The Eric Metaxas Show - Babylon Bee

Episode Date: April 12, 2024

Babylon Bee dudes Kyle Mann and Jarret LeMaster drop by the studio. More at https://babylonbee.com/

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m. Investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments. Ladies and gentlemen, are you ready to listen to a man of grace, sophistication, integrity, and whimsy? Well, so are we. But until such a man shows up, please welcome Eric Mattaxas. Hey there, folks. In case I haven't mentioned it, I have a brand new book out called Religionless Christianity, God's Answer to Evil. And in the book, I've never written a book like this, and I'm actually curious what people make of it. But one of the things that I talk about in the book, chapter six is the spirit behind cancel culture. And I talk about how this occurred

when the Nazis were trying to persecute faithful Christians in Germany, they were persecuting others. But cancel culture was at work. It just wasn't called that back then. And it is happening now. It's happened at other times. So I wrote a chapter called the spirit behind cancel culture. And so I say, if we're putting forward the idea of religionless Christianity as the answer to the evil we're seeing around us, we should draw a picture of what that evil looks like. And at the dark heart of the evil we're seeing in our time lies that hideous thing called cancel culture. Most of us have experienced something of cancel culture or we have at least seen it in operation around us. And then I talk about how it works. And I talk about how, like, you know, somebody says something.

People freak out about what that person said and they come after them. The mob comes after them. And that's happened to me a number of times, but it's happened to others much, much more dramatically than it ever happened to me. And I talk about the spirit behind it, because the spirit behind cancel culture, and it is a demonic spirit. It doesn't believe in truth or justice. So it pretends to say, oh, that's bad. You did a bad thing. But if you apologize, they don't accept the apology. They just kind of, it's, it's kind of like, uh, what, um, Jack Pesobic, uh, when he was on the, on, he talked about the struggle sessions that they have in communist countries. Like, they just, they just want to crush you. And so they want you to confess, but then they don't forgive

you. Like you confess as an example to everyone else and you better shut up. And then they send you to the gulag. Yeah, or meet you with baseball battles. Yeah, or something like that. And so I, I talk about that in, in the book, how, all that's really going on is that they pretend to have some standard of justice or equality, but there is none because the devil does not have a standard of justice or quality. He doesn't believe in those things, but he pretends to believe in those things so that he can crush you on the way to crushing you. They talk about that.

And it has to do with, you know, what I call the spirit behind cancel culture. And I talk about Martin Niemuller. Some people know that if you read my Bonhofer book or you probably, you probably, about it without having read my Bonhoeffer book, but I talk about Martin Niemöller a lot in this book and a lot of Bonhofer in the book. And Martin Niemöller is someone who, in the beginning of what was going on in Germany,

he was vaguely pro-Hitler. He was basically saying, listen, Hitler's not as bad as we think. People around him are more radical, but we can work with him. I've met with him. Martin Niemler was a very distinguished patriot. He was awarded the Iron Cross for his service in World War I. for Germany. And so he thought, you know, Hitler, ultimately, he can be reasoned with. And then, of course,

he realized, whoops, I was wrong. And by the time he realized he was wrong, it was too late. And so I write about that in the book. But so I write about the spirit behind cancel culture. And in chapter seven, which is called Further Thoughts on Cancel Culture, I quote Martin Nemeller's poem that he wrote after the war. And some of you know it. First, they came for the communists, and I did not speak out because I was not a communist. Then they came for the socialists and I did not speak out because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me. And that's part of what happens with canceled culture

is they pick people off to try to make an example of you, but they never stop. So if you don't stand for that person who's being canceled, like our friend Mike Lindell or me or anybody, then they just, they pick these people off, and then they go to the next one, the next one, and the next one. And I use the example of our friend Kirk Cameron, who's been on the program. I actually write about him in this book, that he said, like, I don't know, was it 2012? It was like a million years ago. He goes on like Pierce Morgan and says in the kindest, most gracious way imaginable that he

believes in the biblical idea of marriage between a man and a woman. And for this, he is vilified. People freak out like he's some fire-breathing hate monger. And I thought, how many pastors, I'm not going to mention names, but how many pastors, prominent Christian pastors, did not defend him. They said, you know what, I don't want any trouble. Let the wolves have him, and we'll just keep going. well, that's the way it works. So they come after one. You don't speak up, and then they come after the next one, and you don't speak up, and they come after the next one.

And then eventually they're going to come for you. That's just the way it is. It's kind of like in the book of Esther, which I've been talking about lately. Esther's like, well, you know, I'm the queen. And so I don't want any trouble with the king. And Mordecai says, hey, Esther, you're a Jew. Do you think that when this edict is to kill all the Jews, you're going to escape, they're going to get to you eventually. You better speak up now. That's

what we need to do. So when they cancel somebody, I don't care if you agree with that person, you should not, you know, jump on that bandwagon of attacking or of being silent. And so actually, I'm really radical about this. When they go after Alec Baldwin, I disagree with him on like almost everything. But when they were like, oh, he's a murderer, he, but, but I'm like, you know what? No, I don't think he's a murderer. I think let's be fair. Let's be scrupulously fair because when you play that game, it'll eventually bite you. And I think, I mean, that's not a great example. Kirk Cameron is the great example, that how many pastors said, we're not going to speak up for Kirk Cameron. Let them cancel him. And we're just going to get to keep preaching the gospel, the dead pseudo-gospel from our dead

mega-church. We're just going to keep playing church because we don't want, we don't want to fight for what is right and good and true. We're just going to ignore it. That is the spirit of cancel culture, and it's sick. And anyway, I write about it in the book because we need to understand how it works, and we need to stand up for people. I don't care who they go after. You don't have to agree with that person or anything, but whenever the mob comes after somebody, you need to understand the spirit behind that mob. It doesn't believe in truth. It just believes in winning. And so that's part of what I write about here. And, you know, we've experienced cancel culture On this program, I mentioned Mike Lindell.

By the way, I say support anybody who's being canceled. Go to my store.com. You can buy my books there. Use the code Eric. Go to Mypillow.com. Use the code Eric. Anybody, if they're coming after them, that's an indication to me. I need to stand up for them.

There's a number of things I write about in here that are, I have to say, I think that's going to surprise some people. And one of the things I write about is the Tower of Babel, or the Tower of Babel. And I talk about how all religion, in the negative sense, is a satanic project to supplant God, right? So we know that Jesus actually came to end religion. Religion is the effort to, if I do this and this and this and this,

somehow I can, you know, solve the problem with evil. And Jesus came to say, you can never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, solve the problem of evil. Only I, God, can solve the problem of evil. And then by faith in me and by faith in what I have done to solve the problem of evil, then you can participate in standing against evil. But if you try to do it on your own. What about, you know, we all have the power within, man. Yeah, man. We're all gods, man. So that, okay, so. We have the divine inside of us all, man. Yeah, man. So that's, that's the point. So there's more to it. But it's this concept of we can breach the distance between us and heaven on our own. And what Satan wants to do,

of course, and the scriptures talk about this, and I quote it in the book, but he wants to go into heaven and murder God and take God's place. And so dead religion, the effort to kind of join Satan in this and somehow deal with evil, deal with this utopian scheme that you see in all these communist revolutions. It's anti-god, basically. And so that's really what dead religion is. It's this way of somehow, it's kind of like saying I want to get to, you know, Easter Sunday, but not through the cross. And so that's ultimately what dead religion ends up being. I mean, there's a lot more to it. You can have to read the book. But in the meantime, please pre-order religionless Christianity God's answer to evil by Eric Metaxus.

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Legacy p.m. Investments.com. Check it out. Hey there, folks. As I warned you, I got a couple of the dudes from the Babylon B in the studio in New York. I believe their names are Jared McMaster. La Master, yeah. But I can call you Jared. I can call you Jared. It's Jared with a tea. And you're Kyle. Kyle. Mon? Yes. Not man.

It's actually a man. I don't know why I said that. Because Thomas Mon. That's why I said it. Yeah. Thomas Mon. So Kyle Mann and Jared. Jared Lamath.

Not man. We're not related. We're not married. So what are your titles at the... You've been on the program before. We've had a lot of fun with you. And that stops now. So what are your official titles at the Babylon Day?

I am the editor-in-chief. Look, you don't need to get all puffed up about it. I am the editor in chief. He is the editor. You see the glasses. You see the coat. Then you have your reward because you just declared it to the world. You're supposed to keep that stuff between you and the Lord, bro.

You know, you don't need to tell the whole world, oh, I'm the editor in chief. Come at me. Yeah. And what is your role? What's your role? I am the, I'm executive producer, is my word. And I'm also an actor there. Yeah.

On camera guy. You played the devil? I do. know what, it was not believable because everybody knows Joe Biden is the devil. That's a good point. That's true. Yeah. I hadn't thought of that. Have you played Joe Biden yet? I haven't. We should. I mean, the fact that he doesn't walk around with a pitchfork, who's he kidding? I know. He should. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. He should. Somebody should offer one to him. Yeah, I wish it were actually funny. So you guys are at the Babylon B. You're making it happen. You're doing a lot of stuff.

I want to say to my, to my audience, that you were here in the TBNC, studios, and you brought Jordan Peterson with you. Yeah, he's just our friend. We were just hanging out. We call him Jordan. And as... That's actually what I call him, Jordy Peterson. And so you did a thing with him here, and then he did my show.

And man, can that guy talk? These Canadians, unbelievable. You know? It's pretty crazy. Yeah. It's because people we think of them as timid, right? Yeah. The timid Canadians.

I feel like Canadians are always apologizing. But so how did you, I mean, I've known him. You know, he had me on his podcast and, you know, we've had dinner. But I've never had him on the show. And I wouldn't have had him on our show unless you guys kind of connected with him here in New York. So he was at Radio City Music all the other night. And you guys had him. I don't know.

You just, you've been after him. I think we did a joke about him a few months ago. And he shared it on his. X page. And he said, you know, we should get together in time. We should get together and talk with these Christian satires.

Talk with the flat boys from the Babylon B. And we over there. So we DM'd them and said, let's make it happen. And he's like, great, here's my email. And we reached out.

Here's my email. Thank you. Every time I say something, I want you to repeat. I just want to say that he doesn't sound like that. Yeah. He sounds a little bit like that. It's like, here, Bucco.

No, he doesn't say Buckle. He says, buddy. Buddy? I don't know how you can talk about God. God. Well, anyway, thanks to you guys. I got to interview him. I think we played that yesterday. But here I'm with you now. So what are you doing besides interviewing Jordan Peterson? What is new at the Babylon B? Yeah, we're trying to keep up with the news, trying to write stuff that the Democrats haven't already done in life. You know, that's our, that's always our challenge trying to stay ahead of it. I mean, we saw this thing with Sheila Jackson yesterday. Oh, oh. The moon is made of gas. There's nothing greater. Yeah, it's probably heavier than. No, listen. I also want to talk to you

about the, I also want to talk to you about the view. Because there's sometimes that you know that people aren't that bright, and then they just go and prove it on a level that you couldn't have fantasized about. Sheila Jackson Lee, she's always been kind of an ornery, political hack, I mean, for decades. Like, she's just one of these figures. She's, you know, bad news. But she goes in front of a bunch of kids at Bookerty, Washington High School. Bookerty, Washington is a hero, okay?

He would have been turning over in his grave. I mean, he was, you know, what she said? It was, I mean, she basically, she may as well have said the moon is made of green cheese. Well, it's highly inaccurate. Yeah. She said the moon, she's, but what's funny is she's talking to, students, most of whom know what she's saying is wrong, right? Like she actually said the moon is, is, uh, it's, it's like a ball of gas. It's made of gas. And it's kind of weird how we would go there

and because how do we deal with the gases or something like that? How are we going to look there in the ball and game? And the sun is, um, it's a, it may be too hot to get close to. It's almost too hot. Maybe. Almost too hot to get close to. But that's nothing. That's like you could just say that's just kind of, you know, but she flat out said some really crazy stuff. And I thought, wow, this is, it's a, it's a frightening thing when you, you pontificate in a way that proves you got nothing. Well, then again, the public education system, maybe those kids didn't know. Maybe they didn't know, yeah. And they were like, oh, made of gas. Made of gas. Write that down. Yeah. Somebody write that down. Venerable congresswoman said that the moon is loaded with gases. Anyway, let's try not to talk about Sheila Jackson Lee anymore. more. But wait, what else?

Yeah, we're working on that. We're working on all this fun stuff like getting to interview Jordan Peterson and filming all kinds of fun stuff like that. So, you know, we're just looking to take our satire to the next level when it comes to video and all that. So the video sketches of Jarrett's in. I mean, those are obviously hilarious where we get to do

Satan giving updates on Roe v. Wade. They're obviously hilarious. Obviously, so funny. So funny. Because I ride them and you act in them. Yes. I'm so hilarious. It's so funny.

I've interviewed both of you before, but... But not together. But not together. Yeah. And I want to go back and ask the kind of question that, you know, you guys are doing funny at a very high level. And did you, at any point in your life, did you know you were funny? Like, at what point did you realize, oh, I could do comedy? Yeah, so I started doing comedic acting stuff, like, in high school.

Okay. And so, yeah, I mean, you kind of, you can get a sense like... Well, you get in theater. In theater, you get a really immediate response. So you have a theater background. Yeah. Okay, you do not have a theater background. I did theater in high school.

Oh, you did? Yeah. You didn't tell me that during our last interview. You held back. You actually never told me that either. Oh, I just made it up right now. But no, I really did. I really did do theater.

So then you have that set to you because you pretend like, you know, I just was like a business guy selling fire hydrants. Well, that is what I mean, that is what I did for 12 years. And I did gravitate more towards the writing side of things. Like, I liked being on stage and having fun and getting the laughs from the audience. But I preferred, like, I wrote plays in high school that we would then perform, and I would be in them, but I liked writing them. You wrote plays in high school? See, he didn't tell me this when I interviewed you. Kyle is also being modest, though. He's very good on camera. He's very funny on camera. So he's very dry.

It's like there's a lot of different kinds. My humor is kind of more along the lines of like a character creation. Yeah, yeah. And also, you mean like kind of interpreting those characters, interpreting the work that he writes. But he's extremely dry and funny, just like saying the line. So, like, you know, if you were to draw a picture of Kyle or a cartoon of Kyle, it would. would be that guy with the slanted eyes that just says the line like this. Yes. And it would be funny. What's the slanted eyes? No, you kind of have these, you kind of have shifty eyes.

It's kind of like Clint Eastwood vibe. Yeah. Well, I'll take it. I'll take it. Yeah. Let me, so let me ask you, a lot of people, you know, consume the Babylon B on X, right? I do. And I never click on it to read the article.

I just read the headline because I read them as jokes. Like you created a Twitter joke. that's the joke. Ha, ha, it's hilarious. So I almost wonder, like, why are you spending time writing the actual articles? Yeah, well, we do get a decent bit of traffic of people that visit the website and actually read the article. Those are the good people. The people who just read it on X, they're going to be the death of our business.

They're the bad. But, I mean, no, that's always been part of it is that you're giving people the joke for free, you know, and then there's just a little bonus. And you click through, there's more, you know, news reporting on that joke. But you realize that the way you write the joke, you don't feel like, oh, and there's just a little. then there's more. It just, it feels like it's a Twitter joke and I'm done. It doesn't feel like it's leading to more. I just want to make you aware of your failure as businessman to lure people in because it just feels complete. When I read the tweet, it feels like that's the joke. Ha, ha, ha,

brilliant. They did it again. But I don't feel like, oh, there's more behind that. Yeah, well, that's part of what moving into doing more sketches and video and film and TV and stuff is, yeah, because you can have a really funny premise, but then people also want to see it developed, you know, as part of a full, you know. Yeah, the goal is literally, I mean, I think our goal is to move into sort of a production house where we can create TV and film and we're moving. We're trying to find good partners for that right now. I was saying this, I could have been a good partner, but you can't afford me now.

No, seriously, a few years ago, that was my thinking. I thought, I wonder if these guys would be able to transition into doing this other stuff. So when I've seen you do it, I've just been thrilled because, you know, that's not so easy to go from the written page humor to sketch comedy or whatever it is we call it. It's fun to see how the sense of humor, though, that dry satire can move into that space. Like it feels like there's a huge void right now. Like conservatives, Christians, there's nobody writing good comedy for that. You know why? It feels like there's a huge void because there is a huge void. Yeah.

Have you seen like the late night talk shows? Oh, nobody has. Nobody, comedy died. Well, it's not just that there's a comedy void. It's actually, I mean, it's a conservative comedy void. Yeah. It's that there's just a comedy. Oh, no, that's what I meant.

I think there are certain things that are still funny. And every once in a while, you kind of, there's an article by the onion that's still funny, like every once in a while. But you don't. Name one. Do people still read the onion? Hey, wait a minute. Hey, wait a minute. We have to go to a break.

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Talking to a couple of dudes from the Babylon B, Kyle Mann and Jared La Master. It's Jarrett. Oh, it's Jarrett. Yeah, with a T at the end. Gerrit. Yeah, I think I'd explain that before once or twice. Gerrit.

Well, if you say quickly, it's Jarrett. Jarrett with a glottal stroke at the end, yes, but not a D. This is a family show, if you don't mind. So, so. On a day-to-day level, what do you guys do at the Babylon B? I mean, do you go into the offices? Do you work from home in your pajamas? Yes.

Do you have any self-respect at all? To all that is happening. I work without pants as much as possible, whether I'm working from home or not. But we, yeah, we go in and you know, you go on X. You gather the news of the day. You see what everybody's up to, and then you figure out what's the punching bag today, you know? Did Trump say something dumb? Let's be honest.

It was stupid. Likely. Maybe he did. It was pretty dumb. Did the Democrats do something dumb? Yes. And we just find out what we're going to make fun of that day. And we just try to come up with the absolute best joke. Yeah. And I think part of it, too, when you convert those into my job is in the studio, in the production side. So I'm looking for partners to work with. I'm talking to producers.

I'm like wrangling locations. I'm casting actors. And you're not being paid enough, obviously. No. At all, really, actually. Listen, I just want to be clear that I think when you say like we check, we check a the news of the day, the Shela Jackson-Lee, like, lunatic speech, that could be a new, it could open the door

to a whole new kind of comedy. Like, I think it's the sort of thing that you could be talking about this for years. There's something there. It's like you want to create a character, the Sheila Jackson-Lee character, just saying more stuff like this, to kids, to children. Well, we already have that with Kamala.

So, like, we, it's very similar. They're very competitively. Yeah. Yeah, it's, uh. Well, Kamel is more like a giggly saying nothing. Like she's a bubblehead. Sheila Jackson Lee is like a little scary. Yeah, she's like...

It's like a level of scary... A drunk flamingo flying through the... She had the statement that the AR-15 is as heavy as 10 moving boxes. Yeah, boxes that you might want to make. Wait, who said that? Sheila Jackson Lee said that. She said the AR-15, it's heavy. It's very heavy.

It's as heavy as moving boxers might want to move. That's my theory. I'm just floating it out there. boxes. Wow. That's how you measure. Wow. Oh, how many boxes is that way? Yeah. I just lost a box, you know, last week. So who really does the work at the Babylon B? You guys are obviously hanging out here. Who's working now? Yeah, we have a great staff of people that will fill out the jokes, fill out the articles, do the Photoshop's. We have a great crew of people that work on that all day. We got a dozen writers from around the country that are bouncing ideas around in a group chat, you know, throwing headlikes.

ideas in and we're editing them and picking them and doing all that fun stuff. So it's, it's an awesome crew. It's a team effort. It's collaborative. And it is the kind of thing. Like when we were hanging out with Jordan Peterson interviewing him, he's like, you guys get paid for this? Yeah. Like, do you guys actually make money doing this? Like how he, I think he called the Babylon be the most unlikely idea. Yeah. Or like the worst business idea of all time that happened to succeed. If someone were to come into you and say, I want a Christian satire site, nobody would find out. Here's my business plan. Here's $10. Here's my business plan. Christian satire. Yeah.

You know, that's not going to work. Yeah, last night, Kyle and I were, last night we were in Times Square, just kind of overlooking the whole thing. And I just was like, Kyle, do you ever sit there and think to yourself, how did this happen? What are we doing? What is this? How did we get here?

Like, this is, why do we get to do this as a job? And it's like the craziest thing that God has kind of opened the door for us to do it. Very grateful. Well, let's be, let's get serious for a minute. It's God. It's the Lord. God is using, you guys. and humor as a force for good in our time.

It's a truth-telling thing. It's delightful. And as I say, every time you guys are on the show or I talk to you, I mean, I wrote for the humor magazine in college, I've written humor pieces for the New York Times and da-da-da-da. That world is very important to me. And so to see you guys do it at the level you're doing it at, it's a big deal because a lot of people sort of doing humor

or it's not that funny, for you guys actually being able to pull it off the level you do, it's amazing. I mean, look, it's the greatest irony. I mean, it used to be, like, the left that was doing comedy and that was, you know, sticking it to the man. The left is, like, now in bed with the authoritarian state and big pharma and big tech and defending every lie of the establishment, whereas, you know, conservative Christians are, you know, the daring voices. Is that, who saw that coming? Well, comedy comes from the fringes, you know,

and you can't write comedy when you're the man, you know, when you are the man. Yeah. Well, they, I mean, it's the long march through the institutions. But you can if you're Kyle, man. Hey, I like it. They, they became, edit that out. And they became, you know, the, yeah, they became the dominant force in the culture. So suddenly they were the ones with the power.

And then when you get the power, the temptation is to use that power to beat others over the head. Rather than to use it. for good purposes. So it's kind of interesting how that actually happened. Well, I think with Kyle, it's interesting because I've hanging out with comedians for the last couple of years, I've realized that comedians are by nature rebels. They're very rebellious people. Kyle is like a rebellious warrior, and I'm like his shield bearer. Get out. That's kind of the way it feels to me.

Do you feel like a rebellious warrior? I don't think a rebellious warrior would wear that shirt and jacket. I do. No. I think it's more like a middle manager would wear that. No, this is like, this is punk. 100% beneath this suit. Beneath the suit. All right, then I'll accept that. He's a punk rocker.

He's a punk rocker. Yeah, that's right. You wouldn't be my shield bearer. No, what would I be? Armor bearer? Like, maybe my trusty steed. That you can ride. I don't really understand where this is going,

but I know enough to know that it's going in a wrong direction. So we're going to go to a commercial break. Didn't think before decided. I have a great story to tell you about our friends at Americans for Prosperity. Here's what they just did. They bought the Bidenomics.com website name from under Joe Biden's nose. That's like Pepsi buying Coca-Cola.com. Do yourself a favor and visit bidonomics.com.

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Welcome back, talking to the Babylon B dudes. There are other dudes, but you are two of them. Two of them, yeah. And so you were trying to establish, like, you know, is he the armor bearer? And you were saying that he's the Sam Wise. Yeah, Sam Wise to my Frodo. To your Frodo. Yeah.

So have we nailed it? Can we stop now? Can we move on to other subjects? Yeah, we can. You figured it out? I think that's right, actually. I feel better about that. Who are your comedic antecedents?

I mean, the onion, obviously. You know, and like, I just think it's so recent. I don't go back. Okay, yeah. Well, I understand. You don't like look back to Twain and Petroleum v. Nasby, Artemis Ward. You know, 19th century figures. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely Twain, Swift. C.S. Louis's, um, Shakespeare. Well, C.S. Lewis's screw tape letters is honestly really a hilarious book if you read it. Yeah. If you read it drunk. If you read it drunk, it's very funny. Yeah, I don't think it's that funny. But.

I don't think it's that funny. No, I do. I don't think Lewis was very. funny. I think he was. I think he was extremely funny. Give me some example. What's the, what's the, what's the, what's the, no, no, no, I love Lewis. I love Lewis more than I love anybody. He's the greatest, but the first line of voyage

the Don Treter where it says there was a boy named Eustace Clarence scrub and he almost deserved it. I mean, that's hilarious, right? It's a dry country. It's a dry British comedy, right? Yeah, but I'm saying you get little bits of that here and there, but you know, you wouldn't, you wouldn't, you wouldn't say that. Chesterton would be another one. Yeah. Well, Chesterton is funnier. Yeah, but more, more overtly. funny. Looking. Right.

But when you, like, when you look at the Babylon B's satire and the way that it, you know, it's supposed to be incisive and cut towards, like, church culture and the way we sit and the way we don't live up to things, that's what screw tape letters does. Maybe it's not laugh out loud, funny in that way. But I'm just saying, I don't think of it as funny. But your satire is actually funny, funny. And I'm not knocking the screw tape letters are that kind of satire, but I'm saying your stuff is actually funny.

But the record show Metaxus does not like C.S. Lu. Not a fan Phantom Zone Nobody knows what we're talking Phantom zone Yeah So No but I think

I'm just thinking that Well You guys do stuff that's Ha ha ha funny Monty Python Does not Money Python As Christopher guest You were there at the same time

We interviewed John Cleese Right And one of the times That I mean What are the things that you said About humor now Is that it just needs to be silly Which I'm not sure

If that's a bit Yeah he said his favorite Sketch they did was when he told us was the fish slapping dance. Yeah, fish slapping dance. That's somebody told me. What did he tell you? He said the cheese shop.

Oh, he probably tells somebody something different every time. He'd know. Let the record show that Cleese is a liar. Cleese also said that he'd heard of me and I was a name to be watched, which I know is a lie. Yeah. He'd never heard of me.

But there's something there, though, about how Cleese saw comedy as an end in itself. It's just funny to have someone be slapped with fish. Yeah. Like there's something good about that, you know? And that's not how conservatives have treated art and comedy for so long. Well, that's, this is, this is, no, we're starting to get substantive as we wrap up here. That's interesting because, uh, this gets philosophical about what is, you know, what is art, right? I mean, when you ask the question, what is art? So something's beautiful. Is that an end in

itself, that it's beautiful, that the music is beautiful? Or does it lead me in a certain moral direction because it's beautiful? Do all beautiful things lead me toward God, the source of beauty? Does something funny lead me toward truth who ultimately is God. I mean, those are bigger questions. Not every comedian is thinking about them. He was just thinking about being funny. But it's almost like he knew innately. He knows innately that that's good somehow. I agree with you. I think funny, I think humor really does lead us towards rationality and truth, which leads us to God. Yeah. And so I do think it, in order for it to be truly funny, it has to be true. Right. You know, or unusual or subversive or whatever. But it does point to something, whether or not

Right, it has to subvert some truth. It has to be our, you know. Well, a lot of times people say, I mean, in, what is it, Sullivan's Travels, the film with, no, Sullivan's Travels, the film with, I guess, is it Veronica Lake or whatever? But it's about a guy who wants to, you know, make serious films or whatever. And then he, then he ends up in, like, a prison gang or a work gang or something. And then he's just like with the prisoners watching a funny movie. And he realizes there's value in this. So the film is a, I think it's a Preston Sturge's

screwball comedy, but he realizes the value in the film, he realizes the value of funny, that it has some kind of intrinsic value. And so that making a serious point is not the be all and end all. There's something to be said simply for laughing. Yeah, and Chesterton said, every true satirist is like a conservative

because they have to be pointing towards some true mark, you have to have some standard in order to subvert and satirms. because you're pointing to something true. So you guys like Chesterton. Have you ever thought of wearing capes and hamburgs and carrying walking? Yeah, and getting really fat. And weighing 300 pounds?

I've considered that. Yeah. And smoking cigars. All the time. Yeah. But so you don't normally wear capes. No, I do. I'm not talking about the Marvel Universe capes, like this kind of flimsy cap.

I'm talking about a substantive, woolen, inverness cape, such as it was worn by the great G.K. Chesterton. I've always wished those were in fashion. Well, we could bring them back. Well, the three of us, we could. Yeah, the three of us. deal like we'll wear capes yeah we'll wear cape yeah

and team form the head actually I've had two friends who were pretentious enough to be willing to wear capes and both of them love Chesterton and Lewis and stuff but I go I don't know if I draw the line at capes I draw the line at an inverness cape yeah it's it's kind of funny

it's like a Scottish cape yeah okay it's an inverness it's a type of cape Inverness it's like a Van Dyke beard yeah a Van Dyke beard How many beard names types can you? Both are bearded. I am, by the way, right now I'm growing a beard. Are you?

I can tell. But I shave it off every day. That's the thing. But my question is, how many beard types can you name? I don't know if I can name any. The Chestertonian. That's not a beard type. The Bostonian.

No, those are not. The Gimli. Colonial. You really can't name any, you're wearing. You dare. Whoa. You dare to come into my studio, bearded, and you can't name a single bearded. The Keith Urban.

I mean, you don't. have to do much to have a beard. You just don't do anything. I think you need to take responsibility for your facial hair, bro. The Emily Blunt. I take that. I take that and I receive me. I'm just thinking that the Van Dyke. That's what you're doing. The Van Dyke is a kind of a beard. There's a beard called the Imperial. Mustaches. You got your foo.

You know, there's... I like the Civil War General. The flavor saver. The Longstreet. I've never heard that. I've never heard that. You're sporting the Emily Blunt. That's funny. That's even funny. But so, and you're fans of mutton chop side whiskers? Yeah, I like that. Mutton chops?

But Chesterton... Did Chesterton have mutton chops? I don't think so. No. Did he have side whiskers? Have you thought of growing side whiskers? I have before. Well, you have side whiskers, but because you have the beard, they don't look like side whiskers.

Oh, yeah, that's true. Well, anyway, unfortunately, we're out of time. I really wanted to plumb the depths of the facial hair controversy. But we are at a time. It's so great to have you guys. God bless you. Everybody who doesn't know about the Babylon B, you have to check it out.

My goodness. Thank you. Thank you. Somewhere on the sea, I could fly like birds on high to her arms. Folks, welcome back. My guest right now, Scott Phelps, the executive director of the abstinence

and marriage education partnership. Scott Phelps, welcome. Hey, great to be back, Eric. Good to see you. What is the, I mean, for my audience, what is this in a nutshell, the organization of which your executive director? Well, it's interesting because, by the way, great job with Letter to the American Church. And I think that what you're doing there is you're calling Christians to be active and involved in the culture.

It's my story. As a pastor, I was concerned about what was happening to our kids in schools with sex education. abstinence in marriage education partnership was born out of a desire to replace sex education with quality information for young people on the benefits of marriage and family and how to prepare for it. Well, if we're going to restore a culture of marriage in America, it has to begin by getting sex education out of the classrooms and teaching kids about the benefits of waiting for marriage and why marriage matters. That's what we're all about. And it's interesting to me because the older I get, the more obvious this seems that sexuality is genuinely designed by God for marriage.

And that if your first and only sexual experiences are with your spouse, there's just something so beautiful about that because it really, it's kind of like the healthy way. We don't really have this anymore in the culture. sexuality outside marriage has been so normalized that people can't really comprehend really what God's plan is, the healthy plan, the plan to help you stay married. It's just fascinating to me how far away we've drifted since the sexual revolution in the 60s, of course. Well, and what people need to understand is that what sex education in America is today, Eric, is a codification of the sexual revolution. What the sexual revolution said was you don't have to be married, get yourself some contracept open, have sex with a whole bunch of people. It'll be fabulous.

And what is taught in American schools today is here's all the different types of contraception that you can use. And there's no reference to marriage. I was on a TV show a while back debating a sex ed lady. And I said to her this. I said, correct me if I'm wrong. I don't know of a single sex education program in America that will even give kids the option of waiting until marriage.

And she said, you're right, we don't teach that. And so not only are, and think about this, think about the sexual material that our kids are exposed to on a regular basis, on a daily basis, on their phones, on their computers, and their television screens. Not only are they exposed to increasing explicit sexual messages at an earlier and earlier age,

but think about this. How much of the sex that our kids are exposed to in the media has any messaging or imagery regarding, sex within the context of marriage relationship. So all they see growing up from their earliest years is sexual activity completely outside the context of marriage. They see the marital act without the marital part. And that's how our kids are growing up. And so what we exist to do, Eric, is to put sex in context. What we want young people to understand is not that sex is a bad thing, it's a good thing, it's a beautiful thing, within the context of a marriage relationship. We're not even

a pregnancy, I tell people this, we're not a pregnancy prevention program. We don't have any interest in preventing pregnancy. In fact, we think that preventing pregnancy is a wrongheaded approach with declines and fertility rates. We're not a pregnancy prevention program. We are a, I would say we were a pregnancy promotion program. We believe that pregnancy is good and beautiful and valuable and we think that young people need to learn. It's how most of us got here. I can't, I can't speak for you, but it's how I got here. And I want my young people to know. Yeah, I want my young people to know that pregnancy is a beautiful thing within the context of a marriage relationship. That's what we need to teach them, not don't get pregnant, but get pregnant

when you're married. They need to be taught these things well. Okay, we're going to, we're going to go to break. We'll be, we'll continue the conversation talking to Scott Phelps, executive director of the abstinence and marriage education partnership.