The Eric Metaxas Show - #37 - Kari Lake

Episode Date: January 14, 2026

Sponsor: BlockTrustIRA — Smarter Crypto Investing for Your Retirement https://metaxascrypto.comToday on the @EricMetaxasShow, I sit down with @KariLake to talk election integrity, the 2020 fallout, January 6 narratives, and why she says the system uses lawfare and media pressure to silence dissent. Then @CornerstoneU Dr. Gerson Moreno joins with a deep conversation on governance, human dignity, Latin America, and why biblical cultural renewal is the only real path to lasting change. TIMESTAMPS(0:00) Intro(2:36) Kari Lake Joins(5:05) Is 2020 About To Break Open?(9:21) Was January 6 A Setup?(11:41) How Do We Fix Elections?(14:18) Was Kari’s Election Stolen Too?(19:15) Why Are Protests Spreading Now?(25:18) Is Iran Rising Because Trump?(36:34) Why Can’t Nations Self Govern?(40:07) What Makes Violence Feel Normal?

Hey there, folks. Welcome. My guest in a few minutes is our friend Carrie Lake. I think if you know me at all or followed me, you know how much I love that woman. She's an American hero. She is just an American hero doing God's work. So I'm going to be talking to her about all kinds of stuff in a couple of minutes. Some of you know that we're doing a campaign with CSI. This is the last week for you to participate. to free a slave. If you don't know about this, go to ericmetaxis.com. In fact, please go to Ericmetaxis.com. Sign up for my newsletter. If you're new, if you're not signed up for the newsletter, there's all kinds of stuff there. And by the way, all of these programs we share on the newsletter to make it easy for you in case you miss them, ericmetaxis.com. We're doing also a flash sale, my book, Religinalist Christianity, which I got to tell you, I recommend highly, it's not just something I, you know, whipped up. There's some actually important stuff in there. We're doing a crazy flash sale, or they are having, somebody is having a crazy flash sale.

And if you want to get three hardcover copies for $25, this is my latest book, folks, in case you're not familiar, it's a sequel to Letter to the American Church. some very important stuff. I got to tell you, at least I think so. I thought so. Go to Ericmataxis.com for that. And if you are doing any shopping at mystore.com or mypillow.com, please use the code, Eric, support our friend Mike Lindell, support this program.

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All right. Now I'm going to go to. Our friend Carrie Lake, my conversation with her, we'll be right back. Hey, the folks. Welcome back. It is my joy to have Carrie Lake on as my guest to talk about everything. Carrie, I don't know where to start. Let me first say, Happy New Year.

Oh, wow. Thank you. I think it's going to be a great year. It's already off to an interesting start. Thank you for having me when my media guy said, Eric wants to have you on. And I just said yes. Then I thought, well, maybe I should ask what he wants to talk about. But then I realized it doesn't matter because I love listening to you.

And if you want to talk about current events, if you want to talk about what I'm doing in the administration, if you want to talk about cooking, I'm happy to do that. Well, I don't want to talk about cooking. I mean, I feel the same way by you. I just want to talk to you because of who you are and because of your perspective over the last few years and where we are now. You know, first of all, when we say we think it's going to be a good year, we know it's going to be an amazing year, an unprecedented year, an historical year. Most people who listen to this program know that America 250, what we're calling it is it's America's supercentennial. President Trump has ratified that term. We're celebrating our supercentennial.

And this is not just blather. This is not just hype about, you know, it's going to be a golden age. I really do believe that things are happening right now, which people have prayed for for years and years. We are seeing the exposure of corruption, the overthrow of evil leaders, the exposure of the theft of the 2020 election. I mean, that's how I first got to know you. We knew something happened. In 2020, we thought, hold on a second. What do you mean six states decided to stop counting in the middle of the night and then the next day suddenly, magically, Trump was way behind? What happened there? And you and I were one of the two of the few people asking questions, feeling an obligation to ask the questions on behalf of we the people to say, we can't have doubts about whether our elections are fair. And we had doubts. And now five years,

later, it's beginning to come out. What is your sense of what the president knows about this and what is happening behind the scenes? He was a lot about it. I mean, he lived it. It was, the election was stolen from him. It was stolen, really, truly, from we the people. And you're right, we knew something was wrong. And then as you start digging into it, you realize the evidence was overwhelming. Mountains upon mountains of evidence. And it just never would be looked at. And anybody who dared to bring it up was castigated or worse yet, destroyed, an attempt to publicly destroy people, destroy their reputation. If that didn't work and they kept on speaking, like yours truly, they go after you with lawfare, they go after you with character

assassination. Whenever that happens, you have to pause and say, why are they trying to stop this person? If this person is just some crazy nut, why not just ignore them? And, you know, why do you have to try to destroy them, knock them out, bring them down, and subsequently steal even more elections? I believe the election, the election story and what has been happening with our elections is the single most important story, because this is how they've been able to run this world, this corrupt world that's not just happening here in America. We're seeing it all over the world. And this is how we're able to get people into office who everyone scratches their head and says, but nobody liked that person. Nobody liked those ideas. This is not, you know, we're not

voting to have our economy destroyed. We're not voting. Nobody voted to have millions of people pour into our country, have Western civilization destroyed, have our, you know, children brainwashed. But when you have elections that are run in a very opaque way that we can't see how they're run, and we're just told to trust it. It's the most secure, honest election ever. Don't ask questions. And if you do, you're in trouble, that's when you know something's wrong. I think the president knows a lot. I think he's being briefed on a lot of what's happening. More information's coming out.

And I think they have cold, hard evidence. And that will be presented. This is the year that we get justice for our 2020 stolen election. And I think this is the year that we turn our elections around and going forward, we'll have honest elections. That's just my gut from the little bits of information I know. So I feel very good about 26. Well, I mean, obviously, if we don't get this right, we don't have a country.

You know, if you don't have fair and free elections, you do not have a country. If you don't have actual borders, you don't have a country. These are basics. And we both know that the lunatic left, the Marxist, lunatic, globalist, America hating, God-hating left is at war. They have been at war with most of what Americans love and value, and they've been getting away with it. And it takes the unprecedented earthquake that is the presidency of Donald Trump and the reelection of Donald Trump to deal with this. We're dealing with things that are so huge. And let's face it, Kerry, most Republican politicians,

have not given a damn about this. They have not wanted to take this on. George W. Bush, I was his biggest fan. Mike Pence. I loved Mike Pence. And then as time passed, I realized they clearly do not want to go to war with the giants that you're facing. And look, these are spiritual giants.

These are demonic powers that you're going against. This is not just dealing with George Soros. It's an invisible war. And we live through a time where many American people, of course, have woken up to this. But it's taken a number of years. I mean, the fact that we have people in the mainstream media being willing to talk about what actually happened maybe at January 6th and to overturn the preposterous narrative that this was some kind of an insurrection.

I mean, it's so preposterous. But they needed all that. They needed all that to pull it off. All of the stuff that we were not to talk about. Suddenly, again, suddenly now we are talking about it. They needed all of that to pull it off. President Trump obviously was such a transformational figure, a strong, powerful person.

He was not part of the approved leaders that they would allow to win an election. And when he managed to get through in 2016, they started with the Russia Gate. They started with the character assassin. nation, try to bring him down with scandal after scandal that were made up. When that didn't work and the people still followed him and loved him and wanted him to continue on, oh, wow, out of the blue comes COVID.

Wow. Oh, wow. Then I guess we needed to have the mail-in ballots. And that allowed them to then rig the 2020 election. And then what allowed that election to be ratified and certified was January 6th, which is a Fed'surrection. We're seeing more and more evidence of that. And now we're starting to see all of, we're starting to see the real reason they didn't want

President Trump. Look how he's changing the world landscape of, you know, taking down a Maduro-like figure who actually has been behind the rigged elections with many of the, you know, electronic voting machines finding a way back into Venezuela. We're about to learn a lot about that, I believe, a lot about the CIA's involvement in or lack of doing anything about stopping, even though they had information redilections. We're about to find out a lot. Let's just take a small microcosma of what's really happening.

Look at the fraud that was unveiled in Minnesota. Nick Shirley, an incredible citizen journalist, goes there. One afternoon uncovers $11 million in fraud. And, you know, all of a sudden now Minnesota is dealing with riots, and they're dealing with unrest because of the ice situation. They don't want us examining the fraud, the fraudulent behavior, who's behind it. And you mentioned Republicans who have done nothing about it. Remember, there's a lot of people.

It wasn't just elections stolen for Joe Biden with a bogus 81 million votes. There's a lot of other people who are sitting in office right now who rigged elections and these terrible machines and this terrible apparatus we have that moves our elections, got them into office. There's a lot of people sitting in... Are we talking about the governor of Georgia? I'm talking about people here in Washington, D.C., where I am right now. I think there's a lot of people up on Capitol Hill

who kind of wonder if they benefited from a little shaving of votes here or there. We don't know, because the elections are such a mess. We don't know who truly has been elected. And this is why we have to have major reform, Eric. We have to go back to Election Day. We need to go back to paper ballots, get rid of the election. the machines hand counting. And then you hear the other side say, it would take forever to hand count. No, it doesn't. You can have the election results that night. And then when they make that argument,

I say, oh, you mean it'll take longer than the nine, 10, 13 days that has been taking us to count elections? They have no argument for us wanting secure elections except to throw complete fabrications out. It'd be too expensive. Actually, they've made our elections more and more and more expensive. It would take too long. No, they are the ones who are telling us we should never expect to have election results on election night anymore. It's going to take 7, 10, 12, 13 days. They have no arguments because everything they've done has led to the system we're in, which we can't be certain that the people that are sitting in office are the ones that were truly elected. Hey there, folks. As hard as it may be for us to believe, especially for in America,

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Now look, you didn't bring it up. I'm going to bring it up. You ran for Senate. You ran recently. And it was my sense that the election was stolen from you. Are you allowed to talk about that at all? I talk about whatever I want because I still have freedom of speech. But yes, I mean, obviously the 22 election when I ran for governor against a real dunce who had was just part of the system, it was so obviously rigged that election.

I mean, remember they had to shut down the voting. 60% of the machines didn't work in the polling locations didn't work on election day when everybody was showing up. If that wasn't an indication, something was wrong. But then fast forward to 24, President Trump won in such a huge historic way. I think he actually won even bigger. But they stole and robbed from us a bunch of Senate seats and congressional seats. And I will believe that until the day I die. I did not fight it because I understand that the courts were corrupt in Arizona.

I understand that it's incredibly expensive. I'm still paying lots of money and legal fees. and I'm still financially paying for the fight that I put up in the governor's race. But they want us to believe that Ruben Gallego, a member of his family is a cartel family. His dad is a cartel drug trafficker. They want us to believe that the people, and he's an open borders guy, of Arizona, voted for this little guy who's been disastrous to the tune that he, they want us to believe he got more votes than Kamala Harris,

which was the Democrat presidential candidate. And they want us to believe that he almost got as many votes as President Trump. This is absurd. President Trump did huge in Arizona. I think that 99.999% of the people who voted for President Trump cast their vote for me. It took days upon days upon days to count the ballots in Arizona. In addition to that, they were finding every day we'd wake up and they'd go, oh, we found 9,000 more votes down in Yuma County.

Surprise. We found new votes in Pima County. This is, we just can't have elections run this way. So I never conceded that election. I think I truly was one of the more a popular political candidates, Arizona, has ever seen. And if you ask the people on the ground, they would say that. And I'm not trying to be boastful. I'm just a populist candidate, and I love the people of Arizona.

And they recognize that in me. And, you know, just as I will never say quiet when we have elections that are run like a banana republic, I'm never going to concede something that I did not lose. And I don't believe I lost those elections. Well, and of course you shouldn't. We have to keep talking because there's so many people, Carrie, that still don't get this. And some of them are sweet people who have very naively followed the mainstream narrative. Many of them are ding-dongs.

any of them are just unable to kind of break through. They're hanging out with the wrong people. Just the other day, the formerly Christian singer, I don't know how she describes herself, but Amy Grant put out a song lamenting how everything broke down, you know, January 6th was this, you know, insurrection and it's so sad and whatever. And I thought, I don't know what to say to somebody like that, except to say that what a ding-dong.

I don't know what I don't want to say that she's a evil but there are many people like that. They think of themselves as nice people and they have not heard most of what you and I have heard or what we talk about. They're basically getting their news and their information from other sources. And so there's so many people in this country who still don't know, yes, the election was stolen. Yes. you know, climate change. Most of that is a, is a preposterous hoax. There's so many narratives that have been foisted on the American people through decades. And what we're doing right now is we're living

through a revolution where people are waking up day by day, people who are on the fence are seeing one more thing to finally push them over and say, you know what? I didn't, I didn't vote for Trump or, but what I'm seeing right now doesn't make sense. I don't see. the people that I voted for, make being rational. What we just saw, I mean, I wanted to talk for a minute about these riots or protests or whatever they are. It's really shocking against ICE agents trying to do their job. And I think Trump said it a couple nights ago and I've been saying it that, ladies and gentlemen,

we had an election. Donald Trump was elected by we the people, and we abide by our elections. So if you didn't vote for him, he's still your president. And what people elected him to do was to deport many of the people that are here illegally, and he is now doing that. And if you don't like it, next time get a better candidate. Get somebody better than Kamala Harris. And we can duke this out in the election.

But they don't seem to accept the way. will of the people. And that's part of what we're talking about here, right, is that there are people that say, you know what, this whole quaint idea you have of the American people elect somebody to represent them. We don't buy that. We're just going to do what we want. So it's really a power struggle at this point. It truly is. I think there's some people who are just innocently caught up in it. Like they believe what they're seeing on certain news sources. I don't know if Amy Grant is one of those people who's just kind of innocently caught up in it because she should. just believes that stuff and she's and she's naive and maybe gullible. But I also think there's a lot of

people who are in on it. I mean, I'm talking people who are in the mainstream media. I'm talking people who are part of Hollywood, people who, you know, are actors and famous people, people who are in the political world. And I think there's just a lot of controlled agents in this, you know, who have, they've got blackmail material on them and now is their time to step up and produce the song or get in front of the cameras and say something incendiary toward the president or toward his followers. This is a very corrupt system and operates on blackmail. And this is some of the reasons they didn't want people like President Trump or me in office

because there is no blackmail material on me. They couldn't bribe me. They don't have blackmail material on me. And so if they have an agent that they can control because they have blackmail on them and they have somebody who's running who's just for the, the people and is going to get to D.C. or the state capital and work for the people. And nobody controls that individual. That's a very dangerous thing for this corrupt system. To have folks like a President Trump where he doesn't have dirt. He's lived in the public eye.

I mean, everything, we've known everything about President Trump. There's nothing new being revealed. Oh, wow, we didn't know that about him. It's all been out there. And same with me. And this is why they have to stop people. But I don't know if there's just a lot of gullible people. I think it's a little bit of a mix. I personally know people who watch CNN religiously. They believe everything they see on that. And it's so sad because it's torn families apart. It's torn relationships apart. And I really long for the day that we get kind of through this reveal. I think there'll be a great reveal of all of the corruption and all of the lies. And then we can, work on kind of healing our country, bringing people back together again because it's a shame

what's happened. It's been a tough revolution, as you say. I do want to say that I think we have to be realistic. A lot of times, even you and I have bought into this narrative of we need healing. And of course, part of that is correct. But at some point, you're going to have a dedicated opposition that doesn't want healing. I mean, when we won the revolution, when George Washington won a Yorktown and then we sign a treaty in 1783, there was still many, many, many people who they weren't going to go along with that. They still wanted to side with the king, with King George III. And so they left.

They went to Canada. They went wherever they went because they were not willing to go along with it. And you find this that there are people that they're going to be at war. They don't really care who wins. And so I think we have to be realistic that there are some people that are knowingly dedicated to the overthrow of the West, to the overthrow of biblical values. They're dedicated to that. And so to some extent, we're in a war.

It's a ideological war. It's a spiritual war. What's going on in Iran? What do you say there? I mean, Jimmy Carter, you talk about gullible leftists. Jimmy Carter refused to stand. I'm old enough to remember this. Refused to stand boldly with the Shah of Iran and bought into the lie. You saw this just a few years ago with the Arab Spring garbage that we're going to allow them, we're going to allow the people to determine their future. You're not allowing the people to determine their future. The people of Iran preferred the Shah of Iran, but revolutionaries got a foothold. And when you have someone, unlike the president of the United States in Jimmy Carter, refusing to stand boldly, but giving lip service to, it's really blather to the ideas that, well, we're not going to

stand with the Shah. We're going to let the people of Iran determine their future. Actually, you're not letting them determine their future. You would be doing that had you stood as Reagan would have with the Shah. And again, it's like the Shah was not George Washington, but when you compare him to the leadership of the Ayatollahs, the mullahs. And so we've really seen a failure on the left in America to discern where we are. And they have been very naive. The left in America, of course, has been very, very naive with regard to these things. And to this day, they're not standing

boldly with the people of Iran. You know, they're kind of acting like, well, you know, we don't have a dog in that fight. I mean, if you can't stand up for the people of Iran now, it says something about what your fundamental beliefs are. At least that's how I see it. I agree. I mean, it's really amazing the silence from the mainstream media and what's happening on the ground in Iran, where it's truly remarkable, the people who have been through 47 years of misery and hell and under this Islamist rule, where they were literally forced into this religion that they even naturally were not. Their culture was torn from them and their lives destroyed. They were killed.

They were murdered. And for them to be rising up at the risk of their own lives, really rising up night after night protesting and protesting. And the crowds are growing. And they're saying we want a leader. We want new leadership. We want somebody we choose. We do not want this anymore. And for the mainstream media to go silent, it just shows that many of these in the mainstream media are for this kind of heinous Islamist rule.

And it's horrifying what they've been through. I am so encouraged by what I'm seeing by these brave souls on the streets of Tehran and all across Iran. And, you know, I'm running the U.S. agency for global media. And we have a Persian language service at Farsi. And we are doing incredible coverage right now, encouraging the people to continue to stand up, rise up. This is their moment. And the stark difference between a weak, weak leader in Jimmy Carter that really set this whole thing in motion practically. and President Trump and what he's doing is remarkable.

It's night and day. And I think had we not had such a strong leader, had Kamala Harris been sitting, God forbid, in the White House, the people of Iran wouldn't be doing this. They would be subjected to even more. There is no doubt what you're saying. Listen, if Trump were not in office, there is no doubt.

I mean, I remember when Obama and Biden both had opportunities, and both had opportunities to speak boldly for the people of Iran, to stand with the people of Iran. They didn't do it. They did exactly what Jimmy Carter did. They said, we're going to step back and, you know, let them go to hell. We don't really care. And the funny thing is, you have people like Tucker Carlson who seemed to be taking the view

that that's not our fight. And they were, I mean, I remember vividly because it's only a couple of months. months ago, when President Trump sent our stealth bombers to bomb the Iranian nuclear sites, if he had not done that, if he had listened to Tucker Carlson and those other voices, I don't think the uprising that we're seeing now would have happened and would not stand a chance. So it is really because of the brave, super bold leadership of Donald Trump that we are where we are. extraordinary thing finally in our lifetimes to be seeing this after 47 years.

You're so right. Had we not taken out their nuclear sites and their nuclear potential, this wouldn't be happening right now. And we had to do that. That was very important. I stood with President Trump. But you know, the beautiful thing about President Trump is he doesn't care if the naysayers are, he knows what has to be done. Let me just say, he's got more information than some of these people who are talking on their podcasts and shows. I'm pretty sure that President Trump has a lot more information and understands things better. Everybody likes to analyze. That's their job, you know.

Their listeners appreciate it when they figure out what they think should be happening versus what is happening and they discuss it. That's kind of their job. The beauty of President Trump is, he's not holding it against anybody. You know, I think he still considers Tucker to be a friend. And he wants all of us to kind of work. together, but I think President Trump knows exactly what's going on. Right now, now we're free to help in any way possible. The people of Iran, had that not occurred, you're right, it would have been impossible. And I also think the arrest and capture of Maduro played into this, obviously,

in a huge way, showing that one of the people who is kind of a controlling figure in much of the crime and much of the pain around the globe is now in custody, in city. in a jail cell in New York City. And the people now have the ability to rise up. They know that the ground has been cleared, the way the path is there. And what I think, what we're doing at VOA in our Persian language, our Farsi language service, is that we are telling the story of what's happening on the ground with the people. We're letting them know where the United States stands, what President Trump is saying, what Marco Rubio is saying. And what we're not getting into the, falling into the trap is trying to pick the next leader for the people should they be successful,

which I believe they will. And this is a very dangerous trap. A lot of the media is already trying to pick who the next leader is going to be for Iran. The Iranian people, great Persian people, will choose their own leader. And it's very dangerous, I think, what's been happening, which is the outside world, trying to find opposition leaders on the outside of Iran, who haven't been part of the struggle of the people. the new leader of Iran should come from inside Iran and be part of the struggle of the people

and the people should choose not the media not media outlets not podcasters in America not fake news media in America that's not who should choose the next leader of Iran I do want to clear something up about you not unifying but healing because you said something and and I wanted to jump in when I say as a country we need to heal I'm saying you're once all the justice has been administered because there are people who are just innocent innocently buying into the absolute decades of brainwashing and lies that have been fed to them through the media, through indoctrination in schools. They've been fed abject lies and brainwashing. It's been a brainwashing campaign of historic proportions unlike we've ever seen

before. And so I do want those innocents. I want to see families coming back together in healing. But I want justice more than anyone. I mean, we need absolute justice. People need to go to prison for life for what they've done and maybe even the death penalty in some cases. What has been pushed on us through lies, through fraud, would have been perpetrated on the American people and really the world. There has to be accountability for that. That means justice. That means people behind bars locked up. I want that more than anyone. Well, I I know that about you and I assume that about you, but I'm glad for your clarification in any case because there are people trying to make sense of this. I mean, I think about, there's a chapter

in my upcoming book about the American Revolution where I write about Philadelphia. Philadelphia was a bastion of loyalists who sided with King George III. And so when General Howe's armies took over Philadelphia. It was like a big party, you know, it was like a big British party of the British elites and British culture and so and so forth. And so nine months later after Saratoga, the British make the decision, okay, we're going to leave Philadelphia. So they leave Philadelphia. And there is a moment, kind of like what we're talking about now, Benedict Arnold, who back then was sort of a good guy, he is deputized because of this wound he got at Saratoga, he's deputized by George Washington to be the military governor of Philadelphia.

And he got the whole thing wrong. And this gets to what you were saying. So I could finally get to the point here. But it was a really tricky balance because on the one hand, the patriots wanted justice. They knew who the people were in Philadelphia who were working hard against George Washington, who were working hard against those who believed in American independence, and they wanted justice. They knew who those people were who were making money to some extent working with the British. And then at the same time, there were voices of reason to say, well, we have to be careful. It's not just about demonizing our opponents. We need healing. And so it's both. And that's what's so tricky,

because you do need both and you need real wisdom. And I think by the grace of God, President Trump understands that. Yeah, he does. I'm told we're out of time. Carrie Lake, it's always a joy to have you on. We'll have you back. We've got lots more to talk about.

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and happy new year. Because as I know I mentioned to you, you know, I'm finishing my book on the American Revolution and looking at the roots of our revolution,

which is the only real revolution. Everything else is just like political uprisings, but not a revolution in thinking. And at the heart of the American Revolution, it's undeniable. It's undeniable.

Is a Reformation, Puritan, ethic about education, about throwing off the shackles of what John Adams calls the feudal and canon law. In other words, there's a worldview that comes to some extent, this is cultural, but it comes to some extent, I have to be careful, to some extent out of Catholicism. Now, people always know I'm a pro-Catholic, non-Catholic. I'm not Catholic. But the point is that out of those cultures, there's a, I guess you would call it, a sacerdotal elite

that sort of tells people, it's like, we're in power and we're educated and we're going to tell you what to think. You don't need to think for yourselves. We'll take care of you. You get that idea in the Catholic monarchies at the time of the American Revolution to some extent. And so we get this seesawing back and forth in a way where people want to rebel against that. But the question is, where are they going to replace it with? And of course, we would say you should replace it with self-government.

But in order to govern yourselves, you have to be educated. You have to be virtuous. You have to have a lot of things in place in the culture, which we had in place in the culture, mostly of the 13 colonies. in 1775, 1776, most places around the world do not have that in the culture. In other words, it really takes something to govern yourself. And a lot of people don't have the ability to do that or to think it through or they don't have the kind of civic muscles to know how to do that. So they just submit to whatever regime is there.

And so it's not something, I mean, it has to some extent. with the culture. But you know, you can't blame Latin America when you have the same thing going on all around the world. I mean, what's happened? It was something, I will tell you, I mean, one of the things that was shocking to me

growing up in Columbia was the amount of violence in society, right? I mean, it was everywhere. I still remember things I saw and things that I witnessed that as a child just shook me internally. The amount of violence and bloodshed. But more than that, how normalized it is. at the very fabric, the DNA of society, and homes, in neighborhoods, everywhere.

It was just an expectation. I couldn't understand it. I understood it when I was in graduate school in the United States, and I began to study a particular, a faculty member of my university, was from Columbia. He was a poet. And he wrote a piece where he said,

violence is endemic, it's in the DNA of Columbia. We solve our problems to bloodshed, right? What does that mean, though? When somebody says people use terms like, it's endemic. What does that actually mean? I think he was having a difficult time trying to find it. But what he was saying is that it is built in the very fabric of people in Colombia. It's a part of who we are. And it's normal. He wasn't

saying it was a good thing, but it's normal. Now, I'm saying this to say the following thing, but the governance piece, Eric, is that part of the governance piece is the importance of human dignity, right? And when you have society where there is no, some people have more dignity than others or are seen as having more dignity than others. And the idea of human dignity is not really, the principle is not really part of society. You've got a major problem. I think one of the virtues of our country and the colonies

was the importance of human dignity. We're all created and got by God and doubted by a created within illegal rights. That mentality, that principle is not there in South America. Well, right, but why not? I mean, that's the question. And I would say it comes from your worldview. If you have a biblical worldview, because listen, a country can say we're Christian and not have a Christian worldview.

In other words, so what was it? I mean, everybody talks about Thomas Jefferson. Forget about Thomas Jefferson. Where did Jefferson get it from? This crazy idea that we're all created equal. What do he just announces this? And everybody says, okay, it is a biblical idea. He gets it from John Locke, who gets it from Wickcliffe, who gets it from the Gospels. this is a biblical idea that works its way out in history. And so if a culture does not buy into that idea, then obviously it's going to fall into everything you're describing. You know, in other words, I don't think we can say, I think, you know, when you talk about the culture or the people of Columbia,

if you say, look, that's just who they are, that's essentially a racist, unbiblical worldview, right? In other words, they have allowed themselves to fall into this. I mean, everybody has different predispositions to fall into different kinds of problems. But then you say, what is the solution? Or is their solution? Maybe there's no solution. I would say the solution is adopting biblical Christianity and allowing that to work its way into the culture, which is not an easy thing.

It is a gospel transformation and renewal of the culture, right? a biblical Christian worldview renewal of the entire culture. But what happens after generation and generation and generation of this, it becomes sort of this sort of epiphenomenal in the culture, right? Yes. Where people begin to feel like this is just who we are. Right. Can't get out of this.

It becomes this gigantic spiral where people feel like there's no way to break through this. I think that's what's been happening for generations in South America throughout these cultures and countries, beautiful as they are, beautiful resources as they are. It's become something that's overwhelming. this black hole that people believe we just can't get out of. Thus, the importance of biblical gospel-centric cultural renewal, right? That transforms society. And the importance of the church and the gospel and educational institutions doing this, the challenge in South America,

though, is that most universities are left-leaning and Marxists. So that's another problem. So individuals were being educated in high institutions, higher education in South America, many of them are being indoctrinated with left-leaning Marxist thought. So I remember in Columbia that college students and universities were famous for rioting on the streets, right? I mean, you know, breaking things down, I mean, you name it. And why they were leftists, they were Marxists raging against the system. So there needs to be cultural. But what is that?

What that is, you can go back to Columbia, a couple of miles from where I'm sitting in New York, in Manhattan. Columbia University in 1968, riots, young people, you know, smoking, acting like Che Guevara and Fidel Castro, sitting on the desk of the president of Columbia University. And the president of Columbia University, who had no cultural confidence, allowed them to get away with that because this is a spirit of lawlessness. and it and you know many of them are like Jewish upper west side Manhattan people has nothing to do with Latin culture this is a spirit it's a spirit of lawlessness you can look back to the French revolution the people in the French Revolution rioting and murdering they were not you know Latinos they were not this is a spirit that if that grabs on to cultures uh and So I would say the only solution really, realistically, is revival, is people being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

I mean, that's radical. A lot of people think I don't even know what you're talking about. But I don't see any way out because to me, it is a spirit. And you can do things about it. I mean, we can use the strength of the United States to mitigate the lawlessness. And I think this is what Trump is going to try to do. but at the end of the day, people cannot govern themselves unless they're prepared to govern themselves, unless they're willing to do the work because it's not easy to be virtuous.

It's not easy to sacrifice for your country. And all of that is something that the people have to do for themselves. So that's ultimately the challenge. Yeah, the significant change I've seen in South America and Colombia has been through the gospel. I mean, I've seen it evidence over and over. But I just spoke, for example, through the pastor last week, a Hispanic pastor in Grand Rapids, Michigan. And we talked about this issue. And it's interesting to me how even the evangelical community, in the church community,

in the religious community, many of them do not see. There's not even a discussion about the importance of biblical renewal and revival. And of course, we both did say that a lot of people say they're Christians. A lot of people can say they're Christians. I mean, we just had this tragic case of Philip Yancey. I don't know we have just a couple of minutes left, but I think to myself, there are a lot of people who talk a good game.

They talk about theology and grace and on and on and on. But something's wrong with their theology. Because if you really are born again, if you've given your life to Jesus, it doesn't mean you won't make mistakes, but something is grievously wrong in many who, claim to be Christians. So on some level, it is about translating your theology into action. And I have said, you know, in my book, Letter to the American Church and in other places,

that it becomes completely meaningless. Bonhofer talks about it in cost of discipleship. People talk about grace, grace, grace, amazing grace, what's so amazing about grace. Let's talk about grace. And Bonhofer rightly calls it cheap grace. You do not understand the idea of grace. You talk a good Christian game, but then the reality is you, you're not living it out. There's some kind of a disconnect there. And so I know one of the things you guys do at Cornerstone University is you have a culture at the university of dignity, of respect, of right and wrong. It's not just about claiming to believe those things in my head. It's about living it out. And you really can't. And I'll know it's a continual challenge to do that and to do it, especially as you're receiving,

students from the culture, right? I mean, the culture is a profound impact. And so in some ways, you're trying to re-educate, right? And exercise that kind of stuff out and provide a living embodied examples and the principles to do it. And knowing that it takes time. But you know, Eric, I think you mentioned, it really begins with the human heart and our volitional decision, right, internally, that this is what we need to do because it's the right thing to do because it's the right thing to do because it's the beautiful thing to do. And that's one of the things I'm so concerned about. And whether it's education or we think about the South America question, it's the hearts of men and women.

And are we really aiming at wisdom and beauty and goodness? Do we want to be different? Do we want to be better? And I have seen it over and over. So often either people are confused about that or they've given up or they don't care or they're so misaligned with it. A huge challenge. It's an internal heart question.

Well, it's one of the reasons I always watch Turner Classic movies to catacize yourself and how do people in the 1930s and 40s and 50s, how do they think about life and how do we think about life? And, you know, every young man, you know, wants to have sex. And you say, well, guess what? That's a good and normal and healthy thing. But guess what? God created marriage. So you want to have a culture that encourages you to say, God, lead me to the woman that you have for me so we can get married and have children and have a life. And when you cease to see that in the culture, everything breaks down. God did not create us to live apart from those kind of rules. And so that's part of what you're doing at Cornerstone. I know I'm going to be with you guys in February.

This is so important. Maybe we can talk about that when I'm there with some of the students, because there's nothing more important than what we're talking about right now. Before we go, I know that obviously this year is a 250th anniversary of the birth of the United States of America. Ladies and gentlemen, if you're scoring at home, it's called America's Supercentennial. If you didn't know, it's called the super celebrating the supercentennial. And I know that the Secretary of Education, Lyndon McMahon, is going to be promoting this. Can you just say a word about that before we go? Yeah, it's a wonderful opportunity for, you.

universities and all of us to pause, celebrate, be grateful, and think about the future. So at Carson, what we've done is we're going to do something called CU-85 America 250. We're celebrating our 85th year in existence, and we're going to marry that to celebrating America supercentennial. And the entire year we'll pause and think deeply about the beautiful biblical Christian contributions to the greatness and beauty of America. And really to celebrate and think about it with our students, with wisdom conversations, in March. When you're here, when others are here,

John West is a book coming out as well as York. We're going to talk about those books on campus. And we want our students in that community to think deeply about the beauty of this country, the beautiful gift guy has given to us, what we have to do to continue to preserve and advance this beautiful country in which we live, and think deeply about Christianity and contributions of the scriptures and the Christian worldview and men and women who fear God to this country to make it what it is,

to make even better and greater in the future. It's a beautiful opportunity for us and our students to think deeply and prayerfully about God's gift to us in America. And one of the things as we go, I just want to say, I wrote a book. I think that sums up a lot of what we'll be talking about when I'm on your campus. It's called, if you can keep it, God's, well,

if you can keep it is the book, but it talks about the need for us to love our country. It's actually important. Actually, it's not optional. It's a beautiful thing. And I write about it in my book, if you can keep it, but we're out of time. Well, Gerson, Moreno, Riano, God bless you, my friend, and I'll see in a few weeks in Grand Rapids. Thank you.

Eric, blessings to you. See you soon. Thank you for everything. Hey there, folks. Quick word from today's sponsor. When you hear about rockets, drones, missiles, or a terror attack in Israel, somebody has to rush in after the sirens. That is Magin David Adom, Israel's National Emergency Medical Service, basically Israel's 911. They dispatch every ambulance in the country, take thousands of emergency calls every day,

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