The Eric Metaxas Show - April Lee Hernandez (Encore)

Episode Date: January 24, 2025

“Freedom Writers” movie actor April Hernandez-Castillo bravely shares a very personal story about her visit to an abortion facility at age 19 as part of our Miracle Monday series.

Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Eric Mataxis show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you can protect your wealth with noble gold investments. That's noble gold investments.com. Welcome to the Eric Mataxis show. Did you ever see the movie The Blobs starring Steve McQueen? The blood-curdling threat of the blob. Well, way back when Eric had a small part in that film, but they had a kid. cut his scene because the blob was supposed

to eat him, but he kept spitting him out. Oh, the whole thing was just a disaster. Anyway, here's the guy who's not always that easy to digest. Eric the Texas! Folks, today is the day. Today, Donald Trump

was inaugurated. Praise God. Also, it's Monday. So we're rerunning one of the best interviews I've had on this show with my friend April Hernandez, because this week is the March for Life, her story, it is a total miracle story. So we're going to run that right now for you. Actually, no, before that, we're going to talk to our friends at Inspire Advisors.

This is encouraging. I hope it prompts you to take action. So we're going to run that now. And then for the rest of the day, one of the best interviews that I've had on this program. You can read about it in my Miracles book, but it's much more fun to hear me actually talk to April about it. She is just a delightful human being. So, yeah, let's roll it and God bless America. Folks, welcome back.

As you know, every now and again, I want to give you some encouragement because I get encouraged and inspired by our friends at Inspire Investing. Robert Netsley, who's the head of that, is my guest right now. Now, Robert, welcome back. Let's be here, Eric, as always. Thanks for having me. Every time I have you on, I get excited about what you guys are doing, and I want to tell my audience, because most of us, we're living our lives, we kind of wonder, is anybody on this stuff?

Is anybody holding these gigantic corporations to account for their woke lunacy? Is there anybody out there? You are out there, and I'm amazed and forgive me for gushing, but this is so important because we always talk about politics, we talk about all this different stuff. This is as important as anything going on in America right now. So today I want to talk to you about Apple. Everybody, our lives are touched by Apple.

We've spent most of us thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars buying Apple computers, phones, whatever. And they have been ridiculously woke. horribly woke. So what do you guys at inspire investing doing about it? I know the answer to this, but I want you to tell my audience because this is amazing. Yeah. Well, there's many things, but the one thing in particular that is just on the front burner right now is a shareholder resolution that we have with Apple. And it's pushing for transparency in their corporate giving, their philanthropy. You know, they've got gobs of money that they give away every year. And

a lot of that is going to places that, you know, most of their customers, most of their employees probably would be uncomfortable with because, you know, they're really fringe kind of extremist groups like the Southern Property Law Center, Center for American Progress, quote-unquote, you know, on down the list. And, you know, Yet, they forbid donations to faith-based organizations. Go figure, right? So it's not really a fair, just equitable, tolerant, inclusive giving program. And, you know, they're entitled to have their giving program set up however they want,

their company. But they need to be transparent to their shareholders. And so that's what we're asking for is transparency on where their money is going. in fact where our money as shareholders are going these executives make these decisions it's not really their money it's uh it's the shareholders money so we want to know where it's going and we can decide whether we want to continue to be sharing be shareholders or not and if they don't like that the limelight shined on where they're giving money then maybe they should change where they're giving the money well i mean which which brings us to another aspect of what you guys do you you try to

help uh you know listeners to this program for example figure out am i do i have a you know a 4 1k or do something something out there that is investing in these companies that are pushing dramatic woke agendas and a lot of people listening right now folks your money is helping whether it's apple or whoever else do things that are absolutely against american values your values and so you need to know about that so i want to say before we continue the conversation about what you guys are doing with Apple. If you're interested folks in whether your money is like serving the devil's purposes, if I can cut to the chase, go to the website, inspireadvisors.com slash Eric, and they will help

you figure out whether your money is funding things, companies that are woke, whether your money is invested there. You don't want it to be invested there. So you want to know, so go to Inspire hire advisors.com slash Eric, they will give you a free report to let you know. This is very important. How we spend our money, where we invest our money is gigantically important. And so, I mean, it's funny, Robert, because I was just thinking about this the other day, Starbucks, Amazon, like they do a great job of providing services, but they are often super woke. And so they're using these profits to undermine what most of us believe in. We've got to hold

them accountable. So you guys do that. And so you've filed a resolution at Apple. So I'm applauding you. It's amazing. So talk about this. You filed a resolution. I'm just amazed that you did this. It's wonderful. Yeah, one of many. And it's, you know, it's inspiring to know that we can actually have a difference. Sometimes we think, you know, that our faith-based voices or conservative voices are sort of not heard in or not able to be heard in the corporate boardrooms, but it's not true. So we filed this resolution to push for transparency around corporate giving. And so last fall, we filed the resolution about a month later, the legal executives of Apple reached out and said, hey, we'd like to talk about this. You know, they don't like resolution.

showing up on the ballot, particularly around thorny issues like, you know, where they're giving away shareholders money to, you know, ideological causes. And so they told us that they're in, you know, listening mode. And I think, I believe they are. They're actually listening, especially when you look around and see all the, all the hubbub, let's say, regarded really regarding DEI and ESG and the rollbacks that major, other major companies or having in those areas, they're feeling the heat. This is not popular for an increasing number of people

and just common sense that they would be transparent around their giving. So I'm optimistic that we'll be able to get some traction with them. There's one organization in particular, human rights campaign that they've been giving, they've given money to. They're, I think, a platinum sponsor of the human rights campaign. That's been in the direct bullseye of a lot of,

of the DEI rollbacks at companies like Walmart and other, you know, very large companies. And one of the most outspoken activists for the LGBT woke sort of causes. And Apple's been a major supporter. So they need to, you know, be forthcoming about those things. And anyway, they're enlisting mode. They're having constructive dialogue with us. And we'll see where it goes. but it's a good time to be doing what we're doing and more companies day by day are listening.

And as we, you know, our movement grows, we're managing, you know, $3.2 billion at this point. We're growing like weed. You know, nobody, 10 years ago, and we started out with this thought we were going to manage any sort of money, you know, from the Manhattan Wall Street crowd. Because who believes in biblical values anymore was the mock. And yet there are trillions dollars controlled by people who, who profess to believe the Bible, profess to have, you know, conservative values. And the more we move our money in line with what we state what our values are, the more impact we can have in these corporations.

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use code metaxis at check out that shop beam.com slash metaxis use code metaxis for up to 40% off hey there folks it's the eric metaxis show i'm sitting here with my friend april hernandez castillo um and this is an important story so you're you're 19 you go in there so you say you're crying now uh because i'm not crying i'm sobbing you're okay this is important because You're sobbing. You walk in there as a kid because my daughter is 19. So like if you're sobbing, but nobody's there to comfort you, the people there that they... The front desk. She just was like a zombie, just cold. No one was there. I could barely answer any of the questions. I believe someone came over and they were like, do you need help? And I was like, no, I have it because I just didn't know what to do. Do you ever think that, I don't know the color of the skin of the receptionist, but what I'm saying is like, I think there's a mindset that you come in there and it's like it's a same old story. It's a brown skin, black skin, whatever.

But like you're a kid, like, I don't want to hear the story, you know. Like it's almost like they're looking down on you as a type. Like you're typical. Well, that's their way of disconnecting from the situation. If you don't, then you'll be consumed by every emotion that every girl has. So that's their way of just protecting themselves. But I'm saying like the natural thing when you see a 19-year-old sobbing is to put your arm around her and ask her, how can I help you? Is everything okay?

What it was going to? But okay, so you walk in there, you get none of this, how are you going to pay? You give them $400. $400. That's a lot of money for a 19-year-old. Yes. I don't even know how I was able to find the cash, but I was able to find it very fast. And then you're there for hours because it's a process.

So you're there. You can't eat. You can't drink water. You can't do anything. So basically you're starving all day. Wait a minute. So you got there in the morning? You get there at like as early as maybe 7 o'clock in the morning, 8 o'clock.

And then I didn't leave maybe until 3 o'clock. Wait, so you're in the waiting room with all these other young girls? Yes. And what is happening there? You're just waiting. And then they call a girl and then they're. they abort the baby and then you go and you're next and it's just it's funny because when you're there and you see a girl go in and then come out it's just another baby it's it's

this is a thing that no one really wants to talk about um because i get the whole rights issue but i always ask people have you ever walked into an abortion clinic have you ever seen sat there and looked at the people who were getting abortions that maybe if there were other options, they wouldn't have this option, or maybe if there was a way to just talk to them, right? But once again, I think once a woman makes up her mind, her mind is usually just like, I'm focused, I'm doing this, and I get it because that was me, that was myself. So I go in, you get called a couple of times, and then I remember going in and the sonogram. You get a sonogram to make sure the baby is there.

Now, wait a second. I'm surprised to hear this. They give you a sonogram. Do you see the sonogram? They don't usually show, but I saw. Okay. They're not supposed to show you because they know that if you see, I mean, look. You can change your mind because.

Most people, most women, when they see what is in them, suddenly they don't want to do this. That's most women. I don't think she, I don't think she, meant to allow me to see it. I think I just happened to see the baby. I guarantee you she did not mean for you to see it. And when I saw the sonogram and I saw the baby. Do you know how far along you were if I can ask that?

Yes, I was eight weeks. Okay. So at this point right now, the baby at eight weeks has a spine, has a heartbeat. It's just a baby. It's a baby. But when you don't know this, you just think it's just, you know, it's just blood. See, most people would think eight weeks. There's nothing there.

It's a clump of cells. No, no, it's not a clump of cells. It's actually forming. There's a spine. There's because I'm a mother now, you see everything. And even after becoming a mother, there was never a time where I would not look at my sonogram and not think of what I saw, especially at eight weeks. So you're in the room now. But you say you've been waiting all day.

You're hungry. You can't eat anything. You can't have any water just because, you know, if they don't know how you'll react, once you go under anesthesia. So you go under anesthesia. And so it was my turn to finally go. And I just remember walking. And I felt like the longest walk of my life.

And I get into the room and there's just like spots. Can I get? Okay. There's just like spots of blood on the floor. And the room is extremely cold. And the nurse is getting ready. And I ask her, I don't know why I asked her this, Eric. But I just, I said, what's the most that you've come across?

that a young lady has aborted a child. And she was like very nonchalant. She was like, oh, this girl came in. She had about like 13. 13 abortions. 13 abortions, which I don't even understand how you have a uterus after 13. She was nonchalant about it. And who was the woman you're talking to?

This is the nurse. Not the doctor. No, no, no, because now I'm in the room. And so she's getting me ready and I had never been under anesthesia. So I was terrified of that. I didn't know, you know, because you're thinking, my goodness, well, I wake up. And the doctor comes in, and I don't remember his face. It was just a voice.

And he was like, don't worry, this is all going to be over in five minutes, and then you'll be done. And those words have never left my mind. Because I was like, wow, five minutes to remove a human being. But see, most people in that position would not be thinking a human being. Were you thinking that at that time? Absolutely. especially after I saw what I saw. To me it was never a clot of blood.

To me, it was a human being. But even as early as A-weeks, because A-weeks is not far along, obviously. No, but it's still a human. Yeah. It's a baby. Yeah. Well, but just the fact that you saw it also, it's like, that's, you know, it's not just a baby. It's my baby.

It's my baby. She's, you know, or I didn't know what the gender was at that moment, but yes. Yeah. Okay, so now what? So you wake up and you're in the room recovering. Okay, wait, so you go under? So I go under and it's literally, it felt like five minutes. I don't know what the process, how long it was.

So then you go back into the room and there's a whole bunch of beds and just a whole bunch of girls were coping, recovering. And they slowly, as you come out of the anesthesia, and I remember the moment that I was aware, I believe, the first. words that came out of my mouth was, I'm a murderer. Wow. That was the first thing. It wasn't that I was thirsty. I said, I'm a murderer.

And I remember sobbing again. It was a hot mess. And the nurse came over to me, and she was actually really nice, and she was, like, just trying to console me as much as she could. And I just kept telling her, like, no, you don't understand. Like, I just, I just, like, I killed my baby.

Like, I just killed my baby. And she was like, no, you, You just, you did what you had to do. And I was like, and then I became so lethargic. I was so thirsty and I had water. And I remember sugar cookies. I never forgot the sugar cookies. And I was eating them.

But a murderer. Like, that's just. So this is, it's, it's fascinating that you were, you were doing that to yourself, you know. And, uh, okay, so, so you're there. What, what happens now? You leave, obviously. So then I felt completely. empty. I could feel that my body was emptied. But I felt empty spiritually, emotionally,

physically. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to say. They put your clothes back on and you just wait to be if someone's going to pick you up. And I remember walking outside. And like I said, this had to be around three, four o'clock. And it was sunny. And as I was waiting for my ride, I remember this woman, she was giving out pamphlets and she looked at me and she was like, oh, you did one of those where you're going to go to hell. That's the not nice kind of pseudo-Christians that you don't need helping you. Yeah, I didn't really need that. But you know what?

I accepted that. I did. I really, because I sort of, I understood what she was doing, a part of me wished that she would have just given me a hug and say, you know what, no matter what God still loves you. But what she did was confirmed that I was a sinner and that I committed. murder. No one likes to say that. No one likes to think that, but I'm telling you that is the way you think. Not for all, but for many. And you stay with that for the rest of your life. You live in that. You consume it. It becomes, and I damned myself. I said, I will never have children. It was like I cursed my own body. I really did.

This is very deep. I remember, yeah, I just, I know, gosh, it's supposed to be miracles, but the second half is so much better. No, no, no, no, no, no. That's not the point. This is, you got to go there. You got people have to understand. I mean, look, people who know me know my story that I was, I participated in the same thing. When I was a young man, I've talked to you about this.

And my experience was different in the sense that I was able to just totally block it out because everybody says, that's no big deal. Everybody does, it's like, it's like, don't think about it. If you're just trying cigarettes for the first time. You know, it's that. Like, everyone does it. But the point is, in a weird way, you were blessed to understand. We're going to go to a break. We'll be right back, folks.

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Like it was almost like to punish yourself. Yeah, yeah, basically. I just said, I will never have children. I don't deserve to have children. I sort of just cursed myself. And it's like I made a pact with my soul, if that sounds. That makes sense? It makes a lot of sense to me.

I believe a lot of people make packs with themselves and in the sense of what they'll accept, what they won't accept. Well, what you're really doing is you're agreeing with the devil. Exactly. And you're condemning yourself. See, this is what's interesting. When the woman who condemning says, oh, you're going to go to hell, whatever, here's why that's a lie. It's a lie because it doesn't give you the second piece of the story.

It's like when you understand you've done something wrong, there's good news for people who have done something wrong, that there's a God that wants to forgive you if you want him to. It's like Judas, not knowing that he could have had a second chance. So you're buying this condemnation. with no way out. No way out. And I didn't know the love of the Lord.

I didn't know about grace. Like I said, I've always knew. I grew up knowing about God, but I didn't know God. But a lot of people, their view of Christianity is the negative thing you just shared. Like it's like, oh, I'm going to hell, this bad thing, whatever. They don't understand, you know, the rest of the story. Which is why I want you to tell the rest of your story. Yeah.

So, mind you, this is years of torture, deep torture. And I remember, once in the first of the story, you know, a blue moon, I would come across maybe PBS or Channel 13 and they would show like what happens in an abortion and I would just find myself watching and cringing and crying in severe pain. I told my parents and of course they weren't happy, but my mom at that time was like, listen, you did what you have to do. You keep it moving. That's what we do.

That's what I did. I kept it moving. I didn't realize the damage. Yeah, you push those feelings down and keep walking. I mean, when you talk about you numb yourself so that way you don't ever have to think about it. But I just didn't like being around children. I just did not like children at all. Because they reminded you.

They just reminded me. It was just too much. And I just never wanted children. I really just wanted to become a movie star and be happy and get married. And I got married with the intention of not having children. And we always joke because I tell my husband, I go, where do we miss that? Because I didn't want children. You screwed up because you got to.

two kids. Where did you go wrong? How did that happen? We know. Okay. So, and, um, but, so I come back from shooting freedom writers and my boyfriend at the time, which is now my husband, he and I were going through issues and I'm like, listen, you need help. So he's like, okay. And he goes and he finds a church. And I'm like, that's great for you. Okay. So he was, now, I don't remember, and I don't know if you can share what kind of trouble, what kind of help he needed or whatever, but somehow. He just had a lot of problems with rage and emotional issues. And so I thought.

I thought I was like this big star and I was like there's nothing wrong with me. Oh. So were you, this is after Freedom Writers? I was in Freedom Writers. So you were a big star? Yes. Like, so you're some big shot and you're like, uh, you're the problem. So you got help.

He finds a church and it starts to help him and you go, that's good for you. That's great. Okay. And then the church he finds is an all Spanish church. I was like, really? Really? Okay. I mean, I'm Puerto Rican, but it was fairly, you know, predominantly, predominantly, um, predominantly

Dominican. And I just remember going in and it just felt so weird because remember I grew up Catholic. You went with him? I started going with him. Okay. But I would go with like my big Versace glasses and I would just sit in the back and I'd be like these people are crazy. I don't know what is going on here. No one can be this happy.

I don't even know what they're saying. And then one day at this point I still have never spoken about my abortion. Never. to anyone other than my boyfriend. Right. And I'm in the back because I thought, well, I'll be vain.

I'm in your house, God, but I'm still a star. Yeah. And I thought, you never think like the Holy Spirit is going to reach you, you know, because you're just so. Yeah, he can't reach back that far. You didn't realize his arms are that long. The color people went like, no, so. Yeah. It's going to get you.

So I was just in the back. But my pastor kept saying in Spanish, and then he just started saying it in English, you said, if you want forgiveness and my body started to tremble but I'm thinking no this isn't happening I don't know what's going on

and he said if you want forgiveness and he just kept reiterating forgiveness forgiveness and I began to my body had a reaction even before my mind I don't even the words can't put into

I can't even express what I I think that this is the funny thing about God being able to reach to the back of the room, something is happening to you, which it doesn't sound rational. It feels- Because you're so full of sin and you're not worthy because I just thought I'm not worthy of his forgiveness. So why would he want to forgive me with my secret? I had several secrets. I was a survivor of abuse. And I had an abortion.

Holy cow. I was a hot mess. And I remember I just said, I'm just going to walk over. So now there's a group of people. and if you've never been in a Pentecostal or Baptist. I certainly have. It's just a lot of emotion.

Yeah. But it was, it was, I found myself in the middle and my hand started to go up. And in my mind, I'm like, don't you dare. But then I was like, oh my gosh. And when I felt like I was reaching for, I was trying to rip heaven open to bring God down. And I felt this, this power just come in my body.

my knees began to buckle. And I thought, oh my goodness, I'm one of those people. It's happening to me. It's happening to me. I'm one of those people I make fun of. So you're like near the front of the church at this point. I'm in the front. Right in the front.

We're going to go to break. I love cliffhangers. Ladies and gentlemen, when we come back, you'll hear the rest of the story. It's the Erkman Texas show. Stick around. This is big stuff. Yeah, yeah, whatever. Hey, I'm talking April Hernandez. Castillo. Listen, April, this is like crazy stuff. So you're like cynical.

You're not into it. You're in the back of the church. And you're telling something basically happens to make you do something. And you're like, what is happening to me? You walk up to the front of the church. Yes. I mean, I love what you describe. You said your hand goes up. You don't even know what's happened. But it's like you're trying to pull God down to you or something. And okay. So you said your knees buckle. So I fall. You fall down. So you're one of those people. I'm one of those people that I'd make fun of.

Nobody push you. No one. There wasn't anyone. I mean, there were people around me, but no one was touching me. I fall and I happened to fall into like fetal position, which I never forgot that feeling. And I'm crying and all of a sudden I hear God talk to me. And it was so peaceful. And I remember him saying, I forgive you.

I love you. I need you to forgive you. yourself. You heard words. Yes. As if I'm talking to you right now. You heard words. That's so cool.

That's such an amazing thing. It was so clear. It wasn't as if I was underwater. It wasn't, oh, is he? I knew it was him. And then I felt my uterus that I had cursed. It was as if I had chains and, you know, the picture of a heart where it's cracked in the middle.

I literally felt it coming back together. So you had a physical sensation. inside your body of something happening. Now, what did that feel like? Was it like heat? Was it like electricity? Was it like, I mean... It just felt like, just, I just felt it come together.

That's what I felt as if it had been broken. As if something is broken and you're just doing this. Like, this is what I felt like he was doing. And so I'm still crying. And when he said you need to forgive yourself, I was, then I screamed like I forgive myself. Now, do you realize when you spoke those words? words, it's the opposite of cursing yourself. You broke the curse.

I broke the curse. With God's power. Oh, yes. To say, I forgive myself. Because suddenly you open the door. Now God, he already said he wants to forgive you. Yes. And so his forgiveness pours in.

And you're telling me that you then feel like your womb being knit back together. I mean, you can't make this stuff up. I wish. Someone, listen, someone might watch this and say that is absolutely impossible. And I get it. But when you haven't experienced God's love, then you will never get it. When you don't know that healing. that's possible, you won't understand.

I mean, I've never had anything like this happen. I know a lot of people, you know, I've had certain things happen, but this is an amazing thing. I know, I know. And so I get up and I look like a hot mess. I'm like, what is going on? I go to my seat. And then I finally, at the end, I go home back to my boyfriend's house. And this is the miracle.

Now, wait a second. He was with you in the church? He was. But he was praying for me. And so he saw all this whole thing. happening. He saw everything. And this is probably an answer to his prayers. Absolutely. But he didn't know what was happening. He just knew something was happening. So fast forward, I go to his house and we're there and we're processing everything that's going on. All of a sudden, it's like you and I are speaking and then I just zone out. It's sort of like I'm underwater. So you know that's that when you're underwater, someone's talking to is like you can hear them, but it's from afar. And I have, I begin to have this vision. And it sort of was like, I'm underwater. It's sort of was like, an etch-a-sketch.

And as it was happening, green was starting to show. And as I began to go out more... Well, wait a minute. You're having a vision. I'm having a vision in the bed. You never had a vision before. No. Okay, so this just...

So you're talking about this stuff. What happened at church today. And then suddenly you're having this vision. It feels like you're underwater. Okay. And you said you see like green? I see green, like green pastures. Yeah.

I still don't know what green pastures are, but it's... I'm standing in it. And it's beautiful. And there's daisies everywhere. And from afar, there's a little girl. In the vision. Yes, it's a little girl, and she is stunning. And she has all white.

And she's just playing. Oh, my gosh. And she's so happy. And she was about my color skin, maybe a little darker. She had long hair. And she turns around to me. And she says, me, I'm okay. You need to let me go. This is a vision. You are not sleeping. You're awake and you go

into this vision. And you're also describing it. It sounds like it was very real. It was so real. It was as if I was on a movie set that they built and we were going to shoot a scene. That's how real it was for me. And all I remember was that there were daisies and that was her name. And I knew that that was the little girl. You knew in this vision that her name was Daisy. Somehow you just knew. Her name was supposed to be Daisy and it was a girl. Now here's my question.

When you had this church experience on the day you're talking about and the vision all on the same day, how many years after this abortion are we talking? Well, I was 19 and this happened, I want to say maybe 2008. that's not helping me how many years between like 11 maybe no oh my gosh

obviously you've thought this through you've had many years to think this through it was a while and you decided to do it now on the program to do the man what I'm trying to say when you say a while okay so was that long

yes that I walked around with that you're walking around with that pain for 10 11 years and then God finegals to get you in this church and then sucks you down to the altar and heals you

and later that day you have this vision Now you'd never had a vision before Not like that I had a vision of me You know becoming a movie star It was so tangible I was gonna say when people say a vision You gotta be very clear right

Yes In other words we all have pictures in our heads Like I close my eyes I can picture stuff whatever that I've had a few visions It's totally totally different It's like not even worth It's like watching TV

It's like You're watching something. You're not thinking of it. No. You're watching something. You're in it. And she was happy and healthy and just full of joy. And it was as if he was showing me she is okay.

But you need to move on. But it's so interesting that she said to you, you need to let me go. I mean, that's so beautiful. That's so beautiful. Only somebody in heaven would have the wisdom to say, something like that, you know? So. And it sort of gives you, it does give you hope that one day you will see your loved ones in heaven.

And you know you will. And it's just a different experience. And but. Hang on because we're going to go to a break. Folks, we have a final segment with April Hernandez. Castillo. We'll be right back. I met a man.

Ooh, yeah. And I saw the nights in the arm and saying, Something I've been singing And drummers, drummers split the tree It's the Arkham Taxi. I'm talking to my friend April Hernandez Castillo. April, your story, the first time I heard this, you know, it just got me because there's so much in it. It's not like there's so many different pieces to this.

It's a movie. It's a short film. It is a short film. Just saying, yeah. No, but seriously, like, because there's so many pieces to it. I mean, first of all, your, like, hard scrabble upbringing in the Bronx that leads you to an abusive relationship that leads you to get pregnant, that leads you to think the only solution is to get an abortion that leads you to the abortion clinic that leads you to pain that lasts for years and years and years and years. And then somehow God and His mercy kind of sucks you in to this thing that you don't want to be there, you think you're too good, whatever. And, you know, because I think there are people that feel like God can't reach me.

Now, here you are, you don't forgive yourself, you don't want anything to do with God, and he reaches you in spite of, you know, your attitude. Like, it's amazing. Oh, I had such a chip on my shoulder. Because you still do, by the way. I know you. No, but it's just, it's amazing. So anyway, the story.

Yeah. I mean, I definitely think it happened that way because probably of my personality, because I'm a fighter because I will probably fight my way through anything and I don't want to believe that I had a problem or that I was carrying something so deep that so many women carry. And even men, even men carry, which I don't think we ever address for men who... I mean, forget about men for a second because I've got to tell you that one of the reasons that I wanted to tell your story, and obviously I told them in my book miracles, but I wanted to tell on this program is because there are women out there who have no idea.

that there's a God who wants to heal and forgive them. Because they do just like you, they say, I'm not, I don't deserve God's forgiveness. And it's like, first of all, you want to say, that's the point. Nobody deserves God's forgiveness. And so, but the fact that God. And not even women, young girls, because the majority of them were young girls. Well, but, but I'm saying that there are people walking around for decades with this stuff. And their assumption is either I am going to be like pro-abortion activist to shut up

those voices that are hurting me or or nothing. There's no other solution. So your story proves that there's a God who wants to love you and forgive you and bring healing. And that's why when I heard it, I said, how many women do I know a lot who have had this experience? They have never heard that God is not just condemning them. What they did, they condemn themselves. But God says, I want to forgive you. I want to heal you. And I know that they're telling you. You know, Oprah's not talking about this. I mean, all the women's shows that they do, they don't talk about this.

What about the women that they would love to hear this? But they're told, shut up. Like, we don't want to hear about your pain. It's in your mind. Like, you got accepted and move on. Yeah, or it's just, once again, it's what I realized, the moment that you accept either side, it sort of feels like the movie West Side Story.

You know, it's that, right? And I get it. But I've been very, very careful because I'm like, that's not why God did what he did with me. If I can just talk to you and offer you other options and just share how much God loves you, and even if you still make that decision, that God is still going to forgive you and love you. That's where I stand. Right. I may not get a lot of people to agree with me on that, but I go for what I experienced,

Okay, it wasn't until your book that I told my story. I know that. We're going to have to end this show. We're out of time. But we'll do a second show with you so you can save all this stuff. April, it just gives me joy every time I see you. And to hear you tell this story, there are people that are going to be blessed just because you have the courage to do that. Thank you, my sister.

Thank you.