The Eric Metaxas Show - Ann McElhinney (Encore)

Episode Date: July 6, 2022

Ann McElhinney, along with her journalist/filmmaker husband Phelim McAleer, have a new project which reveals the horrors of abortion: "Kermit Gosnell - True Crime Podcast."

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mataxis show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy pm investments.com. The Texas show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Ladies and gentlemen, it's happened again. I'm excited. Why? Because right now I get to talk to somebody. I've not spoken to him on this program before. His name is Mark Skousen. I think it's Scusen. He'll tell me if I'm wrong.

And he is, yes, it's Scousen. I already know that that was wrong. Mark Skousen, who is the producer of something called Freedom Fest. Many of you listening to this program, you don't know anything about Freedom Fest. That's the point. We wanted to have Mark Skowson on to talk to you about Freedom Fest. I know about Freedom Fest because I'm going to be at Freedom Fest this year. but I want you to know about it from the man behind it.

He is a university professor. He's a financial economist, but who isn't, right? And here he is, Mark Scouse. And welcome to the program. Thank you, Eric. It's just a real pleasure. And I am so excited about you coming to Freedom Fest for the first time. And I know you're doing a debate on your book on atheism, is atheism dead,

which is a great play on the old Time magazine cover, is God dead. And so we were very excited to find out what has happened in the last 40 years that you can now switch that title. That's going to be a really great topic, a great debate at Freedom Fest. I have to tell you, I never debate just because I'm scared of debating. I think like what is it, you know, what is that going to be? But to me, it is an exciting opportunity to share ideas because I do think that my book, obviously, I mean, this is not like original material. for me. But to discover this stuff and to share it and to realize that, yes, the evidence from science, think of the irony, from science for God, is overwhelming. It's astonishing. Most people are unaware of it.

Some people might not like it, but I think it's important to talk about it. But yes, you have honored me with an invitation to be at Freedom Fest this year. Now, for folks, many of whom are listening right now who don't know anything about Freedom Fest, please tell us, what is it? So it's an annual event. Our idea is that we all are like chasing cats. It's really hard to take some time out of our busy schedules. But once a year, the idea is everybody who's a part of the freedom movement, broadly defined, comes together once a year to learn from each other, to celebrate liberty, to network. And the whole idea is that we bring in all. all the freedom organizations, the think tanks, the Cato's, the Reasons, the Heritage Foundation, Americans for Prosperity, Students for Liberty. We have over 150 people coming together for that. And then we do three, we have 300 and some speakers.

We have breakout sessions, over 200 breakout sessions. We have over 2,000 people coming together to learn from each other and to celebrate liberty or what's left of it and to focus on the issues that are at hand. So Steve Forbes is our ambassador to Freedom Fest. We have Kennedy from Fox Business as our MC. When we have lots of these debates, and like you say, Eric, we're interested in civil debates. We're interested in learning from each other and not just winning a debate. We have a mock trial every year. This year, we're putting drug legalization on trial. That's been becoming more popular. Is that a good? good thing or not. So it really is an exciting event. The dates are July 13th through the 16th.

We are in Las Vegas this year. We were shut down last year and went to South Dakota instead. We had a record crowd. But we're back in Vegas and we're at the Mirage. And if people go to FreedomFest.com, they can get all the information about it. But it's going to be a rip-roaring event. And as Steve Forbes says, this is wall-to-wall excitement. Nobody's ever bored at this conference because there's 10 different things to do at once. And slot machines. Just kidding. Although technically, I suppose, yes, there are slot machines.

Well, listen, one of the reasons that I'm excited about being there at Freedom Fest is because I think I'm going to get to interview John Cleese. I have been a fan of his work for decades. And I can't believe that John Cleese is going to be there. Who cares about Eric Mattaxas? John Cleese is going to be there, for goodness sakes. Why is John Cleese involved in Freedom Fest? Well, he has recently spoken out against the cancel culture. And as a comedian, as you know, comedians have had a very difficult time on campuses and so forth.

Everybody is being canceled. And he's speaking out against that. But we have always believed in thinking outside the box and not doing conferences where the same old, same old people show up. but we bring in new people. We've had William Shatner. We've had George Foreman. We've had Kevin O'Leary of Shark Tank. We've had George Will. And we're having you come and speak for the first time. So John Cleese is an extremely important spokesperson for free speech. And so we have him there. And a number of people are going to be interviewing him. So Nick Gillespie at Reason, he's going to interview him yourself and others. He's excited about coming across the pond for this big event and we hope people will respond very positive to his message. And I just want to be clear, it's not really a pond, folks. Don't be fooled. The British have been getting it wrong for decades and decades. I respect them, but I'm not going to agree with the idea that it's a pond. It's an ocean. All right, let's be clear. It's saline. It's huge.

Separated by two languages. We're interested in the facts. So Mark Skousen, financial economist, university professor, how did you become the Freedom Fest founder? The guy deciding to do it. I mean, where did you get this idea? When did you, what is your story? Where did you grow up? And how did you come to like this idea called freedom?

Well, I grew up in Portland, Oregon. My parents, my father was an FBI agent who worked with Jagger Hoover. I have always had a fondness for liberty, and I'm a financial economist. But basically, I became the president of fee, the foundation for economic education in the year 2001. And I said, you know, what can we do to reinvigorate the freedom movement? Because we've been losing our freedom, slowly but surely, either more mandates or more prohibitions, our freedom is being squeezed and squeezed. And we need to reverse the tide. In fact, that's our theme for this year, turning of the tide.

So I started this in the year 2000, and we are a for-profit event. And so we focus on the customer and not our donors. And it makes for a very successful conference. But basically, that's the theme. I was fearing we're losing our freedom, despite all the efforts that we have with alternative. media and what you're doing and others. I think we are winning certain battles. We are turning the tide, but it is an upward battle. I mean, do you realize that 50% of GDP now goes to government spending? Government spending represents half of our GDP. So we are half free and half slave, as Abe Lincoln said. So we need to reverse that trend. And that is something that I'm passionate about. and it's really fun to get together at Freedom Fest and meet all these like-minded individuals

who leave Freedom Fest and say, oh my gosh, we have a chance that we can make a difference. I mean, it's amazing to me that you're getting, you know, 2,000 people. This is really impressive. How did, you know, it must have been, it must have taken some time for this to catch on,

but talk about catching on. This is just fantastic. Yeah, we started off. with the 750 people at our first conference and it's just been growing and growing last year in South Dakota at Mount Rushmore. We had the biggest turnout ever. And of course, there, and one thing that's important to people understand, we're not just a political organization that hears politicians. We talk philosophy, we talk religion, we talk economics, politics, healthy living. We have John Mackey, the CEO of Whole Foods, who's a big believer in healthy living. When we've got

on through this pandemic, you know, when are we going to focus on healthy living? That's the kind of thing we want to get back. I was going to say, there's all kinds of stuff going on. You got John Cleese, in the past, of course, William Shatner, George Foreman, and now the logical third, Eric Metaxus. It's such a joy finally to meet you, Mark. Scows, congratulations. Folks, check out Freedom Fest. I am really excited. Thank you, Mark. We'll see you there. In case you have the black for the poor and the beating down. Living in the hopeless, hungry side of town, I wear it.

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Hey there, folks. Welcome. I get to talk to somebody that I like. Her name is Anne. McEleney. Did I say it correctly, Anne? How close did I get? Fabulously. Oh, my God.

I love it. It's just unbelievable. All right. Now you, often I'm speaking. to you along with your husband, Phelam McAleer. Are you Irish by any chance? That would be right.

That would be right. And Phelam is not with us today, but you represent him well. You've done so many things. People who listen to this program are familiar with you. You're a journalist. You made a film about Kermit Gazznell. I don't even know.

There's no way. way even to describe that. But we can talk about that in just a moment. You're working on a film, or you've shot a film already about Hunter Biden. What is the title of that film? My Son Hunter, and that's coming out soon. More news on that quite soon. My Son Hunter, which is a film about Hunter Biden.

Today, however, we're talking about another one of your projects, which is a true crime podcast. So if people are interested in finding it, it is called serial killer, a true crime podcast. And the serial killer, of course, is Dr. Kermit Gosnell, the Philadelphia abortion doctor convicted of many, many, many murders in 2013. It's horrifying. So, Anne, talk about this. I'm not a big podcast listener. Some people listen to this program on podcast, but what is serial killer a true crime

podcast? Yeah, so the true crime genre in podcasts, as you say, on the conservative side, we have a lot of podcasts that are like radio shows on demand. So people listen to your podcast, to our podcast, and it's like radio on demand. However, there's this

other huge territory in the podcast world of narrative, dramatic, sort of documentary style podcasts. And one of the biggest sections of that is true crime. So for example, NPR did a show called Serial, a narrative story about a boy who killed his girlfriend and Muslim boy who killed his girlfriend. 450 million people downloaded it. And it's very high production values. They interview people in prison. And we thought, you know something, we have all these tapes of interviews with Kermit Gosnell, of interviews with the detectives, of interviews of victims, and it's pretty compelling stuff. And we're also still in touch with Kermit Gossel,

and we have interviewed him for hundreds of hours since he went to prison. And we're thinking this is actually a really compelling story that people who listen to true crime and like true crime would find fascinating. The guy was found by accident. Jim Wood, a detective who was undercover, was doing a drug, you know, a routine drug deal. drug investigation, discovered this doctor who was one of the biggest opioid sellers in the whole of Pennsylvania. And then, you know, they do a raid on the clinic. They walk in and they get this smell of death. And they're like, there's something else going on here. And it's a brilliant, it's an incredible story. And we tell it over six episodes with the main players telling their

part in putting this guy away. I want to be clear because I know there are many new listeners to this program or to my podcast. They're not familiar. because they haven't heard my conversations with you on the film that you made. But this is one of these stories of our time. It's one of the most gruesome and important stories of our time because there are many gruesome stories, but this story is extremely gruesome, but also extremely important because it highlights so many things

at the heart of our broken culture. And so for people who know nothing about Kermit Gazznell, Let's talk about that. My understanding, the surface level, is that this was a man who was operating one of the most – I mean, folks, this is like out of a novel. It's too horrific to imagine. But this is in a poor section of Philadelphia, praying on poor black women almost exclusively. And this is one of the most filthy. evil abortion clinics you could ever imagine. It's like out of Dickens. It's utterly horrifying. And this was going on year after year after year, and the authorities did nothing.

So that's one piece of this story. But, Anne, talk more, please, for my audience who doesn't know what happened. No, but that's a great introduction, by the way. This guy was operating in plain sight. I mean, that's an incredibly important part of this. peace. This guy operated for 30 years in plain sight. He did do legal abortions in a filthy, filthy, dirty place. However, he had a modus operandi of delivering bigger babies alive and then

cutting the necks with scissors. And he did this, according to the grand jury, thousands of times, which makes him America. Okay. But let's just go back for a second. Because I've never really understood this, I don't think. He was known that if you basically, are eight months pregnant, nine months pregnant. You can go to Kermit Gossnell and he will kill the baby. He did this. This was his, effectively, his specialty. If you really were stuck, he would do anything, including murder live children,

deliver them and then kill them. Hard for us to even talk about this. is a reality. This was going on year after year after year after year in a quote-unquote legal abortion facility operated by this monster, this serial killer. How did you come to this story? You and Phelam, how did you come to know about this story? So we made a documentary called Fract Nation and Phelam was doing screenings for people across Pennsylvania and he had a couple of days off and I don't know, you've met Phelam, right? He's just this veteran journalist. He just He always has a nose for a story.

He'd heard about some kind of thing that was going on in the courthouse, went down to the courthouse in Philadelphia. They had reserved the largest courtroom available because they presumed that the magnitude of this story would have attracted an enormous number of journalists. However, that's not at all what happened. In fact, it was like the Mary Celeste. He went in.

There was no one there in this massive courtroom. And he started to hear, and this is a guy who's covered war in Northern Ireland. I mean, he has covered some awful, gruesome stories. And he's sitting there, he's listening to the worst testimony he has ever heard, plus seeing these photographs of the babies, of the babies that were murdered, projected on a large screen in front of this jury. And he's thinking, what is going on here? And the most shocking thing for him was that the journalists weren't there. And in the front of the courtroom, you've got Kermit Gosnell smirking, which is kind of his thing, by the way. He's sort of smirking, sort of flirting with the stenographer.

And it's like he's thinking, what is going on here? And how is this not world news? I mean, I make the point all the time. Everyone on the planet Earth knows who Michael Brown is. Michael Brown was a thug who tried to beat a police officer to death, and he was shot dead. And it's sad that he died. But the world knows who he is.

People do not know who Samika Shaw is and a young African-American mother who died after a botched abortion in Kermit Gosnell's clinic. She was an innocent in comparison to Michael Brown, and no one's ever heard of her. And that's why this story needs to be told. And it needs to be told for lots of other reasons. I mean, one of the biggest points about this,

given the context we're in right now, in a post-Roe world, right? People are like, this is an outlier. I don't know why you're talking about Gosnell. This is an outlier. Well, it's not an outlier. I'll tell you how I know he's not an outlier. This happened in Pennsylvania.

Pennsylvania is very, very progressive. Pennsylvania has fabulous laws. They have a massive Department of Health, a massive Department of State, and every one of those bureaucrats knew there was something going on, and they ignored it. They ignored him. They protected him.

And what, you know, give me any reason, Eric, to believe that this not possible, that something like that's happening in California, in New York, in New Jersey, or all these other progressive places that just love abortion so much that you have to protect no matter what. Well, that's the point.

And that's why this is as important a story as there is. We can't talk about it enough because the mainstream media refuses to talk about it, just like they refuse to talk about the Hunter Biden laptop. This is journalists and political bureaucrats participating in evil, satanic evil. When you hear the details, you don't even have to believe in the satanic. realm to think this seems satanic. There is something particularly gruesome and horrific, monstrous about what Dr. Kermit Gossnell did, and they refused to cover it because it works against the narrative that they have sold their souls to tell. And the best way for people to go right now and

listen to some of the podcast is to go to serialkillerpod.com. Serialkillerpod.com. Listen to the first episode. We've got two episodes available so far. And worldwide, we're now, I think, at number 50 in true crime podcasts. We're coming down the charts, coming towards number, you know, to the top 10. That's where we, that's where our ambition is to get there. Okay. Because this is an incredibly important story. We're going to go to a break.

Folks, this is important. Share this with your friends. Serialkillerpod.com. It's serial killer, a true crime podcast, but you can go to serial killer pod. We've got to get the word out about this serial killer pod.com. We'll be right back. Hey there, folks. Eric Metax is here. As you know, our friend, and he's a real friend, Mike Lindell, has a passion to help everyone get the best sleep of their life. But he didn't stop by simply creating the best pillow. Now Mike has done it again by introducing his my slippers. My slippers. They're unbelievable. I know all about them. But I got to tell you, For limited time, you will save $90 on each pair of my slippers. They're expensive.

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The offer will not last long, so order now with promo code Eric at Mypillow.com or call 800 978-3057.80-8057. Folks, welcome back. I'm talking to Anne McElhany. Not to be confused with her husband, Phelam McAleer, journalists, real journalists, who actually do journalism. Hard to believe they still exist. But, Anne, you do exist. And you're doing journalism. You're doing it right now. You're talking about your new podcast. It's called Serial Killer, a True Crime podcast. And folks, you can find it at Serialkillerpod.com. There are tons of people out there who listen to true crime podcast. They love this stuff. And what could be more central than the issue of abortion?

Because right now we have people acting as though it's the most wonderful thing in the world. And let me just say, folks, if you listen to Serialkillerpod.com, if you go to Serial KillerPod.com, if you go to serial killer pod.com and listen to the story of Kermit Kossnell. It will change your view of abortion. Even if you're against abortion, you have no idea of the horrors that were going on in plain sight that people who don't care look the other way, they ought to be prosecuted for this. Let me ask, let me start there. and when you uncover the the monstrousness of what happened, again, some of it is just so sick,

is there any sense that there's anybody that will be held to account for this, for looking the other way, some of these bureaucratic officials who obviously chose not to deal with this? Yeah, no. I mean, I have no sense that anyone really was brought to book. And in fact, it's interesting. We tried to get in touch with people at the Department of Health to do. talk to them about what had happened since then. And they won't even talk to us. They won't even talk to us. They won't even allow themselves to be held accountable for what happened. And some of

them retired, you know, they took nice pensions and retired early. But nobody was really brought to book. They should go to prison. You know, it's funny. My father used to talk about people with pensionable jobs. He was a small businessman. He was always fascinated by people who had these pensionable jobs, these government jobs, the marvelous security that it ensured. And, you know, he would be really angry at the prospect of these people who had these beautiful jobs, well-paid jobs, sitting in the beautiful offices in Harrisburg, who wouldn't bother getting up to defend the defenseless, to get up and defend Samika Shaw, young African-American mother,

because they didn't want to drive into Philadelphia. They didn't want to drive in to a black neighborhood to defend these people. And these are the same people that were closing down nail salons. And the grand jury was very, very cross about that. They were like, yeah, you'd close down a nail salon, but you just didn't even get off your backside in Harrisburg when two women died, a refugee from Bhutan and a young African-American mother. And when the complaints against this guy were piled up to the sky

with all kinds of people writing, people handed in handwritten complaints, and still nothing was done. I mean, it's an extraordinary story, and it needs to be known very widely, and he needs to take his place in that infamous pantheon of most infamous serial killers, he's the worst. He's literally the worst. I mean, this is hard for us to believe, hard for us to say,

literally the worst. When you actually look at what happened, it is gruesome, it is satanic. Let's be clear, evil has always existed, and there have always been people very happy to sell their souls to the devil, for money. And that's what many of these people with these pensionable jobs did. They basically said, if I say nothing, I will be rewarded. All I have to do is look the other way when there's evil,

when there are people suffering, and that's what they did. And look, we know this happened in Germany in the 30s and 40s. It happened in America. We had the slave trade. We had slavery. Evil has always existed. But in our day, evil exists in this fashion. This is the story of our time. And what makes it so chilling again is because we always act as though, well, the world's getting better. People are evolving into more humane. We're getting nicer. Precisely the opposite. What we see is darker and darker that in the United States of America, this kind of thing could have been going on. And again, for people who are just tuning in, the podcast is called Serial Killer, a true crime podcast. You can find it at Serialkillerpod.com.

But, Ann, let's just go back for people who aren't familiar with what we're talking about. This was a doctor, Dr. Kermit Gossnell, operating a filthy, filthy clinic, quote unquote, in inner city Philadelphia, making a lot of money performing mostly late-term, abortions and the details are so gruesome that it is nonetheless shocking that somebody didn't look into this. It's hard. We understand that if it hadn't been abortion, somebody would have looked into it. But when it comes to abortion in the inner city, people like, well, you know what, that's what those people do. I mean, this is actual racism. This is genuine racism. People talk about racism. This is actual racism. But talk about some of the details.

of what was happening in this horrible, quote-unquote, clinic? Yeah, and by the way, on that point about the racism, it's the bigotry of low expectations, right? Absolutely. You know, if ever there were. Some of the details, so he, so it was filthy. I mean, when the cops raided the place, they said that the smell was like a wall,

the smell of, the smell of deaths. They walked in, there were caps walking around the procedure room. Dr. Gossel himself on the night of the raid was doing a procedure, came out of the procedure with torn bloody gloves and ate salmon terriaki. He fed his turtles. There were bodies piled up in the basement. The people who worked for him, none of them were qualified. There were people who had like a second or third grade education. They were barely literate and they were giving anesthesia.

They were administering anesthesia. They were administering anesthesia. And people died. And the best anesthesiologist was 16. Okay, folks, we've got a lot more. We're talking to Anne McElhenney, serial killer pod.com. Please check it out. Please share it, serial killer pod.com.

Folks, welcome back. I'm talking to Anne McElhenney. who with her husband, Phelam McAleer, has produced serial killer, a true crime podcast. Anne, you and Phelam, you're very creative in how you get this information out. And the idea of doing a true crime podcast like this, it is very creative. What's the response been so far? It's been really good, actually. I mean, we're climbing up the charts.

We started at something like 180 on the 200 best true crime podcasts in the world. I think we're at 50 right now. So when people listen, and I urge people, by the way, share this podcast with that young person in your life who you think needs to hear this. Because they are very open to podcasts. Say to them, look, you're going on the train. You've got that long journey in the car. Listen to this for me. And just tell me what you think after you listen to one episode.

Get them in on one episode. It's fascinating. I mean, it's an extraordinary story. And I think one of the things that we have to do now, it's amazing what happened last week. With the decision of Roe, it's amazing. But now the really hard work begins, because now the people will decide

what they think about abortion. And there are some very hard and hardened hearts out there. I'm sure you've seen some of the very disturbing footage of young people, you know, covered in blood, with bringing little dolls and shaking them and whatever. These are very hardened, hearted people who need to understand what's at stake here and what we're dealing with here.

And this podcast brings that in a real way. You realize, you know, it makes you start to realize what's actually legal in America, that it is legal in America to kill and to have abortions up to nine months. That that is legal in most populations. I was going to say, this cannot help but remind me

of the story I tell in my book Amazing Grace about William Wilberforce and the heroic campaign to end slavery. Wilberforce was dealing with a, exactly the same thing. Satanic evil. Slavery and the slave trade was so evil when you look at it, which obviously in my book Amazing Grace, I do. You can't believe that this happened in a quote-unquote civilized society like England that they allowed this to go on. Many people, of course, were ignorant of it. And this is the key. There are many people in America today who they shout

slogans and whatever. They have no idea of the bloody, gruesome, sick reality. that they are papering over with these terms like reproductive rights, complete nonsense. And when you look at it, it is so horrifying. You can't believe that this is countenanced in your culture. And that's why it's so important that people understand the reality of it, folks. If you care about women, you will find out that the abortion industry, it is as anti-woman as you can imagine. Don't buy the lies. So in this... That's a really good point.

That's a really good point, Eric. No, the point that you're making there, it's worth stopping for a moment. I do believe, I sincerely believe, that in our lifetime, probably in our lifetime, I hope in our lifetime, we will live to be in a time

where people will go, oh my God, can you believe we used to do this, that people will look back and say, oh, my God, in the same way as slavery. I mean, everyone thought slavery was a great idea at the time.

Most people thought it was a great idea at the time. By the way, eugenics was very popular in America, not that long ago. And now we look back in disbelief. We're going to look back in disbelief that we did this, that we would either suction out or pull out in parts little babies who are alive, who feel pain during the trial, by the way, and we have parts of the trial reenacted in the podcast. You know, abortion doctors, legal abortion doctors,

were asked to describe a legal abortion. And I can tell you that the jury, they gasped at what was legal. They couldn't believe what was legal. Even friends of my own who were highly qualified doctors in Ireland were aghast. They didn't know. They didn't know that this is how it was done. And it's an interesting thing. It just shows you how clever the abortion industry is, that they cover this up so effectively,

that people don't know. Even very informed people don't know. It's extraordinary. Well, as I was saying, it's dramatic parallels to the slave trade. Wilber Forrest was dealing with a nation that was largely ignorant of the horror of the slave trade. And so he realized it was his job, you know, not just to try to get the slave trade outlawed, but to educate your average person to understand what was legal, what was going on. And the more people see what's happening, the more they change their own.

mind. They said, I had no idea. I had no idea. I've heard these terms. I've heard these slogans. It's all very abstract. That's precisely what you have with the abortion industry is that once people are educated to the reality of it, there's no way they're going to remain where they were. There's just no way. So obviously, millions of dollars are being spent to keep people from getting this kind of information, which is why I'm so proud of you and Phelham for creating this serial killer pod.com. So say more, if you would, about what people will find in this. This is, I mean, is this Gossnell speaking about some of what he did? And he has a kind of cavalier attitude, I guess, about it. He thinks it's funny. Yeah, we get to hear from Kermit Gossel,

but we also, you know, and I just want to, because people might be listening to this and thinking, oh my God, I can't listen to this. The truth is it actually, it's very inspiring. Because the story is very much led by these incredible investigators, like these incredible cops, like Detective Jim Wood, this amazing guy from a family of 11. I just adore him. Like, we're obviously, I said to him a few years ago, well, basically we're related now. You know, friends forever. He's from an Irish family.

You can imagine. And also people like, you know, Steve Gockerty from the DEA and Jason Huff from the FBI. These are the people who lead the story. And Christine Wexler, one of the assistant district attorneys. this is who you hear from. And the other voices I think that you hear that you kind of get to hear in a way are the voices that have been up until now silenced.

The voice of baby boy A who died on the same day as my own father's birthday and I don't think it's accidental, July the 12th. And people saw him. They saw that baby and what happened to him and they watched him die and how he was murdered. And I think he can change the whole world. I know one girl who wrote to me,

she put it, she touched. and A on her arm so that she would always remember him, so that she would always pray for him. And I think that those lives need to be memorialised. We need to remember this. And the thousands and thousands of children who die every day in abortions legally in America. And to know, for example, people say,

oh, those second and third trimester abortions, they're very outliers. No, well, even based on the numbers we have, which, by the way, are very much of an estimate, but based on the numbers we have from the abortion industry, tens of thousands of babies of that age are aborted every year. We've got another segment, folks. Please go to serial killerpod.com.

Serialkillerpod. com. Share it. We'll be right back. Are you looking for a fun podcast? Well, may I recommend serial killerpod. com? Serialkillerpod.

There you will find the podcast called Serial Killer, a True Crime podcast. Anne McElheny is my guest. And this is very creative of you and your husband Phelam to create a true crime podcast about the story of Kermit Gossnell, which we're going to look back years from now. This is one of the stories of our time. It almost makes the story of Charles Manson seem banal. I mean, because this deals, well, for so many reasons. Describe, if you would, Gossnell, what it was that he did over literally decades in plain sight in a quote unquote legal abortion clinic, murdering children, nobody bothering to investigate.

it's like a it's like an epic novel of some kind. It's unbelievable. It's very frightening. And as I said, you know, at the top of the interview, I was saying,

you know, there's absolutely no reason for us to believe that this isn't happening in lots of places. Why wouldn't we think that? If it happened in Pennsylvania, why couldn't it happen in California

or New York, particularly in New York and California, where again, it's super, super progressive. There's loads of laws, apparently to protect people. However, How did it happen in total plain sight? And here's what he did.

This is a guy who, as you say, he prayed on very poor populations. But women did turn up there, by the way. Women turned up there, as you say, right up to the nine-month mark. And what he did was he would fill them up with site attack, basically. He would make them dilate over a three-day period, because obviously with those bigger babies, that's what he had to do. And on the third day, he had a time that they would come in on a Sunday when he and the wife were there.

So mostly the big babies were done on Sundays. That's according to the ground. grand jury investigation. And the babies would fall out. Basically, the babies would fall out at that stage. And he would lift the baby up and he would cut its neck with scissors. And if he wasn't there, the baby would fall out. He would have one of the people he trained.

So one of these people who was either had a drug addiction or an alcohol problem or some kind of social issue, lots of them had every kind of possible social ill was the concoction of these people that were working there. no offense to them, but you wouldn't, Jim Wood said you wouldn't allow them to mow your lawn, let alone give someone anesthesia. And he would have them trained to do the sniffing, as he called it, when he wasn't there. And we hear from some of them. I just have a question, you know, a rudimentary question, but these children are born and then murdered. Why, what was his reasoning in other words, if a child is born alive,

why did he feel that he must kill the child that had come out of its mother? That was the job. So the woman had come along wanting the baby to be killed. And what he did was, because in these later term abortions, it's quite complicated. It's quite a big surgery. And what's much easier is have the baby born alive,

have the baby fall out, and then just cut its neck with scissors. Much, much easier than having to inject the mother into the right spot, which is what it's legally done. That's what they do. Inject the heart of the baby, just like you do with a dog. You would put poison into the heart of a dog, in this case, in abortion. And then when the baby is dead, you pull out the parts.

That's what they do. And this is what they said in the trial, by the way. This is another reason why it was amazing that the trial wasn't covered, that journalists weren't wall to wall. And by the way, another thing that happened during the trial was they discovered this, one of the doctors described, they said to the doctor and one of the legal abortion doctors, what would happen if a baby was born alive?

And that doctor said, well, you know, we would, you know, comfort care. And they said, what is that? And she said, well, you know, keep it warm. Eventually it'll pass. In other words, neglect the baby to death. Yes, simply let it die in peace. We'll be right back for a final. segment talking, go to serialkillerpod.com.