The Eric Metaxas Show - #113 - John Zmirak / Sidney Powell

Episode Date: May 7, 2026

Today On The Eric Metaxas Show, Eric talks with John Zmirak about Tucker Carlson’s recent comments about President Trump, the spiritual danger of confusion and manipulation, and why America’s Christian founding matters more than ever. They also discuss Eric’s new book Revolution, America’s covenantal roots, the biblical basis of liberty, the difference between America and ideological revolutions, and why the country cannot survive if it forgets that our rights come from God. Later, Eric continues his conversation with Sidney Powell about 2020, election integrity, evidence, and why the fight for truth is still not over. Subscribe for clips from The Eric Metaxas Show to hear politics and culture from a Christian perspective.⭐ PRE-ORDER TODAY:Revolution: The Birth of the Greatest Nation in the History of the World📕: https://a.co/d/0ir3NlapTODAY'S SPONSORS:⭐ FREE SLAVES with CSI: https://csi-usa.org/metaxas/📢 Don’t Let the Financial Storm Destroy Your Wealth and Future!https://www.metaxasgoldira.com/⭐️ BlockTrust IRA: https://www.metaxascrypto.com/⚖️ Legal Help Center - Get Free Legal Help Today: https://www.legalhelpcenter.com/🛏️ MyPillow — Save BIG with code ERIC: https://www.mypillow.com/☀️ Honest, fast, and free Medicare plan guidance: https://askchapter.com/metaxas/💧 Sentry H2O: https://sentryh2o.com/

Welcome, folks. It is the Eric Metaxis show, I'm Eric Metaxis. My guest today will be John Zmirich. My guest now is John Zmirich. John, welcome. It's Thursday, May 7th, as far as I can tell. Eric, I, you know, working from home, I sometimes lose track of what day of the week it is. What can we talk about? I don't think I have said that, and we don't need to have a conversation about this, but I wanted to say it at some point this week when I had a moment that, that the Met Gala is demonic. Every year it becomes more demonic, more openly demonic. We don't need to go into that, but I don't use that word lightly.

It just seems clearly to be spiritually very, very dark. A lot of people who listen to this show, watch this show would know that, but I'm just here to affirm you in your instinct. But John, we've got other happier things to talk about. Well, let's talk about demonic for a minute because it just came out a few days ago. A New York Times reporter did a long video interview with Tucker Carlson,

and finally Tucker Carlson is being pressed by a real journalist who asked him tough questions and then asked him follow-up questions. And by the way, and the shock is the real journalist, are you ready for this, folks? Works for the New York Times. That's right? There is another headline, an actual journalist working for the New York Times interviewing Tucker Carlson. Now I spoke about this, a couple of times. a couple of days ago briefly, but please go ahead.

Well, she presses him on various things. One of the things is his interview with neo-Nazi gutters knight Nick Fuentes, and he says, oh, yeah, I regret that. You know, I've suffered a lot because of that. Really, the reason I wanted to talk to Nick was because I was so concerned about the Iran War. Now, here's the problem. he spoke to Nick Fuentes months before the Trump actually attacked Iran. So he's just making stuff up.

He wanted to talk to Nick Fuentes about a war that wasn't happening yet. Oh, okay, Tucker. Well, if we want to give him the benefit of the doubt, conceivably, he wanted to talk about the strikes on Iran or the administration's posturing toward Iran. But look, what you're saying is basically true. Tucker makes things up. that it takes my breath away. And that's an example. He just seemingly would say anything.

This is the great part that was all over social media for days. She says, well, for instance, you suggested that President Trump might be the Antichrist. And Tucker looks suddenly like totally constipated and says, I never said that. Those words never crossed my lips. she reads then a transcript of him saying, could Trump be the Antichrist? Tucker dulls down. No, I never said that.

I don't really even know what the Antichrist is. I mean, it's a theological conundrum. It's a mystery. And he goes off and bloviates for about 10 minutes in that BSing style that we all remember from being undergrads and not having done the reading and still having to write an essay question. He's blah, blah, blah.

But then when they show the video interview, they cut in the video of Tucker literally saying, could Trump be the Antichrist? I don't know. So he literally denied saying it to a reporter. He knew the video was out there. He's not even that good at lying. When he doesn't control the microphone,

when he is not totally in charge, he makes a fool of himself. He's only good in the narrow manipulative environment where he is Judge Yuri and executioner runs the entire show. Jeremy Boring did a wonderful video on his YouTube channel about how Candice Owen and Tucker Carlson use classic techniques of manipulation. He calls it presuasion where they plant leading questions. They raise a question and then they act as if the question's already been answered or it's obviously true.

It's obviously true that Israel blackmail Trump into attacking Iran. It's obviously true. Or they'll say everyone knows, obviously. They say very strongly with no evidence. But I guess there's still the question which no one has been able to answer why. Why is Tucker doing this? In other words, we can catalog all the stuff that he's saying, which is stupid, patently false, preposterous, confusing. We can catalog that.

But then the question is why? Why would he be doing this? I have three. And it really seems diabolical. I can't for the life of me figure out why Tucker Carlson, who some years ago seemed never to do this kind of thing, is suddenly doing this. I mean, I confess to being perfectly baffled by it. But I just want to say it is despicable. It is very harmful to the nation.

When you suggest to people who are too ignorant to really know what to make of it, maybe Trump is the end of course. Oh, I don't think you put his hand on the Bible. This is classic conspiracy theory. It really is, it is diabolical because you're confusing people. You're sucking people into something. Candace does that all day long. But it's really wicked. And it's very harmful to the nation.

It's like, I'm not saying that Jews cause bad weather, but it's worth thinking about. It's worth asking. Let's think about it. But that's the point. It's very, it's very, there's a level of deception. It's very ugly, very ugly, the way he, he pulls that off. Oh, I'm just asking a question. And I say it's kind of like Satan in the garden saying, you know, did God really say?

I mean, I'm not saying he didn't, but I'm just asking like, did he? Because I don't, I don't remember that he did. Are you sure? I think maybe he didn't. You should think about the fact that he didn't say that. It's, but I mean, that's really what it is. It's to plant doubt where doubt ought not to be planted. And for him to suggest that the president is not just awful, but might be the antichrist.

He then suggests that Trump has the powers of a warlock or a sorcerer that he says, I think it's supernatural. He actually says that. Yeah. Yeah. And then you want to say, slow down. What in the world, sir, do you mean? What are you talking about? it's really diabolical.

I think it's literally diabolical. We can trace the turn in Tucker to what he himself said was the demonic attack. He said he woke up, he had a dream he was attacked by demons and woke up with claw marks on his body. I believe him. I believe he fought Ba'al and Baal won because he did not respond to this demonic attack the way you or I would have. Go to a pastor, go to a priest, find some spirituals, authority. How do I deal with this? I'm barely churched. I grew up as a lapsed episcopalian. I'm sort of vaguely kind of Christian. Go to an expert. I mean, if you find that you have cancer,

okay, you go to an oncologist, you go to an authority someone who knows about it. Tucker said, oh, I don't need a priest. I don't need a pastor. I'm just going to read the Bible. I can do it all on my own. I did it my way. Yeah, that's the great way to fight Satan by being proud. Yeah, because Satan hates pride, right? So basically, I think Tucker surrender to whatever spirit it was. Now, I want to talk a little bit about this. Demonic possession, we think of it in terms of the exorcist, the head spinning around, vomiting, the person would be, you know, convulsed with pain. And by the way, folks, you know what?

We're not joking. I mean, even though, thank you for the clash reference, I fought the ball and the ball won, but, or ball. But we are not joking. No. It doesn't get more serious than this. It does not get more serious than this. This is truly horrifying to think of a human being opening the door to darkness and then somehow allowing that darkness to hold sway. That would be my earnest guess.

I can't say for sure, but that would be my earnest guess because nothing else makes the slightest sense in terms of why he's going in this to do. direction. Let me give you a little important theological background. From Malachi Martin, who was a Catholic priest, best-selling author, who was president in multiple exorcisms, there are two types of what we call possession. One is where the person's struggling and thrashing, and it's obvious, it looks like they're either insane or something spiritual going on. That's called imperfect, imperfect possession, where the soul has not assented to this. It's basically being invaded and occupied against its will. That's what you usually see in the movies. There's a much graver, darker form that's called perfect possession, where the soul has accepted the demon. It welcomed it. It's working with it.

It feels fine. He never felt better. Popeye is the 12th thought that Hitler was possessed that way. I was just going to say, when Tucker Carlson suggested that President Trump has these supernatural abilities. I thought you're wrong, but that's not crazy because, in fact, Hitler did. People around him got that sense. But I'm just fascinated that we know that there are people that are going to believe this, that when Tucker says stuff, that there are people that are going to go, well, that's interesting, and they're going to believe it. Pius to the 12th warned Joseph Kennedy, who was then the U.S. Ambassador to Britain, back in 1937, just before he became Pope, he said, you, cannot negotiate with that man, Hitler.

He is perfectly possessed by Satan. Okay, pause. We're going to come right back to this. Before we go, folks, we are doing a campaign with CSI, Christian Solidarity International. I beg you to go to ericmetaxis.com to click on the banner. Participate. This is a glorious, glorious opportunity to live out your faith. Ericmetaxis.com.

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Welcome back talking to John Zmirak. John, you were just relating something very important. Please reprise what you were just saying before we went to the break. Pius X.12th, who had been the Vatican ambassador to Germany, so he'd been on the scene, he'd been on the spot, got together with the then-embasid U.S. ambassador to Britain, Joseph Kennedy, the father of John F. Kennedy, and who, by the way, was sort of pro-Nazi.

Pius X.12 sort of rebuked him and said, you can't find any accommodation with the Nazis. Hitler is literally perfectly possessed by Satan. And perfect possession means that for you, the demonic presence is like the angel on your shoulder. It's like the best supplement you ever took. You feel better every day because you have this special guidance. You have this brilliant spirit whispering ideas to you

on how to manipulate people, how to control people. How do, I don't know, take over a country and purge it, of ethnic minorities. I think... How did the Pope have this information? Because I've not heard this. He had watched his effect on people. He'd watched how this high school dropout,

former painter, former bad artist, had managed to take over the most literate country in the history of the world, which was Germany in 1933. How he'd managed to come from total obscurity, went to prison for an attempted revolution,

wrote an insane, unreadable book about how he wanted to massacre tens of millions of people and manages to get democratically elected to the most advanced country in the world, Germany. He traced this to preternatural, that is demonic powers. I think Tucker confessed he had a demonic encounter, and then all of a sudden, in the months after that, starts whipping up hatred for God's people, the Jews. don't think that's an accident. Same deal.

I just want to be to be clear, and I mentioned this, I think, on Monday, I had the privilege of some time with Dennis Prager over the weekend on Saturday, last Saturday. And I spoke to him about this, and he referenced things that Tucker said before this overt demonic attack. So I want to be clear that the demonic operates

in all kinds of ways. And what Tucker related may only have been one part of this bigger puzzle. Yeah. Now, there are non-woo-w, non-mystical explanations that we could look to.

Tucker comes from He's like the last remnants of the white Anglo-Saxon Protestant elite of New England They're the people who used to dominate our culture Used to be they used to set the tone Think of Theodore Roosevelt Think of all the people Who John Foster Dulles

Yeah actually Dulles was Catholic No no his son converted That's right that's right These people The Walsh elite drop the reins, people like the Bush family. They had been running the country, and they sort of just gave up. They sort of just went away.

They stopped producing leaders. In that same period, American Jews who had assimilated and worked hard and studied at places like Harvard and Yale, where they used to be excluded. They used to be quotas keeping out Jews from places like Harvard and Yale. in that time people like Norman Padoritz and Irving Crystal had become major intellectual forces through hard work, through education, through study, which are things that are endemic to Jewish culture, the love for the written word, the love for study, they had become influential. And I've known, and I'm not going to name them, but I've known people from New England-Wass families who just deeply resent the fact that Jews have taken what? what they see as their rightful role as major leaders of the culture. And it's a sort of tribal resentment, like the Apaches being mad that the Iroquois showed up. There's that on the purely natural level.

But I think it's something, what's going on right now is much more spiritual. It's an attack on the biblical origins of America. America's origins are in the Bible, and especially in the Old Testament, our founders, especially the people who founded the colonies, like people like the Puritans, they saw themselves as covenanting with God

in a manner analogous to the Jews with Abraham, the children of Abraham and the Israelites with Moses, the idea that we are going to have a deal with God where we submit ourselves to God. You know, if you were talking to anybody but Eric Metaxon, I feel like I have to interrupt and say, hey, pal, hey, I think you got that from my book on the American Revolution, or at least I wrote about it so much in my book on the American Revolution

that I have to bring it up. It is true. It's amazing. When we come back, we're going to talk more. Folks, before we go, I want to recommend to you in case you want to do something crazy and beautiful. We are doing another campaign with our friends at CSI. These folks are heroes.

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Click on the banner. Couldn't be easier. Please go to ericmetaxis.com. Click on the banner. Very important. Welcome back talking to John Smirak. John, go. Yeah, so I was bringing it around

to your wonderful new book, which I read in the PDF because the physical book hasn't arrived yet. Our country, what people say America is a propositional nation, I don't think that's accurate. Propositional nation suggests that it's a theory. It's just an experiment. It's like a lab test. And most experiments fail. Revolutionary France was a proposition. The Russian Revolution was a proposition. The Nazi revolution was a proposition. We're going to rule the country based on this abstract theory about humanity that we came up with. America wasn't founded on some intellectuals supposition or on some political theory that a couple of people thought was a good idea.

Whenever that happens, you get catastrophe every single time. America was founded on a covenant with Almighty God. It was founded on... Stop. That's crazy talk, John. This is a podcast. We can't go there unless it happens to be true. And lucky for you, I know it is true. And I want to be clear with my audience.

I didn't really know this until I did the research for my book. When you see it for yourself, it's so... clear that it is shocking, and I know you can encourage on Zmirak, it is shocking that everyone in America doesn't know this, that they don't teach this in schools. It doesn't mean you need to be a Christian, but you need to know how the country came into being. This is how it came into being. And where I think you're going with this is that this is why it has succeeded. This is why we are still a free people by God's grace 250 years in. Right. And all the statements in the Declaration of Independence. People tend to read the stuff about inalienable rights,

equality. They read these as political assertions. If they're just political assertions, they're false. Yeah, it's like Jefferson came up with it. He was just, you know, drinking coffee and just thinking hard and womb. He came up with these ideas. Like, no, ladies and gentlemen, these ideas were already there. The only question is how to express them. So he expressed them, but they'd been there for quite some time. But Eric, the important thing is that they come from the biblical worldview. All men are created equal. If they're not created, if they just evolved, guess what?

They're not equal. They're endowed by their creator with certainly the illatable rights. Well, if they're not created, if there is no creator, they don't have those rights. So the idea of having a post-Christian America is absurd because the basis of America is that there is a God who made us equal in his sight and gave us rights that he handed to each of us individually that don't come from the government. If there's no God, all that falls apart. If there's no God, all that falls apart, and it is false. And the country goes away, and we're seeing it go away. We're seeing it be torn down. A post-Christian America is like a post-American America.

We need to understand this. And, John, this is like math. This is, this is perfectly explainable. I hope I explain it in my book. It is not really debatable. And so that's what's so fascinating to me is in the research of the book, how I thought, this is really clear. I just think people who didn't like it just kind of shoved a lot of this aside because they'd rather talk about Jefferson than about Samuel Adams. They want to pretend that you could have a skyscraper, but no foundations.

You can blow up the foundations. We're going to keep the rest of it. The foundation is God. made man equal in his sight and gave him inalienable rights. Take that away. The whole thing collapses like the Twin Towers on 9-11. I guess I should remind people that you can read the whole book, like immediately, if you pre-order a copy through my website, if you go to ericmetaxis.com.

So the actual physical book will get to you, but a month before it gets to you, we will email you the book in PDF form and you can read it right now. And John, I got to tell you because I know we don't have time, I have finally been rereading my book and laughing at, there's stuff in there that I'm so happy that I put it in there because it's so, some of it is very funny. It's not my humor. It's just that I discover this crazy stuff.

And I know we're out of time, but when I have you back, I kind of want to talk about some of that stuff because it's really nuts. Yeah, it's fun stuff. I'm glad you didn't have some censoritous editor taking out the fun parts. Well, that's actually true. I think that there's, when I discover this fun stuff, I go, this is nuts. This is hilarious.

This is crazy. But it's true. And it's, you know, there's a bizarre story about Benedict Arnold hiring this Mohawk crazy man. Anyway, there's all these crazy, funny stories. We're out of time. Folks, please pre-order the book. Go to Eric Mataxis.com. We'll be right back.

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But I was the other day in a parking lot. It was raining slightly. And I was so excited about a passage in my book, which is one of these crazy, funny stories that I was reading it aloud to somebody in a parking lot. And I thought, this is a little over the top, Eric. You shouldn't be reading from your book forcing people to listen to you in a parking lot while it's raining slightly. but the woman didn't know the woman didn't even know you you would just follow and i didn't even know what the woman was in love from your book no but i guess i'm i'm far enough past having written the book that i can breathe and begin to like you know enjoy some of it but the stories i mean i i i go out of my way to find things that i think are you know they're not just important but they're very

entertaining uh when you really look at them so i know you you sent me a list of questions which i'm process of answering online, but I don't know if you want to ask me any of them now. Oh, let's see. I'm trying to put me on this. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so one question. You make it clear in the book that America is, was only made possible by the deep Christian faith of so many of the founders and of the ordinary population and that people like

Madison and Jefferson, even Franklin and, and, and, and, and, and, and, um, all the founders said that ordered liberty, democratic republic was only possible with a virtuous citizenry and that was only possible because of their deep Christian religion. Yeah. As we see Christianity vanishing in large swathes of America, it, the question becomes, you know, can we even have a democracy? And as you are, you're, wait, let me.

having gotten to the questionnaire, given that we no longer have a religious, virtuous citizenry, it seems we can't have a democracy anymore. So what non-democratic system of government would you suggest we adopt? Maybe something like the Byzantine monarchy or the Hoenzalerns, Kaiser, what are we going to do with this irreligious populace that doesn't have virtue that therefore can't keep a republic? I'm going to go with the Hoenzollern. The Hoarensollins. That's my vote. That's my vote.

But in all seriousness, when you say we don't have a virtuous republic, we don't have a virtuous citizenry, that's not true. We have many, many, many, many millions of Americans that are full of virtue and character and integrity and faith. The question is, do we have enough of them to overcome the other forces? And I think that we are in a pitched battle. And that's why right now it is vital for us to understand, it's one of the reasons I wrote the book.

It's vital for us to understand the importance of this history. It's vital for us to understand that without faith, which cannot be coerced, right? We cannot establish the government cannot establish a religion. On the other hand, if there is not, if there aren't robust communities of faith where it is culturally acceptable or not even culturally acceptable, culturally, you feel cultural pressure to do the right thing, to be virtuous, to oppose corruption, to oppose stealing elections, to oppose stealing money from taxpayers. Unless you have a culture with enough people who believe that, you're not going to fight against it. And right now what we're seeing, and that's why I keep

saying we're now in the third existential crisis of our history, it's like a second revolution, we are fighting that fight. We are uncovering corruption. When we think about a Comey, Clapper, Brennan, trying to subvert the will of we the people. This is, how is that any different than what George III was trying to do? He's saying, shut up, you have no rights, I'm going to tell you, parliament's going to tell you, you'll do as you're told. The people in America were too Christian and too literate in terms of law and the Bible and in terms of their God-given rights to exceed to that demand.

They said, no, we will not. And if you force us, we will fight. We will not take up arms against you to begin with, but if you will attack us and you think you can force us, we will not bow down to this. And they didn't. And I really do believe that we're in a similar thing right now where you have many Americans saying, we're going to fight. And they're always going to be Americans, just like in the revolution, that they're going to say, well, I don't care. I'm going to sit on the fence and let's see which way the wind blows. And I don't want to lose my business. There's plenty of that during the revolution. But there were enough principal people. And I think. think by the grace of God there are enough principled people today to make the case, to fight, to try to get good people elected, to try to get bad people thrown out. So I believe it's really dramatically similar. But the reason I wrote the book is it all goes away if we don't know this history. We have to know the history. We have to know the truth of it. If we don't, which most of us haven't, it just evaporates and it's been evaporating, which is exactly what you're saying.

They purposely don't teach this stuff. I mean, if you go. to an American school now, you think that the U.S. was founded by Rosa Parks and Malcolm X. Because everything before that was just darkness, slavery, segregation, persecution of Indians, this black, miserable Marxist picture of American history. There's this infamous book by Howard's In, a people's history of the United States. And it is a communist propaganda textbook. giving a communist, cynical view of everything about America. And it's used in thousands of schools across the country. It's basically the go-to book,

it's this poisonous piece of hate literature. The 1619 project is his crackpot conspiracy theory invented by one bad hack journalist saying the U.S. was founded as a conspiracy to keep slavery going. It won the Pulitzer Prize and then was adopted by teachers' unions. It's now being taught across the country. This evil, it's up there with the protocols of the elders of Zion. I actually call it the protocols of the elders of James Town. That's the 1619 project, which says that the U.S. was founded for slavery.

And it broke off from Britain because it was afraid George III was going to free the slaves. How many slaves did George III try to free? Zero. He had no interest in that. It's just a lie. No, it's such nonsense. And one of the things I talk about in the book, too, is how strongly anti-slavery many of the leaders were in the revolution. We tend never to hear that.

We hear, oh, Washington and Jefferson owned slaves and blah, blah, blah. Well, let me tell you, and I cite some of it in the book, John Adams, Samuel Adams, James Otis Jr., some of the early leaders against the British were very outspokenly anti-slavery. And there's just tons of that. Benjamin Franklin. Yeah. And he started out owning slaves and he changed. And so the abolitionist movement pretty much started among Pennsylvania Quakers and then spread back to Great Britain and then spread around the world. The anti-slavery, abolitionism is an American idea that originated with Pennsylvania Quakers.

The first anti-slavery group in the history of the world was founded in Pennsylvania by American Quakers. So abolitionism is fundamentally American. Slavery is as old as as Canaan Abel. Slavery is a curse that has been across the human race in virtually every nation, virtually every civilization. It's been almost impossible to eradicate. Eradicating it was an American idea, and we should be proud of that. Well, you know, and when we say an American idea, what we really mean is a Christian idea, because America is a Christian idea. And that's another thing that I didn't know most of this.

I mean, I simply wanted to write a book that is a fun, popular retelling of this epic story of how America came into being, starting roughly in 1761 and carrying on until, you know, 1783. I didn't know that it would just be so shockingly Christian or that it's a biblical story or that they were. I mean, there's a moment where I may have mentioned it someplace else, but Samuel Adams, who really was the man behind everything and profoundly Christian, profoundly Puritan, he'd experienced the Great Awakening in the 1740s in Massachusetts, where Whitfield's preaching. And he gives a speech the day before they signed the Declaration of Independence. So they signed it on August 7th, sorry, August 2nd, 1776. The day before he gives a speech to Congress, and he says, we have restored the sovereign. We have this day restored the sovereign, capital S. In other words, we've restored the king.

Who's the king? God is the king. We're looking back to the Sinai covenant where the Israelites, they leave Egypt. It's like leaving England. They leave Pharaoh. We're leaving behind the monarchy and the oppressive authority. authoritarian system and we are free and we can now worship God directly. That's what even Adams, sorry, even Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin understood this narrative that this is,

we're going back to Sinai. We are like the Israelites of old. I mean, that narrative was central to everybody involved and today most people are unaware of it. And I think that's what one of the reasons why anti-Semitism has never been a major force in America. There have been patches of it, but over the centuries, America has been one of the most welcoming places for Jews to thrive and take part in public life. And the idea of reviving or importing Arab anti-Semitism and European anti-Semitism, importing those poisons, injecting them into the mainstream of American culture, as people like Tucker Carlson and Candace O'Nellner are trying to do, is so profoundly un-Christian and unpatriotic.

We're out of time. John Smirak, God bless you, my friend. Thank you. Thank you. Hi, everyone. If you were injured in an accident, listen up. We have legal professionals standing by to answer your questions. You can find out if you have a case and how much it's potentially worth.

I'm Gina Bellich, along with Super Bowl champ and two-time pro-bowler Vernon Davis. So, Vernon, tell everyone watching who should call right now. Well, Gina. If you or someone you know were injured in an accident that was not your fault, give us a call right now. You can find out if you have a case and how much money is potentially worth. Thanks, Vernon. You know, the phones have really been busy. So what kind of calls have we been getting? We're getting calls about all types of accidents, from car accidents to slipping falls and so many others.

So if you were injured in an accident, don't go at it alone. Call for a free case review and find out how much your case is potentially worth. Thanks, Vernon. heard the man, call now to find out how much money you qualify for. Welcome back, folks. I was, I guess, yesterday talking to Sidney Powell, and we ran out of the time and I thought let's record another segment. So, Sydney Powell, thanks for staying on because I wanted to ask you, you know, famously in, I guess it was the fall of 2020, December, or whatever it was, you, you famously or infamously said, you know, we're going to release,

we're going to release the crack in, which is just such a glorious, funny, and apt kind of term. But what was behind that, of course, is you're saying, listen, we've looked into this, we've found all this evidence. And I think, you know, you always have to address the popular narrative because the facts don't matter. What matters is do people know the facts? What facts do people know? or what are people saying which are counterfactual.

So I think there are a lot of people under the impression that, like, you were blowing smoke. I know you weren't blowing smoke because you don't. But, you know, when you said that, you were, it seemed to me, implying you've got this evidence. What do you, how do you respond to that? We had more evidence then and even now than most people who are convicted and are. in prison are there because of. I mean, we had a massive amount of evidence, and only more has come in since 2020. It just keeps coming.

There's a book out now called Stolen Elections by Gary Bernstein, and I can't remember his co-author's name, but it's a detailed book about everything that went on back then and how they stole the election. And they do it in part through the voting machines. they used every means of fraud anybody could imagine and some that we can't. But a lot of it was attributable to the voting machines and, of course, the mail-in ballots that they had to have to back up the numbers they were generating in the machines. Just look at the 2024 election compared to the 2020 election. They're what, I don't know, eight or ten million less votes in 2024 than in 2020.

That's how many they just made up. And the evidence is attached to our filings. We made four federal court filings, and we attached exhibits, experts, affidavits, and you don't usually attach evidence to complaints. Okay, so then people want to know, because people don't live in your world in a world of lawyers and stuff. People want to know, so what happened? What do you mean? You release back in, you release the evidence, and then what happened?

It seems like nothing happened. So the question is, what do you think happens? If most people see that that evidence didn't get into the mainstream media, it didn't get into the, what do you think, what happened, I guess, is everybody's questions, my question. So how the skids were greased to achieve what happened in 2020 and everybody, including federal judges, got the memo, at least the ones that we were dealing with. We did get a temporary restraining order, which is a very difficult thing to do out of one judge in Atlanta from the first case that we filed. I think he may be the only one who actually looked at some of the evidence. But then the memo got distributed, I guess. I mean, Trump's own Department of Justice backed off this issue.

They didn't look at the evidence. Barr says, oh, yeah, we looked at the evidence and there wasn't any. He didn't look at anything. I just want to break this down for the common man. And people think I'm gaslighting them when I say, I'm a common man. When it comes to this stuff, I'm a normal person. I'm not somebody who's conversant in the details. And so it seems to me what you're saying is that the establishment, people like Bill Barr,

whom Trump appointed and whom Trump trusted, betrayed the president, betrayed the American people, just as it seems pious evangelical Christians like Mike Pence and Mike Pompeo, they thought they were doing the right thing. They were being reasonable. They were being the adults in the room. But you're saying they didn't like that narrative. This is my interpretation. They thought of folks like you and Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis and Mike Lindell.

Your fringe were establishment responsible Republicans. You know, we're in charge now, to quote Al Haig. We've got this covered. And we're not going to let people see that information because it's too divisive. John Roberts probably thought it was too divisive. So instead of calling balls and strikes, instead of doing their jobs, they effectively subverted justice wickedly whatever their intentions were. And I think in most cases, their intentions may have been good intentions, but that doesn't

really matter, does it? No. They were protecting the institutions of government from any criticism as opposed to protecting the American people from an outright coup of the presidency of the United States of America and therewith control over trillions of dollars of world assets and income. Hang on a second, folks. We'll be right back. Welcome back talking to Sidney Powell. Sydney, I just cut you off there. So you were just saying that Bill Barr and others, John Roberts, they seemed to, and this is, again, this is my interpretation,

they made a decision that, listen, there may be information, whatever, but it's too divisive. We don't want riots. They seem perfectly willing to accept riots based on the fake murder of George Floyd. They seemed to be willing to accept those kinds of riots as not destructively divisive, just divisive, but not, you know, existential threats. But if they were to release this information, if they were to allow the nation to think the election had been stolen,

oh, that would be too divisive. So we're going to swat it away or we're going to sweep it under the rug. That's basically what they did. I mean, that's my understanding of it. And Donald Trump, let's be clear, folks, he was naive. He was politically naive. He didn't know that Bill Barr, who had been warmly recommended to him, would do a thing like this or that the people around him would do these kinds of things. And he trusted them because really what choice did he have? I guess that's how I see it. I just can't imagine

being in the position to write a wrong like that and not doing it. But every single branch, each of the three branches of our government, failed in its responsibility to the American people to seek the truth or justice and allowed a coup of the presidency of the United States of America. The Supreme Court failed. They put their heads in the sand. The Department of Justice, even under Trump, put its head in the sand. And of course, the Congress has no spine whatsoever, so it wasn't about to do anything. Well, I remember, you know, this is a long time ago, before Tucker was crazy, you went on his program. And I remember there was kind of a contra-tomp there

where he was pushing you, well, why don't you get me the evidence and you, I don't know what happened. But it appeared, and again, because I know you, I know what I think, but it appeared to some people like, well, you didn't really have the evidence because he was like, bring the evidence on the show.

And so can you explain what happened in your view there because it was so frustrating? Yes, it was frustrating. I would encourage people to go to defending therepublic.org and look at our website and find the filings that we made in those cases that have hundreds of pages of affidavits and expert reports and other information attached to them, including a Venezuelan who firsthand was with Hugo Chavez watching the votes being manipulated during an election. And other people have seen it happen in person too. They know it happens. They know exactly how it works. And there is more evidence there than anybody could ever. Well, I mean, it'll take you hours to go through all the evidence we had. And that wasn't even all of it. What we put in the filings was what we thought was enough to make the point to the judges in a very short time frame. But there is even more than that. And I would encourage people to read the book Stolen Elections, too. That really lays it out with even more information. because they've interviewed more and more people that worked for the voting machine companies. And go back and look at the history.

I mean, I can trace the election fraud through the machines back to the 2004 election, if not the 2000 election. There is a lot of evidence that Ohio was stolen in 2004 and Florida as well. It's just chilling stuff. And this is, I mean, it reminds me of, because I wrote this book on the American Revolution, nothing has changed. There's evil in the world. There are people who want liberty and truth and they're people who don't, and you have to fight and you have to pray. And if you don't fight and you don't pray, evil wins. And we're in the middle of that fight still now. I mean, you say that so many judges and people in power, they didn't want to know about this. And they just batted it away and they thought it would go away. And to some extent it did, but to some extent it did not. and it never will, and we are still fighting to get it out there. And I'm sure the average American doesn't really want to think that their vote doesn't count or that people in elected office may very well not shouldn't be there.

And that is true of a lot of people in elected office now. I mean, I'm convinced the fraud goes down to the very lowest levels of political office as well. It's a down ballot has done enormous damage in the last eight to 12 years. Well, we're out of time, but folks, you need to care about this. Sidney, we just love having you on. I want to tell people go to defendingtherepublic.org, defending the republic.org. Everybody has to be involved. Sydney, thank you. Thank you. Sign up for our newsletter and share it.