The Eric Metaxas Show - Antonio Sabato Jr. and Robert Jeffress

Episode Date: October 1, 2021

Antonio Sabato Jr. has exciting news about "God's Not Dead: We the People"; then, Pastor Robert Jeffress provides encouragement with his new book, "Invincible."

to the Eric Mettaxas show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Uh-oh. It's time for Ask Mattaxas. You know what that means? Put a lot of pressure on me because it turns out I'm Metaxus. Yeah. I'm the one referred to in the title, Ask Metaxus. You ask me questions, and I answer them.

At least I try. Now, before we get to your questions, and the fun. I have to mention two things quickly. Alliance Defending Freedom. They defend our religious liberties. I am begging you, folks. We're doing a fundraiser with them.

Please, please go to Ericmataxis.com and give generously. The banner is there. These folks are the last line of defense. People always say, what can I do? I'm telling you, if you don't help folks like Alliance Defending Freedom, this is coming for all of us. It happens over and over again. People are in trouble.

They're losing their jobs. The Alliance Fending Freedom stands up for them. This is like insurance. Pay it forward. You know, do this. And then when the trouble comes to you or somebody you know, you're going to say, you know what, Alliance Offending Freedom, they can handle this. And by the way, I gave them $100 a month ago.

Folks, please, please, please, please. This is that Liberty is at stake. Alliance Offending Freedom. Go to the banner. It is Ericmetaxis.com. Sorry, metaxistalk.com. Please do that. And I also want to remind you, marriage is under attack.

There's a book called Endgame. 24% is the number. number of decrease in divorces across the entire city of Jacksonville, Florida, because the stuff in Endgame, Endgamebook.org is the website. Endgamebook.org, use the code, Eric. 24% is the decrease in divorce across the entire city of Jacksonville, Florida, because of what was in this book was employed in three churches in that area. Over three years, it went down 24%.

This is huge stuff. Okay, so don't forget, metaxis talk.com, ADF, we need your help, and don't forget, endgamebook.org. Okay, here we go. Ask Metaxus. Ready? Okay, go. Okay, first quirky question, what is your favorite color and city, non-sequitur?

I'm going to go with a mauve and Utica. Okay. No, wait a minute. My favorite color? Yeah. I don't know that I have a favorite. The other day, but I mean, color affects me powerfully. The other day I was at a hotel, I guess it was Chattanooga.

And the key card that they gave me was like a citron color. It was like a yellow. But I just thought, I just wanted to stare at it. It was that beautiful a color. And but, you know, if it was a little bit off, it wouldn't have that effect. But sometimes colors are amazing. I feel about a lot of blues also. Favorite city?

Well, if it ain't New York, what is it? Thank you very much. Okay. Now here's another, this is a serious question. Is atheism dead like mostly? Okay, now you're either dead or you're not. You're either pregnant or not. It's one of those things. Is atheism dead is a provocative? Now, in case you're just tuning in, that's the title of my new book. Is atheism dead? But I asked the question because there was a famous 1966 Time Magazine article that asks, is God dead? And I think so much information has come into the world since 1966, evidence for the existence of God and against the plausibility of atheism as a worldview that it's staggering. And so I would say intellectually, agnosticism ought to be alive, but atheism cannot be alive if you take.

seriously the facts. You have to look away from the facts to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist. And if you look away from the facts, how can you be intellectually fulfilled? Anyway, the details are in my book, but that's the general idea. Question three, why are you no longer on YouTube? Oh, I am on YouTube. It's just that the show has been knocked off of YouTube. In other words, 98% of what we do has been knocked off of YouTube. YouTube has singled me out because I'm vicious, the pornography, the cursing, they won't have any more of it.

And they knocked me off. It's kind of weird, folks. Honestly, I'm off of YouTube because I spoke about the stuff that everybody cares about. They want to know about what about vaccines? What about the election? I know that I have a right as an American, and I would say a duty, a duty as an American

and a duty as a Christian to speak the truth as I know it, to the best of my ability. So I've had guests on who've dared to talk about all kinds of things. YouTube horrifically decided not only was that unpalatable to them, but they must actually cancel the entire program. So that's one of the reasons I ask for every kind of help, because it's been devastating.

That's another story. Let's move on. Okay. Can you please interview 45? 45. You mean the record? The number? No.

I think it means presidential. Oh, the president? Yeah. Can I please interview President Trump? Yes. Yeah, I really would rather have bigger guests on the program. Folks, are you kidding me? I have a request out right now to interview him.

I'm going to interview him on this program. Actually, do me a favor, pray, because that would be a wonderful, fun thing. So, yes, I will, there are a lot of people that we try to interview, and it's just difficult to get them. So thank you. Here's a dovetail question off that one. Would you consider, would you consider running for political office? Would I consider it? Sure. Would I do it? I don't think so. I don't believe that that's what God has called me to do, at least not up to this point in my life. I've got a lot. I really believe God's called me to media. And that's my principal calling. So thank you. I hope you get there someday. Thank you. Exactly. Another atheism question is, is atheism dead? Will that be available audibly? I guess available on audio book. I already have read the entire book on tape.

That's something. But I read it in my own voice for you. So if you prefer to listen to the book, it will be available. Yes. The answer is yes. Okay. Have you considered hosting a Sartorial show? I love your sense of style. Wow. I don't know who wrote that, but I got to say that's very, very flattering. I've not been asked to host a Sartorial show. But if I could, if we had the budget and stuff, I would do segments along those lines. So, yeah, thanks for saying that. I think a satirical show is more along your lines. Yes. Okay, dating advice, how to know when to find the right person, question mark.

Wow. That's such a big one. Can we do that another time? That's a huge one. Let's mark that down next time. Okay. Okay, we'll mark it for next Thursday. Since you're a pretty regular runner, have you run any marathons or half marathons?

I'm so competitive that if I were to run races, it's like agony for me. So the answer is no, I have not. I have run farther than the distance of a half marathon. I mean, I don't know, once I think I ran 15 or 16 miles. But the point is that I don't like to, I don't like, I will eventually, but I haven't yet. The answer is no. Okay, Ann and I bumped into you running around the reservoir here in New York a couple times. Okay, sure.

Let's see here. 11. Favorite psalm. Favorite psalm. No, that's not 11. That's not 11. Classic fiction novel to step away from these worldly troubles for just a few moments. What would you? Oh, yeah. Well, I say this all the time. It's really healthy for us to watch movies or TV programs or to read fiction that takes us out of where we are. For me, often, it ends up being Turner Classic movies. If you watch a film from the 30s, It takes you into another universe or on the BBC or someplace, whether Netflix or Hulu or Amazon.

You know, if you watch a period piece, whether it's Jane Austen or Dickens, I think it's really healthy. Of course, the coolest thing is to read a novel. I have just about finished Brideshead Revisited by Evelyn Waugh. It's funny. I don't love it as much as I thought I would. But I think that there are so many books along these lines. lines. Where would I start? I don't actually, I don't know. That's another one. I feel like I'm embarrassed. I don't have a, I don't have a specific answer right now. Let's mark that down for next

week also. Okay, okay. And here we go. Last question. How do you say I'm in a hurry in Greek? Actually, this is no joke. I asked my cousin Yangos this question and it's all videotaped. I think we need to put the videotape up because it's the funniest thing ever. I said to him, I'm like, we're in a hurry. How do you say that in Greek? I couldn't remember. And he said, Viasume. Vyazume.

But then he paused, and in the way that only Yongos can do, he said, but also this phrase can mean I am being raped. And I was like, what? What? And he says, yes, the word. Anyway, Vyazuma, thanks a lot. Hey, folks, do you wish you remembered names better and thought more clearly? Hey, improve your memory with Vivalour. Memory support.

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That's 40% off with code 3-4-0. The makers pray that God's glory rests on every pill. V-V-L-O-R.com. Hey, folks. He was named one of the most sexy men alive, according to People magazine. I know you think they're talking about me. No. It's actually my guest. My guest is Antonio Sabato, Jr. I have to lead with something stupid, Antonio. You've got to forgive me. You're a man, man. Thank you very much for having me on your show.

That's fun. Well, people magazine's always wrong, so they were wrong about it. They should have put it. I know. No, they were going to put me in, but you know what? I wasn't willing to grease the palms. You know what I'm saying? Otherwise, I'd be in there.

I'd be in there. Come on. All right. So seriously, you know, you have a background. I mean, you've got an amazing. story. You grew up in Rome and you immigrated to the United States of America, became an American citizen. You've had a successful career as an actor, as a model, and now you're in a film, which is why you're here today, that I'm really excited about. Tell us about this film,

because I actually was going to say that we need to be inspired. We're going through tough times in America, and people need to know, what do I do? What is my job today as an American? Things are going to hell in a handbasket. Our liberties are being challenged. What do I do? And I want to say to people, if you don't have time to read my books about heroes, you can watch a film. And this is why you're here. Yeah. Well, God is Not Dead. We The People, it's a movie that needs to be seen by everyone, by the world, and especially the American people.

Go to God's Not Dead.com and purchase the tickets because this movie is only going to be out for a few days, the beginning of October, the 4th, the 5th, and the 6th. So go to gods.com and then get your tickets because there's certain times in entertainment world where you have a movie that is going to impact a lot of lives. And right now our freedom has been taken away slowly but surely. And this country is turning out to be a socialist country. And that's a very dangerous place to be because, first of all you give too much power to government. They make decisions for you. And all of a sudden they take advantage of you. They take your money and they do absolutely nothing in return.

That's communism, the socialism. Actually, it's worse than doing nothing in return. They take your money and use it against you, which is really horrifying. Well, that's why I was excited to talk to you because I thought this is a film that actually deals with what we're living through right now. And what should our response be? So, folks, you're familiar with the franchise, God's Not Dead. You don't have to have seen the previous movies to see this one. This is God's Not Dead, We the People.

So you just mentioned it's out three days, October 4th, 5th, and 6th. You can go to God's Not Dead.com and find out where it's playing. So what is the film about and what character do you play? Well, I pretty much play myself because I put myself on the line in this character because I can relate so much of it. But this is a parent, a father, and a husband who's trying to protect his family, who's educating his family through the biblical terms, using homeschooling as a place where their children can be raised under what is right for the children

placed on by God and the parents, the decision of these parents. And they're being confronted by the government. The government is actually infiltrating in through their lives and saying, you cannot teach these biblical terms in a homeschooling setting, depending on this, this, this, and that. And they're confronted by that. And these are real lives, real families that is happening in our country all over the place, and all kinds of levels.

And we have to stand up to that because as Christians, as followers of Christ, we need to stand up for what is right for our future, for the future of our children. And so this family is confronted by this, and they take it all the way to the Supreme Court to fight against what is right, what is given by us through God by God.

And this is happening. So it's a very relevant movie, not so much if you're a Christian or a non-Christian, but it's a fact of your freedom. How would you relate if they're knocking on your door, they're demanding things from you, and you have no choice but to give it to them? And we are living in those times right now.

And the Bible says it all. And so we are fighting for that. So as an actor, as a performer, to get inside this role was a pleasure. And I think everyone felt the same. And we're happy with this film. It's really entertaining and educational for everyone to see. Now, you have three kids.

Yeah, I do. You have three kids. And I know that when you have kids, it changes everything because you start. I mean, maybe you wouldn't do something for yourself, but when they're on the line, the idea that the government has gotten to a place where it is basically pushing against parents and daring to say any number of things, that they know better than the parents. Now, anybody who understands how our government works knows that's exactly backwards. The people are free.

The parents and families have total control. And then they, because we're busy, we say, we're going to pay teachers to teach our kids. We're going to pay somebody to pave the road because I don't have time to pave the road. We have government as a role. But we are the ones that call the shots. That's how the founders put it in the Constitution. And so now the government has gotten so big and people have really gotten so ignorant of what is America, what is freedom, that when people say, hey, we're going to, we're the government.

we say your daughter can get an abortion doesn't have to tell you. We say your kids are going to get the shot in school for this or for that. You don't need to know about it. We say that your kid has the right to get gender reassignment, surgery, or whatever. And you as the parents have no say. Now, if you're an American, you understand that is completely wrong, but you have to fight. If you don't fight, it's on you. Because if you let it happen, like you go, well, the powers that be.

But, I mean, this movie, the reason I'm excited is because this is one of those stories. It's like, as they say, ripped out of the headlines, and it's going to be in theaters. You said, three days. Right. The 4th, October 4th, the 5th, and the 6th. And you have to get your tickets right away because they're selling out quick. And this is, like I said, this is a type of film that is, you know, God makes these things happen in amazing ways. It's coming out at the right time, at the right place.

And I think people are going to, you know, people are going to love it because at, At the end of the day, we've been confronted as Americans more than ever, and the rest of the world is following and is following in the wrong steps. And I see it happening in Australia. I see it happening all over the world where they're taking this initiative of deciding what is right for the people, closing people's lives. I mean, shutting down businesses and livelihood because of what the power that they was given to them. And this movie is a movie where the people fight back. we the people make make these decisions. That's why America is the greatest country in the world

is because we have those laws and they're trying to change those laws. And, you know, I hope to God that they never do because those 26 amendments, especially with the first and the second, a very, very important amendments and laws, abiding laws for us as God-giving, you know, children of God that if you take that away,

there's not going to be any freedom, period. I always say that the reason, this is even happening is because we Americans have been so blessed that we have even lost sight that any price was ever paid. We think this is normal. And we know, you know, and I know, this is not normal. The freedoms that we have had for decades and decades. This is completely anomalous in the history of the world. Most people around the world have to bow to some political power. We haven't had to do that. But we got so used to this that we kind of thought, this is normal and we could just take our eyes off the ball. And then suddenly we're getting gigantic pushback that we really didn't expect.

We weren't prepared for it. And a lot of people weren't prepared to fight. But people are waking up. I mean, you have to admit, some people are really waking up finally because things have gotten so bad that they think, wait a minute, maybe I need to do something. I hope so. I really do because we, like I said, you know, we have, what, three more years of this nonsense. It's only getting worse every single day. You don't think Biden is going to survive this presidency.

I don't think that's going to happen. Well, it's who else is there. I think both parties are wrong. I think all political figures for most part who are making a lot of money. Look at the bank accounts of all these politicians who are multi-millionaires. Don't mention. Do not mention the name Mitch McConnell, okay? I don't want to get sued.

Go ahead. I have met them all. I was in that world for a brief time, and I've seen what the devil works is all about. and it's on the political arena and what they're doing to the American people is a disgrace. Both parties are. So we as people have to kind of reevaluate everything.

I have to sit back and go, you know, what are our values anymore as Americans? You know, do we really appreciate this land? Do we really respect this land? Do we really respect the laws? Do we really want to put these people in power who are deciding for our future and our safety? And the answer is, you know,

we have to go from from scratch. We have to restart everything because it's all a pile of, like, just nonsense and evil from both parties, from both ways. Well, no, you're right. And I'm much more angry, of course, at the Republicans because they're the ones you expect to stand up. There's just a handful that are being heroic. You've got Josh Hawley. You've got Devin Nunes. You have Ted Cruz.

Just just a few more. But the rest of them seem to be doing what people do. They say it's about me, it's about my power, it's about staying in power. I don't want to do anything heroic. And even people that I would consider, you know, good guys or whatever, even they, when the moment comes, they falter. They bow to political pressure or whatever it is. In any event, we're proud of you, Antonio Sabato Jr. for speaking out. Thanks for making this film, folks.

It's God's Not Dead. We the People. you need to go to God's Not Dead the website and sign up for tickets October 4th, 5th, and 6th. Please check it out. We need to tell our friends and neighbors to go to this and get a conversation going. Antonio, God bless you. Thank you so much. Thank you very much.

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Go to relieffactor.com, relief factor.com or call 800, 500, 800,000, 800, 800, 800, 800, 8384 relief factor.com. I use it. It works. Hey there, folks. It is my joy to welcome back to the program of friend, Pastor Robert, Jeffress. You've seen him here. You've seen him there. He's the senior pastor of First Baptist Church in Dallas, which is something to behold. If you get to Dallas, you want to visit First Baptist. But Dr. Jeffers, welcome and congratulations on your new book. Well, thank you, Eric.

We appreciate your having us. Well, the book is titled Invincible? Invincible. Why is the book titled? That's a safe interviewer question, but I wanted to ask you because I feel like the answer to that question. question will lead us in the right direction. Well, Eric, I called it invincible because that's the spirit God wants us to have amidst the challenges we're facing. You know, Romans 837 says we can be more than conquerors. And the subtitle of the book is conquering the mountains that separate you

from the blessed life. In the Bible, mountains were always obstacles that separated God's people from God's blessing. And over these last 18 months with the pandemic, with a pandemic, with civil unrest, political division. We've had our own share of mountains that Christians have dealt with. And I talk about these mountains, 10 of them in the book, worry, fear, loneliness, grief. And while it's true that we can't remove those mountains from ever, we can conquer them. And this book is about how, with God's help, we can conquer the mountains everybody faces every day. So if you've ever worried, if you've ever been fearful, if you've lost anything important to you or ever felt lonely, only this book is for you. The book is invincible conquering the mountains that separate you from

the blessed life. Well, I have to say, the older I get, the more it strikes me that being a Christian genuinely, it's about the life of the mind. In other words, if your mind is not fixed on God and his promises and his hope and the reality, the hopeful reality of God, you're dead because things are going to mount up. Everybody has problems. But I do feel there are a lot of people that they would say, well, I'm a Christian, I believe, but they're nowhere near this. I mean, what are the, how do people get around that? Because I feel like if they're not attending a vibrant church where they're hearing this stuff at least once a week, if they're not reading books like this, the culture doesn't give us even a hint of how we are to abide in Christ.

It doesn't even, it militates against it. Well, it does. And, you know, you hit on one of the things that I think has been such a challenge these 18 months. So many people, Christians, have been cut off from one another, and they've been separated from their church. And what I have found is, you know, Satan doesn't come up with any new tricks. He doesn't have to. The old ones work just fine. And he always has the same strategy to defeat Christians, and that is divide them, isolate them and then attack them. And I think you're on to something that the way we're going to have victory, there's strength in numbers. That's why Solomon said two or better than one, and a court of three strains is not easily broken. And I can't say this strongly enough, Eric, you know, there is no

once-for-all prayer that will remove worry from your life. There's no once-for-all solution to fear. again, Jesus said, if you have the faith as tiny as a mustard seed, you can move mountains. He wasn't speaking literally, but he was speaking truthfully. These mountains may not be able to be moved completely, but they can be conquered. And that's what I'm doing in this book. This isn't positive thinking, mumbo-jumbo. We may talk about worry in a minute. There's some specific guidelines Jesus gives you for overcoming worry or fear or loneliness,

and only when we apply those principles can we really conquer our mountains. And that's what my book Invincibles about. Well, let's talk about worry, anxiety. Practically my favorite scripture is be anxious for nothing, but in all things by prayer and supplication with Thanksgiving, make your request known to the Lord. I mean, that is, if you live there, be anxious for nothing. So most of us are going to have plenty reasons we think we have the right to be anxious.

but the scripture says no, literally be anxious for nothing. So God seems to be saying pretty clearly in that statement that there is a way for us to deal with anxiety that honors him. What is that? Well, we talk about that in the book, because one thing we've seen over the last two years is anxiety is at the highest level it's ever been among Christians. We worry about everything. Some of our worry is, I mean, well-founded.

I mean, there are things to be concerned about. But when the Bible talks about not worrying, it's talking about this paralyzing kind of fear. Eric, I don't know if you've ever had this happen. You're having a productive day at work or maybe even a great day worshiping where this alien fear comes into your mind. And it always begins with what if. You know, what if I get sick? What if I lose my job? What if my kids rebel?

And you don't feel like reading your Bible, going to church or anything. That doesn't come from God. That comes from Satan. And if there's one thing I could encourage you to do, it would be from your passage that you quoted. Paul said, don't worry about anything. Instead, pray about everything. He doesn't just say, don't worry, don't worry, don't worry. That's like telling somebody don't think about a pink elephant.

Well, that's what they're going to do unless you give them something else to think about. He says, pray about everything. My friend David Jeremiah has a great suggestion. He says, take out a piece of paper, write at the top of it, my worry list, and then list everything you can think of to worry about. It may take two or three pages. But when you have exhausted everything you're worried about, take your pen, scratch out the word worry, and write in the word prayer.

Turn your worry list into your prayer list. And the promises you just recited the peace of God will guard your hearts. This is, folks, in case you're curious, this is called basic Christianity. This is not extra credit. You claim to be Christian. This is how we need to live. We need to live this way. We'll be right back.

The latest reporting and analysis on the big stories of the day. On the daybreak insider podcast, it's top-notch reporting from SRN News, along with the sharpest insight from Hugh Hewitt, Mike Gallagher, Dennis Prager, Sebastian Gorka, and the voice of townhall.com, the daybreak insider podcast. It's your first look at today's top stories. Available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google, and at Salem Podcast Network.com. Folks, welcome back. I'm talking to my friend Pastor Robert Jeffress, who's in Dallas and who has a new book out called Invincible Conquering the Mountains that Separate You from the Blessed Life. Pastor Jeffers, you just said that our friend, Dr. David Jeremiah had this beautiful idea.

This is exactly right. Make a list of all your worries and then change it from worries to prayer and pray about them. If people have nothing to do, they worry naturally. It's what we do. It's our fallen nature. We worry. So God says, okay, that's fine. You're worrying because those things are real.

So here's what you need to do. You need to pray about those things. So it's an active thing. It's not simply, as you said, don't worry. it's like, you know, don't worry, be happy. That's idiotic because there are good things to worry about. The point is, rather than worry about them, God says, no, don't worry about them. If they're worth worrying about, they're worth praying about.

And I know you cover that in the book Invincible. What else do you talk about in the book, these different mountains? Well, you know, the first cousin of worry is fear. And we talk about also conquering the mountain of fear. You know, if we were to ask your audience, Eric, can you name one thing you know God wants you to do that would lead to a more successful life? I think every one of us could think of one thing we could do that we know God would want us to start doing. And then you ask somebody, well, what's keeping you from doing that one thing you know God wants you to do? And the answer is, well, I'm afraid that.

I'm afraid that if I do it, I'll be unsuccessful. I'm afraid my wife won't understand. I'm afraid friends will reject me. Fear is a mountain that separates us from God's best. It was the same way with Israelites. I mean, God told them to go into the promised land, but they were going to have to fight for every square inch of it. They send the reconnaissance team in, and, you know, they came back.

All 12 had the same report. There are giants in the land, and they were. But 10 of the people said 10 of the giants are too mighty for us to overtake them. The problem was that they were comparing the giants they faced to their own ability. They were using the wrong standard of comparison. They should have been comparing the challenge they faced with the power of God. You know, I tell people, Eric, the tallest building in the world isn't in New York City where you are. It's in Dubai.

It's 2,700 feet tall. It's the largest building in the world. But compared to Mount Everest, 29,000 feet, it's not. nothing but a mole hill. Our tendency is to turn our mole hills into mountains. God said, if you'll trust my power, I'll turn your mountains into mole hills. So we've got to be sure we have the right standard of comparison when we're evaluating whatever standard or challenge we're facing. Well, we see this every day. I was just talking to a friend who said that he witnesses healing miracles and the doctors who have themselves witnessed it often are afraid to speak out because

they're afraid of what their colleagues would think. And I think, wow, don't they believe that God would want them to do the right thing and that they can trust their medical reputation with God? But a lot of people, they don't have that kind of faith. They feel like that's extra credit faith. Well, that's right. And look, my personal belief, I'm preaching through the book of Acts right now. I certainly believe in faith healing. I don't believe in faith healers. There's a difference. And God doesn't need a middleman. He can heal directly, and he chooses, and he can do so if he chooses. And he can perform all kind of miraculous acts. I tell the story in my book Invincible about my own daughter. She had suffered three miscarriages. They were devastated over it. And my daughter began praying that God would give them triplets, one life to replace every life that was lost.

I said, Julia, don't pray for triplets. You're only going to be disappointed. We don't have that in our family. Great man of faith, right, Eric? But my daughter said, Dad, if you want to see God do big things, you've got to pray big things. She prayed, and God gave them triplets. And it's a testimony to God's ability to do above and beyond any that we asked. I was waiting for the punchline, and God gave them four triplets. Just kidding. You know, sometimes I really believe the Holy Spirit leads to God. us to pray certain things because the Lord wants to fulfill them, but he wants us to participate in it. But what a story. I had not heard that story. That is beautiful. Yes, people fear, disappointment. I mean, listen, a lot of times we don't pray for somebody's healing, let's say, because they think,

well, nothing's going to happen. And you think, well, that's just not the way to operate, folks. Even if nothing happens, just do what God asks you to do. Be obedient. And let's talk about bitterness, because that's another big one. A lot of people nurse bitterness. Yeah, and I'd have to say if I were going to measure these 10 mountains, I talk about invisible and invincible. Bitterness, unforgiveness would be the tallest of the mountains because nothing blocks us from God's blessing any more than bitterness. Jesus said it very clearly, Eric. He said, if you don't forgive others, neither will my Heavenly Father forgive you?

And, you know, I think the key to forgiveness is to realize that forgiveness is the obligation of those of us who have been forgiven. It's impossible to give away what you haven't experienced. Jesus told the parable about the slave who owed his master what amounts to about $10 billion in today's currency. The slave, the master forgave him. He went out and found a fellow slave who owed him $16. and refused to forgive him. And he was thrown into prison, and Jesus said,

So shall my Heavenly Father, due to you if you don't forgive one another from your heart. He who refuses to forgive destroys the bridge over which he must one day pass. So I think it's a key to forgiveness, realizing it's our obligation given what God has forgiven us of. Well, I think forgiveness is one of the most misunderstood concepts. I mean, I was how with laughter. I think it was a couple of years ago at the National Prayer Breakfast. Arthur Brooks was talking about, you know, forgiving your enemies and forgiving. And President Trump got up and effectively said, like, that doesn't make any sense to me, but thank you. And I laughed because the way Arthur had put it, I could see how somebody who doesn't really understand

exactly what the scripture says would take it as foolish, basically. Well, that's true. In other words, it's not forgiving the way the world's forget. It's not saying what happened doesn't matter or I'm going to just pretend, I'm going to pretend that it doesn't matter. It's a kind of a, we're going to go to a break. Folks, I just, to finish my thought, that basically when we talk about forgiving our enemies or forgiving, it's not the way the world would do it and just say, oh, it doesn't matter. It matters. But if you understand what God did for you, it gives you an ability to do it. The book is invincible. We will be right back. Final segment with Pastor Robert Jeffress.

I ain't ready for the altar, but I do agree this time. I'm sure can be a friend of mine. Hey there, folks. I'm talking to the author of Invincible Conquering the Mountains that Separate You from the Blessed Life, Pastor Robert Jeffers. We were just talking about forgiveness and how some people don't really understand what that means. They think, how could I possibly forgive whatever it was? I was raped. as a child, and I'm supposed to give that. That's prepostera. So what is the biblical response to that? Well, what I talk about an invincible list, when we talk about forgiveness, we're not talking about

denial. I mean, it's not sweeping something under the rug and playing like it didn't happen. When Joseph confronted his brothers who had sold him to slavery, remember what he said to them? He said, you meant it for evil, but God used it for good. He said what you did was wrong. In fact, Eric, it's impossible to forgive people you're not willing to blame. You have to blame somebody first before you can forgive that. Oh, that's a big one. Say that again. That's a really big one. Please repeat that. You can't forgive people. You're not willing to blame. Forgiveness is an act by which you let go of a very real debt somebody owes you. Forgiveness is giving up your right to hurt somebody else for hurting you. Forgiveness doesn't mean giving up

your desire for justice. If somebody rapes you, if a man rapes a woman, the woman isn't giving up her desire to see that person go to jail, suffer for what he's done. But she's giving up her right to hurt the other people. She's allowing God or the agents God may choose to bring justice. That's the difference between vengeance and justice. One other thing, Eric, forgiveness doesn't always result in reconciliation. There's a difference between forgiveness, and reconciliation. Lewis Meade said, forgiveness has no strings attached to it. Reconciliation has many strings attached to it. Forgiveness depends upon me alone. Reconciliation depends upon us. And the greatest truth about forgiveness I talk about in the book Invincible is this. When we forgive,

we set the prisoner free, and the prisoner we set free is us. That's, I mean, you hear this, and yet I think people don't realize the power of God. In other words, if you do an act in obedience to God, you need to be expectant that God wants to bless you. He's waiting for you to do that so that he can bless you, but he won't force you to do it. And there's just something beautiful about that, knowing that God will take care of it. I don't have to worry about it anymore if I have dealt with it in that way. We've just got a minute or so left. Let's talk a moment, just about guilt. That's another mountain. A lot of people, Christians in particular, they act like this is a good thing for me to be guilty about some bad thing. That's not what the scripture says,

is it? No, it's not at all. And again, guilt, whether it's real guilt or misplaced guilt, separates us from God. And, you know, there's a guilt that non-Christians feel. It's a very real guilt. Sin has become a barrier between God and us and the death of Christ on the cross. is what wipes away our sin. But Eric, there's another kind of guilt that many Christians feel, and that is guilt over their continued sin against God. And while our sins as Christians don't separate us from God, God doesn't change his position. It causes us to move away from God. You know, the old story about the couple that had been married for 25 years, they were going to dinner, and the wife said, look at us. We used to sit so close together in the car. And the car,

snuggle up to one another, and now look, you're over there, and I'm over here, and the husband sitting behind the steering wheel said, well, I haven't moved. And, you know, the fact is, when we sin as Christians, it's not that God moves away from us, but we move away from him. And we talk about the way to resolve that guilt we all feel. Well, the book is invincible, conquering the mountains that separate you from the blessed life. Pastor Robert Jeffers, thank you for doing all you do, and thank you for this book. God bless you. Thanks for having me, Eric.