The Eric Metaxas Show - #98 - Naomi Wolf

Episode Date: April 16, 2026

Today On The Eric Metaxas Show, Eric talks with Naomi Wolf about the sudden rise of anti Semitism, Tucker Carlson’s shift on Israel and Islam, and the growing sense that powerful propaganda networks are trying to fracture the American right. They also dig into why Judeo Christian values built the West, why those values are now under attack, and how foreign influence may be exploiting confusion inside MAGA and the broader conservative movement. Subscribe for clips from The Eric Metaxas Show to hear politics and culture from a Christian perspective.

Hey, folks. Welcome to the program. It is my joy to introduce my Yale classmate, Naomi Wolf. Naomi, how pathetic that I introduce you that way. Welcome. Why is that pathetic? I introduce you that way. Because it's just so dumb. Like, who cares? You know, you and me and Scott Besant, you know, we're sane. And yet we graduated in the Yale class of 1984. What happened to us? I don't know. That's a great question. It's kind of crazy. I don't know.

Actually, you know, when you're produced, was asking me sort of what's on my mind recently, an essay that I haven't written yet, but I think it speaks to the question you just raised. Then it's not an essay. I hate to tell you, but go ahead. I know. It's all done in my mind.

How often have you heard people say that? I finished the book in my head. No, like what I think we were the tail end of the generations who were taught to ask open-ended questions and pursue evidence wherever it led without an ideological presumption. So maybe that. On the other hand,

that would suggest that all of our co-generationalists were as open-minded as we are and they're not. So I guess that... I think most of the people in the Yale Class of 84 drank the Kool-Aid. And it was forced-fed to us while we were there. I mean, it was just the zeitgeist. And if you think differently,

you're a fascist, you're whatever, you know. And so, but we don't need to get into that. The good news is we're not fascists and, and they are or something like that. Let's, let's, I want to talk to you, you know, because you're ethnically Jewish, I want to talk to you about the anti-Semitism that's all around us. And I have to say the headline for me is the general perplexity on what is really going on. I always say and anyone can say it's spiritual. That's a fact.

That's a fact. But I still want to understand the mechanics of what is happening. How is it, for example, that someone that I respected, Tucker Carlson, can have gone insane. He is now pushing out Islamic talking points about how Islam reveres Jesus, loves Jesus, and complete garbage, insane things. I mean, if you say I love Jesus, you know, in one of those countries, they'll cut your head off or they'll put you in prison or something like that. It's just a level of misinformation, disinformation, we used to call it lying,

that is practically inexplicable how someone like that, for example, could be pushing this, why he would be pushing it, What's in it for him? I am frankly baffled. I'll start there. Well, let me ask you, I mean, you guys have an acquaintanceship or I have to believe, have you asked him? No, I have not.

I really don't, you know, I have had some slight dealings with him. He had me on his show, but I don't. He has said so many things that are just crazy that I don't know how you have a conversation with someone like that. He asserts things. I mean, it's one thing for somebody to assert something that I disagree with. Right, right. But he has boldly said things that I flat out know to be ridiculous.

They're just crazy. And I think, why would you do that? Right. Right. And one of my theories is that he's making a lot of money from people who don't know any better. They don't know how ridiculous these things he's saying. He can sell his audience on this. And they don't have any place to go. they listen to him and why would he lie?

But he has just made many crazy statements. And I can't, I guess my problem is I've always thought too well of Tucker to think that he could just be whoring after money. I mean, there are people, I guess, who do that. But, you know, I would never think he's capable of that. So I'm genuinely mystified by the guests that he have on. You know, the inciting incident is when he's, platformed Nick Fuentes, who is one of those diabolical voices out there. And the fact that he

would do a thing like that, it's just, I really, I don't know where to begin. But let's just say that we know that anti-Semitism has been on the rise. And I didn't think I'd live to see it. And here we are. Yeah. I mean, I, you know, I want to affirm your headline. I mean, we're definitely seeing civilized, educated people in the mainstream, seeing things that civilized people stopped saying by about 1920 in American public life. And recycling propaganda, like the protocols of the elders of Zion that got debunked, you know, under the Tsars, you know, and recycling even blood liables, which are medieval fictions about Jews and their ritual practices. So it is a super weird time.

I agree with you that it's spiritual, but also something other than spiritual, because it happened all at once, right? I mean, we have to notice that all at once there was like a button pressed and the propaganda machine started churning out influencers, key influencers saying horrible, untrue things. Just a caveat, in the Quran, it does say that you should respect. the Abrahamic religions, it says you should respect

Abraham, Jesus, and Mary. It does say... I know that. Right. No, no. Visit BetMGM Casino and check out the newest exclusive. The Price is Right Fortune Pick.

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to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming, Ontario. I know that. They didn't practice. It's effectively garbage. Right. It's nonsense.

You're right. You know, the Christian faith asserts that Jesus is Messiah. He is God. We worship him. The Quran says the opposite. The Quran says that Muhammad is above Jesus. So everybody can believe what they like, but let's not pretend, Tucker, that. that the Iranian Revolutionary Guard is pro-Jesus.

Like, that's just ridiculous. It's insane. And other things, Tucker Carl, like, I literally had a nightmare about Tucker Carlson last night, you know, and these issues because it's all around us, right? His validating of absolutely disgusting lies about religion is creating kind of this poisonous atmosphere all around us that we can't escape. And it's very, very dangerous.

I mean, you know, I've said in essays in the past that the, you know, I never like to say speech is violence. But for sure, when people say, you know, Khabad is a cult and they're after you, you need to know where they are. You know, these are people who like visit the sick in hospitals and, you know, make sure the elderly people have somewhere to go for, you know, the holidays. that has a relationship to the massacre Aind to Chabad on Bandai Beach or all the targeting of Jews in New York City or in Amsterdam, you know, the eruption of anti-Semitism going on around the world.

So I can't speak to this, but I encourage you to speak to the guy who did the research. My husband, Brian O'Shea, did a blockbuster show last night about exactly this, because he's been tracking as an investigator, how is it that all of a sudden Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson, you know, four or five key influencers with giant audiences are recycling some of the same propaganda sound bites, especially about Jews and Israel. And then other people in a kind of ecosystem repeat those, repeat those, and then that becomes kind of the conventional wisdom. And he's, he's traced

it to Russian propaganda, a Russian propaganda network. And I don't want to speak for him because the very complex architecture that he's unveiled. But I will say, just with my political consultant hat on, it's kind of genius. And we've talked about this a little bit because the net effect of this propaganda is to splinter MAGA and MAHA, to divide MAGA from MAGA, to divide evangelicals from crazy everyone else, following Tucker Carlson, to divide, you know, Christians from Jews and is, you know, and people who love Israel who are Christian, evangelicals from Israel, right? And to basically splinter the majority of Americans under this, you know, big tent who are kind of faith-based and love the West and love their Judeo-Christian tradition. And by

doing so, it opens up what we've also talked about, which is a gigantic vulnerability into which is rushing the red-green alliance, which is Islam and communism. So now you add what Brian has uncovered, which is this impetus and the originating soundbites from a network based in Moscow, right? And so then you see what is the plan. Their goal, according to Brian, is a multipolar world in which we are not the hegemon, but in which there are like seven poles, like the lines. Let me translate that into English. Sure, please. The, so ladies and gentlemen, in case you're wondering, I can just go to the title of

my new book, Revolution, the birth of the greatest nation in the history of the world. America, this doesn't mean we're better. We're the same as anybody in the world. But our system is better. Our country is better. I hope, I wish that the whole world could be like. America. Anybody saying, you know what, you know, we don't need to be. That's just jingoism. And it would be great if China had power and Russia had power. Ladies and gentlemen, do you

understand the evil of the Chinese government? Do you understand what they do to their citizens? Do you understand what it is to live in a country where there is no belief in liberty and the sanctity of the individual? Anybody advocating that, you know, yeah, that's fine. is insane or evil or both. And so Tucker Carlson did that recently, and it seems that there are forces in Russia and in China that they don't want America to be dominant. They are afraid of us.

They hate us, and they're working overtime, and that's kind of part of what we're talking about. We'll be right back talking to Naomi Wolf. Hey there, folks, before we go, most of you know that wicked actors continue to attack Israel. If you want to help Israel at this time, we ask you to help our friends at Magin David Adom. Their website is savinglifeisrael.org. Savinglifeisrael.org. They are Israel's national emergency response team. Medics are on the ground. They rush into the danger. They are the ones who deal with the carnage. These are heroes. And if you want to help Israel, we recommend helping our friends at, Magan Davida Dome. The website again, savinglifeisrael.org, savinglifeisrael.org. A gift of $360 provides life-saving trauma kits. $1,000 helps protect the paramedic on the front lines, larger gifts,

help keep ambulances, blood drives, even medevac rescues operating around the clock. When tragedy strikes, AFMDA is there. Will you be there with them? Will you be there with them? Will you help them? You can do so by giving now at savinglife Israel.org. Welcome back. I'm talking to Naomi Wolf. Naomi, you just said that your husband, the genuinely brilliant Brian O'Shea,

has traced a lot of this misinformation to Russia. And I just think that we have to be, you know, honest and in a way logical. If you're Russia or you're China, why wouldn't you do everything you could to weaken the power of the United States? You have done tremendous work in showing that China used COVID and the COVID vaccine to weaken the West, to weaken its enemies. Why wouldn't you do that? The Nazis, if they had the technology, would have done it.

The Chinese have the ability to do it and they did it and they're doing it. Russia has great ability. Why wouldn't they do that? In other words, they don't believe what we believe. Right. You know, they don't believe in love and loving your enemies and the sanctity of every human life. They don't believe any of that. You know, they want power.

Why wouldn't we assume that they're doing everything they can to get that power by destabilizing the United States? It's logical. Right. And totally. And I think we are all slow to catch up with the new ways in which war. warfare and destabilization of nations are being waged. And what I mean by that is we still think of spy versus spy, you know, Cold War espionage. You know, their people are undercover. Our people are undercover. You know, we get the plans of the nuclear plant and bring them home to Washington. It's not like that anymore. This is a world in which all these people's kids go to our universities, right, or to Oxford and Cambridge, all of their kids, the Chinese. CCP leaders' kids, the oligarchs in Russia, their kids, they all, you know, are in this meta class now and are seamless in integrating into our societies, right? And also it's a world in which

technology allows, say, Russia or China to funnel, and I'm not saying the money, and I don't think Brian is seeing, the money goes directly from Russia to these influencers. But there are many, many NGOs, many, many law firms, many, you know, consulting firms that are American, right, or British, through which money can flow from Qatar, from Iran, from, you know, Moscow, and then kind of with no fingerprints and not even requiring FARA registration, right, unless it's carefully tracked, end up in an influence campaign in which people get talking points and repeat them with even, you know, even themselves possibly being what Brian calls unwitting assets, not even knowing that they're being mouthpieces for our enemies. So treason, it looks different than it

used to. And the treasonous meme, right, can be disseminated. And with AI, that amplifies all of this. You know, the treasonous meme, the sensibility that undermines American unity or American culture or American military preparedness or willingness to fight, right? All of that can be done now at the touch of a button, you know, digitally, electronically, you know, through wire transfers, through cutouts, through NGOs, through, you know, media companies. So we're looking at a very different landscape. And we don't do the same thing, you know, on the same scale that China and Russia do. we haven't succeeded in undermining Chinese or, you know, Iranian society through influence campaigns the way it appears they have succeeded in swaying some of our key influencers. It seems that part of the reason for that is that a lot of the places where we would do that, voice of America, all that stuff, has been all taken over by leftists.

I mean, over, you know, the decades. Yeah. And one other problem is we're an open society, so all those voices and influences can flood in, whereas in Iran, they just, you know, unplug the internet and then our version of rise up destabilized, you know, can't reach anyone. So our enemies have an advantage in destabilizing us. But, you know, we've talked about this. Look at the essence of these new messages. These new messages are meant to fragment like. And you, more than any scholar outside of the academy, has done more than anyone to show that strength and resilience of our common theological roots in America, our Judeo-Christian roots, going back right to the Old Testament, you know, right through the New Testament to the Old Testament, that essence, our DNA, just as you said, like, it's not a, it's not arbitrary that we believe that you don't leave babies out to die. That comes from the Old Testament and the New Testament.

It's not arbitrary that we try to resolve conflict with diplomacy before we, you know, tear the women of our enemy out of their homes by their hair and enslave them. That comes for... Well, these are, these are, we have to go to break here, but I was going to say these are biblical values, ladies and gentlemen. They didn't come, you know, from the Enlightenment. They didn't come from nowhere. They didn't come from China. We'll be right back. I don't like alarmism. I don't like fear-mongering. I especially don't like people who profit from panic. But I do believe in telling the truth,

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You don't need to panic, but you do need to be informed in times like these. Wisdom matters more than optimism. Welcome back talking to Naomi Wolf. Naomi, you know, you were just talking about this idea, which I've talked about a lot, that our values in the West are biblical values. In my upcoming book on the Revolution, I show that the men behind this revolution were wanting to go back to the Sinai covenant. They wanted to go back, not so much to the Roman Republic.

I mean, that figures in. but ultimately to the Sinai covenant where we have no king, we have no Pharaoh, we look directly to God, and we govern ourselves. It's a radical idea in world history, and they wanted to reestablish that kind of government. And Jefferson and Franklin, whom everyone points out at, oh, they're big deists, when they were asked to design the seal of the new nation, both of them came up with versions of the Israelites in the desert. Wow. The Israelites parting the Red Sea. Everyone looked back to that.

That was the grand narrative to which everyone looked back. We want that. We want to start. Can we have a country where we have that again? And all of our values flow out of that. George Washington's values as a commander. They all had this biblical view. And what I keep saying is that these views, these biblical views,

Christian views became so dominant that pretty much everybody in the West takes them for granted. So every atheist, every whatever says like, oh, yeah, I believe in caring for the poor and they act like, yeah, we all know that, but where did it come from? That's where it came from. And we've forgotten where it came from. And so now people are ignorantly open to Marxism or to anything because they think that we can take these ideas for granted. But all you have to do is look around the world and realize that other societies do

not have these values. That's right. A hundred percent. And we we make suicidal decisions by mirror imaging and assuming, well, you know, we believe women have rights. You know, everyone's going to believe women have rights. And that was literally an idea. I mean, you know, it's so vivid to me because, as you know, I'm reading through the Hebrew Bible in Hebrew and using the Puritan's translation, the 1560 Geneva Bible, which is so good and so accurate. the Founders Bible. And it's so clear as these rights are introduced that no one else around this group of people is, it believes these things. You know, no one else believes that you don't enslave your wife. You don't, you know, sacrifice your children to Baal, right? They're radical

new ideas. And they dissent to us in, you know, they descend to us, as you say, from the Old Testament and the New Testament's kind of refreshing of them. distillation of them. But we are so vulnerable because if we don't realize, even if we're atheists, you know, we inherit this structure, this framework for our moral lives. Like everything, orphanages, hospitals, the fact that we don't just leave elders to die in the street, right? This is all Judeo-Christian values, Western values. And if we assume that everyone else just is like that, because we're human beings, we're opening ourselves up to really the end of civilization, like total barbarism, you know, and going back to the 7th century or, you know, 2,500 BCE, you know,

depending on where you want to start the clock, before these radical ideas got, you know, introduced and disseminated about the equality of people, value of human life and so on. It's a very dangerous time. Don't miss the devil wears prodig too in theaters. Merrill Street. Anne Hathaway. Emily Blount and Stanley Tucci are back. In light of the recent scandal, I'm here to restore your credibility.

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I just love my job. Get tickets now. The devil wears Trotter 2. In theaters, May 1st, directed by David Frankel. Well, it always, in researching my book, I just became crazier and crazier at the idea that People act as though Thomas Jefferson came up with the idea that all men are created equal. And that's the dumbest thing in the world. He wrote the sentence.

And I think he gets way too much credit, frankly. It's bizarre. Because these were biblical ideas that the men of the revolution believed in these ideas. Right. And they knew where these ideas came from. That's right. They didn't come from nowhere. They came from the Bible.

They're radical ideas. And the question was, would it be possible? to take those ideas and create a government, create a nation based on those ideas. Because it's one thing to believe something. It's another thing to take those ideas and import them into your culture, into the way you govern. That's what they were trying to do.

And they all said it. They all knew that this really hadn't been done before, but they believed that they could pull it off. They weren't sure that they could pull it off. But I think what you're saying, and I've said it many times myself, that we take these ideas for granted, that all these ideas have become so successful

that, well, we should care for the poor. We argue about how, you know, should it be the government or should it be the private sector. But we don't argue about whether. Everyone says, well, of course, we should care for the poor. These are all biblical ideas.

And I think we're at a time in our culture now where we have to reestablish what these ideas are, who believes it, why we believe it. We'll be right back talking to Naomi Wolf. Hey there, folks. I've been saying that 2026 must be the year of accountability. Whether talking about government spending or the way we steward our own families, we have a moral duty to seek the truth.

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because it is a very chaotic, confusing time for any thinking person, it's forcing us to reaffirm the basics and to say, excuse me, not everyone believes that women are equal to men and believes that women should be treated like men. Not everyone believes that we're all made in God's image and have certain and alienable. Not everybody believes that. And we can just look around the world right now, the way the Iranian regime treats women.

Wow. It's just, it's, unbelievable that the world isn't condemning this, that the West isn't condemning this. That's apart from whether we should be militarily involved. But to be clear on how they treat women, something we thought had been settled a long time ago. Right. Yeah. We're so naive.

I'm reading a book called After Jesus Before Christianity. And I just read SPQR, which is about the first couple of centuries of the common era and the Roman Empire. It was absolutely standard in the Roman, you know, the Roman Empire with all its beautiful art, magnificent architecture, innovations in, you know, managing a far-flung empire, roads, you know, technology. They left baby girls out to die. They left unwanted babies of both sexes out to die. They just exposed them, is the euphemism. They left them to die on hillsides. And because they weren't a Judeo-Christian society yet, you know, they became one. And then that practice stopped. But right now in Pakistan, which is Muslim society, there are reports, and this is very common, of bodies of little baby girls left in garbage dumps because they don't want the, you know, because little girls are not valued the way little boys are in a lot of Muslim societies. for various reasons.

And because human life isn't valued in the same way. You could look at women as well. And this dates from like there's a section in I think either Exodus or Leviticus in which, you know, for the first time, someone is saying if you cause a woman to lose her baby, you have to pay this, this, and this and damages. You have to go before a judge, et cetera. Like the baby has value even though it's not material value the way, you know, babies are valued in societies. And you mean it even if it's not yet born?

Not yet born, exactly. And also whatever gender. You know, it's not like, oh, if it's a baby girl, you don't have to pay anything if you cause her to miscarry. Well, even identifying it as a baby, having not yet been born, is a radical statement. I have to agree with you. I mean, you know, I'm still regrettably sort of pro-choice, but a thousand percent, you know, I have to agree with you. That's very clear. And again, the status of women, I just got through reading this amazing section of numbers.

in which, you know, three women are saying, look, why don't we get to inherit two? We don't have husbands. We don't have brothers to inherit. You know, why should our dad's, you know, inheritance go back to the tribe? We're right here. And the judge's decision is, yes, these women can inherit property. This anticipates what happened in British law. You know, married women didn't get to inherit property until the 1880s in Britain and America.

So that is an incredible innovation. And then you look at what's going on with women in, I'm going to again use the example of Pakistan. A recent judgment said, oh, this young woman was raped by, you know, the son of this family. Well, the penalties, you know, this family's son gets to rape their daughter. I mean, that is like a pre-Judeo-Christian. I'm just going to say it, barbaric, primitive stage of human development. it's not one we want to go back to, but we better face the fact that the notion that any rape victim in the West can even think that she has rights to, you know, send her rapist to prisoner to even get an impartial hearing for the harm done to her that comes right from the Old Testament. You know, certainly Jesus treated women and men radically as equals.

And it does not descend from these tribal, rural, now Muslim societies. It's a completely difficult. I mean, this gets to the idea that, you know, not all religions are equal, not all cultures are equal. And I think you and I at Yale in the 80s were kind of brainwashed into saying or into thinking, well, I can't say that because that's racist. Ladies and gentlemen, we have to be honest. When William Wilberforce was in parliament, he didn't just lead the battle for the abolition of the slave. in slavery, he also tried to get missionaries to be able to go to India. Why? The East India company didn't want missionaries there. They knew that if Christian missionaries come to India,

they're going to share, spread Christian values in India, which was an oppressive, wicked society. And the thing that made Wilberforce most animated was that in many cases, there's a practice, I'm sure, Naomi, you've heard of it called Sati, where if a man dies, his body is burned on a funeral pyre. His living widow is burned alive on the funeral pyre. Wilberforce said, this is wicked. We must put an end to this. We have tremendous power.

The British Empire had tremendous power in India. We've got to do something about this. But there were voices then, and they're the same voices today, that say, well, that's just how they live. just different. We don't want to, we don't want to judge them or we don't care enough about them to try to bring our civilized values to them. And of course, it's preposterous. Women were literally burned alive because British men with power didn't care. Yeah. And Wilberforce knew that if we bring Christian values there, that's going to change. And this is trawl over the world. So to

pretend that all values are equal, all systems, all religious systems are equal is ridiculous. But you know, the secular cultural elites, they just don't want to talk about that because then it brings up the actual reality of, you know, these moral questions. They want to think that it's all subjective, it's all relative. But if you have that view, women are literally burned alive. At least that's the specific instance that I'm referencing. Well, Eric, I'm going to gently push back a little on your framing there. I, a thousand percent agree with you in the example of Satie is a powerful one. But I don't think it's necessary or really helpful for us to say some religions or practice, you know, cultures are better than others. I think it's completely legitimate to say

are better than others for us or from our perspective. Here's why I think that. I've traveled to a lot of Muslim countries. They think we're a bunch of degenerate barbarians. I'm not kidding. You know, from their point of view, we're having sex outside of marriage. We're destroying the family. Even a lot of Indians in, you know, Hindu societies think that the West is very degenerate because we don't respect our elders. We don't take care of our elders. We put them in your... Well, you and I, but you and I would agree with that as far as that goes. Totally. We're not saying that everything about this culture is better. Right. But all I'm saying is I think it's very incumbent on us to be willing to say, we don't want that here. That may be great,

you know, you may want this in Morocco. You may want this in Algeria. We don't want that. Here for us in America or in Britain for this reason. It does not, it is an alien and bad from our point of view. I just think that's better because otherwise you get into this like endless tangle of what does that mean to be a better sense? No, no, that's a good. That's a good point. I think the reason I'm putting it that way is because the other day, one of the thing,

one of the preposterous things that Tucker said, he was, he was bothered that President Trump in President Trump's Trumpian way had mocked the Iranian Revolutionary Guard by saying praise Allah or something in that deliberately unhinged tweet. And Tucker says, how can he mock religion? You know, and I thought many people said, excuse me, Elijah, you know, mocked the prophets of bail. He didn't say, hey, I respect the prophets of bail. We disagree. He mocked them because he knew at the heart of it is diabolical wickedness. It is burning children alive. Right. And so, even though I agree with your general pushback, you're quite right to bring that up.

We have to be clear that there are some faiths that will promote, for example, religious liberty. And that's another thing I write about in my book is that George Washington and others were really clear that we may differ. We may genuinely differ theoretically, but we won't persecute you for that. We allow you to have a different view.

And there are many religions in the world that will not allow you to have a different view. They believe in things. They believe in conversion by the sword and by threat. Well, Eric, sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead. No, I wish you had a, you know, gigantic voice in the direction of your co-religionists who are in an unhinged way calling for a theocracy. I mean, people I love and respect to our Christians are starting to say, we want a Christian America, Christ is king, you know, politically.

as if the founders did not carefully say freedom of conscience, freedom of religion. Well, that is a larger conversation because there are bad voices in there. And see, I would say, and it's very different from the people proclaiming quote unquote Christ as king, there are people who believe in theocracy. And there are people like me who believe at the essence of Christian faith is religious liberty, is anti-theocracy. So the question is you have to talk about, you know, I do want to legislate murder is wrong. Okay. But there's certain. That's not forcing people to worship in a certain. No, that's the point. And so I, of course, I agree with you. And I think that there are voices

claiming to be Christian, but it's heresy. They're saying heretical things. Naomi, we're out of time. I'm very sorry to say that. It's always a joy to see you and speak with you. Thanks for coming on the program. I'm really just so grateful. Thank you. It's finally here, our second annual mega sale. This sale only comes around once a year, so take advantage of the best offers ever while you can. For example, save 50% on our Giza Dream bedsheets as low as 2998. And for the first time ever on TV,

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