The Edge Breakfast - ASK ME ANYTHING: Dr Paul Wood

Episode Date: August 27, 2025

At age 18, Dr Paul Wood's mother died and three days later, chose to catch up with a drug dealer. That fateful meeting would conclude with him dead and Dr Paul in prison for the first night of what would be the next ten years plus in some of New Zealand’s toughest prisons. By his release in 2006 he had attained an undergraduate degree in psychology and philosophy, a master’s degree in psychology, and was two years into his Ph.D. in Psychology. Listen to the full chat with Dr Paul Wood here.

This is a podcast from Rover. Dr. Paul Wood, welcome. I'm such a pleasure to have the chance to chat. Oh, what a five. I normally listen to you, so there you go. So cool. So we do these things, Dr. Paul, called AMAs, Ask Me Anythings. And we are meeting so many interesting people and getting a chance to have a greater understanding about so many people.

I imagine that you are copping questions about your past, left, right and center. I do get the odd question, yes. I also tell you what I get a lot of, which I absolutely love, is not necessarily questions, but people sharing their own struggles, challenges and learnings. Because they know I'm standing in a big old glass house, right? I mean, let's just feel the weight of it. You know, I'm a convicted murderer.

I'm not going to be judging you about whatever's going on for you, right? Totally. And that's a jarring thing to just say, a convicted murderer. Oh, because... It sure is. there's more of a backstory to that. And could you go into it? Are you able to?

Yeah, sure. Look, I'll give you the short version, obviously, no. But look, I was someone who I was lucky. I grew up in a pro-social household. I had two parents who were contributing to tax pain members of society, but I was raised primarily in the 80s, and it was a lot more free range then. I went off the rails pretty hard as a teenager,

and part of that was the free-range nature of the times, but also part of it was that my mum was in the process of dying, and that took all of the bandwidth of my dad and the family, and I was around people who weren't the best influences, and it wasn't that I was led astray. I was equally leading astray, and I think you can get that with teenagers, where people sort of have this self-perpetuating cycle of negative encouragement of each other,

and I was part of that, and unfortunately there was a lot of criminality, a lot of drug use and that just carried on through my teenage years and then when I was 18 my mum died I caught up with a drug dealer nothing unusual right that's how I live my life but as a result of that catch-up and his attempt to take advantage of me I ended up killing him and going to prison for the next 10 years 10 months and I just want to be clear uh I went far beyond what was required of me in terms of self-defense in that situation and that's why I ended up with a murder conviction I felt like a victim at the time

it's always easy to feel like the victim right he attacked me all of this sort of stuff but the reality was I made every choice that put myself into that situation I made every choice that earned me my place in the New Zealand prison system long term wowzers so your mother had just passed away like you said even before her passing your father

all of the bandwidth was taken up with a sick wife of course what was his reaction in that moment of devastating grief, losing his wife, and now facing the prospect of losing his son, really, to the prison system. Did you have a conversation with your dad? What was that relationship like through the trial and then your

imprisonment? Yeah, my father is World War II generation. He was a boy in the east end of London during the Blitz, spent his nights in bomb shelters, survived on rations. That's not an overly demonstrative or communicative

generation, right? You know, their primary driver was survival and resilience and just having a life where you could do the basics, provide for family, all of that sort of stuff. So I would say that, you know, we didn't really have conversations around that. But what I would say is that my father was the biggest difference between me and most people in the prison system who just get stuck in that system because dad, even though he's never been a big talker, in fact, his favorite thing is to probably just spend Dave by himself. right. He would have been well suited

to solitary confinement unlike me when I did it when I was in prison, but anyway he showed up weekend after weekend for over a decade and just quietly supported me and believed in me and when I was ready to try and change my life I'd gone in a high school dropout

a drug addict all of this stuff but when I was in my 20s after I'd been a maximum security prison I decided I want to start studying and he paid for that out of his pension that's the reason I could study So he may not have been a big talker, but I'll tell you what, his actions spoke louder than anything he could have

in terms of that support and belief in me. Paul, so I'm assuming at a very young age of 18 or 19, you go in to prison knowing you're going to be there for over a decade. What's the first day or week like for somebody who's never been to prison? Oh, rough, and especially because, you know, I had a morphine addiction at the time, which meant my first days were withdrawal. You know, my first days really were just constantly trying to just close my eyes

and just trying to go, if I can just wake up and this isn't real. If I can just wake up and this isn't real. It was just, you know, complete denial. And I just, it was too much. It really was. And I think, you know, I got through that initial period and I was in solitary confinement because they had to keep me under observation, was I going to kill myself? You know, how is I going to respond to being in this situation?

So, you know, you're on like 15-minute suicide watch at that point in the prisoners after spending three days withdrawing in the police cells. And again, it's like withdrawing from opiates is like a really bad case of the flu. And so there's a lot of physical, you know, muscle pain. involved a lot of emotional pain and then you layer on top of that you know just the incredible trauma and regret of being involved in a situation like that and the disbelief and and you know having let the family down so badly and just all of these things it was it was yeah it was a real challenge I'll tell you

what though I'm a true believer that sometimes when you're in dark places it It feels like you've been buried when actually you've been planted. Yeah. Is there any positives? And although I wouldn't sit at this right time, but that's what it would be for me eventually. But what was the change between the grief that I can't believe this, the trauma, the detox, the holy shit, I messed my life up. What was the change that happened within you to go from that to I'm going to study? I'm going to come out of this better.

I'm going to turn this around. Like, how does that change happen? Yeah, and how long does that take? Wicked. Wicked, wicked. I love these pieces right, because I think we often have a really false idea that change is about having this motivation and seeing the light and then we're on the path. That's not the reality of real change. Real change is incremental.

It's small steps over a long period of time. And here's a big one. You don't wait for the motivation to take action. you start taking action and then the motivation comes and builds as you progress further. I mean, let me use a comparable example, right? There'll be lots of people listening who are parents. Imagine if you said, I'm not going to ask my kids to tidy up until they feel motivated to do so. Oh, gosh.

I'd be living in a pink star. I mean, what a ridiculous notion, right? Obviously it would never happen, and it's the same with us. I didn't feel like this, oh, I've got this great motivation to change, because that would have required me to be a bit. aware, one that change was possible, and two, that there was a reason to change that I could be accepted back into society. And when I started on this path, neither of those things were on my horizon. I didn't know you could change, and also I didn't know I could have another life in society

where I'd be accepted. You know, I was mentally limited by my experiences and by my thoughts about what was possible. But I started studying, and part of it was motivated by immediate need. I'm in an ultra-violent environment in prison, but also, you know, I've discovered through my friendship with one of New Zealand's most accomplished safecrackers that it's interesting and cool to know stuff and that the world can be quite a magical place. And so I was curious, I was interested based on that friendship. And so I started down this path, but it wasn't motivated to, like, change my life or anything.

But then as I started taking these steps, I started to realize there was so much more I could do, there was so much more out there that I was not someone who was limited in the way I had thought I was but that I just needed to start moving in this direction and keep going and so that was really what the process

was and like what I do today that was never on my horizon I didn't know the life I have now existed I didn't know what I do professionally existed but you take these small steps and over time they lead you a long way what's the positive in your words

that come out of prison, apart from the obvious, because I'd imagine there would be some days where you had good days in prison? Do you know, one of my favourite quotes comes from my previous employer, Dr. Sarah Burke, her and Dr Paul England were the people who gave me a chance to build my craft once I was out of prison, right, to get good at stuff

in this, you know, a professional development space. But I remember her saying to me once, but, you know, there must have been days where it really was a rollicking good dime It's not necessarily how to describe it, but I'll tell you something interesting. We're a super adaptive species, and what that means is whatever your base level, whatever your equilibrium level of happiness is, you tend to readjust to that pretty quickly when your circumstances change.

And so even in prison, yeah, sure. There were times where, you know, I felt good. You know, I exercised a lot, and as I started studying and progressing, that was awesome. But there was also heaps of fear because you're in such a dangerous environment where you've got heaps of people with mental health issues and a propensity for violence and it's so easy for people to just get ideas, demons in their mind and then attack you or take things out on you or just be predatory. It's a predatory environment. So it's dangerous. But one of the real positives that I've got subsequent to the experience is the sure knowledge. that I'm up for life's challenges, that I can cope with whatever comes my way. And I'll tell what else it gave me. It's given me a real sense of gratitude and appreciation for how good my life is now. The natural human tendency, right, is to focus on the things we're unhappy about.

Wish we just earned that little bit more money or we had that little bit more, whatever else it is. But the reality is we're going to have a way better life if we're able to go, hey, what are some of the things to be grateful for about my life? You know, my partner, my kids, my circumstances. And so I really learned to do that. And prison provides a great benchmark of misery and suffering and comparison for me. Yeah, imagine it's like why people do ice baths. You put yourself in a stressful situation, but prison for 10 years is like at another end of the spectrum. A 10 year ice bath.

And you were given it a discharge, which is very rare after your release. What does that mean and why did they give it to you? Okay, so because I was convicted of murder, that meant I got a life sentence with a minimum non-parole period. So I had to serve a minimum of 10 years, but then I'd be on parole for life even once I was released. And you're not released once you hit your parole period. That's when you start going to the parole board. On a 10-year minimum, which is a very unusually low minimum, you would normally serve 14 or 15 years before you release. But I, by that point, was two years into my doctorate.

I was well supported. I had opportunity for employment. I had done every program possible to reduce the life field of my reoffending to make it easier for the parole board to release me. And so I got out after 10 years, 10 months. And then you're on parole for life. You have to show up and see your probation officer. You can only move residents if you have permission. You know, there's all these sorts of things that go with it.

You can't leave the country without permission, all sorts of things. After being on that for about 12 years, I was lucky enough to be able to apply to the parole board to have my conditions dropped. And they agreed that I was not a good use of resource for an overstretched probation department and that I was a pro-social contributing member of society. And part of their reasoning there was things like, you know, like I have really good relationships with the police now. I've done work for the police. I have lots of friends who are in the police and other areas of service.

I don't have those kinds of antisocial attitudes that I used to have. But also because I speak publicly about my background, that provides, additional predictive piece from the parole board's perspective. Because if I started getting up to mischief, a lot of people know who I am. That's not something to stay hidden. I have an incredibly pro-social, fantastic wife who's way too good for me and way too good to me. I have all of these things in my life, right, that gave the parole board confidence that they can stop the standard conditions of me having to report and the rest of it.

I would still go back to prison if there was any suspicion that I would. was up to no good or otherwise. I'd be straight back there, but I'm just not monitored in the way that is standard operating procedure for others. Where's the first holiday that you talk? Like, what's the first meal even? Yeah, like, there's just the thing that you did

when you're free and you're like, I can travel, I can be a human again. Like, there was literally, I've been dying to know what is your first day on the outside after being in prison for over a decade because you must fantasize about what you would do when you got out. Yeah, and I'll tell you.

Because I was low security by the time I was released, that meant that I had to go through a staged process to prepare me for release, which meant staggered release into the community that was supervised. So I think the first release I did was for two hours, where I was allowed to go in the community and then come back to the prison. And then that would stretch out to like a 24-hour period, and then eventually a 72-hour period. And you would go out and come back. And that's a really wise thing that the parole board does. to try and make the integration easy. The irony is, is if you're really high security with no support, no people who can sponsor you and look after you in that way

and take you out and you're too high security for the prison to do it, then actually you're more likely to end up out cold after a long period of time. Whereas for me, it was more staged and staggered. And look, there was heaps to it. But I tell you one thing I would do every single time I was released, regardless, regardless, every time I got to go out, and on the first day I was out, and that is, for a swam in the ocean.

Oh, yeah. I would have had that on my bingo card. Ocean swim. Honestly, that is freedom. You want to ask me what freedom feels like? It's riding a bicycle or being swamming, right? Swimming in an ocean or a river, being on a bike. If that doesn't embody the feeling of freedom, I don't know what does, eh?

So that's something I would do every time. One more question I want to know is what would be your advice to someone that's going into prison? to get through, say they're going and they're looking at a 10-year sentence, what would be your advice to them? My advice would be twofold. Firstly, while you're in there, your focus needs to be doing on everything that you can that will enable you to be successful when you are released. And, you know, like a piece of advice that I'd give a lot of people is to go on segregation,

to go on protection. And that means you're not in the mainstream where all the gangs are. where it's most predatory and it means that you're going to be in a better position to be able to try and study and do other things. Now that is not the standard prison mentality is that if you're on protection

then you're an undesirable person you're not an upstanding member of the prison community but who wants to be an upstanding member of the prison community? Who cares about the opinions of people who are in prison right? You want to be doing things to invest in your future? That would be one of the things I'd say and the other piece would be

know that this can just be a chapter in your story, it doesn't have to be the defining thing, and just keep doing the work to make sure that's the case. Gosh. You're a wise man. Amazing. It makes sense that you're a psychologist and a motivational speaker. I feel so motivated by your story.

You're an amazing communicator. Just for my colleagues who actually are psychologists and who are registered, I'm a doctor of psychology. Doctor of psychology, not a practising. So I can't come and sit in your office and talk about my issues. You can get me to your conference for a keynote where I'm a show pony on the loose or something like that I ought to facilitate a workshop

But none of the clinical stuff You know that's the hard yards That my colleagues are doing Who have gone through that registration Well Paul's chucked together a mental fitness course And he's got a 50% off discount for edge listeners If you text Sorry if you use the code edge

On Paul Wood.com Maybe you know Paul's been talking about something That's really struck a chord with you And you've been through a lot Paul and you've got a lot more life experience than almost everyone that you come across. So I imagine you've got a lot of knowledge and wisdom to impart. Yeah, 100%. But, hey, listen, and I want to say this in reference to your comment about me saying wise things,

we're all works and progress. And one of the biggest journeys for us as people is closing the gap between what we know and what we actually do, right? And all of us know so much around what could improve our life and make it better. And sometimes it's just about taking those small steps that close the gap. gap between the knowledge and what we're actually doing. Bloody brilliant, Paul. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom

and opening up about your story today. You're a champion, mate. Thank you. Such a pleasure. Rover. Music, radio, podcasts.