The Eric Metaxas Show - #104 - James Lindsay

Episode Date: April 24, 2026

Today On The Eric Metaxas Show, Eric talks with James Lindsay about the woke right, the unraveling of Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens, the media war around Trump, and the stunning allegations now surrounding the Southern Poverty Law Center. They also discuss Charlottesville, the anti Trump narrative machine, and why more people are finally seeing through a movement that has spent years pretending to be conservative while tearing down the right from within. Subscribe for clips from The Eric Metaxas Show to hear politics and culture from a Christian perspective.⭐ PRE-ORDER TODAY:Revolution: The Birth of the Greatest Nation in the History of the World📕: https://a.co/d/0ir3NlapTODAY'S SPONSORS:⭐️ BlockTrust IRA: https://www.metaxascrypto.com/⚖️ Legal Help Center - Get Free Legal Help Today: https://www.legalhelpcenter.com/🛏️ MyPillow — Save BIG with code ERIC: https://www.mypillow.com/☀️ Honest, fast, and free Medicare plan guidance: https://askchapter.com/metaxas/💧 Sentry H2O: https://sentryh2o.com/

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Some of you know that I'm doing the show from Dallas, which is why we have this kind of weird background and why my mustache is not even on my face. No one knows where it is, but it's certainly not here today. But we're in Dallas, so who's to say? But I got to tell you, I'm very excited because I am now going to speak to have as my guest and speak with James Lindsay. James, welcome. Hey, Eric, it's great to see you. You, you're someone that, you know, I don't merely follow on X, but you give me great encouragement. and you've been a steady voice, somebody who is calling out what you call the woke right. And we can talk about that immediately,

or we can talk about that later, but I just thought, if I have you on, I've got to at some point talk about the madness that we're living through right now. Well, it's a very exciting time. I don't think that the last two months have been very good for the so-called woke rights brand. They've really kind of shown their tail ends, as you guys would say on a Christian show.

And people are kind of whising up to it. You know, it's no longer a question. Like, is Tucker Carlson just strange? Something's wrong, you know. So something has caught people's attention. I think a lot of it, of course, has to do with their very decidedly leftist reply to President Trump's operations in Iran. they basically, not even basically, in many cases, identically took the side, the same side of the issue as we're seeing from, you know, Chank Uyghur and Anna Karsperian or whatever her name is on the young Turks.

I mean, just outright left is like you got, you know, allegedly right-wing podcasters who agree almost completely with Greta Thunberg all of a sudden on Iran. And so, you know, something slipped and they've shown them. themselves a bit. I think President Trump put them in a position to show themselves a bit. And that's good. And then now we've just had this revelation come out in the news. The department, what was it, the FBI, not the Department of Justice in this case. The FBI has dropped a multi-count indictment of the Southern Poverty Law Center, which of course is so leftist that I feel somewhat comfortable calling it a communist front operation. Well, yes. located there in Alabama, and they've dropped 11 counts that a grand jury has already indicted them on things like wire, fraud, and all kinds of stuff. But what it boils down to is it very strongly appears that is a fundraising stunt. The SPLC was funding members of the specific hate groups that they decry. So throwing millions of dollars, it looks like upwards of $3 million, not that I'm actually not keeping up with the news that closely. So look up all specific facts, but general story is correct.

Something like $3 million in order to have raised some absurd amount of money. Almost the entire Biden presidency, so many of these Soros-funded NGOs are all downstream from the Charlottesville event, the unite the right event where they went around the tiki torches. You will not replace us. Jews will not replace us, whatever, this kind of neo-Nazi rally. Well, we have to frame this, right? It happened. When did it happen? Was it 2016? 17. It was 2017. 2017. Okay. And it was basically when it happened, anybody who's really paying attention knew something's off. Like you just knew this is not because, you know, I'm a right wing guy. I don't have any friends who do stuff like that. I don't have any friends who have friends who do stuff like that. This is clearly people who don't do, who do not believe in conservative.

values or love America, kind of putting on an act, it's almost like their kabuki theater or it's kind of like the Handmaid's Tale. Like this is their fever dream of what conservative America lovers look like. They're racist. They're white. They're male. And so they put on this whole thing. And most of us thought something is weird.

This is just not organic or real. But the left went insane pretending that it is real and basically continue. condemning everyone who's conservative or who would vote for Donald Trump. So it was really used. It's like a sci-op, as I guess you would call it. And we all kind of smelled like a lot of stuff. We could smell something's wrong, but now we're getting the proof. And it's just, it's almost unbelievable, isn't it?

It's amazing. It's truly unbelievable. I mean, not to draw the wrong metaphor, but it's like Helen of Troy, supposedly the woman that launched a thousand ships, right? like all this war, the whole Peloponnesian war is over this woman. And this is like the left maybe isn't lusting after a woman, but rather after, you know, a right wing that's a big Nazi boogeyman. And so there it appears. And this event launched a thousand ships. The very fine people on both sides, hoax against President Trump, came directly from this. That being explicitly what Joe Biden claimed was his

reason for running for the presidency in the first that one sentence which is a i want to say doesn't that seem scripted like joe biden is not smart enough and was not smart enough in 2017 to come up with that but it really seems like the whole thing was scripted like we're going to do this event we're going to make it out to because we have all these connections the mainstream media we're going to tell them what to say they're going to say it we don't even have to try hard they want to go along with our narrative they're not going to push back they're not going to ask questions and then we're going to pretend that, well, this is why Joe Biden just had to run to stand against the hate. Right.

Yeah, exactly. It was all super script. I mean, it felt very scripted as it was going on. And like I said earlier, you know, it launched all of these NGOs. Soros gets into the game. Act blue gets in all these people. This is the defining moment of the first year of President Trump's first term that's now got to be addressed. This is it.

The neo-Nazis are out. America's going down in flames or whatever, you know, whatever. This became their cause of a decade, literally. But even though we knew it was garbage, they would not shut up about it. Like, they pretended like, no, no, this is real. This is real. They still haven't shut up. I actually ran into out natively in the wild before this story broke just a few days ago, the very fine people thing.

Again, there's some, there were people still. saying this. I mean, it's absolutely fried people's brains. So now you say it looked scripted through each piece of this at the time, but now when we look back and we see that this was the Southern Poverty Law Center, was directly involved in paying organizers putatively on this radical right to do this and to engage in this and then ran a series of profiles that raised a bunch of people's stature. So one of them being this odious Nick Fulentes. Where did Nick Fulence come from? Nick Fulence was put on the map by being some renegade college student who was at the Unite the Right rally in his first big expoise was a Southern Poverty Law Center article saying he

was basically one of the young conservatives that was with a big boogeyman. So there are people speculating online. I think it's unlikely to be true as much as I, you know, You know, there's this thing out there, Eric, called desirability bias, which is that you want something to be true, so you tend to think it is. I would really love for it to be the case that the character that was paid $270,000 by the SPLC, who's named F-37 or something like this in the FBI indictment. I would love for that to be Nick Fuentes. I don't believe it actually is Nick Fuentes. I'm withholding my excitement on that. But nonetheless, they did write a profile.

of Nick Fuentes, they did turn him into a character that in some sense had to be taken seriously after the Charlottesville events, the United States. Well, they're invested in this. Let's let's be clear. They're literally invested in it and they're emotionally and generally invested in it. They want there to be a big white, America-loving, patriotic boogeyman that they can attack and that they can use to raise funds and to scare people. and they have been doing this since forever.

But now we're actually seeing with clarity how they have done it most recently. I mean, this is something, I'm the Southern Poverty Law Center. They have been wicked, wicked people doing what they do for a long time and calling anybody who is conservative or Christian, hate mongers, bigots,

you know, they're just not even trying to be fair. They're just absolutely awful. But now we have caught them in what really does seem almost unbelievable, that they have been funding some of this horrible pseudo-conservative stuff just so they can raise money off of it. In communities across Canada, hourly Amazon employees earn an average of over $24.50 an hour. Employees also have the opportunity to grow their skills and their paycheck. by enrolling in free skills training programs for in-demand fields,

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student movement or something that I'm a conspiracy theorist who traffics in the concepts of white replacement theory and cultural Marxism as obviously an anti-Semitic conspiracy. So I'm anti-Semitic according to the SPLC. And the article they wrote about me is actually fantastic. I think it's one of the funniest things I've ever read. It opens up with a long, this is just to be funny for a moment, but also to give you the quality of their, you know, their exposés. It opens with a long series of in my own words and my own tweets that I had put on Twitter, which were, I'm not joking. This is literally the top of my article on the SPLC, my hate profile. It starts with a list of tweets that I had made as a joke on January 6th, 22, I guess maybe, mocking George Floyd on January 6th.

And so this is what it begins with. It's just quoting me with these silly things saying Democrats get presents. or break. We've got plenty more with James Lindsay. Folks. Do not go away. Hey, the folks, before we go, if Medicare has you confused, our friends at Chapter have the answers. We recommend that you contact them. We trust them. You can go to askchapter.org slash metaxus. Askchapter.org slash metaxus or call 571-421-1-2-1-2-5-5. That's 571, 421, 1253. While the corrupt federal elites have been quietly building wealth through cryptocurrency,

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access crypto.com and find out how they can help you join the Trump crusade financial revolution that's finally giving forgotten Americans access to the greatest crypto wealth opportunity in history. For a limited time, they're offering my viewers up to $2,500 in bonus crypto when you open an account. Crypto created 80,000 new millionaires last year under Trump's phenomenal economic leadership. Why not you next? Folks, welcome back. I'm talking to James Lindsay. Okay, so you were singled out by the Southern Poverty Law Center, as if they cared about poverty.

These are just, you know, Marxist attack dogs doing anything, saying anything. And so they wrote a whole article about you a couple of years ago attacking you. And you were just saying that they lead it off with some of your joke tweets, you know, just to show how wicked you are. Literally jokes. Literally jokes saying things like that I would, that the spirit of George Floyd will come like Santa Claus on January 6th and give good Democrats who fight for racial

justice presence. I mean, just silly stuff, but I was mocking... Actually funny stuff. Genuinely funny. I was mocking, you know, a couple of their, you know, articles of faith there, right? I was mocking January 6th. That was mocking George Floyd and the whole thing around that, mocking the concept of racial

justice. So that's how their article begins about me. And it turns out these articles, as hilarious as I think it is, and a lot of it made it on to my Wikipedia entry. and all this. It turns out that just has real consequences in the world for people who get one of these things because now you have this. So I've traveled, you know, I've been invited to speak all over the world. At one point, it was up in the air. It never quite came together all the way, but I was being considered to possibly give testimony about transgender stuff in the Senate, the U.S. Senate. I've traveled to Europe and I think this came up in New Zealand. Yeah, definitely came up in New Zealand as well when I spoke for. the Act Party annual general meeting that they had, I went down there. And in both cases, it's come up. And with the Senate, it's come up. Well, he's got a Southern Poverty Law Center hate profile. And so with the case where it was being considered whether or not I would give

testimony to the Senate, one of the points was, well, the Democrats are going to just lock onto that SPLC hate profile, and that's all they're going to do. And it will actually be a distraction from the rest of the testimony. And so it wasn't that I got, you know, told I couldn't give testimony in the Senate because of this, but it was a factor that weighed in that, that, you know, led to them choosing not to have me testify in the Senate on an issue that I'm also an expert in that I have something to say about. So it came up again, like I said, in Europe, and it came up again in New Zealand all over the world. People look at this. And it could impact my professional opportunities. The ACT Party or the Act Party, the Hate to be called ACT, the Act Party in New Zealand and the deputy prime minister there were attacked for having an SPLC hate monger speak at their convention. So it was a, it cost them political capital to have me that this silly thing exists. And so it does real damage to people. But here we are. What are they? There's some kind of a front organization doing this kind of damage. Meanwhile, like we were discussing,

paying the agents of alleged hate to create the image of hate, to script the hate into the world that they want to fight so they can fundraise and have a boogeyman and rally political causes. I mean, I don't know if my audience has been following the story, but what I get confused by, I mean, we know, and I think we're establishing as we speak here, that these are very wicked people. I mean, the Southern Property Law Center for a long time

hasn't cared about the truth. just naked partisans who will basically do and say anything to harm their political enemies. That's what they do. But what actually has the FBI uncovered? In other words, let's talk about that because they actually, I mean, I guess we know that they made stuff up or that they created organizations, fake organizations. Like when you talk about the Tiki Torches, you know, back in 2017 and in, I don't know, Charlottesville. That was made up. But they actually also funded actual hate organizations like the KKK.

Well, they're disputing that. So it's a little bit complicated. But it appears that the answer is yes. The answer, what the SPLC is claiming is that they were funding informants to go inside of those organizations. But what it seems to be is the case is that the so-called informants that they were funding are the precise ones the SPLC would then write articles about after the fact. So it was their own guy who was going in agitating that then became the centerpiece of the story that they're writing, not as an informant to tell on Joe Blow that they were watching, but rather as the piece. So the conclusion that the FBI is drawing is that they were actually engaging in fraudulent behavior in a means to do fundraising. They were paying people to go create the image of a problem and then

marketing off of that. But like I said, I'd have to look up the exact indictments, but there are 11 counts, and these are some serious crimes that the FBI's looked into. And the more interesting thing from there is that they now said that they think this is the tip of an iceberg. It's not just the SPLC. They're looking into foreign governments that may have been doing the same thing in these, you know, fringe right-wing groups or radical groups and making them into these kind of boogeymen. Why would we expect anything else from these people who are enemies of the truth, enemies of the United States. When we come back, I want to talk to you a little bit about an unpleasant subject called Tucker Carlson. We'll be right back. Hey there, folks. If you have any questions about

crypto, and I certainly do, we'd like to recommend that you go to metaxis crypto.com, metaxis crypto.com. These are our partners at Blocktrust IRA. You can ask whatever questions you have at Metaxus crypto. dot com. Folks, welcome back to talking to James Lindsay. James, at the beginning of our talk, you mentioned a few things, but you said that the quote-unquote woke right, which is, you know,

the darlings of the woke right would be Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson and that they have really, finally, and I've been saying this as well, they've been shown clearly for who they are. In other words that they, I mean, basically the things that Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson have said about President Trump are so vicious and so anti-Trump and anti-Maga that you think, well, why would we think these people are splitting MAGA? They're not splitting MAGA. They have left MAGA.

They're sprinting away from those of us who love this country. and have supported this president. I mean, Tucker the other day said he was deeply grieved or something about having, you know, told people to vote for Donald Trump. And I thought, I'm glad he said it because that's all he needs to say. Now we know where you stand, Tucker. You've gone, you know, this is sheer lunacy at this point. It's one thing to have differences.

But this is somebody who says he deeply regrets, deeply regrets encouraging people to vote for President Trump. and you think, what does he mean by this? He thinks it would be better to have Kamala Harris as president. I mean, I don't care what you think of President Trump. You actually think that it would be better to have, you know, this bubbleheaded lunatic named Kamala Harris in the White House. It seems like he'll just say anything.

I don't know what to make of it. But he and Candace Owens in particular have said a number of things. That's just one about, you know, how evil Trump is and how they hate Trump. that makes it real clear that, okay, so if you don't hate Trump, you have to part company with the two of them. Yeah, it's very interesting because it's one of these things. You know, we talk about the left or whatever a lot, some of these agents that are actually foreigners in our country.

We see this with immigrants that are angry at America and cursing America, but they don't leave America, right? Now, we understand also that it's the First Amendment protections that America grants them, that allows the, you know, leftists or whatever to rant about America. Well, it's actually the comfort of a Donald Trump presidency that allows them to build a brand of being anti-Trump, of counter-signaling Trump. They wouldn't be talking like this at all under a Kamala Harris presidency. I don't think they actually would have preferred a Kamala Harris presidency, but it's easy to say, since we don't have one, that they wished things were otherwise.

They can point to kind of, you know, I don't. know what I want, but I don't want what we have, kind of energy because they have something that allows that to be comfortable to do. We'd be fighting a very different fight. I'm not saying that they would be, you know, put under some kind of persecution or in prison or any of this. It's possible, but I doubt it. But if Kamala Harris had been president, but it's certainly the case that what they're saying about President Trump is done from the luxury of President Trump's presidency. Right. And so it's got this petulence to it. It's not just, kind of wicked and it's not just um vile and revelatory but it's got a petulance to it uh an ingratitude uh and a

kind of that that same feeling you get from the critical theorists where they're just dissatisfied with whatever we have no matter what it is and they're going to drag you down into that misery too why because you're manipulable when you're miserable when you're despairing when you're angry when you're afraid you're easy to manipulate on those emotions well it's they're also like spoiled rich kids raging against daddy who pays all their bills. I mean, it's pathetic. But I have to say part of it for, I mean, it's kind of nice when you can see like, oh, all the crazy people are in that corner now. So you have Candice Owens, Tucker Carlson, Alex Jones, and Marjorie Taylor Green. Alex Jones has called President Trump, he's a foreign asset now. And you think, listen, Alex,

Like you've said a lot of stuff that's kind of crazy. That's really crazy. Like that's, you know, demonstrably ridiculous. But they're all kind of agreeing on this, you know, that Trump, he's been captured by the dark forces because he's so innocent, you know, he's so dopey and innocent that, you know, a lot of these powerful, uh, spengali Jews have, have captured him. And you just like, listen, you know, even if, even if I had been taken in by anything. that they're saying, now I've got to part company. I've got to be like, sorry. No, Trump is not a foreign asset.

But they say really, really crazy stuff. And I think this is just the way it goes, right? If you go down a path that is contra truth, eventually it's going to sound absurd. Eventually, if you're going to follow that tack, it's going to get nuts. And so they are now, they've painted themselves into a corner now where the enemies of Donald Trump. and you're like, okay, we always knew you weren't much of an ally, but now that we know you're an open, explicit enemy of this president, this administration, which America voted for in case he didn't know, America chose President Trump. I also think, James, that both of them, speaking of Candace Owens and Tucker, both of them are arrogant enough to think that they should be president, that they,

should be the leaders of the conservative movement. They really believe that. I remember, I think I had Candace Owens on my program, I don't know, four years ago or something like that. And she said something about running for president, and I thought, really? Like, you think you're going to run for president? You think so, good.

She's also been, I guess she has said, she wanted to be the most famous person in the world. If that's your ambition, you know, you're not a good guy. You're really just a nakedly ambitious bad person. But I think both she and Tucker suffer from this. At least I'm trying to figure it out. But I somehow think that that's part of the equation. I think so, too.

I also think that as media figures, there's a big, big, what they call, tail wagging the dog effect. So these guys are the tail. Trump is the dog, right? And so they think, or even just the federal government and its operation is the dog. And they think is the media that they get to be the tail and they can wag the dog. And what they've discovered is, in fact, with Trump in the White House in particular and with Donald Trump as a guy, the tail doesn't wag the dog. The dog wags the tail. And so now they're in open rebellion because they're, you know, their proud little, you know, ambitions got foiled.

They got shown that just like most of the rest of us, you know, I would love it if I could just go on social. media or make a podcast and then like things change out in the world, I guess. That would be nice. I have some ideas that I think would be valuable to get incorporated here and there sometimes. But the fact of the matter is that a lot of the time, we just are, we're not passive observers to what's happening, but we don't have a ton of influence. President Trump is making his decisions and it's sort of removed from us and we sort of have to live with it. And so they just couldn't tolerate it. They think they actually thought they were in the driver's seat and President Trump was riding passenger and that they're not handling this, the discovery of reality very well.

And so they're lashing out at the, you know, diminishment of their own status, which, like you said, has these other delusions of grandeur and power tied to it to be the most famous person in the world to be, you know, president of the United States one day. Amazon presents Jeff versus Taco Truck Salsa, whether it's Verde, Roja, or the Orrin. orange one. For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a flamethrower. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea, and milk. Habaniero, more like habanier, yes. Save the everyday with Amazon. The ride that steals the spotlight every time it hits the road, that's the Volkswagen Tiguan. Its sleek exterior makes a first impression you can't ignore.

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you're in a death spiral and you can't pull out of the death spiral. And fortunately for the rest of us, they're in a death spiral. I mean, I really think that the damage that they have done. I mean, even friends of mine

have been sucked into this because it needs to be said, both Candace and Tucker, they say enough true things to suck you in. But what they suck you in, what they do is they're building a narrative of lies, but they're actually using things, well, that's true.

Oh, that's you make a good point there. And they mean, you know, so they are making some good points, but the larger narrative is a lie. And I think, I mean, even the other day, Tucker was, I guess he had Russell Brand on. And how unfortunate that Tucker, that Russell Brand has been captured into the world of Tucker Carlson. I can't even imagine that. but he was complaining Tucker was about how disrespectful Trump is toward the dead. I don't know who, when Mueller died, Trump said something or whatever.

And the point is that a lot of people would sort of agree with that, you know, like when he said something about, well, you're kind of like, nah, I don't know that I would say that or they. But then you have to look at the context, the damage that folks like Mueller did to Donald Trump. It's almost inconceivable. Most of us, you know, we turn on the news. We're not, we're not living it. Trump has lived with the evil that was done by folks like Robert Mueller. And so I would give him a lot of grace on that.

I do give him grace on that. But even if I didn't, I think to myself, listen, what is Donald Trump doing, generally speaking? Is it good? Yes, overwhelmingly good. But Tucker, he wants to die on that hill. He wants to say that, you know, if President Trump has said that, shame on him and he has no respect for the –

And you think, okay, so let's move on to Kamala Harris's presidency where she's, you know, she won't call out Robert Mueller, but she'll just destroy America and the West. That's all, you know. But that's kind of where he is. Like he'll, he's got a few observations now and again. And I think that's how he is managing to hang on to some kind of audience. I don't know how big it is at this point or who is going to stick with him. It's reminiscent of when he said that Nicholas Maduro was socially conservative in Venezuela, despite being a communist. an actual communist, right? But he's socially conservative guys. He doesn't like the gays or something. So, you know, you get this idea being, you know, correct on a narrow point, but wrong overall. But you also have the, again, I just draw you back, Eric, to the critical theory element. I used to describe when I would give public speeches about critical theory early on. Nobody knew what it was, 2020, 2020, 2021, 22. And I'd say, imagine you have an American flag hanging here. And I could usually point to one in the room at a conservative event. And we're going to just take it and we're going to pour over it until we can find a loose

thread and we're going to pull on that loose thread. I'm going to pour over a little bit more until we can find the thread where we can pick at it and make it loose and pull it out. That's how the critical theory works and they do it until the flag falls apart, right? So that was the visceral image I wanted to create. And it's the same thing. You know, okay, so, you know, maybe Trump's a jerk about some of these guys who mistreated him in life who've now died and he's not so, you know, graceful in talking about their death. Well, when do these guys ever talk about anything positive about President Trump, ever, never. All they're doing is looking for those threads.

This is, okay, so that's a loose thread, and they yank on it. And the goal is to pull his presidency apart and to catch you where if you say, well, you know, this isn't fair, guys. They're like, oh, so you defend what he said about, you know, the dead guy or it's just, come on. This is critical theory 101 behavior. These guys are critical theorists. This is why I was calling them woke right for the last couple of years for all the trouble that caused me because it's correct. They're doing critical theory. They say they're doing critical theory a lot of the time now.

They're actually open about it. Maybe not Tucker, but I've heard it from some of the other fellows out there. Well, Tucker had his brother on the other day. And again, there are things that are so stupid. It's breathtaking. It's breathtaking. I guess you know what I'm talking about, right? Uncle Buck.

That guy is out of control. He has his brother on. And they're sitting there like a couple of old deadheads, which is what they are. You know, they're aged deadheads. and a little too much pot. And basically, Tucker's brother says that we, America, are now effectively North Korea. We are now effectively this former Soviet Union.

And I thought, you can say anything you want, but when you say that, you're insane. If you do not know the difference, I mean, think of the people that were, imprisoned in the Gulag archipelago, famously written about by Solzhenitsyn. Think about the people who are today in the prisons of Kim Jong-un. It is a level of oppression that is demonic. It is unbelievably evil. It's hard for us in the West even to conceive of the evil. And here you have Tucker's Dippy brother daring, daring in America to say that we are North Korea. I just thought, you know, if I were a World War II vet or a Vietnam vet, I mean, I'd want to, I'd want to, you know, confront him. How dare you? How dare you? When you think of the patriots that have bled and died and suffered for this nation, and you're going beyond criticizing America to saying that we are now North Korea, you know, you've just got to be a spoiled, you know, Beltway Nepo baby,

effectively to be able to even think a thought like that. Yeah, he's, that's one of Uncle Buck's favorite, as he calls, as they call him, I guess. That's one of his favorite lines is that he's been saying it for a few months that we are, we're North Korea now, right? And I'm like, what in the world does he mean? I didn't look that hard. So I'm not going to have the most cogent thing in the world to say about this. It doesn't put too much effort into making sense of this nonsense.

But the claim as far as I can tell boils down to that they can't go just rail on Israel in Donald Trump in America all the time without getting people backlashing at them. So therefore, North Korea, which, you know, is absolutely bonkers. It's just totally bonkers. But I mean, think about it. Tucker and his Dippy brother are not being tortured in a jail right now. If you go to North Korea and you publicly say what they're saying publicly, you will be, you know, imprisoned and tortured and probably killed.

So the fact that they're doing this on a podcast. Nobody's shutting them down. Nobody's going there with machine guns. It's like, go ahead, have your little fantasy, your little fantasy conversation. But I'm just saying as an American, that stuns me. Because when I think of the patriots who have suffered for this country that you would make a statement like that, it is so irresponsible. It is so wrong and spoiled and myopic. But that is where Tucker is.

But part of it is for me, I see it as a good thing because, again, it shows us who they, really are. There's no nuance. If you're claiming America is North Korea, if you're, if you're claiming Donald Trump is evil, uh, and you wish he weren't president. If you're playing you're, so, so Tucker is now claiming many things. And before we go to the break, I'll just say, I was laughing out loud. He was, uh, he had someone on and my name came up. And he says, oh yeah, yeah, Eric from taxes, he's deeply, deeply troubled. And I laughed out loud. I thought, Like, you could say whatever you want about me, but like, to shake here, he'd be like, oh, he's deeply troubled.

He's had me on his podcast. He's raved about the quality of my books. But now, suddenly, without any backup, he just, oh, yeah, Eric, because he's, he's deeply troubled, deeply. I just thought he'll just say anything. We seem to have no meaning for him. It's almost funny, but we'll be right back talking to James Lindsay. Hi, everyone. If you were injured in an accident, listen up.

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I'm talking to James Lindsay. So James, you were just responding to what I said, that you're glad, you know, people are finally seeing through Tucker Carlson. I mean, it's hard not to. I was glad that somebody finally saw that you're deeply troubled. Oh, that I'm deeply troubled. Yes. It's important.

I've been trying to tell people that for years. I'm not just troubled. I'm deeply troubled. Deeply deeply. Anybody who knows me, I'm a Charlie Sheen type individual. Just a lot of crazy stuff. You know, I don't know if it's the drugs or the hookers or both or wait.

Who's to say? But deeply, deeply, a lot of personal problems. That's what I found it actually hilarious when he said that. I thought, what? Like, what are you talking about? I mean, this is the kind of thing, though. I was having a conversation with a friend of mine yesterday.

It's kind of like, you know, how do we make sense of some of the, how do you get people to see the madness is basically the question? This is something that's come up a few times for us in the past decade or so. In this case, I was talking to a Canadian, and the average Canadian is not, you know, You just can't see that what's going on in Canada's positively bonkers that Mark Carney is making deals with China is saying, you know, that his ideal, like, memory of Canada is how in the War of 1812, the Canadians, allegedly, was really the British, burned down the White House. So, like, I don't know what he's, I think he's trying to provoke President Trump into doing something so he can campaign on TDS, basically. He can get the Canadians all worked up, that President Trump rattled a saber. Okay, whatever. So the question wasn't any about the. that the details. It was, why can't the average Canadians see it? And it's similar with this, you know, woke right. It's been similar with different things that we've been through, the racial justice, BLM stuff. Some of the, the drag queen stuff was a little on the nose. It's a little,

a little bit much. But also this, you know, a lot of the stuff that they threw out us with COVID-19. It was just, you know, a lot of it was how do we get normal people to see this stuff? And the answer turns out to be it's things like this, Eric, where somebody who's obviously, you know, God is quirks, but is not deeply troubled in any realistic sense, gets called deeply troubled. Or when Tucker Carlson pretended not to know who Seth Dylan is anymore, after spending a year bad-mouthing him, right? So he bad-mouthed Seth Dylan, he bad-mouths his very public fight with Seth Dylan, bad-mouthed him some more. And then Seth Dylan comes up on his podcast, I think, with that Carrie Pre-Jean Buller woman. And he says, who is Seth Dylan?

Like, he doesn't know who it is anymore, like he is amnesia or something? I don't know if he's doing psychedelics or what is happening, but that was the Carrie Baller thing. That's where my name came up. And it all came up because I'm on the President's Commission on Religious Liberty, which is a very important subject. And, you know, she kind of blew it up because she's crazy. And, of course, he has Iran. And, yeah, she, that's when he said I was. But this is what I'm saying.

This is very important to establish. That's right. This is how people see through it, though. They, certain things they say attach to the truth enough, as we were talking about, being true in the narrow sense or correct on a narrow point, to where people follow along. And, you know, you nod a little bit and you go a little further and you go a little further. And you can get people pretty far off into crazy town. But there are certain things that people will say, like you're saying, whether it's that you are deeply troubled, whether he doesn't know who Seth very deeply, that he deeply doesn't know who Seth. Dylan is anymore after a public fight for a couple of years or that, you know, he regrets having supported President Trump or a lot of his comments on Sharia and Islam recently. At some point,

people have that moment, you know, the eyebrow goes up. The Greek people call it aporia. They're like, wondering, what's going on? I have this moment of openness all of a sudden curiosity to see the thing in front of me in a different way. And so the answer often turns out to be, how do you get the normal people to see it, is that the person themselves, the fool, if you will, has to reveal their foolishness themselves. And they've crossed so many lines so rapidly, at least since last October, maybe even earlier, but certainly since last October, this is the Tucker Carlson, Nick Fuentes interview moment. They've crossed so many lines so quickly that now it's just kind of, of the emperor is naked. We can all see his bottom. And we're in this strange moment where we don't quite know what happens next. But it doesn't look like it's working out well for their brand. I'm watching other conservative and right-wing podcasters very quickly trying to reorient their messages that they've always known that this was bad. And, you know, they never would have

supported these guys or, you know, all this kind of crazy stuff. And it's time that we just lock down and get back behind President Trump. I'm seeing all. all this kind of messaging now. So you... But, well, we're going to go to another break, but before we go to the break, we just have to make very clear that the French government and the Israelis are trying to kill Candace Owens. Ladies and gentlemen, have you heard about this?

Is she dead yet? No? No. Incredible. They gave me this, Eric. We know that there's a hit out. They gave me this. We'll be right back.

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James, I have to say that, you know, there was this moment at Charlie's Memorial Service where I think many of us thought, boy, we're in a new realm. The death of our friend is going to lead the country into a good place. And almost immediately, Tucker did the truly despicable thing that I don't think he would have dared to do if Charlie Kirk were alive. and he gives a wonderful kid glove interview to the pro-Adolf Hitler, pro-Stalin, Nick Fuentes. And I still cannot fathom

that he did that, although now I guess maybe I can, but if Charlie were alive, I don't think he could have gotten away with that. And so he has done really despicable things. He's done tremendous harm, as has Candace to TPSA, tremendous harm,

because they don't really see to care about the conservative movement. They seem to be jealous. They were jealous of Charlie. Obviously, Candace is jealous of Charlie. But it really, I guess we're just, it's just becoming more clear now where they were coming from all this time. Yeah, their attack on TPSA has been pretty astonishing. Candice maybe in particular, going after Erica Kirk as vigorously as she has, as nastily as she has. Relentlessly, as a matter of fact, too, it very much looks like. like, you know, just kind of as a lay observer that she might be trying to even throw the trial of Tyler Robinson with all this confusing stuff, trying to, you know, distract from the actual carriage of justice on that, even if she can't damage the trial, to accuse basically anybody and anybody, everybody inside of Turning Point USA that she can imagine a grudge with of being complicit. and just to tar and feather everything to do with Charlie and Erica and turning point. And it's just been really shocking. I mean, the amount of damage that she's been doing very deliberately to the organization, more or less since the day Charlie was murdered, I think literally from the day he was murdered is just,

it's just stomach turning actually to watch. Well, I mean, she's clearly, she was jealous of him. And listen, Charlie, I've said this before on my program. that Charlie was too gracious to call her out. I mean, when she parted company with TPSA, I think they were kind of like, she's nuts. Okay, we'll see ya. And they basically did not attack her

because they thought, you know, why. Then she leaves daily wire. Same kind of thing, but Charlie was gracious. But I got the clear impression that he and the others at TPSA were like, were thrilled she's gone because she was nuts. And so she pretends that she was, close friends with Charlie, but it seems like it's just bitter jealousy, I guess.

You know, anybody who loved Charlie as we did, we want to bless Erica and we want to bless TPSA. We want us like anything we can do to help. Tell us what we can do to help because we loved our friend. And she seems to be in exactly, Candace, in exactly the opposite place, just would love to burn it down. You know. Yeah. So when I did a lot of the stuff that I did with the dealing with the woke left, I was called in for a lot of companies would have me consult or I would just meet with people that were running companies.

This was a very common refrain that they had hired the woke feminist woman who's just kind of a nightmare. And they can't keep her because she's a nightmare to have in the office and won't do any work. But they can't fire her because she's going to file a lawsuit and put something in the paper and make a huge stink and bad PR and everything else. And I would say that Candace fits that profile, which is a very woke profile. And it's a very damaged individual profile who's glommed on to woke as an ideology. But she's gone beyond that. This is actually openly malicious. It seems even beyond personal malice, like that she had been fired or removed or separated from turning point.

And she was always going to give her revenge. It seems even beyond that, that there is a almost operational component where the goal seems to be to damage turning point, to damage Erica Kirk. And the amount of malice that she's executing in this campaign and the consistency with which she's doing it is just astonishing to watch. These things have solutions that are slow like lawsuits as the Macron's are demonstrating with her. But in the meantime, since those processes are slow and because there is the pending trial of Tyler Robinson, we all kind of have to grit our teeth. And what I hope is mark and avoid Candace Owens and those who continue to support her, reach out to those if we can that they're tried to show them that supporting Candice at this point is supporting evil and nothing short of it. And like you said, lend what support we can to Erica to aim to help Turning Point get on its feet and get properly oriented after this very difficult and confusing seven or eight months.

So I agree with you on that, Eric. It's been stomach churning. Yeah, well, I'm sorry right out of time. Always great to talk to you, James Lindsay. Thank you today for being my guest. Yeah, thank you, Eric.