The Eric Metaxas Show - #52 - Ken Fish/Brent Dusing

Episode Date: February 5, 2026

I spoke with Ken Fish about a sign I witnessed, what it could mean, and why discernment matters as church scandals surface. I then had a wide ranging conversation with Brent Dusing of @TruPlayGames on Big Tech discrimination, kids content, and why parents should pay attention to platforms like Roblox. TIMESTAMPS(0:00) Intro(0:25) Ken Fish Joins The Show(1:00) Why The Hawk And Dove(10:11) Is God Cleaning Up Church(16:20) How “Prophecy” Was Faked(36:49) Brant Dusing Joins The Show(38:28) Are Google And TikTok Discriminating(1:00:00) Roblox Warning And TruePlayTODAY'S SPONSORS: BlockTrust IRA: https://metaxascrypto.com Help Save Lives in Israel TODAY: https://savinglifeisrael.org Legal Help Center - Get Free Legal Help Today: https://legalhelpcenter.com MyPillow — Save BIG with code ERIC: https://mypillow.com ten Boom Coffee— Save 10% with code ERIC: https://tenboom.coffee

Instagram teen accounts have automatic protections for what teens see and who can contact them. Plus, time management tools. And Instagram will continue adding built-in safety features to help create age-appropriate experiences. Learn more about teen accounts and Instagram's ongoing work to protect teens online at Instagram.com slash teen accounts. Hey, the folks, welcome back. As I warned you, I'm going to be talking about spiritual things. If you don't believe in God or hate God, this is for you. You need to hear this.

My friend, my guest is Ken Fish. That's his real name, okay? It's not some made-up stage name. His real name is Ken Fish. And Ken is the founder and executive director of Orbis Ministries, Orbis Ministries. He's been on the program many times before. Ken, always a joy to have you. Thanks for coming on today.

Yeah, it's great to be back, Eric. Good to see you. I wanted to talk to you. I want to talk to you about anything you want to talk about. But the other day, you and I were on the phone, and I said, Ken, I've got to tell you about this thing that I spoke about on this program a few days ago. A lot of people may be listening to us right now are unfamiliar with it. So I will restate it as briefly as possible. Okay, ladies and gentlemen, so this is what I'm going to discuss with Ken Fish.

Something happened to me a week ago, a little bit of a week ago. So Saturday a week ago, nine days ago. I was in Connecticut working on my, finishing my book on the American Revolution, which is going to be a blockbuster, perhaps literally. And I heard a boom, boom, like, did somebody just knock on the door? What is that? I'm upstairs. So I go downstairs.

I open the door. There's nobody there. So obviously nobody knocked on the door, but I heard a bang, bang. And I look immediately to my left. And right there, about eight feet from my eyes, is a hawk with a dove in its talons. And it was startling to see, for a number of reasons, it was startling to see a hawk that up close. I think maybe once before I've seen a hawk sort of close, never seen a hawk with a dove in its talons ever in my life. I mean, grew up in Danbury, Connecticut.

I've just never seen anything like this. And here it is. And it seems like I'm supposed to see it because I hear the bang, bang, and I go downstairs and I open the door and there it is eight feet away. So it sort of felt significant to me. It certainly was on any level startling. It is further startling that it doesn't fly away as soon as I open the door. It's just there with the dove in its talents almost so I can really register this.

I'm looking at this. and obviously it immediately has symbolic feeling that it's more than just what it is. Perhaps it's not, but it certainly feels that way because it's a dove, an innocent dove, in the talons of a hawk. So after a few seconds of it not moving, I kind of hit the wall to kind of frighten it, and it flies away with the dove in its talons. So the whole thing was remarkable, startling, affecting, but what does it mean? I don't know.

So I go back to working on my book. I forget about it. The next morning, that night I drove alone back to New York City where I live. Suzanne had not been with me in Connecticut. And the next morning, we're having a quiet time where it was Sunday, the day of the storm a week ago. And we're reading through Isaiah together. And I come upon the birds of prey. It says something about birds of prey. And it reminds me as we're reading through like, oh, I got to tell Suzanne about the hawk yesterday. So I tell Suzanne the story that I just told. and Suzanne gets this look on her face and then she says, yesterday, she was up on the Upper East side, not far from where we live, visiting a friend, an older woman who has an apartment

with a terrace, you know, kind of very nice to have a terrace on the Upper East Side in New York, but like a big terrace with a tree, a potted tree or something like that. Suzanne tells me, that right after I tell her my story of the hawk and the dove,

she says, yesterday I was visiting our friend and a hawk landed in the tree while we're sitting there looking out the window. And Suzanne's friend says, oh, it has a dove. And Suzanne looks and sees that the hawk has in its talons a dove. So Suzanne tells me this, and I think, that's a miracle susan you mean that while i was in connecticut and you're in new york city the same thing happened to you and to me each of us was allowed by god to see a hawk with a dove

in its talons are we not supposed to think that this is some kind of miracle now the question is what kind what is it what is god saying that we don't know necessarily but we do know it seems obvious that God is speaking. How else how else you interpret that? It was the most insane you know, what do you call it? Coincidence. So Ken Fish, I told you that story the other day and I said we got to talk about on the program. So now everybody knows the story. What do you think, Ken? What do we make in this? Let me ask a question, which I didn't ask you on the phone. Did your hawk and her hawk occur at essentially the same time? I mean, you weren't running stopwatches, so we wouldn't know exactly. But we don't. I don't. I don't. I don't.

No, but yes, my instinct based on my memory is that roughly it would be around the same time. I don't know if it was exactly the same time, but I would think in the neighborhood of the same time. Certainly within a few hours. Right. Well, the reason I'm asking that question is there are different. types of miracles in scripture. And one of them is known as a Simeon in Greek. You would know this word, and maybe I didn't even say it in good modern Greek. But anyway, that's the way I learned to say it in seminary. And a Simeon is an attesting miracle. It's a miracle that is a sign. And so what you have

is two essentially identical signs. I mean, I'm assuming here it's two different hawks. The other one, the otherwise, it would have had to flown from Connecticut down to New York City and replicate the action. But the other thing that's really unusual about this, and it's part of what makes a sameon a sameon, is that this should not be happening if it's going to happen at all at this time of year because doves generally are migratory

and they don't exist in cold climates in many numbers. Used to be, we could say, any numbers, but with some of the change in the climate, there are a few doves that hang around here and there. But in general, doves are not found in northern climates at this time of year. And so the fact that there would be any dove, let alone two of them, that got snatched by two different hawks, I'm assuming two different hawks, at more or less the same time, this is the kind of patterning that you look for when you say, yeah, this isn't just random circumstance.

The Lord is actually speaking through natural phenomena. Well, even if it was totally normal for doves to be around, the fact is that in my entire lifetime living around here, living in Connecticut, I've never seen anything approaching this. And boom, I see it. And I see it in a way that I shouldn't even see it. I mean, I'm upstairs working on my book. The only reason I saw it was because I hear kind of a bang. I thought, let me see what this is.

I opened the door. And it happens to be right there, not on the other side of the house, you know, these four sides of the house. It's right there for me to see. So boom, I see what I've never seen in my life. Then to share the story with my wife, which I wouldn't have even shared with her if I hadn't been reading in the scripture,

words of pray, oh yeah, let me tell you what happened yesterday. I share with her, and then she tells me exactly the same thing happened to her the day before around the same time. I was just so flabbergasted. So you know, I know God is speaking. That's just crazy, crazy, that on the Upper East, side of Manhattan, my wife would see something like this. And it's the same thing that I saw. And it's just, it's absolutely crazy. So, but so I was talking to you, I said, let me share this

with you. What do you make of it? So what do you make of it? Well, you know, the scriptures say that the heavens declare the glory of God. And the heavens isn't just, you know, the sky above our heads. It's, it's really the wider realm of the earth. And day to day, they pour forth speech. There is no voice or language where their voice is not heard. But again, the language might not be, we're speaking English, it might not be a language in that way. It's more in the language of, in this case, symbols or signs. And the Holy Spirit, one of the signs or symbols for the Holy Spirit in Scripture is a dove. We know from the Gospels of Matthew and Luke that when Jesus was baptized in the Jordan River by John the Baptist, the Spirit of God came down on Jesus in bodily form, in the form of a dove.

And for this reason, I mean, for essentially 2,000 years, the iconography of the church has used the dove as a sign of the Holy Spirit. And what you were not really aware of when we had our phone call, this is for the benefit of our listeners, is that there's been this massive shakeup going on specifically within the charismatic branch of Protestant Christianity due to some misdeeds by some fairly visible speakers, preachers, and at least for a while, it was swept under the rut. It's now no longer under the rug. And so what I said when we were talking was this seems to to me that for whatever reason, the Lord gave you and Suzanne respective signs, but you're a married

couple. So a double confirmation, because the scripture also says, in the mouth of two or more witnesses, shall every matter be established. Both of you saw a raptor, an unclean bird, take down a clean bird, which is the sign of the Holy Spirit. And so the way I interpreted your experiences collectively was that the Lord was speaking by signs that, you know, this is a time for a cleanup in the charismatic church. And, you know, I have identified myself with the charismatic movement, but I have to say, I've been very discouraged the last, I don't know, several years that things I'd become aware of, things I've seen. And I don't think that means God is a liar. I mean, you know, we sometimes have doctors who are guilty of malpractice, but we don't, for that reason, completely reject medicine. Well, some do, but mostly we don't. And likewise, the fact that there may have been some rogues, some scoundrels, maybe some poor ethics, some, you know, things like that does not mean that we should walk away from God himself or more particularly the practice of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. And I don't think those gifts will leave the church. They're here until, until,

till heaven comes. But at the same time, there's been a need for something to change. And so what you saw was a sign, I believe, that says the Lord is judging the church and is cleaning up the church. Now, lest we get too hard line with regard to charismatic Protestants, let's not forget that there have been scandals over the last maybe 15 years or so in the Roman Catholic Church. the Anglican Church, several of the mainstream Protestant denominations. And so the book of First Peter says, it is time for judgment to begin with the House of God. I think what's happening more broadly is the Lord is cleaning up his broader body of Christ, whichever flavor or stripe we want to talk about in anticipation of his return, because we are unquestionably in the last

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Wisdom matters more than optimism. Well, I'm glad you said all that. Because it is true. Like, first of all, I, you know, I say this for my own audience. I care about the truth. I don't care about my brand or my team. Who cares? We can, Jesus, we're all supposed to be for Christians looking to Jesus, right?

So it's not about the Roman Catholic brand or the Lutheran brand or the charismatic brand or the Pentecostal brand or whatever. Who cares? It's about the Lord. and his church, those people that look to him, that sacrifice their lives, that die to self to follow him, that's the church. And so in every brand, you know, when the Roman Catholic Church went through that scandal, I didn't cheer about that. I thought that's, first of all, it's horrible because how many faithful Roman Catholics do I know that their hearts are broken over this? how many faithful priests who never would dream of doing anything wicked,

their names are dragged through the mud, and they walk down the street wearing their collar and people spit at them or associate them with these vile acts. It's horrible. And so when I hear about something like this happening, you know, in the quote-unquote charismatic church or the prophetic movement or whatever like that, it's sickening because how many people do I know

who are faithful ministers of God? I think of you. I think of Dutch Sheets. I've had on this program. Mike Thompson, I've had on this program many times. Just faithful, humble men of God. And then you get people that, you know, there's a whole spectrum. But the latest thing was a guy named Sean Bolts.

I probably had him on this program five or six years ago. I actually don't remember. I should have looked it up. But the point is, he was hailed as some great guy and he's a prophetic voice or whatever. And then it comes out. ladies and gentlemen, think how sick this is, that he was doing data mining or his team. And then he's pretending that like,

oh yeah, there's somebody here who lives at, you know, 453 Smith Street in this neighborhood. And people are like, oh my gosh, that's amazing. And it was totally phony. Now, the reason that makes me so sick is because non-Christians think that everything like that, is phony. There was a movie with Steve Martin 30 years ago mocking this kind of thing.

What could be more sick than counterfeiting the gifts of God? God has spoken to me miraculously. God has spoken to you Ken Fish many, many, many, many times miraculously. And it's real. So what would the devil want to do? The devil wouldn't want to mock it and discredit it. So here you have somebody, this guy, Sean Bolts, it's so despicable that it actually boggles my mind. Notice I didn't say literally boggles my mind because your mind can't be literally boggled folks. Don't misuse or overuse the word literally, please. But the point is, when I hear something I get it boggles my mind, I think what kind of a human being would do this? What kind of a Christian, quote unquote, would deceive people that he has some spiritual gift? What is that?

That is just nuts and sick. And then on top of it, my pastor David Englehart yesterday at King's Church here in New York referenced this, that there were also sexual allegations against Sean Bowles. And again, I go, ladies and gentlemen, you're ministering in the name of Jesus and now there's sexual allegations. Like, really? You don't know this? I know plenty people, okay, who never talk about Jesus, who understand, oh, yeah, you don't do that. You don't need to be some, like, evangelical to know that. whatever. I don't even want to get into. It's disgusting stuff. But I mean, so this stuff comes out.

And Ken, it just boggles my mind. It boggles my mind that anybody who would claim to be a Christian would do this stuff. But then to be in ministry and to go and speaking to crowds and it boggles my mind. So if it is true that God is cleaning out the church, I say thank you, Jesus. Thank you. because this is unbearably ugly to have this kind of deception, this deception, bringing discredit to the name of Jesus. I mean, again, I don't, in some ways I'm naive. I just cannot believe that people would actually do stuff like this. I just don't get it. I don't get it.

And I want to say this, no wonder there's so many people that don't believe in God or don't want to go to church or whatever, because they hear this stuff. And I go, whatever that is, I'm not interested in that. That's phony. I would rather hang out with like, I don't know, somebody who has some sense of reality and honesty and, you know, those things seem like Christian values to me. Yeah, I mean, everything you're saying is right, Eric. So I'm not going to push back at all.

I'm just going to say a couple things to clarify. Centries ago, the Apostle Paul, excuse me, one second. There we go. centuries ago, the Apostle Paul said that there are people in the church who believe that godliness is a means to great game. And, you know, Sean Bowles' gift, as it was understood to be, was so astoundingly accurate and impressive that, yes, in the right setting, maybe not your local church where they just passed the offering plate, but in the right setting, you could be. bring in hundreds of thousands of dollars based on these so-called words. And I have some knowledge of some of those situations. And I am aware that in some cases that was going on for him. So Paul flagged this 2,000 years ago, that for some, they view godliness, and I might add to that, the appearance of

godliness is a means of great gain. They know how to work the system. They know how to milk the the flock, fleece the sheep, whatever term you want to use. The second thing that comes to my mind is that when we're talking about these kinds of misdeeds, Paul says that evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. Now, I know Sean Bowles. I wouldn't count him a close friend, but I do know him. And I do think he had a gift. The problem was he began adding to it. And this is part of the risk of being in that kind of a ministry when suddenly people bring you in and there's an expectation that you're going to be dispensing these kinds of very accurate words to people. They'll be amazing. The game is on. The heat is on. And so in a situation like that, somebody who

is not well-formed internally from a moral standpoint, from an ethical standpoint, who isn't grounded in the teachings of this, this book, many times they find themselves making those compromises. They cut those corners. I've unfortunately been around long enough that I've seen this happen in other settings with other ministers in years gone by. It's just that at the moment. Okay, now look, by the way, there are plenty of people listening to this program who would love to give you chapter and verse on the corruption of the Catholic Church, circa 1500 and the indulgences, blah, blah, blah, blah. Folks, it's the same thing.

They needed the money. The money was coming in. How do we keep it coming in? We got to build St. Peters or whatever. So we cut a corner here. We cut a corner here. We cut a corner here.

Next thing you know, you are corrupt and you need cleansing. And so this is the human condition, folks. It's just particularly ugly when you see it in the church. It's disgusting. And by the way, as far as Sean Bolts goes, let's say he hadn't done any of this data mining and this phony, which is completely despicable and horrible, then there's sexual allegations. And again, when I hear this, I think to myself, you know, my dad, who didn't go around yapping about Jesus, who didn't know the Bible well, who didn't, who barely knew anything about it, but he knew enough like, I'm going to be faithful to my wife. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to. And so I think it mocks the faith when, when you have people yapping about God, I always say this, feel free to shut up about your Jesus unless you're living out your faith. Like, speak in the way you live.

And if there's sexual allegations, then you're on a stage talking to Christians or whatever, and then behind the scenes, there's sexual stuff. You've got to be kidding. Do you have no fear of God? I think that's my question. Do you have no fear of God? Wow.

I just, you know, Ken, I want to say this too. When it comes to the spiritual gifts, I can understand why people, I've had Alyssa Childers on this program. There's some people that they're very, very strongly against the idea that the gifts are for today. And a lot of these people are wonderful people, but I would disagree with them because I have seen the gifts operate genuinely. So we know that there's counterfeits. We know there's frauds. We know that there are people trying to make money.

But it's because there is a real thing. And you, I've experienced this with you many times. I've experienced it myself very rarely. but I remember one time about 10 years ago, I was going to a dental appointment. And as I go into the room to have my checkup, the dental, the assistant, a woman that I, I think I saw her twice or three times,

immediately I get this idea in my head. She's from the same block that I'm from in Queens, New York. I get this idea in my head. So at some point I say, hey, where'd you grow up? New York. Where? Queens. Where? Jackson Heights. Where? Northern Boulevard and 90th Street. I said, excuse me, I'd just experienced a miracle. I've just experienced a miracle. I told her. I said, I got to tell you this. I don't remember this ever happened to me in my life before. But when I walked in here, I believe God told me,

that were from the same place. I grew up on 91st and Northern Boulevard. You grew up across the street. What are the odds of that? New York is so huge. Even the fact that she's from New York, from New York, anywhere in New York.

But you never, ever, ever, ever meet. If you, I've spent all right time in New York, you never meet anybody that's from there. And just as I walked in, I had this impression as she's from, let me ask her, boom, boom, boom, boom. So this is, it's kind of like with the hawk and the dump, you just go like, okay, I don't know what to make of this,

but I'll tell you one thing. That was nuts. How would I walk into this thing, get this thought, and then have it borne out? So I say all this to say that I have experienced this at least once in my lifetime, and I just say, it's real. The only way I got that information was from God. Where would I get this information? And what was the point of it?

I think the point of it was to share my faith with this woman to give her a copy of my book miracles when I visited it again a couple weeks later and to say, I want you to have this book. And just to witness to her, she seemed to have. have come to faith recently, actually. So it's kind of an interesting thing. But I say all this, Ken, just because there are people that would say, well, there are all these phonies and frauds and I've read all this stuff and I don't want

anything to do with it. And I'm here to say, folks, it's real. And it's the devil's goal to push you away from the real by discrediting it, by counterfeiting it, by just making it seem so it's all a scam. They're all hypocrites. And I'm here to say that I have personally. experienced, and I have many, many friends that have personally experienced it, there's a reality here. So if we look at it very, very humbly and say, Lord, if you want to speak to me in this way,

if you want to use this in a way to glorify your name, as I hope he did with this dental hygienist that day, I'm all for that. It is real. I just needed to say that. I mean, the kinds of things that you're just described with your dental hygienist, when we read the Gospels, we see those kinds of things happening and not just in the Gospels. In the Old Testament, it says that when Saul the king, who would become king, he was out looking for some lost donkeys, and one of his men who's with him looking for the donkeys, he says, well, let's go inquire of the seer. And they're referring to Samuel, who we know today generally is Samuel the prophet, but he He was also a seer.

And so they go to inquire of Samuel, and it says in the scripture that the day before, the Lord had spoken in Samuel's ear about this time tomorrow. Some men will come to you looking for donkeys, and you are to anoint this one as king over Israel. So these things are scriptural. They have happened in the past. They do happen in the present. And the biggest problem we have when people start to, you know, push the envelope, they start adding to what they get by revelation. And again, when there's pressure on you to get revelation, revelation doesn't work that way.

Revelation comes from on high. It comes from the Lord and you don't get to titrate or turn it on as to when it's going to come or not. Now, there are some things you can do to open yourself up so you might be more receptive, the things you might have otherwise missed or overlooked. but when God speaks, that's up to God to speak. We don't just kind of make it up in order to say that he did. And, you know, just in this conversation, I'm reminded of a verse that comes out of the book of Romans chapter 2, verse 24. And it says, because of my people, my name is blasphemed among the nations. Well, it's these exact behaviors that we're describing that cause people to turn up their nose, to sneer at God, to say it's all fakery and fraud and, you know, everybody's on the got, got their angle and on the make. There are people like that. I think the broad spectrum of the church is not like that, but there is always a few. And as they say, it only takes a few bad apples to ruin the whole, the whole bushel.

And so we're in a time where a lot of these kinds of behaviors are being exposed. And I think the right response actually should be that we become somewhat circumspect ourselves. Because 1 Timothy 520 says, the elders who sin, and I would say Sean Bowles was functioning as a translocal elder in the church. The elders who sin are to be rebuked publicly in order that, the others would be taught to fear. Now that word fear, it does have an aspect of like, but it's also to reverence God to adjust our behaviors so they conform to the standards of righteousness and holiness, which the Lord expects of us and calls us to in His Word. And so before people become too self-righteous, I would just say, let's examine our own hearts because if any of this has touched any of us, it's time to put it away now. Well, you know, again, I just want to say anytime I hear anything like this, I'm scandalized because I guess I realize that we're all tempted. We're all struggling.

And so when some major figure like this does that, you let you let the whole team down. You just make everybody shake their head like, wow. Is there anybody that, I mean, again, I can understand why people would want to walk away from the church, walk away. It's like who needs to hang around with a bunch of religious phonies? There's nothing worse, folks. There's nothing worse. And I guess, I mean, you and I were talking the other day and you mentioned Paul Kane. There were these monster names out there that they had these amazing gifts.

And then you find out, oh, yeah, like on the side, he's like messing around with young men. And I go, excuse me, what? What are you? You're joking, right? You're joking. No. I thought, this is so sick. I don't know what to make of it.

I want to weep. I want to weep. This is just unbelievable. Who cares about your stupid spiritual gifts if you cannot comport yourself the way, you know, any normal person is supposed to comport themselves in life? And I don't know if it's that these people, it's kind of like, I'm such a big artist making so much money that, you know, I can be, forgiven because I'm doing such great stuff that I'm under more grace or whatever.

But I just want to say to anybody out there who has been scandalized or hurt or anything like that, folks, I'm with you. Like, it is heartbreaking when you hear about, I mean, you and I can, we were there in Kansas City in the summer 2001 with Mike Bickle and Chris Reed and the whole gang. and Francis Chan and Francis Chan got up and said, you know, anybody here, whatever, you know, we're being seen together publicly. So we're all in this together.

If your behavior, whatever, and all the lunacy came out with Mike Bickle and stuff. And to this day, I don't understand. I cannot get to the bottom of that. I don't have time to get the bottom of that. But ladies and gentlemen, every single one of us is called to a high standard. If you dare to talk about Jesus,

you're called to a high standard. and God is a judge. And I don't know what to say except that my heart breaks and I can understand people getting turned off by quote unquote Christianity or saying, oh, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, that's just for the Bible times. That's clearly gone because it's only a bunch of phonies. Folks, that's not true. That is not true. But I can understand why you might feel that. But it's not true.

Don't let the phonies drive you away from God and what God has for you. We just have a few minutes, Ken, but I don't know, anything that you want to talk about. It's just always nice to be with you, to talk to you. Well, you know, since I was on your show last time, Eric, I, you know, I'm always traveling around and leading events. but I went to the Netherlands in October, and I won't even get into all the details, but I'll simply say this. We had a tremendous outpouring of the Holy Spirit

in both Ada, which is generally in the Amsterdam area, but it's kind of on the fringe of Amsterdam and in Rotterdam. And we had a number of, the thing that's different between prophecy in healing is healings can be faked but you can't fake them forever because if people aren't

really healed and they're just being a shill sooner or later they're going to go back to whatever their debilitation was but we had a number of dramatic breakthrough type healings and we had some really valid

prophetic words that read the people's hearts that you just expose the secrets of their hearts in both cities. and it really made it a tremendous impact so much so that we have a number of Dutch that are now in our school of ministry. And I just want to say that evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. But then Paul says to Timothy, but you, man of God, keep your head in all situations. And so what we have to do in a time like this is we've got to

double down on our own standards of holiness. We've got to double down on our commitment to the Lord. We've got to be sure that in the midst of great disappointment and darkness, we do not walk away from the faith. Jesus warned that this would happen in the last days. He said that men's hearts would fail them, and the hearts of many would grow cold toward the faith because of false Christ and false prophets. And so let's heed the words of, of Jesus and let's keep on for the Lord and not give up. But let's be a little more discerning and careful in how we weigh and test people and their ministries. Well said, my friend, folks, if you want to know more about Ken Fish, I think you can spell Ken Fish. That's not

going to be a problem. But Orbis Ministries is ORBIS Ministries. Ken, just thanks for coming on. God bless you, my friend. God bless. Thanks for having the. Eric, always good to be with you. Before we get back to our guests, I just want to say a lot of people donate when there's a headline. But MDA, Magan David Adom, doesn't get to slow down when the news cycle moves on. MDA is Israel's national EMS system. That means emergencies don't stop today, tomorrow next month. Heart attacks, accidents, trauma, surgeries, blood shortages, they're constant.

Keeping that system strong requires ongoing support. When you give to the American friends of Magin David Adom, you're funding the basics that make everything else possible. Ambulances on the road, blood banks for trauma and surgery, training for first responders, and equipment that's used every single shift. This is not symbolic giving. This is practical, life-saving support. If you want your donation to have direct, measurable impact, this is one of the clearest ways to do it. Go to savinglifeisrael.org. That's savinglifeisrael.org.

Hey there, folks. As you know, I have a lot of friends and a lot of friends doing amazing things. One of those friends, he's been on the program before, is Brent Dusing. And I'm going to let you, Brent Dusing, my friend, tell my audience about what's going on. I will only say that I have posted what you wrote about this

on my X account, Google, is at war with Christians and Christian values. That seems clear as a bell. Sometimes you see it really clear. Your story with your company makes it really clear. So tell my audience about your company and about what I'm alluding to. Well, good to be with you, Eric. You know, what's happened to true play and for your audience, for those listening, if you don't know what true play is, we're an entertainment platform for kids that has high quality but Christian content. So beautiful games, videos, digital comics, an incredibly fun experience, one app on your phone, on an iPad, with hundreds of hours of content for your child to play.

Everything we do has a biblical foundation to it. So what happened to us is that we were, you know, when you're in the business we're in, which is a subscription business, a content business for consumers, you have to run. And unfortunately, you have to run ads on where everybody is, which is Facebook, Google, and TikTok. Well, Google and TikTok have been overtly discriminating against us for over a year. So we would run ads that would say things like turn game time into God time, fun Christian games for kids.

Finally, a safe place for your kids to play. And Google and TikTok both repeatedly banned our ads. And I don't just mean one time. I mean banned them for dozens of times. We would get a rejection once or twice a week. I got to say, Brent, I just got to, I have to say, ladies and gentlemen, are you listening? Did you hear what my friend Brent Dusing said about what these ads said? They didn't say any number of true things that you could imagine somebody would get upset about.

they said the most anodyne things, the most gracious, beautiful sounding things, nothing even conceivably offensive. Even if they were offensive, I would say they shouldn't be censored. But what you just said, Bren, you're trying to promote something innocent and beautiful for kids. And what parent isn't looking for that except lunatic parents who take their kids to drag Queen's story hour? true play which is t r u p l a y is something that god put on your heart to do something beautiful and everybody that i know is looking for something like true play why so the question is how sick are the people at google and at tic-tok that they would censor this in a way that is manifestly clear. This is not like, well, we think they're censoring, but you know over the course of a year

that they have been aggressively censoring TruePlay's ads. So I just want to get the story. When did you notice this? When did this start? So we started running ads on Google in 20203 and TikTok in 2024. And the rejection started pretty fast. And so, and I'll give you some examples to to your point, Eric, about how sick this is, how twisted this is. TikTok wouldn't let us run an ad on their platform, okay, on the TikTok platform. If we showed a picture of Jesus on the cross, a cartoon picture of Jesus on the cross, on our Apple App Store page, in other words, when you, all of you downloaded many apps, I'm sure, you go to the app store, there's those pictures that show what's in the app.

We had a picture showing Jesus on the cross. we could not run any ad on TikTok if we showed a picture of Jesus on the cross. That's how sick this is. Now, they said, and I quote, this is harmful content to our users. In fact, they say, in fact, one time they suspended our ad account, but one of the emails they sent said, you have shown harmful content to our users. And to your point, Eric, we're talking about very benign, positive, uplifting things that almost any parent would want for their child, right? positivity, encouragement, hope, you know, things are so bad for kids today. And you know this, Eric. We've talked a lot about this. I know you have. Anxiety, suicide, depression rates are all-time

highs for children. The average males expose to pornography when he's 12. There's rampant child trafficking, sex predators. In fact, just yesterday, the New York Post ran a story about a kid right around where you are. He was in Long Island and Stony Brook. He got on Roblox, 15-year-old kid, and he disappeared. And his parents, he took a train into New York City and nobody's seen him since. And it's heartbreaking. The sad thing is, Eric, this is one of many stories. We have spoken to parents here at True Play who have had predators come after their children on Roblox. Children as young as nine, Eric, that's how awful things are. Now, the story gets worse. And the story gets worse because it's not

just that TikTok and Google banned our ads from True Play. Again, these are ads showing a child playing a game with his mother saying turn game time into God time, upliftment, positivity, hope, encouragement, all the things you'd hope a child would hear. It's not

just that. It's that they would allow overtly satanic, demonic, and pedophiliate content to run for children as examples. Roblox. Roblox. Roblox, which has had countless stories, New York Coast, Wall Street Journal has covered this, as well as many other bloggers and online sources, where Roblox has had for years and years

sexual predators, sex trafficking, child porn, LGBT content, satanic content, pushed on children. Children as young as 8 and 9 years old play this, Eric. And it's gone on, you know, 80 million kids use Roblox every day. Most adults. When you say that, because I'm not familiar. and I don't have a young kid. Sure. It sounds like roadblocks, but it's Roblox?

It's Roblox. It's a public. So R-O-B-L-O-X has been used to promote incredibly evil stuff. Yeah. So to give people some context. Yeah. And you've shared this with me, and this is happening. And nobody seems to be doing anything about it.

But what does Google and TikTok do? they try to suppress what you are doing through true plate. Now, ladies and gentlemen, that's, I used to hear stuff like this and I go, oh, you know, these people are, they're conspiracy theorists, or they see, you know, a problem everywhere they look. At this point, I don't know how else you interpret this, except that there are forces of evil that are working hard to harm children. it doesn't get darker than that.

And I mean, if we're going to talk about the definition of evil to attack the innocent, that's the definition of evil. It's not a fair fight. It's sick. And you're telling me, how long has True Play been in existence? True Play, we founded the company in 2000, and then we started running ad. We launched a product in 2023. And so we've had issues with Google shortly thereafter.

and then TikTok starting in 2024. You know, Eric, you talked about how evil and twisted this is. We're not talking conspiracy theories. We're coming with facts. We have facts, which we've shared with you. You're welcome to share with your viewers where all the ads that were banned by TruePlay, and you can also go to our website, by the way, at TruePlaygames.com and see it. And the ads that were allowed to be run by TikTok and Google for Roblox.

So again, Roblox, R-O-B-L-O-X. is it Eric 80 million kids use this every day it's a gaming platform where kids build their own games which sounds fun the problem is there's a lot of sick awful stuff that goes on there including child predators it's a multi-billion dollar by the way public company they were allowed roblox was allowed to run ads and I kid you not we have the images and the evidence of pentagrams drawn in blood with severed heads and blood on the floor of pride month LGBT content for children for young children they were allowed to run those ads there's another called Diablo, of course, main character being Satan, that has a multi-billion dollar franchise again,

by the way, that was allowed to run ads without restraint about satanic images, demonic things, talking about heaven and hell. But when we say turn game time into God time, nobody saw our ads. And who's, let's talk about, by the way, who's with us? You've been a fantastic, you know, ally and friend. Riley Gaines endorsed True Play. Her ads weren't allowed to run on TikToks. Her ads were banned. Kim Walker Smith, very successful Christian singer and worship leader. She did ads partnering with us. Her ads were not allowed to run. Pete Hagsa, the current secretary of war. He didn't endorse us when he was on Fox News when it first launched. That ad was not allowed to run. So the ACLJ has gotten involved, and I'd like to speak with you a little bit about what we're

doing about that. Well, I just want to hear everything you want to share so my audience can get engaged here the ACLJ total heroes God bless them thank God for them how have they gotten involved in this because again this is so scandalous to me

I just get so upset because I think you know it's amazing that Google and TikTok they have the power that they have and they're using it ladies and gentlemen for evil how else do you how else do you make any sense of this they're allowing

demonic images. Roblox is participating in tremendous evil. No problem. And then you have true play posting just innocence from A to Z innocence. And they have a problem with this. It just is, it's just absolutely amazing to me. So I don't know what the takeaways are. I mean, first of all, if you have a Google, if you use Google search, use Duck, Duck, Go, or use something else. I've started to use Duck, Duck Go, which is not guilty of these things. I just, I don't know what we can do, but I'm just, I'm stunned. So go ahead. Yeah, so let's talk about what the ACLJ is doing and what TruePlay is doing about this. And then I'd like to talk about why this is actually happening, the root of this, because it's

actually darker than a lot of people realize. So first, to give people a little bit more color, So the ACLJ has gotten involved, the American Center for Law and Justice, founded by Jay Secholo, now run by Jordan Seculo. And we sent letters. They sent letters on our behalf just last week to multiple senators and congressmen demanding a hearing. Demanding a hearing that TikTok and Google need to show up to Congress. We'll happen to show up too. And let's talk about why they won't let an app that is just fun, beautiful, high-quality entertainment for children that has a biblical foundation, which by the way, the majority of Americans identify

as Christians, right? You know, this is the foundational faith. You've written many books about this era, some of which I've read, by the way, all about how Christian culture is, the Christian nation, American nation, American culture was founded on Christianity. But yet they won't allow us to run those ads. And meanwhile, overtly satanic, overtly sexual content is allowed to run. So, what we're asking is, let's have a hearing, let's demand them to answer questions as to why Christians aren't allowed to advertise. And I will also tell you, I was fortunate enough to speak at CPAC, a CPAC conference in D.C. about this a few months ago. I had people come up to me afterwards, other Christian organizations and say, this happened to us too. So it's not just about

true play. Now, here's what it's, there's four levels of problems with this. One is, yes, true play was harmed. It costs us a lot of money. It hurt our business. The second issue is, There are other Christian organizations, both businesses and ministries that have been harmed. The third issue is children, right? Jesus said, if you lead a child astray, better for you to have a millstone tied around your neck. And when we talk about the demonic and the satanic agenda behind this, I think it's because why, because Jesus loves children, right? Because God loves children.

And those of us as parents, what do we value the most? Our children, right? And so what's happening is there's this attack against our children. Imagine, Eric, imagine this. Imagine school gets out at 3 o'clock in the afternoon, okay? Children start to file out of school down a dirt path. And the path has a three-part split. Okay, the first path is a fun, entertaining after-school program for kids that has Christian

thematics in it, right? Christian teachings. The second path leaves them to a satanic temple. And the third path leads them to a pornography store where you can watch porn inside the store and by the way there's adults that at prey on the kids two men stand at that at the intersection they don't allow children to go down path one and they shove all of them down paths two and three the satanic temple and the um the the pornography store if men were doing that in real life people would come and attack them and physically restrain them at a minimum they would be restrained

they would probably be hurt and rightfully so right but google and ticot have been doing exactly that Google and TikTok are those men. Except it's worse than that because it's on the millions. We're not talking about one schoolhouse with 20 kids getting out of school. We're talking about tens of millions of children use Roblox every day. We're talking about billions and billions of ad impressions that Google and TikTok run every day. And that's really the scale of what's going on. And the harm of that is, as I mentioned earlier, satanic, sorry, demonic activity has led to,

anxiety, suicide, and depression rates at all time highs because kids don't see godly content. Only 32% of kids believe in God now, Eric, 32% of kids in America because they don't see it anywhere, right? They're only getting, if you turn on a screen, right? Demonic, violence, inappropriate sexual content pushed out them right into their eyeballs. This is so upsetting to me. It's practically unbearable. Folks, I want to tell you about a coffee company I genuinely admire. 10 Boom Coffee, inspired by the faith and courage of the 10 Boom family. This isn't just great coffee.

It's coffee with a mission, ethically sourced, expertly roasted, and rooted in Christian values. If you care about what you consume and who it supports, this is coffee you can feel good about. Go to 10boomcoffee.com. Use promo code Eric for 15% off your order. That's 10boomcoffee.com code Eric. So folks, one takeaway. If you're a parent or a grandparent, you know. need to have the guts. Most of you will, some of you won't, to protect your kids from Roblox.

I'm wondering who will be able to handle that. Parents, you're supporting something that is at least looking the other way where evil is concerned. Roblox needs to police this, that clearly they're not. If you're not aware of true play, I hope parents can be aware of True Play, but I'm amazed, again, that the media doesn't talk about this. We're having this conversation here now. But when I hear you, Brent, whom I know, say that Google and TikTok are doing this, it seems inexplicable. Why would Google and TikTok, why would they do this?

I mean, unless there are gatekeepers in those places. that are Satanists that are in bed with evil. Because this is to wield tremendous power and to use it for evil, not just to be while we're looking the other way or we don't know, but they seem to be deliberately explicitly using their power for evil to harm children.

That to me is the most disturbing thing because you'd like to think that, well, everybody makes mistakes or they're dumb or they don't have our biblical worldview. But it wouldn't lead to what you're describing. What you're describing is a very clear, intentional attack on God, on Christian values. That is, you can't miss it from what you've shared. You're exactly right, Eric.

You know, if it was just an economic thing, then you would say, well, gosh, 65% of Americans identify as Christians and 100 million people go to church every Sunday. And less than 1% of Americans identify as Satanus. I think it's like 0.1% or something. So economically, the equation is completely upside down for Google and TikTok. But you've hit the nail on the head in terms of what the actual harm is in the real threat. And it's important for all of your listeners to really understand this. And this is what I'd like people to start to get to realize.

True play isn't being blocked because some guy sitting behind a desk saying deny, deny, deny. True play is being blocked because the artificial intelligence algorithms that Google and TikTok run to allow what content, to determine what content is allowed or sent on their platform, views what true play is doing as wrong. It views what true play is doing as harmful as dangerous because it views the Christian worldview as harmful and dangerous. So here's a big takeaway. Artificial intelligence is an existential threat to the Christian worldview. True play is just the canary in the coal mine for this situation, right? We are a content platform that makes fun games for kids that has a biblical foundation to it. But that's not okay from a Google or from a TikTok standpoint because the people who program these algorithms have to make judgment calls. But again, it's the people, it's, there's nothing inherently wrong with AI or algorithms. It's the people who are programming this. That's the point, folks, right?

In other words, it's always people. There's no such thing as like AI doing its own thing. AI doesn't exist. Human beings created AI, human beings feed AI, human beings pay for AI. So they have created algorithms to keep out Christian content to do this. So at the end of the day, it is human beings. It is executives at Google at TikTok. Those are the people that have made these decisions.

But it is seriously astonishing to me, Brent, that their decisions would lead to this level of censorship of what is good and beautiful and true and to the promotion of openly evil things. That's, you know, it's astonishing. It's astonishing and it's abhorrent. And so with AI, and this is why everybody's got, every Christian needs to be aware of this,

AI is only becoming more pervasive and ubiquitous, right? It's only becoming more and more of an important part of our lives and the way things happen. So imagine this. Imagine the situation where you have an administration in the future that's anti-Christian, right? That hates the things of God and things of the Bible. Imagine that AI is used to do social credit scores on people to start to go after pastors who preach the gospel, to change results. The thing that you were saying, Eric, is people program AI and they give these algorithms essentially value judgments, right? If somebody writes a question into AI, is it okay to be racist? The AI has to give them some kind of answer, right?

It can't just say does not compute. I can't give you an answer to that one, right? If you, everybody who's played around with chat, GBT, or Google's Gemini or GROC, you ask the thing questions, it will give you opinions. and those opinions are based on the judgments and the values of those who program, well, those who are running TikTok and Google and making these decisions have a view of Christianity that somewhere between it's a silly waste of time to it's the worst thing in the world. And so they program their algorithms to then discriminate overtly against Christians. And the reason why that we as Americans need to wake up and deal with this today is because we still have an opportunity and there's a movement built.

to stop AI from destroying the Christian worldview as AI becomes more and more pervasive in our society and starts to make decisions for people, we can't let it erase the truth of the gospel or the reality of Jesus Christ. And that's where the real danger lies. We've just got a few minutes left, Brent. What can people listening to this do? I mean, you said that the ACLG has sent letters to members of Congress. Have any of them responded? We haven't gotten any responses yet. This was late last week, so we're waiting on responses. But look, if you're listening, there's a few things you can do. One, reach out to your senator, reach out to your congressman. If your senator is on the judiciary committee or the, you know, ways and means or the oversight committees, write to them. Tell them that this issue matters to you because it's not just about true play, it's about children. And it's really about the future of our country and whether we are as Christians allowed to talk about the things of God,

whether we're as Christians even allowed to transact and take place in public society. That's really what's at stake here. The second thing you can do is share this message. Are you seeing this video or you're listening to the podcast? Share it with your friends. Continue to advocate. Share it on your social media accounts. Continue to advocate for this position because, again, the things that we hold most precious

our children is what's at stake because as we've seen. with the data, 68% of adults over 40 in America believe in God, but only 31% of kids believe in God because they're being programmed. So we have to band together to stop this. And I'd like to encourage you if you're listening, if you're a parent or even a grandparent, please check out TruePlay. You can go to our website, TruePlaygames.com. You can go to the app store.

You can download it. You can also buy it as a gift for your grandchildren. I know we're just a little bit after Christmas, but probably not too late for one extra gift for your grandchildren. if that's something you'd like to do. Because at True Play, what we care about is children. And we've built something that's not just entertainment. It's truly world-class.

If you give a child True Play and you give them Roblox, which 80 million kids use every day, a child is twice as likely to True Play after a week and three times as likely after a month. Kids love it. It's built with really high quality, and it's with values that you can trust and endorse. Well, listen, and folks, like I'm not getting paid, you know,

to promote true play. But when I hear something like this, I just know that if parents don't get involved, if you don't see what is going on, you become part of the problem. And I think that a lot of us were busy, we're drifting along. It's difficult.

I'm a parent. I understand. Like, these things are difficult. But when the level of evil is raised to what we've just been listening to, it's astonishing. It's absolutely astonishing. We have to get serious. So if your kids are grandkids are on Roblox, you've been warned.

If you haven't heard of TruePlay, I'm glad that you've heard of TruePlay. What is the website, TruePlayGames.com? Trueplaygames.com. T-R-U-P-L-A-Y games.com. T-R-U-P-L-A-Y. So True, T-R-U, TruePlaygames.com. Brent D-D-Sing, I'm just, thrilled that you are a spokesperson on this, that you're getting the word out.

We're in a war, folks. This is a war for the hearts and souls of the next generation. And so we're privileged to be involved in talking about it. Brent, God bless you, my friend. Thank you. Thank you, my friend. Good, be with you, brother. It's finally here, our second annual mega sale.

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