The Eric Metaxas Show - #45 - Steve Deace

Episode Date: January 28, 2026

A wide ranging conversation with @SteveDeaceShow on Minneapolis as a national flashpoint, why the Covid era playbook could be repeating, and what Trump and federal authorities do next as blue city leadership resists enforcement. TIMESTAMPS(0:00) Intro(0:15) Steve Deace Joins(2:34) Is Minneapolis Ground Zero?(8:25) Blue City States And Political Will(11:08) How The Covid Playbook Returns(16:55) Why There Is No Deal(23:03) Pressure Points On Tim Walz(27:23) Is Tom Homan The Turning Point?(32:05) Who Must Be Made An Example?

Hey, the folks, welcome back. I get to talk to Steve Dase and you get to listen to me or watch me talk to Steve. You know, you're one of the brave, great voices out there. It's always a joy to see you and to hear from you. Thanks for coming on. You bet, brother. Staying back at you. Thank you. Thank you. So much, so much happening. What should we talk about? Where do you want to start? Well, you know, this story is rapidly evolving in real time. You know, even on my own show, I was very careful about how much to address things in the specific. But I think in general, Minneapolis is ground zero for the cold civil war in America. And I think that, Eric, we're at a COVID inflection point. Absolutely. Absolutely. I hope the president has learned valuable lessons. I mean, you, I just want to be clear because my audience, they won't all know this. But you and I both knew that Operation Warpsbeat and the vaccine were from the pit of hell. We always knew that.

But we saw President Trump get fooled. And it just proves he's human. But he got fooled by that. And we saw what happened. we also saw him to some extent get fooled by the George Floyd stuff, by that chaos, not wanting to respond, worried about the election in the fall, and basically got played. And the question is whether with regard now to Minnesota, as you've correctly framed it, he has learned that lesson.

And I have to say, I don't think the president, has a bigger fan than me, but I'm not necessarily convinced that he's learned that lesson with regard to what's cooking right now in Minnesota. Well, one thing about the devil Eric is he has a greatest hits album, and he just rewax the same songs every generation. You know, some eras, they're folk music, some they're auto tune, you know, some it's a concerto, right? It just, the stylists change, but the fundamental.

plots and lyrics are the same. And so just like, well, Minneapolis is a unique place with problems. It's a novel coronavirus, right? In fact, they already skipped a few steps and started storming churches to shut them down. It took them a few months to get with COVID, right? Just as you saw Fauci and Birx get elevated as counter voices to the president and his administration, you're watching Jacob Fry and Tim Walls, who should have both already been arrested by now, particularly Walls, You're watching them get elevated to be alternative voices, to be taken seriously. The new you want your grandma to die is you have to leave Minneapolis or there'll be more blood on your hands. And what ended up happening is the president ended up buckling with lockdowns.

And then once, you know, you couldn't obviously implement those from the federal level, so they had to be done at the state level. And once blue cities and what I call city states, you know, Austin and Texas, you know, Dallas and Texas, major blue city areas, even in red states, once those blue governments got a hold of lockdowns, they were going to be able to do whatever in the Sam Hill they wanted with them. And I promise you, sleeper cells in Los Angeles and Portland and all and everywhere else are watching what happens here in Minneapolis.

And if we fold here, if we buckle here, you're going to have another summer of love. Mark my words. And just like the president struggled to get back on, you know, on message. and in control of the agenda after lockdowns, the same thing will occur right here. So I'm a big, you know, to quote the great prophet, Wayne Greske, you skate to where the puck is going, not where the puck is, right? Okay.

And so I'm big at getting out in front of things and not just reacting to them. And I absolutely would love to be labeled a panicking two, three days a week from now. I'll be greatly relieved at that, okay? But I see warning signs. And that's why I want to speak up now. because Eric, I want to win. All right. Everything I'm saying right now, whether it's critical or complimentary, is about winning. It is win or go home time right now in the Cold Civil War.

There's no negotiation to happen. It's win or go home. It's past, fail. And I don't know about your audience, but I'm pretty sure they agree with me that I like Cold Civil War's better when my side wins. Well, listen, we have to frame this. The news is kind of funny, Steve, isn't it? Like what a bad job, you know, Foxx? news does or whatever in framing this stuff and how the media really is monolithically leftist

and anti-Trump. But even when you tune into something like Fox, half the time, they're not, you know, they don't get it. And so it's why I hope many people have turned to alternative media to your show, to my show, to a number of places where they can go. But this idea of what, like when you say, what is actually happening right now, what is happening and you've said it, this is a civil war, ladies, and gentlemen, you have, it's just different. I keep saying we had an existential crisis in the

revolution. We had an existential crisis in the civil war. We're now in the third existential crisis of our history. And, you know, there's some stuff that's different. Now it's globalists, Marxists, whatever. It's a different coalition of evil. But they want to bring America down. And how are they doing it? Well, they'll do it any way they can. But what has happened is happening right now, it's like somebody is firing on Fort Sumter. How can somebody like a governor of Minnesota be saying, you know what? We're an autonomous zone. We're going to do what we want here. We're not going to let, even though we the people elected Donald Trump, we're not going to go along with that. And we're going to allow, you know, the lunatic mobs, these very organized lunatic

mobs to resist with their whistles and obstructing federal law enforcement, obstructing ICE. We're going to allow all that. You and I know there's a moment here. If the president does not stand against this in an heroic way, in the way that Lincoln did, we can lose everything. I mean, this is a moment where the left, it's their playbook. They do every wicked thing.

And then when something bad happens, they play victim, just like they do with George Floyd, just like Hamas did. When they said, oh, you killed a child in Gaza, they pretend like we never did anything wrong and look what you've done. And they have the media on their side. It's all very emotional. We're at a moment like that. 100%. And as I like to say, we're not a nation of laws and we never have been. We're a nation of political will.

And we always will be. The laws are what actually get informed. not what gets passed or ratified. Right. And so right now, the government of Minnesota is claiming they are the government of the United States of America. And the question will be, will the people we elect permit them to do that? And in many respects, I think we need to start understanding that these blue states and

these blue city states, because, you know, Minnesota is just a couple hours north of me. I live in Iowa, as you know. And 80% of Minnesota is Alabama, except for Minneapolis, St. Paul, Bloomington, and Duluth. The rest of the state is basically Alabama. But it's just the population in those four places is so overwhelming that it overwhelms the rural populations and the rest of the state. And so what you also have, therefore, are not just blue states, but blue city states. And they're acting as if they're the new Jim Crowers. They are saying that we get to you, they're American only in that they're on this landmass, but they get to use the power that they are given to disrupt the constitutional union and

reshape it as they see fit. And they're going to get away with it unless somebody stops them. And it's going to take more than just the way they're able to cheat in these elections, the way they're able to gerrymander while we have to fight, you know, scratch and claw to get the state of Indiana, for example, to behave similarly. They've stacked the deck. And so the only way out now is through. You have to confront them. And I think one of the things that you've seen with President Trump is generational extraordinary success on the international stage, because I think he recognizes and learn this, you know, in the world of high finance and real estate, that there's a lot of, you know, people in Muslim countries that are more Arab than Muslim. And that they were totally

fine cutting deals if we understood that. And I think he got that. And I think that's why he's had unprecedented success in the Middle East. Well, what we have here at home now, there's no deals to be made. It's defeat or victory. There's no deal to be made. This is not an art of the deal time. There's no offer. I go back to the president's first term. Remember, he offered them amnesty for all the dreamers. And Schumer and Pelosi turned it down and shut the government down instead because it was all or nothing. There's no deal.

This is a very important point. And I know I said this on X the other day. It's like dealing with radical Islamic suicide bombers. Yes. You have to understand what you're dealing with. They are happy. die if they can kill you while they're blowing themselves up. I mean, Eric,

Eric, you can't negotiate with those people and you need to know that. And that's where we are. We've got suburbanites in Minneapolis, leaving the comfort of their homes, of their posh suburban homes to run down and become, and glid their body to the cause to be martyrs, to drive suicide by ice.

You are not negotiating with that. Go read lives of TikToks, lips of TikTok's X thread right now. Read her account and you're going to see just health care worker after health care.

I won't operate on you. Here's how you poison Republican men. People with medical licenses just putting this out online. They can't wait for you to know who they really are. They know there's a throng of social media simps that will applaud them

and give them the affirmation they want. How many teachers couldn't wait to show you who they really were and bask in the blood of Charlie. martyrdom last September. We are post-negotiation. We are post-argument. You will win or you will go home. There is not an art of the deal here. There's not a 4D chess here. There is not a leverage play here. The leverage play is, I stepped on you and you broke. Or you stepped on me and I broke. That is the play. Hey, folks, before we get back to our guests, I just want to say a lot of people donate when

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This is practical life-saving support. If you want your donation to have direct measurable impact, this is one of the clearest ways to do it. Go to savinglifeisrael.org. That's savinglifeisrael.org. I hope we can put this conversation on the air today because I have to tell you, everything you're saying is exactly correct and very powerful and to the point. Let me, let me say this.

I think there are many people that would like to think we live in a world where there's always a negotiation. But let's look at it spiritually. Can you negotiate with a demon? Now, I'm not saying these people are demons. They're not. They're human beings. But what you're dealing with is a satanic spirit. that needs to win.

There is no, there's no off ramp for the satanic spirit. They must win. There's, there's no, okay, I'll take that deal. They must win. And we can sort of coexist for a while, coexist, coexist, coexist. And then when you get to this moment where I'm going to cast you out, satanic spirit, now it's, anything goes. We don't know what they're going to do.

So in America right now, these forces we're talking about, they know this is an existential crisis for them. If they don't win, if they can continue to do what they've been doing, they're going to be put out of business forever. If we have fair elections, if we get rid of, you know, illegal immigrants voting, if we bring things back to some sense of reality, they're going to lose everything. They've been working for decades on this. So it's all or nothing and they're happy to burn it all down, basically. And so you're exactly right that, you know, it's kind of like in the Civil War. Imagine if, you know, our side said, well, so many people have died. Let's let's just let it, you know, let them have the South.

It's game, it's game over. You lose the whole country at that point. That's kind of where we are right now. And it's hard for us to think that there's not a deal. It's hard for us not to think, well, we can't, but we're at a moment, which is, it's a new moment, basically. And whether President Trump can get this, I hope everyone will pray for him every day because this is a big, big deal right here. There's no question about it. And I think it's very possible the events of this week and how they ultimately play out could determine, just like COVID did, that what we're talking about the rest of the year and the way we are talking about it.

If they are permitted any level of standing or agency here, then buckle down in the rest of these blue city states around the country. You're going to see similar behavior in order to bring this administration to its knees. And then if we lose this midterm, all we're doing next week, next year is impeachia Palusa, but it won't just be Trump. All the people you really like, heck Seth, Rubio, all of them, they're all getting RFK Jr. They're all getting impeached. And so, you know, there's pluses in my ultimate. Ultimately, worldview is destiny. And there have been a tremendous amount of pluses in having someone who's just a craven negotiator like Trump in this period of history. There have been

numerous positives to it. But we have come now to the end of the negotiating phase. We have come to the end of it now. And I think what the president has to see and his team has to see is there were two options here. And frankly, I would have preferred the first option, which is, you know what, we're going to do political patronage. If you voted for us, we're going to take care of you. And if you didn't, we're not. You got what you voted for. You guys wanted more of this evil.

Choke on it. We're going to go Romans 1. All right. I mean, I mean, God removes his restraining hand. We remove the restraining hand of common grace and natural law. You guys want the lawlessness. You're not passing the buck. You're not billing the rest of the country for it.

Own that stuff. Like my favorite episode of the Waltons, when Grandpa Zebediah Walton took Jim Bob up to the top of Walton's mountain because he wanted to learn how to smoke cigarettes, but he thought it made him cool. So Grandpa Zebedai, went to the general store, bought every cigarette they had, Eric, and made him smoke them all until he choked the rest of the episode.

Now, that's what I would have done. I just said, you know what? We're not helping any of you people. We're helping our own people. The people that voted for us, they're getting the best taxes, they're getting the best care. That's what they voted for. We're going to give you what you voted for.

You can have it. California everywhere you live. But aren't some people saying this? In other words, aren't some people saying... They're saying it now, but it's too late. Okay, but explain that. Why is it too late? Go ahead.

Because we went in. Once you go in and step on a shibbolift of the dam, you have to smash it. You cannot. It's a spiritual, it's a spiritual principle. If you cast out a demon and don't replace it with something, what returns a seven more just like it or worse. All right? So to me, the smarter play would have been, we're just going to let these blue cities choke on their own vomit and take care of our own people and make an example out of them. But that's not the play we made.

The play we made was to go into these cities and to make a stark contrast. Well, now we have to see it. through to the end. If you go in and walk away, they will take this as victory and it will emboldened them to do this, then this is, this becomes like it almost a smaller scale domestic Afghanistan. You essentially have put a death, put a death warrant on every ice agent and every blue city state in the rest of the country now, because they know, they know we'll buckle, they know we're weak in the knees. We know, they know we really don't mean it. Furthermore, we have exposed the fact that this, we had a literal replacement theory implemented

over the last few years. And so if we're not willing to see this through, then I have no idea why they would respect or fear us on any other level whatsoever. And it's game over. If we allow the open border regime to be confirmed and don't deport all these people, then we're undone as a people in its game over at that point. Now, why do you suppose Trump would have made that call to go into these places and not to let them, you know, suffer the consequences of their beliefs and actions? Because I think that Trump, I think Trump, remember, it comes from one of America's greatest cities, maybe the greatest city America ever once had.

I think he's got a heart for these cities. You're talking about the city that I'm in right now, my friend. The city you're in right now, yes. I think he's got a heart for them. I think he loves to show that contrary to the branding of who he is, that that's not who he is, and he can work with these people and that there's plenty of people in these cities that we shouldn't give up on and that really want to return to Americana and would work with us. And I think it's just that simple. I think it goes to the heart of his identity where he comes from, his own worldview. But again, I think at some point you have to accept, you just have to accept that what you're up.

against is a zero-sum game. And there's not a negotiation. And that's where I believe we are. Well, yeah, he's afraid of being branded authoritarian and having it stick. Can I address that for a second? Yeah. The thing about our side that drives me nuts is we consistently get labeled, like, for example, on abortion. Hey, you guys want to make every teenage mom, you know, bleed out from a coat hanger in every alley in America. Well, we get called that no matter what we do anyway. That's the point. So why don't we actually pass the legislation that we wanted that we believe in? Right. If they're going to call us that no matter what we do, stop trying to be reasonable. Correct. The same thing applies here. You know, if Tom Holman, not, you know, having interviewed Tom, I can't believe he would do this,

but just let me illustrate absurdity by being absurd as Rush used to say. If Tom Holman shows up in Minneapolis in a two-two and a white flag and says, we're here to leave and we're sorry, forgive us. Tomorrow, is MSNBC going to run with Trump as Hitler tomorrow? What do you think? Are they doing that tomorrow? Eric? And the answer is yes. Yeah.

So why get all the blowback for what we say we're going to do and what we claim to believe and then not follow through so we might get some of the benefit for it? No, that's exactly. Listen, that is exactly correct. And we have to be clear. And I don't know that Trump is going to listen to this conversation. Maybe somebody in his administration will listen to this conversation. this is the George Bush play.

This is the John McCain play. It's like, well, we're going to be conservative, but, but we still want, we have some friends in the media that will treat us right. It's a compromise that you lose and lose and lose and lose. And at some point, and this is what you're saying, and I'm agreeing, you have to say, no, we're going to do what's right. And we're going to, you know what? What it boils down to is like, we're going to treat.

trust that God is going to have our back, or we're going to trust that whatever happens, if I do the right thing that the American people will have the wisdom to see that I did the right thing, that I made a difficult decision, but they're going to be behind me if I show courage and do the right thing. And that's the moment where we are right now. That's that's that tricky moment. I mean, listen, one out of one out of five black men voted for Trump in the last election, an amazing stat. One out of five black men did. Trump won Hispanic men by 10 points. Another amazing stat. Now imagine you're one of those two groups of people. All right. And you see Trump go into an area that is your kind of neighborhood. And he says, hey, we're going to clean this thing up.

We're going to clean it up. All right. Two left wing effeminate white guys throw a hit through a prissy hissie fit. And the Trump administration turns tail and runs. Voting for him again. Do you think, Think of all the heat you just took from all from from auntie nana for bucking the family legacy for going against the the family brand and voting for Trump. All right. And and he says we're going to go in. We're going to clean up these cities. We're going to make them places where you can walk the streets like you could in Rudy's in Rudy's New York City in the early 2000. You can walk the streets with your kids again at night.

We're going to do that. And you go in there and to a feminine left wing white guys, all right, who pee sitting down, push you out of your. One of them we already ought to be arrested and in prison for fraud. Push you out. That guy's not going to that. That dude's not going to the barbershop and fighting for you anymore. Don't you think that Trump, my guess would be that Trump has the goods on Waltz. And Waltz knows this.

And that Waltz has an incentive to make a deal somehow because he knows he's in big trouble. He's dead. That is possible. Walls also is getting, Walls also is getting. pressure from the chamber people against him, right? This time the Minneapolis business community isn't painting the George Floyd over the door saying, please don't ransack our businesses. A bunch of them put out a statement on Sunday night saying, this has to end. We can't live like this. This is just not conducive to business. You guys need to figure some stuff out an adult here.

So there are pressure points on walls. There are. So you can use those against him. But that's not the same as a deal. You can use those to get him to back down, but you cannot, there's no deal to be made with a guy like Tim Walls, at least not one that he plans on keeping. Hey there, folks, I want to tell you about a coffee company. I genuinely admire 10 Boom coffee, inspired by the faith and courage of the 10 Boom family. This isn't just great coffee. It's coffee with a mission, ethically sourced, expertly roasted, and rooted in Christian values. If you care about what you consume and who it supports, this is coffee you can feel. about go to 10 boom coffee.com. Use promo code Eric for 15% off your order. That's 10 boom coffee.com

code Eric. Well, certainly I would never trust in walls, but I guess I wonder, you know, whether Waltz and Fry will comply. Again, I don't know the pressure that's put on them, but somebody was saying that yes, that they'll make a deal, you know, to hand over all of the criminal illegals to ICE or whatever. And I don't know why they would make that deal unless they had to make the deal because Waltz knows it's not going to go well for him when the Somali fraud is exposed and his complicity with that is exposed. Well, of your walls, what's the precedent of people we put in prison for defrauding the American taxpayer that he would be afraid of, Eric? Well, I guess this is the question. Do we believe that? That's the thing. See,

we're skipping a step. All right? You and I are old enough to remember happy days. All right. Right. In the pilot of Happy Days, someone made the bad mistake of going into the men's room with the Fonz. Terrible life. They made a bad life choice. And every episode of Happy Days they're in, at one point, Fonz would just get fed up with some numskull and say, hey, would you like to join me in the men's room? Except you call it my office. My office, correct. And the reputation had been cemented and they knew better. And everybody was like, I'm good. I'm good. We're good here, right, and back down. We haven't made an example out of anybody yet. Once we make an example out of people, then we can we can make the maneuvers that you're talking about. But we have not made that example out of anybody. In fact, they shot our guy in the face and that was after they tried to put him in prison for 95 years, all right? We've not made an example. We have to make an example

out of somebody. Somebody must be made an example out of if we cannot make an example out of Tim Walz, who already decided not to run again in the face of all the fraud. And if we can't make an example out of him, I have no idea then who would we possibly make an example out of? Someone must be made. This is parenting 101. This is everything. This is any negotiation 101.

If you're the guy at the table saying, I can't afford to lose, you've already lost. Right. All right. So someone must be made an example out of. A community must be made an example out of. So it's a cautionary tale.

so that everybody still knows what Sodom and Gaborah means. It's been 4,000 years. Everybody knows. An example must be made. We've not made an example out of anybody yet. Well, that's the question because you talk about political will, and that's exactly right. Who cares what the laws are if they're not being enforced? I don't know if it's Pam Bondi.

I don't know exactly what's going on. But Trump has to understand everything is on the line for him. This is, this is on him. I think he does understand it. If I had to guess the conversations with Fry and with walls were to buy him some time, give home and time to get into place. He's making a lineup change there. Okay.

And so I think that I think that someone's getting benched and another player that's been, that's proven to be a star player in every other game he's played, I think he's being called in to take that place. So let's get my best player in place. For now, right now, don't have Homan in place. So let me buy some time. See, if I can get these things to simmer down for a day or two

until Homan gets there. He's an adult male, a rarity in our culture today. All right. He can get there. He knows what he's up against. I mean, I heard from Tom right from, I heard right from Tom himself. His family's in constant hiding and under armed guard for all the threats he faces.

So he knows what we're up against. So let me get my guy in place. Let me get my star player in place, right? In the meantime, let's stop the bleeding. All right. I'll put a better team. I think that's what I hope. is happening here, all right?

That we are doing, we're getting the T.O. baby. We're calling a time out. All right. We're going to get our best lineup into the game because clearly we didn't have it in the game up until this point. And I think Tom represents among the best that we have. Well, no. That's at least what I'm hoping is happening.

No, he's amazing. Tom Holman is amazing. I've heard him speak about, you know, the reality of trafficking of children. the sex trafficking of children on the southern border. This is real for him. And it's really beautiful to see a man who is as strong as he is and as tender-hearted. I mean, that's what you want. You want both, right?

And who's not going to back down. I think he's that guy. I don't know what it means that Bovino's taken out. I'm not sure what's going on there. Do you have any sense of that? I don't. So my sense is, This is what I hope is happening.

All right. My hope is we are stalling. Yeah. Until Tom Homan is in place. Right. That is my hope. I also think whenever Trump talks about having a great phone call, he'll have a great phone call with Putin, with Kim Jong-un, with Gavin Newsom.

You know, he has these great phone calls. He's always kind of playing and spinning brilliantly, really. He'll talk to anybody, whatever it is. you know, he'll have a momdani into the, to the Oval Office. Right. He does this stuff. It's, he's, he's crazy like that on a, on a, on a brilliant level. Typically, he's crazy like that.

So we don't really know exactly, uh, what is going on. But I, listen, I'm betting on this president all day long. I don't believe that God saved him from a bullet in the head for nothing. I really believe that it's God's will, that this nation be saved, that we be restored to the founder's vision, that the whole world will be blessed as we thrive in this country. I really believe that's what's going on. But what I always say, Steve, is we are in a war. When you're in a war, you know, you don't say, well, do we win or do we lose? It's like, okay, you win, but it's a war.

People die. There are casualties. you have to fight. You will suffer. That's what a war is. So yes, you win, but you don't win. You don't get to skip to the end. And right now, we're in a war.

I believe God's chosen Donald Trump to lead. And I think good will come of it. But I do think that, you know, this is one of those times that when right after he was elected, there was so much elation that I said to a number of people, I said, listen, folks, this is not going to be. a cakewalk here. So he's in now. Okay.

So we get to, now we get to fight. Now we get to fight. But we're going to fight. There's a war ahead. And we're seeing it right now. We've been waiting. Here it is. And so the question is what happens next?

We're just about out of time. So final thoughts, my friend. There's so much going on in the world today. I don't even know. We haven't talked about Iran. We haven't talked about Venezuela. This is a time that you have to, if you're Trump, you have to assess your generals where your resources are allocated, right? There's peacetime conciliator.

You and I are big movie buffs, right? There's peacetime concilerries. There's wartime conciliaries. All right. And right now for Minneapolis, for Minneapolis requires a wartime conciliary, which is why I think a substitute is being called in. And another player has been put into the game. And so what I hope is happening is that everything that we have seen that is making, people like us nervous is a stall tactic to get Tom in place, who is clearly a war, the kind of

wartime conciliary that this moment calls for. But eventually, we are going to have to make an example out of somebody. If we don't make an example out of somebody, you don't win chess by collecting pawns. You have checkmate against a queen, the royalty. We must make an example out of somebody, Eric. We're going to have to do that. We're going to frog march Obama and Hillary Clinton. I say that by faith. I claim that. Listen, there's so much going on. It's just a joy to get your perspective because you see it as it is, my friend.

So it's important what you have said that we need to make an example of someone. We need to show. We do this on the international level all the time. Right? People know we're not messing around. We're not messing around. And when Trump says something, surprise, he means it. Like everybody's all worried about all the money that guitaries are spending.

You know what they're spending that money? They saw what Trump did to the Iranians. That's what they're like, what happened to us? All right. We prefer to live. So start buying people off. Yeah. That's exactly right.

And so the question is what's going to happen on the domestic level. Steve Days, God bless you. Thanks for being my guest. Thank you by the same view. While the corrupt federal elites have been quietly building wealth through cryptocurrency, hardworking American patriots have been left behind. Today, I want to tell you about metaxis crypto.com. They're bringing access to cryptocurrency wealth to real Americans.

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