The Eric Metaxas Show - Becky Pippert

Episode Date: July 17, 2020

Evangelist Becky Pippert, whose previous book "Out of the Saltshaker and Into the World" inspired millions, has a sequel that may prove just as powerful, "Stay Salt," and she shares insights and inspiration with Eric.

They say it takes a big man to admit he's wrong, but I say it takes an even bigger man to admit he's never wrong. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you that bigger man, Eric Mataxis. Hey there, folks. Welcome to the Eric Mataxis show. This is the show. I'm sorry, this is it. This is all we can do. But the good news is that we have great guests on this program.

I have the privilege of sort of meeting virtually Rebecca Manley Pippert. I've always heard it put that way. Many of you know her as a result of her very, very popular book out of the salt shaker. And we have a new book out. Rebecca, it's just so wonderful to meet you. Thanks for coming on the program. Oh, thank you so much, Erica. Eric, and you can call me Becky.

That's what my friends call me. I'm sure your friends call you, Becky. Thank you for allowing me to do that. Yes. But yeah, do you go by Rebecca Manley Pippert? It sounds just so elegant. Is it just Becky Pippert these days, right? It really, I do go professionally, you know, by Becky Pippert.

And, but it is, it's a lovely name. It's just that it's all my books, but everybody. On your book. Well, listen, my audience is so diverse that there are some people that they feel that they know you and they have known you for decades. and there's some people have never met you before. So for them, your new book, they're not even going to get, they're not going to get the joke or the reference, right?

So your first book, why don't we, let's talk about the title of your first book and when it came out and how you, and if you don't find even before that, how you came to faith, your story. Oh, my. Oh, gosh, that's really, that is a story. Well, first of all, just about me personally. I wasn't raised in a Christian home. I was the first person to come to Christ.

I was an agnostic and was converted around 18, around that time, and my family did not know what to do with me because I had always been academic and had a lot of questions, and they just thought, how could you believe in this? So that may be where my passion for how do we communicate faith really came from because I had a whole family. That was going to be first. Champaign, Illinois, and where the University of Illinois is.

And though I did undergraduate work elsewhere, I then came back and did graduate work in English literature at the University of Illinois. And then interestingly, I'm jumping ahead here, but I was just starting a PhD in English thinking that I would teach English at the university when InterVarsity Christian Fellowship said, We want you to come on staff.

Go back and do your doctorate. But for right now, we want you to go on staff and we want you to work at Reed College in Portland, Oregon. Now, for those that don't know much about Reed College, U.S. News and World Report said, even today, it is the most radical, the most liberal, and the farthest from God. And it was the most wonderful place

to have an evangelism ministry with students, that were so intelligent, but so far from the kingdom. And it really, I think, prepared me for a lifelong ministry, particularly since we've just come back from living in Europe. So I did undergraduate work, did graduate work, went on staff with inner varsity, and then right after I did five years, and right after I had finished working at Reed and Willam and Whitman, I wrote a book called Out of the Salt Shaker. Now, it was a book on evangelism, but at that time, 40 years ago, evangelism was sort of seen as you

you rush in, you preach, you don't engage, you tell the truth and you leave as fast as you can. So I was saying, how are we going to be the salt of the earth if we never get out of the salt shaker? Now hang on. I wanted you to mention that because I want to make clear. A lot of people listening, they're not going to get the reference with regard to scripture about being salt and light. So touch on that. So those folks who were biblical. My dad, you know what my dad said?

My dad eventually, I've got to say this, every member of my family eventually became Christians. Took a very long time. But when my book came out, my dad was not a believer. And he saw out of the salt shaker, and he said, I didn't know you'd like to cook. He thought it was a cook book. Exactly. So tell the Lord says that he calls us to be the salt of the earth. And he calls us into the world.

And so the point of the title out of the salt shaker is how can we be the salt of the earth if we're always with each other. If we have no non-Christian friends, we've got to get out of the salt shaker and into the world. Now, that book changed my life. I went on to write 12 other books. My most recent book is, stay salt. It's my second book on evangelism. But I wrote, the book changed my life because it became, yeah, very popular. And it helped Christian see how can we have a more relational understanding

of how we share our faith and truly get involved with people. It was an incarnational way of understanding how we share our faith. I came to faith in 1988, St. Paul's, Daryan, in Connecticut. And I remember there was a video series that you did, and we watched that feature series. I got to know you on VHS tape, you know. Oh, my goodness. I guess it was 1989 at that time.

But the book came out, what, in 77 or something? I can't remember. Came out in 79, because that was the year I stopped doing staff work with InterVarsity. Yeah, it came out in 79. I can't believe it's sad. Well, of course, of course. So to be clear now, that book was called Out of the Salt Shaker, and it was about engaging people in the world with our faith.

And it's sad to think that that was a slightly revolutionary idea, but I'm grateful to you for that book. But now all these years later, you decided to write a book called Stay Salt. The world has changed. Our message has not. So the title is Stay Salt, but the subtitle, The World Has Changed, Our Message Has Not. What prompted you, you know, to go back to the Salt Chaker, so to speak,

and write this book? Okay. Here's the question. God hasn't changed. The problem hasn't changed. It's still the problem of sin. The solution hasn't changed. It's still the cross.

and knowing the Lord Jesus Christ and obviously the whole gospel. So what has changed? And particularly what's changed even in the 41 years ago that I wrote out of the salt shaker? The world has changed. The world has changed dramatically. In what ways? Well, today, for instance, we've had the collapse. Well, let me back up a minute.

What's happened is that we in the West have been living for so. long with the impact of the lethal distortions of post-modernity. For example, the collapse of any sense of absolute truth, the shift from understanding some idea of authority to personal preference, a designer religion approach, cafeteria style, where I pick my philosophy by saying, oh, I'll take a little karma here and a little something else here. And it doesn't matter that the beliefs we hold are completely contradictory because we don't believe in truth anyway. The sexual revolution are intimidation by a secular media,

by academia, cultural elites that are very hostile to the Christian faith. So all of these are things that we need to contend with. And so I wrote the book to say, okay, how do we see? speak in for such a time as this. And what I always hear is, why should I even bother to share my faith when the world has changed so dramatic? Well, yeah, that's the question. We're going to go to a break, but I just want to say again, Becky, how wonderful finally to meet you, albeit in this digital fashion, this online fashion, but close enough. We have a music. We have a mutual friend in Oz Guinness, who's spoken warmly of you over the years.

We're going to be right back to continue our conversation. Folks, don't go away. Folks, welcome back. I'm talking to Becky Pippert. You heard me. Becky Pippert. She has a new book out. A lot of people listening know the old book, the book, out of the salt shaker.

The new book is called Stay Salt. The world has changed. Our message has not. Now, Becky, a lot of people just think things are so insane. Why bother sharing my faith? Do people want to hear it? What do you say? Yes.

First of all, why bother? Well, number one, it's because Jesus commands us to. When the risen Lord, just before he was going to happen, what was it that he said? And pay attention because when Jesus calls us in the Great Commission, go ye therefore, you know, and make disciples of all the nations, what did you? Jesus not say. He didn't say, go ye there for, all you extroverts, all you evangelists, oh, okay, professional clergy, all right, maybe some Baptists, go he there for it. But the rest of you, just hang out, sing some hymns, I'll be back before you know it. That is not what the Lord said.

He didn't tie it to gifts, and what do I always hear? Oh, well, I don't have the gift. He He didn't tie it to gifts. He didn't tie it to personality. He said that we are all to go and share the good news of Jesus Christ. Now, how we do that, of course, is another issue that we'll talk about. But I want to also ask why did he command this? And it's because God loves the world. He loves us. He loves sinners. He loves saints. He loves the lost. He loves the lost. He loves us so much that he sent the world. He loves us so much. He sent the world. most precious thing he had, the Lord Jesus, to come. So if God loved us this much, we must love this much and go into the world and share the good news. But there's another side to this. And that is, Eric, if I have seen anything, and I've been in the most secular cultures, the most secularized cultures in the world, live there. And what I've seen again and again is secularism, does not have the power or the answers to address human longings. God has placed in all of us the longing for meaning and identity and purpose, and it's there.

And we've got to keep that in mind. Secularism cannot address this. And let me tell you something. I saw this openness spiritually over and over again in the seven, years we lived in the UK and then also ministered on the continent. And not only were we living in the most secular place on the planet, we were ministering at the universities. And I was speaking to universities.

And do you know what I began to realize? We were, I was beginning to see the backside of secularism. They have been secular for so long, far longer than we have. and there was an openness and a hunger. Now, you have to approach people properly. You can't barge in and start preaching. We have to do it in Jesus way, which we'll look at. But there was an openness and an openness to spiritual dialogue.

When I came back to the States and we had traveled around the world and then we did those seven years in the UK and Europe, and I felt increasingly, I felt that I had. identified so much with Leslie Newbigin, who was the missionary from England, who went to India, and then he came back after all those years in the 50s. And he was shocked at how secularized Europe had become, UK had become. And he saw two things that what secularism had done is not only made it challenging for how do we communicate the gospel to the world, but he also saw how do we communicate the gospel to the church. The church had been so

much more impacted by secularism than they knew. That's exactly what my husband Dick and I felt when we came back to the States two years ago, was secularism had so dramatically increased, but the church needed as much help as the world did. So that is the beginning of why we go and share the good news. Well, it's interesting because what you say, I've noticed that myself. In other words, it seems to me that the church itself, many churches, let's say, have become very confused and fuzzy, and they're not themselves clear on what's in and what's out and what's right and what's wrong. They've been persuaded somehow that it's not a good idea to be too clear on that. We don't want to offend people.

And of course, it's good to not want to offend people, but you can go too far. Exactly. on much too far. And there's a longing that people have, I guess I call it the tang of otherness. You know, you find people in prisons who become Muslim converts, and they like the rigor of it. It's all encompassing. Sometimes we Christians have made it too easy and said, well, you don't have to really change anything. Just pray this prayer.

And in a sense, if that's all you do, you don't really get much. Yeah, that is also true. You know, I think one of the reasons why the reluctance that we have for evangelism, one is I think some Christians have this sort of older view of evangelism. And I was sort of, you know, that was when I wrote out of the salt shaker. And it was like, I'm going to memorize this outline and then pick some poor victim and go and preach and leave. When you look at Jesus, he never said the same thing twice. The way he talked to people, it was who they were.

He listened. He asked questions. Again, we'll get to that in a little bit. But Jesus didn't have three set questions. He always asked. What I find, though, today, some Christians still do that. But what I find is there is a redefining of evangelism that simply isn't biblical. Here's what I hear all the time in the States.

our task is to demonstrate the gospel, not tell the gospel. And what I hear, now, of course we're supposed to demonstrate the gospel, but what I hear endlessly quoted is Francis of Assisi, preach the gospel, and if necessary, use words. And first of all, there's no historical evidence that Assisi ever said it. And if he did say it, he was wrong. because that is not what biblical evangelism is. Biblical evangelism is who we are. Emerson's, you know, the poet said,

who you are, shout so loud, I cannot hear what you say. In other words, we have to demonstrate the beauty, the love, the power of Jesus. It's who we are. Secondly, it is what we do. And that is where justice comes in. Justice is a part of our witness,

that we care for the poor, that we care for the needy. That's an important part. But probably the strongest model of evangelism in the Gospels and in Acts and the epistles is the verbal. And that is where we're so terribly weak. We don't know. And it's where we've got to help Christians today.

How do we communicate the gospel for such a time as this? Well, you talk about, again, the title of the book is Stay Salt, the world has changed our message has not. When you say the world has changed, I mean, it's changed particularly dramatically, particularly recently. Does that come into your thinking at all, or can we use that as a leaping on point? Yeah, listen, let's just take COVID. This is in a fact, what happens in catastrophe? This is a global catastrophe.

is there anything positive possibly that can come for something that really is truly terrible and that is just and we've got a lot more that's been happening since COVID here's the interesting thing about disaster and that is when something like a COVID when when catastrophe comes what does it do it enables us to see reality much more clearly now that's almost always painful, but it's good. It's a good thing. The fog begins to lift, and suddenly we see we're not in charge like we thought we were. In fact, I do so many, you know, Zoom interviews and stuff around the world, and what I'm hearing everywhere, Eric, is Christians saying, I'm having more spiritual conversations right now with my non-Christian friends or whatever

means they can do. And one of my agnostic friends called me really recently, and she goes, Becky, I have always thought that I am, we are the God and master of the universe. But she said, when a simple microscopic organism can bring our entire planet to a halt, it shows how terribly vulnerable we are. And she said, you know what I've seen, Becky? What I've seen is if I am God, we're in real trouble. Because what kind of God needs to take medicine for anxiety?

I thought that was a great life. That's very funny. Truth is a lot. But she said, truth be told, I make a lousy God. And I said, oh, Sue, so do I. That's the beginning of wisdom. That's the beginning of wisdom. We're going to be right back, folks.

I'm talking to Becky Pippert. The new book is called Stay Salt. Stay Salt. The world has changed our messages now. We'll be right back. The big screen that showed us a sun, but not as bright in life of the re. President Trump has a huge announcement for his top supporters. We'll be celebrating the 2020 Republican National Convention this summer,

and he wants you to enter for your chance to join him at the convention. If you win, the team will cover the flight, hotel, and give you VIP passes for yourself. And a guest, all you have to do is text metaxus to 8802. today for your chance to meet President Trump at the convention. Again, that's M-E-T-A-X-A-S to 880-22 to enter to win this once-in-lifetime opportunity via special guest paid for by Donald J. Trump for president. Folks, welcome back. I'm talking to Becky Pippert, and you get to listen in.

Hey, I think it's a pretty good deal. Becky, you're talking about connecting with people and sharing our faith with people. And I always say that, you know, we live in a culture that says, like, don't share your faith. or, you know, and I think, are you crazy? Like, the greatest thing that ever happened to me was that I discovered Jesus is real, the Bible is true, God loves me as a purpose for my life. How am I not going to share that with people that are hungry? Some of them are very hungry. Everybody's hungry, even the ones who say they're not, how do I not share it? But how do we share? I think most people have the question, how do we share it? So what is your...

It's so true. Well, what impacted me so. much was going to the Gospels and looking at Jesus. And what I saw in the way that he did it, one was prayer. We need to just pray, even if you're speaking to somebody, just zip up a silent, real quick prayer. Come, Holy Spirit, come. Now, help me. Jesus is a part of that conversation. And that can change a lot. Just your conscious recognition of the presence of Jesus with you. Then what did I see in Jesus? He had compassion. He had respect.

He really listened. He asked tremendous questions, questions that roused their curiosity. He never treated anybody like an evangelistic project. He wasn't in a hurry to move on to the next convert. He didn't have formulas. He didn't have three sets of questions. But when you begin to look at how, Oh, Jesus did it.

It really freed me. I was having a conversation on a plane with a woman. I was actually working on a talk, and oh, she was very chatty. And I realized, right, okay, she really wants to talk. So I pray and ask the Lord, be a part of this conversation. And so one of the things you need to do when you're talking to somebody, you don't leap in with the gospel. You need to ask questions.

You need to find out who they are. You need to find common ground. And one of the things that's important about common ground is when they realize you're a Christian, they can't put you in a box because you've already connected. So, for instance, as what we found we had common ground is we both were world travelers and, you know, we'd been all over the world many times. And we talked about that. And then she began talking about her beliefs. And she said, you know, Becky, I really believe in the essential good. of all people. Now, I could have said, are you kidding? Have you read human history? But that's not

what you do. You ask questions. And I said, because actually, there's two aspects to human nature biblically that were sinners, but we're also made in the image of God. So I said, well, okay, so you believe in the essential goodness of all people. Can you tell me, what do you think about the state of the world? She said, oh, it's a mess. She said, it's an absolute. mess. I said, well, okay, so try to help me understand this. How can we be only good if the world's a mess? She said, that's a very good question. She said, let me think about it. And she came back, now I happened to find this analysis quite American. I wouldn't find this because we're so psychologically in America. But she goes, I think we've got two problems. I think one problem

is addiction and we need recovery. The other problem is, We're psychologically wounded and we need therapy. Don't you agree? Now, we need to agree where we can. And I said to her, yes, I think those are real problems. And I agree there have been some real solutions. Or these solutions have helped. But I'm just wondering, what if you live in recovery from your addiction?

And then you find your problem is deeper still. What if the ultimate problem is we're addicted to ourselves? What if we have a heart problem? Now, what am I saying here? What I'm using her language, I'm arguing on her turf, but now I'm bringing in the issue of sin. I just haven't called it sending it. And she goes, well, I think you're right. I'm addicted to myself, and it's exhausting.

But Becky, I think we do have a heart problem, but we're in the world. world are we going to go for rehab of the heart? Who has that kind of power? I said, well, I can't think. How then shall we be saved, Becky? Will you tell me? That's actually amazing. What a question she asked you. That's the ultimate. You go for rehab of the heart. That's the postmodern way of saying. How could we be saved? And I said to her, look, I can't think of anything but God. And I was an agnostic. And it was really, ultimately, I came to faith in Christ because of that very issue. But I said, that's a long story. I said that on purpose because I wanted to know if she wanted to go. And she goes, no, I want to hear your story. And then we began talking about

the gospel. So pray, find common ground, ask questions, use their language, argue on their turf. Don't use God talk initially. You will be surprised at how quickly you are able. when you're authentic and real and listening, people really are hungry. And when we got off the plane, she turned to me and said, I want to ask you something, would you be willing to have an email,

spiritual conversation with me? I said, I love it. And we're dialoguing now. And I've said her actually, I sent her a book I wrote that was more apologetic, so has its reasons. And we're talking about it now.

I love it. I absolutely love it. I want to remind people, you have a brand new book out called Stay Salt. The world has changed. Our message has not. And is there a website, Becky, if people want to find you? Right. You can go to my website, all lowercase, Becky, Pippert, P-I-P-P-E-R-T, dot org. And then look at resources and you can find that book and other books. I'll be right back with Becky Pippert. Leave us less too far.

We wonder. Love sweet voices call. Folks, I'm talking to Becky Pippert, so I better shut up quick. Becky, I just got to ask you a question, and then I'll shut up. What are the main stumbling blocks that people have? Because people often come up with the same kinds of objections to the faith that we share. What do you say? Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, that is so, so true. You know, one of the things that I probably. here more than anywhere else, and I mean everywhere in the world, is we'll do the training, we do the, you know, the evangelism, training and equipping, and then inevitably, somebody says, Becky, I really want to show my face. I really do, but I can't. I just can't do it. And I go, why? And they said, because I'm inadequate. And I go, of course you're inadequate. I'm inadequate. We're the creatures. We're not the creator. Why did Jesus so confidently tell us to go into the world,

knowing that most of us weren't gifted as evangelist? Because he knew the power of the Holy Spirit. He was going to send the Holy Spirit to dwell within us. He gave us the truth of the power of the gospel. He gave us the love of the person of Jesus. In other words, we've got to recognize, in fact, I'd say it even more strongly, celebrate our smallness, celebrate our inadequacy, and learn to lean on the supernatural power of God. And where did we see this? When the apostle Paul got really fed up with his thorns in the flesh, he didn't like being weak.

I don't blame him. And so we praise to the Lord, who's now risen in heaven, take it away. And what did Jesus say? He said, my grace is sufficient for you. For my power is made perfect in your weakness. We don't believe that. We think we've got to go in, be able to answer every question.

We have to be the sort of bionic Bible person, you know, that can answer. Listen, I mean, you're talking to me from Holland, Michigan, okay? That's the Dutch Reformed Capital of the Universe. And I was going to say that there is a strand of Christian who they really do feel like it's all cerebral. it's almost like their enlightenment rationalists and they forget about the power of the Holy Spirit and the reality of God and they don't like it. They push him away

and they think it's all syllogisms and I can kind of prove it to you. What you're saying and what I always say is just the opposite of that. I mean, that might be true but if you're leaning on that, not everybody's equipped to do that, but we are equipped to believe

that the Holy Spirit can speak through me and my inadequacies, whoever I am. It's so freeing. And what did Paul say? When the Lord said that to him, Paul goes, well, all right then, I'm going to boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses so that Christ's power may rest upon me. Eric, it is so important to understand this. In fact, the first section of Stay Soul of my new book is all about the means. How can we learn to lean on the power of God?

and quit complaining that we're inadequate. I really believe recognizing our inadequacy is the first qualification to being used by God. Now, that's the first thing I always hear. Second thing I always hear is I don't know enough. I don't know the gospel well enough. I don't know how to defend it. And in fact, the second section of the book, the first section is on the means. The second section is on the message.

what is it? What do we really believe about the gospel? How do we defend it? And, you know, what kind of pushback are we going to get? And then thirdly, how do we help unbelievers see that the gospel is so beautiful and it really does meet their deepest longings? That is a second piece. The third piece, then, is I'm just not confident. I'm afraid. About confidence. One of the things I've always always saying the Christian says, they go, I need self-confidence. I go, no, you don't. You need God confidence. Forget about self-confidence. We need God confidence. But what are their fears? Okay, I always hear. I don't know. What if they ask me a question I can't answer. Now, I've done a lot of work with our beloved Robbie Zacharias who's with the Lord. Now, I saw the interview that you posted.

And Ravi wrote the forward to my book. And when he wrote it, we never dreamed it a million years, but he would be in heaven by the time the book came out. But I've learned a lot from Ravi, and I've worked a lot with RZIM and Oka in Oxford on. It is important to learn what we can about answering common questions. But listen, you're always going to be asked a question you can't answer. So here's what I say.

That is a fantastic question. I haven't a clue what the answer is. I can't wait to find out. I'm so glad God brought you into my life to help me learn and grow. Listen, non-Christians aren't expecting me to be able to answer every single question. They want to know if you're real. They want to know if you care about them. And they do want you to be able to communicate what it is you believe.

Another thing I hear all the time is, well, what if I offend? Now, that's a very good thing to be concerned about because we need to know if we are being unnecessarily offensive. But here's the thing I find fascinating. And that is it never occurs to us to ask. Why don't we say, you know something? I am so excited about my faith. But if I'm coming on too strong, I don't like Bible bashers. And if you think I'm coming on like a Bible basher, would you let me know?

And what do they say? to themselves, you're normal. I thought you were one of those. It's amazing. How would we just relax and enjoy people and get engaged in spiritual conversations and care and pray? We make evangelism so much harder than it really is.

Well, that's so well put. I guess, you know, it's a funny thing. You really haven't changed a bit, Becky, since those old videotapes that I watched, because you have an enthusiasm. I think that a lot of people probably see someone like you, and they think like, gosh, I wish I could be like Becky Pippert because it's so natural to her to think of these things on the plane and so on and so forth. And I know that you go out of your way to put people at ease and say,

don't think that way. It's so true because God uses us just the way we are. If you went out and tried to be me, it would be a disaster. God, you will reach people that I couldn't. What we've got to realize is that God really is with us. His power is with us. He wants to speak through us. So ask God, who are the people in my life that you are reaching out to

and help me as I go and listen, share the good news of Jesus? Let's hit pause there. We've got a final segment coming up. Folks, you won't go away. I know you won't. So I'm not even going to ask you not to. We'll be right back. Becky Pippert, or Rebecca Manley Pippert,

depending on what part of the pond you're standing on. I got to tell you, Becky, there are people I know, people of faith, who they never want to hang out with non-Christians. They plum don't like them. You get that feeling, which is exactly the opposite of Jesus. But have you ever met people like that? Oh, my goodness. You know, that reminds me of something.

I was doing an evangelism training conference in the deep south, and I love the South for all kinds of reasons. And so in a break, more of an elderly woman came up to me, and she said, Becky, I am so convicted. When you show these stories of the way Jesus loved the lost and the way that he didn't come in and judge, but he didn't avoid sin, he didn't avoid the topic, but he loved them.

I am so convicted and I've decided to do two things. I am really going to try and find common ground, like you said, what we have in common. And then you also said, affirm the good that you see. Two days later, I ran into her after the conference and she goes, you cannot imagine what happened to me. She said, now remember, this is an more elderly woman. I'm on a bus. And a guy gets on the bus. He has a mohawk hair style.

He has tattoos over his entire body. And he comes and he sits down right next to me. And she said, using her southern drawl, she said, I looked at him and I said to myself, I bet that boy's on drugs. And then she went, now what did Becky say? No, find common ground. Look for the good. So she looks at him and goes, find common ground.

That is not happening. She goes, okay, affirm the good. And she went, oh, help me, Jesus. How do I affirm the good? And then she said, I had it. And I turned to him and I said, son, I just want to congratulate you because I just noticed all your tattoos are spelled correctly. Praise God. It's the beginning.

It's the beginning. Eric, if I. Yeah, yeah, that's hilarious. Isn't that funny? But bless her heart, you know. if I was going to say three things I've learned over all the years I've been doing this. The first is evangelism is easier than we imagined when you follow the way of Jesus. Don't worry that you don't have the gift.

You've got the Holy Spirit and God will use you just the way you are. And non-believers, he is seeking them. Evangelism is easier than you think. Secondly, I've learned evangelism is harder than I ever imagined. Why? It isn't just because of a culture. It's because we have an enemy. And the enemy is going to try and terrify you and keep that hardened hard if you're non-Christian friends hard. We have a power that's so much greater. So pray, get on your knees. Rebuk the enemy in the name of Jesus. Do not let him intimidate you.

And thirdly, we have a God who loves the lost and he goes before us and he wants to use us as we are. Trust him. One of the most exciting things of the world is seeing our friends come to Christ. God will use you. There is no doubt about that. I'll close real quick. Do you remember, I don't know if you ever, did you ever know Lee Buck? He was a lay evangelist. Didn't meet him, but heard him. Okay. Well, I got to meet him and right when I came to faith, and he told the most pathetic, beautiful story I ever heard. He said that he was sitting on a plane in 1978. Who gets out of the plane sits next to him, Margaret Meade. Oh my gosh.

The woman who, you know, one of the architects of the decline of the West, okay? She sits next to him and starts making tea for herself. And he knew he had to share his faith with her. And he says, my wife loves tea. That was his opening line. Couldn't be more pathetic. Bottom line, she was dying of cancer, didn't tell him. Six months later, someone came to St. Paul's Dary Inn to find him to say,

that Margaret Mead had accepted Jesus. Almost nobody knows that story, but it started out with that lame, what do we have in common, a cup of tea? We are out of time. Becky, God bless you. Wonderful. The book is stay solved.

The world has changed. Our message has not. Thanks for tuning in, folks.