THE ED MYLETT SHOW - Winning is EVERYTHING w/ Tim Grover

Episode Date: May 18, 2021

When the BEST ATHLETES in the world want to train with the BEST TRAINER in the world, they work out with Tim Grover. You want to know what it’s like to train MICHAEL JORDAN and KOBE BRYANT? You want to know what sets them and other next-level performers apart from high achievers with just as many gifts and talents? Tim Grover has the ANSWERS. Tim founded ATTACK Athletics, Inc. in 1989 and since that time, he has worked with hundreds of NFL, MLB, NBA, and Olympic athletes including Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. He is also the best-selling author of RELENTLESS: From Good to Great to Unstoppable, JUMP ATTACK, and his newly released book, W1NNING. Widely considered the preeminent authority on the science and art of physical and mental dominance, Tim is a highly sought-after keynote speaker around the world and a consultant to top business leaders, athletes, and elite achievers in every area. Tim is one of my oldest and dearest friends so it was easy to get him to talk about the nature of FAME, what it takes to be the absolute best, GRIT VS. GLAMOUR, and why it’s not necessarily easy when you do reach the top. Tim is also uniquely qualified to tell stories about how Kobe lived his life and what you can take from his MAMBA MENTALITY. We had a lot of good laughs but we also covered some tough things too. Tim shares how he felt when he found out Kobe was gone, why it’s lonely when you’re ultra-successful, and how to CONQUER your doubts, fears, and flaws and turn them into mentally DOMINANT advantages. Straight up, this is HONEST talk from the best in the business. Tim Grover has been there and he’s got WISDOM and STORIES you won’t want to miss. 👉 SUBSCRIBE TO ED'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL NOW 👈  → → → CONNECT WITH ED MYLETT ON SOCIAL MEDIA: ← ← ← ▶︎ INSTAGRAM ▶︎ FACEBOOK  ▶︎ LINKEDIN ▶︎ TWITTER ▶︎ WEBSITE

This is the Ed Milach Show. Welcome back to Max out everybody. Today I have a great friend to share some time with. We're also going to share some tequila together today throughout the show. But this is one of my best friends. This is somebody that, like here's what I was saying, when I think of man, if you look up man in the dictionary, I see Tim Grover. He's a good man. He's a real man. He's got an unbelievable experience of his life, his first book or lent, relentless is sold nearly a million copies, and he's got a new book out winning,

which I think is even better. And that's saying a lot, all you know, top five books of all time, I recommend, relentless is on that list, and I'm telling you, I think this book is even better, because it's about flat out to the point about what we all want to do in our life, which is winning, and he's an expert on it.

So Tim Grover, welcome back to the show, brother. Thank you so much. Cheers. You know what, I can end the show, brother. Thank you so much. Cheers. You know what? I can end the show right there. I'll be like, well, thank you, Malay. Well, you know what I mean it, so. That's what you need about it.

That's why I said I can end the show right there, because you don't give accolades out very easily. I don't either. I know you do. And they're very difficult for both of us to accept. I see it on your face, I don't. And they're very difficult for both of us to accept. I see it on your face. That's very difficult. I love you, brother. Well, we got a lot to talk about today. Here's the great thing. There doesn't need to be any intro because people find out you and I are doing this together. Like they're already sharing the show from like one minute into it. Everyone

on the planet's like sharing this thing. So I love this topic. But you've been as most of you know, if you don't know, Tim's been instrumental in a lot of winning in his life with a lot of different people. Obviously, probably best known for your work with Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, and you start out the book. I read the book, Cover 2 Cover in one setting. I told you this. I read every single word of it.

Which then surprised me. Which we knew you would. Well, it's preparation. It preparation, and by the way, it was just good. I'm learning, right? I'm learning. But beginning of the book, guys, this is unbelievable story about your last conversation with Kobe Bryant, just your relationship with him,

because I think a winner I do think of Kobe and MJ 11 championships between them. Talk everybody a little bit about that conversation. You know, Kobe and I, we text off and he was no longer playing back. He was no longer playing basketball. He had moved into the business world. Already won an Oscar, wrote an amazing children's book. And we text back and forth.

We tried to see each other. He was busy. I was busy and say, how you doing? He'd be, I'm good. How you doing? I'm chasing the next win. He's chasing the next win. And we were going to get together.

The All-Star game was going to be in Chicago. And our plan was he was going to come in town to support and some business stuff and so forth. So we had planned to get together. And he said, he'll text me when I'm in town. I said, hey, I'm not going anywhere. And. Sorry, brother. He said he'll text me when I'm in town. I said, hey, I'm not going anywhere. And...

Sorry, brother. I'm the only guy who gets Tim Grover to cry on the show. You know. You're good. It never happened. Yeah. It never happened. He said something to you at the end of that conversation too, right about It's about winning or I'm gonna keep winning or something like that or actually chasing the next one chasing the next one

Chasing the next one. What was it like for you Tim? Because obviously the emotion on your faces. This is not Tim You're not a you're not a cryer. No what? I'm curious what when you heard the news originally, by the way, I was with him the week before. Is that crazy? I'll have to tell you that in a minute. But did you just not believe it? Or was it just like the breath left your body?

So what happened was, you know, I get some information, some I shoot, some I text up, like all fake news. This is not true. This is not true. And then more media comes in, more people that were really close to him, like out in the LA area and so forth, that, hey, I just want to let you know that this is, and I was like, it can't be. It can't be.

It didn't hit me until like three days later, really. Three days. I was just like, literally sleeping. And I got up in a middle of the night, and I was just like, he's gone. Cause you just didn't wanna believe it. You just didn't wanna believe it. Do you think, obviously you being such a close confidant

of his, and I get what you mean like time happens in life You don't text in every single day. You're both busy guys But you don't have to when you're great friends you and I even we text a lot But even we don't for a month or two. It's like right right back personal right never personal like you're busy Hey, your success comes in send your thumbs up everybody You don't have to text anybody when they know that you're actually You don't have to text anybody when they know that you're actually Excited for every when they get and every when that you get right like they they already know you they already know you're there for now When they do something exceptional. You're like hey, I just saw what you did or something funny

But yeah exactly I think something with him like because it grips so many people are even basketball fans I think it's when someone lives So full out that when they're no longer living the impact of that passing is greater for some reason. You know, he was so alive. So to make the transition from winning on the basketball court, winning in the business environment, and then he got a chance to see, you know, when he was no longer that basketball put out close, he was with his family, how he

supported everyone, his daughter's basketball games and the volleyball games and everything and it was just like, he was a much approachable person. Everybody used to see this rigid individual on the court and he was so much me, was smiling and he was talking to other players and so forth. I always say that his next move, his next win was, he had two things he wanted to do. And I have no proof of this, but just knowing his mentality. One was he wanted his daughter to be the first female

to play in the NBA. No kidding. the WMBA the NBA. Wow That's what he was getting that's what he was getting ready for and the second one was like he was like I already own LA from a basketball standpoint. Mm-hmm. I Want to race the basketball thing. I want to own that way. No kidding. He was that driven to continue to win. Yes. Which is a theme in the book. See, I'm going to tell you, you'd be proud of them. By the way, because I know you, there's intermittent.

And I did not know Kobe. Well, but our daughters played in the same volleyball league. So the week before he passed, we were in the same gym. I remember you telling this story. Yeah, three. And ends up, these top volleyball tournaments are long. As you know, being a volleyball player right now. But anyway, long story short, there's three dads left.

It's almost 10 o'clock at night. Left him as Jim, me, him, and another dude who's a good friend of mine. And it was just striking for me. I watch this. It's the black mom. A man's dude is a killer, right? But I watched him and I have no idea why. It's like really struck me.

I'm always evaluating him. You and I talk about it. Yeah. Am I a good dad? How's your daughter? You struck me. I'm always evaluating him. You and I talk about it. Yeah. Am I a good dad? How's your daughter? You know, like we're always evaluating these things. And I watched him other end of the gym, watching with his daughter and he's carrying the baby in his one arm and just the game was over.

And he was like kind of just caressing his other daughter's back just watching. And I remember literally going, I don't hug Bella enough. Like I don't hug her enough, you know? And he was such, I mean, because he's a man, he's a flawed man, he's the guy he really changed. That's something to be so proud of. Anyway, long story short, because to me that's winning. Winning is improvement, winning is growing,

winning is ultimately, he was a better man on his last day than he was in the middle of his career. Correct. And when you said flawed, everybody thinks of flawed as a negative. We're all flawed. We are all flawed, except it, use it, learn from it, and be like, okay, this is a who I am, this is who I am, I'm not trying to be somebody else, which your flaws that makes you exceptional, that will make you different.

That's what allows you to win where other people don't want to win. There's a people that can say, hey, we're flawed. We've both wrote that solid books. And people won't know this about it. They know this about me, but you shared this when we were at Arate's Cinnacate one time.

You can't spell. That's totally true. And I can't eat. That's such a great point. Those are our flaws and what do we do? We just laugh at it. And we write best-selling books. Yeah, we laugh at it.

I never even thought of that. We laugh at it. I got knocked out in a spelling bee, which is in the book. And the word they asked me to spell was ham. I'm crying. That's so awesome, dude. That's so awesome. It's so awesome.

I'm crying. So you cried on sad stuff, I cried on first. I just, yeah, I think about it, man, like, do you say something in the book? There's all these lessons, and they're all listed like as number one, which I like too. He's like, hey, there's not 21, there's not 28, there's like, there's just an unlimited list of things.

Yes. Compiled on this book and winning, and it made me think of Kobe because, you know, when he walked out of the gym that day, I've said this to you too, but he had six days left to live. And I just, you know, what if the world would have, if you could just have a whisper when he got into that car with his family that I, Kobe, six days left to live. Yeah.

Three days later, Kobe, three more days. Three more days. That's Saturday prior. Kobe, one day left. You know, and the one thing I do feel like about people that win is in the book, because Kobe was doing this to the very end. You talk about the sprint versus marathon thing on winning. Just talk about that, because I think Kobe did that till the right in

the last moment. Right at the end. Kobe had this great line that he used all the time. He goes, rest at the end, not in the middle. Rest at the end, not in the middle. So to me, life and winning is a bunch of sprints within a marathon. It's a fact. Yeah, a bunch of sprints within a marathon. And you can't see the end line. Like in a marathon, you know where the end line is. And winning that win, that race may have an end line, but there's another start line right after it. For people that are really driven. And this is not about money, and this is not about fame.

This is about, you could be winning as a school teacher. You could be winning as an entrepreneur. You could be winning in business. You could be winning as an athlete, as a waiter, whatever it is, a waitress, whatever it is. It's that every single time you sprint to that finish line. There's another start line that's coming and that's why it never ends. It's a marathon that just keeps going, going, and going. And I try to tell people, listen,

I'm not an avid runner. I used to be with my much younger days, not avid. I used to enjoy it. You see the times of the best marathon, they're running in safe. In safe. In safe. They're basically sprinting. They're basically sprinting.

They are sprinting. I think it's one of the things to him that you say in the book that I think is like super profound. I think a lot of people think there's some pacing to winning, but the truth is there's not really pacing is there. The best are full speed, knowing it's a long race, but there's only really one gear for them. Or am I wrong about that? No, no, you're absolutely right. But everyone looks at the physical condition. Are you mentally prepared to sprint every single day?

Are you mentally prepared to sprint every single day? And for how long? Because somebody else is sprinting. You don't want them to get what should be your win ends up being somebody else's win. And everyone says hard work. Now we'll get you closer to that way. How many individuals have you known that you've outworked and they got that win? Yeah, right. Winning has no loyalty to you. It has no loyalty to me. It has no loyalty to anybody. You can outwork somebody, you can outstud them. You can do all these different things. Yeah. You can apply for a job and

somebody who's less qualified ends up getting that job. So when he gets no loyalty to you, this is where the book is so I call it like hard core because that's your style too. It's like, look, there's so many things in the book where you talk like that about, you know, pay, listen, winning doesn't care about you. Winning will lift you up and then slap you back down again, right? There's all of these unbelievable, and I think as somebody who wants to win more, I've done some winning who wants to win more, when you read it, if you've had any wins in your life, confirmation of truth, when you read something

that you know is true, it just instantly sits on you as a fact, right? And so, here's one of the things you say in the book, you say, oh man, all over the book, I'm highlighting, right, stuff down. For people I know, for myself, I read this to Max last night about 1 a.m. he goes down, he goes, I said, wake up, I'm reading Grover's book,

it's like bring it back with you tonight, which I'm going to do. You're giving this one. OK, I will. Give him the clean one. Thank you. Winning requires you to be different and different scares people.

So if you're worried about what others will say, the long-term effects, the sacrifices you make, the sleep you lose, your family being angry, I can't help you with that. There's nothing quote typical about lifestyle and choices you have to make. Winning is an inside, winning is inside all of us, but for most, that's where it will stay. Trapped under a lifetime of fear and worry in doubt.

The race to speak of the sprint, to greatness has no rules to protect you. Nothing says you're going to lose. You're going to get, you're not going to get, nothing says you're not going to lose. Nothing says you're not going to get hurt. You're not going to do all this work for nothing. There's no guarantee it'll be fair Most likely it will not be fair. You'll lose at the buzzer You lose to someone who didn't work as hard as you did you lose on a bad call or a bad place someone else I'll get the job a pandemic will wipe out your season your bank account your career yet the prize at the end of that race remains so compelling, so addictive,

so gorgeous, we keep running and stumbling and sacrificing and competing to catch it. It's exactly what you're talking about, right? It's exactly what I'm talking about. You just, I couldn't describe it any other way. You just look at it. It's not, everybody said, how many times you've heard it? It's not fair, it's not supposed to be fair. It's not supposed to be fair. Winning is not supposed to be fair. Life is not fair. There's nothing that's gonna guarantee you that win.

It's, but the only thing that's gonna guarantee you that loss is if you don't get in this race. How many people, and you talk about this all the time about the fears and the emotions and it like, you know, just getting, just going for it, just like here it is. Look at yourself. You move three different times in,

you probably the last six months for whatever reasons you've had, all right. And you've literally packed up and moved, like here I'm going, here I'm going, here. You got people that won't move themselves out of a chair and you've literally moved families, lives, and there's literally a fear behind every single one of those, but there was no doubt.

Right, that's really well said. There was no doubt. That's really what you've done. And everything that I've done, there's always been a little fear. And the fear is what allows us to be like, you know what, I'm going to throw myself over the elge. I'm going to do this, but I have no doubt of what the end result is going to be. It's so amazing.

He says, this is a group of guys influencers, one of them you were with this morning, about four weeks ago. I kind of went around the table like, what moves you? And when guys like, hey, my dreams, you know, my confidence, my this. And so it got to me, and I think probably at that, well, anyway, I'll just say that at that table, I kind of, I just say, hey, I'll be honest with you. I'm still afraid. I'm still afraid.

They're like, you're afraid? You got this? You got that? I said, no, man, I'm still afraid. And it's a real afraid. It's not something I'm trying to conjure up. It's like a real afraid that I have. However, I actually think successful people have this really unique nuance of like tons

of self-confidence combined with enough humility to want to keep working and learning. It's a really unique look. We both know people that are super confident, but don't have that dose of humility where they want to work hard and want to be coached, right? And then you also have the people with all the humility in the world, but they don't have the confidence and they're not gonna win either, right?

You have, you coach people at all different levels. Your most successful people are your most coachable. A fact. A fact. What about when you train Kobe, you say something to the book, like when you first met him, the first workouts or whatever, like he didn't want you to make it

easy on him. He had no expectation. No, right? I mean just like hey listen and the thing that he said was unique about this. Well we're starting to work out one of the reporters asked him said oh you hired Tim Grover Michael's Michael's friend he goes well what do you what do you how do you feel about that? Kobe, and I'm gonna use a little language here. And he goes, I don't know, he ain't done shit for me. He goes, I'm not gonna judge him by what he did last time. I wanna know what he's done, what he's done for me. We relish that.

Yeah, you, do you relish what Jordan told him about you? Oh, yes. Tell him, you, okay, sell the language. Remember what Jordan said about you to him? Yeah, so he just said. Kobe asked him, what about this this guy. What about he goes. He really knows his stuff, but he goes, he's the biggest asshole you'll ever meet. It's a great compliment, right? It's a great compliment. It's a great compliment because how many people when they when they meet winners. Yep. when they meet winners, fold.

They become yes men, yes people. Yes, exactly. And then you have to be the person that holds them accountable. And it's funny, I just, as you said earlier, I call people to call me out on my bullshit, I call them out on their bullshit. You've done it with me before. Yeah, I have. And I do it not out of a place, out of hate,

not jealous or anything like that. Listen, the one thing that you've offered me that no one's ever offered me is an access to your jet. All right, now if I would have came when I put you in check if that was coming out of hate, that offer wouldn't be there. You know it's coming out of lawful.

A hundred percent, by the way, you also have helped my son on selfishly. And by the way, never told me that you were doing it, only through him do I find these things out that Tim does. That's what I meant by a real man. I think the winners have this thing. By the way, you should use it. You're the type of person that will never take me up on it and you should.

But I have to tell you guys that I think one of the things that the winners have is they lose this expectation that's going to be easy. They lose the expectation that they're going to be liked. They lose the expectation that it's going to be perfect. Once you've given up, you've actually surrendered to the fact, this is not going to be easy. People aren't going to like me. I am going to be judged. I am going to be disliked.'t going to like me. I am going to be judged. I am going to be disliked. It's not all that bad when it starts happening to you. And that's what winnings about in order to win,

you have, those are all the things that are in the unforgiving race. So you already know that they're there. You know they're there. And then people are still distracted by it. You know everything that you just mentioned is in this race. So if you already know this there,

you know what your opponents are. Deal with it. You also though, like there's a level even past that. Like every time I'm reading the book, I'm like, okay, oh, there's another level, another level, another level, and you articulate it. You've been up close and you're including yourself to like the biggest winners in sports.

So like there's layers to this that only someone in that type of proximity to it would know too. But so many people are governed like what we're really describing right now is they're governed by their emotions. Yes. Their emotions rule their lives, right? And you talk in the book about mindset and thoughts being bigger and more important than that. So this is so huge what he's about to share with you right now because right now some of you this you're driving right now or you're on a treadmill somewhere or you're

watching this on YouTube and you're being governed by your emotions. It's literally dictating the direction of your life, your effort, your belief level, your confidence, all of it, but the highest level winners do what? Your mind has to be stronger than your feelings. Your mind has to be stronger than your feelings. Think about every poor decision you've made in your life. Gosh, there was more emotion that was involved in it than there was mind. Every single one of them, think about it.

Your feelings keep you in bed. Your mind tells you, get up. Think about it. Every single day, your mind is wanna tell you, get up and your feelings like, eh, in extra 30 minutes, just roll this, don't worry about it. I could tell you this, every bad decision I may have been ruled by a motion.

As you said that. You and I have both. Yeah. You and I both. You make me think. Every single one, you might has to be stronger than your feelings. Listen, it's not the popular decision.

You are going to hurt. You are going to piss a lot of people off. Yep. All right. Are you going to piss them off with a short term? Are you going to piss them off for the long term? I've had so many individuals, athletes, that I used to train back in the day, and I used to tell them, you're not good enough to go to the NBA.

You would devaluate them and be willing to do it. I was, I said, you're not good enough to, but you can make a ton of money overseas. I said, what do you want to do? I said, overseas but you can make a ton of money overseas. I said, what do you want to do? I said overseas, you can make. I said, you can literally, you can put, have a very long career, be extremely popular over there, live a nice lifestyle, and be successful for numerous years.

Go over, you don't know what you're talking about. Tata, okay, I'm telling you. 10 years come by, they're chasing the NBA dream, they don't make it, I run into them, and they come up to me and says, you're the only one that told me. You're the only one that told me. You think the fact that they deny

is interesting, but like you are candid with me, right? Like I actually look at, my dad was candid with me. So maybe it's because I played sports, I don't know, but like I look at people who are really candid and frank with me is like, that's actually real belief in love. 100%. But don't you think most people that don't win,

and I'm not calling myself a winner, but I think most people that don't win, don't view candor and direct feedback that way. They view it as hate or criticism or you're rooting against me. Or don't you agree? Like I actually have very few people who are candid with me. Yeah.

And those are some of my most cherished people in my life. Right. Well, here's the thing. So when's the right, when's the best time for the truth? All the time. It's the best time for the truth. All the time. The truth should lead to more action.

But what does it usually do? It leads to more emotions. Wow, that's really true. So when you tell somebody a truth, so what's the first thing? Anybody in a relationship, you go in a relationship with business, personal, whatever it is. The first thing they always ask me, honestly,

honesty is the most important until you're honest. Until you're honest. Then the emotions get in and then everything goes, hey, why, then your mind has to be stronger than your feelings. That's awesome. You ever work with them, just curious, I've never asked you this even privately.

So let's take Kobe and Jordan, the two physically phenomenally gifted dudes, mixed with all the things that you have in the book about winning, like if you wanna think like Kobe Bryant, and what Tim Grover did, we're gonna read the book. If you wanna think like MJ, and the things that you learned from MJ, and then that you took to another level,

read the book, right? Did you ever work with a guy, don't say who, I know you wouldn't, but did you ever work with someone as physically gifted as either one of the two of them that just lacked these things, and so as a result guy, don't say who, I know you wouldn't. But did you ever work with someone as physically gifted as either one of the two of them that just lacked these things? And so as a result, we don't know who they are. Numerous.

Really? As physically gifted. Even more. Wow. Even more. They were by far not my most physically gifted athletes. I work with athletes that were jumped higher than MJ, who ran faster, who had better footwork than Kobe. But they- Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant,

were not the two most physically gifted athletes you've worked with. No. Whoa, okay. And then so when you would work with these guys, and you'd be pushing them in training, there was a different resistance or fatigue or how was it different?

You know what, and how many times have you had people come up to you and says, I'll do anything to get where you're at. Right, all the time. Or I'll do anything to work for you until you tell them what your definition of anything is. Your definition of anything is different than my definition of anything.

I'll have an athlete, it's very simple. When I first start with them, when I was training numerous, it's at what time's the first work, I'd say 330. I'd be like, okay, it's 330 AM. AM. I wouldn't tell them AM or PM. Tell them 330. Okay.

So, worse, myself, my staff, we're sitting at waiting because, you know, winning doesn't sleep and it doesn't understand why you, why you do so that we come back at we go that they roll in the gym out 3 3 30 like what are you doing here they're like you said 3 30 no no you got the wrong time and I said when does a new day start? And they look at me and goes, no, I said, no, the new day starts at 12 midnight. That's right.

That's a new day. Mm-hmm. All right. What are you waiting for? And even if you tell them, hey, MJ did this, Kobe did this, if they don't have it, they don't have it. They don't have it. You think it's a lack of obsession?

You said you've referenced a couple times like sleep at night, your bed doesn't sleep and all that. One of the things that, I'll be honest with you, there's a lot in the book that hit me, and you guys go get the book. Winning, Tim Grover, real simple. Get it anywhere, books are sold. But, there's this part of the book, man.

Like, it almost made me cry audibly reading it, but I did get water in my eyes, and I'm gonna get water even explaining it to you, where you're talking about being asleep and that you get these visitors at night. And I know those visitors very, very well. I have them too. It's attached to my obsessions. And I don't think I don't think the average person who wants to really win understands the extent and degree of obsession required. And don't.

So can you elaborate on that visitor's that you get at night? Everybody thinks obsession is a bad word. It's not. I love to use the people. You're a great example. Ed, why, why keep going? Look at the house. Not only this house, the other house, and the other house, and the plane. And if people pay very close attention to what was just set,

probably about 20 minutes ago, what did you say? I don't consider myself a winner. That's obsession. That's obsession. And I love to use your plane stories in example. You went from a very nice sized plane to even a bigger plane, but it's still not your 747. Right. Not your 747.

That's an obsession. That's a healthy obsession. That's an obsession. That's a healthy obsession. That's what gets you out of bed. That's what allows you to, when you get out of bed, when all the skeletons are lined up next to you and telling you, you can't do this, you're not able to do this, you're not able to do this, you get up every single morning and you shake their hands and get them a hug and say, yep, what do you're not able to do this. You get up every single morning and you shake the hands and get my hug and say, Yep.

What you got for me tonight. Exactly. I got you. So you put your part of me, your part of me. And people put something, it's funny. Winners bring all of them wherever they go. And most individuals, the best part of them, the thing that allows them to win, the thing that allows them to be obsessive, the thing that allows them not to care what other people

think, the things that allow them to deal with hatred, the things that keep them going when nothing else will, they keep in their closets. The best part of them, they keep in their, because they're worried what are people going to think about me if I let those things out. Don't I always say this, all right? No. Everyone says, I'm afraid to become that person. You should be more afraid not to become that person. You should be more afraid not to become that person.

Be afraid not to become that person. You're a big thing about me, I want to, at the end of the journey, I want to meet my better half and say, hey, what did you leave behind, or I was like, hey, this is the person. Shake hands with them. Shake hands with them. If you can't become that person, you're never going to be able to shake that person's hand. I live in way more fear of not becoming that person than I am about not trying to be him big time.

But I do have, once I'm on this for a minute, I get these visitors at night too that you get. So I don't want people to think that winning is all like Rosie and glory and beautiful. It's nothing. It's really not. And I'm not even, you have to know this. Here's the real, never said this on a show. You have to really know these truths so that you can actually decide you still want to win. Right? Because what does come with becoming this way now at 50 and you're 56 or 56? 56. You look great. I've had 50 years of having these visitors in my life. And they're not going away at. They're not going to, that's why everybody wants to do that. people just want to sweep them under the rug. They want to keep them in the closet.

They don't want to talk about them. That's what makes you successful. That's what makes you special. That's what makes you different. And what do we say? Different scares people. Winners and winning scares people. And they don't want to win because of that.

They're trying to win, they're trying to balance, they're trying to fit in. What do winners do? Very few of them have balance in their life. Maybe after they become successful, they try to balance a little bit more. I, there is no balance early. They don't care what other people thinks. They're extremely

obsessive. They know it. And they don't mind telling you that they're chasing the next win because that's what fuels them. But when you, people come to you and say, you've had enough, you've had, you know why? Slow down, slow down, unwind. I don't know about you. I do know about you, I should say that. We are at our most uncomfortable when people tell us to unwind, we like to be wound up.

Yes. Yes. We like that, that's like a part, that's a, like a part, we have our unique ways of unwinding. We don't need anybody to tell us to unwind. Yep. My favorite way of unwinding is having some Tequila with a buddy of mine who's another winner and talking about doing more winning.

What? I was on Andy's show and I said, winning is more fun than fun is fun. I remember that. And I just really believe that. Yeah. Actually, what I like, like I like the pursuit of winning. I like the, I like, I like that I sincerely don't feel that way about myself. Because I'm scared if I did. Like, I'm scared of these visitors that I have are my fears,

my worries, my hopes, my thoughts, my skeletons. You know, they take all those forms, they take all those forms. And you don't know what form they're going to take that night. And you know what, they're going to sit at you with the table. They're not going to, I put this in a book. When you travel, those skeletons are traveling with you on the plane. They're my constant companion. All the time.

And if you notice, everyone looks at you and you you on the plane. They're my constant companion all the time. Yeah, and if you notice Everyone looks at you and you fly on that plane alone. I have said Ed's never been on that plane alone. It's true It's true. He's never been on that plane alone with me all the time all the time And you know what when they look at his tequila bottles on the thing and they're finished That's because they're drinking the best stuff I want to be drinking all that stuff, man. Stuff gets expensive. I just love this because this is the realest conversation I've ever had about really winning

and it's the realest book about it. Like, this isn't one of these polyamethics. It's not all rosy. No, there's a lot of it that sucks. And unless you want to sign up and by the way, I don't know if you feel, I'm actually cool if you don't. Like if you actually said, hey, I don't want all that stuff. I don't wanna, I mean, I don't relate to you.

I'm not gonna hang out with you. You're not my kind of people. But I'd actually admire somebody who says, I won't do these things that are in this book, and I know I'm not gonna win. Rather than say, I wanna win and do none of the things that are in the book. The people that can admit it, they've already won.

The people that said, this ain't for me. This ain't for me, they know exactly who they are. I'm good. I'm good. Most people will settle for good, most people will settle for okay. Very few people will settle for great, very few people will settle for great, very few people will settle for unstoppable, very few people will settle for winning. I break things

down three different ways. So look at this and I didn't put this in a book but I want to share this with you. You have individuals that compete. Everybody competes. You know that. You play golf. You love golf. You know you go out and you're golfing partner. I don't know what's this real name. Your real name is Kelly Gwynn. We call him Richard Cabesa. Yes.

Cabesa is head and Spanish. I got it. Everyone that's wondering what that's his name because I have the people don't know, that's what Richard Cabesa is. Right, everybody knows him. He's going to be signing on the grass. And Richard Cabesa goes down to people like,

I love you with my Latin man. Can I get you wrong? He said people take pictures with them. That's awesome. So, and I'll get into it a little bit later about that, but there's people that compete. All right, everybody knows how to compete. That's something.

And for most people, when they compete, they want to get to, they want to just finish. That's their way. They just want to finish. All right. Now to me, if you're that level person, is that finish going to lead to another win? It might not be, it might be in something else. If you're going to run a marathon, and you're not one of these top elite marathon runners, you're not going to win the marathon. You're not going to win. But you have a mindset to say, hey, I'm going to finish this marathon.

Now, is that when you finish that marathon, what else is it setting you up for? But there's people that go in there, they're just happy, they're just happy competing, they're just happy finishing, they're just happy to be in the race. Then you have people that win. Right? Once.

They win once. Yeah. And how many individuals do you know? And you probably don't, well, I shouldn't say this. I said you know, not associate with this, a big difference. That keep telling you about that win over and over again, no matter how long it's been. Yeah, factoid.

All right. I got it, man. You were quarterback in high school. Yes. I got it. You got your master. So I got it. All right. I got it man. You were quarterback in high school. Yes. I got it. Yes. You got your master. So I got it. I got it. All right. Then you have individuals that win at winning. That's really good. They win at winning. So they win over and over and over again. You think it's

you think it's all it's cracked up to be no, but we don't know any other way Best answer of all time very something everybody that we just we don't know any other way best answer of all time We just we can't accept we can't accept it any other way. We just can't Hmm I wrote a best-selling book. I didn't have to do another book. You wrote a best-selling book. Right. You know. You have another book coming out.

Mm-hmm. You know, you don't have to do any of this. But if you didn't, that would be more detrimental to you. You don't know any other way. You just don't. Yeah, you think that, by the way, I'm loving this, just so you know, because I know people that might be listening

to say this a little bit dark, like, are welcome to winning. Like, that's why you see so many people, I watch Nick Sabin After wins these national championships. He's gotten a little bit better out at the last couple years You notice this little 11 like one percent better but oh, you know what his head even his wife or some of my This family's okay at least smile for the interview after right we can get back to work tonight But you watch these prolific winners. So I did love to watch MJ celebrate that

win in the evening that he won, right? Or, you know, the few times I saw Kobe actually celebrate the win, but I know the next day they're back to work. I watch a Sabin. And like for years, he'd win these national championships. And you could already see the grimace on his face for the next year in the post game interview. Yes. Right. And like, I think people, they then see and I think to your answer you're right. Like people they will see really enjoying this. Yes. And he knows no other way. So maybe it's not all I wonder if you ask is it all it's cracked up to be.

I think some people might say no, but it's all I know. And it's better than the alternative of living with losing the rest of my life or not try. Yes. Right. There's a reason that's lonely at the top. And it's not because you want to be surrounded with other individuals. That's not the part people when they talk about it. It's lonely at the top. It's alone because nobody understands what's going at the top. It's alone because nobody understands what's going on in here. Of what you've went after you've just won, what you went through and you're already thinking

about the next, you're already thinking about the next and people can't comprehend that. And there's people whispering in your ear and they're saying, enjoy it, enjoy it. By the time they say enjoy it, you did enjoy it without you already thinking. Yeah. Do you think it's that I'm just thinking right now I'm asking you this, because you watched this

and you've done it in your own life. Like, you've had two careers. You've had a career where you helped, which you still do, where you help other people win. And then there became this point in your life where you became, people win. And then there became this point in your life where you became, you were individually winning as a speaker, as a coach, as a writer. It's an interesting thing to watch with you. You were the behind the scenes guy, then you weren't the behind the scenes guy.

Do you think that it's like a dopamine thing, like when they win, like they're already, they have to get another one, like a meat, like it's an addiction. Do you think winning becomes an addiction? It is an addiction. And the only place where you can get that high again is the black market in your mind. So only place. Because you only know where that entrance is, you only know where that hit is,

you only know what that drug is. And here's a crazy part about the next win has to be bigger. It has to be bigger, It has to be bigger. It has to be bigger. It has to constantly keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger. So true. It sounds like a sickness when you're listening to this, but I actually think it's beautiful. I actually think you were born to win and you learn over a lifetime how not to as a child

Don't do this sit down be a good boy get in your place do this then the world starts treating you And I think you move further and further away from your own nature I think we were born to win we were born to do something great with our life I really I don't that's a saying to me and I feel a sadness when I meet somebody who's accepted a life of not winning By the way, I'm cool with it. It's okay, I'm not judging you. But as someone who wants to pursue that expression of myself or that, I just wonder what I would be like.

If I could, what it would be like, what I would be like, if I could get to the next level. I'm fascinated with, like I think the people that I really like enjoy, they're a curious people. Like I want the next experience. I don't want to live in the previous experience like that guy was like, hey, you know, I made a million dollars in 2009

and it was like in the mortgage boomer with a crash or whatever. I'm not really interested in living in those times. You're not, because it's always about, it's always about what's next. It's always about constantly staying in the rain. It's a constantly about changing your mindset. The language of winning for people that win is completely different than the language of winning from other individuals. You sit here and you talk to

people and they describe, when I talk to all my athletes I said describe winning in one word to me and everybody would think about you know They would be like it's happy. It's you know, it's euphoric. It's all those things and it is But those constant winners their answers were it's unpolished It's uncivilized. It's nasty. It's hard It's uncivilized. It's nasty. It's hard. It's dirty. It's unforgiving. And then Kobe comes up and says, it's everything. It's everything. And if you think about it, and very few people are genuine about this, and you know the ones that are, and you know the ones that aren't.

How do you feel when somebody is really close to you? And they went. It's an unbelievable feeling. Unbelievable feeling. How do you feel when you went? It's unbelievable feeling. Even though it's short-lived. How do you feel when your kids went?

It's unbelievable. Yeah. All right. That feeling is everything. It is everything. That feeling is everything. It's amazing you just said that. I'm reading the book last night and I call my wife about halfway through the book because when you read your work, you know, even in the first book, most you talk about in this book, the most controversial part of the first book was the Dark Side. You talk about it in this book. And then when you're reading this, you're like, this winning things mean. This winning thing's unforgiving. This winning thing doesn't give a shit if you sleep. This winning thing doesn't care. You go through, you're like, this is almost. And if you're not careful, guys, you would think, because this is truth, it flies in the face everything you always hear, but you would think that it's not something that you really want.

And the evidence of it, I said to my wife last, I said the evidence that you know winning is where you belong, is how happy you are when you see your children doing it if you have children. When your children win a spelling bee or get straight A's or hit a home run or win a golf tournament or do anything exceptional.

The amount of joy you feel in pride when they win, I have a feeling that that's how God feels when he sees one of his children win. And I think this is something we all miss, that it is a grind, it is difficult. But if you ever wonder whether you belong winning and that's the path you should pursue, just ask yourself a question about your children if you have them or your parents or anybody that you love and care about when they win how do you feel for them. I literally said this last night. So I've heard you speak numerous times and well people don't know about this like when we're on the stage together

at this same event I'll stay just to hear you speak. Bikes first as you know. You know I would stay the last time I heard you speak. Bikes first says you know. You know, I will stay. The last time I heard you speak was an event and you were talking about a golf tournament you were with within your side. With Max, yeah. With Max. Yeah. To the intense story.

Yeah, it was an it was. We went from playing golf to winning. Yes. That was the decision. Like to your point, like your book. And by the way, I've said this early in the interview, little words from people, a caring statement, a little bit of access to some information. And I've said this many

times, you said it to you, but like I thank you because you know, I've had people say, oh, your son gets all your stuff. And yeah, he also has talked to Grover. He's also talked to Grover. And just so you guys know, I really, truly believe that one of the reasons that my son is excelling is you. And your information, little whispers, you get a little direct message, little text message, a little access to a call, like you've done for my son. And I think that's the other thing that people don't know. Winners are generous. Extremely generous. Extremely, you know why? Because they're truthful. They tell you how it is. It's not it's not rainbows.

It's not unicorns. It's not sprinkles. This is what it takes. This is what it takes. And other people they'll tell they don't want it. We talk about the stuff nobody else wants to talk about. Right. Does that make us bad people? In many people's eyes it does but also where the few people that are gonna hold you accountable, we're gonna tell you the truth, and where people are gonna say, you know what? Everybody else sugarcoded it. These individuals told me exactly how this,

that's what the book winning is about. Now, I don't want people to think that it's all this thing. If you read the last chapter of the book, it kind of ties everything in and it explains why winners go through this journey. Why they go through this journey? Because I have this thing, it's like everyone talks about it's the journey, it's journey, it's not the destination. Well to me, why the hell are you taking the journey. It's journey, it's not the destination. Well to me, why the hell are you taking the journey

if you don't know where the hell the destination is? Where are you just amuletly gonna be running around? All right, every time when you get on your plane or you get in your car, you know exactly, you're going from here to here. Now, you may have to take a detour to go somewhere else to do whatever you're doing, but you like, this is where we're going

You had a post a couple of days ago, man, it's nice to own a jet because all of a sudden I got to go wherever wherever your destination is Yeah, yeah By the way, it could be the most enjoyable flight in the world But if I end up at the wrong place complete waste of time and I'm pissed off This notion that it's the journey and that destination is maybe the biggest pile of BS in the history of the world. I want to, you know, the journey enjoyed if you can, but the bottom line is you better get to the destination. You got to know what the does, you've got to know what the,

you've got to know what the destination is. I was coaching all these guys the other day on haters and you know, you're so obsessed with this crap, right? Like, what are they thinking about me? What are they thinking about me? And I'm like, let me tell you guys the truth, it was our our take group. I said, here's the deal.

They are right if you lose. So you better win. So if you don't win, everything they said was true. And you can hung up the call. I mean, you have to get to the destination. That's it. That's the whole point of this, right? If you don't get to the winning destination,

most of what they said was true. And the reason it bothers you so much is you're afraid you might not get to the destination And they're gonna be right and right and it's and what we talked about instead of the fear You're you're gonna have that fear, but there should be no doubt. I'm getting to that destination I'm it's not a straight line. I know it's never going to be a straight line listen This thing drives me absolutely crazy and I just like oh When people put this out there, five steps to this, 10 steps.

How many steps have you taken in your lifetime, Ed? Unlimited amounts, and the new ones are revealed all the time. And sometimes you can't even see the, and do you always get to walk up those steps? No, sometimes you got to crawl up those steps? No, sometimes you gotta crawl up those steps on your hands and knees. Yes. And then just when you get to the top,

you get pushed right, you get pushed right back down. It's not easy. It is not easy. And sometimes Tim, when I get to that step, like the next one's revealed to me that I had no idea existed. Exactly. It's funny, you say this because I'm writing my book right now

and I'm like, I wanna put steps in like 21 of these. I actually said in the beginning of the book, I don't know that I'm gonna do it that way yet, but I literally was saying to our publisher, I'm like, as long as I'm allowed to say, these aren't in exclusivity. Here's 21 particular steps or 19 particular steps, but there's gonna be 99 million more.

And a couple more things because because we're flying bikes. Like, we should have done the three hour Rogan like we were talking about, but by the way, the amount of tequila that we'll consume in those three hours would make it even more interesting to listen to the two of us. But here's something, I have a good fortune in so to you that at this stage of our lives

we're around other winners. Yes. So there's- We choose that. What's that? It's a choice we make. Yeah, it's a choice we make. Okay, that at this stage of our lives we're around other winners. Yes. So there's- We choose that. What's that? It's a choice we make. It's a choice we make. Okay, that's interesting. You say that.

It's a choice we make. We have very little tolerance for people that can't get that information. When you tell about, hey, listen, about the haters, you gotta get to the winning, that's otherwise they're gonna be right. How many times you have to say that over and over and over again, you're just like, it's really good.

Is you give me permission? Because sometimes I try to, I fancy myself a lover of humans, right? And I do. I love people. And it's why I do this. Yet I sometimes find myself thinking that I'm judgmental of people when I do get uncomfortable or on some of that doesn't share that perclivity to want to grow and win. Do you know what I'm saying? I almost feel judging my like, man, I'm judgmental of people when I do get uncomfortable or on some of that doesn't share that perclivity to want to grow and win. You know what I'm saying? I almost feel judging my like, man, I'm what's

what I should just like this do. No, so you'll sit here and I do this all the time. Well people come up and say, you know, and they'll say something, I'll just look them out. I don't understand. I just like they have a thought process. You just sit there and you're just it's not a winning mentality. It's just like, they have a thought process, you just sit there and you're just, it's not a winning mentality, it's just like, you'll sit there and you're so, you're so perplexed by what you're just like. I don't understand. That doesn't happen to me, right?

It's just like, this is like, really? Right, yes. Yeah, you're like, really? Yeah. And those are the individuals you're trying to like, okay, no matter how you sum them up, how you explain to them, they just can't make it. They're the yeah but person.

Yeah, I got that but, yeah but, but you don't know my situation. But you don't know this, yeah but, yeah but, yeah but. I'm like, no, there's no but. Like you got a big old but for a reason. You need to get rid of that big but, there's no but, this is the way it is. I don't understand what you're talking about.

And this is a different version of me even sometimes for the audience when I'm around you because like I just feel like the real is the real, right? But when you start, you say something so awesome in the book amongst tons of awesome things. But I do have access to people like yourself that are friends of mine now that make me feel normal. As you said, a lot of people responded that way

to relentless and they're gonna respond that way to winning. And just pick their brains and associate with them and then your thermostat setting goes up all the stuff I teach. But when I started, I didn't. And you talk about this in here about, I felt initially and I think a lot of people are like, you know what, I'm going to choose winning. I'm going to read this book, I'm going to follow my left's podcast religiously and I'm going to choose winning. I'm going to read this book. I'm going to follow my Let's podcast religiously and I'm going to choose to win.

When you make that decision, you have decided to leave a pack and probably initially feel very alone, right? And this is something not talked about and I think a lot of people were so used to being in packs, we're in classrooms, we're on teens in life, in classrooms, we're always in groups, I'm a Democrat, I'm a Republican, I'm a this, I'm a that, it's all tribes and groups.

But when you decide to win, you have separated from most groups and you may not know yet, especially if you're new to it, other people as crazy as you, right? And this, you do this thing about reframing loneliness into mental dominance. Can you talk, like I love that phrase, mental dominance too, so talk about that. Excellent, so winning is lonely. Success is lonely. All right, can you separate yourself?

So you could be standing next to another individual and winning it says, points at you and doesn't point to you, you and you. All right. Are you willing to say, hey, winning it just noticed me. And now what did you do for winning to say, you know what, I got a little interest in you. I don't have any interest in the rest of your folks. I got a little interest in you. I don't have interest in the rest of you folks. I got a little interest in you.

Because what do we say? Winning keeps his hands in his pocket because it doesn't want to point to the wrong person. It doesn't want to acknowledge the wrong individual. All right, so when it comes to you says, come here. Let me talk to you. All right, no, no, no, I don't want to talk to them. I just need you to come along. This is the journey, this is the path, this is I don't want to talk to them. I just need you to come along.

This is the journey, this is the path, this is what you're gonna have to do. This is who you're gonna have to separate yourself from. Are you interested? And you can't think about it. Are you willing to come through this door knowing you have no idea what's on the other side of the door. You have no idea what's on the other side of the door?

You have no idea what's outside of that door. And once that door closes, you can't go back. Most people be like, I'm not willing to do that. But the winds are so available and people, I don't know when winning got such a, I don't even know the word I'm looking for. It's just like it became a bad thing where people were obsessed to win. And I'll go back to you on this.

You play golf on a regular basis, all right. You compete in tournament things. Yes. Are you just in them? Are you there to win? I'm there to win. I'm there to win. Yeah.

I love watching golf interviews with the guys. Like, yeah, I'm excited. I've made the top 10. And I'm like, Tiger Woods would literally throw up if he ever said that audibly out loud in his life, right? I'm not. I, like, even for me and golf, and I know this is true for you and your fitness,

you and I talk about our fitness a lot. So listen, I'm not Michael Hurn, neither are you. Right? I'm in golf, I'm not Phil Mickelson, but I'm going to, this is no pun, I'm going to max out my opportunity, at my level to compete, and then when I get to that level, I'm going to max out my opportunity at my level to compete, and then when I get to that level, I'll go to the next level, not enough people

win where they are right now. Like if you wanna be an entrepreneur and you're an employee somewhere right now, win as an employee right now. Dominate where you are. If you're a high school athlete and you're watching this and you've got aspirations to play major league baseball, dominate and win where you are right now.

And that builds the habit of winning, the addiction of winning, the biochemistry of winning in our lives. And this idea that you're going to be lonely like accepted, like I have just accepted in my life that, especially when I was new, that I was going to have to have that. And I think a lot of times people think that, they can't deal with that isolation. Right, and I loved, so, when people follow you on all your social media platforms,

Instagram and everything else, all right. They see the beautiful house, they see the cars, they see that, they see everything. How big is this house? This one's a 7,500. 7,500 square feet. All right. How many people are in this house right now?

There are four of us. But you're more than usual. Where's your wife? She's at the other house in the desert. Where's your son? He's at that, he's playing in a golf room, but he's at that house too. Where's your daughter? They're there. There's three of them there. Do I need to say anything else? You're in this house chasing

your next wind. Yep. Me and you. Yeah, and I would rather be, I can't wait to see them later tonight, but right now I would rather be nowhere else on planet earth than talking to you about this topic right now Yeah, that's a fact. So we're gonna run out of time We're probably already on time probably my editor is gonna kill me for this, but it's just it's too good So I want to talk about two more things One is grit versus glamor So social media world there's a lot of glam out there about winning.

And even in the sports world now, like, a lot of these rookies get these big deals. And so you're instantly seeing guys sign for significant cash. And I think the appearance of it is that it's glamour. It's one thing I've kind of always admired about Brady, even though I probably overly talk about Brady, is that he messages grit a lot.

He shows grit a lot. That's almost counter-culture now, the grit piece of it. So talk a little bit about grit versus glamour. With social media out there now, everybody can, it's easy to glamourize something you don't even have. Yep, you can fake it. You fake it so much. You know, that's...

Social media is less than... The fake is a new real. The fake is the new real. It really is. It really is. You can't fake the grit. Everybody will know if you fake the grit. You just can't.

You just can't. What is grit to you? Grit to me is something inside of you that just allows you to push forward and allows you to block everything out and continue to say, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. What I like to parlay grit with is the grind. Everybody always talks about their grinding, their grinding, their grinding.

Well, here's the thing. If you just continue to grind, you're gonna end up with dust. What are you grinding for? What are you trying to form with that grit? What are you grinding for? What are you trying to form with that grit? What are you trying to form with that grind? You take an ice sculpture, all right, it starts, it's a square or a circle, whatever it is, and they take away the pieces, the form, whatever it may be. Are you grinding and grit and for that, to whatever shape that's going to look for you?

Was that what winning looks like to you? And it's different for each individual. Your definition of winning may be completely different than somebody else's definition of winning. Your grit has to determine what winning means to you. And it could be completely different than anybody else. I understand why you do the things you do. I get it.

When Ed does something, I was like, I get it. There's no judgment behind it. I totally understand. That's your win. The people that don't understand, your win your grit don't understand your grime are like You know why why it's not it's not for you to know why it's important. It's only important for you to know why And your why is so different than everybody else grit is tied into tied into all that. It's tied into your identity

and it connects with your why because your grit may be completely different than somebody else's grit. But the glamour is never going to be real unless you go through the grit and the grind. It's just not. It's always going to be fake. It's really good. For me, if it's something that's measurable, winnings first, that's it.

It's first. So, if it can be measured, it's first. If I'm not first, I lost. And then you look at it, you know, people, you take it personal when you put information out there and you don't reach the numbers. Of course. You're like, and you're like, you don't blame this, you're like, you know what, what did I do in the end? 100% me. What did I do?

What could have I done better? All right. And then there's a healthy ego behind that with both of us because that's confidence. To me, if you just, there's an unhealthy ego, one of the people that just talk. And there's a healthy ego that produces results. And every individual needs to have a healthy, confident ego that produces the results that show.

100%. So when max puts, for example, I teach this with a lot of my athletes. So you know, you guys, guys miss a putt and golf, it's like, I suck or I can't putt or I miss the read. I said, Max, you said earlier about no doubt, you should expect to win. Not the type of expectation that you believe

that it's afforded to you or that it's your right, but an expectation that that's where you're going. And I taught, I teach a lot of my athletes this, but especially when it comes to golf, you miss that putt, I want you to say, that's where you're going. And I taught, I teach a lot of my athletes this, but especially when it comes to golf. You miss that putt, I want you to say, that's not like me, that's not me, because I make putts, right? And so for me, I'm surprised when I'm not winning,

because I expect to win at something. You expect to win at work. So what happened here? Whereas most people, they're surprised when they do win. Yep. I don't believe Michael Jordan was shocked ever when he won a championship. Am I right about that? 100 percent.

Wade, Kobe, there was no shock when they got there, but most people were like, I won! They act like they've never been there before, right? When I watched Michael win that first championship, everybody that watched, he's going to win another one. He's going to win another one. It didn't look like that was it. I remember Brady when he won the first who was kinda like, whoa, kinda like this. And then you watched him come back the next year and you're like, these guys are gonna win

multiple championships. He is, yeah. And I'm just curious with you brother, I'm almost done, but I'm watching you and I'm just, I'm proud of you. Thank you. What an interesting life. Like I know the story.

If you guys saw my first show with Tim, that, well, you couldn't get through it. That story of the cab ride with your dad. Just to think of this little boy whose dad's like, well, we're going to walk to where we're going. But his dad didn't have the money to pay the cab fare to get them to where they were going. And you carry your little bags down the street as a little boy, right? And just to think that that little guy ends up... I mean, the last dance was about Michael Jordan, but if it wasn't about anybody else to me,

and I'm watching, maybe it's because you're my friend, it's like, a lot to do with Grover too, man. Like, you've become this icon in that space. You've literally arguably worked with the best of all time at something and you came here carrying your bags down the street. Then you go, let me give you more. Then you go from doing that to, you're like, all right,

I'll write a book. All right, you can't spell. You sell a million copies. I know you very well. You're extremely introverted, private man. You're like, now I'm going to speak on stages in front of large groups. And then afterwards, I'm going to meet a bunch of people one on one and interact with them socially. I know you, brother. Then you dominate at that, right? And then you become friends with people like myself who we cherish the friendship with you,

even when it's from a distance. Now you got this book out, this one's gonna sell three million copies or whatever the heck it's gonna do. Are you proud of you? I'm more proud that you're proud of me. I surround myself with the best. And I'm sitting here with the best. He's right here.

Cheers. Well, I've now got Grover to cry three times. So that's gotta be a Guinness World record. I am proud of you. And- And so am I of you. Every time I see, because I know for people look at you,

and they see he's got everything, and I look at you and see what's next. I know you do. And I feel that from you, and I also, from having worked with who you've worked with and who you are, you're under no illusion that like, I'm like super at peace all the time, you know? In fact, most of the time you're like,

you okay, what's going on, what's wrong? I saw something there, you feeling all right? What's going on? You get it, I saw something there. Are you feeling all right? What's going on? You get it. And you need to have people in your life like this guys who will tell you the truth, but also don't buy into any of your BS about everything being rosy all the time. And you've been a really important person to me. Molly regret like seeing you today.

It's like, I, and Sherry, who's off camera, it's like, I just wish I saw them more often. And Sherry obviously is credited with helping write this book. It says right in there, Sherry too. So I just, first off, everybody needs to get this book. And it's, it's, it's, it's very simple, okay? This is a topic very rarely discussed truthfully. Very simple. So there's topics out there where people discuss, you

know, neuroscience in your brain or, you know, how to grow yourself confidence. These are things and there's some good books on it. The topic of winning. Start reading the book, just listen to someone who has broadcasts episodes. Thank you. Thank you. There's all those guests on there. Thank you. But there's this is distilled down into something you can carry with you as a companion with truth in it. And people that you and I both know, I just want to say this, that have started reading it, that I'm texting, it's just like, that's true, that's true, that's true, that's true,

that's true. And it's things that, you know, it's taking you 56 years to acquire and accumulate, it's taking me 50 years of my life to acquire and accumulate some of these things. And the fact that you are imparting new things on to me means anybody in their journey to wanting to win, that's not quite as far down that road needs to have this because it's gonna help you. And hopefully today's interview did as well.

So cheers, brothers. Thank you for today. Thank you so much. Thank you. I knew we would do magic again. Yes. I knew we would. And to all of you guys out there, listen to me. Go get this book and please share this conversation.

If you have anyone in your life, anybody who's interested in winning, this is the show you need to be sharing with them right now. This episode of this show can absolutely make an impact in their life. And he jokes in the book about every show's life changing, every show's epic. And it's not.

I believe in every show that I put out. And that's why I always tell you guys that I believe it can make an impact in your life. But some of them are right to the heart of what I know you truly want. And I know you truly want to win. And I know today can make an impact in your life, but some of them are right to the heart of what I know you truly want, and I know you truly want to win, and I know today can help you do that. So I just wanna say to everybody,

share the show, God bless you, and max out. We are the show. This is the end my let's show. We are the show. We are the swine