The Eric Metaxas Show - #28- William Federer

Episode Date: December 26, 2025

Historian William Federer joins the show with amazing historical references for our celebration of Christmas.Sponsors: Christian Solidarity International: http://csi-usa.org/metaxas/ Help Save Lives in Israel Today:http://savinglifeisrael.orgMyPillow — Save BIG with code ERIC: http://mypillow.com Trusted Partners: ten Boom Coffee— Save 10% with code ERIC: http://tenboom.coffeeLegal Help Center - Get Free Legal Help Today: http://legalhelpcenter.com

Hey there, folks. You want to hear some fun stuff about Christmas? Because I don't. Actually, I do. Turns out that I do. And every, almost every holiday, we try to get William Federer. He is just a fount, almost literally, of information on the Christian origins of these holidays. And it turns out, I didn't know this, that Christmas originally was a Christian holiday. Did you know that? Yeah. Yeah, he's going to tell us all about it. It's just kind of, I love having him on. You'll see if you don't know William Federer, he's one of the heroes. I want to remind you, before we get to all the fun, crazy Christmas facts that we're going to hear from William Federer, we have a new sponsor on the program. The new sponsor now, to me, to me, a lot of people talk to me about this. They say, I'm interested in getting gold, right? I don't need to sell you on that. But the new sponsor on the program is Genesis Gold.

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You know, there's a lot of William Federer out there. I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about the William Federer, who is almost literally, not literally, but almost literally a fount of information. Bill, welcome. Every time you're on here, I get excited because I learn stuff that I absolutely never heard before. So welcome back where I know we're going to talk about Christmas, but you just told me off the air that you're going to help us, I think, understand

how we came to choose December 25th as the date for Christmas. Now, I'm guessing, this is just my guess, everybody knows that Christmas Eve is December 24th. So I think they just picked 25th because it's the day after Christmas Eve. Is that right? Right, right. So Eve means the evening before. But it is a little bit of a detective story, partly because the Hebrews did not celebrate birthdays. It wasn't.

Wait, the Hebrews did not. Okay, first of all, I got to tell my honest, that was a dumb joke, folks, about Christmas Eve. That was a joke. So don't even think about that. But you said that the Hebrews and the time of Jesus didn't celebrate birthdays. So that's pretty interesting. That gives us a clue to why we're not so clear on when Jesus actually was born, obviously. Right.

And so in the East birthdays were not celebrated. The date that everyone was concerned about was Passover and the resurrection. My wife and I visited Turkey years ago, and we were visiting with a Turkish family. And my wife asked the lady when her birthday was. She had to go in the other room, dig through some papers, and found a little card and came out and told us, birthday. They didn't have it met because on January 1st is when everybody turns the next year over. Okay, wait, this is an important thing. Now, I only know this because my dad, you know, growing up in Greece, they never celebrated birthdays. It was no big deal. Your name day. I mean, you're named after a saint.

So my dad's name day was, you know, St. Nicholas's feast day every year. It was, we would say, Kronia Pola, that was the day that they celebrated. Your actual birth date in Greece in my father's lifetime, it just wasn't a big deal. But it's hard for us in America to conceive that there are people that don't take birthday seriously. I mean, it's just not, in fact, you also just said about they, like we say, okay, like today I turn 25 years old, they would say the day you turn 25, you're 26 because

you've started your 26th year. So that's a whole other confusing thing. But anyway, keep going. Yeah, and so it wasn't until a lot of the Romans began to convert to Christianity, that the question was raised. When was he born? And so we then launched on this detective story. And it goes to John the Baptist.

His father, Zachariah, was a Levite priest, and he was in the temple. And it says, Luke won in the time of Herod, King of Judea. there was a priest named Zachariah who belonged to the priestly division of abijah. Now, what is the priestly division of abijah? First Chronicles 24, King David divides the Levite priests into 24 family groups. And Abijah is number eight. And so that still doesn't give us a lot of insight.

When does it work? Well, now we have the Dead Sea Scrolls. And some of the scrolls that were interpreted was one, 1962 by the Hebrew University's Department of Archaeology, and it has the sacerdotal courses, and it shows how the 24 family groups would serve two weeks a year, six months apart. Okay, wait, so you're telling me that because the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1947, we now, so we had to wait because they weren't interpreted like in five minutes, until 1962, somebody finds what you're talking about, which,

which begins to give us a way to figure this out. So in 1962, what specifically did they discover? I'm not clear on this. So was Aviona in 1964, the Cesarea inscriptions of 24 priestly courses called the sacerdotal rhoda system by Ezret, Israel, archaeological historical, geographical studies in Hebrew, L.A. Mayor, Memorial, volume. Anyway, it's documented.

So each of the 24 family groups serves twice a year, six months apart. Now we need to know when do they begin. And we look at the fall of Rome and, excuse me, the fall of Jerusalem by the Romans. And it's the 4th of August of 70 AD in the Latin calendar, which is the 9th of Av in the Jewish calendar. Jewish calendar is lunar, Roman calendar is solar. But now we know that it's the first week of August of the year 70 AD. And so the Talmud says that the Levi family that was on duty when the temple was destroyed was Jehoi Arab, which is the first course. And so if we know the first course is the first week of August, and that's Jehoel Arab, we know that eight,

weeks later is the Abijah course, and that is the Jewish tradition. So again, in the Talmud, it says that the priestly course that was on duty when the second temple was destroyed by the Roman Imperial Army, the second week of the lunar month of Av in 70 CE. And so Jehoi Arabs the first, the temple is destroyed. And so that means that according to that calendar, the last week of September would be when Abijah would be serving in the temple. Now, that's a big deal. because the last week of September are two big festivals. It's the Day of Atonement, the Most Serious Day, Yom Kippur, and then the end of the week is the Feast of Tabernacles.

And so Luke 1-5, Zacharii, belonged to the priestly division of Bajia. And so he's ministering this important week. And then you have another clue. It says that the lot fell to him to burn incense. And so the lot fell to whom? To Zechariah, the father of John the Baptist. And so this is in the Gospel of Luke. Correct.

Okay, because I mean, you know, we read the Gospel of Luke. Most of us are going to miss this. We don't understand the significance. But you're telling us now, you know, as we kind of like go backwards and figure this out, that this is helping us date when Jesus was born. So keep going. Yeah, so a lot. So the high priest is the only person that goes to the whole.

holy holies. But into the holy place, the Levi priest go. This is where they have the table of show bread, so they cook fresh bread every day, and they put it there. And then they have the menorah with the seven golden lampstand. And so the, but how do these priests get chosen to be ministering into the holy place by lot? And so there's, by this time, 24,000 Levites. And so the Abijah family would pull lots, and the lot fell to Zechariah. This was an honor that you probably would experience once in a lifetime, that you're chosen for this special week to be the one going into the holy place. And so now that would explain why the whole multitude of people were praying outside at the hour of incense, right? This is a big event week,

not just another week of the year. Then the angel appears to him standing on the right side of the altar of incense, and the angel says, fear not Zacharize, the wife Elizabeth shall bear thee a son. And so when his time of service was completed, he returned home, Luke 123, and Elizabeth became pregnant and remained in seclusion five months, and now we skip over to the Byzantine Rite Church, and it says that September 23rd is the traditional date for the conception of John the Baptist. The proto-evangelium of St. James mentions this, and he's the forerunner of Christ. So if John the Baptist is conceived around September 23rd, then we go to the Gospels, and we see that the angel appears to Mary and twice mentions that in the six months of Elizabeth's pregnancy,

God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth to the Virgin, to the virgin, named Joseph, to son of David, the virgin that was married. And then another time it says, Angel entered, behold, a cousin Elizabeth. she has also conceived her son in her old age and is in the six months of her that was. Okay, so we're talking about March? Correct. So six. Okay, so you're telling me, according to this, Jesus would have been conceived in around March.

Right. So the traditional date for the feast of annunciation, that's when the angel announces to Mary that she's going to conceive Jesus. Can I guess? Can I guess March 25th? March 25th. There you go. I just guessed one out of 365. I got it. Amazing.

March 25th is the feast of the enunciation. Okay. So obviously, keep going. So nine months after March 25th is December 25th. Hey there, folks. As hard as it may be for us to believe, especially if we're in America, there are people in other parts of the world who have literally been enslaved because of their faith in Jesus Christ. some of them for decades. Hundreds of thousands of them have been persecuted and enslaved in the Sudan.

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Imagine buying the freedom of a fellow Christian believer. You can do it. Call 888-253-3522. 888-253-3522. Christian Solidarity International provides life-saving resources for persecuted Christians for almost 40 years. 888-253-3522 or go to Ericmatakis.com and click on the banner. You'll see it, Ericmetaxis.com. Click on the banner. Please give someone the gift of getting their life back. Provide life and freedom for someone right now. God bless you. Okay, so my question is,

why have I heard so often that Jesus was not born anywhere near December 25th? It sounds, according to what you're saying, like he really was born around December 25th. Right. So the Zacharias's family group can serve at six-month twice a year, six months apart. And so they think, well, maybe it was the earlier time that his family group was serving, which would have put the calendar off by six months. But when we realize that you count off from the Jehoi era, the priestly division was on duty when the temple was destroyed, being the first of August, now we can know it's the second time of the year. Okay. So, and when did we discover that information? Is that what came out of 1962? Yeah, that is the last piece of the puzzle that helped us to figure. Was in 1962, but that's quite a while ago. I'm just interested that in all these years, 60 plus years, I had not heard this.

This is, so this is not widely known. Right. So that's why you have older commentaries that speculate other different dates. And everybody has these commentaries and they're good commentaries. But this was the piece of the puzzle that said, okay, there's. six months apart twice a year. And so here is Susan K. Raoul. She wrote a book called Toward the Origins of Christmas, 1995.

St. John Chrysism counts off the months of Elizabeth's pregnancy and dates Mary's conception from the sixth month of Elizabeth, then counts off another nine months to arrive at the birth date of Christ. And then there's a book written in the fourth century called on solstices and equinoxes. it said, Our Lord was conceived in the month of March, March 25th, which is the day of the passion of the Lord and of his conception, for on that day he was conceived on the same he suffered. So lo and behold, there was this tradition that Jesus was conceived and died on the same day, obviously 33 years apart. So here's Yale professor, Andrew McGowan. he wrote in biblical archaeological review online, how December 25th became Christmas.

And he writes, well, when did he write this? I'd have to look up with the day. But I mean, is it recently or is it a long time? Yeah. Pretty recent. Pretty recent. He says it was a common belief

that the Messiah fulfilled his mission on the anniversary of its inception. And then you have St. Augustine. And he wrote on the Trinity in 417, A.D. For Jesus is believed to have been conceived on the 25th of March upon which day he also suffered. And so you have... Bill, how come I've never heard this? I mean, don't you find it amazing that our whole lives, you know, this is sort of, I don't know, these beautiful traditions, unless it's hogwash, but it doesn't sound like it's hogwash. It sounds like it's real.

what an incredible thing and what a what a mnemonic device to be able to to think that Jesus would have been conceived in the same week that 33 years later or whatever you know that that he goes to the cross all this stuff is sort of beautiful it's poetic and it's been lost to the modern church until now yeah it's fascinating and so that's why when I discovered as I put it into a book called there really is a Santa Claus the hit the St. Nicholas and Christmas holiday traditions. One, people say, well, lambs, they wouldn't be in the field in December because it'd be so cold. Well, lo and behold, if you look at the climate of Bethlehem, in the winter, it gets as low as 47 degrees. It's the same as Flagstaff, Arizona, right? So it's a moderate climate there in Bethlehem. And if you realize the priests needed lambs, lambs for the daily sacrifice, so there would have had to been lambs. And to you look online, I even found a Carroll County grown farmer's website, and it has an article, why are lambs born during the winter? And it says this, sheep are short day, long night breeders, meaning they breed

late summer, early fall. Consequently, their lambs are born in the winter and spring, but it mentions winter. And then another website was Warhorse Valley County Farm Park, and it has a little, they raise lambs. And it says, lambs are born around 145 days, 4.5 months after the U falls pregnant. Lamming, which is the birthing of lambs, can start as early as December and go on to as late as June. So you could have had lambs out there in a 47 degrees. Now, this is where it gets interesting. Some think December 25th was chosen to erase the pagan Roman winter solstice festival of Saturnalia.

But this is discounted when we realize that the solstice is December 22nd, not December 25th. If you're going to pick a date to overlap something, you'd pick the date. Now, Saturnalia, was this feasting and merriment, this god of Saturn. For those not familiar with how the solar system works, the sun's at the center,

and the earth goes around it in an elliptical orbit. And so at the furthest away in the ellipse, you have December 22nd, and that's when the earth is tilted away, and then it starts to come back again. So it would look like it's going to stand, the sun is standing still for these two days. So it's called soul means sun, and stis means still. So it's called the solstice. You know, I never thought about that the word solstice, that that S-O-L, soul, sun is part of that. I love etymology.

I love learning things like that. there, folks. Okay, it's time to speak plainly. If ever there was a time for plain talk in America, I would say this is it. Every day I hear from people who say, Eric, something feels off. It's like there are these giant forces, global, financial, unaccountable, kind of pushing things around while hardworking Americans foot the bill. Am I crazy? Here's the problem. No, you're not crazy. You're not imagining it. It's true. Whenever there's instability, global tension, market at chaos, currency issues, the big financial players always seem to lend on their feet, while regular people are left wondering why groceries suddenly cost more than your first car.

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to make you wonder if anything. stable anymore. Do something steady and sensible today. Metaxusgoldir.com. Thanks to our partners at Genesis Gold. Get ready to own something. The global financial elites cannot mess with. Go to Metaxusgoldir.com. So wait, what's the difference between Solstice and Equinox then? So Equinox is halfway between the summer solstice on June 22nd and winter solstice on December 22nd. And so equa means equal and nox means night. And so this is where you have exactly 12 hours of daylight and 12 hours of nighttime. And this is when you have the spring equinox around March 22nd and the autumn equinox around September 22nd. And so. So notice this thing as a winter equinox.

It's the winter solstice on December 22nd. Correct. And so it's December 22nd, not December 25th. Right. Now, some think that the date was chosen to replace the Roman Natalus soul Invictus. And Natalus means birth and soul means son and Invictus means invincible. So this was the Romans worship the unconquered sun god. And but the first one, and turns out he's conquered, but go ahead. Well, the first mention in literature of the concept. that maybe the Christians picked December 25th to overlap this pagan date was in the 12th century. So we're talking way after that the first writing of this.

In fact, this is where it gets interesting. It looks like Christians were celebrating December 25th before the Romans celebrated December 25th as Natalus Sol Invictus. So here's Pope Tellus for us, 7th century bishop of Rome. He dies from 136 AD. And he begins a mid- Wait, wait, which century, sorry? 136 AD. And he...

Second century Bishop of Rome. Go ahead. And so he has the December 25th midnight mass started in honor of believing the exact day and hour of Jesus's birth. So the midnight mass goes to 136 AD on December, 25th. And then there's a telephilus, theophilus. I'm not pronouncing my Greek names. He can correct me. He was the bishop of Cessaria, and he writes this around 181 AD.

We ought to celebrate the birthday of our Lord on what day soever the 25th of December shall happen. So it could be any day of the week, but that's 181. And then 204, You have St. Hippolytus of Rome in his commentary on Daniel. He says, for the first advent of our Lord in the flesh when he was born in Bethlehem was December 25th, a Wednesday, while Augustus was in his 42nd year. And again, that's 204 AD that St. Hippolytus writes that. Why is this important? Because it's not until 274 AD. that we have the first record of Roman Emperor Aurelian introducing the imperial cult of Sol Invictus. So the Romans did not celebrate December 25th until 274 AD, yet the Christians were celebrating it for several hundred years prior to that. So maybe here you have this growing Christian movement and 10 major persecutions of Christians in the first three centuries.

and Romans are, you know, killing Christians and throwing them to the lions. They're trying to stamp out this movement. And it would make more sense that the Romans picked this date to try to stamp out Christianity. The same way in modern day, the California State University professor Ron Everett picked, made up that holiday of Kwanza in 1966 as an alternative. to Christmas, right? Here's this secular professor wanting to say, well, he didn't pick the holiday in August or March or whatever. He wanted to have it right there at Christmas, Kwanza, and it was created intentionally to

be an alternative to Christmas. And so the idea is, hey, pagans want to try to stamp out Christmas one way or the other. I mean, I have to say this is a big deal. What is your book where, because all the stuff you're quoting. from which book is it of yours um it's it's on the shelf there it's called whatever excuse me i have another book with that time it's called there really is a santa claus the history of st nicholas and christmas holiday traditions okay so the in that book is all the stuff you're sharing there really is a santa claus by william federer because honestly bill this is just extraordinary i'm amazed

that i've not heard a lot of what you've been sharing and so this kind of a big deal the headline is Jesus probably really was born around December 25th. I mean, for me, that's a headline because my whole life I've been told, nah, it's kind of a made-up day. He was probably born in the spring and it was chosen because of this and this. And you're telling us, no, probably he was born on December 25th. That's kind of amazing, frankly. Yeah.

And then the Greeks and Eastern Orthodox celebrated January 6th Epiphany as the holiest day of the season. whereas Western Europe celebrated December 25th as the holiest day of the season. So in the year 567 AD at the consulate tours, they decided to make all 12 days from December 25th to January 6th, the 12 days of Christmas. So the 12 days of Christmas are not the days leading up to Christmas. That's Advent. The 12 days of Christmas are December 25th to January 6th. And they called them holy days.

But as the years went on, Holy Day got pronounced holiday. And so when they say, don't say Merry Christmas, just say happy holidays. Well, what is the holiday? But the Holy Days and the Holy Days are the 12 days to Christmas. They can't get away from it. Hey there, folks. Quick word from today's sponsor. When you hear about rockets, drones, missiles, or a terror attack in Israel,

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basic bandages, blood reserves, medical supplies, ambulances, and training. If you have a heart for Israel, please give whatever you can. Every dollar matters. Savinglifeisrael.org. This is an important thing to say that folks, if you want, you should celebrate the 12 days of Christmas, starting December 25th for 12 days. Those are the 12 days of Christmas. And I would love to bring that tradition back because I think a lot of people they've lost that or they're not familiar with that. And I know through history, people have celebrated the 12 days of Christmas, but a lot of people have forgotten about it. In the modern era, a lot of people are not aware of the 12 days of Christmas starting on December 25th through January 6th. And then in England, they made a big deal about the 12 days

of Christmas, so much so that Shakespeare wrote the 12th night, right? So this is the big party night because it's the last day of the Christmas. And so there was a song in England in the early 1600s that basically was a Sunday school song. And it's called In Those Twelve Days. And if you read it, it's very similar to the song that we sing. And so here, the chorus. In those 12 days, in those 12 days, let us be glad for God and His powers made all things. And then it says, what is that which is but one? What is that? What is that? What one? We have but one God alone in heaven above sits on his throne. What are they which are but two? The Old Testament, old and new. What are they which are but three,

three persons of the Trinity? What are they which are before? The four sweet evangelists they are. What are they but are but five? Five senses. What are they six, six days of the three. labor. Seventh, the liberal arts, God has sent down eight or the eight beatitudes, nine, nine muses with sacred tunes. I don't know what that is, but what are they but are over a 10, 10 statues God gave to Moses, where they brought up 11, 11, 11,000 virgins suffered death for Jesus, where they borrow up a 12, 12 attending on God's son. And so the thought is that maybe that was the inspiration for the song that we sing. On the first day of Christmas, my true love gave to me. And then partridge in the pear tree, the partridge is a bird that feigns death to distract attackers from the nest.

And so it will flop on the ground like it's... Doesn't a possum also do that? Yeah, yeah. But it's not as fun to say on the first day of Christmas my truliff gave to me a possum. Yeah. Well, a lot of the birds do that. I was in Kansas. and we were going out to some, I don't know what town it was,

but the person driving me said, do you want to go the highway or you want to go the back road? I said, oh, let's go to the back roads. So we're like going through these fields that I don't think have been crossed since the Buffalo had been across there. And he's like opening up metal gates and we're driving across property. He knew the way. But there was like a little bird in the middle of the road.

And he stops the car and gets the boat. And he goes, oh, it looks like a sort of a little road run. bird, but it goes and flies and then it falls on the ground and it flaps. And then when a wolf or whatever starts getting close to it, it jumps up and flies and falls to the ground and flaps and then the wolf goes, but it's leading the wolf away from the eggs, the nest. What? It was a creek. That's the miracle of evolution, Bill. Isn't that amazing? How amazing. No, that is so beautiful. I mean, honestly, the more you hear about creation, but I didn't know, I mean, what you've been sharing so much information. I always want to make sure that folks are getting this. So the 12 days of Christmas,

we've heard about, we all know the song, you know, on the first day of Christmas, my truliff gave to me, a partridge, and a pear tree. I just the other day was reading what each of those days means, what it refers to. Obviously, four is the four gospels. And the pear tree is the cross. And everyone has some meaning. But it is beautiful to think of these traditions. I think people are hungry for these wonderful traditions that there's something beautiful about it. And also the mnemonic device that it helps us to remember all of these different things, you know, six being the six days of creation. And you said 10 is the 10 statutes of Moses, the decalogue. All of that is just, it's so beautiful. But I really wasn't aware that it came from a poem or a song from the 1600s.

Yeah, it's a lot of fun. In the book, I go through these things. You know, one is, we're all familiar with St. Patrick, converting the druids of Ireland and using the three-leaf clover to teach the Trinity. Well, three centuries after Patrick, you have St. Boniface, Lee, Britain, and evangelized the Germans. And the Germans worshipped the God, Thor. And that's where you get the word Thor's Day or Thursday. And And the Quakers wouldn't say Thursday because it was a pagan gods day. And so they would call it fifth day, the Quakers. But anyway, so Bonifist takes an axe and chops down Thor's tree. And then he points at an evergreen and said, let this be the tree of the Christchial that points toward heaven. Its leaves are evergreen. And it's sort of in the shape of a triangle. And so the thought was that's what he used to convey the Trinity.

And so that the Christmas tree was symbolic of Germans converting to Christianity. So much so that the lullaby that everyone has memorized is Johannes Brahms' lullaby. But in there, it says, you know, goodnab and good-nacht, the Engeline vaacht, you know, the angels watch. And it says that the little child will have dreams of the Christ's kindleine bomb, the Christ-child's tree. And so the Christmas tree was symbolic of Germans converting to Christianity. Martin Luther's the one who was walking home at night and saw the sky crisp and cold and the stars twinkling and he puts candles in the branches

and tells his children, this is like the sky above Bethlehem on the night of Christopert. I did not put that in my Luther biography, and I wish that I had, but people can find it in your book. I know we're out of time, but I want people to know that they can find your book.

It's called There Really is a Santa Claus by William J. Federer. Bill, it's just always a joy to speak with you. Thanks for coming on the program, and I hope people get a copy of there really is a Santa Claus because there's so much that we didn't get to touch on. Thank you so much. Merry Christmas to you. Well, Merry Christmas to you and to all a good night. Amen. God bless you. Folks, listen, if you've been injured in an accident or someone you love has been, this is something you really need to hear. I've been talking with the team over at Legal Help Center, and they're absolutely committed to helping people just like you, your rights and figure out what your case may truly be worth.

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