The Eric Metaxas Show - #117 - C. L. Max Nikias

Episode Date: May 13, 2026

Today On The Eric Metaxas Show, Eric talks with former USC President C. L. Max Nikias about his new book American Trojan, his journey from a refugee childhood in Cyprus to the presidency of the University of Southern California, and what his story reveals about the American Dream. They also discuss the collapse of academic standards, the rise of identity politics in higher education, the loss of the Western classics, the future of universities in the age of AI, and what it would take to renew American education. Subscribe for clips from The Eric Metaxas Show to hear politics and culture from a Christian perspective.⭐ PRE-ORDER TODAY:Revolution: The Birth of the Greatest Nation in the History of the World📕: https://a.co/d/0ir3NlapTODAY'S SPONSORS:⭐ FREE SLAVES with CSI: https://csi-usa.org/metaxas/📢 Don’t Let the Financial Storm Destroy Your Wealth and Future!https://www.metaxasgoldira.com/⚖️ Legal Help Center - Get Free Legal Help Today: https://www.legalhelpcenter.com/🛏️ MyPillow — Save BIG with code ERIC: https://www.mypillow.com/☀️ Honest, fast, and free Medicare plan guidance: https://askchapter.com/metaxas/💧 Sentry H2O: https://sentryh2o.com/

Hey, there, folks. Welcome to the program. The other day when I had Victor Davis Hansen on the program afterward, he suggested to me that I look into the figure of a certain Max Nicias, a Greek-American who'd written a book called American Trojan. And I am very excited to have him right now as my guest. Max, welcome. Thank you. Thank you, Eric. for having me on your program. I said off the air, I said, you know, Yasas, Yasu, you are a Greek. I can tell, of course, from your accent, you're authentic.

But you have an extraordinary story. And I want to hear your story. The title of your book is American Trojan. Many Americans affiliate Trojan with USC. You are currently the President Emeritus. of USC. How long were you, have you been at USC? I have been at USC for 35 years. I joined the University of Southern California in 1991 as a full professor of electrical engineering. But then very quickly, a number of opportunities in academic leadership came up. So for the past 35 years,

I served as a director of a National Center of Excellence in the area of multimedia and the future of the Internet, fully funded by the National Science Foundation. And after that, I became the dean of the engineering school. Then I became the provost and executive vice president of the university. And in 2010, I was elected to be the next president of USC, where I served for eight years. And now, I have to ask you because of your accent, apopo you're you're clearly from across the ocean. And I know you tell the story in the book. What is the story of somebody coming to the United States? in having these successes? I was born on the island of Cyprus.

I'm Greek Cypriot. And I was born in a very small village. And I grew up on that village the first 10 years of my life. And then my family moved to Famagusta, the nearby town. And my family became refugees as a result of the Turkish invasion on the island. 1974. So basically what I describe in the book is the immigrant refugee American dream story with resilience as a foundation of achievement. But then through my experiences here, there is also a lot of lessons on leadership in action with academic integrity against

ideological pressures. And the last two chapters, in my book are devoted to what I believe needs to be done to renew America higher education. Because as we all know, universities to a large extent have lost sight of their core mission, where identity politics have taken over academic merit. And that's putting it very mildly. I, my father came to the United States in the 50s and I had the privilege of going to Yale University and they had already in the 80s completely lost sight, grammatically lost sight of any glimpse of their founding of what made them what they were. and I have to say I've written off most elite institutions in my mind, I think they're far gone and we shouldn't waste our time. But with places like USC, because of people like you, I'm hopeful.

When did you come to this country? Did you have your schooling in this country? Yes, I came to America. I received a full scholarship to do graduate studies, the master's and PhD in engineering. from the State University of New York in Buffalo. They offered me a full scholarship, and literally that was from an NIH grant. So literally that was my ticket coming to America with my wife.

Wow. And that was in 1979. So through the book, I think the reader may derive a number of messages of that legal immigration has been part of the brand of America, but it only works when it's based on merit and responsibility. And I hope the reader derives from my book clearly sees that, yes, we came to America with my wife with nothing to our names.

This country welcomed us with open arms. We worked very hard. but also there is a lot of gratitude expressed to America and giving back to America. Because Eric, I feel that with all the technical work that I have done for the United States Navy, for the U.S. government, and a big part of it was classified. And then with my role as dean, provost, and president, I made possible the gift of education for many American students

and the privileged kids who came through USC with their full scholarships and they were able to get that gift of education and I feel having done all that that was my giving back to America. Well, that's beautiful and it's obvious that you believe in

you know, the basics. And I think that I always marvel at anybody who's able to navigate in the world of higher education, who hasn't given in to cultural Marxism that has just infected all of higher education. Again, it was there at Yale in the 80s, in the early and mid-80s. It was already there. I mean, that's where it began, critical theory. But I'm just amazed that you were. able somehow to navigate that and to be successful there and to still be a voice there. Because I feel that any voices of reason to some extent have been canceled or pushed out. You know, I'm glad that there are some who are able to fight successfully. I went out of my way when I became president, working with my provost, to reintroduce a course in Greek

classics in general education. And you can imagine we faced a lot of resistance, but I succeeded putting that in there. And then a second course, I offered to teach that was the culture of the Athenian democracy. And I taught that course as president of the university for undergraduate students together with the chairman of our Classics Department. I was teaching Sophocles, the tragedies, and he was teaching Thucetian, and he was teaching through the Peloponnesian War. And we had every year more than 50 students in the class.

But unfortunately, as, yeah, unfortunately, as you know, the Gregor Roman classics, they were labeled as oppressive, as irrelevant, and they were pushed to the margins of the curriculum. So I do hope that this year,

that when we celebrate the 250th anniversary of our republic, that we are reminded again and again that our founding fathers were very well educated in the Gregor Roman classics. I mean, even that's an understatement.

They weren't only very well educated. They based everything that created this nation on that education, on those Republican principles of Rome. I mean, it's not deniable. It's simply not deniable. And I think we have to be clear

and say that the people who are enemies of those things, they're enemies of the West in general, and they're the enemies of America. There's no way around it. In other words, they are trying to pretend that they care about the Constitution or they care about democracy, but you can't have democracy if you don't understand what it is to govern yourself and how our founders managed to pull it off. And it was always looking back to the Bible and to the Greeks and Romans.

This is not debatable. That's right. I mean, they knew that. advantages and limitations of the Athenian democracy, and they wanted to avoid those limitations. The map of the Athenian democracy that could decide one thing one day and the next day change its mind. But they were also very well aware of the Spartan constitution and, as you said, of the Roma Republic. So I read the Federalist Papers by Madison and Alexander Hamilton. It's all in there.

Well, it's really amazing to me that we could have Americans unfamiliar with these things or worse than unfamiliar but to be the enemies of these ideas or even of exploring, daring to explore these ideas. We have a thing we've started here in New York. We've been doing it for 26 years called Socrates in the city where we have conversations on the big questions. And I think even that concept that there is such a thing as truth. reason our way toward it.

It's amazing that Socrates, who was not a Christian, nonetheless, had an innate sense of faith that we can reason our way toward the truth. There's such a thing as that. We're going to a break. We'll be right back with Max Nikias. Folks, this is important. If Medicare has you confused, if you've got questions, we understand, and this is why we recommend our friends at Chapter, they're there to help you to kind of,

kind of talk you through what might work best for you. This is very important that you get it right. You can call them at 571-421-12-5-3. These are our friends at Chapter 571-4-21-12-5-3. Folks, welcome back. I have the joy of speaking to a fellow Greek American Max Nikiyas. And he was just telling me, Max, you were just saying that your last name, Nikias, it's the word Nike.

It means victory, the goddess of victory. And I think of the winged Nike of Samothrace, this famous sculpture. I guess it's in the Louvre. But that's a wonderful name. Metaxas is not as wonderful. I think we're silk merchants. You know, that's where Mettaxas comes from.

But you are... But as you... go up on the propelia of the acropolis. On the right side, there is a small temple that the Athenians built, building the acropolis of wingless niki, because they did no one victory to fly away from the city. That was the symbol. I didn't know that.

I love that. Next time you visit the acropolis, take a look at that. Well, I really love Greece. My father just passed away two years ago, but he, like all Greek parents, instilled a deep love in his kids of Greece to love our heritage. And it is something that it is a beautiful, beautiful heritage.

And I think that it was, as you alluded to a few minutes ago, it was dear rigor in America that everyone knew the classics. Everyone knew the stories of ancient Greece and ancient Rome, and this was as basic as it gets. I mean, everybody knew the Bible and Shakespeare and Herodotus and Thucydides. This is a basic education. So the fact that there have been what I would call culturally Marxist forces that have pushed and pushed to get this out, but of course, what are they replacing it with? Really nothing good.

There's nothing good, unfortunately. And universities, as I explain in the book, I give specific recommendations what really needs to be done. And I enter the book actually on the title, Is There Any Hope? But I do have a question mark because that remains to be seen. If the changes are really made, the universities have to become neutral spaces where all the ideas can be debated. and discuss in a civilized manner. Cancer culture, identity politics have no place in an academic environment.

There's no thing. I mean, the only equity we have in a university environment is our academic reputation. It's the quality of the students you have and the quality of the academic scholarship of your faculty. When you lose that,

when that is no longer a priority, then it's a recipe for a disaster. Universities are no political parties, should not be political parties, should not be a government, that there is a demand that the president of the university must take a position

on any political issue that rises in Washington or even around the world. Those are recipes for a disaster. Well, we realize that these basics that used to hold sway they're gone. I mean, what is Harvard most famous for now? A DEI hire, Claudine Gay,

and if this is not bad enough, kicked out for a plagiarism scandal. And you think, my lord, we're supposed to be teaching the students not to cheat, not to steal, not to lie. And we have faculty doing it and not just faculty, but the president of the university. it's a scandal that is almost it's something out of a novel and yet it's true and this is the legacy of Harvard but of course Harvard is not alone in this

if you don't believe in the basics if you don't have a biblical view or a Western view what is truth you don't believe in this idea this naive idea that there's such a thing as truth everything is relative and again that's kind of where we are and we see what it leads to

yep and I'll give you another example, probably you saw the report from the University of California, San Diego, which is one of the top 50 universities in the country. And I give a lot of credit to this group of faculty who released the report. That was a basic arithmetic math exam that they give to freshmen. and they found that 700 freshmen students couldn't handle third to fifth grade arithmetic. And they were admitted to the university. Five years ago, only five students could have handled this type of arithmetic. So it tells you the last five years when academic quality was replaced with identity politics, here is the result.

And that's why I give a lot of credit to the university that actually released the report to the public. We'll be right back. I'm talking to Max Nikias, author of American Trojan. Folks, do not forget, if you have questions about gold or silver, we recommend, highly recommend, Genesis Gold. They'll answer your questions. We trust them. We believe in them. And you can find them at metaxis gold IRA.com. I-old ira.com. Folks, welcome back. I'm talking to Max Nikias,

whose real name, he told me off the air. We would never say it on the air, but his real name is Pizostomos, which this is, Max, how do you go from Christosomos to Max? I tell the story in the book, Eric. When I came to America, my PhD thesis advisor in Buffalo,

he says, I cannot pronounce your name. name. What should I call you? Chris. What do your parents call you? I said, well, in Greek, it's Chrysostomus, Chrysostomus, so they call me Mickeys. And he said, now, what about Max? Has a punch into it. And I said, fine. And that was, that's how I ended up. It's a nickname. I don't use it for any legal document that I signed. But this is, I like it. I like you're bringing this up, Because in Kefalonia, my family's from Kefalonia, which is another island, not as big as Cyprus.

But in Kefalonia, most of the boys are named Geracimos after the patron saint of the island. And so, Geracimos, the diminutive, this is for my non-Greek audience, the diminutive is Aquis. So it's Geracimos becomes Geracimakis, which is shortened to maquis. So everybody's named Macis, Macis, Macis.

So, yes, in Greece, you would be called, you know, Chrysostomakis. So we're going to call you Macis. And he says, what about Max? That's funny. I'm glad I asked how we got to Max. So you've been in California most of your adult life. I guess from Buffalo, you came to USC. Right.

Actually, I started my career at the University of Connecticut. So I lived in the northeast area for 13 years, and then I came to USC in 1991. I see. Well, my brother went to Yukon, and I grew up in Connecticut, familiar with Stewart. Very nice. I guess, so being in California all these years, it's an amazing thing to see what has happened to California, because California really is the picture of a state going in the direction of a lot of these elite universities. that they have taken in bad ideas,

and bad ideas, they're not neutral, they will take you in bad directions. And it's an astonishing to see, in many ways, one of the greatest states in the Union be destroyed as dramatically as it's destroyed. It must be difficult for you living in that neck of the woods. I talk about that in the epilogue of the book. The epilogue in my book, American Trojan,

it's about California. I talk about when we came to California in 1991 was still the promised land. But that is not true anymore. It breaks my heart when I see the big high-tech companies moving out. A number of people are moving out. I talk about all that. 40% of California residents today are on medical, which is Medicaid. and there are serious financial problems.

You saw what happened with the Palisade fires here in Los Angeles, the incompetence of a city, of a state government, even to deal with the fire. It's California is no longer the promised land. I talk about that in my book. And what is the book, in a nutshell, is it is the story of your life and then you get into, these different things as well? Correct. That's correct. It's a story of my life. It's a memoir,

but I also get into, it's the story of the rise of USC from my personal perspective and involvement. And I believe there are many leadership lessons that can be derived from those experiences. But also, it's some ways it's the story of how American higher education evolved and the crises that we're currently facing. How to fix it by giving specific recommendations. Yeah. Well, it's funny because if people say to me at this point, you know, my kids thinking of going to college, my first instinct is to say, skip it. In other words, in many cases, it's a waste of time and money.

And I just think that's a fact. In other words, I think it's different if you're talking about things like what you are doing, engineering. That's a little different. But if you want to go into the humanities or you want to go, you're really going into a Marxist dystopia where your kids are going to be brainwashed along the lines that we've been discussing. And that's that's much of it. And that's exactly right, Eric. And as I said in the last chapter of my book, I talk about the importance of STEM, about the importance of training the workforce that American exceptionalism needs.

it's in the area of technology, especially the AI revolution. And I think the biggest problem, as you correctly pointed out, it's for the majority of the activist radical faculty are in the humanities and the social sciences. We'll be right back talking to the author of American Trojan. Hi, everyone. If you were injured in an accident, listen up. We have legal professionals standing by to answer your questions.

You can find out if you have a case and how much it's potentially worth. I'm Gina Bellich, along with Super Bowl champ and two-time pro bowler Vernon Davis. So Vernon, tell everyone watching who should call right now. Well, Gina, if you or someone you know were injured in an accident that was not your fault, give us a call right now. You can find out if you have a case and how much money is potentially worth. Thanks, Vernon. You know, the phones have really been busy.

So what kind of calls have we been getting? We're getting calls about all types of accidents. from car accidents to slipping falls and so many others. So if you were injured in an accident, don't go at it alone. Call for a free case review and find out how much your case is potentially worth. Thanks, Vernon. You heard the man. Call now to find out how much money you qualify for. Folks, welcome back.

I want to remind you before we continue your conversation, we're doing a campaign with CSI, which is an extraordinary thing to free slaves in northern Sudan, we actually get to do this. This is not hyperbole. This is no exaggeration. This is a real thing. Unfortunately, radical Islamists are still enslaving people, usually Christians. They were doing this in the 90s, and the UN was able to put a stop to them doing it, but not to holding the slaves.

And so we have an opportunity to do something about that. If you'll go to my website, Eric Mattaxas.com, you'll see the banner. Every $250 frees a slave and sets them up in a life of freedom. This is real. We've been doing this for years, working with CSI. They're heroes. They have connections and they know how to do this. It's an amazing thing that we get to do this.

I encourage you to join us. Just go to Ericmetaxis.com and please do what you can. I continue my conversation with Max. Nikias, Nikias, the author of American Trojan, who is a professor of engineering at USC, a life trustee at USC, and President Emeritus at USC. So, Max, you know, when you talk about how do we fix higher education, you talk about that in your book, what gives you hope that there are people open to that? Because my impression is that most people in that world are not, they're not really interested in these ideas.

Well, that's why if there is any hope to fix universities, I focus that the board of trustees of a university need to step up. The president alone or a university administration cannot do it. And for a private university, who are the owners of the university? collectively is the board of trustees of a private university. They have to revisit the policies that exist. They have in the faculty handbooks, and they have to change those policies if they truly want to ensure a neutral environment

on the university campus. So that's part of my specific recommendations. And that would be the only hope If the board of trustees do not step up, they change the policies, and then they support their president to ensure that those policies apply, then there is no hope. Well, I would again, I would think that the culture, I'm just imagining that most trustees at universities, they don't have the courage to do this. They're afraid of being labeled as conservative, fascist, MAGA, whatever they're afraid of, racist, transphobic. that they are, the reason we're in this situation is because they don't have the cultural confidence

to say, no, no, this is right and that's wrong. They don't even believe in the idea of asserting what's right and what's wrong. They've just, you know, I mean, look, we can go back to 1968. When the students took over Columbia University, they took over the president's office, they were allowed to get away with it.

There's something, there's a lack of courage that exists typically in those elite groups to stand up to this kind of radicalism. I don't disagree with that, Eric, and because there are many trustees that they're loyal to as probably to political figures and not to the university first. And that's why if the universities don't address this issue themselves,

that would be the ideal. Then you are inviting, for example, the federal government to come and regulate you even more, or you are inviting Congress to come and regulate you even more, or sometimes the courts, because students like the Jewish

students what they have gone through and being afraid to be on a university campus the last three, four years, they filed a number of lawsuits. And there you had rulings from federal judges against the universities. So if you don't fix it yourself, you are inviting others, federal government, Congress of the court to come and regulate you. It's unbelievable. I guess because I believe in the free market, I wonder whether you know, starting new universities is the answer because when people ask me about my alma mater Yale,

it's just hard for me to believe that under any circumstances they could find their way back to, I don't know, I mean, they've been going wrong forever. Buckley wrote his book about Yale in 1951. So he's criticizing Yale, the Yale of the late 40s.

He's describing the Yale of the late 1940s as being given old to atheistic philosophy, to communistic philosophy. It was gone in the 40s. And so if it was gone in the 40s, what are we gonna return to? And so that to me is really the issue that this has been the long march through the institutions

and we're here. Yeah, there is a more thing that is really happening in our lives, which I believe is gonna come in and disrupt education and a social especially America higher education. And this is the artificial intelligence revolution. It's going to change everything. And it may happen sooner than later.

Because the students in the future, or not in the future, even today, using an AI system, they can have the solution to any problem, the answer to any question at their fingerprints. So the question would be, what is the role of the professor? What is the role of the teacher?

It will be more of a facilitator of a curriculum and not so much the person who is going to transmit knowledge by teaching. I can get that from an AI system and probably from an AI agent and I can interact with that agent in a much better way than interacting with a professor. So we are up for a bit.

big disruption and nobody knows how it's going to work out, but I'm not ruling it out that this may force universities to really take and look at themselves again very carefully and what is their mission. It's very simple. It's teaching and creating new knowledge through research. That's it. That's it. Well, I mean, this brings up so much because, again, we were talking about the humanities before or we touched on it, that world, I mean, it's just completely been swamped by critical theory and Marxist theory. But, you know, if I want to learn dentistry or medicine or engineering, you know, these are, they have to do with that thing called reality, which is not malleable. And so I don't want my dentist to be self-taught, but I think that in the

humanities, many people I know are absolutely self- My friend Charlie Kirk was completely self-taught, just reading and reading and reading and taking it in and learning. And I think many people, I mean, I think my own education really has came after I graduated from Yale. And so in many ways, that is another thing that is changing so dramatically that these things are at our fingertips and we can learn things on our own if we're interested in learning things. Yeah. Exactly.

And in my book, Eric, one thing that I think the reader is going to appreciate, at least I hope, is that in every chapter, I begin every chapter with an excerpt from the Greek classics, where I have it in ancient Greek and the English translation. There are only few chapters that I have also some excerpts from Shakespeare, but my book is full of excerpts from Greek classics. And in the air billow, I have a beautiful excerpt from Aristophanes' play, Blutus, the wealth, that your native country is the one on which you prosper. And I felt that was very fitting for me and my wife coming to America,

becoming American citizens, which was the happiest day of our lives when we took the oath. and now having family and grandkids. And I tell my daughters that they should feel very lucky that they were born in this country, that it's democratic ideals that our founding fathers had. They came from the Gregor Roman Plastics, which is part of their heritage. It's, I mean, we are.

We're seeing a war on the West, and I think that we are redisputed. Many people are rediscovering the treasures of the West, that without the Bible, without the Greek and Roman classics, there's no America, there's no, there's no West, all the things we take for granted, science itself, all of these things arise out of the things that we've been talking about. And I'm just so grateful that you're out there, your voice is out there. When did the book come out? I know it's, It's new.

It came on March 3rd. Okay. So a couple of months ago. So it's very recent. And it's published by Encounter books. Ah, of course. Encounter books. We're big fans of Encounter and of Roger Kimball.

Just a joy to meet you. I'd love to meet you in person, Max. And since we're done. let me simply say Sincaritia for American Trojan and also of course Christos Anesti

Alisansi thank you very very much It's a joy to have you thank you so much Thank you Hey there folks we break into a regular programming

we kind of have a news flash here in case you didn't know I'm excited to get for a few minutes at least Todd Chapman on the program he's a spokesperson for CSI Christian Solidarity International. Some of you know that we are right now doing a campaign to free slaves literally. This is a big deal. I see it as a great opportunity for people who

believe in truth and justice to be able to act on those values. And Todd, we're just always grateful when you can come on and give us a little more explanation of what it is we're talking about. Yeah, Eric, grateful to be back. And I got to tell you, This is, it's always a highlight of my schedule of my year when I get to come before you and your audience. And give an update, first of all, as to the incredible difference that the Eric Pataxus audience is making in the lives of so many individuals that, frankly, the world doesn't know about or has largely forgotten about. And I'm talking about women and children who have been enslaved for literally decades, well, at least the women. The kids, not so much because they're still very young. But these women, they've been enslaved in Sudan since the 1990s.

And CSI, in partnership with Eric Metaxus, thanks to your generosity, has been able to free literally tens of thousands of those individuals and bring them back into a new life of freedom. So we're so excited to be here and invite you to help us free even more slaves this month. Please. Please. I mean, the problem, Todd, is it's almost unbelievable. Even to me, you know, when you say things like this that we freed, you know, 1,300 human beings, I just think, can it be?

I mean, and I know it's true, but it is very hard to get my head around. So for people who aren't familiar with what it is we're talking about, talk to them. Go ahead. Yeah, this is something that most people, and I have this conversation a lot, when people ask about CSI and then we inevitably talk about, you know, what is, CSI does a lot of things, but the freeing of these Sudanese slaves is their primary focus. The only organization in the world that's actually focused on liberating these precious women and children. And people are shocked. They're like, I, you know, I'd never even heard about this. So what

happened was back in the late 1980s, Muslim marauders were basically allowed to do a bit of a kind of like a religious cleansing against Christians living in what is now South Sudan. And when I say they were allowed to do a cleansing. They were armed by the government, allowed to go in and ruthlessly murder men and, you know, take enslave the women and children in these Christian villages. And they took them up into the north, what's now North Sudan, and they've been held enslaved ever since then. And it became evident as CSI was working with the governments there to, you know, to get these slaves freed, that the governments had no inclination to do that. So CSI just said, well, we'll see what we can do and brought it to their supporters, and we've been bringing it to Eric Metaxus listeners now

for a number of years. And what's all said and done, over 100,000 of the Sudanese slaves, now grown women, many of them, most of them were taken captive when they were children, and now they're grown women, but they've lived their entire life in slavery. We're setting them free, bringing them back into South Sudan, reuniting them, reintegrating them into their home village whenever we can, and setting them up. in a brand new life of freedom. And it's just a really beautiful opportunity for you, if you've never heard about this before,

to step in and give a gift that literally will set a human being free. It's awesome. Well, again, it seems almost unbelievable, but I want to encourage my audience, folks, this is true. We've been doing this for a number of years. Without you and your support, we don't do this. We can't do this. So it is up to you.

the easiest way to do it is go to my website is just ericmetaxis.com. The banner will pop up and there are all the details there. But I have someplace here. Maybe I don't even have it with me today. But there's a phone number, which we're going to get to you. But I have to say, it is almost crazy that this is happening that in this day and age, we have this kind of thing going on on the globe. It sounds like something out of history.

unfortunately, evil and slavery are alive and well on the globe today. But the good news is that Christian faith has entered the equation and people of Christian faith know slavery is evil and have the ability, thanks to CSI, to do something about it right now. So it's a tremendous opportunity. The $250. Now, by the way, if you can't give that, give whatever you can, because it all goes to the same thing. But for every $250, it just does, it doesn't just free someone. And Chris, I don't know if you can get us the phone number,

but it doesn't just free someone from slavery. It sets them up in a life of freedom. That's what Todd was just talking about. So it's the whole package. Every $250 sets someone free. It is really just, I guess the way I see it, Todd is this is faith in action. If anybody else, what can I do? What can I do? You can do this.

Everybody can participate in this. Again, the easy way to do it is go to Ericmetaxis.com. The banner comes up. All the details are there. I beg you, folks, please participate and thank you.