The Eric Metaxas Show - An Encore Presentation Of Or Friend Charlie Kirk

Episode Date: September 20, 2025

Charlie Kirk, founder of Turning Point USA, is in the studio to talk about what he's discovered on President Trump's campaign trail, interviewing people in the crowd, and formulating the concepts in his new book, "The MAGA Doctrine."

Welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show. It's a nutritious smoothie of creamy, fresh yogurt, vanilla protein powder, and a mushy banana. For your mind, drink it all down. It's nummy. I wub, vanilla. I wub, I wop, I wap, I wap, vanilla. Here comes Eric Metaxus. Welcome back.

Folks, I get to talk to my friend, and maybe yours, Ken Fish. Ken, welcome back. Thanks for having me back. Eric, it's good to be with you. Well, I'm not doing you any favors. I like, I enjoy talking to you. Every time I talk to you, I enjoy it. We learn things.

You travel so much, so it gets confusing for me. You have just, now, actually the headline, you're doing in the national area a conference in October. Give us the details on that before we get in talking about all kinds of other stuff. Absolutely. The upcoming conference is October 8 to 11, October 8 to 11. The suburb of Nashville is Franklin, but it's the Nashville area. That'd be the airport you'd use if you're flying in. And we're going to be at Bethel World Outreach Church.

The name of the conference is Illumination, subtitle, Light the World. and we're going to be talking about lighting the world with the light of Jesus, but we're also going to have an interesting theme woven into it that deals with human weakness, sorrow, suffering, and how the light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not overcome it. And so, you know, we're aware that there are people who have challenges in their lives. And while I love to talk about the miraculous works of God, the healings, and more, there is always that group of people who it's not working for them, at least not yet.

And a lot of people do ultimately find breakthroughs and touches from God. So we're going to have some conversation around the challenges of life as well as the victories that we find in the Lord. Okay, before I get into some stuff with you, what is the website for that conference? Yeah, if people want to sign up, they can do so today. at kingdom illumination.org. Singular. Singular. Kingdom illumination. That's right.

Exactly. Dot org. Okay. Kingdomillumillumination.org. Okay, folks, everything is there, so we don't have to repeat it over and over. Kingdomillumination.org. Okay, Ken, I had somebody write into the program recently. You know, we do ask them taxes, people writing their questions. And I interviewed somebody, Beatty Carmichael, who does a lot of the stuff that you do.

He's really systematized this thing of, you know, going through an inventory. He's published a book where you go, you do an inventory in your life. And you go over things and you think, is there something, oh, yeah, maybe there's just somebody who I harbor hatred against or I have to pray a prayer of forgiveness or whatever. And it's the standard idea that I have learned from you and others that we can give place in our lives to the enemy. If there's unforgiveness in my life, I'm providing a landing strip, a legal landing strip for a demonic entity. I'm saying, come on down. You can land right here because there's this unconfessed sin or unforgiveness or whatever it is.

And I think you've talked about this over the decades. I've talked about it. There are people that bristle at that idea. They say, wait a minute, wait a minute. You're saved. The Holy Spirit comes in. You're sealed. It's done.

You're done. That can't happen. Well, you just said, Eric, can't happen. And it seems clear to me that it can happen and does happen. And you have observed that, people that if you ask them, do they believe in Jesus? They absolutely believe in Jesus. They pray. They read the Bible.

Bible, but unbeknownst to them, there is a landing strip. There's a place where they have given access. So that's biblical. But why do you suppose people bristle at that? They kind of act like, no, no, no, once I'm saved, it's over. Like, I'm done. Like, the enemy can't touch me. You know, there's a lot of teaching that has been promulgated through the years.

it's primarily coming from Protestant Calvinist traditions, not exclusively, but primarily, that once you're saved, it's all done, which is what you just said. It's interesting, though, why then would Paul the Apostles say in Ephesians 427, neither give place to the devil? And then he goes on and he says, let him that stole steal no more, but rather let him labor working with his hands, the thing which is good that he may have to give to him who is in need. And let no corrupt communication proceed

from out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edification. I'm reading from the King James, because that's what popped up when I googled it as I began answering your question. And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God. So it seems like Paul is enumerating three places. I don't think this is an exhaustive list, but it's representative. Three places or three means. or three ways by which people can actually give place to the devil. And I think sometimes people think, well, I mean, you're just like, I don't know, it's not like you're opening doors to demons, you're just like giving the devil a foothold.

But the devil does most of his work through his lieutenants, just as God does most of his work through us and angels. And so why would this be different? And so what I've learned through the years is that when there's demonic problems, demons like to attach to sin of some kind. But we need to talk for a second about that. And I'm not going to go into a deep dive here. I'll just kind of skim the tops of the waves. But there's one word for sin in the Bible that means sin that I didn't even know was wrong.

It's like, you know, I was a non-saved person and I got drunk all the time. or I slept with my girlfriend. Well, of course you did, because this is what people do when they're unsafe. You didn't even know it was wrong. When you get saved, you become sensitive to that, and you're like, oh, you shouldn't be doing that. Then there's a second category of sin, which is, I knew darn well this was wrong, but I did it anyway. David would be a good example of this with Bathsheba. He had the Ten Commandments.

He even wrote Psalms talking about how wonderful God's law was, and yet he committed adultery, and then he committed murder. And by the way, there's a third of the Ten Commandments that he violated as well, which is, you shall not covet neither your neighbor's ox nor your neighbor's wife. Well, he apparently was coveting Bathsheba. So David had three strikes, and as we say, you're out. David committed transgression. By the way, transgression can also be failing to do the good, which God commands us to do because, well, we don't feel like it. Or it might be embarrassing, say, to go make amends with somebody.

or whatever. And then there's a third category which deals with generational iniquity. I know a lot of people bristle at this one too, but hey, Ezra prayed about the iniquity of his fathers. Nehemiah prayed about the iniquity of his fathers. Daniel prayed about the iniquity of his fathers, and we could say mothers here also. And so it seems to be a pattern that runs through biblical literature, but it's just often overlooked in our preaching and teaching. It's even in the New Testament because in John 9, there's a man who was born blind,

and the disciples say to Jesus, Master, did this man sin, or did his parents sin, that he would be born blind? They were thinking about this tradition, this teaching that was prominent in Judaism of iniquity coming down to us. Jesus' answer to them is not, what a ridiculous idea.

iniquity doesn't count. Instead, he says, well, actually, in this specific case, neither one happened. That man obviously didn't sin. He was too young to sin when he was born blind. And neither in this case did his parents sin causing his blindness. By the way, parenthetically, yes, his parents did sin because all of sin and fallen short of the glory of God. But whatever sin they committed wasn't the proximate cause of this man's blindness. Jesus goes on to say, in this case, this man's blindness was allowed to happen in order that God's glory would be revealed, and then Jesus heals the blind man. So we have these three categories. I didn't know it was wrong. I knew it was wrong. I did it anyway. And then I inherited something from my forefathers and foremothers. I didn't even know really about it until I became aware of it. Any or all of these could be entry points for people who come into trouble with demonic entities. If you want to know more about the upcoming October 8th through 11th conference in Franklin, Tennessee, go to kingdom illumination.org.

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So we're going to play that today for you. We're going to play it right now from 2020. Here it is. Sometimes what I do does not involve work. I get to talk to people I really want to talk to about stuff that I'm really interested in. Today's one of those days. Charlie Kirk, welcome to the program. Thank you, Eric.

It's such an honor. My friend, just when I talk to you, like I just think, the challenge will be to shut up because we understand each other so well and I just get so excited. But let's be really specific. You have a new book out called The Maga Doctrine. MAGA. Does that stand for anything? Well, here's the big debate.

Well, it says Make America Great again, but is it MAGA or MAGA? Is it MAGA or MAGA? So Judge Metaxis has to break the tie. Yeah. Is it MAGA or MAGA? It's definitely MAGA. Maga? I agree. So like magazine? I think it's maga. Maga. Okay. The MAGA doctrine, the only ideas that will win the future by Charlie Kirk. Now, Charlie, here's the problem. The book, as we speak, is number one on Amazon. So in my flesh, the old man hates you. Because you can't go, you kind of think, like, if we work really hard, maybe we could get it to 0.6. Like, you can't go past one. Number one is like as hard as you can go. I have nowhere to go but down.

All we can do is screw it up. Or treadwater. We've already screwed it up. All right, Charlie, I saw you on Mark Levin last night, and I thought I better not watch this because I will just ask you the same questions he's asking you because he's the great one, Mark Levin. But let me start with like the most banal question. It's pronounced banal. A question that I can ask you is why did you, Charlie Kirk, write this point?

So before I answer it, I want to compliment you because I've been rereading your book on Miracles, and it's re, what's the right we're looking for? It's strengthened my faith. Revivified? Yes, that's exactly right. So I know that you asked me a question about my book, but I first want to compliment your book. So the book on miracles is phenomenal. Well, thank you very much. It's kind of interesting, you know, because you and I, we're in the same business.

We love God. We love America. and we want to spread the good news of Jesus and freedom, which is directly related. They're harmonic with each other. No question. There's no question. We would not have the United States of America, if not for the gospel of Jesus, not for Luther bringing it. You know, all we could go on and on and on.

But the fact of the matter is we care about the same things. And it's an honor for us to get to do that, that we get to do that. And so when you bring up a Miracles book, I think it's a. The challenge is getting these ideas into the mainstream. So there are tons of Americans today who maybe they don't like this president or whatever. But my thinking is if they could hear you and me talk about those issues in a way they would say, you know what? Yes, I do like that. I never heard that before.

So what is your goal specifically in writing this book? Is this your first book? No, it's my third, but it's the first one with a rollout of this level. And, you know, I'll tell you, Eric, I've been so excited to talk to you about this book because there's so much in this book you would understand. Not that other people wouldn't, but it goes a level deeper. Mark Levin might understand. No, of course he does. But so, look, I was, I was, there was a moment that happened 18 months ago where I was watching one of the liberal networks.

And I was, I hit a breaking point where the liberal pundits and prognosticators were telling me what the president believed. And I said they hate the president. And they have contempt for our republic and they have contempt for our founding documents. Why are you telling me what he believes? Because that's not true. Because they were misrepresenting it almost intentionally. Either intentionally or they're doing a lazy form of journalism. And so I asked myself, what is the philosophical basis of the Trump presidency?

Now, mind you, at the time when I began to write this book, we were about two years in. And it was right near the Brett Kavanaugh confirmation hearings that I think was just one of the most important cultural moments in modern political history. no question about that. And right on this program, when I was talking to Franklin Graham, we used the term demonic. Yes. Because I thought to myself, we're not talking about the people that are against Trump. We're talking about there's a spirit that was manifested in that hearing that was so vile and so anti-logic. Yes. And anti, I mean, on a number of levels, that it was actually a frightening moment for the Republic. So you're right, I guess, to start there. Yeah. And so as an extension of that, we had the midterm elections, the Democrats take back the House,

and the Democrats start running for president, and they start to define the Trump doctrine or the Trump ideas for him, so incorrectly and so inaccurately. And I kind of did a landscape analysis of who out there has actually taken a step back and objectively made the case for the Trump presidency in a historical lens. And so I was able, I then went to on kind of a series and a tour of rallies, if you will, of Trump rallies. And I went and talked to the people myself. I didn't do it through the lens of the lens of just calling people. I went to the Trump rallies to people that were front in line waiting 100 hours plus for a chance to see the president of the United States. People that waited through

blizzards and waited through storms and waited through everything you could imagine, heat and cold and everything from Rochester, Minnesota, to Orlando, Florida, the Dallas, Texas. I went there and I listened and I spoke to these people. And what the commonality of them all was, was this. Our country was in managed decline. Everyone knew it. Brilliant. Brilliant. Exactly what it was.

Few people said it. Yes. And this guy came down from metaphorically and literally from his golden palace, if you will, down his golden escalator to put his reputation, his life experience on the line to save a crumbling republic. And I said, that's it. So I took another step back. I said, has this ever been done before? No.

And it's like, yeah, like super rarely. I mean, so this is where you would appreciate it. Maybe King Justinian, maybe. Oh, we're going out. We're going beyond the United States. Oh, yeah, yeah, that's right. I'm not going to say in the history of this country, the answer would be certainly would be no. Would only probably be Lincoln.

Well, no, we're not talking about just simply about the greatness of presidents because would look out Lincoln is, you know, he's Lincoln. But in terms of, you know, when you talk about managed decline, we've never been there before. I mean, the existential crisis of the Civil War, obviously, we're in a similar place. But when you talk about managed decline, I think what Trump did, and I don't mean interrupt, forgive me. But just to make the point is that Trump, what Trump did by being Trump and by saying what he said, he suddenly made all of us realize that the GOP before Trump was a bunch of effectively craven, career bureaucrats, who some of whom we thought, well, they're good guys, they're going to do great things. But compared to his willingness to fight for foundational American values, you start

realizing that the people that I voted for and in many ways, you know, still revere, that they were unwilling to take on the giants that he has taken on. And so the admittance that we were in managed decline was the beginning of his candidacy. a brutal examination of the carnage of the ruling class elites. Bad trade deals. China's ripping us off. We have these stupid endless wars. People are flowing across the border. I said, wow, that only took you 15 seconds.

The diagnosis is basically where we were. But it's staggering, Charlie. We have to stop and understand how staggering this is, because clearly the media is not reporting on this. Even conservative media doesn't quite do it justice. This president, it's kind of like somebody coming into a household, right, and saying, let me look at your books. And they look at the books.

realize that everyone working for you is totally ripping you off. Yes. And need to be fired yesterday. That's correct. And by the way, if you hadn't shown me your books today, tomorrow, you lose the house. And post-Ragan, Republicans were left with almost the lesser of two evil options. And so as a secondary portion of why I wrote the book is the more people from the Reagan Revolution that I interviewed for the book and otherwise, they were so happy with successes of the Reagan Revolution, but a little bit let down with what happened afterwards, which was H.W. Bush exploding the federal bureaucracy, betraying the promises and immigration, raising taxes, and I'm not here to Bush Bash. That's not why I'm here. But we have to be honest

that the philosophy of the Reagan Revolution was government is not the solution, government's the problem. The philosophy of the H.W. Bush administration is we can run government better. And I talk about in the book is I asked people this question, what was the speech H.W. Bush gave after the Berlin wall fell. And the answer is he didn't give a speech because he said he didn't want to rub it in. Okay. That's what's so funny because he, I mean, in my Bonhoeffer book, there were people Which is phenomenal, by the way. I'm not, forgive me, I'm bringing up my book. Translated to 50 different languages.

The only reason I bring it up is because I see the world through the lens of my books, you know, because that's why I've written them. But my point is that there were gentlemen in Germany, gentlemen leaders who, similar to the Bushes, had this sense of noblesse oblige and whatever, much of which was laudable until you were facing the evil of the Nazis. And at that point, they failed, and this is kind of what when you bring up George H.W. Bush, that gentlemanly quality, which is really wonderful, at a moment like that, when it was time to celebrate, to dance on the grave of communism. Yes.

He said he didn't want to rub it in. Well, and so this was a defining moment when I did kind of a introspection of where the Republican Party went wrong, because if there was ever a moment to declare victory, that was the moment. And over the last 30 years, kind of looking at this generationally, post-Ragan, post-HW. Bush, we've now allowed those ideas to be infiltrated into our schools. And so now, forgive me, folks. We're going to be right back lots more with Charlie Kirk. talking to Charlie Kirk Charlie.

Let me shut up so you can continue. You were saying some really important stuff. Well, and so the reason more about the book Maga Doctrine that has now for sale, if anyone wishes to check it out. They're buying this book. It's very kind. Oh, yeah. But the idea of resuscitating a country that is in managed decline is so rare. And I make the argument.

It takes big, bold leaders that sometimes come in unconventional ways. and two in particular that you would appreciate Constantine and King Justinian were did more for the kingdom of Jesus Christ, despite not necessarily being a Christian, Constantine in particular, until his deathbed. I mean, we wouldn't have the Church of the Holy Sepulker. He built the Eastern Rhone Empire, Byzantium, as we know at Constantinople. Christianity in the modern era grew because of Constantine. Now, why was that? You study him.

He was able to make big promises, deliver on them, was a leader that defined. his enemies for who they truly were and was looking forward in a way that said, we can be great again. Now, that word great again is not backwards looking. And that's one of the biggest intentional misinterpretations that the journalist ruling class gives on Trump, that he just wants to bring us back to the most evil parts of American history. And then I asked myself the question, I ask others, I say, well, there were some good things about the 1960s. Divorce rates were a lot lower. Families were much, you know, more tightly knit. Church going attendance was higher. Drug usage was lower. So this kind of indictment that everything before us is incorrect is actually

reminds me of Robespierre. It is like French Revolution style, that everything before us must be a mistake. And we have to throw everything away. Yeah, you were talking about this with Mark Levin. I mean, this is exactly, in other words, Trump has clarified the battle lines in a way that we've never seen before, there's a utopianist, cultural Marxist left that is being super clear about wanting, in effect, as you said, to abolish time, to sort of reinvent everything and to move into this, you know, it's this millennialist, utopianist impulse that has been in, it's inhumanity, and we've seen it in history. The French Revolution is the classic example.

never been clearer and it seems to me that the reason it's so clear is that they have been flushed out of the bushes by the clarity of Donald Trump on the other side. Well, and also part of his MAGA doctrine is outside of just policy. And this is one of the most important points I make in the book. I love tax cuts. I love deregulation. I love Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, 180 circuit court judges, Energy Independence, Embassy in Jerusalem, Golan Heights, Iran Deal, TPP, USMCA, right to try, VA accountability. I love it all. And I could keep going. Largest middle class tax cut in American history. You know, 20 regulations

for everyone that's been put on the books. Phenomenal. However, President Trump looks at the landscape outside of just passing legislation, outside of just pushing judges and says, there are seven mountains of cultural influence. And he says, I'm going to engage in every single one of them. See, that's what's so staggering, and that is what

people aren't getting. Yes. That is what, and it's wonderful that you get it because it's important we communicate this. The book is the MAGA doctrine. I want to be really clear. Please continue. Yeah. And so when the president challenges Hollywood, when the president challenges the media, when the president signs an executive order for free speech rights on college campuses, when the president invites me and other Turning Point USA students and speaks at three of our events in the last year, that's him involving himself in culture. Now, we know from the great late Andrew Breitbart, his most famous quote, which is so true,

politics downstream of culture. Bernie Sanders, after effect of where culture is. President Trump says, I'm not just fighting for the hearts and minds of today. What am I doing to win the cultural battle of tomorrow? And how do we have evidence of this? He's the first American president since Reagan where the left is on defense. The left has been on offense and taking terrain from us post-Ragan. And we have been gentlemen about it, but if we're honest with ourselves, we have been doing nothing but surrendering ground to the cultural left. President Trump says it does not have to be this way. Christians, go forth and be proud of what you believe in. Churches, I have your back. The IRS is not going to investigate you anytime soon. College conservatives, if they punch you in the face, I'm going to defund their school.

You know, people in the media, they're all fake anyway. I stand by you. It is nothing less than staggering. I mean, it is nothing less than staggering. And you have to give it historical perspective because I think a lot of people don't get this because of the nature of the media. But like everything you're saying, just because I'm twice as old as you are, I have some historicals, perspective to say we have never begun to see anything like this. No. This is a moment in our lifetimes that is absolutely sui generis. There is nothing that can compare to it.

And you're framing it beautifully, and I know you obviously do the same in the book. Well, thank you. And part of the argument and part of what you actually just said a word that I focus on in the book, which is moment or movement. Is this going to be a Trump moment that we kind of, that the ruling class is able to kind of say, okay, we did that. Go back in your corner, you rebels. Or is this a Trump movement where the Republican Party is boring for good. They want to go back to unlimited immigration and foolish immigration policies, China appeasement, sending billions of dollars to Iran, turning our back to Israel,

mediocre economic growth in malaise, and a focus on D.C. and an emphasis on the ruling class in Malibu, Manhattan, and Silicon Valley. That's what they want to go back to because that's they're comfortable with. President Trump and the movement he's created is about working class, middle class Americans, people that shower before work and after work, people that go to church, want to build a family, not necessarily just go to the right

cocktail parties in the corners of our country. And I'm happy to expand on it even more. Well, this is just, this is really, really beautiful stuff. Folks, we'll be right back. The book is The MAGA Doctrine. Charlie Kirk is my guest. Hey, folks, it's the Ericman Texas show, talking to

Charlie Kirk. Charlie, have you ever been called Charles Kirk? It's actually my legal name. I assumed your real name is not Charlie. It's Scottish in nature, actually. Charles Kirk. It's Charles Kirk. Which means church, of course. Oh, I know. I know. Charlie, Charlemagne. Your book is called the Maga Doctrine, but we're talking about how this is likely a movement, not a moment. It does seem to me that something, and I will be bold to say that God has used this president and has his hand on this. president. I completely agree. Obviously, in spite of the president's previous failings or current failing, that's completely another issue. Go ahead. Yeah. Well, so I speak at churches quite often across the country and the project we're doing at Liberty University, Falkirk Center, which Jerry Falwell Jr. has an emphasis on this and I want to give a shout out to our great friends at Liberty University. The only college, I put my name behind. They do phenomenal work. The Falkirk Center, Fallen Kirk,

You know, it's got the good Scottish roots, right? It is amazing to me that somebody who didn't go to college has his name, that's you, Kirk, on a center at a great college in America, and you're so young. So be careful because you might peak too soon. Trust me, I know. If you keep your eyes on Jesus, you'll be fine. God willing. But the Fall Kirk Center is very exciting. Jenna Ellis was telling me about this.

She's wonderful. And you know I'm a huge fan of Liberty, huge. I just, I can't say enough. Yes. And so when I speak at these churches, sometimes I'll get questions from well-meaning Christians, and they'll say, Charlie,

I don't like Donald Trump's tone. I don't like his demeanor. Yeah. I'd say, okay, let's take a step backwards to one of my favorite biblical stories, the story of Samson. There's nothing that I can teach in Sunday school about the story of Samson.

The Lord came to him in a prostitute's bed twice. He lived a sin-filled life where he turned his back on God, and God called him to do one thing to fight the fights that the Israelites were not willing to fight. Take the jawbone of a donkey and go fight a thousand Philistines. And I look at, you can't say donkey on this program. You have to say ask. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. We're just making sure. Yeah, it's a family program. Yeah, exactly, right. I was trying to be politically correct. Right, right. In Paul's letter in Hebrews, he's in the famous Hall of Faith. And we look at the story of Samson, known for his hair, Donald Trump known for his hair, maybe some similarities in similarity.

there, I don't know. Maybe not. Maybe, maybe not. However, why is the story of Samson instructive? Maybe because he was willing to do the fight that other people were not willing to do. And the Bible is filled with stories like that, but I love that story the most because nothing in his journey, nothing in the brutality of what he did against the enemies of God's chosen people is something that is nice to talk about necessarily in church.

Isn't that funny, though? I actually find it, you know, this always happens to me. I find something amazing and then I'm further amazed by the fact that I've not heard it, before. Like the idea that no one until now, until you, has brought up Samson, because clearly, as you're saying, there's nothing laudable about Samson's... I can't teach that. I mean, can you imagine if you teach kids, you say, by the way, he was in a prostitutes bed. Now, we know that's bad, but we're saying it's in scripture. He was in a prostitutes bed. Because God, I mean, this is the thing. This is about, you know, and I learned this from Bonhofer, the incarnational

quality of God. He comes into our filth. Yes. He comes into our filth. He comes into our our dirt and our mess and our brokenness and our sin because he loves us. That's exactly right. And it's an amazing, I mean, it's hard to properly understand. Luther also, I mean, Luther more than anybody, explains this. And for a lot of people, especially people who are, I would say, theologically fussy or Phariseical and kind of obsessed with personal holiness, this is anathema to them, just as Jesus was anathema to the Pharisees.

I mean, to do some of the things he did was deeply disturbing. And I think that it really, I would say Trump forces us to reexamine our theology. And the case of Samson is just brilliant. Thank you for bringing that up. Thank you. And to kind of close the point, though, you know, Paul would not have put Samson in the letter to Hebrews in the Hall of Faith if there was not something heroic and something that was something that Christians can learn from there. And the end of the Samson story is self-sacrifice. the ending of the story of Samson

is that God give me one more chance to defeat the enemies I know I'm going down with them You don't think Trump is going to bring the Supreme Court down on his head No I'm not I'm not saying that Trump's story is going to end in that capacity But I think there Rutherford Ginsburg goes out

There's going to be a crowd there He's going to be in the middle pushing against the pillars It can happen God give me one more But the point being is that Samson sacrificed a lot for the kingdom of God And for God's chosen people And so has President Trump

However God calls people to sometimes fight the fights that God's chosen people are not always willing to fight. But let me hit pause. Why? To shame us. That's exactly right. God does this over and over in history. When God said, I'm going to bring this gospel in my Messiah to the Jew first, right? He says, but if you are slow to move on this, I will bring it to the Gentiles to shame you. you to make you jealous. And that's what God does this over. Yes.

Over. He says, I'm going to, I'm going to pick up the worst of the worst, the thrice married, philandering, billionaire, new to get to show you what I can do through anyone. Yes. And I'm not here to bash previous Republican presidents. That's my job. But I will say, why did the three-time married, previous pro-choice, planned parenthood donating New York. billionaire, front-page playboy magazine, be the first president to speak at the March for Life. Amen. Why would George Job? I'm not here at Bush Bash. I think he's a very, he's a gentleman.

That's my job. I think he's a gentleman. I love the Bush's, but your point is so clearly true. You ask yourself this question over and over. Why would it be that guy? Why does it be that guy? And part of it, spiritually speaking, is that God says, I'm going to show you, he does it over and over through history. You mentioned Samson, but there are innumerable cases of him choosing the last, the worst. That's correct. David, when David was chosen among all his brothers, it's like, what about him? And Joseph could be very similar to, yes. Over and over and over again, that's God's M.O. Yeah, and I challenge Christians, I say, so let me, let me be perfect. What I ask people, what do you want in a leader? And they say, well, I want the leader to be a role

model. I say, really, isn't that what parents are for, first and foremost? Never growing up did my father say, you know, that bush, I want you to be like that guy. And I'm not going to, you know, say every single piece is an excuse for that behavior, but role models start in the proximity to the children. This leftist narrative that somehow the people that we put in positions of power are, we should have this upward gaze. We've got to go to another break here, but I just want to say, like, there is no doubt that Obama is a good father and a good husband, but he allowed millions of babies to be butchered in the womb. Ended discussion. He ended traditional marriages.

I mean, it goes on and on, on. Do we not bring that up? We'll be right back with Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk. You know, Charlie, it's a problem talking to you because even if I weren't over-caffeinated, which I obviously am talking. to you. It's like coffee. I get very excited. You're sharing some things that are really important. So let me get out of the way once more and say, let's just keep going. What is in this book, the Maga Doctrine? Well, so a couple things. It lays out where I think the conservative movement

in the Republican Party need to go over the next hundred years, the next century, and to learn from the mistakes post-Ragan of how we allowed the technocrats to take over the Republican Party. President Trump has restored a voice and dignity to forgotten America that the Republican Party had lost, post the what they call Reagan Democrats are now Trump Republicans, and they should stay that way. As I mentioned, the people that shower before work and after work, the people that work with their hands, the carpenters, HVAC, the pipe fitters, police officers, firefighters, we should not become a snobbish elitist party that only tries to win, you know, the approval of the ruling class newspapers. I think that's such an important lesson. Well, no, that's, and this is, this is so huge what you're saying.

I mean, it's not like it hasn't been said before, but the point is that this is a tipping point in culture. And when I say in culture, this is without any question and without any pride on our own parts personally, but this is the greatest nation in the history of the world. So a tipping point in this culture is a huge historical tipping point. That's exactly right. And so we're at a precipice right now as a couple. country. And we have a leader that I don't think we deserve that fights so courageously and is so unafraid to challenge the left on their own terrain. And so he comes, he's probably more than anything else. His first gift to our country is being the most successful anti-leftist weapon we've ever

seen. And they don't know how to deal with them. They can't categorize him. Well, he makes their heads explode. Literally. Almost literally. Yeah, almost literally. And he's able to put them on defense, as I've mentioned. And I believe that Russia, China, and Iran are threats to the United States. They pale in comparison to the threat of what the left in this country are doing right now on our schools and our universities. There is no question of that. And so he recognizes that. And so in the book also, I lay out the successes of the administration. I think I make a persuasive argument for even people in the middle to support him and to get behind him. So if you're looking for a piece of literature to give to people that may be kind of on the fence,

I have a whole chapter on religious liberty and a whole chapter on why I believe Christian should be in support of him. And look, he's brought back a fervent support of ethical monotheism, which I think has been just destroyed under the secular left and the quiet right. And I could go on even further. But he's been unafraid. The billionaire businessman from Manhattan, as we talked about three times married, former cover of Playboy magazine, has been more unafraid to embrace people of faith than any other president than I've ever seen. He doesn't care what they write about him. He doesn't care about what they say about him. He's prayed over almost daily by the vice president and other people around him.

He has record support in the evangelical community. And the media, they're the ones that are the moral pietists. And they say, well, how come the evangelicals who say they're all for good behavior like this guy? And the evangelicals say, well, finally there's someone who's taking that donkey bone, that donkey jaw and finally slaying our enemies for us because we've been losing. We've been losing for 30 years. Well, and again, people make it sound like, oh, oh, I get it. So you're all about power.

And the fact of the matter is that's sniping. And this kind of sniping, it's all the radical left has. They basically – Jesus said this generation is like the children in the marketplace. You know, you say, we played the pipe and you did not dance. We sang a dirge and you did not mourn. No matter what Trump does or says they will snipe. And, you know, that's – we're out of time. And we'll be back with more Charlie Kirk in the next hour.