The Eric Metaxas Show - Ann McElhinney

Episode Date: June 30, 2022

Ann McElhinney, along with her journalist/filmmaker husband Phelim McAleer, have a new project which reveals the horrors of abortion: "Kermit Gosnell - True Crime Podcast."

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. The Texas show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Uh-oh. The show is beginning, Albin. I'm afraid. Don't be nervous, but it's beginning. All right, folks, today we have some really important stuff. I hope I don't say this every day. If I do, I mean it. But today, in a few minutes,

we're talking to Anne McElhenney, who we've had on this program many times before. This woman is an absolute hero. She and her husband Phelham McAleher, they're journalists. They have created a crime, true crime podcast about the true story of Kermit Gossnell, which is one of the most chilling stories you will ever hear. It is about abortion, an issue from which we do not shrink on this program. The grim, grim is too kind. The horrific reality of abortion, never more horrific than with regard to the story of Kermit Gosnell. They tell that story, heroically, I say heroically because so few others dared to tell the story. So that's coming up. And I am begging you folks to share the podcast when I talk to Anne in a few minutes. I give the address out over and over

again because you've got to share this with people, with young people. You know, there's homework to do. You've got to do that. So all right, Albin, before we get to that, oh, in an hour or two, we're speaking to another hero. Dr. Simone Gold, some of you know her story. It's just unbelievable. Ladies and gentlemen, please share these things with your friends. Please, please go to my website, Eric Mataxis.com, sign up for the newsletter. If you get the newsletter, you're getting the videos of these conversations.

Please share the videos with your friends on social media. We want to get the word out on these things. These are life-changing stories that the people, we're talking to, Anne McElheny in a few minutes, and Simone Gold and a few others we've had, this is, every American needs to be aware of this, so please do your part. And by the way, dovetailing off of the Anne McElany interview is The Matter of Life at SalemNow.com. What's interesting, of course, this is all about the whole abortion issue, which of course is front and center right now. I mean, we're not talking about Russia and the Ukraine these days, right?

That's kind of off of page one. But the matter of life.com. or SalemNow.com is where you'll find that. Well, actually, listen, we are going to, here, let's, we're going to lay this out here. So in hour one today and spilling into hour two, we have Anne McElhany talking about the Gosnell case in abortion. It's, believe me, folks, you've got to share this with people. And in our hour two, we have our friend, Dr. Simone Gold, who has been put through hell by the, quote, unquote, government. You just can't believe it. So we're going to be talking to her.

But I want to say a few things, and then we're going to end on a funny note. I think it's a funny note. We need that. I want to say, number one, yes, go to SalemNow.com. If you want to see 2,000 mules. If you haven't seen it, pretty sure you're a communist. Just saying, 2,000 mules. SalemNow.com, the matter of life.

If you want to see something that deals in an even-handed way with the abortion issue, the matter of life, you can go see at Salem now.com. I also should mention Albin, only today and tomorrow, Nutrametics.com, 30% off if you use the code Eric June, because it's only good for the month of June. So today and tomorrow, that's it, right? Eric June, if you use the code Eric June at Nutrimetics.com, you get the vitamin C, the vitamin D, the magnesium, the quercetin, the immune support, whatever. there's that handful of products. If you use Eric June as the code, you get 30% off, not the 20% off, which you get on everything else. So I have to mention that only two days left.

Vitamin C, vitamin D, quercetin, and magnesium. Sorry. And then the immune booster stuff. All of those are 30% off in the month of June if you use the code Eric June, Nutrimetics. Nutrimetics.com. Okay, are you ready? Yes. Tomorrow we've got John Zmirak.

Oh, no. And I want to say to anybody who cares, if you would like to meet me or hear me speak or whatever, I post all that on my website, Eric Mittaxas.com. I am speaking in a church in Greenwich, Connecticut, this Sunday. Harvest Time Church in Greenwich, Connecticut. I have so many friends in that area. Probably none of them knows that I'm speaking at Harvest Time in Greenwich, Connecticut this Sunday.

You know, the thing is, Ann and I have a good friend in Greenwich, and we would be there, but we're going to be at Lake Erie by Sunday, so we're not going to be there. But next time... But if you wanted to, you would leave Lake Erie. I know you would do it if you wanted to. All the way over. It's only about eight, nine hours. It's only eight or nine hours.

You drive through the night. You'll make it in time for the sermon. Okay, so Greenwich, Connecticut, but if you want the details, and I look, I love meeting people. Obviously, I'll be signing books after books. services, Harvest Time Church, Greenwich, Connecticut, this Sunday, July 3rd. Yes. That's coming up. Then, of course, we got the July 4th.

Next week, ladies and gentlemen, are you ready? Oh, yeah. In studio. Right here, we're going to have John Zmirach. He is a living being. He is. He doesn't just exist, you know, on the video screen. He's going to be in this studio, although you'll have to watch it on a video screen.

But I will get to see him in person. Maybe I'll share a meal with him. but I want to say that that's pretty exciting. I'll still be swimming at Lake Erie. Yeah, you'll be at Lake Erie. We have a funny letter to share. This, I mean, look, we get lots and lots of letters. I read every single one.

We can't respond to most of them. But this one, like, completely cracked me up. Yeah. This completely cracked me up. I won't say the last name of the person, but her first name is Siri. I'm not making this up, right? A woman wrote to our website,

kind of an angry email saying, you know, you are broadcasting your program at double speed. I love your bumper music because I'm a boomer like you, Eric, and I love all the bumper music. It's great bumper music. I love the interviews. But it's driving me crazy. Why do you? I know you need to get in so much because you don't have time, but you talk so fast and it. And it was really angry email.

And then like a few minutes later, a second email came in from the same person. And this person said, Eric, this is the same person, Siri. Eric, my 25-year-old tech expert son showed me the speed adjustment on my phone. I had been listening to you, Dennis Prager, Steve Bannon, and others at twice the speed, thinking you were all speeding up the conversation in order to get more in. I'm sure there's a proverb about this. The Foolish will be made wise by their own children. Thanks again for all your podcast conversations and for airing the music of my youth.

May God continue to bless your words and works sincerely Siri. I just thought this is the funniest thing ever. She was really angry. Like, all these jerks are talking so fast. It's insane. And the music's too fast. And her son says, oh, no, mom, listen, your phone is on double speed. She thought it was Alvin and the chipmunks up all over again.

I said, that is so cute. Hey, Dave. It's so cute and funny. I said, I've got to read that. And thank you for letting us do that. But I just thought that's so cute. I wonder how many other people are listening to us at triple speed. Right?

Right? Right. Triple speed. Okay. So we've got tons coming up today. It's very, very exciting. Look, the rest of the week next week, we've got Clarence Thomas's biographer, the filmmaker, Michael Pack, talking about Lawrence Thomas. Yeah, and a special

special on the 4th of July, a whole thing about America's history. That's going to be exciting. Oh, oh, oh. And next week, I'm going to Dallas. Oh, you are. I'm speaking okay, so again, if you want to know where I'm speaking in Dallas, it's an Anglican conference. I never do this. I'm speaking on

all of my books. I think I'm doing a talk on Luther. I'm doing a talk on Bonhofer. I'm doing a little bit of war. I'm doing it to talk on his atheism. I'm doing like four talks. And I'm still swimming at Erie. And you're still still swimming in Lake Erie. And, but that's in Dallas. And then I'm preaching at a church in Dallas, flower mound, actually, Texas.

If you want all those details, listen, folks, I'm going to be in Dallas. If you're in that neck of the woods or you know people, I'd love to meet them. After that, I'm going to Washington State. I'm going all over the place in July. But I'm going to be in Greenwich, Connecticut, this Sunday. I'm going to be in Dallas next week. And next Sunday, go to my website, Eric Mataxis.com. sign up for the newsletter. I probably never mentioned that before, but we sent out all this information.

And catch me in the lake at Lake Erie. And we'll be right back. Thank you. Hey folks, if you could make money off of abortion or pornography, would you do it? I hope the answer is no. But I want to tell you, Robert Netsley, the founder of InspireInsight.com, he was the president of his local pro-life pregnancy center when he discovered that he owned investments in three companies manufacturing abortion. drugs. Well, God helped him to see that he was making money from abortion, pornography, LGBT activism, and the list goes on. And that's why he created Inspireinsight.com. Inspireinsight.com gives you instant access to biblical values data on over 23,000 stocks, mutual funds, and ETFs so you can invest to the glory of God. You need to go to InspireInsight.com today and screen your 401k's IRAs and other investment accounts. I did, and I was shocked. Now I'm able to clean out the junk and invest in companies actually doing good things.

Go to inspireinsight.com today and register for free. That's inspireinsight.com. Go there. In case you haven't been paying attention, the Biden administration has caused a financial crisis, and they have no clue how to fix it. Oil prices have skyrocketed, and when oil prices go up, the cost of transportation and shipping spikes, leading the prices of goods to rise. And when we're already seeing record inflation, that's the last thing we need. economy is in trouble and you need to take steps to protect yourself. If all your money is tied up in stocks, bonds, and traditional markets, you are vulnerable. Gold is one of the best ways to protect your retirement. No matter what happens, you own your gold. It is real, it is physical, it's always

been valuable since the dawn of time. Legacy precious metals is the company I trust for investing in gold. They can help you roll your retirement account into a gold-backed IRA where you still own the physical gold. They can also ship gold and precious metal safely and securely to your house. Call Legacy at 866-528-1903 or visit them online at LegacyPMinvestments.com. Hey there, folks. Welcome. I get to talk to somebody that I like. Her name is Anne. McAulini. Did I say it correctly, Anne? How close did I get? Fabulously. Oh, my God. I love it. It's just unbelievable. All right. Now, You, often I'm speaking to you along with your husband, Phelam McAleer. Are you Irish by any chance?

That would be right. That would be right. And Phelam is not with us today, but you represent him well. You've done so many things. People who listen to this program are familiar with you. You're a journalist. You made a film about Kermit Gazznell. I don't even know. There's no way even to describe that. But we can talk about that in just a moment. You're working on a film or you've shot a film already about Hunter Biden. What is the title of that film?

My Son Hunter, and that's coming out soon. More news on that quite soon. My Son Hunter, which is a film about Hunter Biden. Today, however, we're talking. about another one of your projects, which is a true crime podcast. So if people are interested in finding it, it is called serial killer, a true crime podcast. And the serial killer, of course, is Dr. Kermit Gosnell, the Philadelphia abortion doctor, convicted of many, many, many murders in 2013. It's horrifying. So, Anne, talk about this.

I'm not a big podcast listener. Some people listen to this program on podcast, but what is serial killer, a true crime podcast? Yeah, so the true crime genre in podcasts, as you say, on the conservative side, we have a lot of podcasts that are like radio shows on demand. So people listen to your podcast, to our podcast, and it's like radio on demand.

However, there's this other huge territory in the podcast world of narrative, dramatic, sort of documentary style podcasts. And one of the biggest sections of that is true crime. So, for example, NPR did a show called Serial, a narrative story about a boy who killed his girlfriend and Muslim boy who killed his girlfriend. 450 million people downloaded it. And it's very high production values,

they interview people in prison. And we thought, you know something, we have all these tapes of interviews with Kermit Gosnell of interviews with the detectives, of interviews of victims. And it's pretty compelling stuff. And we're also still in touch with Kermit Gosnell. And we have interviewed him for hundreds of hours since he went to prison. And we're thinking, this is actually a really compelling story

that people who listen to true crime and like true crime would find fascinating. The guy was found by accident. Jim Wood, a detective who was undercoverer, was doing a drug, you know, a routine drug investigation, discovered this doctor who was one of the biggest opioid sellers in the whole of Pennsylvania. And then, you know, they do a raid on the clinic. They walk in and they get this smell of death. And they're like, there's something else going on here.

And it's a brilliant, it's an incredible story. And we tell it over six episodes with the main players telling their part in putting this guy away. I want to be clear because I know there are many new listeners to this program or to my podcast. They're not familiar because they haven't heard my conversation. conversations with you on the film that you made. But this is one of these stories of our time. It's one of the most gruesome and important stories of our time because there are many gruesome stories, but this story is extremely gruesome, but also extremely important, because it highlights so many things at the heart of our broken culture. And so for people

who know nothing about Kermit Gossnell, let's talk about that. My understanding, my understanding understanding the surface level is that this was a man who was operating one of the most, I mean, folks, this is like out of a novel. It's too horrific to imagine, but this is in a poor section of Philadelphia preying on poor black women almost exclusively. And this is one of the most filthy, evil abortion clinics you could ever imagine. It's like out of Dickens. It's utterly horrifying. And this was going on year after year after year, and the authorities did nothing.

So that's one piece of this story. But, Anne, talk more, please, for my audience who doesn't know what happened. No, but that's a great introduction, by the way. This guy was operating in plain sight. I mean, that's an incredibly important part of this piece. This guy operated for 30 years in plain sight. He did do legal abortions in a filthy, filthy, dirty place. However, he had a modus operandi of delivering bigger babies alive

and then cutting the necks with scissors. And he did this, according to the grand jury, thousands of times. Okay. Okay. But let's just go back for a second. Because I've never really understood this, I don't think. He was known that if you basically are eight months pregnant, nine months pregnant, you can go to Kermit Gossinel and he will kill the baby.

He did this. This was his, effectively, his specialty. If you really were stuck, he would do anything, including murder live children, deliver them and then kill them. hard for us to even talk about this, but this is a reality. This was going on year after year after year after year in a quote-unquote legal abortion facility operated by this monster, this serial killer. How did you come to this story?

You and Phelam, how did you come to know about this story? So we made a documentary called Fract Nation, and Phelam was doing screenings for people across Pennsylvania, and he had a couple of days off, and I don't know, you've met Phelam, right? He's just this veteran journalist. He always has a nose for a story. He'd heard about some kind of thing that was going on in the courthouse, went down to the courthouse in Philadelphia.

They had reserved the largest courtroom available because they presumed that the magnitude of this story would have attracted an enormous number of journalists. However, that's not at all what happened. In fact, it was like the Mary Celeste, he went in. There was no one there in this massive courtroom.

And he started to hear, and this is a guy who's covered war in Northern Ireland. I mean, he has covered some all. awful gruesome stories. And he's sitting there, he's listening to the worst testimony he has ever heard, plus seeing these photographs

of the babies, of the babies that were murdered, projected on a large screen in front of this jury, and he's thinking, what is going on here? And the most shocking thing for him was that the journalists weren't there.

And in the front of the courtroom, you've got Kermit Gosnell smirking, which is kind of his thing, by the way. He's sort of smirking, sort of flirting with the stenographer, And it's like he's thinking, what is going on here and how is this not world news?

I mean, I make the point all the time. Everyone on the planet Earth knows who Michael Brown is. Michael Brown was a thug who tried to beat a police officer to death, and he was shot dead. And it's sad that he died. But the world knows who he is. People do not know who Samika Shaw is, and a young African-American mother, who died after a botched abortion in Kermit Gosnell's clinic. She was an innocent in comparison to Michael Brown, and no one's ever heard of her.

And that's why this story needs to be told. And it needs to be told for lots of other reasons. I mean, one of the biggest points about this, given the context we're in right now, in a post-Roe world, right? People are like, this is an outlier. I don't know why you're talking about Gosnell. This is an outlier.

Well, it's not an outlier. I'll tell you how I know he's not an outlier. This happened in Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania is very, very progressive. Pennsylvania has fabulous laws. They have a massive Department of Health, a massive Department of State. state. And every one of those

bureaucrats knew there was something going on and they ignored it. They ignored him. They protected him. And what, you know, give me any reason, Eric, to believe that this not possible, that something like that's happening in California,

in New York, in New Jersey, or all these other progressive places that just love abortion so much that you have to protect no matter what. Well, that's the point. And that's why this is as important a story as there is. We can't talk about it enough because the mainstream media refuses to talk about it,

just like they refuse to talk about the Hunter Biden laptop. This is journalists and political bureaucrats participating in evil, satanic evil. When you hear the details, you don't even have to believe in the satanic realm to think this seems satanic. There is something particularly gruesome and horrific, monstrous about what Dr. Kermit Gossnell did. And they refuse to cover it because it works against the narrative that they have sold their souls to tell. And the best way for people to go right now and listen to some of the podcast is to go to serialkillerpod.com. Serialkillerpod.com. Listen to the first episode.

We've got two episodes available so far. and worldwide we are now, I think, at number 50 in true crime podcasts. We're coming down the charts, coming towards number, you know, to the top 10. That's where we, that's where our ambition is to get there. Okay. Because this is an incredibly important story. We're going to go to a break. Folks, this is important.

Share this with your friends. Serialkillerpod.com. It's serial killer, a true crime podcast, but you can go to serial killer pod. dot com. We've got to get the word out about this serial killer pod.com. We'll be right back. Hey there, folks. Eric Metaxis here. As you know, our friend, and he's a real friend, Mike Lindell, has a passion to help everyone get the best sleep of their life. But he didn't stop by simply creating the best pillow. Now Mike has done it again by introducing his My Slippers. My Slippers. They're unbelievable. I know all about them, but I got to tell you, for a limited time, you will save $90 on each pair of my slippers.

They're expensive. You can save $90. This blowout sale of the year won't last order now. He's taken over two years to develop them. The my slippers are designed to wear indoors and out all day long made with My Pillow Foam and Impact gel to help prevent fatigue. Made with quality leather swayed call 1-800-978-3057. Use the promo code Eric or go to mypillow.com. Click on the radio listeners square and use promo code Eric. The offer will not last long, so order now with promo code Eric at MyPillow.com or call 800-978-3057. 8-800-378-3057. Folks, welcome back. I'm talking to Ann McElhany. Not to be confused with her husband, Phelm McAleer. Journalists, real journalists, who actually do journalism. Hard to believe they still exist. But, Anne, you do exist. And you're doing journalism. You're doing it right now. You're talking about your new podcast. It's called Serial Killer, a True Crime

Podcast. And folks, you can find it at SerialKillerPod.com. There are tons of people out there who listen to True Crime Podcast. They love this stuff. And what could be more central than the issue of abortion? Because right now we have people acting as though it's the most wonderful thing in the world. And let me just say, folks, if you listen to SerialkillerPod.com, if you go to serial killer pod.com and listen to the story of Kermit Kossnell. It will change your view of abortion. Even if you're against abortion, you have no idea of the horrors that were going on in plain sight that people who don't care look the other way. They ought to be prosecuted for this.

Let me ask you, let me start there. and when you uncover the monstrousness of what happened, again, some of it is just so sick, is there any sense that there's anybody that will be held to account for this, for looking the other way, some of these bureaucratic officials who obviously chose not to deal with this? Yeah, no. I mean, I have no sense that anyone really was brought to book. And in fact, it's interesting. We tried to get in touch with people at the Department of Health to do.

talk to them about what had happened since then. And they won't even talk to us. They won't even talk to us. They won't even allow themselves to be held accountable for what happened. And some of them retired, you know, they took nice pensions and retired early. But nobody was really brought to book. They should go to prison. You know, it's funny. My father used to talk about people with pensionable jobs. He was a small businessman. He was always fascinated by people who had these pensionable jobs, these government jobs, the marvelous security that it ensured. And, you know, he would be really angry at the prospect of these people who had these beautiful jobs, well-paid jobs, sitting in the beautiful offices in Harrisburg,

who wouldn't bother getting up to defend the defenseless, to get up and defend Samika Shaw, young African-American mother, because they didn't want to drive into Philadelphia. They didn't want to drive in to a black neighborhood to defend these people. And these are the same people that were closing down nail salons. and the grand jury was very, very cross about that. They were like, yeah, you'd close down a nail salon, but you just didn't even get off your backside in Harrisburg

when two women died, a refugee from Bhutan and a young African-American mother. And when the complaints against this guy were piled up to the sky with all kinds of people writing, people handed in handwritten complaints and still nothing was done. I mean, it's an extraordinary story, and it needs to be known very widely, and he needs to take his place in that infamous pantheon of most infamous serial killers, he's the worst.

He's literally the worst. I mean, this is hard for us to believe, hard for us to say, literally the worst. When you actually look at what happened, it is gruesome, it is satanic. Let's be clear, evil has always existed, and there have always been people very happy to sell their souls to the devil,

for money. And that's what many of these people with these pensionable jobs did. They basically said, if I say nothing, I will be rewarded. All I have to do is look the other way when there's evil, when there are people suffering, and that's what they did. And look, we know this happened in Germany in the 30s and 40s. It happened in America. We had the slave trade. We had slavery. Evil has always existed. But in our day, evil exists in this fashion. This is the story of our time. And what makes it so chilling again is because we always act as though, well, the world's getting better. People are evolving into more humane. We're getting nicer. Precisely the opposite. What we see is darker and darker that in the United States of America, this kind of thing could have been going on. And again, for people who are

just tuning in. The podcast is called Serial Killer, a true crime podcast. You can find it at Serialkillerpod.com. But Ann, let's just go back for people who aren't familiar with what we're talking about. This was a doctor, Dr. Kermit Gossnell, operating a filthy, filthy clinic, quote unquote, in inner city Philadelphia, making a lot of money performing mostly late-term abortions and the details are so gruesome that it is nonetheless shocking that somebody didn't look into this. It's hard. We understand that if it hadn't been abortion, somebody would have looked into it. But when it comes to abortion in the inner city, people like, well, you know what? That's what those people do. I mean, this is actual racism. This is genuine racism. People talk about racism. This is actual racism.

But talk about some of the details of what was happening in this horrible, quote, unquote, clinic. Yeah, and by the way, on that point about the racism, it's the bigotry of low expectations, right? Absolutely. You know, if ever there were. Some of the details, so it was filthy. I mean, when the cops raided the place, they said that the smell was like a wall, the smell of the smell of death. They walked in, there were cats walking around the procedure room. Dr. Gossel himself on the night of the raid was doing a procedure, came out of the procedure with torn bloody gloves and ate salmon terriaki.

He fed his turtles. There were bodies piled up in the basement. The people who worked for him, none of them were qualified. There were people who had like a second or third grade education. They were barely literate and they were giving anesthesia. They were administering anesthesia. They were administering anesthesia. And people died.

And the best anesthesiologist was 16. Okay, folks, we've got a lot more. We're talking to Anne McElheny, serial killerpod.com. Please check it out. Please share it, serial killer pod.com. Folks, welcome back. I'm talking to Anne McElheny, who with her husband, Phelam McAleherly, has produced serial killer, a true crime podcast.

Anne, you and Phelam, you're very creative in how you get this information out. And the idea of doing a true crime podcast like this, it is very creative. What's the response been so far? It's been really good, actually. I mean, we're climbing up the charts. We were, you know, we started at something like 180. on the 200 best true crime podcast in the world. I think we're at 50 right now.

So when people listen, and I urge people, by the way, share this podcast with that young person in your life who you think needs to hear this because they are very open to podcasts. Say to them, look, you're going on the train, you've got that long journey in the car. Listen to this for me,

and just tell me what you think after you listen to one episode. Get them in on one episode. It's fascinating. I mean, it's an extraordinary story. And I think one of the things that we have to do now, It's amazing what happened last week. With the decision of Roe, it's amazing. But now the really hard work begins,

because now the people will decide what they think about abortion. And there are some very hard and hardened hearts out there. I'm sure you've seen some of the very disturbing footage of young people with, you know, covered in blood, with bringing little dolls and shaking them and whatever. These are very hardened, hardened, harded people who need to understand what's at stake here

and what we're dealing with here. And this podcast brings that in a real way. You realize, you know, it makes you start to realize what's actually legal in America, that it is legal in America to kill and to have abortions up to nine months. That that is legal in most populations. I was going to say, this cannot help but remind me

of the story I tell in my book Amazing Grace about William Wilberforce and the heroic campaign to end slavery. Wilberforce was dealing with exactly the same thing. Satanic evil. slavery and the slave trade was so evil when you look at it, which obviously in my book Amazing Grace, I do. You can't believe that this happened in a quote unquote civilized society like England that they allowed this to go on. Many people, of course, were ignorant of it. And this is the key. There are many people in America today who they shout slogans and whatever. They have

no idea of the bloody, gruesome, sick reality that they are papering over with these two terms like reproductive rights, complete nonsense. And when you look at it, it is so horrifying, you can't believe that this is countenanced in your culture. And that's why it's so important that people understand the reality of it, folks. If you understand, if you care about women, you will find out that the abortion industry, it is as anti-woman as you can imagine. Don't buy the lies. So in this... That's a really good point.

That's a really good point, Eric. No, the point that you're making there, it's worth stopping for a moment. I do believe, I sincerely believe, that in our lifetime, probably in our lifetime, I hope in our lifetime, we will live to be in a time where people will go, oh, my God, can you believe we used to do this? That people will look back and say, oh, my God, in the same way as slavery. I mean, everyone thought slavery was a great idea at the time. Most people thought it was a great idea at the time.

By the way, eugenics was very popular in America, not that long ago. And now we look back in disbelief. We're going to look back in disbelief that we did this, that we would either suction out or pull out in parts little babies who are alive, who feel pain during the trial, by the way, and we have parts of the trial reenacted in the podcast. You know, abortion doctors, legal abortion doctors, asked to describe a legal abortion.

And I can tell you that the jury, they gasped at what was legal. They couldn't believe what was legal. Even friends of my own who are highly qualified doctors in Ireland were a gasped. They didn't know. They didn't know that this is how it was done. And it's an interesting thing. It just shows you how clever the abortion industry is, that they cover this up so effectively, that people don't know, even very informed people don't know.

It's extraordinary. Well, as I was saying, it's dramatic parallels to the slave trade. Wilber Forrest was dealing with a nation that was largely ignorant of the horror of the slave trade. And so he realized it was his job, you know, not just to try to get the slave trade outlawed, but to educate your average person to understand what was legal, what was going on. And the more people see what's happening, the more they change their mind. They said, I had no idea. I had no idea. I've heard these terms. I've heard these slogans. It's all very abstract. That's precisely what you have with the abortion industry is that once people are

educated to the reality of it, there's no way they're going to remain where they were. There's just no way. So obviously, millions of dollars are being spent to keep people from getting this kind of information, which is why I'm so proud of you and Phelam for creating this. serial killer pod.com. So say more, if you would, about what people will find in this. This is, I mean, is this Gossnell speaking about some of what he did? And he has a kind of cavalier attitude, I guess, about it. He thinks it's funny.

Yeah, we get to hear from Kermit Gossel, but we also, you know, and I just want to, because people might be listening to this and thinking, oh, my God, I can't listen to this. The truth is, actually, it's very inspiring because. the story is very much led by these incredible investigators, like these incredible cops, like Detective Jim Wood, this amazing guy from a family of 11. I just adore him. I just adore him. I said to him a few years ago,

well, basically we're related now. Friends Forever. He's from an Irish family. You can imagine. And also people like, you know, Steve Gockerty from the DEA and Jason Huff from the FBI. These are the people who lead the story. And Christine Wexler, one of the assistant district attorneys, This is who you hear from.

And the other voices I think that you hear that you kind of get to hear in a way are the voices that have been up until now silenced, the voice of baby boy A, who died on the same day as my own father's birthday, and I don't think it's accidental, July the 12th. And people saw him. They saw that baby and what happened to him, and they watched him die and how he was murdered. And I think he can change the whole world.

I know one girl who wrote to me, she got, she put it, she tattooed. an A on her arm so that she would always remember him, so that she would always pray for him. And I think that those lives need to be memorialised. We need to remember this. And the thousands and thousands of children who die every day in abortions

legally in America. And to know, for example, people say, oh, those second and third trimester abortions, they're very outliers. No, well, even based on the numbers we have, which, by the way, are very much of an estimate, but based on the numbers we have from the abortion industry, tens of thousands of babies of that age are aborted every year. We've got another segment, folks.

Please go to serial killerpod.com. Serialkillerpod. com. Share it. We'll be right back. Are you looking for a fun podcast? Well, may I recommend serial killerpod. com. Serialkillerpod.

com. There you will find the podcast. called Serial Killer, a True Crime podcast. Anne McElhenney is my guest. And this is very creative of you and your husband Phelham to create a true crime podcast about the story of Kermit Gossnell, which we're going to look back years from now. This is one of the stories of our time. It almost makes the story of Charles Manson seem banal. I mean, because this deals, well, for so many reasons.

Describe, if you would, Gaznell, what it was that he did over literally decades in plain sight in a quote unquote legal abortion clinic, murdering children, nobody bothering to investigate. it's like a it's like an epic novel of some kind. It's unbelievable. It's very frightening. And as I said, at the top of the interview,

I was saying, you know, there's absolutely no reason for us to believe that this isn't happening in lots of places. Why wouldn't we think that? If it happened in Pennsylvania,

why couldn't it happen in California or in New York, particularly in New York in California, where again, it's super, super progressive. There's loads of laws, apparently to protect people. However, this happened.

How did it happen in total plain sight? And here's what he did. This is a guy who, as you say, he prayed on very poor populations. But women did turn up there, by the way. Women turned up there, as you say, right up to the nine-month mark. And what he did was he would fill them up with cytotech. Basically, he would make them dilate over a three-day period because obviously with those bigger babies, that's what he had to do.

And on the third day, he had a time that they would come in on a Sunday when he and the wife were there. So mostly the big babies were done on Sundays. That's according to the ground. jury investigation. And the babies would fall out. Basically, the babies would fall out at that stage. And he would lift the baby up and he would cut its neck with scissors.

And if he wasn't there, the baby would fall out. He would have one of the people he trained. So one of these people who was either had a drug addiction or an alcohol problem or some kind of social issue, lots of them had every kind of possible social ill was the concoction of these people that were working there. I mean, no offense to them, but you wouldn't, Jim Wood said you wouldn't allow them to mow your lawn, let alone give someone anesthesia. And he would have them trained to do the snipping, as he called it, when he wasn't there. And we hear from some of them.

I just have a question, you know, a rudimentary question, but these children are born and then murdered. why what was his reasoning in other words if a child is born alive why did he feel that he must kill the child that had come out of its mother that was that was the job so the woman had come along wanting the baby to be killed and what he did was because it was because in these later term abortions it's quite complicated it's quite a big surgery and what's much easy is have the baby born alive, have the baby fall out, and then just cut its neck with scissors, much, much easier than having to inject the mother into the right spot, which is what, when it's legally done, that's what they do. Inject the heart of the baby, just like you do with a dog.

You would put poison into the heart of a dog, in this case, in abortion. And then when the baby is dead, you pull out the parts. That's what they do. And this is what they said in the trial, by the way. This is another reason why it was amazing that the trial wasn't covered, that journalists weren't wall to wall. And by the way, another thing that happened during the trial was they discovered this, one of the doctors described, they said to the doctor and one of the legal abortion doctors, what would happen if a baby was born alive? And that doctor said, well, you know, we would, you know, comfort care. And they said, what is that? And she said, well, you know, keep it warm. Eventually it'll pass.

In other words, neglect the baby to death. Yes, simply let it die in peace. We'll be right back for a final segment talking. Go to serialkillerpod.com.