The Eric Metaxas Show - #77 - Naomi Wolf

Episode Date: March 18, 2026

Today on The Eric Metaxas Show, Eric talks with Naomi Wolf about Tucker Carlson’s comments, the growing anti-Israel turn on the right, the effort to divide Christians and Jews, and why they believe biblical truth and religious liberty are both under attack in this cultural moment. Subscribe for clips from The Eric Metaxas Show to hear politics and culture from a Christian perspective.

Hey there, folks. Welcome to the program. It is now my duty and honor to have a conversation with Naomi Wolf. Naomi, I just love having you on for many reasons. We talk about important things usually, but we have fun, which is a big goal for me. Where do we start? I mean, it's your show. There's so much to cover.

Well, we can, we haven't talked since I was. described this is so funny I don't I take in very little media I don't like watch the podcast or whatever so I'll see stuff maybe on Instagram but I'm not I don't have time to consume media or podcasts but

I saw the other day a clip of Tucker Carlson having a conversation with the Wicked Witch of the West and he he knows me he's read my books he's praised my books He's praised me. He's had me on his program and has just been extremely kind and gracious.

But now something's going on in his life. So when my name came up, did you hear what he said? I listened to the whole thing. You came up about four times. I didn't watch it. I'm unaware of this. I'm not kidding. Really?

I only know one brief comment. Yeah. I mean, that was kind of the, well, it was pretty awful. The brief comment, you probably know better than I, but it's something like he's a very disturbed individual. No, no, he said the exact words were deeply troubled. Deeply troubled. And I actually burst out laughing. That's just the funniest thing I've heard in a long time.

Like, you can say a lot of things about me. Yeah. You could hate me and describe me. You're not troubled enough, Eric. To say that I'm deeply troubled, to have him piously say he's, he's, he's, damn. Who do you do but laugh? Like I just, I'm not kidding. On some level, like my heart goes out to him.

Like, I don't know what is going on with him. It's not good. Not good. It's bad. Yeah. And it's not an argument, you know, like it's we've, we all learned, we're all of the same generation. We all learned in debate club that you don't make an unsubstantiated personal swipe at someone

and then just keep driving rhetorically. You know, that's not debate. It's not like he's mistaken on this page. I can show he got it wrong. That wasn't it. It was just this drive-by, deeply troubled, deeply disturbed, whatever his choice of words. But it's honestly, I find it hilarious. I mean, if I know anything about myself, I'm definitely not deeply troubled.

Like, it's just, it's just, you know, you want to say that I'm wrong about something. But anyway, it becomes some level of comedy. It's interesting, Naomi, because I haven't spoken much, I hope, on this program about Tucker or about Candace Owens. But what's interesting for me, and this is kind of like solving for X in algebra, when somebody is making all kinds of comments, you can have a general sense that they're wrong or they're crazy or this or that. But when they say something very specific about something you know, so when Candace Owens, she's throwing out ideas and I can say, well, that's generally ridiculous. But when she then accuses people that I know personally who are friends

of possibly being involved in the murder of my friend Charlie Kirk, that's when you just go, okay, ladies and gentlemen, stop. I know for a fact. that's that's nuts that's crazy to say that because I know these people and but the whole thing is such a train wreck that I have generally avoided speaking about her or or Tucker it's just such a hot mess yeah yeah to use a phrase and I think you know and I know that in the end these things sort themselves out they do You know, Hitler died in the bunker. You don't get away with madness or lies forever.

I would add some context to that, Eric, because that can be, we're in such time of people taking things out of context. I would not want anyone to misconstrue what you just said. That Tucker lives in a bunker? No, I don't mean that. What I meant was, thank you for saying that. All I meant was that in the end, you know, the truth comes out. To quote Shakespeare, the truth will out. Eventually, the truth will out.

It's very sad that it takes sometimes a long time, but I just have a sense that some of the craziness that's being peddled will sort itself out. I hope sooner rather than later, obviously. So, yes, and I generally agree with you that we have to keep our eyes on the prize, stay above the fray, not get sucked into the whirlpool of, you know, fecal, had her on, you know, various corners of the internet. But there are two things I do want to say big picture. And often as a public figure, I'm in a situation in which I'm finishing a book

or just trying to stay calm and happy. And I'm like, don't tell me the latest awful thing that someone said imagining, imaginations about Naomi Wolf. But in this case, I do want to tell you, it's not about you. He mentioned your book without really mentioning, he said he was, he said, wrote a biography of Martin Luther, a book about Martin Luther, and then he used it in the context of just introducing the title of, I guess, something Martin Luther wrote, The Lies of the Jews. And then he, yes, the lie. This is the first time hearing of this, because as you know, I've been in a deep, in the sub-sub-sub-basement trying to finish my book on the American Revolution.

So I have really avoided all this. I have not heard that. I know that he read my book on Martin Luther and praised it effusively, but I didn't know that he had mentioned this part. So I want to keep going for just a minute because I do want to keep going. Please don't let me go. Yeah. Well, he mentioned it as if you once understood the lies of the Jews and now for whatever reason you've abandoned your own representation of the importance of knowing about the lies of the Jews. And the reason I'm mentioning this, and I'm sorry because like this happens to me, oh my God, I can't believe someone took me out of context like that.

But he did that. And the reason I ordinarily try to ignore nonsense, but I think it's really important to look at what's happening big picture is that big picture, to me, as a political consultant, it's is what's clearly happening is money of some kind or pressure of some kind is flowing on some important. folkspeople in the conservative side of the of maga to bring about a rift between christians and jews and to lead christians to turn on abandon demean or biblically mischaracterized their relationship to jews and to judasism you know as the the religion from which christianity emerges are cognate religions religions with a vendiagram um and and he's especially attacking and i think This is why he's going after you, American Zionists, or I'm sorry, Christian Zionists. So I'm not trying to, you know, take a position politically.

I'm America first. I'm MAGA, right? I want President Trump to keep winning. I want, I want the, I want MAGA to win the midterms. I want MAGA to win, you know, the next presidential election. But it's so clear. But notice the Democrats are silent, right? They're quiet as they're watching the conservatives devour each other.

and they're watching this split between Christians and Jews. So big picture, what I'm seeing is whoever's whipping up this, like, insane broth of biblical distortion, new mythologies about, you know, the role of Israel in relation to Christianity, you know, new theologies that encourage Christians to abandon Jews, to turn on Jews, to think Jews are trying to convert them, which my dear friend Emerald Robinson, insanely has been proposing that Operation Shabbat Shalom, in which Jews invite Christians to, you know, come to Shabbat services, is an op or Shabbat is an op, you know, CIA op to convert them, which is against our religion. We're not supposed to be converting anyone. It's insane. All of this is kind of erupting out of nowhere. There could be like a metaphysical reason for it, but there could also be a practical reason, which is radical Islam is trying to take over our nation in conjunction with Marxists. And if you turn on the natural alliance, if you lead the natural alliance of Christians and Jews in America to turn on each other, it opens the door for things like Zor and Mom Donnie in New York. That's my rant. Now I'm done. I don't like alarmism. I don't like fear mongering. I especially don't like people who profit from panic. But I do believe in telling the truth, especially when the markets are reminding us how fragile things are. Over the last few weeks, we've all watched the volatility, stock swinging, confidence shaking, long-estanding.

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Wisdom matters more than optimism. Yeah, you always talk too much. This is my show. No, I tell you, there's so much there. Okay. First of all, part of what's going on,

and, you know, I hate to be a broken record, but it is diabolical. This is a spiritual war, folks. You're dealing with satanic evil. Now, you don't have to agree with me on that, but I think that's at the heart of it, and I think there's many reasons for me to say that.

But what's going on, part of what's going on, as you just said, is that you have these folks, whether they're doing it wittingly or unwittingly or some doing it wittingly, some doing it unwittingly, but they are trying to divide Christians and Jews. That's one thing. but there are other folks who are trying to divide Catholics from evangelicals.

I, you know, I have been coming to faith in the late 80s, my hero was Chuck Colson. He put out this book and he was part of moving evangelicals and Catholics together. There's so much we have in common. We don't need to agree on every doctrine. And so he and Father Richard John Newhouse, who was a giant of the faith, they worked together. And I took my lead from that. I thought we're in a dark culture that denies God. And we don't need to major in, you know, fighting with each other.

It doesn't mean that we don't take theology seriously. But there's something beautiful about Catholics and evangelicals linking arms on things that we believe in in common. And so I thought it was just one of the shibboleths of being serious about my faith as a Christian that Christians stand. with the Jews, whatever that means, because clearly there's room for, you know, what does that mean? Is the 1948 is Israel, biblical Israel, but there's a whole conversation. But generally speaking, the people that I knew who loved Jesus had a love of the Jewish people, a love of Israel. That was just kind of basic. And so suddenly this thing has entered. And part of it is the reason it's so diabolical is you have people claiming that this is what Catholic,

believe. That is a lie. That is a lie. Now, with some people who are, I guess, technically Catholics, for like 20 minutes, they've been Catholics, they're now dictating, this is what Catholics believe. And if you don't agree with me, you're attacking my Catholic faith. You're going a little too fast. When you say it entered this ideology, which I'm hearing about, and I don't know where it came from, entered, where from where. And also when you're saying, this is what Catholics believe, do you mean replacement theology? Do you mean various idea that Christians don't, you know, have

Well, I guess I'll put it this way. I'll put it this way. A number of the figures that we might mention, whether Nick Fuentes or Candace Owens or Carrie Baller,

they dare to identify publicly as Catholics. But every serious Catholic I know, starting with John Mirak says that they're they're lunatics. They're using that term. You know, that's like if I shoot somebody in the head and say, I'm a Christian, you'd be like, well, most Christians would say, we don't believe in murder. So you're throwing this term around very, very unhelpfully. And that's part of this play here, is that there are a number of folks who they identify,

James Lindsay talks about the woke right, because he's, they use that identity. identity kind of as a as a shield or as a victim thing. Oh, you're just attacking me because you hate Catholics and you think, well, no, most Catholics that I know don't agree with you. So you're, so I guess this is all to say that they're saying very unhelpful and confusing things. And the result, the fruit is division and confusion. A lot of people are getting sucked into this. Right. And it does need some correction. So I don't know what you just said about. Tucker referencing my book. Can I speak to that briefly?

Please, it's your show and also. Well, no, but I was joking around. My show, turns out it's an interview show. So I really want you to do most of the talking, and I apologize. But what you just said, it's very interesting. And I have to say, I've noticed this, particularly with Tucker,

where it's kind of like I said earlier, where somebody gets something wrong and I know it's wrong. It's not like, well, it's like, no, no, no. Like, I know. Right. And so in my book on Luther, I have a copy right here.

I make it very clear that in the beginning of his life, he was extremely pro-Jewish. He was really hopeful that, you know, as many Christians believe that, you know, the scripture, the New Testament says, this is for the Jew first, you know, that many Jews are excited about Jesus as their Messiah. And he was really excited.

Jesus said that. Jesus said that. Jesus kept saying that. Well, I mean, I'm referencing one of Paul's epistles, but the point is, clearly he came for the Jews. This was not to invent a new religion called Christianity. This was the fulfillment. Jesus was the fulfillment. That's what Christians believe. In any event, Luther early in life, was really sanguine about bringing Jews to faith.

He was just excited about it. And he blamed the Catholic Church for the way they had treated Jews. And he was very critical of how the church had horribly treated Jews, which of course is correct. Later in life, Hitler became, I'm going to reference Hitler in a second. Luther became very cranky, sick with a host of diseases. And he would just crankily, crankily, dyspeptically, harshly viciously

criticize everyone the Catholics super viciously the Pope superficiously the Muslim super viciously

and the Jews superficiously so when Hitler comes to power 400 years later what do what does Gubbles do the minister of propaganda

he finds the worst thing that Luther said about the Jews which is vile and he puts it front and center, as though it was one of the main teachings of Luther, which of course it was not. It was just in this litany of things that he said at the end of his life in his dyspeptic phase.

And they elevated it a horrible pamphlet that Luther wrote called on the Jews and their lies, which is just, it's just awful. But the Nazis used it. They used it. Wow. So Tucker's invoking Nazi propaganda invoking Luther. Well, it seems to me, and I've noticed this with Tucker, and I'm trying to be gracious here, I've noticed this with him. He can be intellectually very sloppy, and he says things.

I mean, it's one thing to have an honest disagreement, but he has said a number of things that I just go, you're just wrong. Like, I wouldn't be talking about that because you're getting this wrong. I happen to know you're getting it wrong. And it sounds like his characterization of what I write about in the Luther book is just erroneous. Well, it's, he didn't, he wasn't honorable enough respectfully to have a full sentence explaining why he was invoking that horrible and inflammatory title. He left it to implication. So he didn't misstate, which again is kind of sneaky, right? If he had said, well, you know, Martin Luther clearly believed this because this, you know, then you could have a discussion about it.

he just threw the title out there and he understands, I mean, I think it's so irresponsible because completely out of context what his gigantic audience is going to hear is Jews lie. Right? Martin Luther says so. The father of the Reformation says so. Which is precisely what Hitler's propagandists did. They said exactly that. It's like let's lift up Luther as a great example of, you know, why we should hate the Jews. And then ironically, you have Catholics who hate Luther as much as they hate the Jews, but, you know, none of it makes sense. That's what's so horrifying. No, none of it makes sense.

It's like an alternative reality in which everything's being distorted. One thing I want to mention, while I can, before, you know, while we're talking about intellectual honesty, is Tucker Carlson, again, like, I don't want to, like, jump on him. But there's clearly like a machine of memes, you know, a discourse, a set of talking points going to the people that you identify because they're all on the same page with really novel, un-American interpretations of what are Jews, what are Christians, what is, you know, what is the Catholic Church believe, right? And so this twisted version of a lot of things is coming out of these three or four big platforms and then being picked up, picked up, picked up by kind of a tree of a telephone tree of lesser platforms and then it becomes part of our popular erroneous popular consciousness.

One thing I just want to mention about just being wrong and it worries me because as you know, I'm reading through the 1560 Geneva Bible, great Reformation Bible, and comparing it to the Hebrew Bible and comparing those to the revised standard version. And we've talked about the project. It's incredible. But anyway, weirdly, we're at numbers 24. So the reason I say weird, is I've been reading this chronologically day by day, week by week for two years, right? I just happened to reach the blessing on the children of Israel. I will bless those who bless you, I'll curse those who curse you. On the day that Tucker Carlson releases this interview with this woman, Carrie Pre-Jean Baller, in which he implies that that blessing over the children

of Israel is invented by Ted Cruz and like, and like, and like, implies the mysterious Jewish lobby behind him. And I'm like, Tucker, don't do that because he's not right. You know, I will bless those who bless you, curse those who curse you. God says it. You know, we didn't make it up. We were having a hard time. We weren't making it to the, you know, promised land. We kept trying to escape God's jobs for us. We didn't want them. God said it in Genesis. God said it again in numbers 24. Also prefiguring a lot of Christians believe the rising of a Messiah out of the seat of, you know, out of Jacob, out of the children of Israel. A star will go forth from Jacob, a scepter will arise. But Balam, who's not even Jewish, well, Jews don't exist at that time.

He's not even a member of the children of Israel. He's a pagan soothsayer. This pagan king has asked him curse those people, those children of Israel. He's like, I can't. God won't let me. And then And then the day that Tucker said, this is like Ted Cruz trying to force us into a certain relationship to modern Israel that is heretical. We reach that point where God tells Balam, the spirit of God comes on Balam and he says, I'll bless those who bless you, I'll curse those who curse you. And it's like, what are the odds? But I guess I just want to say, I mean, I'm not saying, you know, the timing of my reading

is in some cosmic alignment with, you know, a disdain. famous person on a huge platform, inverting that blessing and saying it wasn't from God, misattributing it. I think it's an interesting coincidence. But I do think spiritually, the Old Testament shows it is very dangerous to distort or mock God's actual words. So I just want to say, Tucker Carlson must know that he's getting it just factually wrong, wrong scholarship, read the Bible. I looked up a Christian Bible for Numbers 24, the new international version. I will bless those who bless you. I'll curse those who curse you. The Spirit of God. Like it's not Ted Cruz. You know, so I just want to put that out there. Like, that's another

example of like unbiblical or anti-biblical distortion of God's word. It really worries me. It's wrong and it's nefarious. Well, look, it's one of the basic, it's one of the most basic things in Christian faith that we know that God speaks this in a number of ways. Now, we can argue about the details. But, you know, it's interesting. George Gilder, the super genius George Gilder, wrote a book called The Israel Test. And I ought to have him on Socrates in the studio just to discuss that book. But he talks essentially about how historically those who have bled,

blessed Israel have been outrageously blessed. Just something to consider, ladies and gentlemen, whatever that means. But I mean, there's so much here, Naomi. I guess we just have to be clear. We're living in really crazy times. You know this better than anyone I do. The mayoralty of Mamdani is like something out of a fever dream, out of a bad novel.

It seems incomprehensible that this, lunatic could be the mayor of New York and where this is going to go, I don't know. I think, I don't think it's going to go well for him. I'll just put this out there. I don't have any, you know, it's not like God has spoken this to me. I just have a sense that it's not going to go well. I think that his wife's really sickening commentary, you know, some praise for the some of the stuff that had happened on October 7th.

I don't think anyone's going to let that go. I will never let that go. And at every single press conference or media thing that he does, he should be asked about that forever. And I just, I think that, you know, reality will, will catch up with him. The question is the details, the timing. Can I ask you a question in our last four minutes?

So I literally am getting I got at least one text like naming you like you know as a kind of like how can I put it people you're being targeted

right? Oh I have to be once I appeared once Carrie Baller referenced me in her interview with Tucker all of the insane Groyper Jew haters whatever you know, decided it's probably a million bots

are attacking me and, you know. But why you is my question? Like you're so moderate and text-based. I don't know. I think because I'm on the president's commission on religious liberty, she was on that. I was there the day that she behaved really grievously, really despicably.

I mean, it was breathtaking in the horror of it. It was breathtaking. Dined to know your version of it. You have, I mean, imagine you have Franklin Graham and Ben Carson, just a host of wonderful people giving their time on practically the most important issue there is, religious liberty. It's like it's at the heart of everything. You know, in my book on The Revolution, I talk about it.

It's at the heart of everything. And we're here. We're blessed to have a president who cares enough to have a commission on religious liberty. and she twists the whole thing and really blows up the whole thing so that the president very rightly kicks her off the commission. I mean, there was no way around it.

But, you know, she then goes on and does media and says things. And it's just the whole thing is so grievous. But that's why, you know, she would mention my name. It's why these folks have no how do I put it I mean they're just crazy and they're just they don't

they're not interested in in silly facts they're interested in peddling something and if they can you know demonize another person or whatever I just want to do what I think God wants me to do and I want to say what God wants me to say and if I get something wrong I will apologize but you know I'm not really

I'm certainly not surprised let's put it that way. Wow. Well, I guess I should end by just, you know, noting Matt von Swal, who's a kind of a digital commentator, wrote a fantastic piece, which has gone viral, just a post on X, in which he basically said, you know, the MAGA influencers have turned into a circular firing squad and they're taking their eye off of the midterms in 2028. and it just seems so ironic that, you know, at this critical time, someone like you is, or, you know, the Hebrew Bible is being held up as the thing to take Amat, you know, or kind of the ancient. They're not MAGA influencers, Naomi. I want to tell you, they have all come out. Carrie Baller, Fuentes, Milo, Yanopoulos, all of these folks are now, you know, saying, Trump has betrayed us.

And, you know, all this crazy stuff. So they were never, you know, America first. They were never MAGA. Who knows what they are. But whatever it is, it's coming out right now. And, you know, I think we have to do everything we can. Speak the truth and love and, you know, fight for what is right and true. We just have a minute or so left.

I'm so sorry, I just love talking to you. And I talk too much. But any thoughts, any thoughts? We'll just have to have you back. That's all. Well, I guess thank you. I want to thank you. As an American Jew who loves Jesus Christ, I want to thank you for staying rooted in the text

and not abandoning the incredibly beautiful relationship, which is a scriptural relationship and a sacred relationship between Judaism and Christianity, especially American Christianity, which grew out of, you know, the Hebrew Bible and the Torah and the Ten Commandments and as well as the gospel. So thank you. Well, you're very kind to say that.

And I think this needs to be said that one of the things the devil always does, one of the things liars always do is they pretend that they're more of them than there are. Interesting. And I just want to say most American Christians agree with them. me. They don't have platforms. And so you have voices out there trying to pretend as though, uh, yeah, you know, most serious Christians have big problems with Israel, you know, basically that's not true. Way more people agree with Mike Huckabee and Ted Cruz and Eric Mataxis than, then would agree with them. They just are very loud and shrill and don't care about the

truth. And so again, you know, uh, these things will be sorted out. Yeah. Naomi, I'm I'm so sorry we didn't have more time. No, it's just a blessing. Thanks for coming on. Hi, everyone. If you were injured in an accident, listen up. We have legal professionals standing by to answer your questions. You can find out if you have a case and how much it's potentially worth.

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