The Eric Metaxas Show - #87 - James Talarico

Episode Date: April 1, 2026

Today On The Eric Metaxas Show, Eric talks with Megan Basham about James Talarico, the left’s effort to rebrand itself as the real Christianity, abortion, gender ideology, David French, Christianity Today, and why false teaching in politics is confusing too many believers. Subscribe for clips from The Eric Metaxas Show to hear politics and culture from a Christian perspective.

Ladies and a gentle to people, as somebody on a Bugs Bunny once said, I now have the joy on this program today of speaking with our friend Megan Basham, who's right here. Hello, Megan. Hey, good to be here. Always good to be here. It's always good to talk to you. It's encouraging to me today. We can talk about anything, but maybe we should deal with the particular lunacy. and that's putting it as positively as I can of James Tala Rico. So folks who are listening who don't even know who that is. Can you tell my audience who this fake Christian James Telerico is? Yeah. So, you know, as I've been covering a lot of the cultural aspects of politics over at the Daily Wire,

one of the things I've noticed as we're shifting to the new, you know, midterms election is that in 2024, Christian nationalism was the big scare, right? I mean, everyone's terrified of Christians living out their faith and actually feeling like they have to be salt and light in the world and live out that commandment. So, you know, the left had been strongly attacking Christians doing that because for obvious reasons, they don't want the salt and the light. And so what I have seen probably over the last year around Tala Rico is a little bit of a shift. They're still hitting Christian nationalism. And he, in particular, as the Texas Senate candidate for the Democratic Party, is a little bit of a shift. hitting that a lot. But they're also now trying to say that actually we're the real Christians,

though. So instead of taking a hostile stance to Christianity, they're trying to say, you have been sold a fake Christianity and we're the real Christianity. And what the real Christianity contains, according to the left and James Telerico, is ideas like God is non-binary. That Mary offered consent to the Lord. And if she hadn't done that, God would have been okay with her aborting our savior. So he's pro abortion. He's pro-trane. Actually, now, let's, we got to take one time here, because this is so, I know, I have not, I don't think I've commented on this, on X or anything, but let's just, let's just start. Okay, first of all, what you said about the left, really wanting to co-op Christianity. They don't, they don't openly say, we worship Satan and we hate

your savior. No, they pretend to be more Christian. So Hillary Clinton did this. Ladies and gentlemen, we're not joking. Hillary Clinton did this in attacking Ali Beth Stuckey in the Atlantic, I don't know, a month or so ago, whatever it was. It's that crazy. And there are people dumb enough. Most of them probably watch CNN or MS now who believe this. Okay. And so in this inversion of Christian faith, they'll they'll say anything okay so talarico was on some podcast and this needs to be set up carefully because there's something diabolical ladies and gentlemen right where you're going to try to confuse people it's not really clear what you're saying so what he said and me i'll let you describe it forgive me if i interrupt but this is so it's so key how he put it because a lot

people were confused by it and that was his intention. Right. So the way he has put it is that, okay, if you actually look at the scriptures, Jesus doesn't say anything about abortion, but we have the story of the angel coming to the Lord and telling Mary, you will become with child. And Tala Rico's really twisted way of framing that story is to say that God was asking for Mary's consent and that if Mary had said, no, and don't let it be. be done to me, then she could have had the option then to have an abortion. Now, actually, see, that's not how I read it. This is to me where I find a diabolical character of this, right?

We all know that the angel, that God is not going to force Mary. So an angel appears and says basically, you know, are you willing to do this? And of course, Mary being Mary says yes. So that is about conception. It's not about, oh, there's a baby in your womb. Do you want to murder it or not? We don't really have an opinion. What do you think, Mary?

We're not talking about a baby in the womb. There's no baby in the womb. There is nothing in the womb. There's some eggs that have not been fertilized. And so God, through the angel, is asking Mary, would you be willing to conceive? And that is the question. So Talariko twists it and acts somehow like God is asking, you know, do you want this baby to live or die?

There is no baby. This is before there's a baby. So this kind of brings up the issue of, you know, how we get pregnant. And how we get pregnant involves something where you can say, yes, I want to engage in that act or no, I don't. But he doesn't go there. He just kind of smears it over so that,

to confuse people as though there's a baby and the angel is asking Mary, okay, do you want to kill the baby? What do you think? I mean, that's basically how I read it. Maybe you have to do it. Right, right. Yes. But I mean, there's also just the lunacy of thinking that the God of the universe was like on Tenterhooks going, I wonder what she's going to say. Is she going to say yes? Come on. Right. So, I mean, there's a level of disrespect there. But as you look at James Tala Rico's theology. It's not just that he has abhorrent political views. He's literally out on the campaign trail pretending that he is teaching theology, teaching doctrine to the masses. And it includes things like, you know, there are many ways to heaven that there are all of these, you know,

truth traditions. He said on the Ezra Klein show that he respects all religions of love because they're all leading to the same place. Because Ezra Klein asked him, do you believe that Jesus is the only way to heaven. And Tala Rico's answer was, well, I believe all religions of love lead us to that same true. Religions of love? That's called a neologism, ladies and gentlemen. Does anybody ever heard religions of love?

I think he who, maybe somebody in a Soros think tank came up with that. Like, what does that mean? Religions of love. Right. And that would be very likely because he does get a lot of funding from that direction. But what has been interesting to me is. and we talk about this a lot and I'm about to bring up some of the usual suspects, but the way his candidacy is being propped up and hailed by those who today, to this day, claim to be

conservative Christians at Christianity Today, The Holy Post, and David French at the New York Times. So what I have been watching is what seems like if it's not formally coordinated, they at least talk a lot so that they're all on the same page and how they are trying to to sell the Tala RICO candidacy to their Christian audiences, who frankly, unfortunately, a lot of them do still include real trusting Christians who don't understand the bill of goods that they're being sold. So, you know, I kind of watched this unfold and I went, I don't know if it's coordinated, but certainly they're all on the same talking points. So if you go back to January, Christianity today put out a podcast episode talking about the candidacy of the

rank heretic. Of course, they didn't call him a rank heretic. Instead, instead, what we heard from Mike Crosseller, and Bonnie Christian at Christianity Today was that James Tolariko is presenting a refreshing face of Christianity that is much more recognizably Christian than what they have seen from Maga. So this was, at no point in that podcast, did they mention that Talarico had. heretical views. He doesn't believe that Jesus is the only way to heaven. They didn't mention his stance on the trans issue that he believes God is non-binary. They, first of all that, like, that's hilariously stupid. That's so stupid. I mean, I want to talk about that more than anything. What a dopey, dopey thing to say that most average Americans would just laugh at that.

What does that even mean? When Jesus was on earth, I believe he, He was pretty much a man and, you know, not whatever. And when he referred to his father in heaven, that wasn't, you know, a figure of speech only. I mean, he could have said anything, but he said, Abba, father. I mean, again, you know, we can have all kinds of conversations about this. But for somebody to just boldly state that God is non-binary, I don't even think God acknowledges the concept of non-binary. Like non-binary is a made-up lunatic term, but it's out there enough. And he feels somehow the freedom to throw this out there.

I guess what is that, a political calculation, I assume? Yeah, I mean, I think it's a way of trying to baptize evil ideology on the left as some sort of form of Christianity is what I think it is. I think it's a way of saying, hey, we can be Christians too, even if we're going to reject everything that God says about male and female, he may. them. You knew me in my mother's womb. I am the way the truth in the life. No man comes to the father but through me. So these are the things that Tala Rico has expressly denied out on the campaign trail. And yet you have a Christianity Today podcast doesn't mention any of those things. It just mentions that actually that's not true. It did mention the thing about there are many ways that these are religions of love and they all get to the same truth. They didn't call it

Eric, what they did was they said that it was just sort of a weak answer. Like they thought he just, he didn't give the best answer to that. That was how that was framed. And so then you flash forward this month, David French then put out an essay in the New York Times where just like Christianity today, he said that this is a decent and Christian witness for the public, a refreshingly decent Christian witness that all of these MAGA Christians, as he puts it, would look at Tala Rico's example and feel shamed by how Christian this man is. I just think Tala RICO should get a wedgy in the public square. But, you know, they don't do that.

They don't do that anymore. That's Maga Christianity. We'll be right back talking to Megan Basham. Patriots have been left behind. Today, I want to tell you about metaxis crypto.com. They're bringing access to cryptocurrency wealth to real Americans. crypto is supercharging President Trump's America First Economic Miracle, and now you can be a part of it. I've partnered with Block Trust IRA because their mission perfectly aligns with President Trump's Make America Great Again agenda,

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Why not you next? Welcome back. We're talking to Megan Basham. Yes, ladies and gentlemen. I have Megan Basham as my guest today. So Megan, you know, you just brought up the uncomfortable topic of the person of David French. It's like he was made up. Like he's a fictional character because he's become so preposterous.

I mean, I remember as a favor of, um, to a friend, I kind of debated David French for my friend Gabe Lyons. He goes, well, you have a conversation with, and this was back in 2020. And I gave David French the benefit of the doubt. I thought, oh, you know, he's my brother in Christ and we'll have a conversation. But even then, I just thought he's crackers. He's imagining that Biden isn't going to try to destroy the country or that Biden, isn't a, you know, a corpse animated by dark Marxist forces who are, who are just going to

manipulate this dopey, dottering figure who just wants to be president and kind of pretending like, you know, there's evil doesn't exist. And the only thing we can really know is that Trump is evil and we have to defeat Trump. And I, I'm just fascinated by how these people can still find audiences who will take them at their word that they are somehow conservative or somehow Christian. I mean, at what point does that become meaningless? Right. And a part of what has been so insidious about what seems to be, like I said, if it's not coordinated, they're at least all on the same page and their talking points, is that they are all treating. So Christianity Today, Holy Post, Phil Bissure, Veggie Tales, David French, they are treating Tallore.

as a Christian brother, when everything about his beliefs should compel us to loudly say, regardless of whether you like Donald Trump or not, we should be compelled as Christians to say, this is not a Christian man, nothing about his doctrine demonstrates that this is someone I can credibly call a brother, and they're not doing that. Instead, they are very much trying to not just sell him as a Christian, but sell him as a better Christian than your average ordinary, evangelical, who voted for Donald Trump. So I think those are really key things because they repeatedly said

he is so much more Christian than what we see coming out of MAGA. And the really dangerous thing I think we're seeing from Tala Rico is that when the Holy Post talked about it, they then put out this post saying he believes the Nicene Creed.

They basically said, all you need to be a Christian is to affirm the Nicene Creed. Well, Satan could affirm the Nicene Creed. That's not the issue. The issue is, do you have obedience to Christ? Do you have fruit in keeping with repentance? And of course, we see none of these things from Tala Rico,

but that's the sleight of hand that we're seeing from, you know, these organizations who I believe and these figures are there to sort of launder, left-wing, and Democratic talking points as somehow Christian. And it matters, Eric, because right now, Tala RICO is polling one point ahead of Cornyn, if he ends up being the Republican candidate, and two points ahead of, of Ken Paxton, if he ends up being the Republican candidate.

So right now, I would say that this persona, and I believe it's a false persona, that James Tala Rico is presenting, does appear to be fooling and confusing some conservative Christians in Texas who must be willing to vote for him because that's a stronghold. That's an evangelical red state stronghold.

So if Tala RICO is polling even neck and neck right now, that means you've got some voters out there who are believing this act. and when they see people like Christianity today or David French or the Holy Post saying, hey, this is a strong Christian and I may have some different beliefs than him and that's okay, but you should still vote for him. I mean, that message is coming across and I don't feel that it's being combated strongly enough by conservative Christians who need to point out not just that he's a bad candidate.

He's not a Christian. Well, listen, you say conservative Christians. David French, I mean, it gets to a point where I'm not even willing to say they're Christians. Because if there is no fruit, you know, just this morning, my wife and I in our devotional together, we're reading in Luke where it's John the Baptist is saying, you brewed of vipers. These are the most religious people of the time. You brewed of vipers. You know, I don't see a fruit bearing with reprimed.

repentance. This idea, and again, this is this crummy evangelical idea that, oh, it's, it's, you're saved by faith, which really means you're saved by your theology, which may, no, no, God is not fooled by your fake theology, by your checking off, I believe in this and this and this. He sees your fruit. And so the idea that we're willing to say like, you know, oh, these people, they're Christians, but I don't even know why we have to accept the idea that they're Christians. If you are behind slavery, or behind any kind of wickedness or corruption or Marxism. I don't know how I can see you as a Christian. It becomes meaningless at that point. We're talking to Megan Basham. We'll be right back. Hey there, folks. I've been saying that 2026 must be the year of accountability.

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It becomes so silly that we haven't really had this problem in the evangelical world so much. But these are just leftist lunatics who claim to be Christians. Whether you're talking about David French or Russell Moore, I look at what they are for and they're against. And, you know, I don't know what to think. But this idea that, well, their theology, they believe in Jesus' Lord. To me, it really has become completely meaningless. I mean, I even said this in 2012 at the National Prayer Breakfast when I was speaking.

speaking, it's like a game we play. Like we say, well, so-and-so has this theology and that theology. We're supposed to know them by their fruits. And I don't know why I have to go along with this anymore than why do Catholics go along with either. Well, Joe Biden is a Catholic and Nancy Pelosi is a Catholic. Really? How?

Somebody explain to me, please, how you can be pro-abortion and be damnably corrupt and say you are. Catholic and why isn't the Catholic leadership denouncing them more forcefully? And Catholic leadership doesn't often case in many cases. And I feel the same way in the evangelical world. Like it just becomes silly. David French has become a tool of the left. He supported Kamala Harris, who would have happily destroyed the nation. And I don't, I just, to me, it just becomes silly. Yeah. And I mean, look, I think theology is really important. I think it's important to get your theology, right? But I think what you're showing is that they're pretending like things like

when does life begin or what is the nature of female and male are not theological issues and they are. And so, you know, that's so much of what we're seeing with James Telerico is reframing these things that are clearly theological, moral issues into something political. And, you know, that's to be expected. You know, in some degree, we've seen this before from the left, right? You can go all the way back to Jimmy Carter and go, okay, you know, he pitched himself as, you know, I am more Christian than the conservative Christians than the moral majority at that time. And, you know, he, I personally am, you know, pro-life and would defend those positions of his party, though, as just simply being political disagreements. But I think it was, it was more possible, you know, back in the 70s for

Jimmy Carter to do that than it is today because the Democratic Party of today is not what it was in the 1970s. So it has now taken such morally abhorrent positions that you can in no way reconcile them with the God of the Bible or with Scripture. And so I think that is the problem. And so, you know, when you have a David French or Russell Moore openly saying that James Tolariko is someone we disagree with. So they would say that. They would say, I am pro-life. I just disagree with him. But the important point to me is they are still acknowledging him or recognizing him as a Christian. brother in a way that I think scripture commands us not to do that. We are told that we should not even eat with someone who is, you know, espousing views that are in direct opposition to

scripture and treat them like a brother. And that's what they're doing. And when you say that's what they're doing, you mean Telerico, but then I would say David French, Russell Moore. It just becomes silly. You know, and listen, I genuinely wish everyone. well. I genuinely hope that I see all these folks in heaven, but it becomes so confusing that they just seem to me Trump hating unhinged leftists, basically, who are somehow pretending to be Christian or have deluded themselves into thinking that the most Christian thing you can do is hate Donald Trump and work against him. But, you know, it's gotten bad. I mean, it's gotten really bad. And I guess I would put a lot of folks in this category, Mike Pence or or George W. Bush,

I mean, it all becomes kind of meaningless that, I mean, Mike Pence did not endorse Trump in the last election. So he would have clearly been fine with Kamala Harris destroying America or maybe he's so ignorant that he didn't think she would destroy America. I don't know what it is, but I don't know how I can take him seriously on any level. Yeah. And I think that is what we're going to have to start wrestling with in our Christian politics is that none of us want to say that somebody like a Mike Pence, okay, look, he is wrong now. He is outside of what should be sound Christian political thought. Now, you know, I believe and I am sure that if he sat down and said, here are my beliefs, I would primarily agree with them in terms of, you know, where we fall doctrinally on issues like

abortion or the trans issue or homosexuality. But if you say that and you're willing to see those kinds of destructive ideas take hold in our nation just because you don't like one particular guy, then at the very least, I have to question, okay, is your discernment off? And then you take it one step further to a David French or Russell Moore, who will openly say, this is a Christian, even though he has these anti-Christian beliefs and calls God non-binary and says you can get to heaven any way. At that point, it's hard not to question where they are in terms of their salvation because that's a level of blindness that's really hard to reconcile. We're at a time in this segment.

Folks, we'll be right back talking to Megan Basham. For the first time ever, we're bringing you My Pillow mattresses and mattress hoppers for as low as 9998. Remember, sleep's all about temperature and pressure points. Whatever sleep needs you have, we have the right technology for you. Like our MyPillow mattress topper, our queen size has over 10,000 individual comfort supports to help relieve your pressure points. And how about our 3-inch hybrid plus mattress topper? It's infused with copper and silver to help your body get the restorative sleep it needs.

And our MyPill and Case Coil mattresses, I personally helped develop these mattresses to make sure they have everything needed to give us great sleep. Plus, they're made right here in the USA, and they ship right to your front door absolutely free. So go to Mypillow.com or call the number on your screen. Use this promo code to get MyPillow mattresses and toppers for as low as 9998 and free shipping. Welcome back. I'm talking to Megan Basham. And, okay, Megan, I cut you off the end, but I, see, this is to me, I've thought about this a lot in the last few years, how we're straining at Nats

by talking about well Mike Pence would agree with me theologically and I feel like we're forgetting when Jesus says you'll know them by their fruits in other words first of all you and I do not have to affirm

whether Mike Pence in this case is a Christian or not we can simply say we don't know we hope he is we think he's a nice guy he is but there are certain actions that people take And I think that we have all been fooled into thinking that there's going to be a theological quiz when we get to the pearly gates.

And I mean, a lot of these pastors that you and I have spoken about, that they would say, well, we preach the Bible at our church. And I would say, no, you don't preach the Bible at your church. The Bible, you would be preaching about courage. You would be telling people to stand against evil. That's what the Bible says. they act like, no, no, no, we just, we just preach the Bible as though you don't have to preach

moral courage, as though you don't have to preach that you're going to pay a price if you take this stand, or you may be beheaded by Islamists, or you may, you, they kind of act like, well, no, we just, we preach the nice stuff and that's separate. And I would say, you're, you're actually, you're abdicating your job and that Christian faith is more than taking off these theological boxes. But we play along with that idea, you know, by like caring what Russell Moore's theology is when we can see everything he says and writes tells me something, which is very, very disturbing. Right. And it's important to note how this is going to be used, this issue of saying, we just have to get our theology right. and then we're Christians, because that's what you saw the Holy Post doing. So, you know, I want to quote for you.

I actually screenshot it from the podcast, The Transcript. Mike Kossper, who is, I think he's a creative director at Christianity today. Not positive what his title is, but he's familiar. He's very famous within evangelical circles for producing and hosting the rise and fall of Mars Hill podcast that covered what happened with Mike, Mark Driscoll, and the Mars Hill Church. So what he's, which is interesting. right? He would say that he and Mark Driscoll tend to be on the same page theologically. And yet, of course, he is completely opposed to Mark Driscoll because of what

he sees as his personality issues. And yet, when dealing with James Talarico, this was what Cospers said on that podcast. He said, as evangelicals, there's something good about seeing certain aspects of Christianity represented in the public square in the way that I think Tala Rico is doing it. I'm more encouraged by Tala Rico's expression of Christianity in the public square than by a lot of what we've seen in Maga World. So keep in mind what Tala Rico's positions are, which they didn't bring up the trans, they didn't bring up the abortion. They said the all roads lead to Christ, or lead to heaven was just a weak answer, not heresy, but a weak answer. And so I think that is what we're going to continue to need to be on the

look out for in this midterm election season as Christians because what they're trying to do is say, as long as you affirm the creeds, you're a Christian. And yet there is so much more beyond the Nicene Creed. As I said, Satan could affirm the Nicene Creed. Doesn't make him a Christian. And so that gets to how your faith is working itself out. And that's what you brought up, Eric, in terms of fruit. So if you have a fruit that cannot even look at someone like James Taylorico and say, listen, I don't like Donald Trump, but that man is a heretic and no Christian and someone no one should vote for given that he has anti-Christ views. Then at that point, you are so far off the reservation, it is really hard to look at you and go, I don't understand where your mind is. And it seems to me,

at the very least, not a baptized mind at this point. And so I don't know where you go with that. I'm not judging, you know, their salvation, but I'm saying certainly they're in a very blind moment. and hopefully I pray that's something they can come out of. But the bigger issue is, you know, these guys are annoying to me. You and I talk about them all the time. But what I want your audience to be aware of is the trick that's being played. So when you hear, hey, he's a Christian just like us, he just views things differently, no, he's a heretic and he's not a Christian.

And any true Christian should be able to say that. Well, and this gets back to whatever was four or five years ago. I mean, when Lecray, you know, this famous Christian brother rapper, endorses what's his face, Warnock in Georgia, who is a fire-breathing baby killer. You just think, ladies and gentlemen, what world are we living in? You don't care about that?

Or you're so ignorant maybe that you're just unaware of this? That's kind of where we are. We're out of time, Megan Basham. We love you. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me. Hi, everyone. If you were injured in an accident, listen up.

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