The Eric Metaxas Show - Andrew McDiarmid

Episode Date: January 4, 2023

Andrew McDiarmid of Discovery.org talks about his New York Post article examining our distraction and attachment to gadgets and what to replace that habit with during this brand-new year.

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mataxis show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metaxas. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Taxis show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Happy New Year. Happy New Year. Happy New Year. Hey, Albin. Today is the first day of the rest of our lives. I just want to. I just wanted to start on a sad note. Yeah, it's the first day of the end. No, we are here in the studio.

It's exciting to be back in the studio. It is. We have a lot. Oh, my gosh. I always say this, but I guess it's true. We've got a lot to talk about. Number one, let me announce that in a few minutes we're talking to Andrew McDermott, but it's spelled the Scottish way. I'll spell it later.

But he wrote an article on technology and our phones and New Year's resolutions on the post. It appeared in New York Post two days ago. He's a fellow at Discovery Institute, kind of a big deal. He also has a podcast called Simply Scottish, and he did an interview with Andrew Wallace about the great film Braveheart. We'll be talking to him about that. But in hour two, I guess in hour one, we're going to talk to him. Then we're going to air a conversation that we did just before the holidays

about something kind of, it's a dark issue, kind of religious, cultic, religious abuse, not satanic ritual abuse, which is really dark. But that's Patrick Knapp. Right. So we're going to talk to him in hour two for the first few segments, but then we're going to return to our conversation, a really wonderful conversation with Andrew McDermott,

just excited that we have him at the end of hour two. Okay. I have several announcements. to make. Yes. The first one, I'm just going to mention this, then we'll get back to it, but this is crazy. And I still can't get over this. Yesterday, I woke up, which has never happened before.

No, I woke up and I got a text message from our friend Roger Stone. Yeah. Now, people know Roger Stone, he's been on this program. In fact, tomorrow, I think we're going to re-air the conversation that I did with him some weeks ago, which was December 9th, I think, because it's so amazing. But we've become friends, and he is a clothes maven. He is an expert, genuine, genuine expert on men's fashion. When I say expert, I mean he's an encyclopedia. He's an expert. And when we first met in person, this is a few years ago. I think I was wearing the same jacket

that I'm wearing now, probably. And he marveled at the jacket. He goes, oh, that's a blah, blah, blah, but he's telling me about why it's so great. And he was impressed with how I was dressed. And coming from somebody like Roger, I thought, my goodness, that's really impressive. You know, I buy much of my clothes, like from eBay

or Etsy or something. You know, I don't, I don't want people to think that I can just, like, you know, go into one of these stores and be fed. But he tells me, he starts sharing with me like where he gets his stuff and whatever it is. So he doesn't like spend top dollar either, but we got a little conversation. Well, anyway, when he was back here on December 9th, we got the conversation continued and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Long story short, yesterday, I wake up and I get this text message from Roger Stone.

And he sends me a link. He, this is incredible. some people remember the famous Morton Blackwell would put out a best dressed list of the year. Yes. Roger took that list over when Morton Blackwell died. And so Roger has been doing a best dress, best and worst dress of the year. I didn't know this or whatever. So he sends me a link to his new 2022. So this is the last year, the best and worst dress of the year.

And then he sends me another text that says, you made it. And I click on the link. And ladies and gentlemen, I kid you not. I am listed by Roger Stone as one of the best dressed men of the year. I'm going to be dining off of that for the rest of my life. Except just keep in mind that was 2022. So it's already old news.

I'm already starting to look shabby. Yeah, yeah. You see, that's the problem. You get a thing like this, and now you step out of the house and you're thinking, people are going to judge me, and they're going to say, he's not that, well, look at him. All I can say, and you told me this in the makeup room downstairs, I said, somewhere in your youth or childhood, you must have done something good. That's right.

And that's why I'm on the list. But I still cannot, I was laughing and laughing and just dying at this, at the whole idea of it. But I actually sent out an email today. because I thought I've got to point people to this, because it's actually quite interesting. The whole idea is interesting, and of course my mention on it is interesting. But I want to talk a little bit more about this in a moment. By the way, I made K-March's list, so there. See, so we're even.

But I want to mention Pope Benedict passed away. That's right. I've got to tell you, boy, oh boy, Pope John Paul, the second was a great, great man. Pope Benedict was a great man. For the life of me, I cannot begin to fathom why he left

and put things in the hands of the sloppily Protestant Francis. We won't get into that, but just want to mark the passing of the great, great Pope Benedict 16th. We should also mention, Albin, two other things.

We are extended or I should say CSI, Christian Solidarity International, told us they wanted to extend our campaign to free slaves in the Sudan. Now, you know we were talking about this through the Christmas season, but this is an opportunity. Ladies and gentlemen, I don't know if you haven't heard about this, maybe you're listening to the show for the first time. Sometimes something comes along and you think, I got to do this. I don't know what it is, but it's almost like there's no pure example of God than the end. idea that you would do something, you get nothing back. You are able freely to bless, dramatically bless the life of someone on the other side of the world. In Sudan, as we know,

radical Muslims have enslaved, mostly Christians. This is reality today. And we, through CSI, are able to free these slaves. Sounds like hyperbole. If you've listened to the program, We've done a number of interviews on this, so you can understand the details. We won't go into it now. But I want to tell you, if you haven't done this, it's obviously it's tax deductible. $250 is the amount that frees a slave and sets them up in a life of freedom. Many people can't give that. It doesn't matter, whatever you can give.

If you can do that spectacular, make that a New Year's gift to a friend or to a relative, whatever you can give. Some people can give a lot more. But it's just one of these glorious opportunities. And I want to encourage you to go to metaxis talk.com. take advantage of this, that we just have a couple weeks left. This is a very, very big deal. I don't know how to state it. I mean, I don't know how else to state it. It sounds like I'm overstating it. I don't mean to, but go to metaxis talk.com. We also should mention if you go to SalemNow.com, the film Super Spreader. Albin, you just saw it for the third time. I saw Super Spreader for the third time.

You know, people talk about, oh, Christian movies or Christian documentaries. No, this is really, really, really good. Sean Foyt did such a great job. We showed it to our in-laws in Texas over the Christmas holidays. Everybody just loved it. And the third time, I'm like ready to see it a fourth time. So you have to go to SalemNow.com super spreader. Well, there you go. Great, great, great.

Okay. So I've got to mention, obviously, if you go to SalemNow.com, the four shows that we did. You know, like Johnny Carson style, it's there. It's free. SalemNow.com, Albert and I star in The Talk Show, starring Eric Metaxis. You got to check it out. Honestly, check it out and email us because we'd love your thoughts.

Now, before we go to our guest, I just want to say again, so Suzanne and I are reading what Roger Stone writes in the best dressed list, which I sent out and I put on social media and stuff. But it would give you the impression that I'm some like Wolfby guy that's spending money on Domenico Spano suits, which trust me, ladies and gentlemen, not going to happen. In fact, when I finally had 10 cents in my pocket. when the Bonhofer book came out, I said, I've been like deferring, buying anything for so long. I need to get some clothes.

And I happen to become friends with the great Domenico Spano, Mimo. I write about it in the email. And he let me buy suits from him that are normally a zillion dollars at his cost because he's a friend. So I got, I think, three or four pieces of clothing from him, which I plan to wear for the rest of my life. And it's on the basis of that that Roger Stone included me in the list. Anyway, there's pictures and stuff. It's just, it's insane. It's true.

I get my clothes off of eBay. Look, look. Look at that. It's threadbare. Anyway, stick around. In case you haven't been paying attention, the Biden administration has caused a financial crisis, and they have no clue how to fix it.

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For every purchase of longevity formula, you'll receive a free bottle of Paw Maid's hip and joint formula too. To claim your offer, go to pawmaid.com slash Eric or call toll-free 833-Paw-M-Aid. That's P-A-W-M-A-D-E dot com slash Eric or call 833-Paw-Made. Hey there, folks. Happy New Year. We've already said that, but we'll say it again and again and again. In fact, we may even begin saying it a year from now again and a year after that. We are talking initially now about an article that was in the New York Post. I have as my guest, Andrew McDermott, spelled a little different than you would think. To talk about an article that he has written. that appeared in the New York Post. And this is something that's been on my heart, as we evangelical Christians say, we have these phrases that we use.

It's been on my heart for a long time. I've been thinking about this for a long time. I've never written about it, but I was thrilled that Andrew McDermott had written about it. He is a senior fellow with the Discovery Institute. You know what a big fan I am of the Discovery Institute in Seattle. We've had so many Discovery Institute folks speak at Socrates he's in the city over the years, not least Stephen Meyer and so many others. I will not mention

them now. But right now we have Andrew McDermott. Welcome to the program. Thank you, Eric. Thanks for having me. Now, you're originally from Scotland. I am. A wee country across the ocean. Gazenheit. I'm sorry, what? You can't say you've got to say that again. I like that. Yeah, the wee country across the ocean. The weak country across the ocean. And that might be better than Mel Gibson's accent and Braveheart. Something like that.

Yeah. Well, I want to talk to you about Braveheart. I want to talk you about Randall Wallace, whom I've had the privilege of meeting, who spoke to you on your podcast about Braveheart and things Scottish. But first I want to talk to you about this article you've written about technology that appeared in the New York Post a couple of days ago. If people want to find it and they can't spell your name, what is the title of the piece?

The title, they gave a title such as, you know, here's the only New Year resolution you ought to make, colon experts. So New Year's resolution should find it. Okay. And it has to do with something that I mentioned has been on my mind and heart for a long time, is people's, it has struck me before I encountered you and you were proof of this. It always struck me that if we can fill every moment of our time with some distraction, it prevents us from thinking more deeply. That seems obvious, but we live in a culture that is addicted to distraction,

addicted now to these screens, to these phones where the universe is at our fingertips, and most of us would think, oh, that's a great thing. And in some ways it is, but in some ways it seems to me it's a terrible thing. So what do you say, sir, in your article on this subject that appeared in the New York Post two days ago? Yeah, you know, when you do bring the whole world into your pocket, that's a real temptation. That's a blessing in some ways. But it can also be a curse if we are not a tech boss. one of one of the things I'm trying to do is help people

be a tech boss in their life keep that tech in check a tech what a tech boss boss boss B-O-S-S yeah you mean to be in charge you're the boss you're in charge of the tech the tech is not in charge of you correct yeah and neither is a big tech and that's that's sort of how I encourage people but Eric it's a great question and it's it's definitely something that the the the folks I worked with at the Post thought it would be good to start the year off with. You know, just this idea of thinking.

We don't really know what we're missing anymore. We're living very reflexively as opposed to reflectively, you know, where it's kind of knee-jerk reactions. There's not much conscious thought going on. And we do need to rein in and be more in touch with that inner life again. As you know, James Allen's 1913 book, As a Man Thinketh, he says, says, man is literally what he thinks. His character is the complete sum of all his thoughts. So, who are we today? Who are we amongst all our gadgets? We're so much closer to the world's information and all the people that we could have access to, but who are we? And as you're fond of

reminding people, you know, the Socrates saying, you know, the life unexamined is hardly worth living. And that's what I want to. You're getting to the issue, of course, of the difference. And this is at the heart of the problem with the so-called Enlightenment project going back several centuries now, is that we cannot confuse knowledge or information with wisdom. We cannot confuse intelligence with wisdom. You can be tremendously intelligent. You can be tremendously knowledgeable. You can be tremendously educated and a fool.

And this is a distinction that is rarely. made. And so it seems to me, I mean, I remember Bill Clinton talking about, oh, we've got to get a laptop and every kid has to get a laptop. And I thought, well, that's a nice idea, but it doesn't solve the deeper issue of what you do with the information and the technology. Will you have the resources and the wisdom to deal with it? Because when you're talking about technology and information and Google, it cannot give you wisdom. And so it does seem to me that, you know, that we're training ourselves to be shallow and actually foolish or to be stupid, not to think more deeply.

And your article, unfortunately, seems to prove what I've been fearing. Indeed, Eric, you're right. Yeah, this is a problem, especially for young people. But really, we were young once. We're now in the digital age. So it's affecting all ages, everyone who uses these gadgets. You know, I came across this study recently. This was a study by researchers in Japan and England.

And they recognized that in the scientific literature, there's a lot about human thinking, a lot of research done, but not so much on our thoughts about thinking. And they wanted to remedy that. So they did a study that encompassed six different experiments with participants in Japan and England, and what they wanted to do was study our thinking on thinking. And it was quite interesting.

They had participants come into a quiet room. Before they went in, they were asked, how do you feel about sitting and doing nothing else for 20 minutes? And then they actually asked them to do it. They left their belongings behind, no smartphone, no watch. They couldn't get up and eat or walk around or sleep. All they could do was sit and think. And then they measured how they felt about the experience afterwards.

And what they found was a significant increase in interest, enjoyment and engagement and less boredom amongst the participants than they thought they were going to experience the participants, that is. So they were really studying our perceptions of thinking in the digital age and how we might proactively tend to avoid that experience, thinking it's going to be boring, thinking it's going to be useless. And they found that it's actually very interesting for people to just sit there and do some of this. I knew eventually there would be a backlash. In other words, for years now, I've been waiting

for someone to say something like what you're saying and to begin dealing with what we've not dealt with. In other words, it seems to me that at some point, common sense people would say, you know what, I need to fast from this addictive thing. I need to find a way in my life to carve out pure time where I'm not distracted or tempted to be distracted. And so I guess practically speaking, if someone like our friends Michael Medved or Dennis Prager or others, they have a Sabbath because serious Orthodox Jews have a Sabbath, they take it very seriously. Most people do not. Most people just go from day to day to day to day. They don't have these kinds of seasons or these kinds of Sabbath rest.

So I guess practically, what are some ways we can begin dealing with this problem? Yeah, Eric, that's a good point. If you don't have a Sabbath, what are you going to do? You're just going day to day, moving into the next one. And you can really feel it mentally and physically and spiritually when you're doing that. It's just getting up every day and doing what you're doing. you're doing and there really is no let up. There's no, there's no coming away from these gadgets that connect us to all this information. And so we really do need a Sabbath. And if you don't take a

whole day, if that's not your cup of tea, you can at least start building in sessions of thinking. Times when you put your phone aside, not even in your pocket, but just in the next room, in a bag somewhere, turn it off. Just get that away from you so you can start to turn inward. And I recognize to people, you know, quite a few things, actually. Take back the first and last hour of your day. Those hours belong to you and to your maker. And so, you know, don't turn it on right away. And believe it or not, that's a hard thing to do,

not touch your phone for the first hour of the day. And I also recommend it for the last hour. You know, those are precious moments that you can do some thinking, do some reflecting, do some thinking about your near and far future. And just turn inward so that you can outward experience a better. There's so much to explore here. Folks, I'm talking to Andrew McDermott.

It's spelled D-I-A-R-M-I-D. M-C-D-A-R-M-I-D. Andrew McDermott with the Discovery Institute. We'll be right back. Our annual mission to Free Slaves and Sudan, along with our partner Christian Solidarity International, is making great progress. We're almost to our goal of giving freedom to more than 600

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But it's spelled the Scottish way. D-I-A-R-M-I-D. And Andrew, you're with the Discovery Institute. You have an article in the New York Post that just appeared, if people want to find it, about how we've become addicted effectively to our phones. And what I was going to say, there are several things. First of all, you know, I feel a lot of people use their phones for everything. And one of the ways, practically, that I think we can deal with this,

is not to do everything on your phone. In other words, not to, a lot of people read the Bible on their phone. And I would say, you know, it's great to have it there if you're on a bus or someplace and you can't. But maybe if you read your Bible, if you're a Bible reader, read it in a book. Use the book in the morning. Or there are things kind of like that that we can do because I think part of it is this visceral addiction we have to go to this thing, this thing, this phone, whatever it is, and that there are many things we can do that we don't need to use the phone for.

But what are other ways that you think practically people can deal with what is clearly as widespread a problem as there is? Yes, Eric, great points. Yeah, and you're right. There are things we can do to mitigate our desire to be holding. our sleek smartphone and iPad and even laptops, you know, as much as we do. But the smartphone is definitely the biggie

because it can be kept in our pocket. It's right next to us. It's an extension of ourselves. And one way to stop that or to reduce it is to do less on it. Yes, so I would definitely advocate that. It's never sat well with me that we can have the Bible on our smartphone.

It really hasn't. And I'm somebody who has tapped into it at times. just like all of us. You know, it's there, it's convenient, but it just hasn't sit with them out well with me somehow. And I'm definitely an advocate of picking up the paper Bible and just getting your nose into it, you know, something that's not just an app.

It's sort of an insult to God to relegate the Bible to an app. But I once, you know, took stock of all the apps I had on my phone. This must have been a year or two ago. I had 391 apps, Eric. And of those, only 20, were being used for any measurable time frame within the last week of my life when I did this. And so that right there tells me I can delete 90% of the apps, pick only a few things, as you say, to do with your phone and leave the rest to other ways of doing it.

I was thinking that I do a lot of thinking about thinking. And of course, Aristotle thought that God was thinking thought. Aristotle was mistaken. But thinking about thought has led me to think that we can often, you know, and need to trick ourselves into thinking. And one of the ways we can do that is through exercise, through doing something physical, or through listening to music, because on some level you're busy, you are distracted, but it frees your mind to drift and to go places.

that it can't if you just seated down looking at a phone. So if you're running or you're exercising, you're involved in some kind of sport, it's more difficult. And it gives you enough distractions so that your brain can drift. But I think we have to figure out ways to do that. For some people, it's gardening or kayaking. I don't know what it is that people do,

but to figure out ways so that you can at least daily, free your mind to wonder. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, and you're right. Take your nose out of the screen, pick a few things that you like to do, and that will give your mind and your body an excuse to start thinking. Yeah, you'll do it almost automatically.

Something that you don't have to be staring at, you know. So in general, yeah, just pull yourself out of the screens, give yourself 20 minutes a day or more, and do something that allows for your mind to wander. And Eric, that actually brings me to the five different types of thinking that this study actually looked at. If people don't realize there's benefit to free thinking, to just thinking, they're not going to do it.

That was the takeaway of the study. And so we kind of went over the different types of thinking, the study did, and it's quite amazing. You know, daydreaming. We think of that as something, oh, wake up, you know, hello McFly, you know, it's gotten a bad rap, but it's actually a good thing to do. It can help us alternate between fantasy and reality,

which is better than going and living it out, all of our thoughts and ideas. We get to kind of alternate in that space. It can help us facilitate change and makes life bearable as well at any age. Mind wandering is another type of thinking, and that's that mental space, Eric, where we can find some pretty awesome thoughts

if we give herself the opportunity. That's where you're going to get the creativity, the juices flowing, the eureka moments will come. That's the inventiveness. That's the space. It's your own mental space. And it's just letting your mind wander, letting your brain have a storm, if you will. There's also episodic future thinking, which is just what it sounds like, simulating mental futures. It's good to think about your past.

You get that continuity, but you can also think about the future. So there's just different ways of thinking. Do you write about these in this article? Where can people find these various modes of thinking that you're describing right now? Yeah, I do mention some of them in the article, absolutely. And then the paper itself is called Thinking About Thinking. If you search in, I don't know, Google Scholar, that will come up. It's called Thinking about Thinking.

All right. Well, we're going to go to a break. Folks, I'm talking to Andrew McDermott, spelled M-C-D-I-A-R, M-I-D. This is the Erkimataxis show, which is not spelled that way. We'll be right back. It's hard to grasp why anyone would keep voting for record inflation, skyrocketing crime, and an open border. Likewise, why would anyone keep funding the left by sticking with the big carriers? Patriot Mobile is America's only Christian conservative wireless provider, and they want to make it easy for you to try their service. Give them 60 days to show you why I trust them.

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I'm talking to a new friend from the Discovery Institute, with which you must be familiar, the Discovery Institute in Seattle. I'm going to be visiting with them at the end of this month with John Zmirak. But we are talking today with Andrew McDermott, who is talking about thinking about thinking. And a new article in New York Post. So you mention the theologian philosopher, Jacques Elul. Some people are familiar with Elul, E-L-L-U-L. What does he have to say on this subject? What did he have to say? Well, Eric, what a gift it was to discover Elul's work. He was a French sociologist,

theologian, and philosopher of technology before that was even cool. He was writing in the mid-20th century on a philosophy called Technique. And I'll go into that in a second, but let me share some of his quotes. He wrote whole books on how he saw the technological society shaping humanity. And then he wrote books on the answer. You know, he saw Christians in particular as standing uniquely at the intersection of this material world and the eternal world. So he saw Christians not sitting on the sidelines on this debate over technology, but coming right in and saying, look, we can we can understand the material world and the eternal world, okay, and he thought it was our unique ability as Christ's followers to affirm our freedom in the technological society and help others to do the

same. Al-Lul said the denizen of the technological state of the future will have everything his heart ever desired, except, of course, his freedom. And he also said that when we become conscious of that which determines our life, we attain the highest degree of freedom. So you can imagine, as I read his 1954 book, The Technological Society, I was eating this stuff up because he talks about a concept called Technique, which in centuries past has been nothing special. It's just the way that artisans and workers honed their crafts and their tools to do their work. But, Eric, when technique became modern and became more associated with instruments rather than the user or of the instrument and more associated with efficiency rather than beauty and aesthetics

and purpose, it started to change humanity, particularly when large technology companies are controlling this technique. And there's lots of different examples that I can give you, and you can think of a ton yourself. Big Tech now dictates the way that we connect to information with other people, how we entertain ourselves, how we get news, right? And in small, almost indistinguishable ways, they are shaping our access to that. They're shaping the type of content they want us to get, think Google, right, and manipulating the algorithm in the ways they want to. And they're just in control of how we

access this information. No one could have envisioned that we would ever give so much power to so few over us. No one could have envisioned it, and of course, you don't do it consciously. You make small compromises, small decisions. Oh, that's more convenient. Yes, that's more convenient. Yes, that's more convenient.

Yes, that's easier. And over time, as you're saying, and as we've been seeing particularly recently, it's a kind of waking nightmare when you realize that you have given over parts of your soul and parts of your will, your volition, it's gone, and you are now being, whether you know it or don't, controlled, it's an extraordinary moment in human history

that we now have the ability to be controlled or to, in other words, before we had a globalist society, before the Internet, before these kinds of technologies, these things were simply impossible, but today they've become possible. Correct. Yeah, and it's little things, you know, but the little things add up, and they're very purposeful, Eric, in the little changes that they make. We're talking, you know, Netflix and how it sets the next thing to play automatically, right? It takes the ability away for us to let the credits

roll and think to ourselves, do I have the time? Should I be watching something else, or should I do something like sleep or spend time with my family or do my homework, right? It's a little tiny thing, and sure, you can go into the settings and turn it off, but by default, it's there, right? It's also the iPhone. Remember the iPhone used to have a home button, right? You could come right back to home by pressing that button. Well, they took the button away. So now we've got to interact with our screen just a little differently, right? Very tiny thing, but it's, it's again, shaping us and guiding us in the way that they would have us interact with their products. I hate to say it, but There's a big thing as well, the pregnant man emoji, Eric.

Do you remember it was actually Apple that did that? They quietly loaded the pregnant man emoji onto millions of iPhones, right? They didn't ask us permission because ultimately you have to upgrade with iPhone. You know, there's really no Apple doesn't let you not keep up with the Joneses. And so there it was, the pregnant man emoji. If you wanted to keep your phone in good order, there it is sitting there waiting for you to use. You know, that's a small thing, but it's also. a huge thing. So there's many, many

different examples of this technique. How big tech is shaping us. And at the end of the day, Eric, we just cannot trust companies with different values and visions than our own. Well, that's putting it very mildly. I think we have to understand that that, listen, some of these folks

are being led by greed and self-interest, and we understand that. And we have to be wary of that. But they now have tremendous power. So they say, Well, we can improve things if we change this or change this. They can do tremendous things like that. But also, we have to be clear that the Chinese Communist Party, for example, via TikTok and Zoom and other things,

they actually are explicitly nefarious in the sense that they don't merely care about the bottom line and their shareholders. They care about accruing power in the world. and if they can use technology to do that, there is absolutely nothing stopping them. They don't have scruples. Unfortunately, the folks at Apple and Google and those places also don't really seem to have scruples. So as much as I'm an advocate of the free market, to have a free market without virtue, without people who understand there's good and evil, and just because we can do something doesn't mean we ought to do something.

we're really facing that in a new way. We'll be back, folks, a final segment with Andrew McDermott. Again, he's at the Discovery Institute. In the few minutes we have left, I want to talk to him about Randall Wallace and the film Braveheart. This is the Eric Metaxus show. You can find us. You can find me at Ericmetaxis.com. Folks, I'm talking to Andrew McDermott with the Discovery Institute.

We're talking about technology. But before we go, Andrew, you're a... from Scotland and you you've been doing you said a podcast for low these 23 or so years about Scotland I guess

which is what brings you to speak to Randall Wallace who wrote the film Braveheart so tell us about that conversation yeah yeah well you know I came to Scotland in 1990 at the tender age of 11 and I

from Edinburgh, Scotland's capital city, and I moved to South Texas, of all places, and got to enjoy the sunshine and the mosquitoes and the cheap living. But it was an adjustment. And as I was making that adjustment in 1995, Randall Wallace's film that he wrote, Braveheart, hid the big screen. And I, you know, for the first time got to see Scotland and Scottish history come to life in a way I had never experienced. And, I mean, tears pouring down my cheeks, you know, I was seeing, William Wallace and the story of Scotland's Fight for Independence for the first time. And it truly changed my life.

It ignited a fire on me that eventually led to me getting an opportunity to do a radio show called Simply Scottish on public radio. And at its peak, it's aired in various states and in Canada and Australia. And then we got it online in the advent of podcasting. So from 2011 on, I've been, again,

promoting culture and Scottish music. And people enjoy it. You know, there's a special place for Scotland in the collective mind and heart. And so it was awesome to catch up with Randall Wallace recently and thank him for impacting me so much. And it was rather surprising, Eric, that he said it impacted him just as much. A Braveheart actually wrote him instead of the other way around. And so he had some interesting things to share about that. We talked about a lot of things, though, not just the movie.

his illustrious career in Hollywood films, but also some surprising things, including how God is a master storyteller, watching us and seeing our whole story, not just parts of it. And we also talked about freedom, which you know, Eric, it's a big thing in the movie Braveheart.

Well, I have to say, I had the privilege of meeting Randall Wallace. The year before I spoke at the National Prayer Breakfast, I spoke in 2012. He spoke in 2011, and he was there. I guess the year that I spoke, I met with him and got to talk with him. But Braveheart is just one of the great films for many, many reasons.

It's been a long time since I've seen it. But it resonates with people for so many reasons. And Mel Gibson seems to have a knack of finding those kinds of films. What do you think it is about Braveheart that has resonated with people? over the now decades. Well, I think, you know, as awesome as the special effects were, which were low-tech at the time, you know, the war scenes, great stuff. Mel Gibson, you know, poured his everything into the movie, and that was evident.

But I think what resonates, the reason it resonates with so many people is that the story came to us from the hands of a master storyteller. Randall had a lot of practice telling stories by the time that the seeds of William Wallace's story came to him, it was germinating over years. And he honed his craft. He learned to pull out relationships in Wallace's life, you know, the woman that was killed at the hands of his, the English, his family members that he lost in the conflict, why he got into fighting for Scottish freedom. And it's just a master storyteller and his story. And those relationships, we remember, you know, the funny character, Stephen, right?

who comes to him from Ireland and is talking about the Almighty, and the Almighty allows him to fight with the boss. I'm not sure. I think if we can, we'll keep you on for another segment or two, or we may have to go to another guest and then come back to you. But, folks, that ends our one. Andrew will be talking to you either shortly or less shortly. Folks, we'll be right back.