The Eric Metaxas Show - #67 - Jan Jekielek

Episode Date: February 27, 2026

The Epoch Times senior editor reveals the shocking realities of the Chinese Communist Party and their forced organ harvesting industry.

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Hey, the folks, welcome back. Jan Yekulik is my guest, and you know him. He's a senior editor with the Epic Times. The Epic Times, they have been heroes in covering real news. And at the forefront of the real news is the, what's the word I'm looking for? Satanic evil of the Chinese Communist Party, things that are so horrifying. but the New York Times, which used to be a newspaper, they don't report on this.

Thank God for the Epic Times. Yon, welcome the program. Eric, I'm thrilled to be here. So good to sit down with you. It's great to sit with you, and we have to talk about your new book. What is the title, the full title of this book? Well, the title is killed to order,

and the important, really important part of the book is actually, you know, it's about China's forced organ harvesting industry, but it's also about the true nature of America's biggest adversary. That's the subtitle. And I think that this horrible forced organ harvesting industry, which is a whole different level of anything that most people have heard about, is actually the perfect lens into understanding how the CCP actually operates. I mean, that's roughly what I would say about it.

And I want people to get it again what we're talking about. Ladies and gentlemen, in case, you know, your radio says, is on the fritz. You're not sure if you got it right. Let me tell you. The title of the book is Killed to Order, killed to order,

China's Oregon Harvesting Industry. This is with human beings, not pigs, not goats, not cows. Human beings killed to order China's Oregon harvesting industry and the true nature of America's biggest adversary, which is the Communist Chinese Party. This is,

practically the most important story in the world. And it's not being covered. And so again, I thank God for the Epic Times. And I thank God that I have this program so we can get the word out. This is difficult stuff, Jan. Now, you've looked right at the heart of it. You've looked right into it. The reason it's difficult for me is that I've written a book about the Nazis.

I wrote a Bonhofer book. And in my Bonhofer book, I talk about how, in one of the death camps, I don't recall which, one of the commandants singles out a prisoner and says, you see that guy there? Tomorrow, I want his skull on my desk. The Nazis did that. They singled someone out, murdered him.

I don't want to go into the rest. That is happening on a level in, communist China that makes what I just said seem like nothing. So let's start at the beginning. How did you, Jan, Yichalek, I always want to pronounce your name

correctly. It's with the J. J. Jan Yekleuk. How do you get into this this gruesome subject that is not being covered? And I want to say again, ladies and gentlemen, it could not be more important. This is extreme. This is not some fringe, weird thing. This is centrally important to what's going on in the world today once you know

what we're talking about. So, Jan, again, forgive me for going on so long, but I want to set it up. How did you get involved in this? Well, so I was working in the China human rights sphere more broadly and near at the same time, basically two very different types of whistleblowing happen. This is like late 2005, early 2006, that this is all happening. And by the way, I actually actually, really appreciate you qualifying all this the way that you have because one of the most difficult things talking about this stuff is that, you know, as I would tell people this story after 2006, when I realized it was real, people would just sort of clue out in the middle of conversations. It was so horrible that they just absolutely didn't want to know about it. And I actually

sympathized with them. But let me, let me lay out for you what transpired. Okay. On the one hand, there was a woman named Annie. That's a pseudonym. Okay. She'd had a husband who was kind of going a bit nuts. He was having nightmares and he was a surgeon and she, this was in China and she basically told him, look, it's over unless you tell me exactly what's going on. And he confessed to her that he had removed 2,000 corneas from living people. Okay. So that's one setup and we're this, oh my God, what is this? And then we've dug in to try to understand. And she alleged that there's actually a concentration camp of sorts called Sujatun, at Sujitun, where people are being kept to be used this way.

Okay. Actually, what we realized, what we, what we discovered later was much worse than this, to be perfectly frank. But that was the allegation. That's what came through. At the same time, basically, completely independent of this, there was Jakob-Lavie, who was a professor of transplant surgery at Tel Aviv University. Okay.

He had, he was a heart transplant surgeon. He had a patient who, you know, basically told him one day from his bed. and I've talked to him about this. It's just kind of shocking. He said, look, I'm tired of waiting. They've arranged for me a transplant in China in two weeks, and they've scheduled it. Okay? And Jacob couldn't believe his ears because, you know, if someone were to be scheduled to get a heart transplant,

that means you know exactly when that person will be dead. And the only way you can know that is if you're making them dead. See, like in a civilized society, in an ethical transplantation system, right, you typically have to wait a very long time. Why? Because someone has to have a catastrophic accident that they're absolutely not coming back from, right? And somebody has to basically be the right match for you. They have to have the right, you know, kind of blood type and tissue.

Basically, our bodies reject foreign things put into them. So you have to find this organ that kind of matches a little bit closely. Even size has to be matched a bit, right? So when you add all these things up, people wait months, years, sometimes five years, you know, sometimes they die before they can get their life-saving transplant. But here, right, two weeks. And then we looked and we saw there were actually ads. This was prior to 2006 before we reported on it, literally that said this.

Like if you got 200 grand or 500, I can't remember the exact number they said then in those ads. We have them archived. You can get a new heart in a week or two weeks or something like that in China, like literally online, right? I have to just, we have to hit pause again. There's a lot of context here. First of all, folks, if you're watching this, this video, you're watching this right now. I'm going to ask you now and again, you need to share this widely. The president of the United States, I will bet, barely knows about this.

President Trump barely knows about this. The wickedness of China in doing this, there's a lot of evil, there's a lot of stories, there's a lot of issues generally around the world and generally with China, this, I just want to say, sums up the Chinese communist atheist worldview. If you believe we're not made in the image of God, there's nothing sacred about a human being or about life, it follows perfectly naturally, perfectly, that you can do what you like with your enemies. It makes no difference. There's no good or evil. There's nothing sacred about a human being. if they're your political enemies, or if for the state you can make a ton of money from their body,

the state owns you. You're a slave. You're not free. So it follows perfectly logically from communist atheist ideology that if we can build a bridge with the money we get from the organs of those 10 prisoners, kill them now. Let's get the money. Let's build the bridge.

And let's bless all these other people. We're building great things here in China. That's the worldview. That's what's at the heart of this. And again, I want to be clear, Jan, this is real. You've done the research. There have been other books about it. Your new book is called Killed to Order, China's organ harvesting industry

and the true nature of America's biggest adversary. So please continue. Eric, why don't I lay out exactly what happens here? because it's so, in a sense, fantastical, right? It's so hard, one of the best documentaries actually out there about this is actually called hard to believe because it is.

Okay, but basically you need a very unique situation. And by the way, the scenario described in the worldview, you could, that could be described as something called utilitarian bioethits. It's sort of the pinnacle of utilitarianism. Okay, and of course we can get into that. But here's how it works, okay? You need to have a state actor.

You need to have some power, in this case, the Chinese Communist Party, is able to project massive course of power through a population. Two, you have to be able to dehumanize a large group of people. You have to basically convince the majority of the population that some group of people is less than them. And we know various regimes in the past

that you've written about prominently that have been very effective at doing those kinds of things. Okay? The third part is you have to be able to incarcerate. You have to have the power to incarcerate a massive group of people, say a million, maybe two million. We don't know the exact. number. But this is what the Chinese Communist Party did to the Falun Gong practitioners in 1999.

Okay. Very quick setup. It was a grassroots spiritual movement based on truthfulness, compassion, and tolerance. These people lived this very seriously. They were very hard to re-educate, meaning brainwash, okay, to the point where they were torturing them to do that, to actually affect that, okay? And at some point, some very evil person figures the something out. They think to themselves, wait a sec. Okay, I'm supposed to kind of get, eradicate these people to use the dictator's terms. It didn't mean kill everybody. It means get rid of it, right?

But now when you get to utilitarianism, getting rid of it can be any means. And if these people are very resistant to basically giving up their faith, giving up their beliefs, while whatever means can be used, okay? At the same time, this very evil person I theorize in the book and killed to order who that person is and how this happened, okay? Because we don't know exactly, right? He basically figured out that maybe we can actually monetize this. So in the year 2000, okay, the organ transplantation system in China is very small, very low level,

but it starts to grow geometrically as they incarcerate, say, a million or two million Falun Gong practitioners. And it grows to, they build thousands of hospitals, active working functioning transplant hospitals. It kind of plateaus in 2000 prives and grows a bit more, okay, to the tune of 60 to 90,000 transplants a year. Okay. Now, just going back, $40,000 was the record for the U.S. last year. Okay. Now, but you have to understand, this is the part, this is the part where it gets crazy, why it's killed to order.

Because I can't remember, it's hard to match, right? It's hard to find that match. But in this incarcerated system, right, they're blood typing, tissue typing, organ scanning people, and they create a database and that person's vitals or a whole number, a huge number of people's vitals are already on record. So if I come up and I pay that 200 grand for my new heart, that person is already pre-matched to me and they can be shipped and killed to order,

which is that's the reason this is the name of the book. This is an evil yet to be seen on this planet, as David made us, kind of the big researchers on this is called it. Again, for more context, folks, think of this, okay? Why do we believe in religious liberty? in China they don't in China if you don't believe what the state wants you to believe they can and will torture and kill you murder you and then make money off of your body parts okay so who is the greatest threat to authoritarian states anybody that believes in anything greater than the state so you have religious groups the Uighur Muslims for example the Fallon Gong people, Christians. Anyone that believes in something else, the Chinese government says, you know what, you're kind of an enemy, you're a threat to us, so we're going to persecute you. We're going to

put you in camps. And then maybe we'll decide, we'll just wipe you out, just like the Nazis said, you know what, this Jewish question, let's just, the final solution, let's just murder all of them. But, you know, before we murder them, there's a lot of gold in their mouths. Maybe we can make soap from their bodies. Maybe we can do something with this. Maybe we can do something. The Chinese have taken this to a dramatically new level.

So with the Uyghur Muslims, for example, hey, we have sheiks in, you know, in Saudi Arabia who want an organ, but they want it from a Muslim because they think non-Muslims are dirty. Where can they get something from, oh, the Uighur Muslims,

they're imprisoned in China and China will happily say, please murder this 26-year-old healthy Uyghur Muslim man will get his organs and will make $400,000 for the Chinese Communist Party. That is the depth of the horror that we're discussing. And, Jan, I just want to say another thing, you know, the reason this stuff doesn't get covered. You've already said it is because it's too horrible. We don't want to believe it.

We don't want to think this is happening. We need to face this. And, you know, people back home are stressed because nobody understands. stands, we know what's going on in our neighborhood. Well, we're doing our best to get the word out. And listen, I want to say this. Many serious Christians who love the God of the Bible, love the Jews and love the Jewish people. And now the voices of those, quote unquote Christians who don't has been magnified.

And I really want the Jewish people to know that in my book, where I come from, anybody who says he is a Christian. a serious Christian, not just a tribal identity, which is just a Gentile. But if you really love the God of the Bible, you love the Jewish people and you stand for the state of Israel. You don't have to agree with every detail of the government, but you stand with the right of the Jewish people to exist and so on and so forth. So I'm glad to be getting that out there because some people aren't clear on that. Right.

Some people are not clear. And they hear these voices of hate. and those voices prove that they are not real Christians. When somebody says that it's instantly I know, they don't get it. I think that eventually people should stick to the fundamental principles that Maganda Vida don't represent, which is protection of life, which is saving life, and is providing life. Yeah. And this is sacred.

I agree. And everybody who is Christian or a Jew should agree about this. And I think what's most fascinating about Magendatollum, that we are constantly trying to be prepared for anything that happens. Yeah, yeah. So we incorporate under our organization 35,000 people, Israelis, from all around, anybody who supports those sacred and novel fundamental principles are invited to come in.

Yeah. And the thing is, each time that something happens in, in the Middle East, it's not like the second quarter of the All-Star Games. It doesn't start where it ended a few women, it starts with a new new thing. Just for an instance.

If we had like an alert of one hour in the war on June, on June 2025, the estimations now that we'll have only 10 minutes or 13 minutes. So if Magandavidon gets the alert, within 13 minutes, we have to be ready to respond

for any attack. Right. and we value the support that we get from Christians. As you said, Christians that support. Well, it's true Christians. Believe me, this is how you can tell if somebody just says, I'm a Christian,

and it's just an identity really to say, I'm a Gentile. God is not interested in people just being Gentiles. He's interested in people who worship in him with their whole lives. And part of that, for me, it's very clear. It's to pray for the Jewish people, to pray for Israel, even just being an American.

but if you're Christian, you have no excuse. And I have to say that we have to spread the word that there are Christians, especially in America throughout the world that care for Israelis, that care for Jewish kids, that pray for them. Yes. And this is something that... I mean, when I became a Christian seriously, this was one of the first things that was made clear to me that we love the Jewish people, we love Israel.

I never heard this before, and I said, this is basic. So when somebody doesn't get that, this is one of the most basic things about Christian identity. And we've had a lot of counterfeit Christianity, a lot of hateful people under the name of Christianity or the name of the church, whatever it is. You have to reject them. They're not followers of God. And they're missing it. And so I'm glad that you're getting the word out because there are millions and millions of us who are Christians who love Israel. It's just a fact.

And this is amazing because let me let me tell you a story. after the atrocities of October 7, 2023, the first one that came and offered help. Ormagan de Vida Dom were Christians. Yeah. Those are the Christians that I know. The evangelical, born-again Christians in America love Israel. So that's the way.

They were the first one who said, they said, we came here in the name of Jesus Christ. How can we help? And this is, you know, with all this darkness, with all the things that we had to witness and take care of, This was really a ray of light now with this other things. I'm glad. Thank you so much.

And if you can call your followers, if you want to support life-saving in the state of Israel, if you want support Magandavidodon, please go to saving lives in Israel.org, contribute to the men and women that actually put themselves in harm's way in order to help others. That is, you know, Lord, Lord Commandment,

You'll help others and put yourself in second place. So saving lives in Israel.org will be more than happy and we are ready. Saving lives in Israel.org. Right. Okay. Hey, folks, before we get back to our guests, I just want to say a lot of people donate when there's a headline. But MDA, Magan David Adom, doesn't get to slow down when the news cycle moves on. MDA is Israel's national EMS system.

That means emergencies don't stop today, tomorrow next month. heart attacks, accidents, trauma, surgeries, blood shortages, they're constant. Keeping that system strong requires ongoing support. When you give to the American friends of Magin-David-Adom, you're funding the basics that make everything else possible. Ambulances on the road, blood banks for trauma and surgery, training for first responders, and equipment that's used every single shift. This is not symbolic giving.

This is practical, life-saving support. If you want your donation to have direct measurable impact, This is one of the clearest ways to do it. Go to savinglifeisrael.org. That's savinglifeisrael.org. So please continue. Well, so, you know, one of the things I had kind of a debate, I just got these books that are fairly hot off the presses,

but it's a pretty dramatic cover, actually. And we had a debate about whether it's appropriate, right? Whether it'll get more people to buy the book less. Of course, I'm trying to get lots of people to buy the book, right? Kind of create a movement around this. Maybe we can reduce America's, complicity. Maybe we can stop it. You can get the book at kill to order.com, by the way. But I'm shameless, this is my shameless plug because I really think that the information here is

incredibly important for people. But your point about the Uyghurs is critical, okay? Because for the better part of the 14 or 15 years, okay, nobody really did anything about it. even there were major international organizations, a transplant society, WHO, that in effect, I mean, in effect, I think basically ran cover for this. Instead of telling them, stop this, you know, this is horrible, right? There was enough information to know they were doing something horrible, and they've never, ever provided any credible information in the other direction,

just slander against the messenger, just slander against the messenger, okay? So this is what happened. In 2014 or 2015, they decided, hey, no one cares apparently. So we'll decumanize another huge group of people. These are the Uyghur Muslims in the northwest of China in a military-controlled zone, very vulnerable. And we'll put them, we'll, of course, incarcerate a million of them

or more than a million of them and do the same thing. So they were added in 2014, 2015, basically to this system. And my deep concern, Eric, I know you're a deeply believing Christian. You know, I've been watching how this dehumanizing rhetoric, which is always kind of a prequel to atrocity, as you well know, this is actually rising now against,

it's been there with the Tibetans for a while, but it's actually rising with the Christian, the house church Christians in China. I actually talked to Bob Fu about this on my show American Thought Leaders. I have an episode coming out about this. He's one of these big sort of first people in America that's Pastor Bob Fu.

He supports the Chinese Christians as best he can and advocates for them. I asked him, are you seeing the same dehumanizing rhetoric that I'm seeing? And he basically said, yeah, yeah, this is what I'm seeing. So we saw the Zion church, right, get rolled up. This was a very popular online church. They decided, no, and these people were really trying to not, you know, push the buttons of the regime in any way just to practice their faith in the most, in the simplest possible way. No, that's not acceptable. And even the Catholic clergy right now are being rolled up. So, you know, again, I want to try to use this opportunity, right? I know that President Trump and the Trump administration is very serious, right, about protecting Christians

writ large. I'm concerned that, and on religious freedom in general, let's be straight about it, right? I think this is an opportunity to try to, you know, kind of stop this escalating even further, because at the moment, they have no reason to stop. And, you know, we train those surgeons. We provide all sorts of technologies for this organ harvesting to happen. We have funding relationships. We have research partnerships. There's even a paper, Eric, I'll just, I have to say this. Again, there's a paper in the American Journal of Transplantation, a few years back, titled Execution by Organ Procurement, okay? They found, the authors found 70 papers in the published public Chinese transplant literature, where the dead donor rule has been very obviously violated, meaning that the way the people, in those

research projects were actually died. The way they died was their organs were extracted. They were killed through organ extraction. And that is pretty obviously a massive ethical no-no. But it's so normalized over there that basically they've forgotten that they can't write stuff like this into publicly available research methods. That's at least how I interpret that. Well, look, this is so wicked.

I want to say again to my audience, please share this video. Please. It's something you can do. You say, what can I do? You can share this video. If I were president of the United States, I would give a speech talking about this, about human rights,

about how we in the West, in the Christian West, we in the United States of America believe in the sanctity of the individual. A human being is sacred, made in the image of God. If you don't believe that, I'll say it again, it follows logically. Murder, anyone who gets in your way. Why wouldn't you?

Why wouldn't you? We have to face this, folks. If you're an atheist, I want to challenge you to face the logic here. Utilitarianism follows perfectly logically from an atheistic worldview. If a human being is not in the image of God, they're causing some trouble, you can get rid of them. Why wouldn't you do that? We have to face the logic of our world. worldview. And right now, we have the Chinese Communist Party dealing with this logically. The Nazis

would have loved to do this. They didn't have the technology. Well, now the communist, Chinese, they have the technology. They're doing this. They're murdering to order. The book is called Killed to Order. Please get a copy of the book. But this issue, Yon, has to be broadcast to the world when you're playing with with china when you're trading with china i mean i would say if i were the president of the united states you know you want to talk about tariffs um this is the bully pulpit we have if you want to do business with the american market the biggest market in the history of the world then you have to be transparent on this you have to stop this just like iran or anybody has to be transparent on what's your nuclear capability whatever you don't want to do that we should

our market off to you or we put 300% tariffs on you. This is, you know, human beings' lives are at stake. So it just doesn't get bigger than this. So it becomes challenging, I think, for people. Just like when the death camps were opened in 1945, a lot of people said, I don't want to believe that. It's too painful that this civilized nation in Western Europe systematically murdered and processed millions of healthy human beings.

I don't want to believe that that's too much it can't be. But of course, it's true. And something just like that is happening today in China. And so we have to at least be honest about it. We have to be honest about it. So the book is brand new. It's called Kill to Order. Is it not brand new?

It just came out. It's coming out March 17th. But, you know, as we're kind of trying to create this movement, by the way, in the book, I also have a couple of appendices where one of them is sort of, you know, answers to questions around the evidence because some people are legitimately incredulous. How is this even possible? Well, I try to summarize it in a lot of detail in the book itself, but there's an appendix that sort of, you know, is a kind of a Q&A about that kind of stuff. And there's also something about what you can do. So, you know, everything from at the federal level, there's two pieces of federal

legislation that are passed in the House. The Senate could actually do some major good right now. There's a piece of legislation in the House that would stop us being able to pay for transplants in China. Six states have passed legislation like that. So there's, I mean, 44 states of action that could be done. And also at the grassroots level, we even have like the Rotary Club. If you can believe this, right, wherever I've gone and visited with Rotarians in the world,

these are people that are trying to do good in their various communities, right? They've actually created a specific club for dealing with forced organ harvesting in Rotary. And they're actually doing this, what you said, raising awareness, screening films, local libraries, getting books and hopefully this book will be added to their roster. But, I mean, my point is at every level, wherever you're operating, you know, you can actually make a significant difference with this. And I explain how to do that in Kill to Order as well.

Well, you talked about dehumanizing groups. We've seen that, you know, in America, we say, we said in slavery times, well, you know, I don't know that the Negro slaves are quite the same. as we are. We put them in a group so we can do what we like with them. We can buy them and sell them. We've done that with the unborn. We just say, well, it's not a life. It's just a this. It's just of that. We demonize them or we reduce them to something less than human. That's typical. Even in my book on the revolution, which is coming out soon, the British did this with the rebels. The British did this with the Americans. They said these are outlaw criminals. We will not treat them in war.

or the way we would treat the French, if we're fighting the French. These are pure rebels. And with rebels, you can do anything. When they surrender, you can murder them. You don't have to put them, you don't have to deal with them in a humane way, the way prisoners are supposed to be dealt with.

You can just, you can murder them. And the British often did that. So this is a worldview issue. This is why it affects me as it does, is because I challenge people to think about this. If you don't believe we're created in the image of God, then I would say, to some extent, you're complicit with what we're talking about. You're making this possible.

You have to do ideas have consequences. And so the Chinese communists are simply logically living out what they believe. That's what they're doing. And if you just see this as, well, they have their truth and I have my truth, you're complicit in this almost unbelievable, unfathomable, evil that they're doing to human beings right now while we have this conversation. We just have minutes left. I want to have you back, Yon, because there's a lot to talk about here. And we've talked about doing a Socrates in the city conversation about this. I don't think it becomes, I don't think anything's more central than this, because this is right now the outworking of worldview.

You believe this, then this logically follows. You believe this, this logically follows. And it is now happening because of technology. I always say again, if the Nazis had this technology, they would have used it in a heartbeat. Well, the Chinese communists have the technology. Now, it's a very interesting discussion to also be had, like in the medical field, right? There's kind of two sides.

One is this utilitarian bioethics that we described, right? This would be a great sort of, you know, topic for Socrates in the city. The other side is Hippocratic medicine. Whereas a doctor or a caregiver, I just, I have to look at you in your entirety. and I have to figure out how best I can treat your unique reality and also how to make sure that whatever interventions I'm not using don't harm you personally. The other type of approach, the utilitarian approach,

even for the people that are do-goating, right? Imagine, you know, there's people that believe in this that don't imagine themselves to be evil at all, but what they do believe is sacrificing the few for the good of the many. And this actually always escalates. And one of the things I realize while writing this book is there's this maxim that's often ascribed to Stalin, right, which is to make an omelet, you have to break a few eggs. You've heard that. Right. And I was like, man,

that's actually exactly utilitarian bioethics personified ultimately. Right. And so we, I, this is, this is a central theme, actually. A lot of the book is about just kind of trying to understand, you know, how this sort of thing is basically a feature of communism. And you kind of, you've, spoken to this because you understand it quite well, rather than a bug. This is a kind of a logical conclusion of something that a communist system would beget, if you will, this sort of extractive repression as one of the researchers describes it. Well, the book is called Killed to Order, China's Oregon Harvesting Industry. And ladies and gentlemen, I want to say again, please share this video.

Please, we have to get the word out. The whole world should know about this. And people need to know there's a book, a brand new book now, killed to order by Jan Yecolic. Jan is J-A-N-Yakalik. and it spells this out. And to me, the big news is always that no one knows this. That's the first headline.

How can we be living at a time where no one knows this? No one knows what's going on. And it's partly because we don't want to know what's going on because to some extent many of us are complicit in this. If you have a worldview that says, I believe in like, what's utilitarianism, what you just said? You know, it always has these fancy terms. It means if I can murder some people to make life better for a lot of other people,

of course I would do it. Sure, because I'm making life better for all these other people. So I'm actually a good guy. Yes, that works perfectly unless you believe human beings are sacred, made in the image of God, to murder them. You know, again, you have to choose that the Bible says, thou shalt do no murder, period. It doesn't say thou shalt do no murder unless you can bless a whole, other group over here. It doesn't say that. To murder a human being is wicked. It is wrong.

God makes it super clear. What if you don't believe that? Well, then you're in this brave, new world that we're talking about. We're there now, folks. We're there now. Human beings have always enslaved other human beings. Human beings have always done wicked things. But if you call yourself any kind of a person who believes in the in the god of the bible for example then you have to think well what is what does that mean what we're dealing with now again we've never seen it like this before we've never had a country with the power and the technology that that china has the communist chinese party the chinese people are good people but the chinese communists earnestly believe these wicked things and we have in part enabled that i've written about it i've talked about it bill

Clinton giving the most favorite nation status, the Republicans foolishly worshipping what they think of as the free market thinking, oh, we're going to open up the market. We're all going to make money and we're going to make the Chinese more democratic or more like us. It hasn't worked that way. In case he didn't know, they are systematically murdering their enemies for money. That's the subject of this book. And Eric, you know, it's worked unfortunately in the other direction. You know, in 2025, HHS has had to decertify two organ transplant systems in America because they were systematically violating the dead donor rule, right? And this is the problem, right? When you have this kind of deep engagement, someone is changing someone. And, you know, it was this huge, you know,

propaganda push saying, we're going to change them. A lot of people believed it. Most people believed it. Believe me, when Epoch Times started, it was like 95%. It didn't matter, left, right, up, down. Everybody believed it. It was shocking. It was shocking. Okay. but actually I think it happened in the other direction. And this is the thing. Like we do engaging makes sense, but you have to understand the true nature of your adversary. And the true nature of the adversaries,

it does stuff like this. And so how do we deal with that? Well, we have to deal with it with open ice. So grateful for you, Jan. So grateful for you for the Epic Times. The book is killed to order China's Oregon harvesting industry and the true nature of America's biggest adversary. Folks, there's no bigger story than this, okay?

Forget about, oh, what the Jews are doing, what the blah, blah, blah. We can talk and talk and talk. This is the largest country in the world today, doing this now because of what they believe. We have to face it. Jan, very grateful for you. Thank you. Eric, thank you so much. While the corrupt federal elites have been quietly building wealth through cryptocurrency,

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