The Eric Metaxas Show - #224 - John West

Episode Date: October 16, 2026

Karl Marx is often remembered as an economist who wanted to help the poor. But John G. West of Discovery Institute says that as a young man, Marx wrote dark poetry about forfeiting heaven: "My soul, once true to God, is chosen for hell." Eric and John discuss why communism isn't merely wrong economics but, they argue, spiritually anti-Christian from A to Z, and why most Christian colleges won't teach students its history.West tells the forgotten story of "human zoos," including the young African man the Bronx Zoo put in a cage with chimpanzees as a "missing link," and how the eugenics crusade it fed came to America before Nazi Germany. Eric shares how his own mother escaped Stalinist East Germany at 17, and West recalls his piano teacher in Soviet-occupied Poland, who was forced to sing hymns to Stalin: "The Nazis would just kill you. The Marxist utopia wanted your soul."They also discuss Cornerstone University's new core curriculum, The Story of Everything film on science and God, West's books Stockholm Syndrome Christianity and Endowed by Our Creator, and how to make sure your giving isn't funding the drift.Watch Human Zoos on YouTube and learn more at humanzoos.org and discovery.org.⭐ ORDER NOW:Revolution: The Birth of the Greatest Nation in the History of the World📕: https://a.co/d/0ir3NlapTODAY'S SPONSORS:🪙 Grace Precious Metals: https://www.metaxasmetals.com/🛏️ MyPillow — Save BIG with code ERIC: https://www.mypillow.com/☀️ Chapter -- Honest, fast, and free Medicare plan guidance: https://askchapter.com/metaxas/🦅 Patriot Mobile -- America's ONLY Christian Conservative Wireless Provider: https://patriotmobile.com/partners/metaxas🏛️ Socrates in the City CRUISE: https://socratesinthecity.com/cruise/00:00 John West and Cornerstone University04:57 Why Communism Is Anti-Christian06:56 The Body Count and Hymns to Stalin09:32 Eric's Mother Escaped East Germany at 1712:30 The Story of Everything and Intelligent Design15:19 Darwinism Inside Christian Colleges27:20 Human Zoos: A Man in a Cage at the Bronx Zoo30:01 Karl Marx's Satanic Poetry37:05 Where Your Giving Goes and the Charlie Kirk Test43:08 What John West Is Working On Now- - -LIKE AND SUBSCRIBE: https://www.youtube.com/@ericmetaxas#EricMetaxas #TheEricMetaxasShow #News #PoliticsChapter and its affiliates are not connected with or endorsed by any government entity or the federal Medicare program. Chapter Advisory, LLC represents Medicare Advantage HMO, PPO, and PFFS organizations and stand alone prescription drug plans that have a Medicare contract. Enrollment depends on the plan’s contract renewal. While we have a database of every Medicare plan nationwide and can help you to search among all plans, we have contracts with many but not all plans. As a result, we do not offer every plan available in your area. Currently we represent 50 organizations which offer 18,160 products nationwide. We search and recommend all plans, even those we don’t directly offer. You can contact a licensed Chapter agent to find out the number of products available in your specific area. Please contact Medicare.gov, 1-800-Medicare, or your local State Health Insurance Program (SHIP) to get information on all of your options.

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He's with the Discovery Institute. He's the author of many books. He's been my guest here. and many times at Socrates in the city. And he is also affiliated as I am affiliated with the great university in Grand Rapids, Cornerstone University. John West, welcome back. Eric, thanks for having me back. I got to tell you, I was in Grand Rapids at Cornerstone twice over the last month.

I love Cornerstone. They are just heroes there. And they weren't. You know, just a few years ago, folks, they were going wobbly. And the new president is just a hero. Gerson, Riano, Moreno, Rionio. He has really boldly and courageously said, we are going to get this university on the right track.

It's going to be an actual Christian university that stands bravely on all the issues. And because that's so rare, I talk about it. Because it's so rare among Christian universities, which aren't really Christian or wobbly Christian, which is fake Christian, the Cornerstone stands out.

It's why I feel honored to be affiliated with them officially as a distinguished presidential scholar. You John West are officially affiliated with them. They are already sticking their necks out. Cornerstone is sticking its neck out by being affiliated with radicals like John West and Eric Mattaxas. Yeah, it is amazing. It is rare.

And I'd say for parents and families who are really thirsting for a genuine Christian education, both about Western civilization but also the influence of Christianity and Christianity in America and Christianity and how it opposes communism, which I think we'll probably get to, Cornerstone is one of the very, very, very few places that you're going to find that. And so this is really outstanding. I have to say, for someone who had been in Christian higher education, and you know, I wrote a book very critical of a lot of things happening called Stockholm Syndrome Christianity, it's so refreshing to actually be connected to a university that is unapologetically Christian and on the worldview questions, not just on personal piety, which of course is really important, but it's also that Christianity and its principles have an impact on the full world. What, what, you know, Francis Schaefer, when I grew up, said a lot that Christianity is true for all of life. It's not just true on Sundays. It's true for everything. And that's what you're

finding at Cornerstone University. And again, it is unique. And this is the place, if you want your kids to be molded into, with a deep Christian worldview, this is one of the very few places in America where you can have that happen. It's funny. I just did an interview with Michael Clary, who's a pastor in the Cincinnati area. He has a book out called Loser Theology, Why the Week will not inherit the earth. And it really, it's the same thing over and over. It's what you're talking about. It's what I discussed with him. It's what I wrote about in my book, Letter to the American Church. Bad theology has crept in into Christian institutions, so into a lot of evangelical churches and into Christian high churches. And into Christian high. education. And they have really lost the way. They've really lost the way. So suddenly it's a big brave thing for Cornerstone to have a conference, which they just did, talking about the evils of communism. I was privileged to be there. They had a wisdom conversation. This is a couple of weeks ago. But the whole thing was about explaining, you know, or talking with with guests about

the idea of what is communism and why is it anti-Christian? It's not Christian-adjacent or sort of or anti-Christian adjacent. No, it is boldly anti-Christian. The idea is behind communism. But the fact a Cornerstone is willing to take this on in the wisdom conversation is suddenly a big, brave thing, because most of these so-called Christian institutions of higher education, they will not go there. They kind of say, well, you know, we're going to, we're not going to get involved in something controversial like that because there's there's some good in communism and socialism and you know we don't want to be labeled fascists it's just it's just amazing that we're living in a day when we have to even have this conversation yeah and even the the several of the better christian institutions

they won't if they're not imbibing and promoting a warmed over version of marks or socialism at the very least they're not counteracting it and and i'd say in our current culture is not enough to simply be neutral on this. I mean, the Marxist, Leninist, socialist whole project is anti-Christian from A to Z. And so if you're not preparing in the current culture the students as to why this is wrong and how damaging it is, you're basically seeding it. So it's not just, so it's not just, you know, Christian schools that are actually promoting actively. It's those who are passively promoting by not actually informing them. And so at corners Stone, they had this great event, which where you had, you know, a distant, I wasn't there, but I

was able to watch it and saw your introduction and some of the sharing. You had, you know, a distant who grew up in North Korea sharing about how, you know, basically her body and her soul wasn't her own. You know, they were, the commons have tried to control everything. Then someone from, distant from Mao's China. And I have to, and then a scholar of, you know, the Soviet Union. And so they're actually teaching kids this. And I want to say that in the new core program that I'm helping to design for Cornerstone on Christianity and the American experience, the rise of Marx and communism and all the bitter harvest of sorrow that it created in the world is front and center.

You have three courses. In the second of the course, students will actually read Marx and see the poisonous fruit from his own mouth. And then in the third course, they're going to see the rise of totalitarianism, both national socialism, but also Stalin and Lenin and communism and Mao's China. And I think so few people, even adults really understand even the body count. I mean, I was just re-looking up last night before we, because I want to make sure I got some of these right. But, you know, Mao, they attribute 40 to 80 million deaths in peacetime to that. Stalin six to 60 million deaths. Some of them they tried to hide so you can't tell exactly.

And on my mom's side, I actually had ancestors who came from Ukraine. Fortunately got out before the communist took over. And, you know, in just the Ukrainian famine, the enforced man-made famine by Stalin, you had at least four, maybe as many as 10 million people killed, starved to death as enemies of the state. The body count makes everything else pale. And again, that alone, but let alone the challenging, you know, when I grew up, I had a music teacher, piano teacher, who grew up in Poland during, you know, 1930s World War II.

And she was in part of Poland that first was taken over by the Nazis and then was, well, first it actually was taken over by the Soviet Union, then the Nazis. and the Soviet Union, when they took over Poland, they put pictures of Stalin in all of the schools, and they had to sing hymns of praise to Stalin. They wanted to, you know, the Nazis would just kill you. They'd kill you because they thought you were dirt. The Marxist utopia wanted your soul.

And that always stuck with me, the things that she shared from when she was a teenager, and then she and her family was able to escape. after the war and come to the United States. And students need to know this. They don't understand that these bad ideas have bad consequences, and it's like playing with fire. And so cornerstone in things like the wisdom conversations

that was just a really wonderful event, eye-opening event, for students, but in their core courses, every student is actually going to learn the body count, I'll say, and the spiritual. depravity of communism. So your decaf oat milk extra but not piping hot, four pumps of caramel, no sugar, small latte, and a large cup. That will be 10 minutes.

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Well, again, this is, you know, like radical folks, but if you're not a radical, you're playing for the other team at this point. Let's stop pretending there's a middle ground. There's not. fooled into that, you're in a very bad place. You know, it's funny because when I was at Cornerstone at the Wisdom conversation, I gave some opening remarks before we went to this amazing panel. And by the way, Yomni Park, I interviewed her at length for Socrates in the city a couple

of years ago. Folks, you need to hear her story. Go to Socrates in the city, our YouTube channel or Socratesandcity.com. it is a story that it will change your life to hear her story. It is as radical. It's almost unbelievable, but you will see it's true. But so Yomi Park was there, whatever. But in my opening comments, I referenced my mom.

Now, I'm in Connecticut today because I'm visiting my mom. My mom's 92. She grew up in Germany, which was taken over, like Poland, by the Soviet Union, became East Germany, the part of Germany where she was from. She lived through this. She lived through this indoctrination in, school and it's what made her say, I will not put up with this. I will escape. My mother escaped East, communist East Germany, Stalinist communist East Germany at age 17 to come to the West. And she made it.

And by the grace of God, it's the only reason I exist is because she escaped. But when I think of how many people have experienced this firsthand, they've told their stories. Most Americans are unaware of this, which is why I just applaud Cornerstone for having the wisdom conversation. for inviting people like Yomi Park and so many others over the years. And now and going forward, this is vitally important, ladies and gentlemen. This is vitally important. And again, the fact that Cornerstone is they are teaching this. They have a core curriculum, which you, John West, have helped them to develop,

that they're basically saying, if you come here and you attend this school, you will get this stuff. This is not, you know, for people in that major. No, everybody who comes here is going to get the basics of why a Christianity is true, why Western values, American values are beautiful and important, and we need to understand where they come from. We need to understand where the bad ideas come from. We're going to read the original document so you can see, as you just said, John, you know, from Marx's mouth or pen, where these bad ideas come from, why they're bad. if you don't understand this, you are ripe for deception and why do we have, you know, lunatics are running for the Senate in Michigan and winning the mayoralty in New York and other

places? Because most people are unaware of this stuff, but when the church is unaware of it, when you have Christian colleges unwilling to stand up against this, now you're staring into the abyss because that's, that's kind of where we are. And so now since we're talking about Cornerstone and since you and I are both involved with Cornerstone, I want to mention they have another conference coming up, an apologetics conference, but also they screened the story of everything, which I guess that comes out of the Discovery Institute,

which is what you're affiliated with as well, John. Yeah, so Cornerstone is right down the line, not just standing against communism or standing in a prior conversation. We talked about all students are going to learn about the history of the American Republic and the Christian foundations of America. But in the area of science, you and I both know,

a lot of people have tried to hijack science for atheism. I don't think they weren't successful, but certainly there's some pop cultural ideas that somehow science is anti-faith. And as you know, I know you've interviewed many times by friend and colleague Steve Meyer, whose book, Return of the God Hypothesis and other books, and your own book about science and God make the point that, in fact, science far from being

anti-God actually upholds the idea that there's a creator. In fact, points to a creator. But so few Christian colleges, I can tell you as being a, I won't name this Christian college, but where I was for 12 years, where I was tenured faculty, the idea that science points to intelligence design or a creator was the kiss of death among faculty there. And so they certainly didn't tell it to students. But Cornerstone is making a signature part of their science education. And they have a big science program of the teaching about the evidence for intelligent design. And so last week, as part of that, they had a conference or event where they screened this film that was out in theaters this year called The Story of Everything, which is about how both physics, fine-tuning, biology, origin of life, the incredible.

exquisite functional complexity points towards God. And so they screen that for their students. And actually my colleague geologist Casey Luskin was out there and physicist John Bloom to help lead the discussion. And they're making that a signature part of their science program. And that, again, is even more unique. Unfortunately, sadly, many Christian colleges who run away from that and sort of teach over a warmed over type of Darwinism. And so that's another thing. And then you're right, their theology program is doing an apologetics conference that all be out there for it with Doug Grutais, one of the great Christian apologists of our time

who has a chair or is a professorship at Cornerstone. And we'll together be doing this two-day event about the Christian faith and apologetics and all be doing some of the science parts of been actually talking about intelligence. design and also the corrosive impacts of Darwinism. And so that's in early November. So if people are out in Michigan, November, I think is 13th, 14th. Please come out for that. We'd love to see you there.

And I've interviewed Casey Luskin also at Socrates in the city, folks. You got to, I just, I feel like I want to challenge my audience that there are a lot of great resources out there. But if you don't avail yourself of them, you know, you're not going to be able to to stand. You're not going to be able to understand what is going on and you're not going to be able to stand against the lies that are coming from every angle. There's so many books that I want to shove at people. Your book, Stockholm Syndrome Christianity, folks, this describes everything we're talking about, how vile ideas have crept into Christian institutions. I spoke to Michael Clary recently about this,

about his book Loser Theology. Stockholm Syndrome Christianity shows what we've talked about on this program. This is the church opening the doors to lies and taking in just enough to fatally compromise them on all kinds of issues. We've seen it again and again. And there are tons of people listening to this podcast who go to churches that go along with us, who send their kids to universities, they think they're Christian universities. They go along with these lies. the lie of Darwinism.

I mean, I have to say, you talk about cowardice. It would be courageous to stand against these lies, but there are a lot of people, they just want to go along. They're no different than the people pushing these lies in the first place by going along with them. And you mentioned my book is atheism dead. I mean, I was astonished. When I discovered some of this stuff, I said, I've got to put it into a book. I have to put it in a book.

We need more people to know the truth about science. First of all, it's Christianity that gave us science, ladies and gentlemen. It's not at odds with science or it's not merely compatible with science. No, it gave us science. So this lie that we've all, it's been pushed on us, that science is somehow at odds with our biblical fake. That's a lie. And you need to understand what a vile lie it is. So here we have Cornerstone University, bravely bringing in people like Casey Luskin and John West to talk about this.

The story of everything, where is that available? Can people see that on Amazon Prime? Yep, it's on Amazon Prime, and they're getting new distribution deals all the time. So, yes, Amazon Prime is one of the easiest places. If you're really old school, I know there's some people who still like Blu-Rays or things, you actually can go to the story of everything, film website, and you can actually get some of those. But streaming, it's available on a lot of different platforms, especially Amazon Prime.

And until my TV series comes out is a. atheism dead, you need to see this, folks. Everybody in America needs to be aware. These are facts. This is, again, this is not some crazy theory. These are true, this is basically the true version of things, which has been kept from you because we live in a secular culture and because much of the evangelical church has participated in pushing along the lies of a secular culture. John, you just very carefully didn't mention Claremont. We will never mention. them on this program, but there are tons of colleges, whether it's Wheaton or all these, it's a Christian college. Yes, but in these Christian colleges, they are, they've opened the

door to lies. And they have people on their faculty that are going along with lies and pushing these lies on your kids as though it's okay to be a Christian and to believe in Darwinian evolution. That's insane. And the more you know about it, the more you realize it's insane. It's preposterous. And we have to talk about this. You mentioned Doug. Grote Heist. He's another hero who teaches. He's a professor at Cornerstone. And I was with him recently when I was over there. And I thought, there are so few that are standing bravely. So I say to people, folks, you've got to be aware of all these books and all these projects and all these things that are going on because there are many in the evangelical world. They're just drifting along with the culture.

that is, I don't know if it's almost better to be a bold atheist than to be drifting along with the culture within the confines of something that thinks of itself as evangelical Christianity. It's more horrible to me to be drifting along like that. We know what Jesus talks about in Revelation that if you're lukewarm, spits you out of his mouth. And so, but here's the good news. You know, the good news is, first of all, God is sovereign and we have the truth on our side or we hope to be on the side of the truth. And so there are things that you can do. If you're intentional about how you raise your kids, if you're intentional about the things, the books, the media, I think that you imbibed, you can, even in this corrupted culture, you can build something good with your family, with your children, with your people in your church. And so it just takes some intentionality.

And so, you know, yes, you need to recognize what's out there. But don't despair. Our God is ultimately in control. And if we're faithful in following, he's actually laid down the way, and we actually can build a good, healthier culture and a church that actually proclaims the truth in a loving but very truthful manner. And we can be that example. And that Christians have been that in the past. Many Christians are still that today, the faithful remnant. We just wish the faithful remnant got a little less of a remnant and larger. And so if you are a parent or even if you're not a parent, a grandparent, don't despair. The issue here is not to get you to despair because God is on the throne. But he does call for us to be faithful stewards. And if we are, the good thing

is God is actually raising up. And I want to be honest, Cochern is not the only good Christian University, there are some other ones, but it is a very rare one. And what's happening there is dynamic and unique. God is actually raising up faithful voices in our culture now. And all of us need to pay attention to that and support that. And that's something positive we can do. One thing that's been driving me nuts on the right are all the grifters. People who call themselves patriots and Christians while being anything. But this is why I'm so happy to partner with a company that actually lives by their words, Patriot Mobile.

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I was just last week at Liberty University. That's another one of the tiny, tiny handful folks of places that is standing tall, standing strong. But you're right, John, to encourage people. Folks, we're on the verge of great revival. You can see it because we've been through these dark seasons, but there's pushback now. People are standing, as I said, Cornerstone University just a handful of years ago was drifting along with the zeitgeist. but their new president over the last five years has turned it around dramatically

and he's invited radicals like John West and Eric Mataxis and Yomi Park and others and I have to say I get excited about it and I also want to say I'm excited about all the things that are happening I mentioned we're making a TV series

based on my book as Atheism Dead there is this amazing film the story of everything which is available folks you've got to take advantage of these things write it down the story of everything rented,

watch on Amazon Prime, whatever it is, watch it with your family. I say the same thing about my book on Bonhoeffer, the film on Bonhoeffer is available. You've got to watch it with your kids. You've got to watch it with your family. Invite your neighbors. Why? Because

this is a model of someone standing against the false church, standing against weak, woke in its time, Christianity and saying, I will stand. We need to remind ourselves. And so I believe God is allowed us to create all these resources which didn't exist 10 or 20 years ago.

The Discovery Institute has been heroic. You need to know about the Discovery Institute and all the folks I've mentioned. John, your book Stockholm Syndrome, Christianity, which lays this stuff out. There are all these resources. I think of our friend Megan Basham's book, Shepherds for Sale, another vital resource. I think of my book, a letter to the American church, trying to reason with pastors along the lines we're discussing, hey, I think you've missed this.

I think you're missing this. We're living in a time where lots of Christian institutions have been taken over, as you say in your book, Stockholm Syndrome Christianity, and we have to talk about it. We have to explain how it happened, and we have to beg people, folks, get out of there, recalibrate. You've been drifting in the wrong direction. Pretty soon it's going to be too late. You need to get back to where you were. Even in my book on the American Revolution, it's like,

how long have you drifted with this lie that you can have liberty on the American model, you know, from the French Enlightenment. So like we have to recalibrate. We have to get back to understanding these, but there's just a host of resources and places that are getting it right. So I want to rejoice, John, with you that there are, there have been leaders, there have been voices. There's all kinds of great stuff being produced as we speak. Now, you mentioned that there's a conference coming up in November at Cornerstone, which is an apologetics conference, you said with. So your decaf oatmeal extra but not piping hot, four pups of caramel, no sugar, small latte, and a large cup. That will be 10 minutes.

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You can get the good stuff for less, the stuff that lasts. Because there's no point in tightening your belt if it's just going to break when you do. Get the good stuff in store at Marshalls today. Doug Grotized and myself and I opened to the public. And it's a great chance for people to come and see what Cornerstone is about. And I think they've done this in the past. They may try to do it yearly, but I'm going there this year. And so in early November, and so you can find about it on their website.

And if you really want to know, Doug Grutize is going to be talking. about how Christ really is the way and how, you know, we know that. And I'll be talking about the evidence for, you know, design and purpose and through science. And also the negative side, the corrosive. If you think this is just a, you know, abstract conversation about Darwinism, you need to come hear my lecture about the actual consequences to society for that worldview. So there's both the positive, but then there is that if you don't follow the truth, ideas do have consequences both good and bad. So it should be a great event.

So you're speaking at this conference. Now, listen, a lot of people aren't going to be able to get to Cornerstone for this conference. There's a lot of Dutch people in that neck of the woods. Maybe you're Dutch phobic. You don't want to go there. Well, let me tell you something. There are other resources.

For example, I see right behind you, John West, the poster for your film Human Zoos, which actually is exactly what you just said. It explains this is the lie. extension of Darwinism, ladies and gentlemen. So, John, can you talk a little bit about that? Because you talked on this program in the past about it, but what an amazing thing. Talk about it, please. If we think that we're just another animal, that has consequences.

And we actually, the leaders of science actually put people on display in enclosures during world's fairs as if they were zoo creatures. And then in one horrific case in New York in the Bronx Zoo, they actually put a young African man on display in a cage with chimpanzees as a missing link. And hundreds of thousands of people visited. It was the toast of the town. New York Times praised it.

I mean, it was awful. And it came out of this Darwinian worldview. And so my documentary talks about that. It talks about Darwin's own writings of where some of this comes from. And also talks about the U.S. Genics Crusade, which was in the name of Darwinism, let's breed a better master race. And many people know that that impacted Nazi Germany.

But it impacted even before Nazi Germany here in the United States. The world's first eugenics laws, forest realization, took place not in Germany, but in the early 1900s in Indiana. So people need to know that history. And so that's what that documentary is about. And actually, if your kids are students at Cornerstone, that documentary is going to be part of the core program they're going to be assigned to watch it so i mean look it should all this stuff that we've mentioned should be required uh required for for high

schoolers around the country like every high schooler needs to know this stuff is true and it needs to to be able to to refer to it and so the film human how can people see human zoos if they want to see the film go on youtube That's probably best, and more than 5 million people have seen it on YouTube without virtually no promotion on our part. It was sort of went viral. And so that would be a way to do that. There's a full website with educational materials on human zoos.org. But let me, as we probably are coming to conclusion, let me bring this back.

Some people may think, well, you know, I don't want to be involved in culture of politics because, you know, my Christianity is just going on Sundays or, you know, doing in my personal life. and these other things, they're political or something. Well, let me say, there are deeply spiritual components. Let's bring it back to where we were discussing the beginning of communism. Many people don't know. One of the formative books that I read as a college student was a little book by Richard Vermbrand, who wrote most famously Tortured for Christ, how he was tortured as a Christian in Romania.

But then one of the last books he wrote was called Marx and Satan. And then historian Paul Kanger has had a more academic, basically version of that, where it turns out that Marx, this idea that many Christians today think is, oh, well, you know, wasn't he trying to love his neighbor and stuff? No, he wasn't. Marks from a young man was obsessed with Satan. And he wrote this really dark poetry. I just want to quote from one where it talks about this character, thus heaven I've forfeited. I know it full well. My soul, once true to God is chosen for hell. Marx, if you read his poetry, and actually if you're at Cornerstone and the court, you're

going to read a few of his dark poems, this comes from the pit of hell. There is a spiritual war going on, and that some of these things that people think, oh, well, you know, Christians have different ideas on this. Marxism isn't so bad. You can be a Christian Marxist. No, you can't. And if you understand where some of this spiritual, comes from, there is a deep spiritual component to this. And including in the, and that's why in so many

communist countries, they attack Christians and want to replace God with the state. And that comes from the darkness in Marx's own heart from the very beginning. But the light of Christ is better than that. The light of Christ overcomes that. Yeah, it's interesting. It's one of the reasons I've told people never, ever to see the Exorcist film because it falsely presents it as though the devil could win or the devil is as powerful as God. We need to understand folks. First of all, don't see the film. Take my word for it.

It is there's a level of evil in it that's actually frightening. It's so terrible. But to present it as though, well, there's different points of view. No, no, no, God is God. God created the universe. And the devil can only lie and cheat and bend the truth and steal the truth and twist it. We need to know what is true. We need to know what it's true.

So John and I have been sharing a lot of resources, a lot of places that, you know, I would say if you don't avail yourself of these things, your life is going to be hard. You know, this is kind of like you got to eat your vegetables sometimes. And some of the books we've mentioned in things, maybe it's not the easiest thing to read, but is your pastor familiar with this stuff? Is this being taught in the Christian school where your kids go? These ideas matter. These ideas are very, very important.

You mentioned Paul Tangor. Is he at Hillsdale? I think he's at Hillsdale. I always forget where he is. Grove City, I think. Grove City, sorry. I mean, another hero. He's written this book, you know,

talking about the satanic roots of Marxism and Karl Marx. Folks, you need to know this. How come most people don't know this? How come most people don't know most of what we're talking about here? Is it true? Is it just some Christian version? No, these things are true. It's like I keep saying that with my book on the American Revolution.

This is not a Christian version of the American Revolution. This is history. It's not Christian history. It's history. And we need to be familiar with actual history, actual truth. But the left has so infiltrated the church and the whole world. that even those of us who are Christians have been deceived. So we have a job to do.

We need to get back to True North. We need to recalibrate, as I say. So, you know, I've been giving assignments here. I've mentioned a number of resources and films. I mentioned human zoos. There's a website, human zoos.org, but the film is on YouTube. It is astonishing. We mentioned, I mentioned the Bonhofer films on Amazon Prime.

Folks, take advantage of this. We mentioned the story of everything. Watch it with your family. There are so many great books. We mentioned Stockholm Syndrome, Christianity. We've got to familiarize ourselves, folks, with what has been happening. And I know there are so many Christians that are, they're oblivious. They have no idea of what we're talking about here.

They haven't heard of half of these resources. You know, they don't, they simply don't know. And that's why I do this program and a lot of what I do. John, you've just been heroic in all this stuff. You and I recently were on the Jeremy Boring podcast talking about some of this stuff. There are folks trying to get the truth out and we need your help of folks. And I'll say this as well. If there are people out there with money, if God's given you money, I think of all the places

where you could donate your money, where you can be tremendously helpful, a Cornerstone University is one of those places. I mean, I was there recently. I said, I had this idea, as you know, John, they have this beautiful small lake at the center of the campus. And I said, you should have rowboats on that lake. Like it would be so picturesque and beautiful. And one of the leaders there said, oh, well, if you know of a donor who wants to go. And I said, well, I don't, I couldn't think of anybody. I said, but I need to mention it because it would be so beautiful. students, I could just see it in the spring. You know, people would propose marriage.

I guarantee you on the lake in one of these robots. But it's so beautiful they've got this lake at the center of the campus. And they need our help. A lot of the folks we're talking about the Discovery Institute, Socrates in the city. If you've been blessed with money, God wants to use it for his purposes. So whatever that means, if it means buying copies of the books we've mentioned or buying copies of the DVDs or whatever. But we've got to get this stuff out there.

We've got to spread it. That's always the issue is that there's so many people, they have no idea of what we're talking about. And so many pastors, they have no idea. They've never heard of the book Stockholm Syndrome Christianity. They never heard of letter to the American church. They're just going along with the zeit guys drifting along. That's the problem, folks.

So your voice, you can be. a voice. John, before we go, any final thoughts, anything we haven't given sufficient. Well, I think you raised at the end, if you're a person of means, we're all called to be stewards of what God has given us. I will say one of the tragedies of the last few decades are the number of even sincere Christians who are giving to charities or educational institutions. Maybe they graduated from a generation ago that they don't realize have gone in a different direction. And so apart from, you know, the other things happening, God calls us to be faithful.

And that includes with our time, talents, and treasure. And so if ask yourself, this is one of the things I do in Stockholm, Senator Christianity, whoever you're giving, ask it, make sure that you aren't doing harm. Make sure that wherever you're donating your money and time and talent and treasure, that it's going to promote the light, promoting something good, because we will all be held accountable for how we use our resources. And whether you give it to Cornerstone,

which would be a great place to give it to, but I mean, more generally, where are you giving your time, talent, and treasure? Do an inventory personally as a family. And how sure are you of the places you're writing checks to are actually part of the solution rather than part of the problem? And I will tell you that for many very devout Christian families, really sad,

that they have warm fuzzies about from 20 years ago. And they don't realize those institutions are doing the exact opposite today. And they're enabling it. That, to me, is the saddest thing. You know, if people go woke or bad, you know, they're wrong. But for people who aren't that who are enabling it without really knowing it, that's a tragedy. Well, I think of that I don't think I'm even mentioned it on this program. We've just started, we're calling it the Metaxus Foundation because we got so many projects

along these lines. I want to turn, we are turning much of my, many of the books that I've written into a curriculum for homeschooling and all kinds of stuff. Folks, we all, we need your help with this kind of stuff. I wasn't going to mention it on this program, but this is important. We are trying to do very, very important things. So, you know, obviously So Socrates and the city, I have mentioned on the program, but there's so many different projects and things. If you're not clear on what you're doing with your money. Think for a moment because there are so many institutions, as you just said, John, that they were fine 20 years ago, 30 years ago.

They have drifted. God forbid you subscribe to Christianity today in this day and age. God forbid you would give a dime to Calvin. We even know that places like Baylor, Biola, they have really opened the door to all kinds of horrible stuff. And it doesn't mean that everyone in leadership there is evil, but a lot of them have gone along with it. They've gone along with really bad ideas. You need to be aware of it. It's why I say what I say in this program. I hope I say it generously, graciously, but it does break my heart to see human lives are affected. Kids are affected. People are affected by this stuff. So it's not

that it's like, well, it doesn't matter. There are no victims. There are victims of this. There are young people that you think that by going to that church or by going to that college, you know, they got the truth. No, according to John and according to me and according to a lot of people we know, they're not getting the truth. So it's why I speak as strongly as I do because I've seen the,

I've seen the horror, basically. I've seen lives destroyed. I know that's even like in my case. I mean, did my parents dream that, you know, when they send me off to Yale University, that I would be pumped full of Marxist lunacy,

leftist, atheistic lunacy. Do they think that that can happen? Well, that was back in the 80s. All those bad ideas have trickled down into Christian universities, into the culture at large. All you have to do is turn on PBS. I keep, whenever I give interviews on my Revolution book, I talk about if you've had the misfortune of seeing Ken Burns' PBS series,

like that's the bummer leftist version. of the American Revolution, skip it if you can. If you can't miss it, if you have to see it, okay, but if you can, try to miss it, because it is everywhere in the culture. So we want on this program, I want to identify resources, voices, institutions that are standing strong, but then you have to do your job. You have to avail yourself of those resources. If you're not a big book reader, you can listen to the audio book, or you can give the

book to your pastor, but we all have to get involved. as you said as well, John, you know, there's a remnant, and I believe the Lord is with us, but we want those who possibly can be saved from these deceptions to be saved from them. So each of us can do a part. You know, we all have neighbors. We all have friends. Whatever you can do. It doesn't have to be an onerous thing.

But if you're going to a church that is drifting along with this, I want to say this boldly and again and again and again, I say you're part of the problem. If you're tithing God's money to a church that is not bold on these issues, and I've said to me, one of the litmus tests of our time is, did your church speak out boldly when Charlie Kirk was murdered, or did they say, well, we're going to avoid that subject? That, to me, that is as clear as it gets. And there are many churches that say, well, some of our people will think he's divisive. Here's the question, was he? Because if he wasn't, you're complicit with the lie by not talking about it.

So we can go on and on here. There's just, there's so much. John, I just want to ask you, what are you working on right now? Because you are working on so many different things. We've touched on many of them. So your decaf oatmeal, extra but not piping hot, four pups of caramel, no sugar, small latte, and a large cup. That will be 10 minutes. No worries.

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Because there's no point in tightening your belt. If it's just going to break when you do, get the good stuff in store at Marshalls today. Well, of course, you know, also this year I had a book on the American founding, not just the revolution, but the endowed by our creator, which really goes to the fundamental principles of the American founding and how they were influenced by Christianity and through the attack on that by the progressive era. So I've been doing a lot on that. But really, actually, other than the work right now that I'm doing for Discovery Institute,

I'm spending most of my time trying to finish off the core curriculum for Cornerstone University. And I'm now sort of two-thirds the way through the second course, which is on challenges to the Young Republic. And so people are going to learn about the Second Great Awakening. They're going to learn about Frederick Douglass, the Christian abolitionist, Abraham Lincoln. And then at the tail end of the 19th century, the rise of the progressive era, the rise of Marxist ideas, and how that began to influence and lead to Woodrow Wilson and others and sort of the challenge to the American founding. So I've been enmeshed in trying to read these, again, primary source materials and call them down to, you know, snippets that students can read and engage in, you know, finding, you know, good videos, creating lectures and other things that students will get to enjoy.

I actually think, you know, earlier you said, you know, some of the stuff may be hard for people to understand. I actually think when done right, this is exciting stuff. The drama of American history that you talk about in your book Revolution on up to the current day, including in the 1980s of the fight against communism by people like Ronald Reagan, this is actually exciting history. And it's mind-blowing that so many people don't know about it. So I'd say that my goal in these three core courses that everyone's going to need to take at Cornerstone is that history is exciting.

and it's deeply involved with our fundamental Christian convictions, and it's also the fight between good and evil, and seeing how Christians in the past stood up for truth, but also some were co-opted. Like in the argument over slavery, there were sadly Christians on both sides of that. And so what does that say for today about when Christians disagree? Just because Christians disagree doesn't mean there's no right side. That's right. You know, we're going to have to leave it there, but that's exactly. right. And folks, you're responsible for getting it right. We've tried to provide a lot of the resources

here. John West, always a joy to have you. Thank you, my friend. Joy to be on. Have a great day. Today's show is brought to you by Grace precious metals. In an industry that can be confusing, grace believes in doing business differently with Christian values, transparent pricing, and a focus on straightforward gold and silver bullion, not high markup collectible coins. They even publish their spreads directly on their website so you can see the numbers before speaking with anyone. Learn whether physical precious metals may fit your financial plans at metaxis metals.com. That's metaxusmetals.com. So your decaf oatmeal extra but not piping hot, four pumps of caramel, no sugar, small latte, and a large cup. That will be 10 minutes. No worries. I'm having fun on Playojo.

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