The Eric Metaxas Show - #108 - Tim Barton

Episode Date: April 30, 2026

Today On The Eric Metaxas Show, Eric talks with Tim Barton of WallBuilders about the Christian roots of America’s founding, the real meaning of separation of church and state, the forgotten role of John Adams, and why modern historians have distorted the story of 1776. They also discuss George Washington, Samuel Adams, George Whitefield, the Boston Massacre, and why America’s liberties cannot be understood apart from the God given rights the founders believed in. Subscribe for clips from The Eric Metaxas Show to hear politics and culture from a Christian perspective.⭐ PRE-ORDER TODAY:Revolution: The Birth of the Greatest Nation in the History of the World📕: https://a.co/d/0ir3NlapTODAY'S SPONSORS:📢 Don’t Let the Financial Storm Destroy Your Wealth and Future!https://www.metaxasgoldira.com/⚖️ Legal Help Center - Get Free Legal Help Today: https://www.legalhelpcenter.com/🛏️ MyPillow — Save BIG with code ERIC: https://www.mypillow.com/☀️ Honest, fast, and free Medicare plan guidance: https://askchapter.com/metaxas/

This is not historically debated. It's just not historically taught. And it's almost as if for a reason it's not taught because it's like the modern academics did not want people to know we have a Christian foundation and that we do have an authority higher than government. It is God. The founding fathers believed it built our country on it. And it's really what we should remember and return to

as part of our celebration of the greatest nation in the history of the world. Hey there, folks. As you may know, you may have heard this year is the supercentennial, the 250th anniversary of the birth of the greatest nation in the history of the world. I believe I've written a book about it. But lots of people love American history. And we thought during this supercentennial year, we would have some of those guests on to talk about America and our history and all that fun stuff. Today, we, We have on a friend, Tim Barton. You may know of his work and his father's work, David Barton,

with wall builders. Tim Barton, welcome. Eric, great to be with you. Well, it's great to see you. It was great to see you the other day in Dallas, where you are stationed. And I guess I was excited to talk to you about American history because you and your dad with wall builders have been at the forefront of linking Christian faith to American history.

And when I say linking, I mean, really reestablishing for others that link, which exists. It's not like, you know, you're pushing it. This is a story that in a way has not been told enough in recent years. And you and your dad and wallbuilders have been at the forefront of helping Americans understand our history. So I guess I want to ask you, how did you and your dad? dad, obviously, before you, get started on this. What was it that launched wall builders? When did that

happen? Back in 1987, 1988 is when my dad really got started. And it was because he read a couple of the founding documents that were completely contrary to what he'd been told. You know, Eric, you have known and talked about the infiltration of Marxism in America. And we can track it back in the 60s, all the way up to present where they have been strategically demonizing the founding fathers and whether it's, they were these sexually immoral people who had lots of illegitimate children, that they were irreligious, they didn't want God involved, or even today the argument that they were all these races, big enslaved holders. My dad grew up hearing that narrative, and specifically that they weren't religious. And he was on staff at a church. He grew up a Christian. And so he just thought,

well, man, if these guys didn't love Jesus and I don't really care about him, and he read, for example, George Washington's farewell address, where George Washington said that religion and morality are the indispensable supports of our political prosperity, arguing that you couldn't even consider yourself a patriot if you rejected religion and morality. And my dad thought, wait a second. It seems like they're in favor of this, not against it. He then read a Supreme Court case. This is super abstract. He just happened. Somehow got dropped it in his lap where he was reading something and talked about. about this case, he looked up this case, and it was Vidal versus Gerard's executors, the famous Daniel Webster, very noted political figure from back in the early 1800s. He argued this case of the U.S. Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court in their decision, in part dealing with whether or not you could teach the Bible in public schools, if you could teach Christianity in public schools in America. And the Supreme Court gave a unanimous decision where they said that you can't be a government-run school if you exclude Christianity, the Bible, and if you don't allow

Christian ministers on campus to evangelize the students, the government will not help you run near school. And so he just thought, this is totally opposite. It led him on a deep dive rabbit hole to actually just go start reading original documents. And so a little bit like what we talk about, kind of your illusion that we don't feel like we're telling something that's not there. What we're pointing out, it would be kind of like if somebody read the Old Testament and tried to explain it without God. If you read the New Testament, it tried to explain it without Jesus, like you're missing the whole point if you're excluding God and what's happened in most of the storytelling of America for the last many decades is it's kind of been like trying to tell

about the Old Testament stories without God. You're leaving out the main character that's so evident and obvious. And by the way, everybody who was there talked about, acknowledged, prayed to, thanked for all of the things that had happened. And so we're just reintroducing people to the God connection of America with the actual writings of the founding fathers. Well, and again, this is, I don't know what to compare it to,

but it's like some movie, you know, where you discover something and you start going nuts because nobody knows about the something and you're like, I've got to tell the world about this. And people kind of laugh at you. And, you know, we've all seen that movie, a different version of that movie,

but that's what this is. You discover something and you say, this is not my point of view. This is overwhelming. I mean, this is absolutely undeniable, inescapable, overwhelming, and nobody seems to know it or most of the people in positions of power don't know it or don't like it. And so this has been, you know, the Marxist, long march through the institutions where they have really built up this case as though you could have America without Christian faith. And you realize you can't, you can't sustain it, without Christian faith, and it certainly wouldn't have come into being without Christian faith.

And that was genuinely my discovery in writing my book on The Revolution. I thought, I've never seen it so clearly. It's just overwhelming. And we have been taught and heard it over and over and over. Oh, it's the, it's the enlightenment. And I thought, no, no, this is a rewriting of history. This doesn't mean that the enlightened wasn't involved at all, but it's a rewriting of history. And if you don't go with the truth, you're going to get a different outcome. And that's kind of what's been happening.

As we lose our liberties and as more and more people really forget who we are and how we got to be here, you begin to lose liberty because that's the nature of it, right? In other words, unless you have a Christian faith at the heart of it, then if our liberties don't come from God,

well, where they come from? How do you even have liberty? How do you even define liberty if you don't talk about God? And so we've been gaslit into living in a world where, you know, well, you don't need that. We can have all this somehow without that. And as your father and now you have done the research and I've done the research and others done the research, you think this is inescapable.

And we've got a lot of work to do to really bring America back to the truth. To say, listen, you don't need to like it. You don't need to agree with it. But you just need to face it. Like this is just, this is who we have been. This is how you get liberty. It comes from the Bible. It's not as capable.

You and I together, what we were together, we were talking about Jefferson. And I feel like Jefferson has been pushed because he's like an icon for these French Enlightenment figures that they kind of want to act like, oh, yeah, they were deists. They might mention God, but they didn't really believe in the God of the Bible. And we can get all that without God. And the point is, no, you can.

If you want an example of that, look at the French Revolution. But Jefferson strikes me as somebody who's been exalted by historians who are uncomfortable with the God of the Bible. Need a vehicle that isn't afraid to make a splash? That's the Volkswagen Touse. Capable and confident, the Volkswagen Touse is fit for everyday life. Nimble in traffic, agile and tight spots, and still spacious enough for weekend getaways. While available 4-motion all-wheel drive gives confidence in rain and snow. The capable taos, you deserve more confidence.

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Save the everyday with Amazon. Yeah, I think it's very fair to say that. One of the things, too, that's also worth adding to the context of the conversation is when people talk about the Enlightenment thinkers that influence the Founding Fathers, they pretend like all of the Enlightenment thinkers were secularists. Charles Monastew was not a secularist. William Blackstone in the era of the Enlightenment thinkers, not a secularist. These are pro-faith, pro-God, pro-biblical people. John Locke, the guy that did the life, liberty, property, he was not a secularist. And again, the reason it matters is the Enlightenment thinkers that were the most quoted

by the founding fathers were people of faith. But yes, then to come to Jefferson, it's very interesting and worth noting that the people that have been the most elevated in the modern narrative are the ones that all historians agree were the least religious and the most secular. Now, with that being said, I can still take a guy like Benjamin Franklin or even Jefferson to a lot of extent and point out he is not nearly as secular

as you think he was. Jefferson's the guy that most people know because he wrote the famous letter of separation of church and state. And of course, people misunderstand that's not in the Constitution. That was in a private letter written to a group of Babison, Danbury, Connecticut.

But what's interesting about that is he wrote that on a Friday, January 1st of 1802. two days later on January 3rd of 1802, Jefferson actually, and this is his own journal, Jefferson was in the U.S. Capitol building attending a church service, listening to the Reverend John Leland, his friend, whom he had invited to come preach. So when people are like, well, this separation church or state means you cannot have religion anywhere near government. That's exactly incorrect. What it meant was the government can't control religion, not that we had to exclude religion from government. And as point in case, Jefferson was president for eight years.

all eight years he attended church in the U.S. Capitol Building, which by the way, he's one of two guys that actually approved for church to be held there in the first place. The church that met in the Capitol building was the largest Protestant church in America. Jefferson approved it being there. Jefferson attended church there. And this is all in the midst of him writing the famous letter of separation of church and state where he's assuring the Danbury Baptist and they're ever going to lose their religious freedom from the government. But the reason I point this out is not only if we misconstrued,

these guys. The reason we know Jefferson's name more than a John Witherspoon, for example, is because Jefferson fits the modern narrative that the secular progressives wanted to promote and they can say, look, he's not really a Christian. In fact, none of the Founding Fathers are really Christians. Therefore, they were all these secular, anti-religious guys and we shouldn't allow God to be part of our government. That's not the Founding Fathers view. It's not where they came from. And it's only a really bad telling of history, and it's only because we don't know history that we've bought into some of these nonsensical lies.

Yeah, this is very, very important. Folks, this is very, very important. Don't be part of the problem and keep pushing this or be passive when you hear about this. It's just not true that our founders were secular or they pushed secularism. This is a lie that has been, pushed in recent decades. And even if it weren't a pernicious lie, it's a lie. But it is a

pernicious lie. It leads to bad things. But just the fact that it's not true, just the fact that most people don't know the truth on this. It's why wall builders are doing what they do and what I'm doing. We'll be right back talking to Tim Barton. Folks, this is important. If Medicare has you confused, if you've got questions, we understand, and this is why we recommend our friends at chapter. They're there to help you, to kind of talk you through what might work best for you. This is very important that you get it right. You can call them at 571, 421, 12, 5,53. These are our friends at Chapter 571, 421, 12, 5, 3. I don't like alarmism. I don't like fear mongering. I especially don't like people who profit from panic.

But I do believe in telling the truth, especially when the markets are reminding us how fragile things are. Over the last few weeks, we've all watched the volatility, stock swinging, confidence shaking, long-estanding assumptions, suddenly looking less solid. Many economists are calling this moment

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these wisdom matters more than optimism. Welcome back talking to Tim Barton of Wall Builders. We recommend wall builders as a resource. What is the website, Tim Barton? Wallbuilders.com. Couldn't be simpler. Wallbuilders.com. The other day, I'm on the president's commission on religious liberty, and we were together

at the museum of the Bible, and lieutenant governor Dan Patrick, who's the chairman of the commission, was speaking about the separation of church and state, and he kind of didn't speak about the context. So I think he was maybe misinterpreted, because when he says that, you know, we don't believe in the separation of church and state, he doesn't really mean that. What he means is that that phrase has been pushed as a lie.

In other words, the separation of church and state, what Jefferson's writing about in the letter of the Danbury Baptist is that we need to protect the church from government, not to protect the government from Christians and from the church. And that lie has been pushed out over and over. And people, you know, even there's an organization. organization, something like, you know, people for the, for the separation of church and state, or I can't even remember. They completely misrepresent the meaning of Jefferson. And so this, this really false narrative has been pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed.

And I really do believe that half the time when people are pushing Jefferson, that's kind of what they're doing. They're pretending like it's all the French Enlightenment. It's anti-clerical. it's secular. It's simply not true. And you and I were even talking about how a lot of the folks push Madison as the author of the Constitution, kind of in the way that Jefferson has pushed as the author of the Declaration. And it is way more complicated. I mean, I just want to say it is preposterous that Thomas Jefferson, that they act like those are Jefferson's words. I just want to be clear. The words of the Declaration of Independence, those are not Jefferson's words. Those are the words of the Continental Congress.

Jefferson created a draft. He came up with a few beautiful phrases. But the idea that this was like something Jefferson wrote in a book, he was doing this on behalf of the Continental Congress. There was a committee of five who said, you know, you do the actual words. But it really is fascinating how history gets so twisted. And we've got to set the record straight. It's actually very important.

Yeah, it's also worth pointing out. If somebody wants to ask the question, well, where did Jefferson come up with this language? Actually, George Mason, who wrote in Virginia and made of 1776, he's the first one to use the phrase that all men have been created equal and have been given inherent rights by their creator. Jefferson actually borrowed that phrase from the Virginia Declaration of Rights, which was already written by George Mason over a month before, actually two months before we come to the declaration. This is all to kind of bolster your point that Jefferson actually he shouldn't get credit because he is the guy that put some words together, but he shouldn't have universal and sole credit,

which is the larger point. We pretend like Jefferson is the guy. Well, Jefferson was the guy that helped assemble it. But just like we talked about where James Madison often gets credit as he is the, he's the father of the Constitution is the only guy that did it. Well, you're having to exclude George Washington, who's the father of the convention, who held it all together. You're having to exclude guys like Gouverner Morris, the guy who actually wrote the Constitution. He's known as the penman of the Constitution or Roger Sherman or James Wilson.

People that were more active that gave more speeches that did incredible things in leadership. And yet today, James Madison is the only name we know. Why? Well, because he actually fits into a narrative that oftentimes like a Jefferson or even like a Franklin, secular's progressives like to promote them because they have certain phrases or ideas that seem antagonistic to Christianity or religion, which isn't always the case, but it seems that way. So these secular, progressives, and academia, and go, hey, just want you to know, the leading founding fathers were really secular, were deists, whatever else. And I think that's why some of these

narratives get crafted the way they do. And unfortunately, diminishes some of the really significant founding fathers that in many times, we're more critical and instrumental in the forming of these documents or ideas than the people that we know today. I mean, it really is, it's been shocking to me as I've uncovered this because I'm fairly new to this subject, just the last couple of years that I've really dove in. But we do need to know the truth, folks. We need to know the truth. And the exultation of Jefferson, it really is, it's so strange to me. And of course, in writing my book on The Revolution, he's virtually non-existent in the story of the Revolution.

I mean, he was too young. And then even once the revolution begins, I mean, yes, he's there in Congress in 1776 and part of putting together the Declaration of Minutans. But he's just not a figure. He's just not involved in that. And it is just strange how history, you know, shifts. And we need to, we need to correct the record, folks. What is true is true. We need to know what's true.

And that's part of what we're doing here. We'll be right back duck. and it's in Barton of Wall Builders. You can check them out, wallbuilders.com. Folks, do not forget, if you have questions about gold or silver, we recommend, highly recommend, Genesis Gold. They'll answer your questions. We trust them.

We believe in them. And you can find them at metaxis gold IRA.com. Metaxusgoldir. I.R.A.com. Welcome back, folks. This is a special supercentennial edition of the Eric Metaxos show. I'm talking to Tim Barton of wall builders.

And one of my discoveries, Tim, because we've been talking about Jefferson, is the role that John Adams played and how it is so scandalous to me that there's a Jefferson Memorial and there's no John Adams Memorial. It's insane, absolutely insane. And finally, they are created,

a John Adams. Actually, it's not even a John Adams Memorial. It's an Adams family memorial because it's John Adams, Abigail Adams, John Quincy Adams, and his wife. But the rule that John Adams played, I mean, if there's any, there's a chapter in my book where I talk about this, that the architect of independence is John Adams, period, period. And people act like the Declaration of Independence is independence. And I say, no, it's like the birth certificate. So it's kind of like, saying like, listen, mom, you know, giving birth like, hey, that's great. But the real hero, who printed the birth certificate? Where is that man? Here's the man. And you think the birth certificate just ratifies what was done. And so fighting for independence politically and in every

way, John Adams is the hero. I mean, it's just, and I think Jefferson would have agreed with that. You're exactly right. Jefferson agreed with it. And by the way, I would say we could even extend. And I love that there's going to be an Adam family's, Adams family memorial. It should be extended because also Sam Adams was known as the father of the American Revolution. He's the leader of the Sons of Liberty. So literally, the two cousins, John and Sam Adams, had it not been for them, the sons of liberty, don't help unite the cause. John Adams is the one who is championing liberty so much so that even Jefferson acknowledged. Jefferson said that John Adams was like the Atlas, holding the globe, holding the world on his shoulder,

he said that John Adams was the guy holding liberty on his shoulders. Had it not been for John Adams, we would not have come together and had liberty. And I even think of the musical 1776, which is fun and funny, but it even highlights. Like John Adams is the guy in the middle of all of this, and it shows him maybe in kind of a fair light that he was a little aggressive at times and wasn't always the most liked by everybody, but he was the fervent champion of this. and had it not been for him, it's questionable how this all comes together and what it does.

And so you're right. The fact that we have honored Jefferson, who again, Jefferson deserves some credit, but that's like if there's a basketball team, and I'm just going to use a modern example, right? It's like if you had a LeBron James and Luca Donkick on a team, and then you have some role player who's shooting three is out of the corner, and you're like, that's the guy that did it.

Well, clearly he's part of a very important team, his role might have been very significant, but he shouldn't be the sole superstar that we remember from this incredible team. We ought to be looking at all of these contributors. And if we looked with a historic lens fairly, we would recognize that there's a lot of guys that did significant things. It was not Jefferson alone. And to your point, John Adams deserves way more credit than it gets today. Oh, I mean, it's no comparison. I was so shocked. I mean, I, again, you know, I'm sort of new to this. And so as I'm doing the research, I was more and more amazed at the gigantic stature of John

Adams. I said, this is just amazing. There's a chapter in my book early on. In 1765, he wrote an amazing essay. And I was just agog reading this essay. I thought, why isn't he famous for this essay? What he writes in this essay, it's really like he's a prophetic voice. But this is 1765.

I mean, he's a 30-year-old lawyer in Boston, and another Boston lawyer kind of knew who Adams was and kind of pushes him to write this essay, which is chopped up into four parts that are put into the Boston Gazette. But he is laying it out. This is 10 years before Lexington and Kai. It's just amazing to me. And then the role he actually played behind the scenes

in pushing for independence, it's just, it's remarkable. The story needs to be told. Every American needs to know the role that John Adams played. And I don't know, you know, other than doing what you do and what I do, it's kind of up to people, you know, to take the ball from here and to understand who were the main figures in this. But John Adams, I mean, he's just an absolute giant. He should be on Mount Rushmore.

I can't, I really, I'm just kind of amazed the way history works and how some names get, get exalted and I can't think of anybody more important than John Adams. To me, he's equal to George Washington, which is saying a lot because Washington is just a giant, deservedly so, just an amazing, almost inconceivably large figure. But Adams, to me, is his equal. We'll be right back talking to Tim Barton. It's something else here now. Something new.

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Hi everyone. If you were injured in an accident, listen up. We have legal professionals standing by to answer your questions. You can find out if you have a case and how much it's potentially worth. I'm Gina Bellich, along with Super Bowl champ and two-time pro bowler Vernon Davis. So Vernon, tell everyone watching who should call right now. Well, Gina, if you or someone you know were injured in an accident that was not your fault, give us a call right now. You can find out if you have a case and how much money is potentially worth. Thanks, Vernon. You know, the phones have really been busy. So what kind of calls have we been getting? We're getting calls about all types of accidents, from car accidents to slipping falls and so many others.

So if you were injured in an accident, don't go at it alone. Call for a free case review and find out how much your case is potentially worth. Thanks, Vernon. You heard the man. Call now to find out how much money you qualify for. Welcome back. This is a special supercentennial edition of the Erkman Taxis show. I'm talking to Tim Barton of wall builders. Tim, we were talking about John Adams. And I think it really makes me think about in writing my book, I was fascinated that John Adams said there was a revolution before the revolution. In other words, before Lexington and Concord and Bunker Hill and the war, there was a revolution that was happening, mainly in Boston, where he was. lived. And I felt that that was a very important part of the story that needs to be told. And there's so many heroes in that story that have been forgotten. John Adams says that the opening scene of

the revolution in his mind took place in a courtroom in Boston, 1761, where he was watching the lawyer James Otis Jr. argue for five hours against what we're called the writs of, now, of course I'm forgetting it now, but assistance. The writs of assistance, anyway, the point is that John Adams was in the courtroom watching James Otis Jr. in 1761 arguing against this idea of the rits of assistance because it was against what he believed. It was against the Bible. It was against the British Constitution.

It was unconstitutional. It was against liberty. And he's arguing against this. And so from that moment forward, you have these battles, and most Americans are unfamiliar with this kind of run up to how do we get to the revolution. And I have to say, like, I want every American to be as familiar with the revolution before the revolution, just because it's so exciting. And there's so many fun figures involved, most of them radical Christians. Yes. So to that point, you know, the film was out of Great Awakening introduces you to one of those major characters at George Whitfield, because founding fathers like John.

John Adams, and also, by the way, like Jefferson and Madison and many others, Franklin certainly, said had it not been for Whitfield, that there never could have been a revolution. It was his work and leadership. And obviously, as you're talking about these outspoken Christians, one of the cool things, too, John Adams writes, not just about James Otis. And although James Otis is the one who really birthed the Sons of Liberty, it was kind of his thought child that then guys like Sam Adams bring to fruition. but John Adams talking about from the rits of assistance all the way up at the Stamp Act, he said the reason we were able to overcome those. This isn't John Adams right. John Adams says the reason we overcame those, he says, are pulpits thundered?

Meaning our pastors have been speaking boldly about this and against this. And let me go further forward because John Adams is the guy who nominates George Washington to be the commander and chief of the Continental Army. So John Adams is central to all of us, by the way, again, just in the weeds detail for a second, but kind of a fun fact. John Adams is a guy after the Boston Massacre. And of course, you know this, but this is for all the listeners that might not. John Adams is the guy who actually defended the British after the Boston massacre where they

opened fire in the crowd. They kill five other people are wounded. And the reason was because none of the attorneys in town would actually defend these British soldiers. and there was a loyalist who went to John Adams, reportedly with tears in his eyes, said, Mr. Adams, can you please help? Nobody, nobody will defend them. And John Adams argues that everybody should have their day in court.

Justice should be blind. I will represent them. And he was able to point out that the boss of masker actually was in many ways self-defense because some of these patriots who were rightfully upset, they then, instead of throwing snowballs, they get rocks and clubs, and it becomes something that there really could have been some, some arguably unwarranted, although you could argue that pretty well. Not to digress.

John Adams is that attorney. John Adams' role is so much larger than most Americans know, but also let me give one more thought because John Adams didn't just acknowledge that the pastors were also major leaders. Let me go to the fact when he nominates George Washington. And by the way, I'm so excited about your book. I haven't gotten it yet. So it would not surprise me if you include this in your book, but I am super pumped to get maybe a pre-release copy that we can get and read and promote.

more about, but one of the first orders that George Washington gives, one of his first general orders is he bans any profanity and any drunkenness in the military, he says, because we cannot afford to offend God. We can't afford to offend the blessings of heaven. Without God's blessings, we can't succeed. He then has another general order where he's encouraging that all of his officers make sure you are in church every Sunday. He said the example for all the men, encouraging to go with you. Washington writes to Congress and says, please send me more chaplains. We need more chaplains. And again, What I'm trying to show is that they interwove their faith with their patriotism so clearly that the only way we can look back today and thank these persecular people

is to intentionally ignore all of their outspoken moments where they are calling on God, where they are encouraging godliness, where they are prohibiting and banning ungodliness, knowing that we can't afford to offend God. But this is the reflection of who they were, but then again, even recognizing just John Adams was so much more involved than significant than most people have any idea. And often it was the faith of these guys that motivated them to be the Patriots they were. There's so much to what you said.

I just want to say amen, amen, amen, amen, and scream amen. Because you, you, first of all, John Adams was the one who chose George Washington. Ladies and gentlemen, did you hear that? John Adams was the one pushing for George Washington, not John Hancock. That's a whole other story. Hancock's a hero, but he's pushing for George Washington. John Adams is the one pushing for Jefferson to be the actual penman for the declaration.

Everybody wanted John Adams to write it. John Adams, in every case, you mentioned the Boston Massacre. That's one of my favorite chapters in my book. I think my chapter in the book is the best, telling of it that because I kept looking and looking and you get little bits and pieces. But what actually happened at the Boston Massacre, there is no doubt that the soldiers, the British soldiers were provoked. So this was not a massacre. And this was a brilliant public relations stroke on the part of Samuel Adams and Paul Revere to label it a massacre and to get

these, you know, illustrate these engravings out so that everybody could see, oh, look, it's a massacre. It was not a massacre. And the men, you know, on our team, the Boston working class figures, they were taunting these, these British soldiers. It's really horrible. Your heart goes out to the British soldiers, not to the, you know. And the fact that John Adams was such a Christian that he said, even though he sides with the Sons of Liberty, he says, we need to honor God. We need to do the right thing. over and over and over again. George Washington, we need to do the right thing. We need to ask for the

blessings of God. We can't win without the blessings of God. John Adams and George Washington are central figures in constantly pointing people to God and saying, unless we have the blessings of God, we don't deserve to win and we will not win. And that's just an amazing thing. I really didn't know this, again, until I did my research for the book. It becomes so clear and so obvious, and they say it over and over. I mean, imagine that George Washington, you just said it, is actually putting out orders

that we have to observe the Sabbath. We have to have chaplains. We have to have, you know, no cursing and gambling. Because he actually believed God, not the God of the deists, who doesn't do anything, but that the God of the Bible

has a hand in history. And if we honor him, he will honor us. and if we don't honor him, he won't honor. I mean, it's kind of basic. And again, you don't need to agree with it, but you need to see this is history. This is what George Washington actually thought.

So it's so amazing. But the story of the Boston massacre, that's the classic example where, you know, the British officers that were, or the British soldiers that were attacked these murderers and they were not. They really were not. It's just, it's simply not fair.

And John Adams, God bless him. he wanted to be fair. He said, if we're not fair in how we treat them, we want to treat people the way we want to be treated, golden rule. And it's a signal moment for me that the course ahead, it's going to be along biblical lines. It's not just, hey, we want to win, we want independence, we hate the British.

It was far more measured and beautiful that they said, we want to honor God, we want to do the right thing. And it's just, again, it's everywhere. but that is the classic case that John Adams, what a hero. Yeah. What a hero that he would do a thing like that. And the fact also, Eric, that at the end of having that case where he virtually is against all of the Patriots and who he's siding with, but his integrity was so high that ultimately

all of the Patriots, the Sons of Liberty, they're at the end, they're like, we still respect you. I mean, you know, at first, maybe a little frustration, but ultimately they come around because they recognize where he was coming from. And this again is speaking to the character, the influence, and the leadership of John Adams that we forget today. It's also worth noting that John Adams later in a letter, I think it's a Jefferson where he writes that the first bloodshed in the cause of liberty was shed there on King Street, the Boston Massacre. And part of why I like to point this out is because it's believed the first one that died there was Crispus Attics, who was a black patriots. So the first one that died in the America Revolution fighting for the cause of liberty was a black patriot.

So even, you know, the narrative of the day was all these rich white guys to enslave all these black people. We get so much of the narrative wrong because we only know the modern telling of it. And we haven't actually gone back to steady it originally. Again, which is why I'm so excited your book is coming out to join in the reclaiming of truth. I have to, I have to say, I keep forgetting to say this to my audience. If you go to my website, EricMtaxas.com, if you pre-order a copy of the book, pre-order, So it'll be sent to you on June 2nd. If you do that, we will send you a PDF of the book so you could read the book immediately.

That's a weird, crazy thing. I don't know who thought of it. But so if you want to read the book immediately, pre-order it and email us and we'll do that. We'll be right back talking to Tim Barton. Hey there, folks. I've been saying that 2026 must be the year of accountability, whether talking about government spending or the way we steward our own families, we have a moral duty to seek the truth. But let's be honest, in the world of Medicare, truth is often the first casualty. Seniors, like my 91-year-old mom, are bombarded

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Talk to a real person and get the honest answers you deserve. Welcome back. I'm talking to Tim Barton of Wallbuilders, wallbuilders.com. So, Tim, you know, I keep saying that in the process of researching my book, I really didn't have an angle. And I was just astonished. at how Christian the whole thing is, how in fact, Samuel Adams, who again, one of the great heroes, everybody should know and love Samuel Adams because he was at this from the beginning before anybody.

But he really says that our form of government is like, I think he calls it the Protestantism of government. In other words, it's like what the reformation was in theology. our government, this idea of liberty, is just like that except in the form of government. In other words, this kind of government that we're talking about, these liberties coming from God, this whole thing is what they believed

was God's idea of government, of men governing themselves, not being governed by a king or a tyrant or a pharaoh or a bureaucracy, but governing themselves and looking directly to God, and that's where George Whitfield comes in. I mean, this is not escapable, but most Americans don't know it, which is why I'm so excited that during the super centennial year,

people are going to be focusing on American history. And it's our opportunity to kind of tell them, hey, this is exciting. This is true. It's exciting. And there's so many stories, little stories that people don't know. I mean, Henry Knox, getting the guns from Taekondyroga, the story of Nathan Hale, that I just said, I've got to put in my book.

I know you know all this stuff. But a lot of people don't. think when you know this stuff, it's hard for you not to love this country. I completely agree. And I would add something that would be worth people looking up. Because as we're, you know, you're saying you discovered so much in the researching. And I think for a lot of people, they go, I don't know where to look. And so I would say, let me give two things I think people should look up. The first one, the Sons of Liberty are really the ones with helping, credited helping kind of stir up this movement in a lot of ways.

They start some Massachusetts, but then they start these Sons of Liberty programs all over the colonies, and they have committee of correspondents. Sam Adams is one of the guys who is leading committees of correspondents, and the committees of correspondents is basically what we're doing now, where they're like, we need to start conversations with people in all the colonies so we can all get on the same page. We can all be united against this tyranny, against these unbiblical things. Sam Adams wrote the very first ever committee of correspondents. he wrote it in 1772.

And this is one of the two things I would encourage people to look up. So when Sam Adams rights, there were three sections to it. And he was talking about how the king and these British appointed governors, they are violating our rights on every possible level. And so the three categories, he says, it's your rights as colonists as men,

the right of the colonists as Christians, and the right of the colonists as British subjects. And what he points out is the king's violated this on every level. Like he's treating us like we're not men. He's treating us in a way that is antithetical to Christianity, and he's treating us in ways where he's actually denied our British rights as British citizens. What's fascinating in the second section where he talks about he's denied our rights as Christians, the opening line from that segment, he said,

the rights of the colonists as Christians may be best understood by reading and carefully studying what was given to us by the head of the Christian religion found in the Gospels. So his opening segment is, guys, if we would just go read the New Testament, if we would just study the life of Jesus, you would see clearly what he is doing is anti-Christian. But the reason it matters, again, this is the very first of the committee of correspondent. This is their opening statement to why we should be unified. And when you're opening statement is, guys, you should read your Bible and study Jesus so that we can be unified on this issue.

This is not a secular movement like we're told today. And so that's one I would encourage people to read. because as you're talking about all of these incredible heroes, we don't know, this is the first writing that's one of the major buildups to the moment where the movement begins. We have all these heroes. But then I would say the conclusion of this, when John Adams is president, and this is back to one of the heroes, John Adams, he writes a letter to the militia of Massachusetts in 1798. It's his second year's presidency. And this is where his most famous line comes from,

that our Constitution is made only for a moral and a religious people. It's wholly inadequate to the government or any other. That entire letter is five paragraphs. And I would encourage everybody go read all five paragraphs. Look that letter up. It's his letter to the militia of Massachusetts 1798. And it is staggering. He doesn't just argue that our government doesn't work

if we don't have a moral and religious people. He expounds and expands that thought so greatly. He said, this is like if we're trying to, to hold back evil in our country and we don't teach people to be virtuous and moral and religious. He said it's like trying to catch a whale and a little like fishing net. You can't, you can't strain it. You can't stop it. The only thing that allows us to be free, the only thing that will restrain evil is if we teach the rising generation to be religious and moral. This is his argument again, looping in the fact that this was never a secular movement.

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We're talking to Tim Barton of Wall Builders. Tim, you were just saying, like, again, the evidence just piles up and up and up and up. And in my book, I don't go really far past the end of the war. I mention a little bit. But it is so clear, again, this is what is astonishing to me, is that the religious nature of the revolution, of the founding, is so clear that it is astonishing to realize

that some other version has been sold and that most people don't know this. I mean, one example of this is in 1775, when Washington sends Benedict Darnold to lead a thousand men through the main wilderness up to Canada, they stop in Newburyport and they visit the grave of George Whitfield.

George Whitfield, the greatest evangelist probably ever. They visit his grave. he's like the saint of America. He's the American saint. Why? Because he preached the gospel, because the gospel of Jesus Christ leads to this idea

that we have no king but Jesus. And the idea that all these officers visit his grave and, obviously, I write this in my book because it's so creepy and weird and amazing, they open the grave and they see that his body has turned to dust,

but pieces of his clothing are still there, the cuffs of his clothing and his collar, and they cut it into strips, so they take it like holy relics. And I'm thinking, this is like, this is like the grave of Billy Graham.

You know, you kind of think this is an officer in Washington's Army leading an expedition. They think of George Whitfield, the evangelist as the, the proto architect of the whole thing. And you think,

how come most Americans don't know that? Because that's kind of telling that officers would go to, first of all, that they would hear a sermon, the sermon in this church, which was one of the great, Candlestick Churches of the Great Awakening in Newburyport, Massachusetts,

that that's, they're, they're taking all this stuff in, and then they go down to the great, I mean, it's like you'd make it up, except this is history. It is, and it's not disputed. It's just not taught today. And that's a crazy part. You can go back, for example, read John Adams' letter to Abigail about the first time Congress ever symboled, September 6, 1774. And John says, Abigail, the first motion made was made by Thomas Cushing.

it was that we should open with prayer. They debated it. They finally agreed to bring in the Reverend Jacob Duchet. When the Reverend Jacob Duchet shows up, not only do they have a prayer meeting, they end up reading the Bible, four chapters of the Bible. It's a two-hour prayer meeting and Bible study.

And that's an official congressional records. The point is, this is not historically debated. It's just not historically taught. And it's almost as if for a reason it's not taught because it's like the modern academics did not want people to know, we have a Christian foundation and that we do have an authority

higher than government. It is God. The founding fathers believed it built our country on it and it's really what we should remember and return to as part of our celebration of the greatest nation in the history of the world. It is, again, every American needs to know this history

and it's one of the main reasons I wrote my book. I just kind of thought like, we need to know our history. I didn't know how dramatically Christian it would be. I did not. And so my book is not about that. My book is just a story of the telling of the revolution.

But everywhere you look, you see evidence of this. And I had to kind of pull back on it because I thought people were going to think this is some religious book. But it's just absolutely everywhere. Where you just said about the first meeting of the Continental Congress in 1774 that, you know, when they say, oh, yeah, we should pray. And then somebody, John Jay and one of the Rutledge is like, nah, I don't know if we should pray, because there's so many denominations in the room,

we don't want to offend anybody. And then Samuel Adams rises and says, no. Now, he was really the most religious in some ways. He says, no, I will hear a prayer from any patriot. And the prayer, Duchet, is Church of England, an Anglican, which is as far from the fire-breathing, born-again congregationalism of Samuel Adams. But he doesn't care. He's like, no, we're all united.

in Christ. And so here you have Doucher who you think of that he's going to be this like, you know, it's going to be liturgical and dry. And he gives this extemporaneous prayer that everybody's weeping and it's it's, it's, this is our history, folks. This is our history. You've just got 30 seconds left. What have we forgotten Tim Barton? We got to have you back. This is crazy. I would love to come back. Yeah, we just have to remember our nation was built on a set of principles, unlike anywhere else. And it's built on the idea there's a God. Our rights come from him. Government's primary role is protect those rights. We need to receive. store those concepts in America.

And folks, I know I mentioned it, but if you have not pre-ordered my book, you can read the book today, and I'm very excited about this. This is a crazy idea. If you go to EricMetaxus.com and you'll see, but if you pre-order it, we will send you the manuscript, a PDF of the manuscript today. I just want, I want every American to know our history. Tim Barton, what you and your dad have done is just amazing. people need to go to wallbuilders wallbuilders.com wallbuilders.com.

Tim, my friend, thank you. Thank you, Eric.