The Eric Metaxas Show - #203 - Ken Fish

Episode Date: September 17, 2026

Today On The Eric Metaxas Show, Eric shares the possible answer to a mystery that has puzzled him for months. Eric and Suzanne independently witnessed nearly the same startling sight on the same day: a hawk holding a dove in its talons, once in Connecticut and once in Manhattan.After returning from Greece and rereading Homer’s Odyssey, Eric discovered a strikingly similar bird sign in the ancient story, where it is interpreted as a warning that Odysseus is returning and justice is coming. Ken Fish joins Eric to discuss whether experiences like this can be interpreted as signs from God, how Christians should approach them carefully, and what divine justice means in the present moment.They also discuss current questions about political accountability before Ken previews the upcoming Orbis Ministries Luminosity conference in Nashville.⭐ ORDER NOW:Revolution: The Birth of the Greatest Nation in the History of the World📕: https://a.co/d/0ir3NlapTODAY'S SPONSORS:🪙 Grace Precious Metals: https://www.metaxasmetals.com/🛏️ MyPillow — Save BIG with code ERIC: https://www.mypillow.com/☀️ Honest, fast, and free Medicare plan guidance: https://askchapter.com/metaxas/0:00 The Hawk And Dove Mystery0:45 Suzanne Saw The Same Thing2:12 Eric Thinks He Found The Meaning3:31 The Hawk And Dove In Homer5:15 Why Eric Thinks It Means Justice Is Coming7:32 Ken Fish Responds8:32 Trump And The Odysseus Parallel11:07 Can God Speak Through Signs?15:07 Eric Revisits The Mystery19:05 How Christians Should Interpret Signs26:04 Is America Entering A Time Of Reckoning?28:18 Brennan, Russia And Political Accountability34:40 Ken Fish On The Luminosity Conference- - -LIKE AND SUBSCRIBE: https://www.youtube.com/@ericmetaxas#EricMetaxas #TheEricMetaxasShow #News #PoliticsChapter and its affiliates are not connected with or endorsed by any government entity or the federal Medicare program. Chapter Advisory, LLC represents Medicare Advantage HMO, PPO, and PFFS organizations and stand alone prescription drug plans that have a Medicare contract. Enrollment depends on the plan’s contract renewal. While we have a database of every Medicare plan nationwide and can help you to search among all plans, we have contracts with many but not all plans. As a result, we do not offer every plan available in your area. Currently we represent 50 organizations which offer 18,160 products nationwide. We search and recommend all plans, even those we don’t directly offer. You can contact a licensed Chapter agent to find out the number of products available in your specific area. Please contact Medicare.gov, 1-800-Medicare, or your local State Health Insurance Program (SHIP) to get information on all of your options.

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with the Alberta Eye Gaming Corporation. Standard message and data rates may apply. When Westcham first took flight in 1996, The vibes were a bit different. People thought denim on denim was peak fashion. Inline skates were everywhere, and two out of three women rocked, the Rachel. While those things stayed in the 90s,

one thing that hasn't is that fuzzy feeling you get when WestJet welcomes you on board. Here's to WestJetting since 96. Travel back in time with us and actually travel with us at westjet.com slash 30 years. You will remember, and I know people listening to this program,

will remember that some months ago, I think maybe it was February or March, I told the story of something happening where I was in Connecticut and I hear a bang and I somebody knocking the door. I open the door and I see a hawk with a dove in its talons. And it was right there. And I thought, this is bizarre. It's like God speaking.

This is just a crazy thing. I've never seen anything like this ever in my life. And there it is. And it was, you know, it was startling. It was interesting. But of course, what are you going to do? you know, hawks, eat doves, and I move on with the day. The next morning, I'm reading through the scripture with Suzanne, and we come up on a passage in Isaiah about birds of prey, and I say,

oh, Suzanne, I got to tell you this story that happened to me yesterday. I heard a bang, and I go downstairs in Connecticut, I open the door, and I see a hawk and a dove eight feet away from my head. I'm looking at this hawk with this dove and his talons. And Suzanne then proceeds to tell me, and this is the mind blower that, oh, hey Erica, yesterday, while you were in Connecticut, I was at a Park Avenue penthouse apartment visiting a friend. And while we were sitting there out on her terrace, there's a tree and we saw a hawk in the tree with a dove in its talons. And I, you know, at that point, you look at each other and you say, okay, God is speaking. What the hell? Right.

What are the odds? Suzanne's never seen anything like this. I've never seen anything like this. Both of us were married to each other. We're in separate states. We see the same thing on the same afternoon. Absolutely bizarre. So the question is, what does it mean?

And you and I have talked about this, and I've talked to my friend David Englehart about this and other friends. And I think the answer is we still don't know. We haven't known. And I've prayed about this period. in the monstance, Lord, you clearly said we're trying to say something, but you're not giving us the meaning yet. And the other day, I have what I think might be the answer to that, and I wanted to pass it by you.

So are you ready? Yeah. Okay. As you know, you can tell from my tan, I was in Greece recently. You mentioned how we talk about evil. It's called Theodicy. Well, I've been reading The Odyssey, which is the book or the poem written by Homer, because in Greece. I've talked about this on the program.

They've discovered the grave of the king, whatever. I won't go into the whole story. But I was thinking not long ago, a couple weeks ago, or even more recently, a week ago, I thought, my goodness, in Homer, I remember reading the Ili in the Odyssey, they have a thing where they have bird signs. And then the seer or, now again,

we know this is a pagan world, it's not a Christian world, but, you know, they see an omen. They see birds doing things, and then somebody interprets it. And because I've been thinking about Odysseus and Homer, and I was rereading The Odyssey recently, I thought, huh, I wonder if there's a clue someplace in Homer. I wonder if there's any place in Homer where a hawk captures a dove, because there's all kinds of bird signs.

and sure enough, there is. Interesting. When Telemachus is coming home, people who know this story know that, you know, they don't know if Odysseus is dead or alive. Telemachus' son says, it's time for me now. I'm, you know, 20 years old or whatever. I'm going to go to the mainland and try to meet with King Nestor and to see if anybody can tell me what happened to my father. And on the way home, now, of course, the suitors who have been. very disrespectful. They have been kind of camped out in his house, in Ithaca, in Odysseus's home,

saying they want to marry Penelope. They've been extremely rude and they've been eating Odysseus's cattle and pigs and just taking advantage. Very, very rude, very disrespectful. They want to kill Telemachus. Okay, he's coming home. He's the heir. They want to get him out of the way so they can get Penelope, one of them can marry Penelope and have the kingdom for themselves. And so before, I think it's, it's just as Telemachus is leaving to come home now. And of course, we know how the story ends. Odysseus meets him. They, they meet and they kill all the suitors.

But before that, when Telemachus is still completely uncertain, they see a hawk, attack and kill a dove. It's really clear. And it's immediately interpreted as, in a sense, the hawk is Odysseus, the dove is the suitors. And that it's basically, I mean, I'm speaking somewhat sloppily because it's complicated, but basically that there is going to be vengeance, there is going to be justice. Right. The true line of the king, Odysseus, it will prevail.

and these interlopers and these suitors will will be destroyed. Justice is coming. And I was thinking it's kind of like saying Aslan is on the move. Right. He's not here yet, but rest assured, we've heard rumors of him. We've heard rumors of Odysseus coming back. He is on his way. He is alive and he will execute justice.

They will be vengeance. There will be whatever. So when I thought of it that way, I thought how would it apply to where we are now? And this is maybe my own parochial, this is my own wish fulfillment or maybe it's true. But I thought we have a similar situation in the United States where evil men have taken over our government. They have been eating us out of house and home. They have the level of corruption. Taxpayer money has been devoured by wicked.

corrupt people. You know, we call it the swamp. We call whatever we call it. It's vile and it is wrong. And, you know, we the people are supposed to elect someone to look out for our interests. That person, you know, we can say for years in a way, we didn't have a voice. And you kind of wonder, is Daddy ever coming home? Is there ever going to be justice?

Are these people that have taken over the palace, taken over our palace? will they ever be dealt with? Will justice ever come? And I was just wondering, and we've only had a few minutes left, but I thought, is that what is happening? Is that what's happening with the re-election of Donald Trump,

that he is slowly, too slowly for most of us, but that dealing with this or that there are forces that are dealing with this. I just said, let me throw this crazy idea out at my friend Ken Fish. Well, yes, I think you're on. the right path. And I think it's much bigger than just, you know, Donald Trump or we might say,

you know, some other politician in some other country. I think the bigger issue is that there is divine justice and there is this thing called judgment day. And, you know, we're not supposed to talk about that anymore because we don't want, we're not supposed to talk about the fact that God still controls the universe. And we're also not supposed to talk about that, I don't know, that side of God that deals with justice because we live in an age where, as it were, anything goes. Well, no, I want to say that's, of course, the larger framing. God is the one.

Jesus is going to return. He is the king who is going to return and execute justice and vengeance on evil people and those who've done evil to the innocent. And that's the larger story. But I was just kind of curious, is that part of what is going on now? Sometimes I think of of Trump as an Odysseus figure.

There's a cleverness that he's never telling you really what's going on. He's always, you know, maybe it's, he would call it the art of the deal, but that he's doing things. He's doing several things once behind the scenes. And when you read the story of the Odyssey,

that's exactly what Odysseus does. He doesn't kind of come straight at the thing. He sort of pretends to be someone else. And, you know, but anyway, sorry, go ahead. Well, nowhere is that more clear, never mind our government than in the way he's handled the Iran situation. There have been several places where, you know, there's a word that, again, you don't hear it used often, faint. And I don't mean like to faint away because your blood pressure drops. F-E-I-N-T, fate.

And it seems that he has done that where he seems to be doing one thing or he's got, you know, one hand over here while he's doing something else over here. and little by little, and it has taken some time, it seems like we're gaining traction over the situation with Iran, which had clearly gotten out of control. So, yes, and within government, and by the way, it's not just Donald Trump. I think there are a lot of people that are calling out for righteousness and justice. And in the book of Proverbs, it says when the righteous rule, the people rejoice. So what we really mean by that is when righteous principles are being enforced, the people will rejoice. But, of course, the evildoers, those who have been doing contrary to righteousness, they won't be rejoicing. And in our world, because of the way things are set up in media in particular, everybody seems to have a microphone.

And so even as the righteous are trying to gain traction or the principles of righteousness are trying to gain traction, those who have been enforcing evil and upholding evil and advancing evil, they're shouting the loudest because essentially their place is being compromised. I don't know how else to say that, but I think there is that thing going on right now and it's happening in many countries. It's not just in our country. So God misses nothing. He offers you. acts more slowly than we would like. But in the end, to quote Martin Luther King, Jr., the arc of the universe bends towards justice. It just happens to take longer than we think it should. Well, there's no doubt about that. I'm still just puzzled at suddenly being, you know,

reading Homer and then realizing the only place that I've ever seen Bird Omen was in Homer. And that's kind of where I got the idea. When I saw this, I thought, well, God is speaking. You know, it's not the gods. It's not Zeus. It's God who's speaking. If anybody's speaking, at least I hope it's the Lord because, you know, but how do we interpret that?

And I just was kind of wondering suddenly that I'm reading Homer and should I interpret it according to, you know, what Homer is saying in here in this great poem, this great story that justice is coming and to think of the hawk as the executor of justice rather than, you know, an evil, a war hawk attacking a peaceful dove. I don't know. I really don't know. There's a lot more to it. And we're just about out of time.

So I'll give you 60 seconds. Then we'll have to wrap up. All right. Well, let me say this. I think God always speaks to us in the language we understand. Now, sometimes it'll puzzle us and we kind of need to tease it out. But that's generally how God speaks to us, because why else would you do it if you're not going to be understood?

For you, you're a Greek and you understand the language of Homer. Many people have never read Homer. So I think, yes, the Lord may well be using this as a sign. He's, I would say, borrowing from the literature of antiquity to do it. But yes, God can do that, and it is something that resonates with you. I think that's something we have to listen for is the resonance of the Holy Spirit, or what some people call the witness of the Spirit, whenever we see a scripture that jumps off the page at us, or as in this case, we see something that seems very unusual.

And remember this, the scripture also says, out of the mouth of two or more witnesses, shall every matter be established. So you saw it, Suzanne saw it, you saw it the same day. that's i mean the odds of that happening randomly are extremely low i don't know what they are but they're very very low they're zero yeah they're approximately zero exactly um we yeah we don't believe in in that kind of thing well um we have we have to wrap up this hour i think i'll keep you for another segment but folks uh orbis ministries orbis ministries dot org for all things ken fish uh ken thanks for all you do. Folks, go to Orbis, or BIS Ministries.org. And there's a Nashville conference

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call Chapter at 571-421-1253. That's 571-421-1253. It's time to find the clarity you deserve. Okay, I want to continue my conversation with you, Mr. Ken Fish, about everything. I want to about the conference that's coming up, October 1, 2, 3rd, in Nashville. But also what I was just talking about with you,

this bizarre idea of interpreting. I mean, honestly, I think sometimes people are grasping at straws. They say, oh, does this mean this mean this? Yes. But for me to have this bizarre experience with a hawk and a dove right in front of my eyes, which I've never seen. You know, I grew up in Danbury, Connecticut in that house, and I've ever seen anything like this before.

Boom, I see it. And then my wife tells me the next day, oh, I saw the same thing on Park Avenue in Manhattan. I thought that is God's way of saying, pay attention. Like this is, okay. So then the question is, okay, Lord,

what do you want me to do with this? And I've talked to all kinds of people about it, trying to get, make some sense of it. But as I say recently, I found myself unexpectedly, actually, in Greece, on the island where my father grew up, where Odysseus is from, and the whole thing.

So it kind of sucked me back into thinking about Odysseus and in rereading the Odyssey. And then I thought, my goodness, the whole idea of bird signs, omens or whatever I got from reading Homer. You know, at age 17 and onward, they always talk about it. And now this seems to have happened to me. What am I to make of this?

And so I thought, well, what does Homer say about it? And as I just said, in this case, the hawk attacking the dove, which is in Homer, is when it's a sign to telemachas that in a sense, all will be well. Justice is coming. Yes. Your father, the king is alive. He is returning and he will bring justice on these wicked suitors. But as I say to me, it made me think of the situation we're in in this country because we have had, let's be clear.

Many people know I think this. Not everybody will agree with me. But I think we have had a cabal of deeply wicked people who have taken control of our government at the head of the list of violence. figures is former President Obama, John Brennan, who headed up the CIA. These are people who were really running a shadow government who stole America from we the people. This is our country. We elect our leaders. And in effect, they said, you know, your suckers, shut up. We have the power. We have know how to pull the levers. We've done it in other countries. Now we're going to do it here. When when Trump gets elected in 2016, they hobble him. They have the whole Russia

collusion hoax. They basically take over the government so that, you know, the election is stolen in 2020. I think that the evidence of that is actually coming out. They staged this, you know, Fed surrection January 6th, pretend that, I mean, on and on. There are many people who will disagree with this, many people who listen, who listen, who do agree with this. But I mean, if it is true, which I'm convinced it is, it is vile and it is no different than people taking over your house and camping out and putting their feet up on your coffee table, their dirty shoes on your coffee table, and drinking your, your liquor and eating your food and groping your women. And, you know, you think, will daddy ever come home and take care of what's happening?

in our house, will justice ever be done? And I would like to believe and do believe that God has appointed President Trump to deal with this. And so I can't help but see, but I'm, I'm not saying that I know that's the case, but it struck me that perhaps that's the interpretation. It's not perfectly clear to me. So I just, I throw it, I've thrown it out at you and my audience, you know, to see what we make of it.

Well, there are a lot of things I could say, but I'm aware that, you know, we have limited time, so I'm trying to distill my thoughts as I'm speaking in real time here. But this business of whether it's interpreting dreams, whether interpreting prophetic words, or in this case, signs or what some might call omens, sometimes it comes. as a gift of the Spirit. And, you know, the Holy Spirit gives gifts. And I believe that interpretation of dreams, or in this case, signs, is among them. And we do see the language of signs and wonders in the pages of Scripture. And it says, in the last of days, there will be signs in the heavens and on the earth beneath. So never mind astrological signs and never mind astronomy and the movement

of stars and planets on the earth beneath. So is it possible that this is legitimately a sign? Yes, it is. And as we've noted, it's a highly unusual thing to see it once, but to see it twice. And both you and Suzanne, obviously, are one family, you're married. Suzanne's in the city when this happens.

You're not exactly in the country, but it's more country up in Danbury than New York City. for sure. So what might we say? Well, justice is coming both to the city and to the country. So all areas will be affected. And, you know, when John the Baptist is preaching ahead of Jesus, he is quoting from Isaiah, and he says, every valley will be lifted up, every mountain and hill will be made low, the rough places will be made a plain, and all flesh will see the glory of the Lord. But the wider, the wider context of that, if you go back and look at Isaiah, most people don't bother to read books like

that because they don't really understand them very well, and it's confusing. But the wider context is actually talking about leveling things up, bringing justice forward, and having a righteous people emerge so that injustice is dealt with, and things that are out of sorts will be brought to order. And so, you know, this. This can happen cyclically through history, and then, as we've already noted, there is a once and for all event. But I think we are in the middle of some kind of a reset of that kind where various forms of wickedness, and that's a very strong word, I know, but there have been a lot of forms of wickedness that have been openly promulgated by leaders that is being addressed and is being brought down. And so I think, you know, in this specific instance, Eric, this, I mean, can anyone be 100% sure? Emotionally, we can be 100% sure, but in terms of like how we would put this on trial in court, maybe not.

But I would say there is a very high probability. It is nearly certain that this was, in fact, a legitimate sign from God. And someone may say, well, why would we interpret this according to Homer? I mean, he's pagan. Well, Paul quotes pagan poets when he says, in him we live and move and have our being. So God can speak through many different means, and his word is obviously the best way to do it.

But to see something like a hawk capturing a dove and, you know, hitting, whether being caught in a tree or hitting the door of your home, to see something like that, You don't have a reference point for that in scripture, although here's what you do have. It is at least kind of tracking in the same direction. It says in Isaiah 40, which is part of the whole passage dealing with mountains being leveled and valleys being lifted up, at the end of Isaiah 40, it says,

excuse me, those who wait on the Lord, they will renew their strength, and they will mount up with wings like eagles. So a lot of commentators want to say that the distinctions between hawks and eagles were not maybe as nuanced as we think of them now because of the way we categorize flora and fauna. But these are all raptors. They're all birds of prey.

Right, right. So they will gain strength like a hawk or an eagle. And they will run anachro-weary. they will walk and not faint, but they will do that in the midst of righteousness being brought down, which is to say those who are among the righteous, and we got to be careful with that, because I think people can become easily self-righteous, and there's a kind of danger that can enter in there where we think the ends justify the means and we become kind of a reverse form of Machiavelli. But notwithstanding that caution, those who are among the righteous,

who hold the God's principles, who believe in righteousness, they are going to rise up on wings like eagles, and they will not grow faint in the execution of righteousness and restoring the way God would have a society to run. I think that would be a reasonable way of saying it in under five minutes. There you go. Who told you to say it in under five minutes, Ken? Well, I'm watching the timer,

and I'm concerned that we're going to run out of time, so I thought I better be sustained. But it's not your show. That's my show. All right. Good enough. So given that we, given that we can say that, you know, I think this is a time for the righteous to arise.

And as the righteous arise, the people will rejoice. And one of the other things we know is that righteousness, unrighteousness is an offense. And while it may seem to go on for a long time, and the prophets cried out about this, Jeremiah is complaining bitterly in his book about the unrighteousness that is in place in Jerusalem. Isaiah before him was talking about the unrighteousness in many nations, including the northern kingdom and a bit more in Judah. And many of the other prophets similarly decried the evil of their day. The message in all of those is God is going to bring a restoration and he is going to correct this. Now, sometimes that correction, it's pretty severe. Doesn't feel good. Doesn't look pretty.

I mean, Jerusalem gets destroyed. The Jewish people go into exile because of it. And they don't come back for a long time, not till well. Well, listen, I mean, I was going to say, again, I want to just to be clear, I want to know what is God saying. And I don't want to interpret anything just to interpret it. And you know, you're already in uncertain territory when you're talking about things like bird signs. I can see a lot of people like, well, that's got nothing to do with the Bible. That was the devil. I don't think it was the devil. And if it wasn't the devil that I think, you know, God was speaking. But the, you know, we want to be clear, we want to be careful in how we interpret these things. And we want to always be biblical and keep our eyes on the Lord.

But we do know that things are cyclical. I mean, World War II ended. Hitler dies. things, you know, wax and wings. So the ultimate justice is Jesus coming. But in the meantime, you kind of wonder, okay, Lord, what is happening now? And I do think that there are many Americans that have felt like, you know, our home has been taken over by invaders,

by people eating our food and treating us disrespectfully. This is our home. They should respect our home. They're not respecting our home. And you could interpret this on many, many levels. Sure. But it seems fundamentally wrong.

And it would be wrong if it happened in somebody's house. It's wrong when it happens in our house, which is our nation. And then the question is, okay, what about it? Is the Lord going to return and, you know, we're in the last days? Or is there going to be a reset? And I think many people have said, and I have agreed that the re-election of Donald Trump in the second term is to bring this kind of justice, that this is not just. you know, for us to have a tiny reprieve, but that in fact, that that's the idea. But I think people wonder, just as they do in the scripture, how long, Lord, what is, what is happening? When will there

be justice for I have my friend John Strand imprisoned for doing nothing on January 6th, went through hell? All kinds of people have suffered, lost jobs because they didn't get the vaccine. Right. Horrible stuff. And, you know, we just kind of wonder, my friend Jim Kunstler, who's been on this program many, many times. He has been writing about this in the Southern District in Florida, this case that's going on dealing with Russia collusion. They've just subpoenaed John Brennan. What is going on? Joe de Genova, who was overseeing that whole thing, just resigned. We just wonder, are we ever going to see justice? Are we going to have clarity on the people who, you know, perpetrated this vile?

Russia hoax on the nation designed only to cripple the presidency of Donald Trump and folks you understand it's not about Donald Trump it's about you. You elected him. We elected him. He would not be president if we the people had not elected him. So he represents us. It's not about him.

It's about we the people. It's about America. And I really do think that people are waiting for justice. Are we going to have justice? And I say this in part because I think there's some people they don't care. They just want to move on. And I think you can't move on when something like that has happened. You have to deal with it.

The people who did this have to be brought to justice. If President Obama is the mastermind behind this coup, we have to deal with this. We have to deal with him. The nation needs to see what these men and women have done. We have to have a reckoning. And it may be ugly. I mean, if the president somehow insists that we have fair elections in November in a way that, I mean, the left is already preparing to say this is a coup. In other words, they're going to take him trying to force fair elections so that we all know who wins.

They're going to pretend that he is, quote, unquote, an election denier or whatever. So in a sense, we're at war. It's a different kind of war. But we're at war with wicked forces, and we have to fight. cannot simply say, well, you know, we don't want to look bad in the press. Let's let it go. There's a time to let it go. I mean, when Nixon let it go, the corruption in 1960, when it looks like JFK and his father, you know, in West Virginia and in Chicago stole the election. It was statesmanship for Nixon at that point to say, we're going to let it go. At this point,

it's just grown to a level of horror that we need a reckoning and sometimes a reckoning is ugly. The civil war was ugly. The revolution was ugly. People suffer and die. It's difficult. It takes years. But I don't know if that's what's happening. But again, I just thought I throw this at you. You can respond briefly. And then we can talk a little bit about your conference because I know you don't have too much time. Go ahead. Well, I mean, what you're raising is a huge issue. And I hesitate to go off half-cocked. So I'd rather be a little more cautious in my remarks than expansive and then later lived a regret, having made a particular remark.

But I absolutely agree with you that justice needs to be served. And I think there is plenty of evidence coming out that much of this seems to have had a coordinated intelligence behind it. Of course. Yeah. And because that, because there is a growing body of evidence, this is why we have courts. This is why we have a justice system.

And whether it's, you know, violent crimes, like we were talking about earlier in this show, that, you know, individuals have committed, or systemic crimes that, you know, maybe we used to call it white-collar crimes. crime or something like the attempt to subvert an entire democracy, both are wrong. And just as we have justice at the individual level, we need to have justice at the systemic level. I don't know where that might take us, but we can certainly look at other countries

that had this sort of thing go on. And, I mean, it did lead to catastrophe. I mean, Hitler was a corrupt man himself. And look at the catastrophe that he brought. upon Germany. And so we need to get this righted, less catastrophe overtake our country. Well, I'll put in a plug for my book on the American Revolution. People need to know how this country came into being. And it's a beautiful story. I think I've mentioned recently that Amazon, the price has dropped dramatically.

It's 35% off. But I sometimes think we need a plum line. And I think the story of the American Revolution is the plum line. This is who we are. That's right. This is who we're meant to be. That's right. And we need to under, we really need to understand that.

Otherwise, we can't possibly get it right today. So that's my shameless plug. Please, folks, read my book on the American Revolution. We really need, we're at a crisis point, very similar to the American Revolution, the Civil War. That's right. And we need to be prepared appropriately. Let me just say one thing on that, Eric. Just very quick.

This will be very quick. You know, I think a lot of people. are a little hesitant because we've been told that the story of America is a racist narrative. Yes, whites did come here. Yes, they did settle here. But I don't think they came here to establish slavery, and I don't think they came here to steal Indian land or Native American land. Did that happen? Yes. But all that means is things can go amiss even when intentions are good. but the intention of the American, as they used to say, experiment was that we would have a righteous government. And that's where we want to return to. And that's where many of us were educated to believe in America because we have principles. We have values. And it's those values that have been subverted and they've been stood on their head. And as the prophets of old said, woe to you who call evil good and good evil. That's where we are.

I want to take the last four minutes to talk about your conference coming up. People can find you at Orbis Ministries, ORBIS Ministries.org. Give us a couple of minutes on the conference coming up October 1st through 3rd in Nashville. Sure. The last three years we've had conferences that thematically were looking at the interaction between the miraculous world, the prophetic world, which is, I think, a form of the miraculous. and science, I mean, hard objective science. And we've been working with that for three years. This year we're continuing with that, but with a slightly different emphasis.

We're calling this conference luminosity. Luminosity is a scientific word, and it refers to the amount of light that a given object can admit. Might be a star, could be a flashlight, but that's the maximum output it can have. But sometimes the luminosity of a given object is a bit. obscured. There might be dust in the air or in space. There might be gas clouds that cut down on the transmission of that light and more. And what we're looking at this year is a sub-theme of consecration and holiness with the idea that our lights would shine brightly. We, the people of God, the Christian church. Everyone knows the church is in need of reformation as well. We've had plenty of expose

going on the last few years. But we're calling for a time of consecration and holiness, and we have some outstanding speakers. We often have miracles happen in our meetings there. We've had some incredible prophetic words brought that came to pass. We're going to have a healing service. And so this is a time for the people of God to gather, we might say, in a holy convocation,

and also a time to celebrate God himself. And so if you are a person whose heart has been longing for a return to the foundations of righteousness, the very things Eric and I have just been talking about, the prior part of this has been a little bit more in the political realm. Now we want to talk about personal and churchwide righteousness and holiness. This would be a conference you would really want to be at. As I say, we have outstanding speakers. I could run through the lineup. But the point is these are people who are well-known, well-renew, well-remoner.

respected, and by the way, vetted. They'd have no known compromise or errors of darkness or shadow in their lives. They're the right speakers for this theme at this time, and I'm really excited to be having this. The dates are October 1 to 3. It'll be a Bethel World Outreach Church, not associated with the Bethel Church in Reading. Beffle World Outreach is a different movement or denomination, and it's in Nashville, Tennessee. And you can either sign up online, at orbus ministries.org or if you want, you can sign up at the door. All right. Well, it's just always a joy to have you to talk to you. Thank you, my friend. I really wish I could be there in Nashville, October 1st, 3rd. We've got lots more to talk about,

but for today, we'll leave it there. My friend Ken Fish, God bless you and thank you. Thanks for having Newark. It's always a privilege to be with you. Blessings. Today's show is brought to you by Grace Precious Metals. In an industry that can be confusing, Grace believes in doing business differently with Christian values, transparent pricing and a focus on straightforward gold and silver bullion, not high markup collectible coins. They even publish their spreads directly on their website so you can see the numbers before speaking with anyone. Learn whether physical precious metals may fit your financial plans at Metaxus, Metals.com. That's metaxusmetals.com. Where some see heroes and others see egos.

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