The Eric Metaxas Show - #73 - Roger Kimball

Episode Date: March 12, 2026

Today on The Eric Metaxas Show, Eric talks with Roger Kimball about New York City, Islam, and why they argue the West is losing civilizational confidence. They discuss whether the Islam vs Islamism distinction holds up, why assimilation and shared values matter for a free society, and what is happening in Europe and England right now. Then they pivot to Iran, regime change predictions, and why they believe Trump is reshaping the global order from the border to energy to foreign policy.

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Hey, the folks, today's guest is a very, very special guest. Roger Kimball, he's been on the program many times. Anything I talked to him about, I learned things. He's extraordinary. But before we go to him, we have a sponsor on this program. Some of you don't know about it. It's a new sponsor. It is 10 Boom Coffee.

Is that ringing a bell? 10 Boom? You've heard of Corey 10 Boom. Their coffee is kind of all about her legacy. 10 Boomcoffee.com is the website. 10 boomcoffee.com. If you use the promo code Eric, you say 15%. 10 boom coffee.com.

Use promo code Eric. Hey there folks. Welcome to the program, the Eric Pataxis show. I play the role of Eric Mataxis. And I get to interview some really, really wonderful people. I am very excited to have as my guest right now, right this minute, Roger Kimball starting now. Welcome, Roger. Thank you, Eric. It's great to be here. In case people don't know who you are, you are Roger Kimball.

I am. I am indeed Roger Kimball. And associated with that, you are the editor of the new Criterion. That's correct. Which is really worth checking out. It is. You weren't aware. And you head up Encounter Books. Exactly. All right, I want to talk about everything. I want to talk to you about everything. So where do we start? How about we start? You and I are both professing Christians, which means that we believe in religious tolerance and religious liberty. Yes.

But that doesn't mean we believe all faiths are equal. In fact, I think some faiths are not only false, but dramatically pernicious. And recently in New York City, where we both are now, we have seen. some examples of the nasty side of Islam. We have a mayor. I really, rarely use terms like this, but there's something diabolical about this young man, really frightening to me.

I've always felt that there's a lot diabolical about, for example, you know, Barack Obama, but there's something particularly unpleasant about this mayor. So let's start there. Something particularly unpleasant about this mayor. Yeah. Well, you know, I just learned

this morning, in fact, a woman who speaks Arabic, understands Arabic, was reporting on the speech that the mayor gave to celebrate his victory. And according to this woman, I have not independently corroborated it, but I very much suspect that it's true. In the course of this speech, he quoted with evident approval. Surah 9-5 from the Quran.

Now, anyone who's looked into this repository of, medieval aspiration, we'll know that it is full of extremely violent, not only imagery, but violent imperatives. So, for example, Surah 9-5 enjoins the followers of Muhammad to kill infidels by the sword wherever they are found. Not that we're judging, mind you, because we're cool with murdering infidels. We're totally cool with murdering Christians and Jews. Of course.

We don't take any position on that. Yes, like Maldami's wife who's merely a private person when she was celebrating the October 7th slaughter in Gaza. And it turns out there wasn't just one

Facebook post. There were several. She's New York's own Winnie Mandela. Yes. That's right. That's right. So it's... Now, of course, you know, the Old Testament is full of fairly robust imagery and implication as well. But there's something different about the Quran, it seems to me.

And it's especially, I think, shocking that the mayor of the largest city in this country that houses the largest Jewish population in the country. Loaded with Jews, folks. New York City, loaded with Jews. Why he would cite such scripture? if in fact he did. Honestly, that is so shocking. I have to make a joke.

Are you kidding that the mayor cited that particular script for? It's very easy to find on your handy dandy iPhone or Android device. You just search for it and it will pop up instantly. Now, again, I want to say

that I did not independently corroborate this, but it is so much in keeping with what the mayor has said that... Even if he didn't say it, his wife was just exposed as

having applauded, approved of the vilest stuff about October 7th and murdering and raping Jews. That's the wife of the mayor of New York City. Yes. We're not supposed to talk about this? Sorry, we're going to talk about it.

Yes, yeah, I mean, somebody said well, yeah, well, Eva Brown was just a private person. Eva Brown actually... Eva Brown actually was a private person compared to Mumdana's wife. You never saw Eva Brown publicly with Gerefure. Right, right. Am I pronouncing that correctly?

Yeah, dear Fuhr. Good enough, yes. You never saw Eva Brown, but you see the mayor's wife. She is the mayor's wife. She lives in Gracie Mansion, which we pay for. Yes, we do. So, that's pretty public. And she applauded the torture and rape and murder of Jews.

Yes. Or am I missing something? Yes. No, I don't think so. And this raises a deeper problem. I wrote a lot about Islam in the aftermath of 9-11, as probably you did. Everyone was writing about it. And there was a moment when well-meaning people would distinguish between Islam, which was a good thing, and Islamism, which was said to be a bad thing.

Right. I'm not sure that distinction really holds water. For example, what do you call the religion of Catholics? I believe it's Catholicism, isn't it? What do you call the religion of a presbyterianism? What do you call the religion of a Buddhist? It's Buddhism. Likewise, Islam is Islamism.

Right. And I think that the problem, if you had to put your finger on the critical issue with Islam in a modern, secular, Republic, democracy, it is this, that unlike Christianity, unlike Judaism, unlike most of the world's great religions, Islam in principle does not accord a space of legitimacy for the secular world. So in Christianity, we famously see Jesus saying, render under Caesar, that which is Caesar's, and that an unto god that which is gods there that is impossible at islam because everything falls under the purview of allah so so that's why they get so upset when um you have uh you know

confections for children in the shape of a pig thus you can't do that uh you that's why uh they intrude so aggressively into the secular world, and because it is a militant religion and a proselytizing religion, aggressively prosely proselytizing religion, they believe that the entire world must come under the purview of Islam. Now, Winston Churchill, in his famous book, The River War, talked about Islam a little bit, And he said there is no more retrograde force in the world than Islam. So that's back around 1900.

He saw what it was then, and it has simply evolved. And it has deep roots in many sovereign states in the West. And it's a big problem. So look what's happening in England as Kier-Starmor. the prime minister just said, did he admit it? Let me just point out, he's no Churchill. Yes, he's definitely no Churchill. But he said, the face of England is Islamic.

Islam is the face of England. Well, what does that mean? What does that mean? And so, you know, it means he's a coward. Yes. And a fool. I mean, that's the first thing that it means. Yes, yes.

So it's a very, we're in a very odd situation where it's almost, like a scene from that famous or infamous novel by Jean Raspai, the Camp of the Saints, which is a dystopian novel, first written in 1974, but it's just reissued in a new translation. And it tells the story of what might happen were Europe and the United States to be overrun by the third world, which is exactly what's happening now. So to a very large extent, France and England have become Islamic outposts. So we're kind of back to the situation of, you know, Europe under the Ottomans. It's a very odd situation. And I don't, I, you know, you step back and say, well, how can this possibly be? You look at, you look at scenes from Iran,

from Tehran, for example, in the 1970s. And there, you know, there's, you know, women walking around like normal human beings and colorful, colorful garbs, their heads are uncovered, and everybody's having a good time. Now, since they treat their women like chattel, they're dressed up like fire plugs and look ridiculous, but it's probably good you can't see their faces because I'm sure there would be misery written all over them.

And that's why, you know, it's, this is falsely attributed to Vladimir Lennon, but it's a very good line, that there are decades where nothing happens and then there were weeks when decades happened. And that's what's going on right now. I mean, you know, the United States is prosecute, together with Israel, is prosecuting a corrective action, corrective kinetic action in Iran.

We are, as the president said, we pretty much have destroyed their navy. We have destroyed their capacity to retaliate against Israel and others with ballistic missiles and drones are pretty much destroyed it. and we are going to make it impossible for them to attack their neighbors or develop nuclear weapons. I don't believe we found the nearly thousand pounds of enriched uranium they have, but we will find it. And I believe that within, I'll make a prediction, within two weeks, there will be a new regime in Iran. And this is something that has enormous popular support. You look on the

Well, the internet's a little hard to judge Because of course they've shut down the internet Pretty much But I know that there's enormous support In Iran itself from the people Many thousands of whom of course The Mullahs have slaughtered With indiscriminate violence

Over the past several weeks and months Why? Because they were protesting This horrible, theocratic, Misogynistic anti-human death cult that is the regime. And it's, just to kind of go on the little tributary here, I think Donald Trump is going to be accorded very high accolades by history. I've never seen anyone as active and as successful as this president. He will be accorded one of the greatest presidents in our history up there alongside George.

Washington, Abraham Lincoln, FDR, who I disagree with, but he was a great president, and Ronald Reagan, Trump will be right up there. It's amazing what he has done. And, you know, that's Iran is one part of the world. Look at what he's doing in Latin America. Within a week or two, Cuba, the regime in Cuba will fall. Well, this is the question is what will happen? I mean, we sit here now. Today's, what, the 10th of March? Yes. I have to say the, what's going on in Iran, who would lead a new government? Because it's kind of like with Venezuela, I mean, you know, you can pick a mullah to run it, but we don't want democracy.

And the people there don't want theocracy. Who runs something besides a theocracy? Yeah, when we were both in London last year, the Shaws, the late Shaws, son, Pahlavi, was in London giving speeches to great acclaim, and he, I would say, is a leading candidate to come back. There seems to be a fair amount of popular support. I've heard that Donald Trump is not terrifically keen on him. He has a few other ideas. I think what we want is not another supreme leader, but we want the fall of the Islamist regime at the Islamic regime and the institution of a popularly chosen democratic secular regime. I suspect that the

president will have something to say in who that is, who's going to lead it. But the Iranian people have to have to make those decisions for themselves, just as the Venezuelan people will make the decision for themselves about who is going to lead Venezuela. We're not going to allow another communist, narco-terrorist to run the country. Although isn't that what we have in Delsey? Well, she is a socialist, definitely.

She seems to be, she's pliable, but I don't think she's going to be very long for that role. I think this lady was Machado, I think her name is. That's possible. But Machado was not, was not, Trump was not particularly sanguine about Machado

And you're saying that he's not so positive about Riza Pallavi. So it's interesting. Yes. But I mean, the headline for me, if somebody says, what do I think? What do I think? I trust Donald Trump. He has proved himself over the years that we can trust him. That this is not somebody we have to second guess him very much.

Yeah, no, I believe that's true. And I find it surprising that I think that because when he first was wrong, running back in 2015, I thought it was kind of a joke. But, you know, as time went on, I was listening to what he was saying. You know, I agree with that. And he's very effective. You know, this book, The Art of the Deal, it turns out he knows the art of the deal. And he has, he's done extraordinary things on the border, on energy, on drugs, on the presence of violent illegal immigrants. immigrants in this country. It's just across the board, he's been incredibly successful. So I think you can trust Donald Trump. And I think that he is remaking the world to be a better place all over

the world. And that's the question of what are the limits of that? And again, if people are sloppy, many people are sloppy and they think sloppily and they don't understand what that means, you know, there are limits to what an American president can do. And you and I, I want there to be limits. We don't want a king, and neither do we want a king of the world or an emperor. But what a beautiful thing to see a president exercising the power that we gave him. You and I, and everyone who voted for him gave him this power. And the way our government works, it means everyone in America gave him this power by adopting a system where we can elect our chief executive.

And so it's a beautiful thing to see someone exercising American power. Without apology. Without apology and clearly benevolently. This is, I think people, you know, we've all been trained to be wary of power and we should. But we forget that power can be exercised benevolently. Yes. And it seems to me that Donald Trump has been remarkably restrained in his exercise of power. I mean, Pete, you know, the left says, oh, well, he's done.

doing this, he's going against the courts. He is not gone against one Supreme Court decision, not one. Now, the district court judges who want to arrogate to themselves the power of the executive, that's something else. He will go against them. He will follow their orders while they're in force, but he will, of course, appeal those judgments and those restraining orders. And in almost every case, the Supreme Court has found for the Trump administration. It's been a one or two setbacks. So almost in every case. So it's really quite extraordinary what's going on, whether you're looking at, you know, the legal situation, the financial situation, the prestige of our country situation. You know, he's been remarkably successful. And that's why

I thought that there, you know, a few months ago, there were these so-called no kings rallies wherever. I think Bruce Springsteen is charging $4 billion a ticket for a no King's musical tour. I mean, it's preposterous because here's Donald Trump who won in a kind of a landslide

won the popular vote as well as the electoral vote. So he is like the opposite of a king. And it just shows you that there's something about the left-wing mentality, especially when aggravated by Trump derangement syndrome that renders people incapable of independent thought.

They can go to a rally and jump up and down with their sore osbade signs denouncing whatever this week's pseudo-outrages. But they seem to be incapable of judging things empirically by what actually is happening. Well, he has, Trump has had the effect of causing them really to go crazy. I mean, we've never seen anything like it. There's nothing to compare in our lifetime. And, you know, the old Greek saying, those whom the gods would destroy, they first drive crazy, right?

And that's, you know, Chuck Schumer, for example. One of the big things on the docker right now is the so-called Save America Act. And what is the Save America Act about it? Well, it's about making sure that you are a duly registered U.S. citizen. if you are going to vote in a U.S. election. That's what it's about.

Of course, Chuck Schumer says this disenfranchises tens of millions of people. It's Jim Crow 2.0. Can we even believe, I mean, honestly, Roger, it's almost unbelievable. Yes, it is. Incredible in the literal sense. The level of lunacy, the histrionics, and then just the bold lying. Yes, I kind of admire the ability to choose that. I mean, Chuck Schumer has.

to know that what he's saying is completely ridiculous. Why does he say it? Well, there are two reasons. One is it's, he thinks of it as being legitimate partisan party politics. Okay, I'm a Democrat. I'm going to rail against the other party. But the underlying, the real reason is that Chuck Schumer, he's not a stupid man, he understands that if the elections are run fairly, the Democrats will not win. they will never win. Yes, their strategy, they only have one strategy. It's called, gee, cheating. And you know what? That's not a legitimate strategy, so we're going to have some problems here.

No, it's just extraordinary. I want to talk for a minute about, you mentioned Kier Starrmer. Yes. It doesn't really get more pathetic than Starmer. But Trump, I wonder, I guess I wonder how far this will go. I mean, if we're sitting here three or four years in the future. Yes. whether this dramatic shakeup of the whole world could redound to the benefit of the British people

and that they might somehow find their way back in the way that we have. It's going to be difficult. I think, yes, possibility is cheap. It's definitely possible. But, you know, the British people have to grow a spine, and they have to be willing to put themselves out, out there, and take their country back. This is going to, it will be painful because they will have to deport a lot of people. They will have to insist that if you come to Britain, you must assimilate.

You must become British. You must subscribe to our values, not the value of the... But this is the thing is so basic. Yeah. And we've, I mean, we've lost that to large extent. The left has lost it in this country. But it's so basic. I was looking at my parents' naturalization papers from 1960. And I think that my mother and my father, how happy they were, how happy they were that they got to become Americans. Yes. And they wanted to become Americans and raise their children as Americans. And that's what you need. If somebody's going to come from another country, it's like, you have to be excited about becoming this other thing. Otherwise, feel free not to come. Yes. But clearly that's been relaxed by the left in this country. Yes.

It's been relaxed by the left in Europe. Yes. And, you know, somebody called it a lack of civilizational confidence, I think. Yes. Yep. Or cultural confidence. Maybe you. Was it you? Well, I've always wanted to know.

But, you know. Because, but isn't that the point is that if Islam, they know what they believe. Yes. And they're not shy about it. And if you don't know what you believe, you're, you're, That's right. And so for a season. Nature abhors a vacuum.

That's true in politics and the civilizational vocation as much as it is in the physical world. And if you have a vacuum, it will be filled by whatever is pushing hardest and Islam pushes very hard. Well, what I've, as I think you know, I've just finished writing a book about the American Revolution. I've been so fascinating. Congratulations. Thank you. It's out June 2nd, I believe. I hope so, yes.

No, listen, I'm so excited about it because it has refreshed my understanding of who we are. What does it mean to be an American? And at the heart of it is Christian faith. Now, what I mean by that is that at the heart of it is Christian faith. And I almost feel like the enlightenment, criticisms of religion, forced the Christians in America in a way to sharpen their theology. and to say, okay, we believe in religious liberty. That actually comes out of what we believe.

So you have George Washington at some point. He's, Benedict Arnold is in 1776 on his way up to Canada, which is Catholic. Yes. And you have the letter, I quoted my book, but you have the letter of Washington, sternly telling Benedict Arnold listen, Like, you're not up there to point out their theological errors. Washington believes the Catholics have theological errors. See, he doesn't even hide that, but he says, but you are to be utterly respectful and utterly

so even though Americans believe this is the right theology, that's the wrong theology, we make a place, we have made a place. We say if you grew up in a Muslim country and you want to come here, as long as you're a good citizen, we're not going to force you to adopt our theology. Right. But there is a part of that theology that says you must be a good citizen. Yes. You remember Samuel Huntington that famously wrote The Clash of Civilizations, which is kind of about this a little bit.

But he also wrote his last book, I believe, was a book called Who We Are. And he basically said that American values are Anglo-Protestant values. Anglo-Protestant. And this, of course, caused everybody. Oh, this is terrible. How could he possibly say that? But it's true. So it doesn't mean you have to be of, you know, British descent or it doesn't mean you have to be a Protestant.

But there are values that go along with that package. And you must subscribe to that. And that's, you know, he, in John, no, it's James Madison, I think. He said for, there has to be virtue in the people for our Constitution to work. John Adams said that this Constitution works for a more. and religious people that's not fit for any other sort. So you put all this stuff together and you realize that, you know, if you want to come here, be an American,

then you have to subscribe to those tenants and not more than tenants. It's you have to subscribe to the values that have made America what it is. And conspicuously, many, many who subscribe to Islam have not done that. Right. But I don't blame them. They haven't been forced to do it. It's our job to force them to do it and to say, like, you're welcome to come, but these are the rules. And if you don't lay out any rules, and obviously in England and in Germany and in France,

they don't have any sense of what they believe. So how can they tell people? You know, I don't believe that the word Christianity occurs. in the EU's constitution, the 60,000 work. That's correct. So what does that tell you? To me, that tells you that they've lost touch with the, you know, the fundamental current that made Europe Europe. And so it's not surprising.

Again, we, you know, nature abhors a vacuum. If there's, if you don't, if you're not willing to stand up for yourself, then you shouldn't be surprised that there will be others who will, stand in for you. And that's what's happening. It's, it's, it's, it's a frightening situation. But, you know, in England, they do have some people who might help rescue them. People like Najel Farage, very able politician, whether he has, uh, sufficient, um, you know, critical mass, uh, politically to, uh, make the reform party, uh, a politically

viable entity. I don't know the answer to that. But I'm certain that Britain cannot continue down the path that it has been following and survive. There will still be a place called England or, you know, Londonstan or whatever. But it will no longer be England. And the clock is ticking. The clock is ticking. The same thing is true of France. Germany, it seems to me to be not quite so far down that road, but I might be wrong about that. Well, I mean, it is, It is, I really, I hope that things are bad enough that there are people waking up and there are voices and people. And look at what happened in Italy.

I mean, Georgia Maloney has been fantastic. Wow. She's accomplished an immense amount in just a few years. How amazing. And, you know, we have other leaders around the world in Argentina, Miele. I mean, he's incredible. Really, he's the Donald Trump of South America. You have Bucaly and El Salvador.

There are many people around the world who are taking back their countries. And I like to see it. Well, it's exciting. And that's why we were saying a few minutes ago, Trump is helping to remake the whole world. Where that goes, we don't know. But I am genuinely hopeful.

I don't think that he survived that assassination. attempt for nothing. I don't think it was luck. I'm told that he doesn't think it was for nothing either. Well, I have told him bluntly and forcefully that it was God's miraculous power that saved him for such a time as this, for God's purposes in history, not for Donald Trump's purposes or our purposes. And I think many others have said that, and he clearly seems to get it. And I'm sure he needs to be reminded of it now and again. But the things that we're seeing,

I mean, can we dream that Cuba may... Yes, within weeks. And you think so. Weeks. And why do you say that? Why do you say that? Because Marco Rubio says it. And Donald Trump says it.

And because they're without electricity, essentially, over most of the island. There are widespread riots against the regime in Havana and other large cities. The mantra is down with communism, Libertad, you know, it's, you know, everywhere. And, you know, that's another kind of a beneficent, coefficient effect of what happened in Venezuela. It wasn't just getting rid of the narco-terrorist dictator, Maduro. It also got rid of Venezuela as a kind of narco-cleptocracy that was provided a haven for anti-American forces from Iran, from China, from Iran's proxy, Hamas. They were all congregating

there, like, you know, pooling like a horrible toxin. And our presidents allowed it. Yes. Our Feclous, miserable presidents before Trump allowed it. I guess, you know, as we talk about these things, China is surely shivering with fear. To see what is happening in Iran makes them ask the question, will our people rise up? Yes, well, they should ask that question. They should ask that question.

And I know that there are millions of Christians in China, millions of Christians in Iran, who, and not just the Christians, but who believe roughly what we believe and who would rise up. And so I think that China knows, I mean, it's one of the amazing things

is how Trump has dealt with China. It's just masterly. Unbelievable. Masterly. And you know, the... Baseball is back, and the first pitch is on Netflix. The New York Yankees,

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Learn more at adobe.com slash do that with acrobat. China is our most serious world rival. There's no question about that. But it's very wise to keep in mind that China is riddled with very serious problems. They had a huge demographic issue. They have a huge economic growth issue. I remember I was having lunch with Henry Kissinger some years, not that many years ago, say eight years ago.

And he said, no, if the growth, China's growth rate goes below 10%, there will be riots in the street. Well, it's probably about 3% now. And, you know, look at what just happened there in the military. There was an attempted coup, and Xi had to displace many of his top generals. I mean, it was really, it was basically a coup was, you know, for me, around him. And there's huge, huge problems. It's not to say that China's not a problem for us, it is. but she's tenure there is, I would say, dicey.

Yeah. Dicey. Well, I just think we're at a civilizational moment. Yes. An inflection point, as I think Joe Biden used to call it. That's an inflection point. The auto pen used to write that term. I don't know if he knew that term.

But it is true, and we are alive now and we get to see it. And I think people need to pray for this president. Yes. Because we will say, I am worried. Trump is out there doing so much, irritating, so many bad people that I worry about his safety. Yeah. I really do work. Now, it is true that the security around him now is formidable, you know.

And I don't think there will be another butler, but Butler, but he needs to be, he is well protected. He needs to be well protected. Well, I'll close by saying, I am convinced God's hand is on him that God created him in his mother's womb for such a time as this, and God will protect him as long as he needs to be protected.

Roger Campbell, it's always fun to talk to you. I'm sorry to say we're done, but great to have you. Thanks for being my guest. All right, thank you, Eric. I don't like alarmism. I don't like fear-mongering. I especially don't like people who profit from panic.

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