the Code of Conduct was huge for me. The long-term business stuff, no one talks about anymore. It's not in vogue to have a business for a long time. Yeah. And let's start, by the way, with that long-term business thinking first, and then we'll come back to the Code of Conduct.

But we've lost this in America in the Western world. But if you go around to other parts of the world, this is where your eyes get open. And you see businesses that have been around for a thousand years. The oldest family-owned business was a construction company in Japan that made it about 1,400 years. Second oldest family-owned business is now in the 40th some generation. It's a hotel in Japan. Switzerland has a lot of family-owned business. Germany has some long-term family-owned businesses.

There are certain businesses. They're going to last a long time, agriculture, guns, wine, those kind of businesses. There are certain businesses that last a long time. And why wouldn't you think on a generational basis? Because then you keep employing people. You keep changing the communities, the giving that you do. It's a powerful thing when a business sustains itself. And that's a different way.

but it's powerful when you think that way. But part of that generational nature then is if you think about how do I govern something that's going to last a thousand years, the Japanese company, the construction company, in the 16th generation, they came up with their code, their creed, how they operated. They've been developing over that time, but they finally decided to write it down in the 16th generation. It contains certain rules of behavior, which is. be honest, don't be, think too highly of yourself, you know, treat people with kindness and humility. But by having the code, what it does is it just gives you a point of accountability. My wife and I have our own personal code. It's pretty short and simple. But sometimes she can call me on it, say, hey, you're not living according to the code. And then I've got to go,

yeah, you're right. And then I come back to the table. And that's the power of having a code. you know i uh just started after reading your book my kids were home for fourth of july and we've had a vision of our family and a dream and kind of our values but we didn't have a code of conduct and i just did that with my kids and my mine are 23 and 22 this month and uh they were proud of it you know they were proud of it when we were done it was it kind of pulled the whole thing together it almost was the the missing piece of the puzzle almost for our family. And what you just said is really accurate. About two weeks later, my son called me out on not being by the code on something that I had said. And I liked it because it told me,

you know what it said to me that for some reason I left tomorrow, I had left my, excuse me, it makes me emotional. If I had, if I left tomorrow that maybe this grandson that I have never met that isn't even born yet, he'll have that. And when you start thinking that way about your family, it becomes such a beautiful experience to know that what the two of you are writing about, I'm going to have great grand, grandchildren, potentially I'll never meet, but will be the benefactors of some of this generational change in our family. And David, I mentioned your age earlier. So 35 or 40 years from now, when you're down to your last few days, I'm curious about two things. I've always wanted to ask Christian men that I admire a couple things. Is there anything at your

funeral someday that you would hope was said about you or do you not care and secondly i had a friend of mine a few weeks ago at the life surge group that i was telling you about off camera and i'd given a i guess a decent speech and i'll probably never delete this voicemail but in the voicemail he just said he just wanted you to know you did a terrific job or whatever and i didn't really think i did a very good job but certainly the holy spirit was present that day i definitely know that but he said something to me that i'd never even thought of before he goes you know you can't earn your way in to heaven, but you know what, you added a few people to the line that'll thank you when you get there. I wonder if you ever think about that. Do you believe in that? I know we talked about,

you know, reconvening with our family when we get there, but does that matter to you? That there's going to be a line of people, David, in your case, my gosh, how long that line would be. Do you think about those things? Do you think about your funeral? Do you think about that line in heaven? Is it not even a thought of yours? Just one be in your head a little bit. Yeah. I don't think I've ever thought in terms about what's going to happen in heaven. and I know it's going to be great. And so I'm good with that. But I do think about what is my purpose.

And I think my purpose is to first is to think about my family and have a family that's with me there. I don't want my family missing. And so family has been and has always been very, very important to me. And so I want that to be there. And as I said earlier, that when Barbara and I got married, we had three things that we wanted to do. We said we want to have a marriage that last and then a good marriage that last for. forever, we want our children in heaven, and whatever God gives me to do, whatever, I want to do good at it. But then, since then, we have added the fact we want our grandchildren, our great

grandchildren, and then we added, we want, and this has taken years. It wasn't when I first started with $600, but we want to take as many people with as we can. So what I want to be said is this person did the very best they can to have a family that's going to be in heaven and to tell as many people on this planet as they possibly can for as long as they can about this good news because we have the greatest love story ever told and we want to continue to tell it and that's why we're involved in the ministries that are involved in is to tell people about Jesus and so that's what I would like to be said about me that I've done all that I can to tell the good news to the world all you listen if you've ever wondered I don't know why I'm getting so joked up but um so

many of you are wondering, you know, you're a person of faith and somehow you thought you had to keep that part of your life quiet in your business or on the back burner. And this man's built one of the most, literally one of the great American business stories of the last century. And I want you to hear the words he's using, what his mindset has been, the difference he's made for families. It's moving for me. I want to ask you both a hard question at the end. I get asked it a lot. I'm curious as to what your answer would be. Have either of you ever gone through a time in your life where you doubted your faith? You questioned it. It was weaker than it made me another given time. And what would you say to someone listening today who's got some doubts? I have a dear friend

who their husband just passed with two little babies at home, 18 months and six months. She said to me, I'm mad at God, but I guess that's a good thing because at least I guess that means I still believe he's there. But I'm tinkering on the edge, Ed. And I think there are people listening to this today that would look to you two men who have these stalwarts for the kingdom in many people's eyes. Maybe they got a little doubt. You know, maybe they wonder if you've ever had any. And I wonder what your answers would both be. And I'd like you both to answer it.

And that'd be kind of my last question. I guess, Bill, you're welcome to go first. Yeah, I'll jump in. And, and, Ed, it was when my dad passed away. I was 12. And he'd gone through a period of cancer. He wasn't a great father. He was an alcoholic, the whole bit.

And yet, even with the loss of my father, I remember the day that I found out that he passed away. I had to go outside. We back at where we live, we were living out in the country, so you bird's trash. But we were cleaning up the house. And in that moment, when it all hit me that he was gone, the question that I asked in that moment, horrible moment, why God, why did you take my earthly father? In that moment, I just wept. I could not control it. And that was the question in my life. And so it literally, I remember I was teetering on the edge. I was a new believer at that point. We didn't grow up. up in a family of faith, but I was teetering on the edge of how could this loving God take my earthly father? I wrestled with that question for about six or seven years. He died a week before Christmas. Christmas wasn't much that year. And so it was just this horrible period of time that I went through. And ultimately, over time, there's a couple answers that came out of

that. And one of the answers that came out of it was first and foremost is that, you know, what, it's okay. And I don't have to understand, but I've got to keep believing. I've got to keep believing because in time, God will bring it together. And after about six or seven years, I actually started journaling as a 12-year-old, and I would journal every year at Christmas. And I would reflect back on that loss. And the answer that God gave me finally after six or seven years, and I do believe that it'll always give you the answer. But the answer for me was, you know what? I exercise a severe mercy in your life because I want you to understand that it is more important that you know your heavenly father than your earthly father. You'll never

know your earthly father completely, but you can know me completely. So that's what I say. to folks listening to this is hang in there. God will bring you to that place because he wants you, he wants you to know him. Amen. That's beautiful. I'm so glad I asked you. David, what about you? Yeah, I think that we all sometimes come to the point that we just don't understand. We just really don't understand. And I think for me, what helps me is the book of Job. You know, I think about what Job and how what he lost and how he though you forsake you know i'm not going to say forsake god i don't want to no matter what happens and i think that was his attitude no question about it that god is god he is first you have to know he created everything and who he is and i think once you understand it helps

you to walk with him in times that are very very difficult because it can be very very difficult for us that sometimes why this and why that god but i think it helps us even to read job and see how he handled what happened to him, what can happen to us any worse than what happened to Job. So hopefully that we learn from that and we just use him as an example to continue to look to Jesus and our father and our creator as one that we just are not, we weren't born to understand everything. And I don't think any of us understand everything, but we do understand he's our creator, he loves us and he cares for us. And so we have to walk through those times, all of us because we all, I think, at some point in our lives are going to have some big questions

like the mother you just talked about. But God is there for us. He loves us. And sometimes looking back on those things, we understand it. But during the time we don't, but sometimes looking back a few years later, we can understand what happened. And my brothers and sisters, the youngest, the one that was the most spiritual God took first. So I think he takes the best first. That's just a, that's just just how I, hey, I may be wrong, but he's going to take me last of the six kids, but I was going to say, that means he'll be here a while. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

So I know, God has, he tells us that there's a lot of promises in the book, and one of them is that he will take us at some point. We all were going to have the day, and hopefully it's a good day that we've served him and we're with him for the rest of our duration. This is such a great conversation. Will you too please write another book so we can do this again? We're just let's just do this again. Yeah, thank you.

We'll do it. You want to do it. I want to tell you one thing. I just want you to both know. I admire you so much. And you don't need to hear this. You've both heard it a lot in your life. You're important.

And you're important because there's a lot of people out there like me that need to know that this type of life is possible. and that there are people living that type of a life and that there's something to look forward to not only on this earth obviously this whole conversation has been about what we really get to look forward to which is eternity but i just want you to know that the two of you move me and i can tell you that i know you hear it a lot but the people that i am around all the time admire the two of you so highly and now i understand why getting the chance to meet the two of you and so all of you all if you enjoyed this conversation today i would ask you to please share this episode with anybody

that you love or care about anybody going through a difficult time anybody in any type of turmoil anybody that anybody that's anybody question that has a family and then go get the book the legacy life leading your family to make a difference for eternity gentlemen thank you it was extraordinary thank you appreciate it god bless you everybody max out this is the edmunds show Thank you.