The Eric Metaxas Show - #82 - Michael Guillen

Episode Date: March 25, 2026

Today On The Eric Metaxas Show, Eric talks with Dr. Michael Guillen about why science points to God, the mystery of dark matter and dark energy, and his new film The Invisible Everywhere. Later, Eric speaks with Kentucky Senate candidate Nate Morris about working-class roots, entrepreneurship, Mitch McConnell’s departure, and the future of the Republican Party. Subscribe for clips from The Eric Metaxas Show to hear politics and culture from a Christian perspective.

When West Jet first took flight in 1996, the vibes were a bit different. People thought denim on denim was peak fashion, inline skates were everywhere, and two out of three women rocked, the Rachel. While those things stayed in the 90s, one thing that hasn't is that fuzzy feeling you get when WestJet welcomes you on board. Here's to Westjetting since 96. Travel back in time with us and actually travel with us at westjet.com slash 30 years. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. I am really excited right now to talk to my next guest because if you know,

If you know anything about me, I wrote a book called Is Atheism Dead, which is all about science unequivocally pointing to God. It is in some ways one of the greatest revelations of our lifetime that science now points absolutely inescapably to a creator. There's all kinds of levels and things you can discuss about it. But it's the headline of our lives. because all of our lives we've grown up at a time where people say, well, science points away from God

or I don't know if, you know, right? So, but I've been reading books and reading books. So it led me to write my book, is atheism dead, where I do a deep dive. We're turning it into a streaming TV series. So I'm really interested in this. And then I find out that my friend, Dr. Michael Gillen, has produced a film, which we're going to talk about right now.

Dr. Michael Gillen, welcome back. Hey, Eric, it's so good to see you. And yes, absolutely. I'm looking forward to your series, brother. Well, I, you know, to quote Abraham Lincoln, let a thousand flowers bloom. I honestly feel like it's a beautiful thing that there are so many people, including my friend, Dr. Stephen Meyer, of the Discovery Institute, this information, we need to flood the zone and tell everybody in the world science points to God. You don't have to like it, but these are the facts. You've been working in this world for a long time, and I was going to say, I can't even remember the first time I interviewed you, but your background, you know, people should know you were a physics instructor at Harvard before Harvard went down in flames because of a plagiarism scandal.

That had nothing to do with you. I know that. Right. No doubt. You're an Emmy Award winning science editor for ABC News. You've appeared regularly on Good Morning, America. World News Tonight, Nightline, 20. and you've written so many bestselling books on the subject of science and faith.

You, of course, have a PhD from Cornell in physics, astronomy, and mathematics. Which is it? Come on, Michael. Yeah. You know, I went in, actually, just to become an experimental physicist. And then the rest is history, man. My worldview broadened out to include astronomy. And then I realized that my thesis was going to require some really high-level

math. And so actually my thesis committee had faculty members from all three departments. It was a grilling, like a four-hour grilling. So yeah, it's physics, math, and astronomy, baby. Yeah. So one PhD, but in three or four subjects. So it's, look, it's very impressive. You're, you're brainy, but you fool people because you come across like just a normal, happy Christian man, but you're, you are brainy. You haven't fooled me because I've talked to you. I know that behind that, the facade of normalcy, you're a genius. So I want to talk to you about your new film on this subject. So first of all, what's the title and where can people find it?

Okay, real simple. It's called The Invisible Everywhere, Believing is Seen, and it can be seen April 8th on the Invisible Everywhere.com. Simple as that. The Invisible Everywhere can be seen on the invisible everywhere.com starting April 8th. April 8th. It basically, Eric, and you, know me well enough. I mean, we've been friends forever. And I'm so, by the way, just have to say

it as a side, I'm so doggone proud of you. I see you popping up everywhere. And you're carrying the torch and God bless you for that. But, you know, I started out as an atheist. I fell in love with science in the second grade. I, you know, I was born in East LA in the middle of the Mexican Vario. But I fell in love with science in the second grade. And I thought at that time, you know, if I'm going to be a scientist, I should be a real skeptic. And so I lived by the motto, seeing is believing. And the other thing I thought of was, you know, logic is my thing. You know, you got to go through life. If you want to figure out the universe, if you want to figure out your place in the universe, you've got to be logically. You've got to reason your way there, right? So I thought

faith, it's not so much for me. And the whole idea of believing in God, it just really wasn't on my radar. But then by the time I got to grad school, man, I realized I was not only wrong. I was dead wrong on both counts. And we can talk about that if you want, Eric. But that's That's just kind of the setup. So my movie is basically, it's inspired by my bestselling book, Believing a Scene. I mean, it's been on Amazon bestseller for like nearly five years. But it basically tells the story of how science,

science shattered my atheism. It's exactly what you were saying in your intro. I mean, it's like, it's so obvious. If you bother to study the universe as I have my entire life, it's clear that science points towards God, not away from God. And then I realized, you know what? It takes faith even to be a scientist. I mean, I have to have faith in the scientific method, right?

If I'm to be a scientist, if I don't have faith in the scientific method, how can I ever be a scientist? So basically, that's the movie. The other thing about the movie that I'm really excited about, Eric, is that I used AI technology. And I believe I'm the first person to make, we believe, and we've asked the chat box to see if it's right or not. But I believe I'm the first person to make

a full-length motion picture using publicly available AI tools on my desktop computer all by myself. So the visuals are stunning because I want to show people the invisible universe they've never seen before. Not only the universe out there beyond us, but the universe within us that inhabits us. So anyway, that's the movie in a nutshell. I'm really excited April 8th. but the website is the invisible everywhere.com, the invisible everywhere.com, and April 8th is the date that this goes live at the invisible everywhere.com.

So I do want to talk to you about your story a little bit because, again, for me, the headline, you know, I wrote a whole book about it and we're doing our own series about it. It's like most people don't know about this. That's why I get so excited because I think it's one thing like, is true, but if no one knows, what does it matter? And so we've got to tell the world that science

points to God. So what was your story when you said, you know, as a second grader, you know, right away you knew this is what I care about. And you devoted your whole life to it. At what point in that process does the penny drop for you with regard to faith? Well, there were many pennies. But I think the first one, if I think back, I was probably either late middle school, or early high school and I was teaching myself special relativity, not general relativity, but special relativity, I was fascinated because it just opened up a whole new world to me. And the thing that really stood out, where there were a couple of things that stood out to me, but one of them was that there are parts of space time, there are parts of the universe, if you

will, that are just completely inaccessible to us. So I talk about that in the movie. The part of space time that we inhabit is actually a tiny, conical shaped wedge of space time within what's called the light cone. Now, we don't have time to get into all of that. I do in the movie and I show it visually. I mean, it's stunning. But if you can picture this is the whole of space time, this is the whole of the universe, okay? We inhabit just this tiny region wedge, but it's conically shaped wedge shape. The rest of it isn't accessible to us. The light cone and then beyond the light cone, there's something called... I've never heard this,

So I am now completely baffled. And normally I can follow this kind of stuff. So Michael Gillen, help us understand when you say it's conically shaped, what in the world does that mean? In other words, the universe in which we live, I don't think of it as having a shape. It's been expanding for close to 14 billion years from a point. What do you mean a conical shape? What do you mean by this? Okay, so you know, if you go to a shopping mall and there's a map of the shopping mall and then there's an arrow that says you are here.

So think of the map of space time, the whole of space time, right? And Einstein was the first one to open our eyes to this and it opened my eyes as a young man. Maybe he opened your eyes, but go ahead, yeah. But follow me. Okay, so a picture a map like you see at the mall, but the map is not of the mall. It's of the entire space time. Of all of space. Right there, you've lost most people.

Because you're not saying the universe, which is space. No, because what we call the universe, Eric, and this is key. What we call, and I explain, I have graphics in the movie, and it's probably a lot clearer when you see the graphic. But what we call the universe is actually a tiny fraction of the whole of space time. So if you can imagine a space, a space, from zero to infinity, time from zero to infinity, right? That's the map of space time. And Einstein and his special theory of relativity mapped it out.

And when you map it out, there's a region that is, let's start with a cone-shaped region. Okay, the surface, picture a cone-shaped region within this map, okay? That is what we call the light cone. This is where all light from the universe comes from. Think of it as the light bulb of the universe. we inhabit the interior part of that cone. Beyond the cone is an area of space time called the elsewhere, and beyond that is something called beyond the cosmic horizon.

So the first thing that really struck me, the first penny that dropped was, wait a minute, it was like the confusion you had. Wait a minute, I thought when I look up at the stars, I'm seeing everything. No, you're not. No, you're not. You're only seeing this conical-shaped,

region of space time. And on top of that, we can't even see 95% of what's inside the cone. And so that was for me like, wait a minute, but I'm living by the motto seeing as believing. So if I can't see most of what's out there, if I can't see most of what's reality, even according to Albert Einstein, according to modern physics, because it's a pillar of modern physics, then how can I live by that motto seeing as believing? Because otherwise, I can't believe in most of what's out there. So I I had to ditch that motto. And that is, I think, the first penny that dropped for me that I, that was like disorienting. It's like, okay, well, if I don't run by the model speed, how old were you?

Huh? How old were you at this point? I would say late middle school, early high school, because I was teaching. I think your great learning. I think your great learning has made you mad. But we're going to have to continue with this interview. My wife, Laurel says that all the time. So.

I'm a mad guy. I'm mad scientist. All right. So somehow at that point. you realized we have a problem. Yeah, we do. Houston, we have a problem. Well, what you're, I mean, it seems to me what you're, what you were bumping up

against at that young age is that materialism doesn't make sense. No, that if we're, if we're going by just what we see, whatever, that, that even what we see is giving us clues to something beyond what we see and we have to take that seriously. Exactly. And for, and we're not even talking about religion. We're talking about the special theory of relativity is telling us that very, very thing. And then when I, by the time I got to grad school, that's really when not only the penny dropped, man, it was like the silver dollar drop because I remember taking one class in astronomy,

and the professor talked to us about something called the missing mass problem. It dated back to the 1933 when a guy named Fritz Zwicki, he was an Austrian-American astronomer. He was studying something called galaxy clusters. These are just groups of galaxies that spin around like a slow-moving merry ground. And what he found out is that these suckers are spinning a whole lot faster than they should be. And the question is, well, what's driving the extra spin? And we use something called the virial theorem in physics.

I won't get into it. But the virial theorem allows us to calculate how much mass does it require to create a certain amount of spin. So Zwicki used virile theorem to figure out... When you talk about spin, at what point... And you don't have to give me an exact time, But at what point is it best or maximal to put in the fabric softener?

I love you. Am I tracking with you? Am I tracking? I'm sorry. We'll just edit that out. So keep going. Fritz, Zwicki, yep. Yeah.

So when Zwicki did the calculation, lo and behold, he found out, wait a minute, this galaxy cluster that I'm studying, has a lot more mass than I can actually see. In other words, most of this galaxy cluster has something that is invisible that is driving the extra spin. And he called it dark matter, or dunkel materier in German.

And now we realize that most of what's out there, like 95% of what we call the universe, which is just this little tiny part of the space time, 95% of what we call the, observable universe is invisible to us. It's in the form of dark matter and dark energy. And then you ask, well, what is dark matter? What is dark energy? Have we ever seen it? No, it's absolutely invisible. And we have no clue. And I mean, no clue what either dark matter or dark energy is. I don't like alarmism. I don't like fear mongering. I especially don't like people who profit from

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You don't need to panic, but you do need to be informed. In times like these, wisdom matters more than optimism. We just did a Socrates in the city event in Palm Beach with Dr. Hugh Ross. And he spoke briefly. I'm sure you know Dr. Hugh Ross, he spoke briefly about that in the dinner afterward. And I was, I was again lost and I'm lost now because dark matter. I mean, I'm fascinated that, you know, you have this figure in the early 30s. Yeah.

Postulating the existence of something, but with no ability really to see it or to, I mean, it's an extraordinary thing because it does create problems. Yeah, it does. And think about it. I mean, that was 1933. We're 2006, and we're no near to understanding what dark matter is than we were back then. I mean, the big takeaway in Hugh, yeah, he was a good friend of mine, his wife, Kathy, our national treasures. He had me as a visiting scholar at Reasons to Believe years ago, and it was one of the most

wonderful summers I ever spent. I love Hugh and Kathy. But the big takeaway here is you don't need to understand the details. The big takeaway here for you and your viewers is that 95%, okay, listen to this, 95% of what we call the universe is invisible to us. And beyond that, what we call the universe is just a tiny wedge-shaped part of space time. So in other words, the big takeaway here is most of what's out there, most of what's real. And we're not talking religion.

This is science speaking. Most of what's out there is completely invisible to us. We are surrounded by invisible mystery. And so when you look at it from the point of view of a religion, that's completely consistent with what most religions, and in particular Christianity says, that there are realms out there that are invisible to us, but that are controlling the visible part of the world.

Dark matter, dark energy, which is invisible, is controlling the visible part of what we call the universe. That's a fusion. That's right out of Ephesians. When you're talking about dark matter, dark energy, does dark matter and dark energy exist within the... The universe that we can see?

Yeah, no, it permeates everything. In other words, like it's not in another place. No, no, no, no. It's within. It's within. It's within. So when Zwicki was looking at a guy, galaxy cluster. Let's just say, look at one galaxy cluster. This is a grouping of galaxies that are moving very slowly around like a big merry ground. Why is it spinning faster than it should be?

It's because within it, permeated, diffused, within the visible matter is this invisible stuff. We call dark matter. Dark energy is what's creating, it's causing the universe not just to expand, but to accelerate. We knew for since the 1940s, or actually, 1920s when Hubble first found evidence for the universe expanding. We knew it was expanding. But it wasn't until 1998 when a group of three astronomers found out, no, the universe is not just expanding. Somebody's pushing the accelerator. It's actually accelerating faster and faster and fast. So there's a repulsive energy there. And that's what we call dark energy. So between dark energy and dark matter, which is completely invisible to us,

that's 95% of the universe. In other words, another big takeaway, Eric, is what I'm saying to you is everything we know or believe we know, everything we believe in science, all our theories, all our theorizing, is based on just 5% of the observable universe, which is just a tiny wedge-shaped part

of the whole of space time. And that was really mind-blowing for me as a young man. And that's why I took off on a spiritual journey because I realized, you know what, science is actually flying blind. It's not going to answer my deep questions. And that's when I went through Hinduism, Buddhism, all of it, Islam, Judaism, Transcendental Meditation. And then I finally, finally, after decades, landed on Christianity.

Unbelievable. I was going to say, I know we're not going to have time. I'm dying to find out what you think about Bigfoot or Sasquatch. But I know we don't have time to get into that about, you know, where they are, where they live. It's actually, you know, we joke, I joke, but it is interesting when you bring up what you just said. It just opens up a whole world of mystery, as you said at the beginning of this interview. It's so huge.

The mystery is so vast that it does challenge us to say God is so far beyond us that it's, I often say it's like when you really think of the scope of. of who God is and what he's created, the proper response is to get a heart attack. It's just beyond our ability to even to scratch the surface. Although, of course, we try, and some of us like you get farther than ever. The film is The Invisible Everywhere. Tell my audience what is in the film.

If they go to The Invisible Everywhere.com on April 8th or after, the invisible everywhere.com. What do you mean by that? Okay, so if you go there, there will be a box office, and you can either rent or you can purchase, or there's something called the Founders Edition, which allows you to own the movie,

plus a bunch of bonus features, because while I was making this movie, and it was a grueling process, I filmed a couple of diaries, so I'll include that. And then when we thought we were going to make this movie in a conventional way, because, you know, I've made a movie before,

and you've made a movie before. I mean, you know. And it's like painting by the numbers. It's a traditional process. And when we thought about making Invisible Everywhere, initially, we thought, all right, let's just rinse and repeat. Let's do what we did before. So I have a whole PowerPoint with all the concept art that we had from a very high-end company

in Hollywood called Aaron Sims. So I'll include that in the bonus. So that's what they'll see. So they'll pick either rent for 48 hours, purchase or do the Founders Edition, just like you would any other box office. And once you make your choice, you're sent to a full screen of the movie and you just sit there and watch it. It's 80 minutes long. It's full length. It's, I have to say, and I'm not patting myself on the back, but I had to figure out how do I make the invisible universe within us and beyond us come to the screen? How do I show that to my viewers? And so the AI is just stunning. The visuals are stunning. I put my heart and soul. The music is great. Everything. It's a full experience.

And that's what they're going to see when they go to the invisible everywhere.com. It's direct to the consumer. And wherever you are in the world, so it's a worldwide premiere because people who follow me like they follow you, they're all over the world. South Africa, Australia, Bulgaria, UK, Ireland, you name it. So it's great. It's one destination, April 8th, the invisible everywhere.com, wherever you are, whoever you are, whatever you are, whatever you believe or don't believe, it'll be there for you.

Well, so you, I feel like we've achieved it. We're at a tipping point. And this is what I keep saying with this narrative, right? That in our lifetimes, there's been this hostility for well over 100 years in the world of science toward faith. I mean, and I write about this in my book is atheism dead, that even Einstein, now it's hard for us to imagine that 100 and 10 years ago. That long ago, there was a deep hostility, a material. materialist bent, to put it mildly, in the scientific community, so that when Einstein discovers that it looks like the universe is expanding where he goes, that's going to be bad for my career.

I better sweep that under the carpet. I'll create this cosmological constant, and we just won't talk about that. Einstein was insecure because the scientific community was so hostile to the even leaning toward the possibility of faith or of a world beyond this world. And we are suddenly now at a point where Einstein, anybody else, like, listen, the facts are so stacked up, you better give it up. Just give it up and try to figure out what science is saying about God. And you've tackled a part that I've never gone near. And that's why I'm excited about this because I feel like there's so many things coming out.

I mentioned our friend Stephen Meyer. He's written a book, The God Hypothesis. They've created a film. We're creating this TV series. But I never mention dark matter or dark energy. And you're dealing with this. And to me, this is the most heady piece of it to comprehend, you know, the nature of the universe, not on a granular level, on this kind of epic scale. Now, could you even try in 30 seconds or 60 seconds to explain to me and my audience?

audience, what is dark matter? What is dark energy? Is there any way to, I mean, I'm sure in the film you do that, but just to give us some taste of what it is we're even talking about. What is this stuff that is everywhere that we know it's there, but we can't see it and we can't, you know, but we know it's there. Where are my gloves? Come on, heat.

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Like packing a spare stick. I like to be prepared. That's why I remember, 9-88 Canada's Suicide Crisis Helpline. It's good to know just in case. Anyone can call or text for free confidential support from a train responder anytime. 9-88 suicide crisis helpline is funded by the government in Canada. Yeah, there are a lot of theories about what dark matter is. One of them is called WIMPS, WIMPS, and it stands for weekly interacting massive particles.

So whatever dark matter is, it's clearly a form of matter that, number one, interacts with the universe through gravity. So it's a gravity. It's got some kind of mass because it's influencing the spin of these galaxy clusters, right? Excuse me. That's one thing we know because when we calculate the mass of the inverse, we go, well, it's way bigger than what we can see. So that's one clue. It's a big clue because it's something that's operating gravitationally. It's something that's influencing the universe gravitationally, not electromagnetically or any other way.

And so that's a big clue. But for some reason, and this is the big stumbling block for us, is that it doesn't either radiate light, nor does it reflect light. In other words, it's not interacting with us electromagnetically the way normal matter does. Normal matter is not only influences gravitationally, but when you look at a star, think about it. You're looking at the light coming from that star. So that star not only has gravity, mass that has gravity, but it also has mass that is either luminous in some ways or it's in the case of the moon, it's reflecting a luminous source. So light is on the electromagnetic spectrum.

Yeah, exactly, or even beyond. I mean, you know that. I barely know that. Most people aren't thinking about that. So light is on the electromagnetic spectrum. Yeah. So you're saying that whatever this dark energy or dark matter is, it exists. in the gravitational world, not in the electromagnetic world.

And so that's a clue. Exactly. And that's what's puzzling to us because all the forms of matter we've ever studied either reflect light or radiate light somehow or another, right? And so this is a beast of a different color. And Wimps is just one of the theories. But whatever it is, it's a new form of matter. It's literally a new form of matter and we're completely in the dark about it. Now, look at dark energy. That's a different thing. dark again dark energy like dark matter influences the universe through gravity so it's some again some kind of gravitational agent that's invisible but but but but there's a big caveat because as

you know gravity as we know it attracts it pulls things into it right well dark energy is the opposite it's anti-gravitational it's repulsive it's actually blowing the universe up it's it's it's it's causing the acceleration of the expansion of the universe. So even though it's gravitational in nature, it's invisible. Again, it doesn't interact on the electromagnetic spectrum. It doesn't either reflect light or radiate light. But on top of all that, it's flipped gravity on its head. So it's actually acting as an anti-gravitational influence on the universe. Both of these things are baffling to us. And there's nothing within what we call the standard, well, either the standard cosmological model or even the standard elementary particle model where, you know, we study the tiniest things of the universe,

there's nothing in either of those big theories or even general relativity or special relativity that accommodate can accommodate these things. These are absolutely outliers. So not only do they account, not only does dark matter and dark energy account for 95% of what we call the universe, but we have zero clue. I mean, and when I say zero clue, that's not hyperbole. We have zero. We have zero clue about what they are. So when you say we're living, swimming, immersed in a deep mystery, yeah. And I think, Eric, just to put a point on this is I think that's an advantage I had when I started out as a scientist and an atheist, is that I got so accustomed to science asking me to believe in these outrageous things, these things that I cannot see, cannot comprehend with reason

and logic alone, that by the time I got to the point where I'm reading the Bible, many decades later, I'm like, yeah, okay, there's a God. There are angels and there are demons. Yeah, of course. It's like nothing once you grow in a custom of believing in dark matter, dark energy, black holes, virtual particles, quantum, quantum duality, quantum entanglement, quantum, all. I mean, it was just like, yeah, so what? Yeah, God, that's not weird. Of course, we're at a time. I really hope to push you on the question of, of Susque, watching also Fabric Sockler, and you dodged them brilliantly, and we're going to have to have you back to discuss this another time. There's so much that we've only scratched the service. Michael Gillen,

God bless you. The film is the invisible everywhere.com. Folks, check this out. You know I'm going to check this out. The invisible everywhere.com. And we'll have you back, Michael, to talk more. The invisible everywhere.com, April 8th. God bless you, my friend. Thank you. God bless you. Keep up the good work, Eric. I love you, brother. It's finally here, our second annual mega sale. This sale only comes around once a year, so take advantage of the best offers ever while you can. For example, save 50% on our Giza Dream Bed Sheets as low as 2998. And for the first time ever on TV, My Pillo Mattresses and My Pillow Mattress Stoppers is low as 9999.98.

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In case you want to know who I think would be the best senator from the great state of Kentucky, well, I just happen to have him as my guest right now. His name is Nate Morris. I had the privilege of meeting him recently here in New York City. He is endorsed by my friend, the late great Charlie Kirk, and a number of other great Patriots. I had the privilege of hearing him speak. Nate Morris, welcome to this program. Thank you, Eric. It's great to be with you and great to see you again. Well, it's good to see you, and I was so glad to be introduced to you at that event here at the Metropolitan Club in New York City

a few weeks ago because I didn't know you. I mean, if somebody like Charlie Kirk says, this is the guy, I'm all in. But to hear you talk and to see you be able to kind of talk about the issues and just in the way that you did, it just made me very happy. So I wanted to introduce you to my audience. Now, to be clear, Mitch McConnell, and we can put the hissing in in post, Mitch McConnell is leaving the Senate after, I believe, 540 years he has served this nation. It's extraordinary to think. And he's just as chipper and young as ever. But we now have to replace him. And so there's a few people out there. And Nate Morris, I want my audience to know your story and why you think you should be the next senator. I already know why I think you should.

But talk to my audience about this, because I know that it's May is the primary. Yeah, thank you, Eric. It's May 19th. And this is a historic seat. This is one of the longest serving members of the U.S. Senate, longest serving leader. And I believe that this seat is so important because it's going to determine so much about what the future of the Republican Party looks like. This is Donald Trump's Republican Party, and we need someone in this seat that's going to vote with the president and remember that when they go to Washington. But, Eric, I think I shared this with you. I'm proud that I'm a ninth generation, Kentucky. I was raised. When you said that, I mean, I was, you know, I was sitting and I thought, wow, not a lot of

people can say anything along those lines in the United States of America. Everybody came here 10 minutes ago, My parents came here in the 1950s for you to say that you're a ninth generation Kentucky. And that is, I mean, I can't do the math in my head. But when can you trace your family to in Kentucky? Right at the very beginning when Kentucky was just getting started. And I'm very proud that my family's from Morgan County, which is right in the heart of Appalachia. And these are folks that love this country that would fight to the death to protect it. And these are great patriots and great Americans that come from from the mountains.

And it's that same mountain DNA that I want to take to Washington to fight for our country and to fight for Kentucky. Is Morgan County after Daniel Morgan or maybe you don't even know that? I don't know. I was going to say, I'm trying to think where he's from. Maybe he's from Virginia. Never mind. But that really is an amazing pedigree. And again, you know, in America, we're not about pedigrees.

But that's, in this case, I think we are a little bit because you come from working class people, people who know what it is to work for a living. And tell us a little bit about your story because I was fascinated about your own biography of growing up and what you did, you know, as a younger man. Talk about that. Well, I was raised by a single mom. So my dad left when I was very young. And it was the two of us. And like many single mothers, my mother struggled financially. She worked several jobs to support me.

We run food stamps. But I was fortunate that I had grandparents that stepped in and were very helpful in my upbringing while my mother worked. I had a granddad that was a local labor leader. 19 of my family members worked in an auto plan in Kentucky building cars and trucks. Excuse me, that's another one of those things when you said it. It's like the nine generations. I said 19 members of your family worked in that company. That's, you know, that kind of gives us a picture of that community.

We don't have so many communities like that anymore. But there were towns like that, you know, even across Europe when I think of, you know, Welsh coal mining villages where everybody works in that industry. That's exactly right. I grew up with the perspective and the worldview of the American worker, what that was like. And I talk about this a lot. my family would work double shifts, time and a half, would try to work as much as they could to save for the future to get opportunity.

They'd come home with grease on their hands, bone tired, but that was the American way. And that's how we experienced this country and live the American dream. And this is what gave me the opportunity to do things that I ultimately did as an entrepreneur and run for the United States Senate. Are you going to talk about garbage on this show? of course Eric we would this wouldn't be a great interview if we didn't get to garbage but I tell you one of the things I think you'll appreciate this my mother used to tell me this all the time she said you know we may not have a lot of money but thinking big is free and that's one of the things that stuck with me my entire life

I'd always think about that and I had the opportunity to go to some great schools on scholarships and working my way through and when I got finished with my education I became an entrepreneur and a lot of people say, you know, why did you become an entrepreneur? And usually there's, you know, there's some inspirational story or they got inspired to do this or do that. For me, my inspiration was I was broke, Eric, and I want to get out of my situation. I want to build something. And I saw the industry of waste management. This is a very tough industry, as you know. I think some of the toughest people in the world. How would I know? Except that you're the expert. And you, you know, I heard you give your talk on it the other day. But before you get to that, you, you know, you grow up.

in this rural Appalachia, single mom struggling, but you did go to some great schools. What schools did you go to and what did you study at those schools? You know, I had the opportunity to get a scholarship to go to George Washington University, our nation's capital. I worked most of the time that I was going to school. Got a great education there. I did my graduate work at Princeton University, the School of Public and International Affairs there, and ended up finishing up my business degree at Oxford University across the pond and got a great perspective and gave me a great view of, you know, the ivory tower, what works and what doesn't. But I think, you know,

one of the things I share a lot, I got a world-class education, but I learned more from my grandparents that grew up on a farm and had very little formal education. They taught me more about the world and how to fight, how to build things, good common sense, and how to be a great sense. And how to be a great citizen. And I think that's something that you can't put a price tag on. I think, I mean, part of the reason I resonated with you when you talked that day and now again is that I have a similar story. You know, I grew up raised by working class European immigrants and then I go off to Yale University. And so I got a taste to that. And there is no doubt in my mind that the people that raised me, I learned an infinite amount more from them. In fact, not just more, but but when

you go to these elite institutions, you know, you're, you're drinking some, some bad Kool-Aid. It's really, really, you know, typically culturally Marxist or whatever, you know, maybe what you were studying, you didn't get as hit by it. But, you know, then when you leave that world and you kind of think, okay, what am I going to do with my life? It's only by the grace of God, in my case, that, you know, I went back to the values that I'd been raised with because, you know, most of the people that, you know, go to places like Princeton and Oxford, Yale, whatever, they don't. They kind of drift off in another direction. So it's, it's very heartening to me that you come back. You're an entrepreneur. And that's when you, I want to hear your story about

going into the garbage. How did you even, how did you, how did you start there? How did you think there's a business opportunity there? Because you certainly took advantage of that in a great way. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this was at the height of the, a great recession at 2008. Not sure what I was going to do. You know, there weren't a lot of opportunities for people coming out of graduate school. And waste was one of those issues that regardless of what the economy was doing, waste has got to move. It's a recession-proof industry. And that got me excited.

I was fortunate enough to grow up with someone who'd been in the business. So that's what led us to start a company. And we took about $10,000 on a credit card and got a working pilot that we were able to raise money from and ended up growing that business to all 50 states and 20 countries and $700 million of revenue. So garbage is, I mean, that right there is amazing. All 50 states, this is not some local thing. Holy cow. Garbage has been very good to me, Eric. So only in America can you make money picking up garbage. I mean, there's nothing more American than that. I tell people that all the time. That's how much opportunity there is in this country. But it reminds me, though, you know,

it's like Donald Trump. If you want to be a builder in New York City or if you want to be in the garbage industry, waste management, whatever that is, you're going to have to deal with some nasty people, some bad people, some organized crime. To be able to deal with that, you know, that'll make a man of you or it'll defeat you. And so to me, that's an extraordinary part of your resume that in the rough and tumble world that you were in, you were able to succeed. That says a lot about common sense, I would say, and courage.

Well, thank you. And one of the things that people don't know about our industry, Eric, is that Bill Gates is the biggest garbage man in the world. Many people don't know this. He owns more garbage stock than anyone. So when you're an insurgent in a space like waste management, you're competing against Bill Gates' money, his lawyers. And these are...

These are some of the biggest checkbooks in the world that you're taking on. Very, very powerful companies. But I'm very proud that we took so many big accounts away from the entrenched incumbents, you know, from Walmart to Dollar General to Apple. We've managed all of Apple's waste worldwide. So, you know, it teaches you a lot to fight through the inertia, the bureaucracy of any industry. But also, when you're an insurgent, you've got to be very nimble. You've got to be quick.

You've got to think on your feet. You've got to be able to have the courage to take on these big outfits that have been running the industry for decades. And I think those are the tools and the experiences that I want to take to Washington to fight the machine that's up there. And these are things that I think are going to make me an effective senator that I'm not afraid to take on the establishment. I'm not afraid to take on the biggest money in the world because that's what the country needs. and that's what's going to allow us for this country to thrive and to save the country ultimately from so much of what we saw under Joe Biden. At MedCan, we know that life's greatest moments are built on a foundation of good health,

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We'd love to talk. Business. Well, and I forgot to mention the name of your company. It's Rubicon. Great name, by the way. And also the fact that you're a Lexington native. I learned, I just finished writing a book on the American Revolution and that when after Lexington and Concord happened, the word went all through the colonies.

And it took a long time to get the thousand miles. miles to that part of Kentucky where there was a bunch of people. And the moment they heard the news, they said, we're naming this place, Lexington. And that to me, when I heard that story, I thought that is a crazy story that in 1775, it might have even been 1776 by the time the word got down to these folks, but they said, we're going to name this place Lexington. So that's where you're from. What we look forward to hearing more from you, Nate Morris, I assume, that's a good website of people want to find you, Nate Morris.com.

Absolutely. Please come to my website, Nate Morris.com, make a contribution, be part of this movement. We're taking on 40 years of incumbency and like President Trump said, we need to rid Kentucky

the stench of Mitch once and for all. Oh my gosh. I'm glad you said that, folks. I may have been wrong about the 542 years, but it's close. It's close. And wouldn't that be a wonderful thing?

Nate, we believe you're the man to do that. God bless you. I look forward to hearing more from you. Thank you so much. Great to be with you all. Hi, everyone. If you were injured in an accident, listen up. We have legal professionals standing by to answer your questions.

You can find out if you have a case and how much it's potentially worth. I'm Gina Bellich, along with Super Bowl champ and two-time pro bowler Vernon Davis. So Vernon, tell everyone watching who should call right now. Well, Gina, if you are someone you know were injured in an accident that was not your fault, Give us a call right now. You can find out if you have a case and how much money is potentially worth. Thanks, Vernon. You know, the phones have really been busy.

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