The Eric Metaxas Show - #19 - Officer Tatum

Episode Date: December 5, 2025

Officer Tatum joins me to talk about the truth behind Charlie Kirk’s murder, the accusations being thrown at Turning Point USA and Erica, and the confusion stirred up by Candace Owens and others. We also talk about Israel, antisemitism, and why believers must cling to truth instead of internet conspiracy theories.Sponsors: MyPillow — Save BIG with code ERIC: ⁠https://mypillow.com⁠ ten Boom Coffee— Save 10% with code ERIC: ⁠https://tenboom.coffee⁠ Christian Solidarity International: ⁠https://csi-usa.org/metaxas/⁠ Legal Help Center - Get Free Legal Help Today: ⁠https://legalhelpcenter.com⁠ Help Save Lives in Israel Today: ⁠https://savinglifeisrael.org

Officer Brandon Tatum is one of the great voices of our time, a former police officer who has a huge following because he's speaking truth. He's speaking truth against the pernicious, confusing message of Candace Owens. He's pushing back hard against her for which I applaud him. and I'm going to ask them details on that and other things in a moment. So stay tuned. Hey there, folks. I haven't mentioned it in the last few seconds. And I wanted to remind you, we are reaching out to you to partner with us in partnering with CSI, Christian Solidarity International, to free slaves in Sudan.

This is just an almost unbelievable opportunity. if you want to give a gift to someone and to say in your name, we have freed a slave, all the information, you can click on the banner, you'll see it at erikmetaxis.com. Please join us. Please join us. Ericmetaxis.com. I'll give you the phone number in a minute. And I want to throw this out. If there is anybody out there who wants to have dinner with me, spend the evening with me, I offer that. that anybody able to give a gift of $15,000 to this cause now, I will make myself available for an evening. We can spend the evening together, big group, small group, whatever, but I will give my time to that. For anybody willing to give a gift of $15,000, or you can pool together with a group of people, but I'm willing to do that. The phone number is 888-253-3522, or go to Eric Mataxis.com.

This is a tremendous opportunity. Please jump on it. God bless you. Folks, I promise you I'd be speaking to Officer Tatum. He has a first name. It's Brandon. Joy to have you, Brandon. Welcome back.

Eric, thank you so much for having me all. I want to talk to you about everything. I want to talk to you about the future of MAGA. But I have to say, you know, I don't know. It's really, it's unpleasant, frankly, to have to. to see what is going on with some of the stuff that Tucker has been saying and even worse with Candice Owens. I am just baffled sometimes, baffled. And I've talked a few times on this program about that with people who, you know, were so close to Charlie and loved Charlie about some of the insinuations.

almost accusations that she's been making. What do you make of it? It's just, it's at least baffling. I mean, whatever anybody thinks of it. It's so strange. Yeah, it's been incredibly difficult for me to listen to accusations against people that I knew that I believe love Charlie and I believe that Charlie loved dearly.

It is perplexing to me that any, would suggest that somehow Turning Point USA has something to do with Charlie's death. It don't make sense materially, which is there's no evidence of it, and it don't make sense even to presume something like that. You know, I've been around these young people since 2018. They love Charlie. They dedicate their life to Charlie and Turning Point USA. And to be honest, let's look at it financially.

Charlie is the lifeline of Turning Point USA. You think somebody want to kill him. That means that you have no job anymore. That means you have no future in direction if you work with Turning Point if Charlie Kirk is gone. So it doesn't even make sense for somebody to want something like that. And to insinuate that that is the case with no proof of evidence is just flat out wrong. And I don't know what the motive really is. Because I think there's a spiritual component to this, Eric.

It's a spiritual component where some people are devolving because of the hatred towards Israel, that everything else in life begin to spiral out of control. And they begin to be susceptible to what the devil is pushing. in their direction. And I think that they could be blinded. They could be open to a reprobate mind. Okay, stop, stop, stop. No, that is what you just said,

that is beautiful what you just said, because I think, I think you just nailed it. It is, if you, I mean, it's such a, it's just so strange the way these things work, but yes, if you have a hatred for Israel

or of a hatred for the Jews. I mean, the scripture says, you know, that those that bless Israel will be blessed. You know, it's kind of, it's like when Ted Cruz was on with Tucker and Tucker was like, well, you know, where is that? And you think, well, not only is that true, but the opposite is true. And that when you start giving in to this diabolical hatred of God's chosen people, God chose them, folks.

He didn't choose them because they're better than you or me. He chose them because God does what God's going to do. And what you just said that triggered me here into this, what I'm saying, Brandon, is that they can be given over to a reprobate mind. It's like if you want to go down that path, then it's like something happens. I guess it's the same dynamic when the Lord hardens Pharaoh's heart. there's a mystery there. There's a mystery there.

But it does seem like that's what happens. Like these people kind of go, they kind of spiral into a kind of madness. I don't know. That seems to be what you're suggesting. When you use that biblical phrase, gives them over to a reprobate mind. Right.

I don't know anybody that has come out and that has been so evil towards Israel that haven't spirited out of control. I mean, you can go down a list of names. People are no longer in Congress. People are no longer who you remember them to be. You know, when Tucker was going on Fox News, you know, I didn't kind of like his style, but I really respected him because I felt like he was speaking the truth and he would call people on the carpet when it was necessary.

He's unrecognizable today. I cannot recognize who Tucker Carlson is. I just saw him on Sean Ryan's interview. I can't watch the whole thing because I would lose half of my brain cells. But I at least have seen clips and the suggestions that he's made and the gaslighting that he does is like, is this guy always

been this way or this is a phenomenon. Like Marjorie Taylor Green is another one. Like, you know, they begin to fall off a cliff. And the thing is that I used to feel like that Jewish people and Israeli people overused the word anti-Semitic. I used to think it was

overused. But then I realized that it's not overused. people are really anti-Semitic and they just can see the people being anti-Semitic earlier than we can or maybe earlier than others can because almost everybody that they've been claimed to be an anti-Semite either have become a raging anti-Semite at this point or they, you know, flirted with it in the beginning. It's very interesting because you rarely see people who are what they call asking questions. No, nobody's really saying, I have a problem with the Israeli, um, guys of war and I don't like this, this, and this and that. That's reasonable to say, I don't like this. I think it should be done differently versus it's a genocide.

It's an apartheid state. They're occupying. I open their prison. You know what I'm saying? Like, nobody can say, well, I won't work with APEC because I don't like to work with lobby groups. They can't say that. They got to say APEC is controlling our entire government.

Donald Trump is bought and paid for by Benjamin and Yahoo. Like, it's just, it's outrageous. And it's not like people can be reasonable. I have never seen a person that's reasonable about this that have gone on to just completely hate Israel. They just go off the cliff with this stuff. And it's kind of sad in some cases. You're very perceptive. Have you thought of having your own podcasts?

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Use the code Eric. No, it's interesting because some of this stuff, I mean, when you said you couldn't watch the Sean Ryan thing, I don't watch most stuff because I can't. it's too painful to listen to some of this stuff. But I think there are folks like you and me that you look at Tucker and you try, you try to figure out what's going on exactly. And it's difficult to process because most things aren't that difficult to process, but it is difficult to process.

The same thing with Candace Owens, you think, well, what is going on there? It is just, it's uncomfortable to see somebody lose their way and become louder as they're more confused. They're louder. They seem to be able to attract more listeners and viewers because there are a lot of people out there that somehow are sucked into the deception. And, you know, you just have to say one or two true things. and then they believe everything you say, even though most of what you say is crazy. I mean, when I, you know,

if somebody really is just asking questions, if somebody really wants to find out what's exactly going on with who killed Charlie and whatever, who wouldn't want to know that? Anybody who loved him would want to know that. But then when you say things, and I think you alluded to it a few moments ago, about people that I know personally,

who I know loved Charlie, who would have taken a bullet for Charlie, to start pulling them in and saying that, I think Mikey McCoy this, and I think Rob McCoy this, and I think Erica Kirk, this, and Frank Turrick, I thought, folks, I know these people. So when you start saying,

I think they're in on it, I'm out. Like I now know that you're saying crazy, horrible, horrible stuff and you are sucking people along with you. That's really the worst part because it's one thing, you know, to say things that are wrong or to think things that are wrong or whatever. But to have a huge platform and to be sucking potentially millions of people in that kind of a direction, you know, that's bad. That is really bad. it does damage to the nation, it does damage to the culture. It has done tremendous damage to the MAGA movement, dividing people. You know, I don't know where it goes.

Do you have any sense of where this is going or what is happening? Yeah, you know, Eric, you make an incredible point. It's very bizarre, and I don't know what's going to happen here. You know, when Charlie Kirk died or was murdered, assassinated, I had this feeling of that God is going to reconcile the church and that it's going to be a great revival. And all we're going to talk about is how Charlie Kirk, you know, was a man of God and he brought so many people to Jesus Christ. And we were just going to rot that way for the next several years.

I thought that's what was going to happen. Okay, that's exactly what I thought. That's exactly what I thought. It was happening. It was happening at first. Yes. But then I think some people decided that they want to capitalize on this tragedy. because, you know, I looked at other people online saying that Charlie Kirk, it was an explosive lapel mic that killed him.

There were drones that killed them. Israel killed them. I mean, with zero evidence, my thing is this, Eric, and you know, I'm a former cop. My whole mindset is I would never not be a police officer in my mind. Everything that I evaluate is evaluated through an investigatory perspective. Like, I need to see both sides. I need to see evidence. I can't go off emotions, ever. And so when I look at Charlie Kirk and I look at the accusation that people have made against his death, I say if you got, if you have evidence, present the evidence to me, I will consider any evidentiary, something of evidentiary value. I'll consider it all. If you were to say that Israel was responsible, show me evidence. If you were to say Mikey McCoy or any of the people that turning point USA is responsible, show me more evidence than a guy freaking out. after watching his best friend get murdered in front of him. That's not evidence. That's called human behavior. That's called psychology. Like, people, it's easy to talk about what you would and wouldn't do looking at a television.

It's not easy to actually do certain things when you're, when you're, when you're, when you're, when you're, when you're, when you're fired and you watch your friend get shot in the neck and blood gushing out right in front of your face. The horror of something like that for a person that's not, there's never been to combat. or has never even seen anybody die before is, it's unimaginable. So if you're going to make a strong accusation that somebody's implicit or involved in something, if somebody's stealing a video footage from the cameras, which I knew Terrell very well, Tara was a great guy.

He wouldn't hurt a fly. And to make these accusations and now people are getting dead threats, I just find it to be incredibly bizarre and incredibly damaging the Charlie Kirk's legacy. because now look at it, Eric, all people are talking about is conspiracies around his death. Nobody's talking about revival anymore. Nobody's really talking about his perspective on Christianity and the fact that he loved Israel. Now they're framing it as he was a Catholic and that he, you know, decide to do some other stuff. And when I say Catholic, I mean that he was a Protestant and people were just trying to divulge his theology and process down to saying that he was something that he wasn't.

Not saying to being a Catholic has anything wrong with that. It's just that I don't believe that's what Charlie was doing. And people try to do that to divert from what he actually have said on campus a thousand times. And I think it's wrong.

What you just said is the clearest example of, you know, if somebody says, you know, what do you think about all those conspiracy of the years and what do you think about it? I would say the fact that it has so dramatically

and effectively changed the conversation from people coming to faith in Jesus Christ into anything else, that tells me the spiritual nature of what we're talking about. Because what could be more wonderful than people talking about millions coming to faith in Jesus as a result of this tragedy and that was happening? And so for the channel to be changed to be talking about all this crazy stuff, I smell Satan all over this. That's what it smells like.

And when I have talked to people, even people that I know who have said crazy things that they, did you hear? Candace said this and she said this. And I thought, how can you get sucked in to this madness? I mean, it really reveals in a way how susceptible people are.

Because, you know, scripture talks about, you know, even the elect would be deceived. This idea that there are people that, you know, you just wouldn't expect it. And then suddenly they're repeating some crazy thing that they heard on the internet. And what about this? And what about this? And you think, oh, my goodness. Like, really?

You're buying that stuff? Eric, I experience this every day. And I'm sure you do. It's, it blows my mind. that I get on my channel as a former police officer who've investigated crimes, and I get on my channel and I lay out compelling evidence as to why Tyler Robinson, I believe, is the responsible person for killing Charlie Kirk. At least he should get arrested with probable cause.

I read the affidavit that they submitted the court to arrest him. I read through all the evidence that they claim to have, and I know how these processes work. You can't just make a claim and submit it to the court with no evidence. They would throw the case out. So if you are making a claim that his parents identified him on surveillance footage, and he made a confession to his parents, I mean, the video recording, DNA evidence on the trigger, DNA evidence on the ammunition, spent round casing in the 30 I6 weapon, autopsy that was done.

The bullet was recovered. And I'm telling you people are going to be, it's going to be shocking in them, some of them, because they've been believing a lot of lies online, that the bullet in the gun match. And so when all of these things that have clearly you're represented in its fullness to the best of the ability of the investigators,

I don't know how people don't believe that at least Tyler Robinson was the one that shot Charlie Kirk. Now, if you want to think there's multiple people involved, it's okay to have that thought process. But when I get online and I just lay it out based on facts, I read the probable cost statement to my audience. People are, how do you not believe? You don't really care about Charlie.

You're not asking enough questions. I'm like, you guys don't realize that at some point this is going to go to trial. And at some point, the evidence is going to be presented. Mommy and Daddy of the killer is going to be on a witness stand. the trans boyfriend is going to be on a witness stand. I doubt that they'll have Tyler Robinson up there because they'll lose the entire case if they try to put him on the stand.

But they're going to try to make him look like a normal person so they can not get the death penalty. They're not coming out to defend Tyler Robinson. His defense team is not defending him. They're trying to defend him from the death penalty. But you say that in the audience, a lot of people, not everybody, but they eat you alive as if you're,

you hated Charlie. And I'll say this too. I knew Charlie very well. I loved Charlie. The first time my wife ever saw me cry was when Charlie, when I found out he died while I was live on my podcast. It hurt me because I was at his wedding.

I knew Erica. I had never met his children, but I knew he had children. I'm a father. When I saw the fact that they reported Charlie Kirk is dead, he was just 30-some years old, what 31 years old?

He's a young man. He didn't, deserve what happened to him in the way it happened. So it made me incredibly upset and emotional. There's no way in the world I wouldn't want justice for Charlie Kirk. There's no way in the world that Erica, his wife, the one he loved, that he married, that he had children with, that he saw every day of the week, that she wouldn't want justice for him. And that Mikey McCoy, who was his best friend, I never seen Charlie without Mikey in the last like, six years. I'm telling you, he was dear to Charlie's heart. You're telling me, these people

don't want justice, but other people who really didn't even know Charlie, some of them weren't really close to Charlie, some of them don't even follow Charlie on social media. And they want what's best for Charlie, but the people closest to him don't. His pastor who married Charlie, I was at the wedding. The pastor who married, Pastor McCoy married Charlie and his wife, Erica. He was, Charlie would always call him my pastor. I've been around Charlie and Rob McCoy before. I've seen him. I've done events.

I've spoken at Rob McCoy's church. You know, it's, but the people rather believe a lie. Like somebody said this online, Eric. They said, it's interesting that you have to show no evidence for a lie, but people demand all kinds of evidence for the truth. Why is that? I can get on here and tell a lie right now, and nobody would even question me.

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Legal Help Center helping you know your rights and what your case is really worth. Something is happening, Brandon, and you and I, we've seen this, right? Because in 2020, so many of us woke up that we had been sleeping or we had been blind to stuff. And the whole world was changed. We had a stolen election. We had people lying to us about vaccines and COVID. I think a lot of people appropriately said, you know what? I don't know what to believe anymore.

That's healthy at some point. But then it goes over into I'm going to believe every crazy thing. And I have seen this among people that I know, you know, because you can go wrong in both directions. I mean, there are some people stupid enough to believe the Warren Commission's report. There are people dumb enough to think that Oswald killed JFK, to think there's no such thing as a deep state. Biden was fairly elected. America chose Joe Biden. There was no fraud in the election.

The vaccine is a good thing. There are people that are going to believe all of that garbage, which is from the pit of hell. But then on the other hand, you get people that they, it's not enough to say we were lied to about the vaccine and about the election and about this and about this. Now I believe also we never landed on the moon. Oh, also the earth is flat. Oh, yeah, I saw some videos. Oh, yeah. I believe it. And I believe that, you know, Hillary Clinton is a lizard person or she was hanged at Guantanamo Bay three years ago. And Joe Biden is he had a body double. And look at the, look at the earlobes. Look, it's not. I mean, there are people that have gone over on the other side. And they are just. they'll believe any lunatic theory. And those are the people that are gobbling up this manure that Candace Owens is thrown out there. And what I don't understand is what is going on with her is very strange. I mean, I just don't know.

I don't know anybody like that who just would be kind of spinning stuff like that. And, you know, because I have no explanation to understand what's actually going on there and how it's going to play out. You know. Yeah. Yeah, I know Candace very well. You know, I texted the other day when she had made the claim that the French government was applied to kill her. Because, you know, that's a different scenario. You know, like her and I and we both are open about this that we disagree on many of these points.

But if somebody's going to try to assassinate you, you know, she's still like family to me. So I reached out to her. And she said she had compelling evidence. She said she reported it to the government and they know about it and they legitimized it. Now, obviously, I haven't seen the proof of that, but it's either going to be real or it's not. And, you know, that's one thing that I want to talk to her about because I've always known Candace to be very stubborn. And I've always known her to be a person who was just like me, that she would get to the bottom of anything because she'll dig as deep as she need to go to find the truth. some of the things that are going on with Charlie Kirk and Israel is

it's something I don't understand, but I have never talked to about it. So I don't think I can name, claim exactly what's going on. But I feel like that it's going to come a point in time where I'm going to sit down. And she said she was open to it. I'm just wondering, like, what information do you have that I'm missing here? Like, because, you know, Eric, there's also weird things that, I think something she says weird,

but it's also weird things coming from the other side because if I died and was murdered and I'm not trying to throw shade at anybody, if somebody was out in the world saying all of these things about me post-mortem, which means that I believe this or my faith was really this, or all of my friends,

were responsible for my death. My wife would probably go to jail. I'm just, I like, my wife would not be, my wife would be cuss, you know, we're Christians and we try to be, do the best you can't. My wife would throw that Bible to the side and she would probably be cussing

and threatening people online. If somebody was doing that much damage to my legacy. Yes. And the fact that, and I spoke to Erica not too long ago, and I love her, And I don't ask her questions about this because it's got to be crazy for her.

And she lost the love of her life, man. I mean, if I lost my wife, I'd be devastated. I don't even know if I could be on doing my podcast. I would have to take some time off. I love my wife. I couldn't live without my wife. You know, of course I could because God wouldn't do that to me if I couldn't. But like, I wouldn't want to live without my wife.

I wouldn't want to not see her every day. Like, I would be devastated. What am I telling my kids? I mean, see, but this is the worst part of it. We're out of time. The worst part of it is important. implicating Erica in this. That just rips my heart out. Yeah, it does. And I just pray the Lord would sort this out. And God bless Candice, that she would just come to her senses and be more careful

about what she says. The damage that she's done, it's just, it's awful, but it's all in the Lord's hands. I got to tell you, Brennan, I'm just love having you on. We'll have you back soon. Just a joy to know you're out there. Thank you for what you're doing. God bless you. God bless you, Eric. Thank you so much for having me, man. This Christmas, as we celebrate the Super Centennial coming up, Super Centennial 250th, there's no way, better no way to support it than by supporting my friend, an American hero, Mike Lindell. He's one of the main sponsors on this program. He's the man behind Mike Pillow.

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