The Eric Metaxas Show - #20 - Greg Laurie

Episode Date: December 5, 2025

Eric Metaxas welcomes Pastor Greg Laurie to talk about the viral moment when President Trump told a wedding crowd that Eric is the one who will get him into heaven and what that really means. The conversation turns to the powerful evangelistic crusade Greg just held at UVU in Utah, at the very place where Charlie Kirk was murdered, and how thousands responded to the gospel. Eric and Greg also address the shocking rise of antisemitism, the modern miracle of Israel, and why this moment feels like the last days. Along the way they talk about LDS friends in Utah, revival, bold evangelism, and what courage looks like for believers right now.Sponsors:MyPillow — Save BIG with code ERIC: https://www.mypillow.com/ten Boom Coffee— Save 10% with code ERIC: https://tenboom.coffee/Christian Solidarity International: https://csi-usa.org/metaxas/Legal Help Center - Get Free Legal Help Today: https://www.legalhelpcenter.com/Help Save Lives in Israel Today: https://www.savinglifeisrael.org/

I've been friends with pastor and evangelist Greg Lorry for quite some time. I really love him. He's delightful. He's hilarious. But he's a very powerful evangelist. He's devoted his whole life to bringing people to faith in Jesus. There's a lot to say. But today I want to talk about he just was at the very place in Utah, the University of Utah,

where our friend Charlie Kirk was murdered. And he was there to bring the gospel of Jesus Christ to the students there and others. It was a very brave thing to do. It just happened. It was very successful. I want to talk to him about that. And I will talk to him about that in a few seconds. So stay tuned for my conversation with Pastor Greg Lorry.

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Please jump on it. God bless you. Okay, folks, if you've listened to me for years, you know that I'm friends with Greg Lurie. And you also know that's not easy. He's tough. He's a tough customer. He's very, very serious.

He doesn't like to joke around. it's painful being around those kind of people because I'm naturally affable, friendly, and yet God gives me the grace to be friends with such as Pastor Greg, Lori. Greg, welcome back. Eric, could be with you again? I was thinking when we first met, I think you had been your podcast, and I did a little research on you. Oh, he's a Harvard graduate.

I'm a Harvard graduate, Harbor High School. And I thought this guy's going to be such an intellectual. he's going to ask me questions. I don't know the answers do. You are an intellectual, but you may be the craziest intellectual I've ever met. And when you started joking at the, oh, wait, he's insane like I am. And I think that's how we connect apart from our faith, of course. We became instant lunatic friends because, yes, I remember that's when we were still doing the show in the Empire State Building. Of course, that's been torn down for a NASCAR racetrack, thanks to Donald Trump did that. But no, we were in the Empire State Building, and I remember meeting you. And I think

some people think because, well, it's not just that I went to Yale, really, it's because I wrote the Bonhoeffer book. People think, oh, Eric must be very, very serious because I read that book, and it's very serious and sad. And then, you know, you meet me and you realize, no, he's a goofball. And I am a goofball. But the joy of meeting another goofball of somebody who can. can be deadly serious about the most important things like our faith in Jesus, but who can also, you know, flip around to laugh and whatever. And I think just before we came on the air, you know, I was just saying, like, oh, I'm so happy to see you because it's been a while since you've been on. And I said, you know, you just make me feel or something. And then you said to

me, ladies and gentlemen, pastor evangelist, great glory, said to me that I, that I, make him feel like a natural woman. He actually said that. And then he asked me, is that appropriate to say to another? Of course it's not appropriate. That's why it's so funny. It's so beautiful because we tease each other. And it's a joy, you know, to have friends that we can tease.

That's to me, you know, the ultimate in friendship. People don't know that's a song for many years ago by Carol King. So we have to give some context to it. Oh, you know what? You're right. Most people wouldn't, wouldn't even know that that's a Carol King song. Wow, yeah. And so just to be clear, because we have some literal, you know,

we have some literalists who listen to this program and they're trying to catch me and they're going to say, Eric, and so I want to be clear to those folks, no, Greg didn't actually mean that I make him feel like an actual woman. He was, that was joking. And I just want to be very, very clear that I don't make anybody feel like an actual woman. No, you don't. Not just great.

But anybody. Anybody. Nobody. No. So look, you and I, we've got a lot of, we, there's so much I want to talk about. I said, you know, I trick people by being serious in the introduction and saying that I want to talk to you about being at the University of Utah recently where our friend Charlie was murdered and stuff. So I want to talk about that because that's very beautiful, powerful. but should we get some silly stuff out of the way first before we get to do that's so serious.

You're in charge here, Eric. Can I ask you a question? I believe you can. I believe you just did there, right there. So there's a new story where you were at Mar-a-Lago with the president, and they captured it actually on video. And he said something to you about, this guy's going to help me get into heaven. Can you tell me what happened? What prompted that conversation?

What he said to you? and what you said in response. Well, first of all, with AI, you don't know what's real and what's not real. And by the way, if you look carefully at his earlobes in that video, you realize that's a body double. That was not President Trump. That was a body double. And it's the same body double that Biden used for the four years that he was in the presidency. It's an amazing guy.

He's just good at being a body double. So it was not really, it was not really Trump, but close enough. You know, close enough. No, I think this, yeah, this really happened. I've commented on the, I've commented on this on the program. But it was one of those crazy things. I'm at a friend's wedding. It's at Mar-a-Lago, which is, you know, kind of crazy.

I don't go to Mar-a-Lago often. It was a big deal. And son of a gun, here comes the president of the United States to kind of crash the wedding, which of course is classic Donald Trump. You know, he's there having a good time and he's like, oh, there's a wedding. I will, you know, he knows what he's doing. He's going to bless everybody by showing up.

Everybody's going to say, the president was at the way. You know, wow, what a, what the ultimate blessing to have the president of the United States show up at your wedding, you know, to give his blessing just by showing up and he's so friendly and he's, you know, saying to the good looking couple, how good looking they are. And, you know, he's just, he's a schmoozer in the best sense. And you and I have both met him, but we've had some experiences with him.

Not all of what you're positive, by the way. I will never forget right before the 2018 midterms. You and I were in the White House for the Faith Advisory Council thing. Do you remember that? I don't know if you remember that. We better not talk about it. But it was actually nothing terrible. But it was just funny because when you get to see people and you know, you never know what you're going to get.

And I think I said something to him like, I probably said something like, you know, Mr. He didn't know me then. This is 2018. He got to know me after the 2020 election when I stuck my neck out and threw my career, you know, in the toilet by saying that the election was stolen. And of course, we now know it was the safest, most secure election in the history of all elections. Folks, we know this now. It's been proven.

You just have to listen to the, I think James Comey, you know, people like that. No, but seriously, I remember going up to him and saying, you know, Mr. President, I just want you to know how many people are praying for you or something like that. And he said something like, yeah, but we got to win the midterms. And he walked away. Like, it was like, it was so like, okay, it was just one of those. And I know you've had moments like that too. It's, it's, I find it like, in retrospect, it's hilarious.

But you and I, we've known each other for some time in many contexts. And you're asking me about what happened at Marilago. And what happened was so he walks in. And I happened to be where near the door where he's coming in. I didn't know that he would be walking through the door when he did. So I have to see, you know, God's hand in it. And so he sees me. and then says something very surprising.

I mean, to me, he says, you know, here's the guy that's going to get me into heaven. He's saying to the groom, my friend Mike Wilson, you know, you think, what? What do you mean? Like, I have no idea how to unpack that. I guess it's flattering because it means that he keeps saying that he's watched my show and that obviously I'm talking about Jesus and stuff. So ostensibly, he's enjoyed that. I think he likes my sense of humor or something like that.

But so he sort of, he says this. And if that's not weird and then I said to him, well, Mr. President, I would actually like to talk to you about how it is that one in fact gets into heaven, you know, and but not now. It would be rude because it was very confusing, noisy moment. It was not, it wouldn't have been possible, frankly, for me to do it anyway. But you know, you get all the religious folks sniping on social media.

There's no bad time to share the gospel, Eric. You know, you should have, you know, don't trust the Holy Spirit too much, Eric. You know, it's on you. Anyway, it was so crazy. And then little did I know that somebody captures this and it just goes crazy viral. And People Magazine wrote an article about it. All these people. I think there was 25 articles written about it.

because I get the Google alerts if my name is in a news article. It's like there's another one, another one, the Times of India, all of this stuff. And some of them are just, you know, kind of nasty sniping about, you know. Actually, some of them, you laugh, I think, at this. They referred to me as maga preacher. Oh, my. You know, like, I'm not even a, I'm not even ordained, but according to them, I'm a maga preacher. So, but the whole thing, it was just kind of delightful and fun.

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world, increase their harvests by 60%, improving both the quality of their beans and the quality of their lives. So every cup you pour becomes part of a legacy, one that stands for courage, kindness, and redemption. Visit 10boomcoffee.com. That's 10 boomcoffee.com. Taste the goodness that changes lives. Use the code Eric and say 10%. 10 boomcoffee.com. Use the code Eric. Well, the fact that he connects you to the Christian faith and would make the fact that he talks all the time about heaven and was recently talking about it in Air Force One, he brings it up all the time. And people say, well, why doesn't someone share the gospel with President Trump? Trust me, people. The gospel has been shared with President Trump. But he talks about it. He's interested in it. I think we all need to just pray for him. But know that, you know, I know one guy like Mike Johnson, you know Mike, Speaker of the House,

very strong Christian. He has had extensive conversations with the president. And specifically, after the assassination attempt on the president in Pennsylvania, that really shook Trump. And Mike was able to really, really talk to him and pray with him. So he's heard the gospel. We need to just pray that it takes complete root in his heart. and thank God that you have a man in that position who is thinking about God and wants to go to heaven.

And I think deep down really wants a relationship with the Lord and I think is beginning to have one. Well, I agree. And it is, but it's so funny because in that moment, I didn't, in the moment, I think, you know, the mind plays tricks because it's the president and you don't, I didn't even remember 10 minutes later that he had said that to me. I thought, what did he say?

Who's, who's, what did he say? Because all I remembered that was that I said, I want to talk to you about getting into heaven, Mr. President. You know, I remembered that I said that. But I didn't remember that he said that I was, you know, the guy that's going to get. I didn't even remember that. But then the next day, the video was out and I get to watch it. And in watching the video, I saw the joy on his face.

Like, you could see that he was having fun. And in the moment, I didn't pick up on that because, again, it's sort of the, you know, the haze of, you know, it's noisy. It's a wedding. The president shows up. But to look at the video and to see the delight on his face of teasing me and talking to my friend and his wife, his new wife and stuff. So it's joyful to see that side of the president that he has, there's joy. And he clearly had joy in saying that, whatever he meant by that. I hope I get to have that conversation with him. But, you know, you and I care about evangelism, and that's really what I wanted to have you wanted to talk about, is you just very recently were at the University of Utah. Is that the actual name of the university? Am I getting that right? Yeah, UVU, yes. UVU, yeah. Yeah, so it's the place where our friend was murdered. And so this is a big deal.

So, Greg, just tell us what happened. Tell us how did you get that idea? I mean, it's so glorious that you were able to do that. You know, I don't use the word miracle a lot, but I think of it almost says the Utah miracle. Because here is a place, UVU, where the worst imaginable tragedy took place where Charlie Kirk, a young man in the prime of his life,

so gifted, so talented, was assassinated. And so we had been talking with pastors in Utah already about a crusade in the future, and we had one tentatively scheduled for 2027. But after Charlie was murdered, we reached out to them and said, is there anything we can do? They said, yes, come sooner. So we did something, this is where the miracle part comes in. We did something we had never done before. we put a crusade together in six weeks. Normally it takes six months to a year. Six weeks, we said we'll be there. We actually booked the arena at UVU. In fact, the night before I went to the actual site where Charlie was killed, and it's very sad and it's very sobering.

But I thought, why don't we go to this place where an act of darkness took place and shine the radiant light of the gospel? We know that Charlie's favorite verse was Romans 820. which says we know that all things work together for good to those that love God. And I think that what happened to Charlie is a tragedy that I can't explain. I don't know why it happened. I don't know why God allowed it. So when I don't know the answer to the white question, I pivot to the what question, as in what can I do?

And I thought, let's tell people how they can come into a relationship with God like Charlie had so they can have the hope that Charlie has and is experiencing now in God's presence. of going to heaven. So we got there and understand that 80% of the county we're in is LDS, Latter-day Saints, Mormon. And yet I was welcome with open arms by the Mormon Church. In fact, I went the day before to the headquarters of the Mormon Church. I spent a couple of hours with two of their elders. I even met their new president in the hallway. I told them all. What I'm they are to do. I said, I am here to proclaim the gospel. They understand the theological divide between the LDS Church and evangelical Christianity, but yet they welcomed me. So I got

up and I spoke. And when it was all said and done, we had around 10,000, about 9,000 people in the arena. We filled it. We had another 10,000 in overflow venues around Utah watching it. And when it was all said and done, we had 1,500 people walk forward. to make a profession of faith to follow Christ, and we put it online, and another 200,000 people watched it, and another 1,000 people made a profession of faith to follow Christ. So all put together, 2,500 people came to Christ.

So look, this wouldn't have happened if it were not for the tragedy of what took place with Charlie. I'm not saying Charlie died so this can happen. I'm saying the worst tragedy happened, Charlie died. he was killed. But yet, despite this tragedy, God intervened, and a miracle took place. And 2,500 people are in God's kingdom. And, you know, Jesus said there's rejoicing in the presence of the angels over every single

sinner that comes to Christ. So Charlie's in heaven. We're on earth. 2,500 people prayed a prayer, maybe more that we don't even know about. If they're shouting in heaven, I'm sure Charlie heard it. And I would even think, since we know more in heaven than we know on earth, that he would know there was cause and effect between this horrible tragedy and what God just did, despite it, when people believed in Jesus.

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Let the professionals at Legal Help Center handle this for you. Legal Help Center helping you know your rights and what your case is really worth. Well, I mean, you've been doing evangelism like this for a long time. It's amazing to me, you know, to think that what was the film, Jesus Revolution that came out. Was it last year? No, probably three years ago now. Yeah, wow.

Well, that really tells the story of your life, of your coming to faith. And you have dedicated yourself to bringing people across the goal line into the kingdom by faith to believe in Jesus. And you've been doing this. I had the privilege of being with you in Anaheim Stadium a number of years ago when you had your crusade there and to think that you would go to the university um of Utah you know when you talk about LDS you talk about there there there are there a lot of people in that world that you know they have questions they have at the idea that you would be allowed to go there

and to in the most unadulterated way present the good news of Jesus Christ and make an invitation and to have all these people say, yes, I want that. I mean, I don't think there's any way around it, Greg, that this is part of God's plan in allowing Charlie to be taken so young. There's a lot more. You keep hearing over and over and over again of people coming to faith

or deepening their faith or something. And, you know, we don't get to choose what happens. There's evil in the world. But to see, to have the privilege to see something beautiful, come out of something so awful as the murder of our friend. You know, it's just, it is beautiful. And I have to say that I'm just, I'm grateful for your willingness to do that because that's not easy to go to a place like that that's associated with darkness.

But that really brings me to the point that this is redemption, folks. Think about it. Think about it. To go in there and say, okay, okay, devil, you know, you, uh, you did this this this evil thing but um you know the devil has done all kinds of evil things and and god can turn them and can redeem and when we think that all of these folks that have come to faith in jesus uh because you were willing to go to the very place where this happened there's no way around it that's beautiful it's amazing you know i was thinking of something else

i knew you've spoken out a lot about the rise of anti-semitism and we both to have a deep love for the Jewish people and for the state of Israel. And I'm thinking one of the worst tragedies in human history is the Holocaust. Six million Jewish men, women, and children were put to death. The only thing that, you know, I don't want to say it equals it, but a modern version of it is October 7th when over 1,200 Israeli, men, women, and children were brutally murdered by Hamas. But, and the heels of the Holocaust, the modern state of Israel was born.

born, which I believe is a modern day miracle. Some would contest that. Some would disagree with that. They don't even think that that's a fulfillment of prophecy, but I know you and I see that differently. So my point is simply this. You know, God can work despite a tragedy, and nothing was more tragic than the Holocaust,

but yet almost as if on Q, and I believe they were on Q, Jews from around the world began to return to their homeland, and on May 14th, 1948, a modern day miracle. took place. The modern state of Israel was born. And so I think I appreciate your voice on this topic. I know you talk about it a lot. I do as well. And, you know, we believe that God is not broken his covenant or his promises to the Jews. And Israel is clearly their homeland. And they're the indigenous people of the land, not colonizers that some would say. And we pray that they will come to Christ. and I've seen, I think more and more Jews are beginning to realize that their best friend is the evangelical Christian.

And we're seeing wonderful stories take place of them coming to understand that Jesus can be their Messiah. I just want to throw that in there. Well, you know, I have to say, I never dreamt, never dreamt that we would see the rise of anti-Semitism in my lifetime. I simply did not. obviously I wrote the book about Dietrich Bonhoeffer. And I thought, you know, everybody knows that anti-Semitism is wicked. It's just evil. So to see the rise of it.

And to see, it's funny, you mentioned my encounter with President Trump recently. When we posted that, I posted something about that on Instagram. And it went crazy on Instagram. But my followers on Instagram did not go up. up. And I asked my team, I thought, this is bizarre because we have this post that's going so viral. Anytime I have a post that does well, you get an addition of followers. And my team said, because you have posted, you know, pro-Israel or pro-Jewish stuff, whatever, there's all kinds of people that don't like that. Yeah. And I thought, wow. And then the same thing happens on X. I post on X.

and a lot of the responses are, you know, it is just the vilest anti-Semitism. And it's hard to believe that it exists. It is. Or that people who are, they think of themselves of Christians that they're this theologically confused and they don't buy what you just said, which I've said a million times, that, yes, the Holocaust, the horror of the Holocaust led to the establishment of the state of Israel and how beautiful, how wonderful, how redemptive. and, you know, and there are people they don't buy that at all.

They just think, man, who cares? You know, it's so, so we're living in really strange times to see anti-Semitism in our time and to see people like, I mean, I, my heart broke that Tucker Carlson, whom I've really admired, would have on somebody as just shockingly, openly, viciously, anti-Semitic, and racist and misogynist as Nick Fuentes. I thought, what is that, what kind of a world do we live in that these things are happening? So it is a strange moment. And I feel I feel honored that I get to stand in this moment and say,

hey, ladies and gentlemen, everything that I know says that we're supposed to love the Jews. we're supposed to, you know, pray for Israel, for the peace of Jerusalem. We're supposed to understand the Jewishness of Jesus, the Jewishness of the early church. And there's some people that, you know, in kind of an unhinged way, they are really pretty viciously speaking against it. It's an amazing moment, really. Hi, I'm Chris Himes, producer of the Eric Metaxa show. We're outside the Tiberius station of McGahn-Divide-Adome. Israel's National Security Medical Service.

They dispatch every ambulance in the country, take thousands of emergency calls every day, and they also collect process and distribute the nation's blood supply for civilians and the IDF. Since October 7th, McGen-Devide-Adome has lost 40 of their people, and 17 ambulances have been destroyed or disabled. And yes, sometimes medics and ambulances are intentionally targeted. But here's what's incredible.

90% of their 30,500 EMTs, paramedics, and first responders are volunteers. They keep showing up, yet they need the basics, advantages, blood reserves, medical supplies, ambulances, and training. If you have a heart for Israel, please give whatever you can today. Every dollar matters. Go to saving life, Israel.org, and support this organization. Thank you so much. I think it's a sign of the times, Eric, and I believe we're in the last days.

I believe Christ could come back at any time. And there's an interesting passage in the book of Revelation that says, has come down to you, and he knows that his time is short. You know, believe it or not, Satan is quite orthodox in many of his beliefs. And by that I mean, the Bible says the demons believe in Trumbull. If we were to interview Lucifer himself, which I wouldn't want to do, but if we were to say Lucifer, do you believe the Bible is the word of God? He would say, yes, I hate every word of it. Do you believe that Jesus is the son of God? Again, he would have to say, yes, he even said as much during the temptation of the wilderness when he said to Jesus,

since you are the son of God, multiple times. And then finally, if we were to say Satan, you believe Jesus is coming back, you would say yes, and I'm going to wreak as much havoc as I can until he returns. He knows his time is short. So we shouldn't be surprised when we see the rise of evil, anti-Semitism, this vitriol and this hate. toward not just Jewish people, but toward Christians as well, and the murder of our friend Charlie Kirk. But what should we do? Should we retreat to a foxhole? No, we should be bold. And the best weapon we have in our arsenal, Eric, and you know this is a Maga preacher. The best weapon we have, that was a joke. Okay. So you are, you are, though, but in the best way, the best weapon we have in our

arsenal is the gospel of Jesus Christ, and we need to proclaim it boldly without embarrassment, and maybe with the boldness like we've never had before in the days in which we're living. Well, and I see that happening. That's what's so amazing that the, you know, it was Turtullian, around 200 AD, I guess, said the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church. You know, you don't want, nobody wanted Jesus to be crucified. Nobody wanted Stephen to be stoned. Nobody wants, but we know that God will use these horrible things. And what happened with our friend Charlie, which is so horrible.

But clearly, people are coming to faith. People who ordinarily wouldn't take it seriously. Elon Musk, Jesse Waters from Fox News. It seems like every other day I see somebody else saying, you know what, yeah, I'm in. I'm interested in this. I wasn't before. It's amazing. And, you know, the ultimate tragedy of all time was the death, the murder, the execution of Jesus Christ.

But from that came the salvation of the world. And going back to Stephen, who you mentioned for a moment, after Stephen was martyred, of course, they laid their cloaks before Saul of Tarsus, who came to faith on the Damascus Road. I think there's definite cause and effect between his conversion and the testimony of Stephen. But we also read that after Stephen was put to death, that the gospel began to spread. You see, prior to that, the church had sort of missed the memo of Jesus when he said, gone to all the world, preach the gospel. They were kind of hanging out in Jerusalem, sort of having a holy huddle, but after Stephen was martyred, they spread out rapidly.

And so God used that horrible event of the first martyrdom of the church as young man named Stephen, who frankly Charlie reminds us of him, another young man who spoke about his faith only moments before the assassin killed him. But now more people are hearing Charlie's message and ever heard it. More people are buying Bibles than they've ever bought them before. More young people are coming back to church. Gen Z and specifically young men, this is a new thing that's happening. And it's sort of like Charlie's death poured rocket fuel on a pre-existing revival fire. So I see it dramatically spreading. And so God, I heard Erica say in her interview with Jesse Waters, so you mentioned, you know,

that she believes if Charlie was given the choice to come back from heaven, he would say no because of all the wonderful things that God has done despite this. But yet, you know, having said that, we need to remember this is a woman who has lost her husband. I saw her not long ago, and she said, I wish we could have all that God is doing, and I could have Charlie back. And I understood that because 16 years ago, our son Christopher was killed in an automobile accident, and we really miss them. The holidays are especially difficult. But I said to Kathy afterwards, because God was doing so many amazing things in our life

and through our ministry after Christopher was called home unexpectedly to happen. I said, I wish we could have all of this and him too. Well, one day, we're going to have it all. We're going to be reunited with our loved ones. That's the amazing, amazing thing. That's the amazing thing. That's the beautiful thing. And the Lord wants us. He wants to build our faith so that we know that.

That's not just a nice idea that that is true. And we know that's true. Before I let you go, I just have to say, you know, Greg, when I was at the memorial for Charlie, you know, whatever it was, a week or ten days after his death in Phoenix, when Erica Kirk said that she forgave the murderer, I said that that is the cleave. the murderer. I said that is the clearest example of Christian faith. If you want to solve for X, you just have no confusion, you just want to know

what is it all about? That is it right there. So powerful. And I said, that's like dropping a hand grenade into the bowels of hell. You have just done damage to the dark kingdom by forgiving the murderer of your husband. And I honestly believe that we are in a glory.

glorious, glorious moment. And we've only seen the beginning of it. There is much, much more to come. And I just look forward to, you know, participating with you, however the Lord will use us in this. It's beautiful. I look forward to seeing you in the new year, the Supercentennial. You know that it's called that. I like that. I'm in. The Supercentennial. Next year is America's Supercentennial. And I look forward to. of seeing you next year. I have a book coming out about the American Revolution, which I am so excited. Oh my goodness. I didn't know that. Yeah, it's a big book. It'll be as big as the Bonhofer book because it is, it's the whole story.

Oh, we need it. The whole. No, yeah, there isn't really anything quite like that. You know, there's millions of books on the Revolution and I've read most of them at this point. But to really tell that story and also to see God's hand in it, which is frankly unavoidable. There's just no way around it. It's so, so beautiful.

So that'll come out next year and I'll be traveling around and speaking. Well, I want to have you come and I'd like to have you on my podcast. I'd love to talk about that and have you out at our church. Let's dive in deep into that. Let me be blunt. Let me be blunt. I don't care. Who knows it?

You can't afford me not happening. Okay? All right. I don't care what donors you have. No. The answer is I'll pray about it. No, I would, you know, I just love any. excuse to hang out with you. So I assume the Lord will put that together. But it's exciting. These are all

exciting things. Thank you, my friend, for coming on. Thanks, sir. And for everything you're doing. God bless you and Kathy and your family. Thank you. Bye. Thank you. Hey there, folks. As hard as it may be for us to believe, especially for in America, there are people in other parts of the world who have literally been enslaved because of their faith in Jesus Christ. some of them for decades. Hundreds of thousands of them have been persecuted and enslaved in the Sudan. Together, right now, we can literally buy their freedom and save the lives of some precious brothers and sisters, give them the joy and hope we celebrate so freely. For only $250, you can provide life-saving aid this Christmas. You can buy a believer's freedom and provide them with

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