The Eric Metaxas Show - #215 - Billy Hallowell

Episode Date: October 5, 2026

The viral image of a passenger duct-taped to his airplane seat only told part of the story.Billy Hallowell joins Eric with new details from interviews with two of the passengers who stepped in during the bizarre midflight incident involving Jonathan Cahn. Billy says one of the men was a retired police officer who helped restrain the passenger after the situation became physical. According to those witnesses, there was blood, the passenger bit one of the men restraining him, screamed that everyone on the plane was going to die, and continued behaving erratically after the emergency landing.Eric and Billy also revisit the strange details surrounding the incident and discuss whether there could have been a spiritual dimension to what happened.Later, Billy shares new survey findings about what Americans actually believe about miracles, angels, demons, heaven, hell and spiritual warfare, including the surprising number who say they have personally experienced miraculous answers to prayer.⭐ ORDER NOW:Revolution: The Birth of the Greatest Nation in the History of the World📕: https://a.co/d/0ir3NlapTODAY'S SPONSORS:🪙 Grace Precious Metals: https://www.metaxasmetals.com/🛏️ MyPillow — Save BIG with code ERIC: https://www.mypillow.com/☀️ Honest, fast, and free Medicare plan guidance: https://askchapter.com/metaxas/0:00 Billy Hallowell Joins0:43 New Details About The Duct-Taped Passenger2:01 The Men Who Stepped In5:51 Why They Had To Restrain Him9:21 The Laptop And Other Bizarre Details13:12 “Everyone’s Going To Die”18:19 What Americans Believe About The Supernatural25:18 Miracles, Healing And Answered Prayer29:07 Spiritual Attacks And Spiritual Warfare32:21 Why Churches Avoid Talking About Demons38:34 Where To Find Billy’s Investigations- - -LIKE AND SUBSCRIBE: https://www.youtube.com/@ericmetaxas#EricMetaxas #TheEricMetaxasShow #News #PoliticsChapter and its affiliates are not connected with or endorsed by any government entity or the federal Medicare program. Chapter Advisory, LLC represents Medicare Advantage HMO, PPO, and PFFS organizations and stand alone prescription drug plans that have a Medicare contract. Enrollment depends on the plan’s contract renewal. While we have a database of every Medicare plan nationwide and can help you to search among all plans, we have contracts with many but not all plans. As a result, we do not offer every plan available in your area. Currently we represent 50 organizations which offer 18,160 products nationwide. We search and recommend all plans, even those we don’t directly offer. You can contact a licensed Chapter agent to find out the number of products available in your specific area. Please contact Medicare.gov, 1-800-Medicare, or your local State Health Insurance Program (SHIP) to get information on all of your options.

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skip by the lines of people waiting for food. Steer clear of the crowded shelter turning people away, then take the next exit. Let's stop looking away and get in the way of rising poverty. Your donations help the United Way fight poverty in thousands of ways, like providing food, shelter, and crisis prevention. Donate today at United WayGT.org. Hey there, folks. Welcome to the program. I have the joy of being friends with a guy named Billy Hallowell. And I thought, hey, Billy, when do you come on the program?

Billy Hallowell, you know him. He's been on here many times. You've seen him many places, probably mostly on CBN. He's got to show their newsmakers. This is a film series called Investing, Investigating the Supernatural. And I want to talk to him about some supernatural events today on this program. Billy Hallowell. Welcome back.

Hey, thanks for having me. Well, you're one of these people I can talk to about these things. We had an experience. I shared about it on this program. I had a conversation with Jonathan Kahn about what happened to him on the plane, where he was having a conversation with a seemingly nice individual who at some point in the conversation lost his mind. it sounds like he was manifesting demonic stuff.

And then was, this sounds like we're making this up, was duct taped to the seat because he was such a threat. So you have something to add to this. What are your thoughts? To whom did you speak to give us new info on that crazy incident? I actually feel really bad for the guy. I don't know what happened, but it just sounds so insane. Yeah, I mean, I've gone out of my way to not even name him.

You know, we've covered this story a bunch of times. I've covered it for a number of outlets, including CBN. And I don't name him because I think when you go through something like that, whether people want to believe it was mental or spiritual, whatever they want to think. And I think there are some really compelling elements that make it feel spiritual. And we could talk through some of that. You know, I've gone out of my way to not name him. His name has been dragged through every outlet.

He's reportedly lost his job. and it is really sad. You know, a couple of things. So I've talked to Jonathan Kahn like you have, but I also talked with Richard and Juan. Now, they were the two passengers who were on the flight, and they are the ones who duct taped him to the seat. And so I wanted to track them down mainly to understand,

you know, when a situation like this happens, and you know this, you get a lot of perspective from Jonathan Kahn, but we've not heard from anybody else. So getting a chance to hear from them, and then actually, it was funny, Jonathan watched the interview and then reached out to me after and was like, hey, there were some interesting things there that he didn't even know, you know, from their perspective.

But, you know, Richard owns a gun shop out in New Jersey and Juan is a retired police officer. So those details had been reported, but they took me through their perspective of what was going on. And I got to tell you, Eric, it was really interesting to hear from a former cop, right, the things I hadn't thought of, right? Everybody's looking at the image of the guy taped to the seat. We're talking about the spiritual implications of what might have gone on. And I do think we should talk more about that, obviously. But the other piece of this was that you had this cop who was trained in how to de-escalate situations. And thank God he was the one who was on that plane because he explained to me, look, he was like there were women and children in that first class section where this was going on.

And those women and children were starting to panic. And he said in a lot of situations, you would just flee a scenario where a guy's freaking out like that. When you're 30,000 feet in the air, you can't feel. flee. And so what will sometimes happen is other people will start to freak out. So you have this chain reaction that they were trying to prevent by controlling him. And so it was just interesting to get in the mind of a cop and how he was processing what they were doing and even making sure other people didn't get injured in the process. You know, our guy asked them, well, what would have happened if you guys weren't there? Because nobody was doing anything. Keep in mind, and you know this from talking,

you know, with Jonathan, this situation was escalating and nobody was stepping in. You know, Nobody knew what to do on the flight crew. None of the other passengers were stepping in until these two guys took action. So I'll stop there and let you ask any questions. But I thought it was really interesting because they felt like if they had not stepped in, this could have actually gotten very dark, even darker than a what. Let me just, you know, throwing a hot tip for anybody listening. This is why you need real men in the world.

Because an effeminate man who's a flight attendant or an effeminate woman who's a flight attendant. or an effeminate woman who's a flight attendant, you know, when you're talking about a cop, when you're talking about somebody who knows how to deal with this and who can step up with some force, now it doesn't need to be a cop, but I mean, I don't know how I would have reacted in that instance, but when you have a dangerous man,

you need men to step up, to step in. And I think, I mean, I've seen this happen on the subway. I had an incident on the, Subway, I guess is about 10 years ago. It's really interesting. You see kind of what people are made of. And here you have on a flight, just to, I mean, as you're describing it, right? And because I always wanted to know, and maybe you could tell me this, what in the world was going on that this dude had to be duct taped to the seat.

To me, unless I get an explanation, it seems kind of crazy to me that that had to happen. I didn't see, I didn't hear from Jonathan that the man was flailing and trying to, you know, choke people. I mean, he was, I guess he was fake choking Jonathan or I don't know, but tell us what happened because I, even though I interviewed Jonathan, I didn't really get the full story. And it sounds like he sort of didn't get the full story, even though he was there. Yeah, you know, it's interesting. And he may have shared some of these details with you. It was escalating. What's so weird is to go two hours into a flight, having a.

normal conversation with somebody, you know, and then for them to flip, and for them to flip when you start talking to them about matters of faith, right? That's what was so interesting about it, the voice changing, all of those things. You know, according to this man himself, he'd only had two drinks on the flight. I've gone back to Jonathan to ask that question, how many drinks did he have? And he said, certainly not enough to be acting the way that he was. Now, who knows what else could have been going on, you know, there. But the other two individuals, you know, Rich and Juan, they said that they were watching a very chaotic situation. It escalated very quickly.

And the part that I think led them to stand up, if I have this correct, was they were actually arguing out of the seat physically at this point because, and I remember Jonathan telling me, God dropped on Jonathan this thought, protect your computer. Yes. He's going to, okay. So when he thought that, this man reportedly went and grabbed the laptop. And now they're out of their seats fighting over the laptop. Now, Jonathan didn't remember this, but Juan, the former police officer, said that there was blood everywhere,

that at some point this guy had gotten injured, probably from the laptop hitting him. And so the cop had blood on him from this guy as they were trying to restrain him. So it was out of control. It sounded from Rich and Juan that it could have gotten more violent or out of control had they not stepped in. Now, I heard them say that. And then he told me another detail, which I had read in a number of stories, that this man, when he was duct taped had tried to bite people. But he apparently, according to Juan, did bite him.

He bit his hand. So as they're trying to duct tape him... You see, look, this makes sense because I was actually thinking, why in the world would they duct tape? I mean, this is a really, folks, this is a, you know, it's a disturbing thing, okay, to be restrained with duct tape.

I mean, I don't care who you are. This is a disturbing thing that you would do this to somebody. How violent are they being? Now, what you just said reminded me, that this guy was trying to get Jonathan's laptop. How insane is that? Let's just think about that for a second. Why?

Why? Why would this man want Jonathan's laptop? I mean, I fly first class all the time. I'm the idea that some passenger would be trying to get your lap. It's almost unbelievable. And it does underscore the argument for this is demonic, because why would this guy? care about Jonathan.

I mean, it really doesn't make any sense. But that's, that really is a shocking thing that he would try to, to rip the laptop out of, that Jonathan gets out of his seat. And now this kind of spills over. It's beyond their two seats. I, I mean, that is amazing. Of course, I didn't hear about the blood. But the fact that the guy was trying to bite people.

And actually did bite the cop. I mean, he bit this ex-cob, this former cop in the hand. And that's probably why they went to this extreme extent of, you know, taping his head. Well, and they were worried. They were, and they sat on him. One of the, the other guy, Rich, sat on him to make sure he didn't get out of this until they landed. They had to emergency land, as you know, in Baltimore. They were supposed to be going to Newark, New Jersey.

And so a couple of things, just to go back to the spiritual part of this. And again, this may have been said on the show by Jonathan, but I think it's worth revisiting. You know, Jonathan had this weird black line. appear on his computer before he got on the plane. And, you know, he said he always, his book had just come out, the ultra-purgam, and it had just come out a couple of days before, that every time the book comes out,

something strange happens, maybe not this strange. But when the guy was having this interaction with him, before it got really crazy, he reached over and allegedly tapped that computer and it went totally black. That's weird, but it's also weird that when the book image was on the computer,

this man was yelling at the computer and pointing, why did you do that pointing at the book image? No, saying, what have you done? That's what he said. What have you done? What have you done? It does sound like a demon talking because why would a human being ask that question?

It's such a weird. I mean, really, it's anybody, sorry, go ahead. Yeah. All right, so they sit on him and they have to restrain him. And according to Rich and Juan, when the plane landed, this guy was fighting with the cops who were trying to take him off. So, you know, I mean, even then, there was, there was no calmness. Once he was duct taped and the plane landed, emergency landing,

everybody gets off, he's still reportedly acting erratically. What was so remarkable then was the court hearing, which we've heard some audio from after, where this man has no recollection of anything that happened on the airplane. So there are a lot of things, look, whether, again, whether you want to believe it was spiritual or mental, something was going on. And I think when you add all the factors up, it's pretty bizarre to consider that this book, which deals with the demonic that deals with the enemy comes out. This scenario happens and we're sitting here talking about it. But I do want to just, I want to say that Rich and Juan, your point about real men, they took action. They stood up. They did something. And, you know, look, Juan was saying,

what do you do? You have this guy who's erratic. Now he's in the aisle. If you don't take him down the right way, he's going to fall in other people. He could injure other people. They had to think about all of these different things as they were, you know, taking care of this. And honestly, I think that the people on the plane, I'm sure, were grateful because of the panic that said in that they did take action. Well, again, you know, I'm not trying to dis, uh, to dis, uh, effeminate men or, or women, but when you're in a dangerous situation, you know, you want a manly man to be around or, or several of them to be around. And it's not just the physical strength issue.

It's the act, it's the, the, the willingness, courageously to leap in. I mean, I've been in situations like this where, you know, a real man is going to leap in because you don't want somebody to get hurt. You don't want somebody who's weaker to get hurt. So you feel like it's my job. I got to jump in. And it amazes me really that we, you don't want somebody. that we don't have more incidents like this.

Maybe we do, but not on planes. And I think that, you know, it's kind of like in a shooting situation. You know, you want people with guns to be there if some guy shows up who wants to kill people because the guys with the guns can stop him. And we've had that happen. That's kind of the way the world used to work, right? That, you know, men were men. And a lot of people had guns, cops had guns.

and they're cops around, but evil needs to be restrained in the natural, you know, whether it's a supernatural event or not. And it's just interesting to me that when you're on a plane, who is there? You just assume that there are some guys around. And in this case, thank God, they were two of them there. You know, the pilot can't leave the controls

and leap out and deal with it. Yeah. Well, I got to tell you something else. I totally almost forgot this. This is important because these were details I had not heard. not only was this situation going on with Jonathan. Now, this is according to Juan and Rich. They said that the man had also been screaming things like everyone's going to die on the plane.

The plane's going down. So there were other things being said. So imagine, so that's part of the panic that's setting in now. You know, there was one quote about screaming that people were going to be killed. I mean, so now you have those elements. It's not just directed at Jonathan Khan. Now it's directed at the whole plane. that that is another reason why he was probably taped down and restrained when she starts saying those things 30,000 feet in the air, if it's true that he said them.

And again, they said women and children were nearby in first class and there's nowhere to escape. So, first of all, I got this is the most important thing of the show. I want to say this, children should never be in first class. Yeah, I agree. Put him a wasted seat. Put him in steerage, ladies and gentlemen. I didn't travel first class until I was like 50 years old. So come on.

Why are these spoiled kids in first class? Look, as usual, only half joking. But when somebody starts screaming, the plane is going to go down. That's like some people know the limits of free speech, right? The Supreme Court years ago decided that free speech does not extend to being able to scream fire in a crowded theater. Because if you do that, you're endangering people.

That's the case here. If you're on a plane and you start screaming, the plane's going down, the plane's going down, you are creating potentially a very dark, difficult situation. So it's so good to have you on ability to get more information on what happened because this is, I mean,

what Jonathan said in the program we did together, I wasn't satisfied. I thought there's more. We ran out of time, but I thought there's got to be more. Like, why was this guy taped to the seat? Who were the guys that left in? And, I mean, I got to say, like,

I can't think of many things less pleasant than the idea of having to sit on some dude's lap for an hour to restrain him. Yeah, I mean, it's absolutely, it's absolutely wild. You know, Juan said that he really felt like he had to get up once he saw the strangling go on, whether or not it was legitimate strangling, pretend strangling, like, once they saw that,

that was when he got out of his seat and, you know, really pulled the victim away, which would be Jonathan, and then they took control. But yeah, it does sound very unpleasant. And honestly, again, like, you wonder what happens at a situation if nobody stands up? I mean, now they're having this alter-gat, like, where would that have gone and what would have happened? I think it could have been much more chaotic in the end. So grateful that those two guys stood up.

I was going to say, I mean, there have been situations in New York City where I have almost left in, like something happened. before I had to leap in. But, you know, again, as a man, you feel like, this is my job. If there's nobody else around, I got to do something. And I just think that, you know, there usually are, you know, men's men, you know,

manly men kind of looking over in situations like this who are ready to leap up. But usually they don't have to leap up. But in this case, they did. And thank God for them. It's just so amazing. Is there anything else we want to, to talk about on this subject or shall we talk about the other many things that you're covering

in your life as a reporter of the supernatural? Yeah, we can move out of the other things. The only last thing I will say, I think this is important. Their objective was restraint and de-escalation. And I think that that's an important thing. When you are in these situations, God forbid, that obviously you do whatever you have to do to protect somebody, but that, you know, you want to restrain and de-escalate, not, you know, they were like, we never wanted to inflict violence on him or hurt him. We wanted to just restrain him. So I think that that's just an important tip, you know, when these things do unfortunately happen. You've often heard me talk about the golden triangle of freedom, that intersection of faith, virtue, and liberty. And for that

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Have you heard of CBN? That's the Christian Broadcasting Network. Of course you've heard of it. Billy Hallowell, welcome back. I want to talk to you about whatever's on your mind. I think you were telling me earlier about a study that had been done on what people believe. I guess this is what Americans believe

about the supernatural. Yeah, you know, so we've been doing these, these films over at CBN called Investigating the Supernatural. We did a Miracles film, which you have me on to talk about. We did angels and demons, and next year, heaven and hell will come out, and that'll be focused on near-death experiences.

So we were talking with the American Bible Society. They do their state of the Bible. Every month they have a different chapter come out. Last year, and we were just saying, hey, we feel like people are not looking researchers, and sometimes they do, but it's very sporadic at what Americans actually believe about the supernatural.

Like, do Americans believe in, you know, demons? Do they believe in hell? Like, we've seen some data on hell in heaven, in God and the enemy, but not a ton. And what do they believe about miracles? So we partnered up with them, and they actually did research on this. And there will be this month a chapter

that is much broader than what I have in front of me right now. But I can tell you, there's some pretty fascinating research. Like, for instance, 64% of Americans believe that there are spiritual beings that exist beyond the natural world. 64%. That's six in 10 Americans believing that.

You know, I think that's really interesting to have that. And then we were able to kind of go through and they asked a number of questions about God, heaven, hell, all of that. And the most interesting thing to me is Americans are much more likely to believe in the positive things, right? Like God, 68% believe in God, okay? But if you compare that to Satan,

it's 55%. So, like, that doesn't totally shock me, but you see that carry through all of this, right? So I will say the majority of Americans believe in all of these things, right? Angels, demons, all of it. But let's talk about heaven. 62% believe in heaven. Now, hell, only 53% believe in hell. So you have almost like a 10 percentage gap between all of these things. And I think that's really, really interesting. But let me give you one more here. Angels and demons. 64% believe in angels.

And only 51%. That was the lowest percentage on these, believe in demons. So, but again, 51% it's still more than half of the country. They believe in this stuff. And so when people say things like, oh, you know,

you want to be in the mainstream, this stuff is weird. Well, the reality is the mainstream is actually to believe that all these things exist. That is actually the mainstream, according to this research. Well, this this fits into a paradigm that I've thought about and talked about quite a bit over the years.

This will make sense to most people that Satan does not have truth on his side, does not have reality on his side. So what is his big thing to lie, to try to fool us into believing something that's not true? So he tries to convince people that most people don't believe. believe in any of this stuff. That's, this is out of the mainstream. That, that's one lie, right? I have to say that everywhere I go, I mean, I wrote a book, as you know, titled Miracles, and I get more and more people who come up to me even now, all these years later. It's been over 10 years since the book came out. And I feel like my experience when I wrote that book ties into what you're talking about, I thought in my book Miracles, I'm going to write about miracles,

but then I want to tell miracle stories, and it's only going to be stories that either happen to me or people that I know and can vouch for, right? Not just some guy I met, and I don't know if is he credible or whatever. And so I would ask a lot of friends, have you ever had a miraculous experience?

Many of them had. Like, it was overwhelming how many of them had had some miraculous experience. And I thought, this is normal. Many people have stories. They've got all kinds of stories. Or even if they're not Christians, they've got some people.

some ghost story or something that they know. They saw this or they saw that or whatever. So this is normative. But then equally normative was bumping into people who would get a weird look on their face and they would answer, yeah, but I don't know if I want to talk about it because people will think I'm weird. And I thought, what a coward. I mean, I had several friends, I think too in particular, who had these outrageous

miraculous experiences, huge, amazing stories that you just want to say, wow, I want the world to hear your story. This will build people's faith. This is beautiful. And in both cases, they were like, well, I don't know if I want to share the story because, you know, my bosses might hear it. And they might, and I thought, how pathetic. Like, God gives you this outrageous gift of an astonishing miracle story. But then you're buying into this cultural narrative, which is a lie from the pit of hell, that, well, this is just a fringe thing. This is weird. Ladies and gentlemen, you know, it's one thing to say, why, I don't want to talk about seeing Bigfoot or UFOs.

You know, if you saw something, you should be able to talk about it. But here we are talking about God. And you would think that people would reason that, well, if God gave me this experience that he is with, me. But people are afraid to talk about this, to think about this. And one of the reasons I want to have you on this program is because I want people to understand, ladies and gentlemen, this is reality. This is not a reality for some people. It's either reality or it's not. And it is reality. There is a spiritual realm. I have had many absolutely undeniable spiritual experiences. I haven't written about most of them. I will eventually. But I've talked about it.

I've talked to innumerable friends that have had outrageous experiences with God and the demonic and whatever. This is simply reality. And it just fascinates me that we live in a world where because some people don't believe in it, the mainstream media and a lot of people and a lot of Christians shrink from talking about it. And I think that is part of the enemy's goal is to get us to be silent. Oh, 100%. I mean, look, back in the 1800s, there was a French poet who basically said that, you know, the greatest lie that Satan never perpetuated was that he doesn't exist essentially. And we've heard that again and again and again in pop culture. That line will come up.

I think the goal is the reason you have fewer people believing in evil or hell or demons is because we don't like to think about that. We don't want to believe that those things are real. But also, look at Hollywood. They've done such a good job of they put the horns on and they've integrated these weird satanic images into some of what they do, their music videos, their performances. And it almost makes Satan this hokey weird thing. And so I'm not shocked to see fewer people believe in that because I think that is the deception. But it is interesting, to your point, you brought up ghosts, right?

Well, if 64% of the country is saying they believe there are spiritual beings beyond the natural, that means that people are having experiences. I don't believe that people die and remain behind. I think we're dealing with demons and we're dealing with angels in the spiritual realm. But people are sensing, the point is almost seven out of ten people are sensing that there is something greater. And they're not just sensing it. They've either experienced it or somebody they know has.

And I think, I love that you brought up your miracles book. And by the way, I would just encourage people check our films out. If you go to CBN.com slash miracles, you can watch the miracles film. If you go to CBN.com slash supernatural, you can watch the Angels and Demons film, which I think is a great topic for this month, especially, coming up here. But just to dive into the miracle data, because this is so interesting. We specifically, the American Bible Society asked, you know, how many Americans had received a miraculous answer to prayer?

and 48% said that they had personally received a miraculous answer to prayer. Okay? So about half of the country, 35%, and this was such an interesting metric to me, said that they had witnessed or experienced a divine healing. So almost four in ten people had either witnessed or experienced what they believed was a divine healing. That was the wording that was used in this. And I mean, there's so many other pieces of this. For practicing Christians, these numbers were off the charts.

You know, here's the statement. I have prayed for something that was answered a miraculous way. 90% of practicing Christians answered yes to that. And even 22% of non-Christians answered yes to that. So these numbers are, they're pretty remarkable. And they show to your point, this is incredibly mainstream. This is not fringe. It's mainstream.

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And the enemy has gaslit us into being quiet about it. And you see, you see this everywhere. You know, you see this on a whole other, on the political thing where people say, well, I don't want to talk about the fact that I voted for Trump or because that's like a fringe thing. It's like, why are people so worried about what everybody thinks that much? It really is interesting because it does affect reality. And that's why, you know, Satan tries to silence people when it comes to the spiritual stuff is because it does affect reality. If everybody thinks that nobody with a brain talks about this stuff, then nobody will talk about it.

And that suits the devil perfectly. We need to talk about this. This is reality. And I really think that there's a battle in the heavenlies over this issue. And I think the information is coming out more and more and more and more. I'm just noticing it that, you know, there was, that there's more people talking about this, acknowledging it as real. I think that's an important thing.

Yeah, I think we're watching right now, Ephesion 6 come alive. We're watching, I mean, it's always been alive, right? The spiritual battle that we're in, the good and the evil. But it feels like there's a ramping up right now of all of it, right? So we're seeing these events like what we saw in the airplane. We're seeing all this chaos happen in the culture. you're seeing evil manifest itself in very overt ways, right? At least in my lifetime more than I have seen ever.

And at the same time, you're watching all these young people come to faith. You're watching young people find, you know, have curiosity in Jesus. There's a lot happening spiritually. There's a real openness. But I think it's part of that battle that is raging at the moment. One of the things in the data that I found so interesting was that 26% of Americans said they had experienced a spiritual attack. And I thought, you know, you could say that number seems low.

I think everybody has a different definition of what spiritual attack means probably. But I thought, you know, one in four people is not so low, actually. When you use that terminology, spiritual attack, 58% of Christians said they've experienced a spiritual attack. But the part of it, they were then asked, well, how do you respond to a spiritual attack? And 74% said they pray. The part that I actually found most disturbing was that only 15%. percent said that they meditate on or quote scripture. And I thought that is actually pretty troubling. If you have had a spiritual attack and only 15 percent are turning to scripture,

that is pretty concerning. And so that was something that we sort of walked away with. Like, wow, you know, we've got a low biblical worldview in this country. So that number is not shocking, but it is something we do need to improve on because we are all in a spiritual battle. That's what Ephesion 6 tells us. Well, as you said, I have seen the battle come into the open in a way in the last few years that we'd not seen before. I think I saw it really when COVID hit and the Biden administration took over. I saw things happening that made no sense in the natural. I thought this has no explanation except there's evil at the foot i mean there are there are things that are happening that i i don't know how else to explain them uh good and evil are becoming clearer uh they're more out

in the open i think that that's what happens when you have revival when the holy spirit is poured out the demons uh are they're they're flushed out basically and they're going to they're going to reveal themselves they prefer to be hiding but they're revealing themselves i think we're seeing this kind of thing um and it it's it's just where we are now. But the issue is that there are many churches that are too sophisticated to get into this. And that's bad, folks. You're supposed to be a spiritual warrior. You're supposed to understand how to use the sword of the scripture, the sword of the word. You're supposed to understand how to stand in the authority that you have in Christ Jesus. And there are many, many baby Christians.

clue about this going to churches where the pastors never talk about this. Yeah. Well, and that, and that is the key issue here, right? That we have so many churches, and maybe it's because they're afraid to look weird. Maybe it's because, you know, I don't know. There are a million factors, right? I think that we, though, as a church, and this is really convicting, we have given Hollywood, oh, here, take the baton. You guys go and frame how people should look at demons. You frame how people should look at evil. We'll turn it over to you and you can do your terribly untheological movies every year. And that is what people will walk away thinking that demons and evil are. Instead of the church stepping up and saying, hey, this is a part, we don't have to obsess over

evil, but it's a part of our faith, understanding that we're in this battle. I mean, you can't win a war you don't know you're in. And so you've got a generation of people who are, I mean, multiple generations of people who are fighting a battle. They don't even know they're fighting. And they have no chance of winning that if they're not equipped. And so the Bible's pretty clear, you be equipped by living like a Christian and acknowledging that it exists and understanding, I would bet there are way more than 26% of the population that have had spiritual attack. They just can't recognize it as that because they have not been taught to. Well, I mean, I remember being too sophisticated to buy into this myself. You know, I think that you need good teaching on it.

You need to see it. You need to understand this is part of reality. Folks, it's part of reality. You can't see atoms or molecules. Can you? No. You. No. You. you can't, but if you have a brain in your head, you know that they exist. It's important for us to do the math, to connect the dots logically. What do we believe? And, you know, for somebody to be foolish enough to say, well, if I can't see it, well, have you talked to people who've seen it? How many people have I talked to whom I know well, who have seen demonic stuff, who've seen angelic stuff, who've seen miracles, who've heard from God. It doesn't need to happen to you.

You can just have friends and relatives that tell you. And you know if they're making it up or you know the person well enough because there are people that maybe they exaggerate a little bit. But are they exaggerating 100% or are they just saying it in the way they would say it? You know, you have to read between the lines. But it seems to me completely unavoidable that this is a reality. The Bible says it's a reality. And again, what is the alternative?

The alternative is to believe the bleak lie that there is nothing but the material world, there is no God, your life is meaningless. That's the lie, folks. And if you really drill down into that bleak worldview, first of all, it's false. But even if you say, well, let me see, maybe that works for me, believing that there's nothing beyond this world.

If you're actually honest about it, it's unbearable. It's just, it's a preposterous way to live. So most people are kind of living between. They don't really want to face the reality of God, maybe, but they also don't want to face the reality that there is nothing. So they believe some hazy thing, you know, like be a good person, create your own meaning, whatever silliness that the culture is pushing. And it's the job of churches and pastors to speak clearly on these things.

I mean, if you've ever seen somebody possessed by. a demon or a demon cast out, you know you didn't just watch something psychotic. You know you didn't watch the person making it up. You know you didn't watch. There's a reality here. And I just think that it's why I have Ken Fish on so often to talk about this. We need to be honest about this. And again, if you're going to a church that's too sophisticated to get into this,

I don't know why you're wasting your time in that church. That's just, you know, my perspective. No, you're 100% right. and we need to challenge and encourage our pastors to be speaking up on this. How else do you make sense of Charlie Kirk's assassination, of the horrible events that we watch happen around us? This idea that we are fighting in us versus them battle,

you know, as well as I do, because I cover politics as much as, you know, it's funny, every time we talk, we're talking about this stuff, and I'm glad because it's so important. We need to be talking about this stuff, but it impacts the politics, it impacts the culture, it impacts our lives.

Like, we don't have any proper framework without it. And so our pastors need to step up to the plate and start having those really important conversations with congregations to equip people to understand. And so that for me, once my mind opened and I became not too sophisticated too to understand these things, it really transformed the way I see everything. And so it's incredibly important that we do that. And it really does affect absolutely everything. I keep bringing up my book on the American Revolution. I was just amazed really, as I did the research, I thought, America coming into existence was God's idea in history.

The alternative, I mean, there's some people that can't buy that idea. Like, I guess it leads in directions they don't like. So they prefer to drown in nuance and just make it sound like, well, well, well, like they don't, they're just afraid of actually, you know, biting into anything solid. And the point is that, yes, you can go too far. You can oversimplify things, but you can undersimplify things. You can be drowning in nuance and nuance and nuance and nuance and not really see things clearly. And that's part of what we're talking about here, is that there is a spiritual realm. There are people who are so focused on that that they lose sight of everything else.

That's not good. But to deny this realm and to deny what God is trying to prepare each one of us to deal with this realm, to live in that realm, to be a part of what God is doing, standing against evil. What does that mean in your life? What does that look like? That's why we're here on the planet. So this is not like extra credit.

This is why we're here. And if you're some kind of person of faith, or even if you're just curious, let's simply be honest. Let's look at the facts. And it's Billy why I love talking to you because you, you know, you devoted a lot of your life to this. And what are some of the shows before we go where people can find you or where can people find you and your investigations into these things?

Absolutely. The main place right now go to CBN.com slash supernatural. You can also go to Billy Hollowell.com and check the documentaries out. We go deep on fact. I'm a big fact person. I'm just like you. I don't want, if you tell me that something is happening, I want you to prove it to me. I want you to show me the proof.

And so it's been fun to be able to, when you look deep enough, you find the proof for these cases, whether it's miracles, angels and demons, whatever it is, the proof is. the proof is out there. There's tons of it, and God does not call us to be afraid of it, folks. He wants us to stand in the authority that he's given us. He stands with us. He wants to train us to stand in that authority so that the demons are afraid of you because you bring Jesus with you.

They're scared of Jesus. It's important we understand this stuff. We're not supposed to be scared of the demons. They're supposed to be scared of us because Jesus lives inside us. And if we know that and know how to walk in that, you know, that's really the only way to live. It's he died on the cross so that we could live that full life with him, in him. Billy Hallowell, great to have you as our guest. Thanks for coming on.

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