The Eric Metaxas Show - #41 - Sidney Powell

Episode Date: January 21, 2026

In this episode, I talk with @SidneyPowell1 about hand counted paper ballots, her claims about Smartmatic and Venezuela, and what she says happened behind the scenes in the December 18 White House meeting. Sponsor: BlockTrustIRA — Smarter Crypto Investing for Your Retirement: https://metaxascrypto.com TIMESTAMPS(0:00) Intro(0:29) Sidney Powell Joins(6:22) What Happened In The Dec 18 Meeting?(13:38) Mike Pence And The Ten Day Option(16:13) 2024 Versus 2020 Claims(29:53) Did CIA And NSA Know?

Hey there, folks. Welcome back. As you know, if you have followed me at all, I have been somebody who believes that, you know, if you want a great country like America where people have liberty and freedom, you have to have actual elections. You know, I'm funny. I'm fussy that way. I'm fussy that way. But it turns out there are other people that are similarly fussy. one of the best of the best is my friend and my guest right now. Sidney Powell, an American hero.

I hate to embarrass you, Sydney, but welcome to the program. Thanks for everything you're doing and talking about. What can we talk about on this issue? You've been talking about it a lot. You've spoken about it on this program. What's happening right now? Because there's so many people who care about this. Thank God.

Yes. I know there are lots of places where citizens are trying to be. get hand counting of the vote passed. Dallas County was one of them, but the county kept throwing up obstacle after obstacle and saying there's this other thing you have to do. There's an additional thing you have to do just on and on. So apparently it's not going to happen in Dallas County this spring. I am personally convinced that until we get paper ballots that are handmarked and hand-counted, any use of a machine at any stage of the process will corrupt the process or can corrupt the process. process that will make it completely untrustworthy because any part of a computer program can be

hacked or programmed to begin with to do something wrong. And that's what has happened all across the country for frankly the last 20, 24 years, ever since a computer was first used in the election. Well, it sounds like common sense. So the question is, why would people be arguing against this? In other words, is it wrong to? conclude that they are simply corrupt? Is it wrong to conclude that they're simply criminals who want to get away with more crime? Is there any other conclusion you can make? What is the argument? I can't find another conclusion. They say that hand counting will be more expensive, blah, blah, blah, and not as reliable. Well, nothing can be less reliable than the machines.

we have a banking system that counts down to the penny accurately. And if there's the slightest discrepancy, it's a big problem. Here we're relying on machines to do our votes and count our votes. And we know that they're being manipulated and rigged and programmed wrong. There's no doubt about it any longer. And I think with the capture of Mr. Maduro, we may have even more information. I understand that- We captured Maduro?

What? Really? I don't know what. news you're reading. I haven't heard about that. Okay, so seriously, folks, with the capture of Maduro, do you think, Sydney, that part of the deal, part of the reason Trump did this, at least part of the reason, was because he believes that Maduro has the goods and will be willing to make a deal and spill the beans on Venezuela being a, you know, the beating heart of corruption in terms of votes around the world and specifically in this country.

Venezuela has been the site of numerous efforts by other countries to work with Venezuela to destroy us. Iran was building drones there. Of course, Maduro was selling oil to our enemies. That's part of why we had to go in and get him. But I think all of it, is wrapped up into one huge ball of corruption that includes elections that they spread internationally and corrupted. Gary Bernstein is a former CIA agent who has done, he's been working on this for the last five years nonstop, I think. And he has managed to get some Venezuelan whistleblowers and smart Atlantic whistleblowers to come forward and tell him everything. There's a fascinating interview with him on Laura Logan's ex-feed that is excellent. He explains it all.

It's essentially most of the things that I said back in 2020. And now he's got witnesses from inside Smartmatic to help prove it. So this should all come to a head. I mean, I'm hearing rumors that something big is going to happen within the next 10 days on the topic. I don't know if you can talk about this, but I cannot imagine what it's been like for you knowing these things for five years. and waiting for five years for this more and more to come out. I mean, I can relate to that on the tiniest level

because I knew five years ago that the election was stolen. I thought everybody should be up in arms. And most people were saying, you better not talk about it, but I thought, how despicable, what cowards. And so you were one of the brave ones. You stuck your neck out. You talked about this.

You suffered tremendously as a result of it. You have to be glad that finally, by the grace of God, this information seems to be getting out to the public. Yeah, I am very thankful, mainly because we need to fix it. But it is nice to know that what I said was true. I knew it at the time. I firmly believed it at the time. I had nothing to indicate otherwise.

All the facts were pointing in the direction of massive election fraud in 2020. But it's nice to have actual witnesses come forward and say what they knew from the inside. that's fantastic evidence. And Gary deserves great credit. He and his partner, Martine, deserve great credit for digging all this up and staying on it. Mike Lindell has been a hero. But do you believe President Trump is in the weeds on this, that he's actually aware of what's going on? I would think he would be. He's certainly been interested in it since 2020. He really wanted to do. something back then, but nobody standing around him in any official capacity would help him do it or even telling that he could. On that infamous December 18 meeting at the White House, that so much it's been written about, frankly, all I did was show him an executive order that Obama had signed

and a couple of other documents, including SISA FBI finding of international election interference already, which gave him the authority to use all presidential powers to do whatever needed to be done to straighten out the election. But of course, Pat Cipollone, his White House Council, and everybody around him was vehemently opposed to that. So here we've suffered the last previous four years with the Autopin administration and all kinds of things going wrong. We were on the brink of the country being destroyed, but thank God we got him elected by making it too big to rig. That's the only way he got elected. And we've got to get it straightened out now, or it will never be. and everybody knows it, everybody knows it.

And I knew as soon as they started piling lawsuits on me for billions of dollars that I was right over the target. If it had just been, if what I was saying was false, they could have just blown it off. But instead, I got sued by 10 different people in different courts across the country, including for $4 billion in the District of Columbia by Smartmatic and Dominion. And of course, you know Eric Coomer in Colorado and somebody in Arizona, somebody in South Carolina. I mean, I can't even count the number of lawsuits that were filed against me in different places, not to mention bar actions. My own Texas bar tried for four years to disbar me over it. And like I said, I knew what I was saying was true.

It was obvious to me. Well, when they come after you like that, you know. And that's the beauty of it. you realize that they are, it's an existential threat to them. If this stuff comes out, I guess my question is, do you think anyone will pay the price? Because I really can't think of anything more wicked. I keep saying, I've been saying it for five years. It's like putting a bullet in the head of Lady Liberty and Uncle Sam.

This is murdering America. This is murdering we the people. That's what this is. There's no hyperbole there. You end America, what, you know, what, what Iran would like to do, what China would like to do, what the Soviet Union would have loved to do you can do in this way. And these people have done in this way.

They've attempted to do it in this way. So it's astonishing to me that people wouldn't understand the gravity of it, that it doesn't get bigger than this. This is murdering the 250-year-old republic. That's what this is. And so anybody involved in that, it seems to me, is culpable. I'm not a lawyer. I have no idea what that might mean legally. Do you have any sense legally of what this would mean or whether anybody's going after anybody on this?

Because, again, these are crimes. These are crimes against the American people, crimes against the nation. They're the most serious crimes I could possibly think of. But yes, there are any number of criminal statutes that should or could be applied in different ways to punish those responsible for this. and that had better be done. I mean, it not only was a blow to labor lady liberty, it was a destruction of the rule of law. And the only way the rule of law can be used in this country is if we are fairly electing and cleanly electing our public officials to enforce it. And without the rule of law, we're no better than any third world country, which is exactly what they wanted to turn us into. China owns Venezuela almost, and of course Russia has its hand in the pot too. Cuba is directly tied to Venezuela, all the communists.

It was like the focal point of the communists to have things in Venezuela that could be a base even for getting into the United States. Not to mention all the gang members that Mr. Maduro sent up here to infiltrate our country. when you mentioned that meeting in the White House, December 18th, 2020, can you talk about that? Who was there? And I wonder, you mentioned one name, I guess the White House Council. What's the name? Pat Cipollone. I thought it was Chicolino from the Marx Brothers films.

It was not Chicolino. No. It was, but I wonder whether President Trump realizes that, These people sold him out. I think he knows it now. I definitely think he does. I mean, when I showed him the executive order that gave him all this authority and the FBI funding that existed already that triggered that authority, his ability to use it,

nobody told him either of those things. And this is, you know, six weeks after the election. Are you at liberty to say who some of these folks are? are you just mentioned that lawyer? Are you at liberty to mention the others who strongly advised him to leave this alone that he didn't have the authority? There was another of White House counsel there, like a deputy who was getting ready to leave already. I can't remember his name. Rudy was there. I'm not sure what he wanted. It wasn't clear what outcome he wanted from that. he of course thought the legislative process would help resolve the problem but it didn't and i'm trying to remember there were several other people uh eric hersman i think his name was who had some role in

the white house i'm not sure what that was i guess my sense correct me from wrong and i'm very happy to be wrong or to be corrected but it was my sense that there were people um around trump um the kind of people that we would now say are part of the Uniparty, part of the establishment, who they're made uncomfortable by figures such as yourself, Rudolph Giuliani, Jenna Ellis. They're made uncomfortable by some of the folks that really are warriors for liberty. These aren't the kind of people. These are mainstream figures that they would, they'd rather look the other way while Liberty and the rule of law is being murder. than be written about unpleasantly in the Wall Street Journal or the New York Times or the Washington Post.

And so it was my sense at the time that you and Rudy were that you were pushed out, that you were kind of characterized as your fringe, you're kind of, you're a little crazy. And we're going to go with the... They flat out call me crazy. Yeah, I heard that word a lot. But so who are the figures in this? I mean, I can't help but think that Mike Pence is one of those figures. Well, he was not in that meeting, but obviously he didn't think the election was stolen.

What really disturbs me is hearing that Susie Wiles didn't think the election was stolen and thought those of us that were saying that were crazy. That is something I read in a newspaper, I believe. So I don't know. That's true. Just before we go on, and I want, I want you. to continue on this line. But I want to be clear, ladies and gentlemen, it is possible for people to be wrong and to realize that they were wrong. In other words, there were people, I know people that were wrong on these issues and other issues. They were wrong on the COVID vaccine.

They were wrong on all kinds of stuff who eventually realized I was wrong. So that is always the hope that somebody like a Susie Wiles would have realized a very very much. Eventually, I was wrong. I was suckered because you know and I know that the mainstream conservative media, Fox News, they were not, you know, ringing the bell here and saying, hey, hey, it looks like the election was stolen. They were very happy, you know, to march along. And, you know, that's a, it's, I just can't think of ugly or anything uglier in modern

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That's savinglifeisrael.org. But I do think that over the last five years, some of these folks realized that they were wrong. At least that's my hope, as I say. The 2024 election was a stunning contrast to the 2020 election. I mean, just the difference in the number of votes should tell people that there were millions of votes manufactured in some fashion back in 2020, multiple millions, maybe up to 15 million even. It's just unbelievable. I think, I mean, many of us hoped that Mike Pence would on January 6th say, okay, folks, the least we can do is, you know, send some of the stuff back to the States,

give them 10 days. Was that your hope on that day? I think that was my hope on that day. It's so complicated. I mean, that would have been a very difficult position for Mr. Pence to take. I understand that. I do think it was warranted. But I think what should have happened is the Supreme Court should have ruled on cases that were pending before it and decided the issue as a matter of law.

For example, just last week, they decided that candidates have standing to sue to contest elections. Well, all four of my lawsuits in federal courts across the country were dismissed for lack of standing when we represented constitutional electors who another court have held are indeed candidates because they're elected to go count. go be the votes for the actual candidates. So none of our lawsuits should have been dismissed on standing. And one federal judge in Michigan actually sanctioned us $150,000 for having filed the lawsuit. I was under the impression that the Supreme Court said that, and this is again, four or five years ago, that the Supreme Court ruled that the Texas lawsuit, for example, that they didn't have standing. Am I getting that wrong? Did what? Was it not the Supreme Court that said that they didn't have standing to bring the suit?

I don't, I can't remember, Eric, whether it made it to the Supreme Court with an actual holding by the Supreme Court or whether a lower court held out and the Supreme Court didn't take it. I just, no, it would have had to go directly to the Supreme Court. So maybe they did hold out. I'd have to look back and see. I've forgotten. Some of those are blocked out. In which, no, it's just, I mean, it is complicated. And I think, listen, if we want to talk about how it is that evil works, one of the ways that evil works is by being complicated.

If something's complicated, many people will say, you know, it's too complicated. I need to move on to something I can understand. And I think that happened to a lot of people with the stolen 2020 election. It got confusing. It got complicated. A lot of people just want to move on with their lives. They weren't getting sued the way you were. And I think a lot of people didn't know what to make.

of it because there was so much fraud. There were so many kinds of fraud. Mike Lindell was talking about the machines. We had my friend, Denise Jusza, make a film in which I'm privileged to appear called 2000 Mules about stuffing the ballot boxes. There were so many different kinds of fraud that I think a lot of people got confused. And that's ultimately why it was able to happen. and that the people doing this were aware of that. And of course you say computerized algorithm shaved votes and people's eyes glaze over and don't understand how that works or what that means.

But that's part of exactly what happened. I mean, you're right. They used every manner and means of fraud that anyone could think of and even some none of us could think up. It was that bad. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that, you know, I've said it before. I don't know if I said it to you,

but it's funny because when people talk about Trump being a narcissist, the good side of being narcissistic on any level is that you care whether you won. And so I think Trump does take it personally, and I'm really glad he takes it personally, because the whole nation should take it personally, because the election was never stolen from Donald Trump. It was stolen from we the people. We the people get to choose whom we want representing us, and this was stolen from we,

the people. But I'm glad that President Trump takes it personally. He should take it personally. He's been elected three times and he's only gotten to serve twice. So it is, it's at least interesting. I want to go back to

what you mentioned about Vice President Pence. It did seem to me that he could have done something that day and that he didn't. Is it your contention?

that he could not do anything that day, that it was then too late? No, it's my belief that I don't know enough detail on that area of law to really say one way or the other. I know they're good lawyers on both sides of that issue, and I haven't personally dived into it to form an opinion myself. Well, I think what's interesting about Mike Pence is that I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and say, perhaps, he got that wrong, but maybe he had some reasons to get it wrong. I was very unhappy, but I was at least willing to say it's complicated. But things that he said after that made it clear to me, I mean, that he was on the wrong side of a number of issues.

I mean, he dared to say that the president asked him to choose between Donald Trump and the Constitution, which I think is a. a really horrible libel slander to make against President Trump. That is absolute nonsense. He wasn't asking you to choose against the Constitution and shame on you for saying that. And then again, if people don't believe that Pence meant that, the evidence that he did not endorse President Trump in the 2024 election. That's the most telling grievous piece of evidence against former Vice President Pence,

that he would not endorse President Trump when Kamala Harris was on the ballot to be the next president of the United States. That just takes my breath away. And the same for George W. Bush. That's terrifying. Yes, indeed. I think the issue of how the Electoral College works is something that needs to be looked at by the Supreme Court. Because I can't, subjectively speaking, without knowing the law and detail in the area, it seems to me like there has to be a remedy in Congress. for a fraudulent election, which this clearly was. And Congress has to be able to stop that, whether it's Vice President Pence or all of Congress. But I don't think his function was to just rotly count the ballots that were there

and not consider all the fraud that was out there. Because as I've always said in the Supreme Court has said, fraud vitiates everything. I mean, frankly, if the 2020 election is proven as fraudulent as we believe it was, then every federal judge Biden appointed needs to get off the bench because they were fraudulently installed. Does that follow? Would that follow? If someone has the fortitude to do that. If someone has the fortitude to do that, who would need to have that fortitude?

I guess Department of Justice would have to take it on. Then we may have some problems. Yeah, maybe the president can do it. I don't know. But between the auto pin and the fact that Biden wasn't supposed to be. president at all. I don't understand how people appointed by him could remain in their positions. Hey there, folks, I want to tell you about a coffee company I genuinely admire 10 Boom Coffee, inspired by the faith and courage of the 10 Boom family. This isn't just great coffee. It's coffee with a mission, ethically sourced, expertly roasted, and rooted in Christian values.

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all things work together for good for those that love the Lord and are called according to his purposes, including bad things like a stolen election. And I think there are many people have said it. I've said it many times. Mike Lindell has said it many times that if the 2020 election hadn't been stolen

and we hadn't been forced to suffer under the fraudulent regime, of Joe Biden, a lot of the stuff that has come out would not have come out. And a lot of the people who have since woken up would have not woken up. So the horror that we all had to go through does have at least some silver lining. And I am hopeful that the news is getting out. So what is your sense of where things

stand now? You mentioned that there are a number of folks who have been working on this. Is there anything that we haven't covered? Not that I can think of, except to your point, about the prior four years that we all had to suffer through. I certainly agree with you. And God does work in mysterious ways. I think if we had actually found this out back in 2020, the problem would have, of his first administration, all those problems they created would have carried forward into the next four years. And he wouldn't have been able to get anything done.

We wouldn't know everything we know now. So, you know, God works for good and takes bad things and turns them into good things. And I think that's exactly what's happened here with President Trump's re-election. And I hope he knows that. I think he knows that. I'm not sure how deeply ingrained it is in him. But I think that is exactly what happened. God wants this straightened out.

He wants this country returned to him. He divined it to begin with. As you know from the new book you're working on, this country was founded on biblical principles. That's all there is to it. And we've got to return to that. There is no doubt about that. And you mentioned my book. My book on the Revolution, I have to say, I am so astonished to see the biblical roots of this country. It is inescapable. There is nothing clearer. And we have drifted so far from that. You have so many. people ridiculously talking about the Enlightenment and Jefferson, you think that that is like 2% of the people who created this nation were Enlightenment deists. The rest were fire-breathing Christians of one stripe or another and everything that we have in this country,

including the phrase, all men are created equal. That is a Christian value. That doesn't come out of the secular enlightenment, it cannot. And so I really do think that by God's grace, we are returning to our foundations. That's what all this is about right now that we're living through. And it's funny, you know, when when you think about it, if Trump had been inaugurated in January of 2021, he would have had around him all of the deadbeats, some of whom you've named, all of these establishment figures, rhinos, who couldn't care less about the liberty bequeathed to us by the founders who only care about whatever rhinos care about, being accepted in establishment, elite circles. Trump would have had those people, as you said, in his second term.

So it really is an extraordinary thing that when he was inaugurated a year ago, it was a whole different Trump and a whole different administration. And they're doing things now that we know they never would have done if he'd been reelected or if he'd been inaugurated in 2021. I think that's exactly right. I just. We wouldn't know a fraction of the things we know now if he had gone into his second consecutive term. And it would have been plagued again with Russia hoax and one fraud generated by the Democratic. after the other, and we wouldn't have any of the knowledge that we now have that we need to fight this.

Do you think, we touched on it earlier, but do you think that Maduro is that part of this, what's happening, is that this information is going to come out? I know Stephen Miller has kind of teased some stuff. It's not clear. It's not clear, but I can't imagine that to save his own neck, Mr. Maduro wouldn't. talk a lot about everything. Right, right. And he knows it. He knows it all. I mean, he came in after Chavez, who started it all to begin with, and just continued it.

And who do you think ultimately was behind this? Was it our own CIA? Was it our own deep state, you know, turning what they were doing around the world on our own country, realizing they could get away with it? I think that's entirely possible. Let me put it this way. There's no way it could have happened in 2020 without the knowledge and complicity of the CIA and the NSA. Whether they were the driving force or not, I don't know, but they didn't stop it. And they had to have known it was going on because there are people.

There's so many back doors, as they call them, into these computerized systems, that anybody who understands how to hack anything can get in there and watch it, whether they do anything wrong or not. And we know from our own research that there was a place where certain people could go and watch it. So they had to know. They had to be a part of it in some fashion. And it wouldn't surprise me, frankly, if they hadn't created the software to begin with and then given it to the Cubans to get to the Venezuelans, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, I hope this is all going to come out. You and I and others will never, ever stop talking about this and caring about it.

we get to do so by God's grace. So Sydney Powell, thank you so much for being my guest. We'll talk to you again soon. You're welcome, Eric. Thank you. While the corrupt federal elites have been quietly building wealth through cryptocurrency, hardworking American patriots have been left behind. Today, I want to tell you about metaxis crypto.com. They're bringing access to cryptocurrency wealth to real Americans. Crypto is supercharging President Trump's America First economic miracle, and now you can be a part of it. I partnered with Block Trust IRA because their mission perfectly aligns with President Trump's Make America Great Again agenda, smashing down the barriers between loyal patriots and the financial freedom they deserve. Their animus AI trading platform works 24-7 analyzing market data and executing advanced crypto strategies

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