The Eric Metaxas Show - Astronaut Charlie Duke

Episode Date: April 22, 2022

Astronaut Charlie Duke played a crucial role in the very first moon landing and walk on its surface that took place on July 21, 1969 -- and on this day 50 years ago, Duke himself walked on the moon.

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Eric McTaxis show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Hey there, folks. This is a very exciting day. Very exciting. Albin, you know I'm not kidding. You're not kidding. I'm not exaggerating. You are not. What we have today, I almost don't want to, I don't want to spoil it, but I have to say it.

I have to say it. There's two big things today, very big. Number one, number one, we didn't mention it yesterday. Yesterday marked the seventh anniversary of this program. Yes. April 20th, seven years ago. Wow. And it's hard to believe, and I broke a mirror five minutes before we went on the air, so we had seven years bad luck, so I'm pretty sure starting today,

it's going to be better. But it's seven years. And do you remember the day we started the show seven years ago, what day that was, April 20th? Well, I was a little tyke back then. You were just a kid. And Chris Himes was in charge back then, so I don't know. It was Hitler's birthday. Oh.

And I realized, they said, we're going to start the show April 20th, you know. And I was like, okay, okay, like, you know, I want to play ball with Salem. Like, that's the date. I'm fine. and then I realized it's Hitler's birthday. So what did we do in a move of programming genius, we got as my first guest, Alice von Hildebrand, the widow of the number one enemy of Adolf Hitler in Austria,

the great Dietrich von Hildebrand, who really was a heroic figure, like a Bonhoeffer. and his widow, who actually just passed away a few weeks ago, Alice von Hildebrand was my guest for the first show, April 20th. What is that? 2015? Holy cow. So, okay, but today, ladies and gentlemen,

I don't know how exactly to do this justice. I'm so excited. I'm going to burst. Some of you know that on April 21st, In 1979, 50 years ago today, something happened. Yep. Now, Albin, do you remember what happened? Yeah, I was pulling some girl's pigtail as a senior in high school, I think.

Actually, I went to an all-boys high school, so who knows what was going on. So it could have been a guy's pigtail. But no, seriously, do you remember April 21st exactly 50 years ago today? Big news, yeah. Okay, so folks. You should tell it because you're the host of the show, man. Okay, okay. 50 years ago today, a man named Charlie Duke walked on the moon.

Today is the 50th anniversary of Apollo 16 landing on the moon, April 21st, 1972. I was eight years old. I was at the Transfiguration Greek Orthodox Parochial School over the river here in Queens in Fourth Green. We were just about to move to Danbury, Connecticut, and Apollo 16 landed on the moon. Charlie Duke walked on the moon. He was the first – I'm sorry, he was the youngest man ever to walk on the moon at age 36. Oh, boy. And I just thought, man, wouldn't it be like mind-blowing if for the 50th anniversary of that we could get as our guest, Charlie Duke?

Yeah, you did it. Now, if you do the math, he's 86 years old. Yeah. And he's still the youngest man to ever have walked on the moon. So, ladies and gentlemen, that is my long-winded way of saying in a few moments. Our guest on the program is Charlie Duke, the man who walked on the moon 50 years ago today. I am so excited to talk to him. I can hardly tell you.

And when you told me that, I said I thought Sam Waterston played him in Capricorn 1. Now, that's a very complicated joke. You realize, I don't get that joke, but I can tell, I can feel that it's funny to somebody. To me. So can you explain that joke? Well, Capricorn 1 was about faking the moon landing. And Sam Waterston was, anyway. I actually never saw Capricorn 1.

Yeah. Because I don't believe in horoscopes. It's of the devil. So, okay, so in a couple of minutes, we have a man who walked on the moon. For real. on this program. No kidding. Okay. Now, you know what that makes me think of? Yeah. They can put a man on the moon.

Right. But they can't invent a pillow that's comfortable for most users. And then I realized, wait a minute, wait a minute. They did put a man on the moon and they also invented a pillow. In fact, my friend Mike Lindell invented a pillow. And if you go to mypillow.com and use the code Eric, you get a whopping discount. and he also invented towels. Oh, yeah, they're the best.

He invented all this stuff. MyPillow.com. Now, by the way, that's the technology we live in, that we were able to put a man on the moon. And only about 40 years later, Mike Lindell was able to invent this next-level, state-of-the-art pillow and all this other stuff. And if you don't go to MyPillow.com or MyStore.com

and use the code, Eric, you are anti-science. That's right. You're an enemy of science. And that pillow. is our version of Tang. Exactly. That's exactly correct. That's exactly right. I just hope Charlie Duke doesn't say like, ah, walking on the moon,

not all what's cracked up to be. Not a big deal. No big deal. He, so, okay, so in a couple of minutes to celebrate the 50th anniversary of Charlie Duke walking on the moon. Now, he's a man of profound Christian faith. I should say that. Profound Christian faith, they got to meet his son

and that's how I was connected him. So we're talking to him in a minute. in our two, we're going to do our regularly scheduled Ask Metaxus, where you all write in and ask questions and I try to answer them. And then if we can keep Charlie Duke around, because, you know, it's only the 50th anniversary. I'm sure he has nothing else to do. We'll keep talking to Charlie Duke. Otherwise, we'll figure out what we're going to do. By the way, last week, actually, I don't know, did we hear it this week, David B.

Berlinski. Oh, yeah. Was that? Oh, my gosh. Folks, David Berlinski, if you have not seen my video, you sign up for our newsletters, which is Eric Mataxis.com. David Berlinski, he's a mathematician, a philosopher, a raconteur. He's one of the most entertaining. If John Zmirak didn't exist, I wouldn't even have to, like, think hard about this one. Who's the most entertaining person to talk to? David Berlinski. Monday show, I just checked. Right? And if that's not enough, I spoke to, I.

Oz Guinness. That's right. Both of them Monday. Oh my goodness. So we've just had crazy, wonderful guests. And because I'm in the middle of a book deadline, we are re-airing some interviews that I've done. We're going to re-air or did we re-air the Rudy Giuliani interview? Yeah, we did. We did that on Tuesday. Oh, my gosh. But Dave Rubin, new interview coming up on Friday tomorrow. So I think I want to tell people as well, there's a movie, coming out. Now, if you're not aware of this, I will keep talking about this. This is a big deal. SalemNow.com.

If you go to SalemNow.com, there's a raft of films which I believe you'll want to watch. One of them is called Whose Children Are They? And we're going to be doing an interview with the people who made that film. That may be today, actually, that I do the interview with them. But the other film at SalemNow.com is called 2,000 Mules.

Yes, yes. Now, folks, mules are people who do illegal activity. They get paid. The film 2000 Mules, if you refuse to watch it, it's like the people who refuse to look through Galileo's telescope. You don't want to know the truth. The truth is incontrovertible. It is astonishing.

And if you would dare to argue with it, I would say you better watch the film before you open your mouth to argue with it. because you simply won't believe it. It is an astonishing accomplishment. It is available at SalemNow.com soon. The premiere is going to be in a couple of weeks. Yeah, yeah, it's coming up. But I want to tell people it's simply, it's too much to bear

because Dinesh D'Souz, a genius that he is, he brings the evidence, it's clear, and your life will never be the same once you've seen it. Once you know, because some of you listening to this program, you don't know, I tell you're going to know. And the world is going to change because we're going to have to deal with this information. So it's 2,000 mules. You can see it at salem now.com. Don't forget whose children are they, which is a good question, at salemnow.com.

Can you tell I have a cold? I sound stuffed up. You have a cold. You have a bit of a cold, yeah. All right. Well, listen, folks, when we come back, we're celebrating the 50th anniversary of Charlie Duke walking up. the moon. We'll be right back. Tell me, Eric, why is relief factor so successful at lowering or eliminating pain? I'm often asked that question. The owners of Relief Factor tell me they believe

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Holy cow, folks. I'm so excited. I'm about to burst. We've got a whole room of people about to turn blue over here because I've got a guest right now who claims, we don't know, we have no proof, to have walked on the moon 50 years ago. Today, General Charles Duke, welcome to this program. Thank you very much, Eric. There's a lot of proof that we really landed on the moon. I, well, I happen to believe that you did. Give you his teeth. I happen to believe that you did. And I am so excited and honored to be talking to you, not just to be talking to you, but to be talking to you on the 50th anniversary today of your having set foot on the lunar surface.

And not just that, but as the youngest man ever to walk on the moon, yes? Yes, that's correct. I was 36 when I stepped onto the moon. I'm 86, and I'm still the youngest man that walked on the moon. See, now that's the funniest thing of all. You are, to this day, the youngest man who walked on the moon. Yes, sir. You retain the title.

I retain the title, but hopefully before I die, I will relinquish that to someone from Artemis, but one of the younger astronauts can claim they're the youngest. moon. Do you think someone, I wasn't expecting to go there so quickly, but do you think that in your lifetime it's possible? Somebody, I mean, I, I've really just lost hope that anybody wants to go to the moon. You happen to be on the inside, so you would know. Well, I'm not officially with NASA anymore, but I stay current with what's going on. And the Artemis program, which is scheduled to land somebody on the moon by the end of the decade is proceeding very, very well.

And we have a rocket called the SLS on the launch pad. If that checkout goes well, we'll have an unmanned launch sometime this year. And then we'll start doing test flights with the command module. and we'll send somebody to the moon, probably not onto the moon, but at least to the moon, this decade. I can't believe that nothing's changed in a thousand years. At the end of the decade, we're going to put a man on the moon. It's kind of funny, actually.

I've got to ask you. There's so much I want to ask you. Now, you are a general, so if you're on a base someplace, people call you general. you're letting me call you Charlie, but that's just because you're a nice guy. But you are a general. That's correct. I was a brigadier general, retired U.S. Air Force. Well, I want to go back in time.

It's a little hard to go back 50 years. I remember I was a fourth grader here in New York City in the spring of 1972, which suddenly is 50 years ago. You already, by this point in 1972, had spent years in the space program, and you had a seminal role in the Apollo 11 program. Can you talk about that a little bit about Apollo 11? I'd be delighted to. It was a very challenging and a very exciting adventure for me. I was the CAPCOM or capsule communicator on the landing phase of Apollo 11. So in mission control, there's one person can talk to the crew, and that's the CAPCOM, which is always an astronaut. So Neil Armstrong asked me, I'd done the same job on Apollo 10, but we didn't land.

And so he asked me to continue on to be his Capcom for Apollo 11. So I was honored to do that and to be involved. And so our team came on duty and we checked out the lunar module. Everything was Go. And so we started our descent. Everything was perfect. And then the sort of the wheels started coming off. Now, this is a famous thing.

Before you go further, I just want to want to, so people are. tracking. We're now not talking about what happened 50 years ago when you stood on the moon in in April of 1972. We're now talking about three years before you were obviously on the ground and Apollo 11, first time we had put men on the moon. And this is a very famous moment when you're just talking about this, that the lunar module is making its descent. You have, verbal communication with Neil Armstrong at that moment? That's correct. Only one in mission control that's allowed to talk to the crew. So sort of with one ear, you're listening to the crew, with the other ear, you're listening to

all the activity going around in mission control. So as we started our descent, it seemed perfect. And then we had communication problems. We had to change antennas. That was a little disconcerting. And then we had a major problem. The computer started to overload. And we kept getting these computer alarms. But our flight controller knew exactly what was wrong. And he said, we're going on those computer alarms.

So we continued our descent. And even in spite of all of these computer alarms coming up, we continued on a perfect descent. But when we got to 7,000 feet and we pitched over so the crew could see the moon for the first time, Neil said, I can't land. The trajectory was leading him into a big boulder field of rocks and craters. So he had to level off at about 500 feet altitude and fly across the moon several miles until he found a spot that was capable of landing. So he slowed pitched up, slowed down, and started down like a helicopter. Well, that extra few miles used up a lot of fuel.

And so now we're getting to minimum fuel. And our propulsion engineer called Flight, it was talking to Flight Director, flight, 60 seconds. In other words, he had 60 seconds to land, and then we were going to call on the board. So I said, Eagle, 60 seconds. 30 seconds later, the flight control said 30 seconds flight, and I call up Eagle 30 seconds. And we were still one on the ground. But 13 seconds later, Buzz Aldrin said, contact, engine stopped.

And we knew they were on the ground. And we were so tense. It was just like we were overcome with tension in mission control, dead silence. And when he said contact, I knew they were on the ground. A few seconds later, Neil Armstrong said very calmly, Houston Tranquility Base here, the Eagle has landed. I mean, it was the calmest voice and the whole procedure. And then I was so excited, I couldn't even pronounce tranquility. It came out, Roger Twang, and then I corrected myself, tranquility. We copy you on the ground. You got a bunch of guys that turn in blue. We're breathing again. Thanks a lot.

And so with some sharing in mission control, then everybody got back to work because if we sprung a leak during that touchdown, we had to be prepared to lift off almost immediately. So it was a great sigh of relief. We made it. And the first landing attempt was successful. And great heat. I just find that, I don't know why I find myself overcome with emotion to hear you recount that.

Unbelievable history. Great, great American history, unlike anything in the history of the world, the idea that you were in the middle of it as it was happening, and that it didn't need to go well, but by the grace of God, it did go well. just incredible. Did you have ambitions, because we know a couple of years later you got to walk on the moon, did you have ambitions early on as an astronaut? At what point, you know, in your career, did you think this was something that might happen for you? Well, I was a young lieutenant in 1965.

I just graduated from test pilot school. and I had met some astronauts when I was getting my master's degree at MIT a few years before, and they were enthusiastic, and I said, man, that'd be a great job. And so I was, as Paulus Goode was really sort of the focus of getting to NASA. And so about a month later in September of 2016, I was NASA had another group applied and was selected and became an astronaut

in August of, I'm sorry, in April of 1966. But we were the low ones on the totem pole. We were the rookies. And the opportunity to fly was slim. But we had a series of accidents. Back then we had three astronauts. killed in a spacecraft fire.

We had four killed in an airplane accidents. One killed in an automobile. I have a big memory of that. I was a kid. But when we come back, folks, I'm going to continue my conversation with Charles Duke. Youngest man Everett have walked on the moon. Did so today, 50 years ago. We'll be right now.

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of my guest, Charles Duke, walking on the lunar surface. That's technical term for the moon. Charles Duke, welcome. I want to take you to that day since today is exactly 50 years since you stepped onto the lunar surface. Take us to the moment of entering lunar orbit, landing. I mean, these are the kinds of things most of us will never get to experience. A lunar entry into lunar orbit occurred several days before we attempted to landing on the moon.

And it was very dramatic. You enter lunar orbit in darkness, so you can't see the surface. But mission control knew you were on the right trajectory. So you entered lunar orbit, slowed down, got into orbit, and then the sun came up real rapidly. you begin to see this very rough surface on the backside. We came around so Earthrise for the first time, which is very, very dramatic. And then we started preparing for the next day to get ready to land on the moon. So we had a rest period.

We ate a couple of meals, one before we went to sleep, one where we woke up. And then John Young and I put on our spacesuits and floated over into the little module to start our preparation. Let me get this straight because most people like me are we have to, we've got to slow down and try to take this in. You're obviously, you have not yet detached the lunar module from, what do you call it? Command module. Okay. So the command module, there's three of you. But at some point, two of you, you and John Young are going to get into the lunar module.

You're going to detach. At what point does that happen? That happened almost a day later after we entered orbit. So we orbited the moon, corrected our trajectory a few times. And then when the time came, we got into the lunar module. John and I floated over in our spacesuits. We closed the hatches. And then we began to power up.

And that took six or seven hours. And we were still attached at that point. And when we got all ready to go, it came. time for release and Mattingly punched a button and we released and we floated apart. And at that point, we were flying free and we were ready to go all powered up. And this was several hours before the landing. Unfortunately, we had a problem an hour before the landing. We were on the far side of the moon and we had to delay the landing.

It looked like maybe abort the landing. However, mission control came to the rescue, and six hours late, we were given a go-for. Now, what were the issues you were having? Were they weather-related? No, there was no weather on the moon. That's a joke. That was a joke. I got you, Charlie Duke.

Okay. No, so what happened that made you possibly not be able to land? What wasn't anything in our spacecraft was in his spacecraft, the command module, And he had to change his orbit on the far side of the moon to get in a proper phase so that if we aborted, he would be out in front of us and we could join up from behind. But he couldn't do something wrong with the main engine, and he couldn't do that maneuver. So that meant no landing next hour. So we orbited the moon for two revolutions before mission control said we know what's wrong, we can't fix. it, but here's a workaround, and they gave him a workaround. And so they told us,

if his successful burn, you'll go for the next landing. And by the way, that was the last opportunity we had so that as the moon drifted out from under us, we could get back to our landing spot. Anyway, so he did the burn, and he was successful. We came around, and then we started our descent six hours behind schedule. It's a chilling thing for most of us civilians to think about the concept of crawling into the lunar module and detaching from the thing that brought you there from planet Earth and navigating that little thing down to the surface of the moon and then having to navigate it back up and couple again and go. It's really a staggering thing. I imagine that because this had been done a couple times before, it was maybe not as nerve-wracking as it was when Neil and Buzz did it.

Nonetheless, you'd never done this before. What did that feel like, that moment of being detached and suddenly drifting down in this spidery-looking thing? It was a feeling of we're ready to go, and thank goodness we got the opportunity. And so we were prime for landing. And your focus was doing the checklist right and getting everything ready to go. And as you started down to land in a proper place at the proper moment and the proper time.

And so your focus was always looking forward to the landing. And as you started, you descent, then it turned to making sure you kept the spacecraft running correctly. And with great anticipation. We were on our way down. And what a feeling of release, especially after we delayed for six hours. So we were primed. We were ready to go, and we were on high alert, if you will, to handle any emergency in the spacecraft. But we had none.

We started down a little communication problem, but they fixed that. And so the descent went almost flawlessly, if you will. And John picked out a wonderful landing site. No boulders this time. We're going to be right back, folks. I'm talking to Charlie Duke. Today is the 50th anniversary of his walking on the moon 50 years ago. This day we'll be right back.

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Or call 800, 978, 3057. That's 800, 978 3057. And use the promo code, Eric. Folks, welcome back. I'm talking to General Charlie Duke, who 50 years ago today walked on the surface of the moon. Before we go farther, Charlie, you're a man of faith. When did that happen in your life? It was not during the time that we're talking about 50 years ago was subsequent to that?

Yes, it did. I get a question a lot, said going to the moon change your life. It did not. But I came back. I'd always believe in God. We were churchgoers, took our family every Sunday to our little Episcopal church in La Port, Texas. Anyway, but I was frustrated. I was 36 when I landed on the moon.

And now I've climbed a ladder of success. Now what? I had no peace. Our marriage was falling apart. But fortunately, some people came to, in 1975, some people came to our little parish church. And they started talking about Jesus. Their personal testimony. In an Episcopal church, that's unheard of.

Back then it was okay. But not right now is hard. But my wife listened intently, and she was on the verge of suicide. And this was in October of 1975. And she heard these people, and she realized, I've tried everything in my life but Jesus. And so after the weekend was over, she went in a bedroom and prayed, Lord Jesus, if you're real, I give you my life. If you're not, I want to die. Well, Jesus came into her life.

He's alive, and two months later, I watched her change from sadness to joy. About this time, we were moving, and I was leaving NASA, and I was starting a business, you know, a lot of money, and I'm going to make a lot of money, and that's going to give me peace. Well, I started a business in San Antonio. And two years, I struggled with that, and it was successful financially, but I was miserable. So I sold out in April of 1978 some people from our church. Now we changed. We were still in the Episcopal church, which was sort of, our diocese was sort of evangelical.

And so a friend of mine asked me to go to Bible study, and I went to a Bible study on a weekend at the local tennis club. And it was life-changing, of course. for there, I started listening about what was the Bible says about Jesus, from Genesis to Revelation. It's the story of Jesus. And so we get over the New Testament. And these scriptures kept becoming more and more real. I'd heard them when I was young.

And I got to the point where Jesus says, I'm the way, the truth, and the life. And nobody comes to God. through me. And the thought occurred to me, you know, that's the truth or the biggest lie ever perpetrated against humanity. And I get to decide whether it's the truth of a lie. And many other scriptures, but at the end of that weekend, I got in the car with my wife, and I looked over at it, and I said, darling, there's no doubt in my life that Jesus Christ is the son of God. I said, Lord come into my life. And for the very first time, I experienced the peace of God.

It was a tremendously moving moment. And I'd sold my business, so I didn't have any thing to go work to. And so I started reading the Bible the next morning, Monday morning. I started reading the Bible. And I read, read, read and read, the more I became, the more convicted I became. God spoke to me about the sin in my life through the scriptures. Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church. Well, I never did, but I wanted to. So I repented. You have the power of life and death in your tongue, and you can speak life or death. And so I'd spoken death into my kids. I was on them like a drill sergeant. And I'd curse them. The Bob, and said, God spoke to my heart and said, you have cursed your own kids.

I love these boys. What do you mean? And God convicted me. So I went in tears and repented. And that healed our family and started healing our marriage when I went to my wife. And God showed me what I had not done and what I had done. So I repented. And he forgave me, she forgave me. The boys gave me. And we started building our family on the solid rock of Jesus. That was in 1978, and we're still, now we've got nine grandchildren, and I'm not cursing my grandchildren anymore. I never have. I'm blessing them because the words of life are in the scriptures. And so then they talked to me about money, you know, and he gave me a generous heart. And we started giving into the church, given to Christian causes, and the more I gave, the more God gave. And just give, and it should be given to you. And so it was a dramatic change in our lifestyle.

And about six, eight months later, after this transformation began, I got an invitation to speak at a church up in Greatly, Curve Hill, Texas. And it was, no, the first church was in San Antonio to a youth group. And back then, every time I thought about Jesus, I kept quiet. And I prayed and prayed. Lord, don't let me cry in front of all these kids. And, you know, I'm a grim-jawed steely-eyed fighter power. I said, don't let me cry.

So I went to this youth group, and I started speaking. And the first 20 minutes was like we talked about, was about the space and going to the moon and how challenging it was. Then I started talking about Jesus, and I started tearing up. Every time I thought about Jesus, I started hearing with joy, tears of joy. And their eyes got real big, and so after it was over, but they were touched. And I could tell they were intently listening. And so I got home, and I said, I started praying.

I said, Lord, why did you let me cry? And I can't say, I heard the voice in the Lord, but I knew the spirit was speaking to my heart was it's hard to be proud when you're crying. And God knows how to humble you. And just like right now, I'm getting teary. What I think about it, God knows us so well. He knows the problem in our heart.

And pride is a big problem, especially for somebody that walked on the moon. And listen, I've never walked down the moon, and I struggle with pride. So that'll tell you. We're going to be going to a break. But folks, I know you're not going any place. I'm talking to Charlie Duke. This is the 50th anniversary of the day he walked on the moon.

We'll be right back. Folks, welcome back. 50 years ago today, my guest walked on the moon. General Charlie Duke. Charlie, we were talking about your faith. Let's go back just 50. years ago to this day, you land on the lunar surface. Who got out first? Was it you or your colleague, John? The commander always gets out first. The reason is he's on the left side.

The lunar module pilots on the right side and the hatches between us and that exits you to the lunar surface. And so I open the hatch, but the hatch swings towards me. So that leaves the commander a clear a clear path to get out. And then once he's out, you wait 10 minutes, shut the hatch, and then climb over, walk over to his side, and then open the hatch, and then you have a clear path to get out. So the commander on the left side, just due to the way the hatch opened, he gets out first. So you were the 10th man to walk on the moon, 12 men walked on the moon, and you were number 10 and the youngest. That's correct. By four months. What any big deal bit the youngest,

but being the 10th man was a big deal for me. I mean, I'm on the moon, and I trained two years for this, and I was so excited. Was it, so, so what is it like to walk down that ladder and to put your foot, which has never been any place but on the earth, on the surface of the moon? Can you remember that moment? I remember you hop, you go down the ladder face in the lunar module, so you're basically hopping down and the moon's behind you and you just pop down step by step and then you drop down to the foot pad and you hold on and turn around and you take that first step. And it was so exciting.

I'm on the moon. I'm on the moon. It was like a little kid at Christmas and holiday and birthday and everything, all these wonderful memories floating in and that enthusiasm and excitement. The wonder, the emotional experience you're having was just almost

overwhelming. But it, and that excitement and adventure never left me. It was just amazing to me. Every place we went, you saw something different, different shapes, different

colors. Now, when you say every place, we meant, we have to get to the, what did they call the vehicle? What did you call the vehicle that you drove around in? Lunar rover. Okay, so I don't really, how do you get the lunar rover? I mean, what is that? In the glove compartment, you pull it out? I mean, how do you land this lunar module? Where is the lunar rover? I've never really asked this question before, so now I'm asking you. Okay, you're climbing down the ladder, and there's a compartment on the right side. on the outside of the spacecraft.

And the rover's folded up like on the, the front end folds over on the center and the rear wheels fold over on the center. And it's just bolted to the outside of the spacecraft. And then you have some mechanical advantage. And so you start pulling these cables, John on one side and eye on the other, from the lunar surface.

And it just jacks it out when it gets to be about 45 degrees. all the cables get taught. It pulls the pins and it just unfolds like landing gear on an airplane. It sounds like some pretty good engineering, whoever put that together. You're right. It was perfect. The rope, we had a five by five square, and the rover was five feet by ten feet, so you had to get the ten foot down to five feet, and that's why it folded over on one another, and they just bolted it up there, and it,

It worked. When it flopped open, it was assembled, except you had to put up the seats and unplug. We're going to go to another dreaded break, but we'll be back, folks, to continue the conversation with General Charles Duke, who 50 years ago today walked on the moon.