The Eric Metaxas Show - #182 - Mary Holland

Episode Date: August 17, 2026

Today On The Eric Metaxas Show, Children’s Health Defense President Mary Holland joins Eric to discuss newly revealed Anthony Fauci communications, the continuing fight for Covid-era accountability, and why she believes the reckoning is far from over. They also discuss RFK Jr.’s work at HHS, changes being considered for the childhood vaccine schedule, informed consent, censorship, gain-of-function research, and the new documentary Duty To Disobey, which follows U.S. service members who resisted the military’s Covid vaccine mandate.⭐ ORDER NOW:Revolution: The Birth of the Greatest Nation in the History of the World📕: https://a.co/d/0ir3NlapTODAY'S SPONSORS:🪙 Grace Precious Metals: https://www.metaxasmetals.com/🛏️ MyPillow — Save BIG with code ERIC: https://www.mypillow.com/☀️ Honest, fast, and free Medicare plan guidance: https://askchapter.com/metaxas/0:00 Mary Holland Joins0:48 RFK Jr. At HHS2:33 How Holland Entered The Vaccine Debate4:04 Informed Consent And Vaccine Liability8:07 The Newly Revealed Fauci Communications11:30 Was Fauci Only Part Of A Bigger System?15:29 Changes To The Childhood Vaccine Schedule17:06 Why Holland Says The Reckoning Is Not Over22:28 RFK Jr. Takes On The Media24:20 Duty To Disobey27:26 What Happened To Service Members Who Refused29:22 Covid, The “Big Lie,” And Accountability- - -LIKE AND SUBSCRIBE: https://www.youtube.com/@ericmetaxas#EricMetaxas #TheEricMetaxasShow #News #PoliticsChapter and its affiliates are not connected with or endorsed by any government entity or the federal Medicare program. Chapter Advisory, LLC represents Medicare Advantage HMO, PPO, and PFFS organizations and stand alone prescription drug plans that have a Medicare contract. Enrollment depends on the plan’s contract renewal. While we have a database of every Medicare plan nationwide and can help you to search among all plans, we have contracts with many but not all plans. As a result, we do not offer every plan available in your area. Currently we represent 50 organizations which offer 18,160 products nationwide. We search and recommend all plans, even those we don’t directly offer. You can contact a licensed Chapter agent to find out the number of products available in your specific area. Please contact Medicare.gov, 1-800-Medicare, or your local State Health Insurance Program (SHIP) to get information on all of your options.

Heyy folks, welcome back. I have as my guest right now, I don't know what you call her, a legal expert and author of many books. Her name is Mary Holland. She's currently the president of the children's health defense, which you may know was recently headed up by RFK Jr. Nobody knows what happened to him. He just seems to have disappeared. But Mary Holland, welcome with the program. Thank you so much for having me.

What the heck ever happened to Bobby? He had a decent position. Of all the things we expected candidly, Eric, I don't think we expected him to end up as HHS secretary, but no position could be better for him given his mission, which is to end the chronic disease epidemic of American children. And that was a mission that he had at Children's Health Defense. No job could be more perfect for him than being HHS secretary. Well, in all seriousness, I interviewed him for Socrates in the city. I do this thing called Socrates the city in New York City. And we invited him. He was running for president at the time. Of course, he was not on Team Trump at that point. Right. And I had a joke around that, listen, you know, in the interest of honesty, transparency. I just got to somebody in the audience. I'm a Biden guy,

so I'm not going to be voting for RFK Jr., you know, my stupid jokes. And so we had a wonderful conversation, but then at the end, you know, he's sharing his, his desire to help Americans and their health. And I said to him in the rare event that you do not end up in the White House, would you consider working in a Trump administration to serve your country? Any kind of hemdenhod, and we talked and talked to talk to talking to talking. And I kept pushing. And I'm not, I don't normally do that with people. And I thought, my goodness, what a dream it would be for him to be, you know, in the administration. And so the fact, the fact, fact that that happened, nothing could make me happier. So we'll just start there with, like,

what a celebration that he is able to do all that he's doing and is going to continue to do. It just, it thrills me to death. So thank you for stepping up to the plate to take his previous job at, but what is your story? I mean, you've written many books. Give us a little bit of background on yourself. I know you're in the New York area. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm, I'm a mother. And 28, years ago, I watched my son regress into what's called autism, but I clearly had a brain injury. And I came from a very medicalized family. Both my parents were MDs and several of my siblings are in the pharmaceutical industry in medicine. And so I was really puzzled like, this is not normal. I've never heard of this hearing happening before in fairy tales and so on.

I'm a lawyer by training. So I started doing research. what was happening, and I started studying the law, and I started to look seriously at the theory that vaccines could have caused this. And at that time, in most of the vaccines that he had obtained in the first year and a half of life, they contained mercury as well as aluminum. That's not the case in the childhood schedule right now. And I was like, well, I understand what happened. This is very, not only plausible, it's biologically possible. And then I did some things that made it very clear that that he was suffering for metal toxicity. So anyway, I was like, oh my gosh, other children are as vulnerable as he was.

Other parents are as uneducated as I was. I can't do nothing about this. And so I became- So you became one of those hated anti-vaxxers. Shame on you. That's as bad as being a round-earther. Don't you know that all the experts say the earth is flat? You should just accept it and move on.

Yeah. Well, exactly. Except that's not my personality. And, you know, honestly, all along, I've been saying informed consent, you just have to be perfectly educated and no major corporate empire should have liability protection, which they do. As a lawyer, it's really obvious. There's no feedback loop here, right? The corporations have liability protection. The states can mandate these things.

Like, it's not a market. Well, Mary, before you go on, just to say that I know that when you, you know, started talking about this, or I should. say I'm guessing, that immediately you encountered people who, because they're not interested in actually having a conversation, because they're afraid to, they just label you or they just try to demonize you, ostracize you, cancel you. And you know right away, when they do that, you go, ah, I must be onto something because this isn't rational behavior, what I'm dealing with. And so obviously, you were dealing with that. And you just talked about, you know, they don't have a feedback loop.

I mean, you know, that's like saying the voters don't get to decide who represents them. You have nothing at that point. You're just slaves to some kind of a system. You know, think about it. Parents have a legal obligation to act in the best interest of their children. That's the global standard. That's what parents are supposed to do. And then parents are being compelled in order to send their children to school to inject

them what are, in fact, poisons. It's crazy. And it's been happening for a couple hundred years. It was much more contentious in the 1700-18-hundred. There was a much greater awareness. The Anti-vaccination League was a global phenomenon. And then people sort of went to sleep. And then the schedule, because of the liability protection, because of the profitability,

the childhood schedule just ramped up. So literally today, kids are being recommended to between 70 and 100 vaccines by the time they're 18, which is ludicrous. I mean, it's never... It's so funny because it makes... It just makes me think of, you know, like I'm somebody that believes in the free market. I believe in liberty, generally speaking. But we realize, or I think we ought to realize that there are limits to the free market.

In other words, at some point, it is the role of a government or the role of somebody to step up and say, excuse me, you're making a lot of money off of this. But we see some problems. There are some problems here. And in this case, you're saying it wasn't possible to address that. You have these pharmaceutical companies making billions of dollars and just like a freight train, nothing can stop them. You know, they captured the industry. And one of the things Bobby Kennedy used to say when he was at Children's Health Defense is literally when you have these mega corporations and complicit government, the only thing standing between an innocent child and these corporations was their mother. It was like one parent standing on behalf of the child.

If you see that this is bad for your kid, you watch your child regress or have seizures or lose milestones, it's your job as a parent to say, no, I'm not going to do this anymore. And yet by law in states like New York, where I am or Connecticut, where you are, you don't have that choice as a parent. How insane is that? It's truly like at odds with our obligation as parents to act in the best interests of children. I don't see this as a partisan issue, Eric. I don't think Bobby Kennedy sees it. is he says that children are not Democrat or Republican. Children are children. And one of the other profound things that he said is a healthy child has a thousand dreams.

A sick child has but one. They want to be healthy. Health is so transcended. It's really about being human. We all want and need to be human. We need to be healthy. And yet really literally this is about that because part of what's happening with the chronic disease epidemic, of course it's the medicine.

Of course it's the food. Of course it's the lack of exercise. Of course, it's the quality of the air and the water, but it's also about the injections that people get. And I think COVID made that perfectly clear. Well, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes. And also, yes. I got to tell you, you know, originally,

I ought to have said it in the beginning, but the news that came out recently that Fauci's texts revealed that he had qualms about the vaccine, causing miscarriages. And then he swallowed that. And children died. People had miscarriages.

Women had miscarriages. Parents lost their children because, ostensibly, Fauci somehow determined that it wasn't, I don't know, politically correct to bring up what he was thinking. What is your guess? I mean, I'm just fascinated. because people, you know, have talked about that he's profiting from this. He was profiting from it, whatever.

But it's astonishing to me that somebody could look the other way when they have a sense that people will die. I guess I shouldn't be so shocked that people can become so hard-hearted that they simply, it doesn't affect them. I don't know. Yeah. Sadly, Eric, it's not the first time, right? So doctors had the highest participation in the Nazi party.

It was doctors that really started the euthanasia program in Germany. Doctors, unfortunately, we see have been very obedience, a very hierarchical profession. We did a film called Vax 3 authorized to kill. The hospitals were killing machines during COVID. If you were unvaccinated, you really were a target to be given remdesivir, death is near, and you were a target to go on a ventilator. It's unfortunately, it's not shocking to me that Dr. Fauci in his private words said things completely at odds with what he said to the public. But I think what's so extraordinary is that between Secretary Kennedy and Senator Ron Johnson, his private diaries, his entries, his entries on federal servers have become public.

And I think people can see how astonishingly two-faced this person was who called himself the science and who was lionized throughout the world. as being somebody who cared about public health. What we can see from these private entries is that was the last thing on his mind. What was on his mind was meeting the Kardashians. It was, you know, lying to the public, making sure that he covered his own behind, like those of the other scientists, that he knew that it was from Wuhan. I think that the lab where he had funded gain of research science, I think it's pretty clear that he was a very, very experienced, arguably skilled liar.

And candidly, in Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s book, The Real Anthony Fauci, it does go back to the AIDS era. And Dr. Fauci certainly learned a lot during that era and had a lot of lies that he perpetrated on the public. And frankly, was never held to account. And of course, it wasn't just Dr. Fauci. And of course, NIAID, where he was head was in an agreement with the CIA. This was at a much higher level than Tony Fauci. He's the fall guy. I still would like to see him fall, which has an appellee. yet. But this was done at a much higher level. This was done in the Department of Defense. This was done at NATO. This is done in the intelligence community. And I think we have to recognize that. Today's show is brought to you by Grace precious metals. In an industry that can be confusing,

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If we're in a war, we can be much more effective with bio weapons. Let's create some bio weapons. I'm assuming that's what we're talking about. Yes. So I think the Kennedy's book, again, that came out of the real Anthony Fauci, the Wuhan cover-up, is a book about, in part, the history of bio-weapons research. This goes way back, Eric. This didn't start with COVID.

And in fact, there were 20 different exercises that the U.S. government held with different agencies about how are we going to respond when there is. is an outbreak of infectious disease and how are we going to handle misinformation and how are we going to handle vaccines? And I don't think we've gotten to the bottom of this. I think what Ron Johnson is doing in the Senate is important. I think that the entries from Dr. Fauci are important. But candidly, there's a lot more for us to dig through here that must be done if we're going to avoid this happening again. Unbelievable. I just, it's just so extraordinary because we're talking about things, this seems like some kind of a, you know, Michael Crichton novel. It's like a,

like a biblical end time scenario because these things weren't really possible in the past. But suddenly now we have the ability to in the lab create things that can wipe out civilization. I mean, it really doesn't seem like the kind of thing that could really ever actually happen, except now that it's happened. And now it's up to human beings, flawed human beings, to be making these decisions, and we see from what Fauci and others, Dr. Francis Collins, what they've been willing to go along with

is horrifying. And so I think when people, you know, talk about the Nazi doctors, you know, it really does take some courage to stand against whatever the zeitgeist is or at least in your community, the movement, you know,

we've got to go in this direction. And it's always, it's always based on fear. It's always the idea that, Well, if we don't do it, they're going to do it first. We better do it, you know. And there's some reasoning behind that. I mean, there's some sense to that.

But at some point, that's like when people say, like, listen, if your kids are going to do heroin, they might as well do your heroin in your basement. Otherwise, they'll do it in the neighbor's basement, you know. But even if that's your view, Eric, then you don't set up your gain of function lab in China under the Communist Party. I'm sorry. Like, that was insane. Oh, no, no, no.

That's what we were doing. you know, that's what we were doing. But, you know, I do think that there's a shift in the zeitgeist right now. So not only is the world having to deal with the two-faced Tony Fauci, and they can see that in his own words. But I think that what President Trump and Bobby Kennedy did on Monday with their executive order on shifting the childhood vaccine schedule, I do believe there can be some very significant changes in the next two years under their guidance and their administration. And then who knows what happens after this? this executive order, it's not a law, but it's significant. That executive order put in place a process that requires reevaluation of lots of dimensions of the childhood schedule, and that's really important. Just to go back to the miscarriages with the COVID vaccine, my friend Naomi Wolf was screaming about this. Yeah, she was.

Way, way, way, way, way back. She was. And everyone said to her, you know, oh, no, shut up. We're not interested in hearing what you have to say. say, you know, you're a chicken little, you're just trouble. We're just going to cancel you. We're going to marginalize you as a, you're a conspiracy theorist. And they did that pretty successfully. They did it to me, to some extent, my whole YouTube channel was wiped out because I dared to have Naomi on and she brought up vaccine passports or something like that.

And it's fascinating that we've all lived through this. I mean, that we've lived through a time that I think prior to what we've been through, we couldn't imagine it actually happening in America, but it has happened. It continues to happen to some extent. What is your sense going forward for the country? Because I think there are many people, they want to see justice. They want to see people like Fauci and others held to account. And down the line, I mean, this is like the Nazi party. It wasn't just Hitler and 10 people. No, of course not. It's people down the line who said, we're going to go along with it. So what if, you know, some Jews died? I'll never meet them anyway. So what? I want to live my life. There are tons of people in the medical establishment, in the scientific establishment, in the educational establishment, they just went along with it. And they knew to some extent that they were going along with it and that they could get away with getting along with it. They didn't want any trouble. Yeah. I mean, this is a very, you know, the ends justify the means was truly the philosophy. It is a Bolshevik idea that the ends justify the means. And that was at the heart of the zeitgeist of COVID. So we were de-platform. Bobby Kennedy was de-platformed. We were censored. We're still censored to some extent. So we're having a conference that I invite all of your listeners and viewers to come to on September 17th in Washington, D.C. to listen to people like Senator Ron Johnson, Senator Rand Paul.

Representative Paul Gosar, who are trying to change things in the government through law. But we're also having a media panel to talk about the post-COVID environment. The censorship that's not completely over. Certainly President Trump coming into office said, we're going to shut down the censorship industrial complex, but it's not over. And it's a very serious issue. We've never seen this kind of censorship.

What's happening in the United Kingdom right now is horrifying. 20 people a day are being arrested for their posts on social media. I mean, people are in jail right now that I worked with in Germany because they really spoke out during COVID. So we are not out of the woods yet. And so we cannot be complacent. Yes, some good things have happened. Thank goodness. But we are not out of the woods at all.

And people like Bobby Kennedy and Ron Johnson and the president are really still pushing very hard against the grain in Washington, D.C. on these issues. This has all been institutionalized over decades and decades. It really is unbelievable. And I, listen, I thank God for the brave voices, yours and Bobby's and Naomi and so many others, Dr. Samun Gold, so many others that have really suffered by trying to speak the truth. And again, most of us didn't think we would ever see this in our lifetimes. It's an astonishing thing. And I think a lot of good has come out of it.

And I think a lot of good is coming out of it, that we needed to have a race. reckoning. And I know that some people will repent of their misdeeds and some won't. Some will have that, you know, cavalier jaded view. Well, listen, hey, I, they really, they really don't care that people died. To them, it's just an abstraction. Eric, I met with Senator Ron Johnson right after the Fauci hearing. And what he said was most astonishing to him was how in interviewing these people at the FDA who knew there was a safety signal, but they disregard, he said, they're unrepentant. And I think that we have to deal with that, that there are plenty of people who are going to be, well, you know, like, yeah, he often has cited also Francis Collins said to him when he pointed out the data in the vaccine adverse event reporting such about the people dying. He said, you know, Senator, people die. I mean, that's what we're up against. And I do believe like you that people do want to see justice done. And until there are actually some prosecutions, people are not going to be satisfied. And it hasn't really. started yet, although I'm encouraged that three states are now looking at prosecution of Dr. Fauci.

But again, it's institutionalized. It goes so far beyond Dr. Fauci. He was the front man, if you will. And he's significant, but he's by far not the only actor here. Well, no, it's a deep cultural problem. Let's face it. This is that if you have a culture with enough people that they have no virtue and no character, they just want to get by, they don't really care about right and wrong. They just want to you know, play golf once in a while. And they don't, they don't want to have to think about these deep issues and they're willing to look the other way if they have to look the other way. I mean, I have to say I had Francis Collins speak at Socrates in the city way back.

I guess it was 2008. I think it was December of 2008. Interesting. And I remember asking him a question. You know, I was very innocently interested in the difference between, you know, what's called theistic evolution and intelligent design. And I've subsequently come out on the intelligent design side of things. But at the time I was thinking, you know, I'm trying to think this through.

And I remember asking him a question. And his answer was so sneering. You know, I was the host. And I thought, this is interesting because that betrays something. That if you're if you're kind of batting it away and saying, well, that's not real science. If that's your answer, it tells me that you're not interested in doing real science, just as when people want to shut you down for asking questions about, you know, perhaps there are these metals in the vaccines.

Perhaps that's causing autism. Can we ask the question? No, you can't ask the question. And so I think a lot of people are waking up to this kind of thing. I was really gratified the other day when Bobby Kennedy was on CNN and he, you know, essentially smack down Dana Bash. I really, I mean, we need this kind of a reckoning out there. We do.

People need to, and Brennan on CBS. There are a few of these hosts that are really, they're nasty, they're condescending. And we need people to go against them. And so to see that President Trump has people in his cabinet who are willing to do that. Scott Besant has done that on some shows. But to see Bobby doing this, whatever it was a week or so ago, it was very, very gratifying. It was very gratifying. It was very gratifying.

I think probably good for the whole country. I agree with you. And it's very clear that for many months, he was not speaking about vaccines. He was not out speaking about his agenda. And he was not talking about the objective that the Trump administration stated about autism. So it was great to see him back on a mainstream liberal platform and just basically saying to him as you're talking nonsense. These hosts don't know what they're talking about. And instead of inquiring and acknowledging, teach us.

What are you basing your views on? How did you arrive at that conclusion? They're just parroting the propaganda. And I guess Secretary Kennedy said, you know, you're just acting like a parrot. And it was gratifying because that is the reality. And so even if there's a very different political climate next year, if the House invites Kennedy to come and speak and they're hoping to sort of bash him, I think they're going to be in for a surprise, which will be kind of fun to watch, frankly. Well, this is what I find funny is that when I invited him to say, Socrates in the city two years ago.

You know, everyone, myself included, was impressed by his tremendous intelligence. What a joy to talk to somebody who has great knowledge, wide-ranging knowledge, and can just talk and think. Yeah. It's a joy. I feel the same about Scott Besant that, you know, when people know as much as they do, they are able to counter these aggressive figures in the media. And it's a long time coming.

I mean, I frankly would like to see CNN go out of business. They probably are, you know, getting there. But they have all been so guilty of this kind of thing that it's, I, again, I see something healthy happening in the culture. Now, I don't want to forget to talk about the film that you have been a part of called Duty to Disobey. What is duty to Disobey? What is that? So it's a film that we did about what happened during COVID. in the U.S. military, Eric. So the mandate in the military of the COVID shots was illegal.

They were mandating an emergency use authorization product, which by black letter law was clearly illegal. That was in 2021. And so not only did many members of the military say, we won't take this just because it's illegal. It's an illegal order. My obligation, I have a duty to disobey an illegal order, but others had very strong religious convictions because all of the COVID shots did use aborted fetal cell lines. Excuse me. Thank you for saying that. My friend John Zmirak has said that on this program many times.

That needs to be said. If you have any convictions about the wrongness of abortion, you were not able to take this shot. And I'm just fascinated that even there was tremendous complicity in the Catholic Church. really horrifying to me. So that needs to be said over and over because most people are unaware of this that all of the shots

somehow in their background had children who'd been aborted. And I think to myself, my goodness, if you knew that an African American was murdered so you could get this shot or Native Americans were wiped out so you could get this shot, would you get the shot?

You'd say, well, I think we have a problem. We have a moral problem here. but people just didn't want to talk about that. So thank you for mentioning it. Yeah, so many people in the military said, no, they would not take the shot. And literally, Eric, they were tortured. They were put in solitary. They were dismissed.

They were dishonorably discharged. And so this is a film about these heroes who stood up for themselves, and they stood up for the rule of law. They stood up for what is their right, their rights. And it's a very powerful film. We had a screening of it at the Capitol in June. and we will be making it available soon to the general public. And it's really about when something is wrong, we can't just comply and go along.

We have to stand up. And it is at some personal cost. And you see these people in the military. Some of them did take the shots and they were injured and we interview them. Many of them said no. And they were lived in their cars. They were homeless. They suffered gravely with themselves and their families.

And one of the things that's most really powerful. powerful about the film is that these people, most of them were from military families. It turns out that 80% of the U.S. military today come from military families. And they said, until there's accountability in the military for these illegal orders, I would not send my child into the military. It was a community and a career that I loved. I would not send my child. I would not let my child go there because it's corrupt to its core. They did things that they knew were illegal. They knew it was going to harm the troops. And that's unacceptable. It's. immoral. And so it's a very powerful film and I look forward to having it be available to the

public. Ready to take your investing knowledge to pro level. This is Fidelity Connects, your daily edge in the markets. Get deep insights on real-time market topics that may impact your investment portfolio. Listen to Fidelity Connects on Spotify today and power your next move tomorrow. And the website for it is duty to disobeyfilm.com. Duty to disobeyfilm.com. It, It really is something, Mary, to think about. We've all lived through this. And because I wrote a book about Dietrich Bonhofer and the Nazi era, I remember there was somebody, it was a student, a woman's student of Bonhoeffers who was recalling that era and recalling how she says it was, it was, I don't remember the exact phrase, but she says it was like a horrible odor had come into the, like something happened. And I feel, I felt that with COVID and with the, with the way people were dealing with other people.

The, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, um, the, the, um, the, the, um, the, the, um, the stuff felt creepy. It, it didn't feel like something, just something we have to. It felt actually creepy. Something is deeply wrong here. There's evil afoot, uh, you know, and I don't want to use that word lightly. And so the fact that we're kind of digging out from, under this because I can only imagine when they opened up the death camps in the summer of 45, how many people just real thinking, this can't be. Like, it's not possible that it's one thing to have a war. It's another thing to exterminate millions of people.

How can this be? And I think a lot of people, this is my thesis, it's a rolling, you know, process of processing what has happened. It's not something that happens all at once, that there's people daily waking up and thinking, my goodness, what have I gone along with? What have I? And so I'm just wondering where this all goes. I'm really hopeful that, you know, with all this stuff coming out, that there is a reckoning.

But it's like, you know, reckoning with Vietnam or it just, it's going to take decades for us to process this. It will take time. But I think you make an important parallel to Nazi Germany. You know, Himmler and others, Goebbels, they talked about the big lot. I think people can't conceive that somebody like Tony Fauci would lie about everything. Natural immunity, miscarriages, injuries, lockdowns, where the virus came from, the nature of remdesivir, you know, suppressing hydroxychloroquine, suppressing iburemectin.

It's hard for a normal person to imagine that somebody in that position of power, a physician, would lie about all of that, knowingly, truly, like knowingly letting people die unnecessarily. I mean, there's no question that that's what he did. Most normal people can't conceive of lies that horrific, but those were the lies at the heart of COVID. And so I do think that the Bonhofer era, the 30s in Germany, it's very, that was the most civilized society in the world at the time. And there are very deep parallels. We've just published a book. You might be interested in interviewing the author. It's called Never Again is now global. And it really are the parallels to what happened in the 30s and 40s in Germany.

There are serious parallels, and we can't afford to ignore them, and we're nowhere near a reckoning yet. And I agree with you, Eric, it's going to take time. But I also think that some urgent things to do are to really recognize we can't go forward with gain of function research in the way that we've been doing it. We can't be going along with the World Health Organization, given the plans that they've had for One Health. And so I think some of those things are in the works. And I'm grateful to the Trump administration for bringing in Bobby Kennedy, and I'm grateful to Bobby for his vision to see some of these urgent things

that needed to happen. Well, the whole thing also reminds me there's a scene. I remember my father used to reference the scene from the third man where Joseph Cotton is talking to Orson Wells' character and they're on the praetor, which is this huge ferris wheel in Vienna.

And he looks down and they're so high up, they see some people, they're like dots moving. He goes, he says, you know, if somebody gave you so-and-some, much money to just for one of those dots to stop moving, you know, what difference would it make? To turn human beings into abstractions like that, that's what we do in our wickedness. This is what human beings have done. And that's a big part of what Anthony Fauci and Dr. Francis Collins and others have done.

And I think they have to deal with that between them and God. But I really, I think that it's just healthy. for us to be honest about this, to talk about this. And so I'm really grateful to you, Mary Holland, for your time. If people want to find you, what's the best place for people to find you? Yeah, you should come to children's health defense.org. We have a free daily newsletter on topics related to health. We have a streaming platform every day, CHDTV. We're on social, Children's HD. And I'm at Mary Holland, NYC on X. And Mary Holland at NYC at N.

Mary Holland, NYC on X. NYC on X. Well, Mary Holland, very grateful to you. The film, of course, duty to disobeyfilm.com and children's health defense.org. Mary Holland, thank you so much. Thank you, Eric. You've often heard me talk about the Golden Triangle of Freedom, that intersection of faith, virtue, and liberty. And for that triangle to hold, we need access to the truth.

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