The Eric Metaxas Show - Abby Johnson (Encore)

Episode Date: April 21, 2022

Abby Johnson, who's first book "Unplanned" told of her dramatic departure from Planned Parenthood as an executive, goes even deeper into her "conversion story" with "Fierce Mercy." (Encore Presentation)

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mataxis show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metaxos. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. The Texas show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Folks, I'm talking to Andrew Claven. He has a brand new book out. Highly recommended the truth and beauty, how the lives and works of England's greatest poets point the way to a deeper understanding of the words of Jesus.

Where in the world did you get this? idea. It's almost funny. It's totally counterintuitive. It's like it could be like, you know, how the paintings of the 15th century. I mean, you obviously, Andrew, were a student of these poets for a while. So let me ask you that. How did you find your way into caring about their literature? Because obviously, their literature helped you understand the words of which can be perplexing if we're honest. But how did you find your way to these poets to begin with? Well, I'd always loved them.

Mostly it was Keats. I found first his life was so romantic, so dramatic, so tragic, that it had a lot of appeal to a young man who was himself troubled, namely me. And so when I found him as a young man, I just thought, this guy is a really dramatic character, his striving to be a great writer, which I wanted to be, his desperation, his problem. He never succeeded in his life.

He died thinking himself a failure, which is one of the parts of the book that I could barely write without like breaking down because it was so painful to watch this young man pass away thinking, I failed at everything, when in fact he had succeeded at every single thing he was trying to do. So that's what really brought me in. And then I read all the poets because they're such great poets

and each one of them sort of speaks into the other. And the key thing that happened, to inspire this book is my son at some point said to me when I was trying to understand the words of Jesus he said, you know, your problem is you're trying to understand a philosophy instead of trying to get to know a man.

And I thought that was really brilliant because when you know somebody, you don't necessarily say, ah, Eric, you know, he's the kind of guy who has this philosophy. What you say is, oh, if Eric were here, he would say this. You start to know, you know, what a guy would think and what he was, what he's seen. Actually, now you bring up

a point that's very big for me, and I didn't realize this when I started writing these biographies, like it wasn't my plan. But in retrospect, you realize that inevitably, God is a person, and he speaks through persons. There's something about, it's almost like the fundamental building blocks of the universe, are not atoms, they're people, and how perfect that he would become a person, Jesus, and that it is the person of Jesus, not his philosophy. but the person somehow that says everything, that speaks beyond, you know, philosophical bromides and thoughts. So it's interesting that that's kind of the through line for you in this book.

And biography is exactly to the point because the experiment that I pulled as I reread the gospels. I actually taught myself Greek to do it so I could read it in the original, which I didn't do it very well, but I did it. And I forgot all the theology. I pushed it out of my mind. Even even the theology of Paul, whatever it was, I just thought, I just want to get to know this guy. So it was very much like reading a great biography where you start to know, you start to see through the eyes of the guy who is the story is about, or even reading a novel where you start to get to know the character. And so that was my experiment. It was not to say, it's not a book of theology. It is not a book of theology. And some people, a couple of people I sent it who got

angry at me because it says things that weren't in their theology. And I said, no, you can still believe what you want to believe. This is my experience of meeting this man and coming back to tell it. And as I did, it was the words of these poets that kept coming into my mind. And that's where the idea of the book came from. I thought, oh, these poets are explaining this man to me. And so maybe that would work for other people as well, even if they've never heard of these poets before. Well, and it is amazing that at the end of the book, you do get into this. And you talk about things that Jesus said that are counterintuitive, putting it mildly. They're kind of like infuriating provocative counterintuitive like what? You know,

they're like bombs being thrown into our world. So like to reorder everything. And I love what you talk about when you talk about how he, you know, he tells us to love the man who was set upon by robbers, right? At the end of the story, the Good Samaritan and how it's not about because we treat someone right, that will lead them on the right path or whatever. It really is just about unconditional love, that Jesus is modeling for us, this idea of loving the unlovable, and giving the results to God. So it's just about doing what God does and trusting God with the results, not about doing something to get something or to kind of force somebody to change in a way. I mean, I just thought that was a kind of a major point. It's a huge point because I think one of

ways the church has lost its way is by trying to be relevant for trying to make the world a better place. And if there's one thing Jesus never said is that the world was going to become a better place. He said the opposite of that. You know, he said, give your money to the poor, but the poor you're going to have with you, follow me, but the world is going to hate you. And in the case of the Good Samaritan, you know, when you talk about that love that he is calling on you for, as you say, it's not to make the world better. It's not to change the man who is mugged. He may remain a bad guy. He may be a bad guy and stay that way. It's so you can see. what God sees because God is love and God loves us so much that when we love like God does,

we see what he sees and the joy that is in Jesus is in us. And I think that that is what he's trying to give us. He's trying to give us a wave of seeing. And so when you do these things, whenever I hear people talk, I never hear them say, why are we supposed to do this? Why should I love my enemies? Why should I? Why should I walk in love?

Why should I give money to the poor at all? It's certainly not so I can walk around thinking, what a charitable guy I am. I know I'm not that nice guy. We all know that about ourselves, you know. But when you do these things, when you let go of the things that matter to you and you start to pour love into people, you start to see them as God sees them, and they become beautiful. And life becomes beautiful. And your life becomes beautiful. It is quite an amazing experience.

You can practice it, you know, you can work at it. You can get better at it. It is really something that I think Christians should be thinking. thinking about more is how, what do I see when I walk down the street? Because you are creating, even when you walk down the street, you're creating an experience that has never been created before and will never be created again and is part of God's creation, a continuation of God's creation. That's a pretty exciting thing to be doing while you're walking down the street. So you might want to pay attention to it. And that's what I, I hope this book gives you a little bit

of a way to start to do that. Well, this is deep stuff. And, you know, the book is not going to be for everybody, which is part of the reason I want to have you back just to continue talking about this, because there is so much here, and it's beautiful. But some of it is deep. When you get into talking about how there's the object and then the word for the object and then the meaning, I thought, whoa, that's, that's heavy, and it's Trinitarian. And you're getting to the, you're getting to the, what did you say is it metaphors all the way down or something like that? Yeah, it's a fractal. Yeah, everything, every single thing is a metaphor, yeah.

I mean, it's heavy stuff, but because you're talking, Andrew, about the nature of reality. You're talking about the very nature of reality. You're not talking about the nature of physical reality. You're talking about the nature of reality itself as God has created it. So it's beautiful. It's deep. It really is extraordinary. What you just talked about walking down the sidewalk, you know, and how the romantics began to figure this out.

these poets that we are collaborating with reality and creating a new thing, our lives. I mean, it is, it is heavy stuff. It is, it's beautiful and deep. But it is for everybody. I mean, as the Gospels tell us, I mean, I've known people who do it without thinking, most of the moms, most of the mothers, there's a lot in the book about motherhood, and most of the people I've known who do it without thinking have been mothers with small children, and they just invest their lives into that, and suddenly they become joyful and they, you know, they don't really know what it is, but it is this kind of love that is connecting them to the creation of the world that they're getting to do. I think men

have a harder, another step they have to take. And I think we envy sometimes, I know I envy mothers, sometimes like complete involvement in life, but it can be done. And Jesus was here to help us do it, because when we do it, we connect to him and we become what he call the branch of the vine. You know, you become a creative person, which you can't be on your own when on your own, you're simply going to do what I did for many of the years of my life. You're going to create your own kind of craziness over and over again in the world. We see this in Hollywood. We see all these very talented people turning out garbage because they haven't, they're not connected to the source.

All right. Look, we've got to have you back ASAP. Folks, the book, brand new book, The Truth and Beauty, Andrew Claven. Thank you so much. It's great to see Eric. It always is. Tell me, Eric, why has relief? factor so successful at lowering or eliminating pain. I'm often asked that question. The owners of

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That's InspireInsight.com. Go there. Folks, this The Eric Metaxis show. I'm at the NRB in Nashville. And I, uh, I, get to talk to the most interesting people. I'm sitting here with Abby Johnson. Some of you know Abby Johnson. I never know Abby how to describe you. You're a fierce voice for the unborn, but if you don't mind, because I have such an eclectic audience, there are people that aren't

familiar with your story. So before we talk about your new book, which is called Fierce Mercy, if you don't mind, give a brief version of your story, how you came to where you are. Sure. So I worked at Planned Parenthood for eight years of my life. I was an abortion clinic director, started in college, moved my way up, and ended up leaving in October of 2009. After a few things that happened, just started to realize what was really going on inside of the industry. and ultimately, though, left after witnessing a live ultrasound guided abortion procedure where I saw a 13-week-old baby fight and struggle for his life. And I knew then that there was life in the womb, there was humanity in the womb,

and if those two things were true, then I knew I was on the wrong side of the debate. So I ended up leaving and sort of accidentally getting involved in the pro-life movement because Planned Parenthood sued me and that ended up going public. And, yeah, now I just go over. around and fight for life. I'm in awe. You know, it's so funny because you just rattle that off. Wow. Even hearing it for the 10th time, it's just astonishing. You were involved at Planned Parenthood for how long? Eight years. Eight years. You became a director of a clinic. Yes. Where? Where was that? It was in Texas. It was in Brian College Station, Texas,

so where A&M is. So you were on board. You think this is women's health. You're doing a good thing. and one day, just take us back, because this is the thing that changed everything for you. One day, you're asked to assist with an ultrasound because somebody wasn't there. Well, no, we had a visiting physician in, and abortions are usually done. I mean, abortions are, I mean, just very barbaric anyway, but we had a visiting physician come in, and abortions are usually traditional. done without ultrasound guidance. So the abortionist has this suction tube. He inserts it into a woman's uterus and he just blindly pokes around inside of her uterus until he has enough

blood and tissue in this glass jar. Blood and tissue being the baby. The former human being. Yes. And then that glass jar goes into a lab called the POC lab. POC stands for products of conception, otherwise known as the baby. And then there's a technician in there that dumps everything out and reassembles the parts of the baby to make sure everything was suctioned out. Okay, again, like what you just said, so matter of factly, because you've told the story so many times, some people haven't heard this story. And when you get, when you break it down just the way you did, it's just impossibly gruesome.

It is just an amazing thing. Yeah, it is. They reassemble, they dump out the jar of stuff and reassemble the torn apart human corpse just to make sure there's not an arm or a leg left inside the uterus, which can then cause sepsis and kill the mother. Right. And so this physician, though, he was, you know, new to us. He ran his own abortion facility in Austin. and he had said that at his own facility, he performed abortions with ultrasound guidance only because he said it was safer for the women, which made sense. Which does make sense. Because, you know, our doctors were just ramming this probe into the body of a woman.

So we had a pretty high rate of uterine perforation where the doctor would like poke a hole through the woman's uterus because he can't see when to stop. Because he can't see where the baby ends and the mother begins. Right. So, you know, he called me in because traditionally there was not someone in there using an ultrasound. And so I was called in to assist. And that was my job. And I do want to say, I'm not a nurse.

I'm not a doctor or anything like that. I'm a therapist. So, I mean, I shouldn't be participating in any sort of medical procedures. but in the abortion industry, it doesn't matter. You don't have to be medically qualified to do these medical procedures or anything like that. You just have to be a warm body and show up. So you show up. Yeah.

And you see that already at 13 weeks, this baby is fighting for its life. It's being, I mean, can you describe something of what you saw? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, by 13 weeks, everything on a pre-born human being is completely formed. So really by 12 weeks. So arms, legs, fingers, toes, heart has been beating since three weeks post-conception. Every single organ, internal organ that we sit here with today has been formed on a pre-born human child by 12 weeks. So, you know, I'm sitting there, I'm standing there looking at this screen.

And I'm, I've felt apprehensive actually in that moment because I was thinking, what, like, what am I about to see here? But I had been told by Planned Parenthood so many times that the fetus had no feeling. The fetus had no sensory development. Babies don't feel anything. So I was trying to reassure myself of that. And then I saw the suction tube. The suction wasn't yet turned on. I saw that going into the woman's uterus.

And I could see that on the actual ultrasound monitor. And it got closer and closer to the side of the baby. And when it finally touched the baby's side, the baby sort of jumped. Like it was, you know, shocked. I mean, it jumped. And then the baby started moving around and sort of flailing his arms and legs as if he was trying to get away from the probe. And the doctor asked the technician to turn on the suction machine. And he said, beam me up, Scotty.

Okay, the doctor said, beam me up, Scotty. Cracking a joke, Star Trek joke, because we're now going to suck this human being into another dimension. But that's, that alone, I remember you telling me that, that's amazing. Well, Eric, I mean, I can't even, like, on radio, get into all of the comments that were made from our doctors, from staff, about the women that came in, comments about their bodies. I mean, I can't even say the stuff that they would say. It would be wildly inappropriate. But, I mean, the way, the fact that the abortion industry is out here saying that they are championing women,

that they are, you know, some sort of advocate for women. If you heard the way that they talked about women inside of these clinics, If you heard the way that these doctors degraded women, the way that they talked about their bodies, it's disgusting. And so it's nothing for them to then, you know, dehumanize and degrade the life of a child. I mean, that's nothing. And my doctor, I mean, my supervisor used to joke about the contents of the, in the POC lab, all the babies. that, you know, they would just be lined up on this cabinet in these trays. And she would joke about how it looked like barbecue.

I mean, this is the, I don't think people understand the depths of depravity that is inside and just the demonic spirit that is associated with abortion. it's truly unbelievable. And you only know it to be true if you've actually been inside of these facilities and you've seen it. I mean, I've heard things like this. Hearing it from you, it just becomes the more dramatic

because you were there and you were there, you know, with a good attitude. You're thinking, like, I'm doing something that I think is good, But you couldn't help notice this anyway, that the way they talked about these clients, these sad young women who have been persuaded. Now, one of the reasons that I love hearing from you, Abby, is because I know that most young women in America, they never hear this stuff. We live in a world where the reality of what you've experienced is basically censored. It's absolutely censored. It's absolutely sensitive.

So there's somebody out there now listening to this program on podcast or on radio, and they're hearing this and they're thinking, can this be true? I had no idea. Why have I never heard this? If I've never heard this, this can't really be true, can it? Yeah, yeah, it can be true, and it is true. And if you've heard it, now you're responsible for this information in whatever world you live in. We'll be right back.

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Investments.com. Hey there, folks. This is Eric Metaxis show. It's a show. And yet, it's real. I talk to real people. This is not scripted. I have sitting next to me here, Abby Johnson, who has a new book out called Fierce Mercy, Daring to Live Out God's Compassion in Bold and Practical Ways. So we've just heard the gist of your story. So what is this new book about Fierce Mercy? Yeah, so I wanted to write sort of a follow-up to unplanned. So I wrote, you know, I write unplanned. That comes out in 2011. Then, you know, that was sort of my journey in and out of Planned Parenthood. Then I write another book called The Walls Are Talking,

and that was specific stories from, you know, inside the abortion industry. Then the film Unplanned comes out in 2019. Yes, the film, the story you just told, was told in a feature film called Unplanned. That's right. With my friend Mike Lindell driving a bulldozer. Yes. That was, of course, my favorite part of the film.

Yeah, mine too. And then yesterday, we're here at NRB. The woman who played you, I think I saw her yesterday. Yes, she was here. At a gathering. But that film came out when? March 2019. 2019.

Okay. Yeah. So keep going. And so I thought, you know, everything I've done has been really intensely focused on abortion, which, I mean, that's my wheelhouse, right? But I, you know, there's so, I mean, there's so much more to my story than just I used to run a clinic, right? So, I mean, I've, you know, been married for 16 years, I think, 16 years. and, you know, my husband and I have gone through a tremendous amount of healing. You know, my husband was always pro-life when I worked at Planned Parenthood.

So when I left Planned Parenthood, we had to go through a tremendous amount of healing. Our, you know, our marriage was in a very tough place. So, you know, we had to work through a lot. We, you know, had a huge conversion just in our faith journey. We were kicked out of the church that we had been going to because it was pro-choice. told we were not welcome there. You went to a church that specifically identified as pro-choice. Yeah, the Episcopal Church.

Oh, I've heard of the Episcopal Church. They've gone to hell in a handbasket. Yeah. In a good way. I would never insult the Episcopal Church on this program. Okay, so they, but I mean the idea they kicked you out, they're supposed to be like really inclusive. Super tolerant.

So I, so we were kicked out. You know, we had this big, like, faith transition and, you know, coming back to Christ. when I left Planned Parenthood, I just had one kid, and actually I was a terrible mom while I worked at Planned Parenthood. I was never home. I worked 80 hours a week. I really didn't even want to be a mom. And so, you know, God really changed my heart on that too. I had to relearn how to be a mom. I had to, you know, relearn how to be a wife. And then now we have eight children. So we went from one child to eight children.

We adopted one of our children. And so there was just a lot to our story. And I wanted to talk about all of that. And I felt like, I feel like I've messed up so much in my life that my life is just one big display of God's mercy. And so I really wanted to showcase what God can do in someone's life and just how amazing and how big he is and how awesome. he is and really how small we are in the grand scheme of things. And so, so that's why I did. So that's why I wrote the book. I wanted people to just, just see how amazing God's mercy is that it's available to everyone. And then what do we do? Like when we receive it, then how does that translate to other people?

How do we then give it out to other people who maybe are unlovable? Maybe people we don't like, things like that. Like these people sitting in front of us here. Beautiful people. I have to show God's mercy to this group. I'm not ready to go there yet. Tell me why. Tell me why.

No, it is funny because it's easy when somebody, I mean, what you're talking about, that's called real life. And it's why we need God, right? Because God enables us to understand how to do the right thing. When everything in us says no, avoid. Avoid, avoid the pain. So the book Fierce Mercy, you tell your story going back to what, when you were first married?

Well, I sort of, I actually start the, I start the book out by talking about going onto the set of unplanned, which was a really odd experience for me. So, you know, I go onto the set. Most people have not been on the sets of movies where their life stories are being portrayed. I just want to be clear. Most of us, you know, have not had that experience. But I have not been on a movie set at all, you know. And so this is my first time ever being on a movie set, much less a movie about myself. And so I, you know, I roll up in this rental car and they had turned this community center into a set to look like my former clinic.

Oh. So they had even put up like this big iron, you know, fence and everything. And so that was a little odd. So I, you know, I pull up and I'm like, whoa, that really does look like my clinic and my former clinic. And so I get out and there's, you know, hundreds of people there on set, a bunch of extras. And they're all like, oh, my gosh, Abby Johnson's here. And they're sort of treating me like this celebrity. Right.

And which always makes me a little uncomfortable anyway. And then I, you know, I go and I sit and I'm with the directors and I'm, you know, I see. Ashley there, you know, the actress that plays me. I see her, you know, in the scene. I'm watching it on the, you know, on the little TVs or whatever. And then I'm seeing her and I'm like, oh, my gosh, I'm watching this other woman act out the biggest regrets of my life. Oh, that sounds like a bad experience. We're going to be right back to hear more about this with Abby Johnson.

The new book is Fierce Mercy. Hey folks, if you listen to this program, of course, you've heard me talk at infinitum about my pillow and my friend Mike Lindell. Well, Mike has just announced that you will receive one of his books and the book is next level insane. It is called What Are the Odds from Crack Addict to CEO? It's his story. You will receive it absolutely free with any purchase using the promo code Eric. Did you hear that? it would be a great time, by the way, to buy his warm and wonderful my slippers.

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and use the promo code, Eric. Folks, welcome back. It's here from the Texas show. I'm talking to Abby Johnson, who has a new book out called Fierce Mercy. So you're talking about the story of your life being filmed in the movie unplanned. You go on the set and you watch this actress who's portraying you acting out some of the most horrible moments of your life. Yeah.

And I'm like, oh my gosh. I'm like, this is so embarrassing. Like, I, and it just sort of. of hits me and I'm thinking I am so embarrassed right now I want to go back into my car the rental car I want to like climb in the floorboard or I just want to like get in the car and drive back to Texas I was so embarrassed I then felt just this I was like I don't want the movie to come out I don't I don't want anybody to see this I don't want anybody to see you know me having an abortion I don't want anybody to see me talking women into having abortions. I mean, this was like the worst version of Abby Johnson, and it's going to be up on the big screen. Okay, but you already knew that it had a happy ending or redemptive ending, and even knowing that, it was painful for you. It was so hard. And in that moment, I was sitting there in this director's chair, right? So stereotype.

Anyway, I'm sitting in this director's chair, and I'm walking. watching the TV and I have these headphones on. And I'm just like crying because at that moment, I'm just like, I just want to run. I just want to get out of here. And one of the directors, Carrie Solomon, he must have noticed that I was really having a moment. And he just reached over and he put his hand on mine. And in that moment, I just really, it was like I just, I just, audibly heard the Lord say, it's not about you. It's about me.

You heard the Lord speak to you audibly. Yeah. Not a lot of people have had that experience. You heard the Lord speak to you in an audible voice. And he said, it's not about you. It's about me. And I was like, okay. I was like, you're right. Because in the end, the movie could have been about somebody named Alice Burns,

for all I care, right? I didn't do... Or Albin Seder, my producer. Exactly, or Eric Matackson. It could have been about anybody. It wasn't about me. It wasn't about making Abby Johnson a household name, right? This was about showing people that nobody is beyond the power of God's mercy.

Nobody is beyond the power of Jesus Christ. And so that's why we wanted to do it. to help bring people to a place of conversion. So then, fast forward, and the film is done, and the producers come down, and they show the film at my home. So Doug and I are sitting in the living room. The producers are there. They put it up on the TV.

We're watching it. And I'm like, okay, you know, great. They get done. They leave. And I am, like, panicked. I'm trying not to show it, but I'm panicked. And I look at Doug, and I said, I don't want to do this. and I said, is it too late to say no?

I don't want to do this. To say no to what? To say, to say, I don't want to put the movie out. Like, I want to cancel the whole thing. And I was totally serious. And Doug, my husband looks to me and he goes, yeah, yeah, I think it's a little late. I think it's moving forward. That's why God puts us in marriages.

Yeah, and I was like. You needed a strong man to tell you, are you crazy? And I was just like so panicked. Oh, my God. And right then, he looked at me, Doug looked at me, and he goes, Abby. I never told Doug that story, right, about hearing from the Lord. Right then. You never told your husband that you heard audibly from the Lord.

No. So right then, we have communication issues. So right then. Oh, we know that. So right then, Doug looks at me and he goes, Abby, this is not about you. It's about the Lord. Oh. And I was like, oh my gosh.

I was like, you're right. But you didn't make the false conclusion that your husband is God. Then I was like, my husband is the Lord. My husband is God. And that led to further problems. It was dog coming through the head full. No, but isn't it funny? I mean, God, you know, the way God works sometimes, like the levels and the cleverness.

But the idea that he would speak to an audible voice. There are tons of people at this N.R.B convention that don't even believe that's possible. Oh, it's possible. No, no, you don't need to tell me. It's possible. But I'm just saying there are people who actually, theologically, that's not possible. We know it's possible. We know what happened to you. But the idea that then God would confirm it in his mercy and tenderness that he would confirm that through the mouth of your husband. Yeah. And that's amazing. And that's, you know, I talk about some of that in the book because for, you know, eight years that I had worked at the clinic, I had completely emasculated my husband. I had not allowed him to be the leader of our home.

You know, I was terrible to my husband. I don't even know why he stayed with me. I was awful to him. I had a wife like that. Just kidding. But when I left Planned Parenthood, you know, I became, I mean, we got invested in the word. We, you know, started going to church. We, you know, really recommitted our lives.

And I was really convicted that I needed to allow Doug to become the leader of our home and that I needed to take a step back. And what's been really amazing in that is how the Lord has really raised him up. And I feel like the Lord speaks to me through Doug all the time. You know, and he will confirm things that I'm like, is that really what you want me to do, God? You know, and then God will confirm it through Doug, through his voice.

And I think that's the way that marriage is so. supposed to be. We have things so out of whack in our society today, but that's the way it's supposed to be. You know, men are supposed to be the leaders of our home. And, and they're supposed to be, you know, the spiritual head of your household. If you allow, if you allow your husband to do that, and that's what your husband wants, ladies, trust me. That's what your husband wants. If you allow him to do that, the Lord will bless your home in so many ways. And he will confirm things that you're questioning in your mind through the mouth of your husband. Well, people don't, you know, even when you say that, I know that there are people that

they have a false idea of what that means. This is the problem. We're living in a culture where a wash in lies, you know, whether it's the fact that the baby doesn't feel pain or that this is going to be a wonderful experience for you to get rid of this lump or whatever. Or the idea that a husband leading in a marriage means he's a tyrant or means you give him permission to back. All of this stuff is so dark and confusing. And so it's important for us to talk about this. Folks,

I'm going to continue my conversation with Abby Johnson. The new book is Fierce Mercy. Why you never see bright colors on my back. And why does my appearance seem to have a somber tone? Well, there's a reason for the things that I have on. Folks, I'm talking to Abby Johnson. Just a few minutes left. So, Abby, you've written a number of books now. The one, this one is Fierce Mercy. It sounds extraordinary.

But the book you wrote before this that tells all the stories of, to talk about that for a moment, what's the title of that book? Yeah, it's called The Walls Are Talking. And really, that one came about because we were at a healing retreat for my ministry, and then there were none. And, you know, we get abortion clinic workers out of the abortion industry. and then into a saving relationship with Jesus Christ, we've had 610 workers leave the abortion industry

and come through our organization. Okay, hold on, hold on. Every time somebody says something like that, I just want to say, pause. That is amazing. You've had 610 people who worked in the abortion industry. You've convinced them to leave that industry. Yeah, and seven full-time doctors, which is pretty amazing.

Yeah. So, and then those workers have then gone. gone back and shut down 25 of their former clinics. So, yeah, it's pretty cool. I, this is so, such good news. Yeah, and so we were at, we provide like these healing retreats in them for them. Healing retreats for them. So we were at this healing retreat and we're sitting around telling these stories, you know,

about our times in the clinic. And one of them said, you know, I mean really cool if we just put all of these stories in a book and put it out because I don't think the public understands just how, sinister the abortion industry is. I don't think they under... Well, there's no question that they don't understand. I don't think they understand. They have like an idea or they may think,

maybe this is happening, but they don't really know what's happening. And so I said, you know, I think we can do that. And so that's what we did. So we put all of these stories together. So it's called The Walls in a book. Are Talking. Put it out. And yeah, people can get it on Amazon.

People can get the walls are talking. People can get Fierce Mercy. People can get... What's the book, the first? first book unplanned? Unplanned. Oh, that's the same as the title of the movie. Right.

But the problem with the book versus the film is that Mike Lindell is not in the book. Well, that's true. I need people to be reminded to go to Mypillow.com or my store.com and use the code Eric. Or Abby. And if you watch the film unplanned, we're going to edit that out. Eric. And if you watch the film unplanned, you see Mike Lindel in a bulldozer. and you're going to be reminded, holy guacamole, I need me some more pillows.

Promocode Abby. Promocode. Eric, I think since you're on my program, you need to shut up, right? I've had enough of you, all right? I will not tolerate this from a guest. No, it's kind of funny because, so if you read the book, Mike Lindell is not in it. I just want to warn people, okay, because they can't get enough. You will be disappointed. You're going to disappoint it if you're looking for Mike in the book.

But the book is unplanned. So that was the first book? Yeah. Okay, so unplanned, the walls are talking, and the new one, fierce, mercy. Is this like just out? Yeah, it's just, yeah, on March 1st. That's, yes, that means it's out. It's out.

It's out. It's called fierce mercy. Abby, it's just a joy to talk to you. You're a great encouragement, and it's kind of funny because you have this sense of yourself, like, oh, who am I, did all these terrible things. And that, of course, is the point. Everyone should feel that way. Everyone should know that apart from God, we're not just, you know, nothing.

We're a wreck. We're a mess. We're working for the dark side. But God and His mercy can take that and redeem it. And your story is beautiful. So on behalf of those of us who aren't you, let me thank you for allowing your story to be put out there and for not yanking it. And because it has touched innumerable lives and will continue to do so. So thank you.

And the book is Fierce Mercy. Abby Johnson, great to have you. Thanks so much. Public education has gone off the rails. Parents and teachers have had enough. Watch the groundbreaking new documentary, whose children are they today on salemnow.com. Go to salemnow.com. com.

That's salemnow.