The Eric Metaxas Show - Avner Boskey a Discussion of Israel

Episode Date: August 20, 2025

Avner Boskey author of "Israel the Key to World Revival,’ A Perspective on Islam’ and ‘A Messianic Perspective on the Restoration of David’s Tabernacle" joins the program. 

Welcome to the Eric Metaxis show. Would you consider yourself smart, insightful, precocious, astute, clever, wise beyond your years, and good at checking a thesaurus for synonyms? Well, then you've come to the right place. Here now is the handsome, attractive, striking, gorgeous, and quite frankly, breathtaking, Eric Mattaxas! Hey, folks, welcome to our two. Before we bring our guest on, Abner Boski, who is in Israel and is going to be talking to us,

about Israel. I want to mention a few other things. For example, a couple of months ago, I recorded a podcast called Paints with Aquinas. Pints with Aquinas. If you're not Catholic, you may not know who a coyness was, but you should. And Pints with Aquinas with Matthew Fraud is a very, very popular podcast. And so it was a wonderful freewheeling two-hour conversation about everything. It was really, really interesting. It has like way over 40,000 views already. It's amazing. But I posted it.

If you get my newsletter, it was on there. I think I put it on my X feed. But if you get the newsletter, go to Ericmetaxis.com, sign up for my newsletter, and we send all this stuff to you. But that was, it was really amazing. The, the, it is mainly listened to Pites with Aquinas by a Catholic audience. And it's kind of funny. You always get these comments on YouTube because it's on YouTube for, with people who know nothing.

Like this happened when I was on the Jordan Peterson thing and people make these comments. And he think they don't, they haven't done three minutes of research to see if any of this is true. And so I think a lot of people assume because I wrote a book on Luther. I'm anti-Catholic. Far from it, I'm certainly not at all anti-Catholic. I say I'm a pro-Catholic, non-Catholic, which will trigger some reformed friends.

But I don't, but it really was a wonderful, it was just an absolutely wonderful opportunity. So Pints with Aquinas that we posted that, that's been out. Also, I was, was in California. Well, actually, before I talked about California, I did an interview with William Lane Craig. Brilliant, Christian apologist, philosopher. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. I never met him, and I've never interviewed him. I interviewed him for Socrates in the studio.

We're releasing that this week. So if you're not signed up for the Socrates' mailing lists, or if you don't know about our Socrates YouTube channel, if you don't subscribe to that, that's a great one. It's a great conversation with William Lane Craig that I had. We're releasing that this week. Lots of other Socrates stuff coming up. I mentioned that I was in California at TPSA Faith. I spoke there.

And the talk that I gave there, we also posted that on my email list. And it really was. I don't know. It was one of the best received talks I think I've ever given. It was it was very interesting. And in case anybody thinks I'm anti-Catholic, I praise Mother Teresa in that talk. Mother Teresa is one of the women in my book seven women. So is Joan of Arc. John Paul II is one of the men in my book seven men. So anyway, but you can see that talk, which I gave a TPSA Faith about 10 days ago at, well, if you get my newsletter or I guess it's on my YouTube channel. Chris Himes, you must know if it's on my YouTube channel. I think it's already up on my YouTube channel. Yeah, I believe it is. I believe it is, yes.

Okay. So I want to mention that and the points with Aquinas, which we should, I don't know if we can put that on my YouTube channel, how that works, or if we can link to it. Yeah, I think maybe we can link to it. I'm actually not sure. I, so yeah, so we went out to, quote, unquote, the Hamptons for just a few days, four nights last week. But I'm working on my book on the Revolution. So we saw some friends, but during the day, I didn't go to the beach once. I worked on my book on the American Revolution because it's going to be a big book. I think it's going to be as big as Bonhoeffer.

I don't see any way around it. To tell the whole story of the American Revolution. And I'm adding a lot of stuff that you're not going to find in other books, which is kind of interesting. I mean, for example, just the other day, I was doing research on the moment where it's after the Boston Tea Party, King George's ticked. Parliament is like, hey, you guys are going to get it now. and they impose in 1774 what they call the coercive acts for punitive, explicitly punitive laws imposed on the colonies, mostly on Massachusetts, really. And it's so bad, and it looks like, you know, we're going to war. And John Wesley, this is so amazing that I found this.

John Wesley, the great evangelists, the head of the Methodist movement, the great Christian hero, John Wesley in the middle of 1774, writes a letter to Lord Dartmouth. Who is Lord Dartmouth? Lord Dartmouth is a prominent figure in the British government at that time, very close to the king. I think he was the Secretary of State to the 13 colonies at this point. But Lord Dartmouth was maybe the only figure high up in the British government in the 1770s, who was an evangelical, who was a serious Christian. They mocked him as the psalm singer.

So he knew he was friends with John Wesley. and John Wesley in this letter to Lord Dartmouth, who has a hand in making policy toward the colonies, is basically, it's like a prophetic letter. And again, I'm going to, this will be in my book because nobody else will write about this. It's so fascinating to me. He's basically saying prophetically warning him as an elder in the faith,

because he's about 72 at that point. And Lord Dartmouth is 44. Wow. And he is basically saying to him, in effect, do not do this. This will not go well. And he says in the last line of the thing, he says, remember Rehobom. Now, if you're a student of the Bible, and I know many of you here are and many of you aren't, but the story of Rehobom, he was the arrogant son of King Solomon. So he becomes king and he was very arrogant, very haughty. So when the people of Israel come to him and say,

taxing us too much, which is a very interesting parallel with the colonies and Great Britain, Riebom tells him basically stuff it, and I'm going to tax you even more because I can. He's very arrogant. And he makes this comment, which is translated, it's always translated in the sanitized way. And I know Keith Jinta, you probably know this. But he basically says to them, my little finger is bigger than my father's waist. or my father's loins. What does that mean?

I think you can figure it out. It's phallic imagery. It's vulgar. It's chest beating machismo. We are going to crush you. So what happens? What has happens to Rehobom? Because of his arrogance, he loses the 10 tribes.

So it's like a prophetic thing in 1774. Remember Rehobom, it's like Lord Dartmouth is being told by John Wesley, if you do this in this arrogance, even if you feel justified, you may feel justified, but if you do this, you risk losing everything. You risk losing a part of yourself.

So Rehoboam loses the 10 tribes of Israel. And of course, we know, guess what, George III will lose the colonies, devastating stuff. Devastating. Now, of course, he also mentions, remember Philip of Spain,

who lost, part of the Netherlands and his arrogance. He has this big Spanish empire. And then he mentions Charles the first, who loses his head in the 17th century. So, you know, these different parallels. But the Riabone thing really grabbed me. Wow. This is John Wesley speaking prophetically to his fellow Christian evangelical Lord Dartmouth. Anyway, that's in the book. That's I've been working on the book, working hard on the book, folks. We'll be talking more about that. We're going to go to a break. When we come back, we will be talking about Israel with someone who is In Israel, Avner Boski, stay tuned.

A major retail chain just canceled a massive order, leaving my pillow with an overstock of the classic my pillows. And this is your gain, because for a limited time, my pillows offering their entire classic collection at true wholesale prices. Get a standard my pillow for just 1798. Want more upgrade to queen size for only 2298 or king size for 2498? Snag body pillows for 2998 and versatile multi-use pillows for just 998. your bet a whole new pillow set only while supplies last. Visit mypillow.com today. Use promo code Eric or call 800-978-3057-3057 to score these amazing deals while they're in stock. Plus, when your order totals $75 or more, you'll receive $100 in free digital gifts, no strings attached. That's right.

Premium pillows at unbeatable prices and bonus gifts to top it off. Don't wait. Head to mypillow.com today or call 800-9783057. Now. Don't forget to use promo code Eric to grab your standard. MyPillow for only 1798 only while supplies last. Folks, welcome back, as promised. My guest is Avner Boski, not to be confused with Abner Boski, who I don't know if he exists, but he's not my guest. My guest is Avner Boski, who is this moment as I speak to him in Israel in Beir Shiba. Avner, welcome.

It's good to be with you in Manhattan. I got to tell you, it's an amazing, I'm always stunned that I could be having conversation with somebody many, many thousands of miles away in Israel. You are a writer, your musician, you're a friend of my dear friend Ken Fish, which is how you come to my attention through Ken. How did you get to know Ken Fish? Let me, let's start there, because I'm always fascinated how people meet. It's something like 36 years ago. We came from Israel just after the first Gulf War, and we had been invited by a fellow named Jack Deere,

who used to work with John Wimber, to come and do an internship in Anaheim. And when I asked the Lord in Israel, where do you want me to focus? I got the word placentia. And placentia is not a maternity ward. Placentia was where Ken Fish was living. And we discovered that later on.

So we ended up becoming really good friends going back to 1991. Now, wait a second. First of all, I'm friends with Jack Deere. And so that's so interesting. I didn't know that. You mentioned John Wimber. I didn't have the honor of being a friend of John Wimber, but a great admirer of John Wimber and the Vineyard Movement.

So you're one of those crazy Christians. and I just want to say thank you for being a member of the crazy club, of which I also am a secret member. I would never say that publicly. But that's so extraordinary. Did you say, did you just say now that you got a word from God? You get that word from God placentia? Or did I miss you?

I think maybe I misheard you. No, you did. It was a wordlet, just a little word. A little. But I mean, that's, I love when I hear things like that, you know, because what an amazing, you know, even if somebody is not a believer, what would they say? You're lying. You made that up.

I mean, it's kind of amazing. You get a word and it turns out to be, oh, yes, God was speaking to me. And why does God do that? In part, to encourage us that he's real and he wants to lead us and guide us. So what is your story? Before we get into the larger issue of why Christians should stand with Israel, which I believe is true, and I want to talk about that. But what is your story? Where did you grow up? How did you come to faith? How did that happen? I have an interesting story. I guess everyone does, but I certainly do.

I was born in Montreal. My mother was a communist spy. My father was a member of the party in the states who had to flee with the FBI chasing him. He went to fight in Spain against Franco, the fascists, and then he ended up joining the U.S. Army. He was a wrestler in Mexico for five years, El Chimpanzee. Okay, now you're making stuff up. This is a serious program, Udner. Come on. Wait, who was a communist spy? My mother. Yeah, but everybody's mother was a communist spy. No, seriously, you've already thrown in a couple of amazing things. Your mother was a communist spy. No kidding. Your father ended up being a wrestler in Mexico. That's correct.

He wore a leather. El chimpanzee. He had a leather mask, and he only took it off three times in like two years of wrestling. When you lose, you've got to take your mask off. It's kind of like Darth Vader. And he was called the chimpanzee. That's correct. And that was a good thing, I guess.

Yes, it was. It was very different than living in Lower East Side. This is so crazy. Okay, so keep going. How did you come to faith? So I was raised to be a communist until about 1968. And there was something called the Russian invasion of Ukraine. No, it wasn't.

It was Czechoslovakia in Prague, the Prague Spring. We're not talking Russia. We're talking the Soviet Union. They're different, by the way, in case you're scoring it home. Yes, indeed. And what happened is I realized that not all was right in the state of Denmark. And so I began to question. is the Marxist perspective of changing economic influence

is going to change the human heart. And that led me on a search. At that time, we had Timothy Leary and Jimmy Hendricks and all kinds of people. And that led me on a search through unlicensed pharmacy to discover the reality of spirit issues. And again, in those days, our generation thought everything about the spirit was good.

and I began to realize, no, I began to meet actually some Satanists and other people and realized that there are bad things in the spirit world too. And I met a guy who was from Holland. He had been in the Dutch underground. And he said, he saw me reading occult books. He said, what are you reading that foolishness for? You're a Jewish person. You should be getting to know the God of Israel and the Messiah of Israel.

And this was a shock to me because every church I went into, Jesus looked like he was from northern Europe, not from the Middle East. And I'd never heard of a personal relationship either. So eventually I ended up reading a book that said that the most significant event in the 20th century was the return of the Jewish people to their promised land according to the words of the Hebrew prophets. and I ended up getting to the point of asking God if this was real to show me personally and I had a very powerful encounter on the sitting on the back of the bus. Were you literally on a bus? Yes, indeed. And you had an encounter with God on the back of a bus.

I was actually in an island in Montreal called Il-Jes-Zou, the island of Jesus. On a bus. On a bus. The magic bus. It sounds pretty magic So you had an encounter Can you say more about that? Well, I

Decided to ask God if all the stuff was true And I said if this is true And Yeshua, that's his The name his mother used to call him We call him Jesus in the rest of the world If he is the Messiah And if he died on the cross for me Then would you come into my life

And forgive my sins? And all of a sudden boom the Holy Spirit just entered me like hot oil, filled me right up, and I realized three things right away. No one was talking to me, just God's presence was there. And I realized this is what I'm created for. If I die, I'm going to be with him forever. And now my life makes sense. That was the beginning.

That's so beautiful. What year was that? It was May 24th, 1974, four years after I first did LSD on the day. Wow. If people want to find you, they can go to Final Frontier Ministries. Is that right? No, they would look a long time for that. They'd go to Davidstent.org.

David'stent.org. Yeah. You're affiliated with Final Frontier Ministries? That's our ministry, but it's too long to use as an email address. Okay, so David'stent.org. Mm-hmm. Okay, so, Avner, I wanted to talk to you about, you know, I was just amazed when I became a believer, I really, you know, I said to the born again friends that I had made, you know, help me understand the faith. What's what?

and I pretty quickly picked up some basic things, you know. You don't have sex outside of marriage, which I already knew pretty quickly. You're against killing the unborn. We love Israel. You know, kind of like the stuff that I didn't believe before. But now I thought, so what are some of these things that you Christians believe? And I was fascinated by the love for Israel. I thought that's so interesting because I think a lot of people would paint Christians as the enemies of Jews or Israel.

And all these people who love Jesus love Israel. And so it's been a strange thing suddenly to see, you know, after October 7th, how many people who think of themselves as Christians siding with the Palestinians or rehearsing what they believe are the evils of the Israeli government. and it's been a very divisive time. And I've always been amazed because I thought, this is not complicated, you know, standing with the Jews. This doesn't mean I agree with everything in the Jewish faith. I mean, I believe in Jesus.

Maybe Benjamin Netanyahu does not. But that's a separate issue. Tucker Carlson invited Ted Cruz, Senator Ted Cruz from Texas onto his program. And Ted Cruz said the same kind of basic thing. He's like, I was raised you. and with Israel. And he got such pushback from Tucker. And Tucker can sometimes be dismissive in an unpleasant way and was really challenging Ted Cruz. Like, well, what does that mean?

You know, he was just very, very, he wasn't really giving him an opportunity to answer that question. And so I thought I'd love to give you an opportunity to talk about that. with me. So when we come back, folks, I'm talking to Avner Boski, and you can find him at David's tent.org. We'll be right back. Hey, folks, welcome back. I'm talking to Avner Boski. He's with David's tent.org. If you want to find him, david's tent.org. But so, Avner, I was just saying, help my audience understand what is it when we say, you know, I believe in Jesus.

I'm a follower of Jesus. You know, the Bible is my book. Why should I stand with Israel? And what does that mean? Because I think there's a lot of misunderstanding what that means. I had a teacher once whose name was Hendricks. It wasn't Jimmy. It was a guy named Howard, Howard Hendricks.

And he used to say a text without a text, without a context is a pretext. And I think that's one of the things that so many believers, people who call themselves Christians, don't always know the Bible. For instance, you mentioned Ted Cruz and Tucker Carlson. What does the scripture say? This is so, so important.

Genesis 12, 3, that they argued over. It says in Hebrew, I will bless those who bless you and the one who dishonors you, I will curse. That's the Hebrew. Mikalalekha, oh, the one who treats you lightly, who dismisses you. And people like Tucker or even Candice would say that refers now to Christians. But actually, if you go to Numbers 23, you'll see Balam, the famous wizard from Mesopotamia. He says, how pleasant are your tents, oh, Jacob.

blessed as everyone who blesses you, Jacob. So it's the same people. So that promise God gave to the Jewish people, it's a protective promise. It's the good news and the bad news. If you bless the Jews, you're blessed, and if you even ignore them or dis them, you're cursed. That's kind of the beginning.

And the reason I think, Eric, sometimes it's so difficult for many people is because we're really influenced by what you would call Hellenism, Greek culture, the concept that what's really wonderful is the concept, but not on earth. But Jesus said, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. And that's the whole concept that God is going to redeem this earth and the people he's chosen as his firstborn. And so when we talk about the firstborn, that's something that most people haven't ever

thought about, but it's very, very biblical. Well, I can understand both sides of this, and yet I agree with you, but when people, when some, there are people, you know, who just don't get this. Like, I can understand Tucker saying, what do you mean? Because Tucker is not an evangelical. He did not grow up in the church. So when he says he's a Christian, he's a Christian who has not been inside the faith for very long.

And there's so much he doesn't know. And that became very clear in that interview and at other times that he didn't get the memo that we Christians, we stand with the Jews. He didn't get that memo. And so he was baffled by it and in some ways hostile to it. But I think to give him the benefit of the doubt, you'd want to say to somebody like that, listen, I understand why you don't understand this. I understand your confusion. how do we help them with that confusion? You know, in other words, because they would say,

well, what does it mean that I stand with Israel or with the Jews? In other words, what are we asking people to see? Well, I think it starts with the heart of God because God says in Deuteronomy 7 that the reason he chose the Jewish people is because he loves them. And it's really fascinating. If you go back one chapter, Deuteronomy 6, you get the Shma,

which is, you will love the Lord, your God with all your heart. And then God turns around one chapter later and says, and I love Israel. And so if we, you know how it is? So many theologians, they live in their heads. So many even newscasters live in their heads. But God is saying this is also an issue of the heart.

I love this people. And I think we need to start there. If we don't get that, we'll go far. But they say in Yiddish, you can travel a long way a lie, but you can never come home. Some things in the church that's happened over the past 1800 years. It started with Marcian, and then

to continue with people like Justin and Origin, and some which we call today replacement theology. Some of your guests have mentioned this before. Replacement theology says basically God couldn't wait to get rid of the Jews. He actually loves Gentiles more. So you've got this competition going on. But God said, actually, I choose the Jews.

so that they can be a servant to the nations and teach people about who God is, what he feels, what he thinks. He gave us the Bible to pass it on to the nations. He gave us the Messiah to pass it on to the nations. So we can't really say Christ is king and forget that Jesus is the king of the Jews. They go together.

Can't separate them. It's so interesting because this is nuanced. I can see people just not getting it. but part of it really is I would say that it's kind of like a parent with a child. You say, I love my child. And somebody says, well, let me tell you about your child. Your child is a drug addict and they're stealing from the neighbors and they're a wicked person. And you'd say, well, even if that's true, I love my child.

In fact, I may love my child more because it breaks my heart. That's how much I love my child. And so God's love for Israel doesn't mean God approves of what every Jew does in history or of what the Israeli government does. It's a different thing than that. And this is what Paul was saying in Romans 1 and 2. He said not only do Jews sin, but Gentile sin too. And he said, actually, everybody sins. And so everybody's under condemnation.

What anti-Semitism is, though, is doing a double standard. in saying the Jews are the greatest sinners. That's about right. We're going to go to a break, folks. I'm talking to Avner Boski. We'll be right back. Welcome back, talking to Avner Boski. We're talking about Israel, the Jews, the Gentiles.

Keep going, Avner. You're saying a lot of important things. I think that we have to start with the heart of God. For some reason, he puts somebody in first place, in the sense of firstborn. Think about Joseph. Joseph had 11 brothers, and his father, Jacob, really liked Joseph. And his brother said, whatever dad wants,

we totally agree with this. You know, he loves Joseph. That's fine by us. We love Joseph to death. And that's what they did. They sold them to some Ishmaelites, took him to Egypt, said, now we're rid of him.

The issue of the calling of the Jewish people often creates similar responses with people. They say, why the Jews? And somebody once said, you know, why the Jews? What is it? How odd of God to choose the Jews, but not so odd as those who choose the Jewish God and hate the Jews. I never heard the second part of that. How odd of God to choose the Jews. Say it again?

but not so odd as those who choose the Jewish God and hate the Jews. Well, it's interesting. I think it really comes down to jealousy in many cases, right? And also a misunderstanding. To be chosen, it doesn't mean you're better. It's really a burden to be chosen by God. Any prophet that is chosen by God, when I was writing my book on Bonhofer, I saw this, because I think he's writing about Jeremiah.

It's a horrible thing in some ways to be chosen by God. You say, no, Lord, don't choose me. Don't choose me, because I know if you choose me, you're calling me to suffer. You're calling me to have responsibility that others don't have. But if you choose me, I accept. And that's the point. We know that not every Jew accepts the idea that God has chosen the Jews for his purposes.

Nonetheless, God has chosen the Jews for his purposes. I think, but I think that in many cases, you get people who don't understand that and they think it means, oh, the Jews are special, like they're better. It's like, no, no, that's not what it is to be chosen by God. It's a grave burden to be chosen by God. It's an honor, but it's a burden. And I think that people, maybe they think that, yeah, to say the Jews are God's chosen means they're, Oh, they're special. They're better. It's like, no, no, folks, you're missing it. That's not really what it means to be chosen. And as you said, Avner, the Jews were chosen to show the Gentiles

the way to God. I mean, they were chosen for God's purposes by God. And it must dismay you as a Jew living in Israel to see the anti-Semitism that we're seeing. I have to say it has absolutely shocked me. Since I wrote the book on Bonhofer, I just couldn't dream that I would see this kind of thing. You know, by the way, I really enjoyed your book. I was given to me by my mother-in-law many years ago and really enjoyed it. And it's a good word, especially now when so many people are getting challenged

in terms of, are we willing to stand for what's right when it gets, hard. There's an old line in Fiddler on the roof where Tevia says to God in his informal praying and he says, God, you've chosen us out of all the peoples on the face of the earth. Just for once, why don't you choose somebody else?

See, so many Jewish people don't understand this issue because they say either way the nations are going to get angry at us. If we win the war, they'll get angry at us. If we lose the war, they'll say a eulogy. But, you know, how do we, what do we stand for?

I grew up without believing in God. My father was a canter. He was a canter in the U.S. Army, and he loved singing, but he didn't believe in God. And yet when he sang, he was touching something deep inside that didn't come out in the rest of his life. So I think many Jewish people, they're afraid of, if I believe in God, what does it mean? Am I primitive? I can be rejected? Who is God?

And so I think many Jewish people are asking that question. And of course, as believers in Yeshua, in Jesus, the Messiah, we have something to share with, that's how I came to faith. You know, we're less than 1% of the world, you know? And God uses us and says, I'm still going to use you. This is the amazing thing. It's kind of like a marriage covenant. He never forgets. He has that one kiss in Ezekiel 16.

he says, that's it. They're going to be my firstborn. They're not the only ones in the family, but they're my firstborn. Yeah, it is extraordinary. And I think that, again, if you love Jesus, just the idea that he was a rabbi. He came to fulfill the Old Testament. He was the fulfillment. And so the more I learn about the Old Testament,

the more I understand Jesus. So I think you have a lot of people, and this goes back 2,000 years, who are somehow trying to create a Christianity that's divorced from the Old Testament. And by the way, who tried to do that? The Nazis. A Christianity that's divorced from the Old Testament

is satanic. Let's say that way. Believe it or not, not only the Institute for the Gets getting rid of Jews that you're talking about, which happened in Eisenbach in Germany, but you're having that again now on American radio and television of people saying, I'm a Christian, but the Jews are demonic. It's the same type of thing, and it goes all the way back to Marcian,

and it goes back actually to Revelation 12. Didn't Candace say something, Candice Owen say something like that? Yeah, you know what I say? I forget people's names. But in all seriousness, when I hear her say stuff like that, I think I'm shocked. I'm shocked because it's one thing for somebody to say, I disagree with the IDF's policies and they did this and then maybe we can't have something to talk about. But to say some of the things that she said, I thought, wow, this is bad. This is really.

There was an actor years ago, Mel Gibson, and his father was involved with a certain group in Australia. England. And I believe Candice may also, through marriage, be involved in the same group. I forget the name of the group. And the point behind it is, they are feeding on some sources, some dark, polluted wells of anti-Semitism that go back. And again, once Jonathan Kahn was on your program, and he talked about

Revelation 12 and the dragon concept there. Satan is the one who, whatever God chooses to love, Satan chooses to hate. And that's the issue here. It's not as much as a political issue. It's a spiritual issue which has political ramifications. We'll be right back. Welcome back, talking to Avner Boski. You can find him at davidstent.org. So, Avner, just a few minutes, and I'm sorry, I'll need have a few minutes, but you mentioned Mel Gibson, his father.

There are certain Catholic groups. their fringe, let's say, that kind of buy into some of this crazy stuff. They don't represent the Catholic Church, but I think you mentioned, you did mention Mel Gibson's father, and Mel Gibson at one point went on some drunken rant about the Jews. And it's just, it's so disheartening to hear someone that you, you know, love and respect in so many ways and admire, give voice to something like that, which I think is demonic. I'll tell you the good news. It's wonderful that there's some Gentiles who do love the Jews. Not all the Gentiles feel that way like some of these terrible things happened.

You know, you go back to Zechariot 2, verse 8, and it says that God looks at the world through the apple of his eye, through the Jewish people. And when you think about how the enemy has raged for a long time. I mean, you start with God talking to Abraham, right? We started this discussion about God talking to people, hearing God's voice. That's how it all began, God talking to Abraham. And then very soon you have Pharaoh, who says, I'm going to destroy the seed of Israel.

I want genocide against the Jewish people. And what's kind of ironic today is you've got Hamas, which is trying to destroy the Jewish people, yet they're accusing Israel of genocide and the world is buying it. So the world is voting for Pharaoh when God is voting for Israel. Things haven't changed that much. Plu Ksa change, plus it's la-ememmem, they say in Turkish. In Greek, it's, plus a change, plus say la mon shows.

There you go. I believe that's the Greek, yes. So, well, no, it, it, this is what I keep coming back to is that through history, you see all these different groups wanting to kill all the Jews. And I think that's got to say something. If you know nothing, the idea that these disparate groups would want to murder all the Jews.

Why? I mean, it seems like the Jews are chosen by Satan for destruction. Why? Because God loves them and Satan hates what God loves. It's not that complicated. I mean, there are even people who don't seem to see the, the creation of the state of Israel in 1948 as miraculous.

And I think that's amazing. So you just think this is some group that has hung out, you know, since the beginning of time. I mean, where's the Hittite state? It's such an amazing thing that it becomes a state and it's so beautiful. And so I have to, you know, say to me that this is the kind of thing that makes, me say, you've got to be kidding if you don't see that there is something that God is doing here. You know, we've just got 30 seconds, Avner, final word. A dear friend of mine once said, God offends the mind to reveal the heart.

And I think that's what's going on with the Jewish people. God has put his seal on them. He's not only loving them in the past and present. He's got plans, as Bob Dylan would say, of his own to set up his throne when he returns and it's going to be Jerusalem. So there's a lot still coming with the Jewish people, and maybe another time we'll get a chance to get into that. Well, I would like to have you back to continue the conversation. That would be a joy. So let's just plan on that. And in the meantime, thank you, folks. If you would like to know more, you can go to davidstent.org, davidstet

org. Opner, thank you. God bless you. Thank you, Eric. It's good to be with you.