The Entrepreneur DNA - The Strategy That Will Revolutionize The Future of Real Estate | Will Denis | EP 42

Episode Date: October 21, 2024

To learn more about 'Reverse Flipping', Go to: https://thescienceofreverseflipping.com/     In this episode, I interview real estate expert Will Dennis, who introduces "Reverse Flipping," a game-changing strategy for real estate investors and agents. Will explains how reverse flipping involves buying the deed to properties with complex legal or financial issues—such as negative equity, bankruptcies, and reverse mortgages—and then solving the problems before choosing an exit strategy. By acquiring ownership upfront, investors eliminate competition and gain flexibility in how they handle the property, whether through rental, wholesale, or fix-and-flip. Will shares insights from his own experience, emphasizing the profitability and recession-proof nature of this strategy while offering advice on how to get started. 🔑 Ready to unlock the power of reverse flipping? Take action now: Visit ReverseFlip.com/Justin Submit your deals and learn more about how reverse flipping can help you turn dead leads into profitable opportunities! 👉 https://reverseflip.com/justin   Join the Reverse Flipping Facebook Group Connect with like-minded investors, ask questions, and dive deeper into this game-changing real estate strategy. 👉 Join the Facebook Group   Follow Will Dennis on Instagram (@WillyNumbers) Stay updated with more real estate tips, success stories, and behind-the-scenes content from Will Dennis. 👉 Instagram: @Willynumbers   Submit Your Dead or Complex Deals Have a tricky real estate deal you can’t figure out? Submit it to Will's team and let them handle the complexities! 👉 Submit Your Deal   Watch the Free Reverse Flipping Webinar Learn the full details of reverse flipping in Will’s free, hour-long webinar and discover how to get started today. 👉 Watch the Webinar     The #1 training and coaching system to launch, grow, and scale your investing business! 𝐋𝐞𝐚𝐫𝐧 𝐌𝐨𝐫𝐞: http://www.thescienceofflipping.com Turn cold real estate leads into engaged motivated sellers on auto-pilot using the power of A.I! 𝐋𝐞𝐚𝐫𝐧 𝐌𝐨𝐫𝐞: https://www.rocketly.ai/ Have a question? Ask me anything at https://www.askjustin.ai/ 𝐀𝐛𝐨𝐮𝐭 𝐉𝐮𝐬𝐭𝐢𝐧: After investing in real estate for over 17 years and almost 3000 deals done, Justin has created a business that generates 7 figures in active income through wholesaling and fix and flipping as well as accumulating millions of dollars of rental properties including 5 apartment buildings, 50+ single family homes, and 1 storage facility Justins longevity in real estate is due to his ability to look around the corners, adapt to changing markets, perfecting Raising private capital, and focusing on lead generation which allows him to not just wholesale and fix & flip, but also accumulate wealth through long term holds. His success in real estate led him to start The Entrepreneur DNA podcast and The Science Of Flipping podcast and education company, where he has coached and mentored thousands of aspiring and active investors over the last decade. He is a nationally recognized speaker and is on a mission to educate as many people as possible on becoming a successful dynamic real estate investor. 𝑾𝒉𝒂𝒕 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝑷𝒓𝒐𝒔 𝑯𝒂𝒗𝒆 𝑻𝒐 𝑺𝒂𝒚 𝑨𝒃𝒐𝒖𝒕 𝑱𝒖𝒔𝒕𝒊𝒏:  “Justin is one of the best trainers in this space. He really gives everything to his tribe.” – Brent Daniels (TTP) “Justin’s ability to connect with people and help them understand what he is teaching, is unparallelled” – Kent Clothier (REWW) “We have been in the trenches flipping homes in Phoenix for over a decade, he is one of the best to do it.” – Sean Terry (Flip2Freedom) Subscribe To Justin Colby: http://youtube.com/justincolby View All My Videos: https://www.youtube.com/c/JustinColby

So if you've been in this space at all, if you've been wholesaling, if you've been breaking your brain up against a wall, right? And you've, oh my God, this seller has 20 other people, which is true, especially in an area like South Florida. Dude, how would you like it to speak to a seller that not only has no other option, right? No one else can figure out the problem. You're the only person standing in front of them. And usually what their response is to that person when I was doing this face to face with sellers was, well, you can't buy this. Everyone is trying.

When I hear that, I get excited and I'm like, oh, but I can and I can figure it out. So that's typically the conversation that you're having. And then of course, we brought it in house. We brought the servicing in house right and all that. And that's why our entire model is JVing with people. Like, all you gotta do is go find these things, get them under contract or by the deed with a limited POA, and you bring them to us,

and then you just put on your seatbelt, dude, and get paid. What's up, the entrepreneur DNA family? I am back with another incredible guest. If you are in real estate in any shape, whether you're a realtor or you're an investor, you are gonna want to know who he is and you are gonna want to know what reverse flipping is. Will Dennis is in the house. What's up, bro? Appreciate it, bro. Excited to be here. Let's do this. So, bro, you blew my mind about two weeks ago. I've been in this space for 17 years. Long time. Two weeks

ago, you're like, Colby, I got this is it. This is it I'm murdering it on this. So let's just tell the people immediately What is reverse flipping? All right, so Basically, you know my story. I got started about eight years ago and a typical wholesaler What a reverse flip is it's buying the deed to a property upfront, not taxed deeds. This is straight direct to seller, typically off market, but it works on market too. So you buy the deed to the property and you fix all the hair, right? For lack of a better term, this is basically your dead deals, your dead leads, et cetera, you know, no equity, negative equity, upside down, reverse mortgages, bankruptcies, pre-foreclosure,

multiple heirs to a situation, IRS liens, right? Those kinds of things. You buy the deed upfront, you clean up the problem, right through through our company, and then you can choose your exit after the fact. So I called it reverse flipping because as you know, being in the business, you typically close on the deal, then you do the work and and then, God willing, you make a profit if it's a fix and flip four or five months down the road. If it's a wholesale, maybe it's a double close, maybe it's not. In this scenario, you're buying the deed, so you eliminate all the competition right

there because there's no more contracts, there's no more circumvention, right? And now you're fixing the problem, and then you have choice. As an investor, that's what we want, right? It's choice and freedom. Now you have the choice to say, do I want to burr this? Do I want to keep this? Do I want to sub to it? Do I want to novate it? Do I want to whole tail it? Do I want to fix and flip it? Or do I just want to wholesail it? Yeah. Yeah. So the challenge everyone is feeling right now in the real estate space. Competition, market is tough, no inventory.

Tough, yeah. I would say this seems like the obvious answer. Yeah, so you know even going back to 07-08 which I wasn't around in the space, but you were right and talking to a lot of my mentors. Back then, doing deals became extremely difficult. Equity was on the downward right, there was no buyers and all that stuff. So the deals that work best in a market like that are in a downward market or in a tough market is creatives. Yeah. Luckily for me, I had a mentor that taught me a variation of this about five

years ago. So I started buying deeds to properties. And you know, we'll kind of get into the story of how the whole reverse flipping thing came out. But basically, I was already doing that for five years. And anytime I'd run into a property that was just like a dead end, nobody wanted and we just couldn't figure it out. That's the one. That was the one. And we just started buying the deeds. And we're talking about, and keep in mind, I'm in South Florida, right?

So very expensive values, as you know, $2,000, $3,000, $1,000. To buy the deed for $2,000. So you have ownership in this property. A lot of my deals, man, get done with $0, right? And you can even tie in the sellers to the background, you know, to the backend of the deal, heirs work as well. Yeah.

So this is a very effective strategy for like 20 different reasons, right? And you're also getting the tax. So when you say you're tying in the heirs or the owners to the backend, meaning you share some revenue with them on the backend sale of whatever happens. Not revenue, but for example, if an owner wants,

I'm just gonna make up numbers, but if an owner wants, well, I want 10,000 bucks. That's fine. So as an investor, we're trying to mitigate our risk, right? So I'll give you a thousand upfront and I'll give you nine once I fix it. Can I curse on the show? Yeah, of course.

Once I fix this pile of shit, then I'll give you the nine. Yeah. And now you're into this deal for a thousand bucks, but you own it day one. Oh, this is brilliant. This is why I'm excited. This is... So you can even give an upside to the seller to incentivize them. You want to work with me, so you can get your number. Might get a little creative. This is, again, this is like a creative finance strategy and that's why, you know,

there isn't one right way or wrong way to do creative financing no there's not and you know that's the beauty when you know having wholesaled like 600 transactions right and a lot of the the typical stuff five years ago i just i don't know why but i'm pretty good at solving complex shit yeah i like them um you know it helps that we have the best team in florida from a legal perspective, right? The title side, all that kind of stuff. And then we can get into the servicing company and the processing company that we ended up buying

in the process. Well, so for the average person watching this, whether they're a realtor or investors, works for both, right? Anyone who's in the real estate space. Absolutely. All realtors, by the way, should be an investor. I don't understand why they're not.

It doesn't make sense to me. You're doing the same thing we're doing. But you're taking like the lower value sticker price, which is the 3%. Yeah. So realtors work with us a lot. And now we have a huge network, and it's only growing by the day, where I always tell realtors,

I'm like, don't fall into the myth and the bullshit that they fed you at you know Go to school and all this crap. They oh, it's 3% I mean the NAR just told you that you're not worth 3% Pretty much what it is. Yeah, I would love to be in a business And I always wanted to be in business where I dictate the terms and nobody can come along to say bloop Well, you're not making that anymore Hey real estate hustlers. Are you sick and tired of seeing potential deals fall through the cracks?

You know the ones, they're looking promising but now they're just dead leads sitting there collecting dust. Well it's time to change that and it starts with the science of reverse flipping. Imagine if you could breathe life into those deals, save on taxes and boost your real estate portfolio like never before. With the science of reverse flipping you get exclusive access to our in-house legal team, the country's top loss mitigation pros and three live weekly calls with investors who've closed over 3,000 deals combined. These are the guys who know

how to make the impossible possible and they want to help you do the same. You either want every unfair advantage or don't. Every deal you let slip by is money lost and every day you wait is missed opportunity. But with the science of reverse flipping you can turn those no's into yeses and those dead listings into deeds. Visit thescienceofreverseflipping.com now to join the community of serious investors who are taking action. Don't wait for deals to come to you, go out there and take them. Visit science of reverse flipping dot com today and let's get those leads working for you. Well so a realtor should effectively how many I mean I'm just kind of thinking immediately if you're watching this and you're a realtortor should effectively, how many, I mean, I'm just kind of thinking immediately

if you're watching this and you're a realtor, you should be thinking, how many people have I put a listing on the market that could never really get there because maybe it was a short sale, maybe it was a probate, maybe you had seven different heirs and we couldn't get them all lined up. So people would make offers, the heirs would always argue,

you couldn't get the deal closed. Realtors should be the one coming in and either doing it themselves or finding you finding me people that know how to do this and say, Hey guys, I have a deal that this will never sell the regular MLS. Yeah, so we do a couple things on that. So we do get a lot of deals from Realtors. Yeah, either through our own efforts or usually now and again, we can get into the details,

I haven't done marketing in 14 months so not an ounce. So that should tell you everything right, so realtors come to us and it's typically when they hit a dead end and they're like hey got no idea right how to do this short sale etc. They're mostly largely tied around debt to some way, that's a great trigger for your audience. But these realtors, they should absolutely be finding these deals. And if I was a realtor or even a wholesaler, right? Wholesaling right now sucks. You've been in the game, I've been in the game. I mean, cost per lead sucks. Cost per deal sucks. Especially in a market like Phoenix or South Florida. Dude, the cost per deal in South Florida is seven to eight grand.

Terrible. I mean, that's like if you're good. And you're gonna spend a lot to get there. Well and you, yeah, you might bankrupt yourself in the process. Right, just to go get the first deal so you can get some momentum going, right? You also have 25 dipshits to every deal that's offering your seller 2,000 more, 5,000 more, right? Then even if you get the contract, you got 25 dipshits going around your back to talk to the seller, right?

So now you gotta sue the seller, et cetera. If any of this sounds familiar, you know what I'm talking about, ask me how I know. So once you buy the deed, it's over. You own it, it's done. I think it's hilarious. My attorney's usually the guy listed on the deed. They actually cold call and skip trace him

and try to cold call him and I'm like, he owns it. There's no circumvention. So what is the first, first of all, go to reverseflip.com forward slash Justin. If you're a realtor and investor, reverseflip.com forward slash Justin. So they all know that you came from here, but start getting the deals done

that you're already working. That is first and paramount. Easiest way. Just buy that website, go there immediately, start going now. Let's start talking about the bigger picture of what you have actually working. This isn't just, hey go find a hairy deal and that's the deal you want. You actually have like two law smith reps that have had 20 years of experience in negotiating. This is all in house, in your office, working every day. Yeah, so again, short, short version of the story. Necessity is the mother of all invention, right?

I had a business divorce in 2022. When I did that, I asked myself one very, very important question. I said, do I want to rebuild out a massive operation like what I had for wholesaling? And the answer was a resounding no. I just didn't want to do it again. Totally. You get a little older, you're like, no, dude, this is brain damage. It's a lot. So at that time, I had about 23 deeds that we had bought. And thankfully, I bought out my ex-partner.

And this is where the whole story kind of ties in. So as I was resetting and restarting my career my life and all this stuff, I didn't I think I took like a week to think about it and if that and the idea was okay let's start working these deals and as we started to work these deals, started making 100k a deal, 150k on a deal, 90k on a deal, kept seven of those rentals right at still own them till this day, didn't pay taxes for three years because I had over $10 million worth of real estate. That's what happens when you own the deed, by the way. You could buy a deed for $0.

Now you have all the tax appreciation. So we can get into that. But as we were solving these issues, we were using these consultants. And it was referred to me by a good friend. And these guys had multiple years of experience, right? Working for HUD. And all they did at HUD was write the HUD guidelines.

Oh, that's it? That's it. So, so basically any HUD, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Jenny Mae, all that stuff, they wrote the guidelines for those things. So nobody understands how loss mitigation or how these mortgages works. And I will give that tip to anybody. The reason why I went from the wholesaler, right? Even though I was in the 1% of the 1% of wholesalers,

you know, making 8 million bucks a year to transcending that to, holy shit, now I'm a real investor and now, you know, we make tens of millions of dollars. The reason why that was able to happen was because I educated myself. And if you understand the game, you understand the rules to the game, aka debt, legal, etc. You can write your own ticket, you know, and

that's so once we did that, they were so good at what they were doing that after about the 10th one, we decided to buy the company and and we literally rolled them in house. We made them partners. And we said, look, you guys are doing about 90 deals, 70 deals a year. Yeah. We're thinking a little bit bigger, maybe 700 to 1000 a year, just a little bit bigger. And we're going to expand this. And and I also knew by being an educator in the space and being in all the masterminds, right for years and years and years, I never you could tell me this, because you've been in it longer

than me. Have you ever heard anyone at any of our masterminds talk about this kind of stuff? Like in detail. So I knew that the marketplace had a big ass opportunity for it but more importantly as putting myself in the shoes of that person who was once the wholesaler trying to come up right and chasing that dangling carrot. How do you make more money? Well, you got to spend more money in marketing, right? That bullshit, which is a myth, by the way. I knew that the marketplace needed it and I knew that my students needed it. So then I taught it to my students and I was like, all right, well, I can do it, but can they do it?

And then they started doing it and a 26 year old kid made 1.2 million last year in Miami alone with a team of three, two VAs and him. So this is like, it's 25 deals, man. I mean, that wasn't a lot of volume, right? Like, so specifically to give people like, he's 23. Six. Six. Where was he finding these deals? So the deals are just hairy deals. Yeah. And he was already doing some marketing. So these were typically his dead deals. Dead deals. Yeah. So dead leo dead, we call it we're turning dead leads into deeds. That's that's our slogan. That's what it is

It's pretty catchy. I'm not gonna lie. I like it. Probably take credit for them, but you know, and it works, right? So Again, there's no competition and that's the other thing too. That's a big big thing, by the way No, that's massive So if you've been in this space at all if you've been wholesaling if you've been breaking your brain up against a wall, right? And you've oh my god, the seller has 20 other people which is true, especially in this space at all, if you've been wholesaling, if you've been breaking your brain up against a wall, right? And you've, oh my God, this seller has 20 other people, which is true, especially in an area like South Florida. Dude, how would you like it to speak to a seller that not only has no other option,

no one else can figure out the problem, you're the only person standing in front of them. And usually what their response is to that person when I was doing this face to face with sellers was, well, you can't buy this, everyone is trying. When I hear that, I get excited and I'm like, oh, but I can, and I can figure it out. So that's typically the conversation that you're having.

And then of course, we brought it in-house, we brought the servicing in-house and all that. And that's why our entire model is jv'ing with people like all you got to do is go find these things get them under contract or buy the deed with a limited poa yeah and you bring them to us and then you just put on your seat belt so when they go to reverseflip.com Justin that's them just giving you a deal to do a jv correct i would tell you guys listening and watching do that because for you to try to learn what these guys are already doing, it's gonna take you the seven years

of beating your head against the wall. It would be impossible because these, you'd have to duplicate 21 years of loss mitigation experience and working at HUD for eight years. So it would literally be, I mean, the way that we understand as a company, how the loss mitigation and the short sale works,

and that's just one aspect right bankruptcy works how Probates work our attorney who's in how right the way that we understand that is what gives us the competitive edge And by the way the average sword tail if if this is a real statistic for your audience About 53% of all short tails in America fall out. They never get completed That is a fact you feel free to fact check. And is there a reason? Do you know the reason? Bad documentation is the first one. Okay. And bad processing, meaning that they didn't submit the documents in the right form. Yeah. And they didn't know what department to go through.

Interesting. Yeah. So I'll give you a can I give a quick example? Yeah. So if you're watching this and you're in Miami Dade, so Cutler Bay, Miami Dade County, very hot market. This property has an ARV of 800. There was a guy who I personally know, awesome investor, right? Realtor brought him a short sale, standard, right? Was on the market for about three months. He calls me one day, this is maybe two, three weeks ago,

and he's like, hey dude, I got this deal. We got to the closing table, and we got the payoff for the first position, but turns out that there was a second position mortgage, yay, right? And nobody could find it. And he said, do you guys think you could find it? And I said, I guarantee you we could find it.

So within 48 hours, my guys found the second position. Not only did they find it, but they moved the second position underneath the first position. So now they combined it into one payoff. By the way, that second position was $150,000 mortgage. Okay, now a total payoff of 4.30 has been negotiated for both.

Because the second new, well if the first goes to foreclosure, I'm shit out of luck. So nine grand is better than no grand, which is what they're getting. We are wholesaling this deal now for 5.90 without swinging a hammer in less than 30 days. That's 150k spread, okay, on a wholesale deal off of that.

And it was only because the agent didn't know how to get it through. Didn't know how to get it through, also did not know how to find the second. And by the way, there was a short sale specialist that was helping them to do this. Couldn't do it. So do you guys ever get like pushback from agents or is this where because I can I can hear agents already. Oh, I already know how to do that. I already know how to do that. Yeah, just say, All right, well, then go do it and come back to me when it doesn't happen.

So I have two things to say on that. Number one, I don't chase any deals. Yeah, you're either gonna do a deal with me or you're not. Okay, I'm not here to convince you of my value. I'm certainly not here to waste your time. We're buying two to three deeds a day. Yeah, We don't have that time. So I think when you approach people that way, they feel that energy. And let's be honest, part of that is not gonna work out.

I've been comfortable with that for years now as I'm sure you are too. So that's one. Two, there's no reason for that agent not to work with you. And it's very simple. Hey, listen, I see it's been sitting on the market now for 300 days. Yeah, it has. Okay, let's take ego out of the way for a second. All

right. You're still going to make your commission. Why? Because by by federal law, the bank's going to pay you the 3% anyway. That's right. We will guarantee you the 3%. Let our team take a crack at it. And I promise you, we're gonna get this done. I haven't seen a realtor that said no. And if they do, that's not a realtor I want to work with anyway. That's right. And so is there any like is this a crazy amount of paperwork people need to come up with? Is it like over the top? No. No

that's the crazy thing. So there's two ways to really do these deals right and each way has two documents. Okay. Very simple. First way is your typical wholesale contract. alright? Use whichever one you want. If you're in Florida, use mine, consult with an attorney, but use mine. And a limited POA. Yeah. A limited power of attorney. Second way is my favorite way. Get a deed, quick claim deed, from the seller or the heirs. Mm-hmm. And get the limited POA. So those are the two ways to do it. The first question I'm having if I'm listening to this or watching this.

Sure. Why would they give you a deed? Why would the owner of the home give you their ownership of the home? It's a great question. So number one, they have tried and tried and tried probably 15, 20 times to sell this deal. And they're at a point where they're like,

they got no option. That's right. So that's where your negotiating comes into play You can structure I've structured D deeds with zero dollars, right? Structured them all the way up the most I've ever paid for a deed by the way is $15,000 15,000 The most $15,000 for an asset that was making I made 111 I mean, I want everyone to understand even pure economics if you invest 15,000 something you make a hundred grand back It's like a seven times ROAS, right? Like your return on your investment.

Yeah. And even the better question after that, what was my ROT, my return on time because it took 63 days. Wow. Yeah. So annualized, it's compounded at like 10s of 1000s of percents or whatever. This is so genius. Like I can't, I'm pretty geeked up. So again, reverseflip.com It is so genius. Like I can't... I'm pretty geeked up, so again, reverseflip.com It is pretty fucking cool. I mean, to me this is the thing right now that like this is the game-changer. Because by the way, there's no economic time where it doesn't work. No, actually we're not gonna get into politics or anything

like that, but where the market is, where the interest rates are, where the affordability, all the crazy shit show propping up the market that we've seen in the last four years. I don't give a shit if it's Kamala or Trump or whoever the hell, right, or the fucking tooth fairy that gets into office. It's irrelevant. Like the market will shift. It already is cooling off. We're seeing it even in South Florida, days on market are higher, right?

So as an economy goes into a downward economy, and I can prove it to you, in the state of Florida alone, bankruptcy filings year over year are up 33%. So that just tells me that's one metric, right? Defaults are up by another 25%. We bought one in Jacksonville the other day that was literally a 2024 construction, six month old loan, seller just walked away, gave us the deed, we're taking it over sub two. That is wild. And so, and this goes into, you can also even structure just more different creative finance deals

from where you already have it. You keep it as a rental, you take it over sub two, because the loan's good. I mean, there's so many options. This is why I'm saying investors and realtors alike, they need to be giving you these deals. I mean, they have to start filling out those forms to give you the deals because they're everywhere and you're talking about a downward

market, right? Because that's where we're at. I'll make the argument and I know you're gonna agree in a appreciating market, they're still divorced, they're still bankruptcy, they're still death, right? They're still bad loans, they over leverage themselves into, you know, a tsunami. It doesn't matter It's basically recession proof for lack better way you saying it it is because I'll give this simple analogy If you're already doing this business, whether it's a realtor wholesaler flipper, I don't care right sub to or whatever the hell you want to call it You are using a screwdriver

manual crank I'm coming to you with a fucking power drill with all the drill bits you need to go and the work that takes you an hour. Yeah, you can get it done in 20 seconds. Yeah. Why wouldn't you do that? Why wouldn't you? Yeah. I mean, I'm thinking in my database, the second and saying my entire team to scrub this database to go over dead leads. And the reason of why they were dead. I'm just gonna say here's the five things we're looking for go find all the you know, divorce or inheritance short

sale, whatever the case, and I'm just gonna go have them give you all my leads. There's so many myths. I mean, look, we could talk about it if you'd like. I mean, I chimed into your community. Yeah, right. What was it two hours later, somebody got a deed in your community, and then the next day, there was another two guys that got deeds. So again, taught it to newer people, more experienced people, it's not rocket science, right?

You're just changing how you're doing the deal, but you're also talking to the right people. This business, and this is more like a personal thing for me, and you've been in it seeing them all come and go right all the educators that we're talking about that's right the shit that's been peddled in our business it's trash right it's just it's redundant it's the same it's the same thing dude everybody's just saying another variation right novations were a hot topic right right we know who was the biggest guy in them he's a good friend of mine he's a beast and then all of a

sudden there's 10 guys. Oh my God. And there'll probably be 10 copycats out there. We can do this too. And that's great, but they'll never have the sauce that we have and the servicers and that company, right? And we, when I got into education, my model from the very beginning was

I want to create a community that's, we're JVing with each other. I don't want a pump and dump and one and done with you. That's right. Most of my students stick rate their community members is over a year. Yep. Right? So we're doing deals again and again and again because they get it. They say well I go find this, I bring it back, my job is done and I'm always making double, triple the average deal size even on a JV. 100%. So what is the first thing that you would say someone needs to start thinking about how to think about it? Where to go? What

would you advise someone today right now? Like, I use this podcast is how is Will Dennis going to change someone's life today? Sure. You have a huge story. And by the way, if you haven't seen his first podcast we did together, go to the science of flipping podcast show we did a straight up hardcore full story blown out story, the business divorce, the 7 million almost 8 million in a year wholesaling that is on another episode, you'll find

that somewhere in the comment section below. But what would you tell someone right now, even if they haven't even thought about where they're like, Oh, I want a piece of this. Sure. What would you tell them to go do? Well, first things first, join our free Facebook group. Yeah. It's a community that grows by the day.

There's already people in there that are doing deals, right? And asking questions. So you could partner with somebody and somebody that's already doing it, right? That's already reverse flipping. Secondly, you could just download a list, right? Just like you would in the regular wholesale, but just make it, you know, go after reverse mortgages, right? Go after things that nobody's going after, and you don't need much money to get started on that. That's

the key. There's so many things I want to bring up. So, yeah, this isn't like some big marketing budget, go do $20,000 a month in PPC, go rip 10 grand a month in TV. No, that is not what I teach right? That is not what I teach This is look this is coming to you from a guy that did that for seven years Multiple six-figure a month marketing budget, right almost and you have the scars like crazy. Oh hell Yeah, right, but and I was proud that I did that sure but this is smarter not harder Yeah, why is it a volume? Do you know people especially on Instagram in our spaces educators? Oh, I did 38 deals this month Do you really give a shit? I don't care. That's a vanity metric Yeah, I stopped tracking that a lot. If you did three and you made three hundred thousand dollars doing three pretty cool. Although

Through through our market and you market and our JV structure, we're buying about 60 homes a month. So that's not to say that we're not doing high volume, but this is what I'll challenge any other guru or whatever in this space. Show me 50, 60 deals a month with an average deal size of 70K. And I'll wait.

There's no way. I'll wait. Yeah, you'll be here for a while. while yeah and show me how you're building a eight figure rental portfolio through this process with little to no money because I'll wait again yeah and then show me a community that you've taught that can do that and that is doing that and I'll wait again so again that's that's maybe my fuck you piece to the whole community of the educators and I got no problem with them. But the thing is the same regurgitated shit has been peddled and man I'm sick and tired of it

because there is a better way to do it and to be a real investor. So there's you said something right there that I wanted to hit on. This is really real estate investing and wholesaling is fine. It has this place, right? I still wholesale, blah. We talked about your wholesaling one, great. But there's a bigger upside of why you want to be a real real estate investor. The big thing is the tax write-off. It's massive. Talk to us about how this could be a utility for all those people who are like, great, I make a lot of money but I need more tax write-offs because I also am paying that money out. Yeah, so

High-level about every million dollars that you own in real estate Depending on your tax filing and all that it's probably thirty to fifty thousand dollars per year in in non taxable income Right straight to your bottom line on your taxes so if Let's just would you agree that the average? So, if let's just, would you agree that the average property value in America is 300 right now? Yeah, a little higher, but about that. Let's be conservative. 300 across the country, right?

Cool. So if you bought a deed to a property for a thousand bucks, which we do every time, we did two of them yesterday, thousand bucks, and it's worth 300,000, you just bought $300,000 worth of depreciating income in a real estate asset. That's right. So do that 10 times a year. That's 3 million. You're not paying taxes. You have $120,000 give or take per year tax credit every say that's per year. That's right. On a 27 and a half year schedule. Don't even get me started on going creative and going cost seg and accelerating depreciation because now you're capturing way more than that. I

haven't paid taxes in three and a half years legally by the way Mr. IRS and that's the reason why. That's why everyone needs to be in real estate even for those listening as a W2 employee. This is one of those strategies that if you just did four a year, one quarter, yeah and you do it the way you're exactly saying and they just held it. Yeah. And you do it the way you're exactly saying. And they just held it. Yeah. I got a lot of guys that are in our circle

that come to me and they're like, dude, I just buy one of these D's and just hold it. I'm like, absolutely. Sure. And by the way, this also works on a million dollar property. You'd think, oh, we can't tap. So that's another part. This isn't segmented into the price of the home.

No. And to the point, it could and to the point it could be a department It could be a storage facility. You'd be a no commercial mall strip. It could be anything. Yeah, and and that's what I was gonna say this is not segmented to just Residential real estate this happens on the commercial side. Totally right. There's receiverships There's all that stuff which a receivership is basically a bankruptcy sale Yeah with a trustee on the commercial side the commercial guys will know what that is dude this happens all the time people think that sub two's can't happen on commercial yeah it can and you can reverse flip every single one of them right and another couple things like good i want to leave you know the audience with

like some good tangible things um reverse mortgages we have been taught in our business, oh you can't do anything with them, they suck. They're amazing, I'm telling you. In this strategy. In this strategy. Unbelievable. And you can reinstate reverse mortgages. It does not just have to go into foreclosure. And this is the secret sauce, is you have guys with 20 years of loss-imit experience that know exactly to the gnats ass how to negotiate this time. I like that expression. Yeah. Nat's ass. I'm gonna use that one. But this is why people need to work with you. If you don't know, go to reverseflip.com forward slash Justin. Start working with Willie immediately because if you have these deals in your pipeline, if you're working these deals doing

any marketing or even just want to get started. Yes. I would tell everyone I'm working with you. Yeah. Like everyone should be working with you. Yeah and so many, you know, community leaders like you and I have had a great friendship for years, right? But there's a lot of our friends that have communities too. Yeah. That now have me going into the communities, right? And we're teaching this stuff and now their students and community members are coming over here and doing these types of deals. Because again, if we're being honest, the industry as a whole has a lot of pain right now. Yep. There's a lot of pain. Then there's a lot of people making it look pretty and that's cool, right? And you can rent all the Lambos that you want. But the reality is there is a lot of pain and there's not a lot of real people doing real deals.

That's right. And the cost per lead, the cost per deal keeps going up, dude. And look again, do you want to talk to a thousand people to do a deal? Or do you want to talk to ten to do two deals? So again, you've already said it, but a couple of lists that they could go target, right? Yeah. Short sale, divorce. Short sales on market or off market, by the way. You could pivot them from a realtor on market. Those are free leads right there. There's a free nugget for you right there. 100%. Go do a search in your

local market. Ping all the active pendings and active with contracts with short sales. Filter out 200 plus days. By the way, we process short sales in 30 to 45 days. That's insane timing. So if a short sale, if you see a short sale on the market with a realtor that has 150 plus days, just remember my face and my voice, somebody fucked up. And that is an opportunity for you to go and convert that and just give the realtor their commission. It's a free fucking lead. In Miami-Dade County, Broward County, and Palm Beach County, so South Florida alone, I did the search yesterday with my team, there's 149. This is just sitting there and these things have 400 days 300 days 600 days. We're picking them up I mean, you know, you're putting in offers and saying let us but the conversation still has to be we got to do the negotiating

Of course a hundred percent which they will not say you will have some dipshit realtors Of course you will there's dipshits in every, you know, there's clowns in every circus, right? But the majority of them are gonna be like, who the fuck do I have to lose? I'm tired. Because how does a realtor make money? They only make money when the deal closes. That's right. So if you're sitting there with a listing for 300 days and you're like, oh my god, what

am I gonna do? This guy comes along and says, hey, we can figure this out. We got the best short sale specialist in the country. At that point, do you just need the power of attorney? Yeah, you even need a purchase. You do need a purchase agreement. So is there a percentage that you start to offer on the short sales just to keep it a short sale so it's

below the bank loan? Or do you do you treat that a little bit more normal when you go after the short sales where it's like, all right, where would this deal make sense? So that's that's part of what our team does. And they you know, we do have deal analysis for you. And we're coming out now with a report if you're in our community, where if you have, we don't work with leads, we work with deeds, right? Or with deals.

So you have to have something on their contract. I'm not the guy you're gonna come to and be like, hey, I got this seller, go into the community for that. And the community will answer those questions. And then you can convert them. Now our team is available for you, right? You've been mobile notary, this, that, that's part of the JV structure. But if I had to give it a percentage, probably 75 to 80% of what that property is listed

for. Yeah. Basically, that's where you want to be. You know, another common mistake of a short sale is they submit way too low of an offer in and it gets kicked right back. That's right. You have to remember too, man, a lot of these short sale servicers, the way that it works in the country is Fannie Mae is like Jesus. Okay, sits on top of everybody. Fannie Mae has 30 million loans. Okay, they're the big daddy. And that's Uncle Sam. Okay, that's Uncle Sam's daughter. She's hot and she's got a lot of money.

Okay, she doesn't fuck around. She doesn't put up for anybody. Just for lack of a better term. Beneath that, there's about a lot of money. Yeah. She doesn't fuck around. She doesn't put out for anybody. Just for lack of a better term. Beneath that, there's about 60 servicers. These are PHH, Mr. Cooper, Shell Point, Aquin. I mean, the list goes on and on. All these servicers have different investors

behind them, private investors, public fund, pension fund. I mean, not to get so nitty gritty. Sure. All of those have different processes for submitting short sales and for submitting loss mint, which is why the fuck it's so goddamn difficult to do and why we're so good at it because we have the experience of 20 plus years to do that.

That's right. So what I'm saying by that is, you just need to figure out where where when you tie up the deal, just bring it to us. We figured out where that deal fits. That's right. And what the highest, we have about a 70% success ratio, by the way. 70 of all these deals go through. Yeah. The wholesaling market and industry doesn't even have a 30% fallout rate. Like you're a stud if you have that. 100%. And by the way, I'll urge any realtor or wholesaler seeing this right now. If you do, your fallout contracts are these

fucking deals. That's right. The 30% they usually fall out because of this shit. They're hairy. They're hairy. Yeah. So look, no, I picked a niche that nobody wanted to deal with and I said fuck it, I'll be the janitor, I'll clean up the shit. Turns out shit makes a lot of money well and you put a system behind it man don't don't you know fool yourself you took something and said okay a lot of brute force to start sure but let me how do we systemize this how do we put a structure behind it so it's a repetition where you can just rinse and repeat all the time that that's why you're able to do what you're able to do no and I

appreciate that you know I think know, relationship capital is something we talk about all the time, right? I always say this, dude, to all my students and anyone I meet, I'm like, amateurs compete, professionals collaborate. So if you want to be a dipshit, go ahead, go out there and compete. No problem, man. You might get to the corner. You want to be a professional, like me, like you, you collaborate. We collaborate. Totally. You JV, you go 50- 50, right? Or whatever that looks

like. You go so much further that way. Why would I want to look, could I go out and build a podcast? I'm sure. Sure. I call it something else. That DNA. I'm sure. Yeah. But you already fucking did it. Yeah. I'd rather come on your show. Come on. I mean, you're going fast. And you got the best audience, right? Why would I do that? I would just collaborate with you, right? And the same thing on the real estate side. You'd be like, well, I've never really done a lot of these. I don't like hairy deals. Fucking, I already lost my hair. Don't need to lose more.

Let me just pivot them all over to you. Yeah. And that's what we do and we service your community, right? We're servicing other people's community. And again, I just want to see people win, dude. That's it. It doesn't have to be that fucking hard. Love that. Yeah and and I'm a hundred percent convinced that based on the feedback and the overwhelming deals you know volume that we're getting this is the future of real

estate. Yeah. And somebody's gonna watch this a year from now and be like holy shit you know they said this a year ago and reverse flipping is 1000% the new way to do real estate. Yep. It's just what it is. Do they have to in the purchase, in the example of the purchase agreement, is it your entity, is it their entity? Who needs to do that first?

That's a great question. So when it's a deed, we put it in a land trust. Okay. The beneficiary to the land trust is our LLC, one of our entities, and then the trustee is their entity. Okay. On the POA, and this is a great point, POAs always have to go to a natural born person,

not an entity. So another reason why short sales get kit packed. Cause they, oh, one, two, three, main street LLC, there's no such thing, right? So it has to go from John Smith to Joe Smith, right? So it's usually a member of our team, that's who's the POA. Why do we need the POA? We didn't really talk about that.

We need the POA so we don't have to go back to the seller and or air 67 times if we needed anything signed. That's right. That's why guys, we're doing a lot of the work on the front end so that you don't have to. And this is, ask me how I know, there's a lot of brain damage of trying it the wrong way and this is exactly what works.

So another reason why a lot of these transactions don't close is time kills all deals. So the faster you can get the documents, the faster you can go back, the less amount of times you have to fix a mistake, you're going to the front of the line. Last thing I'll say on this, speaking of the front of the line, because we ended up purchasing the servicing firm, we now sit at what's called a Fannie Mae preferred vendor. Most people that's gonna drop like a silent bomb, no one's gonna know what that means.

Just know that it takes three years of a process to go through that. And our files go, bloop, to the top of the pile at Fannie Mae and all the other servicers. So again, we're not just making this shit up. We actually have real tangible assets and intellectual property behind this. And that's why we're able to do the deals at the pace that we're able to do them.

Oh my God. I mean, again, guys, reverseflip.com forward slash Justin. What would you really want to kind of leave every like if someone wanted to buy? Let me give you another question. Yeah, let's say you get it negotiated. If they wanted to buy, let me give you another question. Let's say you get it negotiated. If they wanted to buy the deal after you guys got it, how would that work for you guys? You mean the JV? Yeah. So we would have first right of refusal, right?

To buy it, because obviously we're buying and we would buy it at fair rate with them. They could wholesale it to us, but it's not a problem, right? A lot of the times what happens is somebody will bring a deal and it'll be, again, let's say, let's it's not a problem, right? A lot of the times what happens is somebody will bring a deal and it'll be, you know, again, let's say, let's use the average 70K, right? 70K profit.

That's what we could wholesale it for, let's say on the open market. And let's say they're like, hey man, I would say, hey, I wanna keep this as a rental. Well, I'll give you the 35K assignment. Got it, that's not a problem. Yeah, so it would be simple. If they wanted to keep it for a rental, that's fine.

The same inverse, right? You can buy it from us, give us our portion. That's fine. And you're still getting them. By the way, dude, this is crazy to say, but I am I'm going to say this right now on camera. And I don't give a shit. Anybody can fact check me on this. I am probably the only guy in the single family space right now with my team that is buying at under 45 cents on the dollar in America per asset. I believe it. 100% and I'm doing it largely in South Florida. Which is borderline impossible. Which is like saying 10% because it's wild. It's wild but that is our average. It's about 43%. 43 cents on the dollar in layman's terms. Right. That's what we're buying. So the deal, even if you did a JV with us and you were to buy it from us or vice versa, you are so well below in terms of margin. The amount of equity you have, all of it. Dude, it's wild. It's wild. The average equity that we're walking into is $1.50.

Wow. I mean, it's a lot, dude. It's a lot. You're talking about, I've seen younger guys come in here, and they were wholesaling for two, three years. And God bless them, right? Busting their ass and door knocking and this and that. Dude, a couple deals, they're like, what the?

Their life is just, they buy rentals through it. Like they got rentals for life. I mean, they don't have to pay taxes. Like, I don't know about you, but I've stroked a six-figure check to the IRS before. Happened to me one time and it never happened again because I like my butt. Yeah, that's exactly right. How do you want to leave with the people? What were some things that you just want to say, guys, here's what to look for, here's what to do. Go check out reverseflip.com, all that. Yeah, so of course, our main page is reverseflip.com. I recently just did a free webinar for about an hour where I go really in-depth here and the replay is available on that site.

We have an intake form which is also on the reverseflip.com site. You click right through it and you literally can submit your deal right there. Our team is gonna send an email right away, then a member of our team is gonna be in contact with you. Again, you don't have to do anything else past the point of here's the deal, thank you. Now you're gonna be in contact with us and of course you're

gonna have full transparency throughout the entire transaction. Totally. But your involvement stops. You don't have to deal with the seller. You don't have to deal with showing to buyers right? 20 30 hey I got all my contractors coming. Wow there's 16 contractors. Yes. Yes. You don't have to deal with that shit. You don't have to deal with circumvention nothing like that. So reverseflip.com is the main page. The Facebook group is also listed on there as well. It's reverse flipping. Facebook group. Yeah, that I think is a couple hundred people now and we just opened it up a week ago. So it's growing, you know, probably 3040 people a day. My Instagram

willy numbers, right? Yeah, that's where I talk all this content about it, right? I post a shit ton of testimonials and not just testimonials like, hey, I did this and it's great and Willie's an awesome guy. No, actual HUDs with deeds and with profits and with wire transfers. I like to post wire transfers.

I don't post videos inside a property touring it. I post fucking money because that's what I wanna see from gurus, right? Show me what you're making. Don't show me what you're driving. Don't give a shit about your Rolex. Yeah. I care about the money that's coming in right? And yeah, our community is just growing man. That's what I would say. Love it. The hairy dead deals. That's what you want to go after. Guys, willy numbers on Instagram. Will Dennis is his name. Reverseflip.com forward slash Justin. Give him the deals. JV with him now.

I appreciate you being on bro. I appreciate you dude you dude guys if this helped at all in the real estate space or in business make sure you share this with two your friends I'll see you on the next episode with another great guest