The Eric Metaxas Show - Brad Zockoll

Episode Date: June 4, 2025

After the loss of his brother, Dr. Brad Zockoll embarked on a learning quest on the promises of Heaven. Learn more about "The Heaven Guy" at https://theheaventour.com/

Noble gold investments is the official gold sponsor of the Eric Mataxis show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you can protect your wealth with noble gold investments. That's noble gold investments.com. Did you ever hear the expression, if life gives you lemons, make lemonade? Well, when Eric Mataxis was little, he had his own lemonade stand, and he sold so much lemonade, he became rich beyond his wildest. streams. Now he's able to do whatever he wants, and he's now the host of a big time radio show. Welcome the guy who's oh so lemony sweet, Eric Mat, Texas. Hey there, folks. Welcome to Monday the 2nd of June. Chris Heims, welcome to Monday the 2nd of June.

Thank you. Happy Monday. Okay. Now, you're preparing. You're getting your bags packed. Yes, that's exactly. I was just going to say that. Today is the day that I fly, quite literally, ladies and gentlemen, fly not of my own accord. Their jet engines involved, a lot of technology that I don't know that much about. Nonetheless, I and a lot of people will be flying across the ocean about seven miles above the surface of the ocean so nobody gets wet. And I will be landing tomorrow in Athens, Greece. By the grace of God, I am tonight flying to Athens, Greece, Suzanne, and someone who I believe identifies as our daughter will be joining us. And we are meeting many, many friends. Some of you will be there. And I'm excited about this.

If you couldn't make it this year, let me just say, I'm never doing this again. so tough luck. Actually, you know what? I just thought when I said that I thought, no, that's mean. Let me change my opinion. I will do this again. You know what? I've just made a decision. I'm going to do it again. I don't know that we'll go to Greece. I don't know where we're going to go. But I'm looking forward to it. We're going to we're going to be landing, as I said, in Athens. We have a few days in Athens. We're doing a Socrates in the city in Athens on June 5th. Holy cow. That's this week. I don't really believe it. That's crazy. That's like, you know, they use the word OG, which stands for original gangster,

which is slang for, you know, the first person who was there when it all went down. And I feel like Athens is the Socrates. It is the city. It's the Socrates city, right? Am I getting it right? There's no doubt about it. Socrates grew up in Athens. Most people who know he served in the Athenian army.

You don't think of Socrates as serving in the army. and it's kind of a fascinating story. But anyway, the point is, we're going to the birthplace of democracy. We're going to Athens. We're going to be there. I'm going to be speaking at Mars Hill. Yeah, I'm going to be speaking.

I want to add to some of the stuff that Paul set up there because he didn't know a lot of the stuff that we now know. So I'm going to be adding to the Pauline Cannon. Not really. Well, listen. So then we leave by boat at the end of the week. I have to look at the schedule here. This is amazing.

Yeah. So this Friday, crazyly enough, we get on the boat and we travel the Mediterranean. We're going to Crete. We're going to Volos. We're going to Santorini. We're going to Mekonos. We're going to roads. We're going to Istanbul.

We're going to Ephesus. We're going to all these places. I will be doing updates on Instagram. On this program, we're going to be airing encores of some of the best of the best, like really great stuff all week long. So you won't get my news updates or anything like that. But if you want to see what I'm doing while I'm doing it in Greece, you got to follow me on Instagram.

John Zemirak will be with me, Victoria Jackson, Albin, and other friends. So I'm going to try to do as many updates as I can, and I'll post them on Instagram. So if you follow me on Instagram, you'll see what I'm doing. If you are subscribed to the newsletter, Ericmetaxis.com, many of you are subscribed. Of course, it's free. So I don't know why you wouldn't be. Go to Ericmetaxis.com and just sign up. But the Ericmetaxis.com newsletter, I will be sharing photographs.

and so on and so forth. So I'll share some of that stuff on Instagram, but if you absolutely can't follow me on Instagram, go to acetacist.com and you'll see it there. I just think it'll be fun. Maybe Albin and I will make an Instagram video while we're on the go-carts on the top of the ship. And then again, maybe we won't.

So we'll have to see about that. I think you should do a video where you're at the soft-serve machine, as most people know on the cruise ships, maybe some of you don't, but it's bottomless soft serve machine. So I think you should see how much soft serve Albin can eat in one go. You know, he could just put his mouth down there

and you could film that. That's why typically I would say, like, I don't want to go on a cruise because, like, I'm afraid of how much food. It's just, it's, and by the way, I haven't mentioned it on the air, but this is a booze cruise. We're all going to get blasted.

We're getting hammered. Oh, we're going to get really. hammered. No, it's so funny. It's so ridiculous. Anyway, look, it's going to be fun. I'm going to be making Instagram videos. Follow me on Instagram. And I think, I guess I don't want to forget this. So I'm not going to be doing radio. It's possible that I'll do a little radio from the ship, but I'm probably not going to be. So I'm going to, I'm going dark as far as the radio goes. And Chris, as the producer of this program, I've said it before, and I know Chris doesn't mind. Chris is going to be using this time because it's been tough to kind of get it into the schedule

to have breast reduction surgery, which is covered by our insurance. Thank you, Salem. But Chris, this is something you've wanted to do for a long time. And you're doing it for you, okay? This is not about what anybody thinks of you. You're doing it for you. You want to be the best you that you can be. this has been difficult all these years. I know you've had back issues and it's about time.

And we're just saying this is it. This is God's timing for you. Yeah, thank you so much. And fortunately, as you mentioned, yeah, Salem is covering it. It wasn't covered initially. So I had to go before the HR folks with the PowerPoint presentation to make my case. And I gave them different options for costs. And they went with the cheapest costs, which are some surgeons at a remote farmhouse in Guatemala are going to be performing it. But I, I, I, The fact is Salem is covering it, and we had to make it. It was tough talking to Santrella, all the brass at Salem to convince them. Right.

That in the end, that the curvature of the spine, all these issues would cost more in the long run. So this was the time for you to have this surgery. And you know what, Chris, I'll say it again. You're doing it for you. Yes. It's not about what anybody thinks of you. New Year, knew me. So I'm looking forward to it.

All right. We wanted, before we go to Athens, we wanted to just make sure that our audience is aware of what idiots we really. are. And so today we're coming clean on all this different stuff. I have to say that the hilarity never stops, folks. And so by the way, I mentioned that I'm putting out these videos on Instagram. Here's another announcement. I don't want to forget. June 22nd, obviously I'll be back, I guess, on the 16th. June 22nd, I'm preaching at King's Church in New York City. If you or anybody can get to King's Church, New York City, I'm preaching at King's Church on June 22nd. And on the evening of June 22nd, I'll be up in Connecticut with our friend Ken Fish.

Ken Fish is ministering at his vineyard church in Bethel, Connecticut. If you know anybody who can get there, I'm going to drag all my friends. It's amazing to see God move in healing and deliverance. And, you know, if there's anybody out there who has theological problems with that, let me just say for sure you're wrong. So I'm sorry to be the bearer of good news, but there is healing and deliverance for today. Are there frauds? Yeah, yeah, they're frauds and there are people who preach from pulpits and they're liars,

but that doesn't mean that preaching should not be happening today. So that's exciting. Now, today, I'm not sure. as I'm yamering here, what it is that we are airing. Chris, what are we airing in a minute? Well, we have Brad Zockel. Oh, my gosh. I didn't mention it. Today's Miracle Monday. Brad Zockel coming up, Miracle Monday. Oh, folks, I can't believe I'd mention it. Today, obviously, is Monday. Miracle Monday. Amazing story. And by the way, next Monday, probably even more amazing Miracle Monday story. And then the following Monday, another one.

Really, really important. Miracles are happening today. I wrote a book about it called Miracles. I've experienced them. There's nothing more wonderful. So, all right. Well, God bless you. This is important that we know that miracles are for today.

So stick around. We're coming up with Brad Zockel. Here we go. There's been a national focus on eating only the healthiest of foods, and that's great news for balance of nature. Their method of producing a vibrant nutritional supplement is second to none. While so many others use chemicals and additives, balance of nature is made solely from whole food ingredients, while other methods sacrifice nutritional quality for the sake of

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Ladies and gentlemen, I believe it is Miracle Monday, whatever day it is. We're going to be talking about the miraculous today, about supernatural things. Ooh, exciting. I'm always excited about this because I know this stuff is real, but I know there are a lot of people who don't know that it's real or they're skeptical or whatever. And I think it's important to address these things intelligently or non-intelligently, whichever is easier. So today I'm excited. I have a guest. His name is Brad Sokol, I believe, or Zockel.

The most important thing and the most difficult thing is pronouncing names correctly. So before we get into the subject, which we're going to be talking about heaven, ladies and gentlemen, heaven. Have you heard of it? It's real. First of all, Brad, welcome to this program. and how do you pronounce your last name? Zockel, just like a whole of the sock. Zockel.

Zockel. What kind of a name is Zockel? I love... Oh, it takes you back to German. It's got a Germanic background here. I don't know what the meaning is, but I'm being told that we have a deep Germanic meaning there. Germanic meaning, all right.

Well, listen, you come very highly recommended through some very dear friends, through a dear brother in Christ. I know you've written a book called What is Heaven all about? You have a YouTube channel about heaven. This is an eternally, no pun intended, fascinating subject. And so I'm always interested in talking to people about it.

And my first question to you is, how did you come to kind of major on the subject of heaven? I know that you're a Bible teacher, you've been in ministry, but what was it in your life that led you specifically to focus on the subject of heaven? Well, Eric, about 14 years ago, I come from a family of 12, and everybody, even my parents who were still surviving, and I came home from teaching one afternoon, and my next oldest brother had called me and told me,

He was very agitated, and I couldn't figure out exactly what was going on. But my oldest brother, Bruce, was about to start work down in Florida and had a massive stroke and then passed away. And this was stunning. Now, I've taught sociology, I've taught grief counseling, I've taught about heaven. But upon going down to Florida, and I had to actually give the eulogy for him, I was the preacher for the message at his funeral. He was a believer in Christ, and he was in heaven. But I sat down at his home and his wife, the widow, Sharon, allowed me to sit there. And I had stuffed a whole bunch of books on heaven and the afterlife in my satchel.

I sat there, did not get up for like four hours, went through every book that I could, and I was highly dissatisfied. Maybe someone would write a book, and it's one verse and 15 pages of speculation. or dreams or NDE's. I wanted to know what did the Bible say? What is Bruce doing right now? Is he walking with Jesus? Is he taller? Is he happier?

Everything. And that's what started 14 years ago, which eventually led to this ministry. And so after I was studying and sharing with my students, both at the university and on the college prep academy, churches started asking me, hey, could you come over and talk with us about this? And so that's really where it started in earnest about 14 years ago.

Wow. you're young enough for me to think that 14 years ago to have a brother die, it was a shock. This is not somebody who was old. So, of course, that, I mean, although that is true, even my dad passed this last over a year ago, but he was 96.5. And it doesn't change the fact that if you love someone, the idea that they're not around here anymore is very tough. and there's great comfort in thinking that they're in heaven with Jesus. But of course, most people want to know, what does that mean? And I actually, the reason I'm fascinated by this and fascinated by talking to you or in wanting

to talk to you is because there's so many questions, not just about what is heaven like, but how can we know anything? How can we talk about it? I mean, even when I say, you just said, well, my brother is doing this now or And you think, well, yes and no, because we are in time. Heaven, eternity is outside of time. So it's not a long time. It is outside of time.

That is unfathomable to those of us who are inside of time. And I think we have to start there and we have to say on one level, heaven is unfathomable to us. It would be trying to get a dog to understand time or a clock. You see that clock, you see that calendar. A dog cannot do it. Neither can we who are inside time and space really understand the realm outside of time and space. It's impossible for us. It's like somebody who sees in black and white to imagine color.

You can approximate it. So I'm fascinated by this for many reasons, and I'm fascinated what you have to say. So let me stop talking and ask you, what did you find? Well, your first assertion is absolutely correct. What I started finding out, well, for example, 1 Corinthians 2.9 says, I has not seen nor ear heard, neither has it entered into the imagination of man, the things that God has prepared for those who love him. Verse 10 does say that the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, will give bits here and there. I like to call it handfuls of heaven. We get hints, but you are correct.

The first thing is, it's beyond our ken. it's beyond our scope. We're talking about 2 Peter chapter 3 in verse 8 says, never confuse earthly time with heavenly time. A day is as 1,000 years, a thousand years is as a day. Psalm 90, the Lord, Lord, in your presence, a thousand years, this is the passing of an afternoon, a watch in the night. Isaiah 5715 says he inhabits eternity.

So you're absolutely right. We must get away from our three-dimensional grasp of things. And open up, like I tell people, you have a great illustration. It's like taking a toddler and putting them in as a CEO of Mercedes-Benz in and saying, take charge, whatever you can grasp. You know, it's so beyond us. You know, we had a U.S. president like that, not so long ago, but I know what you mean.

Please continue. When we take a look at all of these things, I tell people as I travel around the country, is we must open up. Would it be fair to say that God has at least one other dimension other than the shoebox of the three dimensions these put us in well for you know the dimension of time well of course and so we're automatically talking about stepping onto a realm of which we don't even know what the description is which takes you back to first corinthians chapter two and verse nine i mean we're talking about eric we're talking about revelation chapter 21 at verse four we're going to have an

incorruptible body we're never going to hurt there's no acrimonious relationships between people we're never going to die matter of fact hebrew says we won't even worry about dying Hebrews chapter two talks about the fear that's been taken away. All the tears will be taken away. And here's the big one. Revelation 21-3, God will now walk with us, just like the first two chapters of the Bible. The last two chapters, this book ended here,

God will dwell with us, abide with us. We will be His children. He will be our God. We are going to be one-on-one walking on the new earth with him. Revelation 21 and 22 are absolutely stunning. in the reality of the promises to the believer. And remember, Titus 1-2, God cannot lie. Hebrews 618, it's impossible for him to lie.

So when we see this, we see these. I just want to interrupt for my, you know, for the sake of my audience for clarity, right? Folks, if this sounds difficult, it is. In other words, it is what you just said, Brad. I don't disagree with the word of it because it comes out of the, scripture. We know the scripture is true. Okay, we know that. But even things like there will be no worry, there will be no, all that. It is utterly incomprehensible to us. I cannot imagine. It's like saying, okay, you know the way you are. Okay, imagine you're not that way. You can.

Yeah. It's just, it's insane. So the idea that we are going to live in a realm that is heavenly. It's glorious. It's wonderful. I think we, have to start there and say, ladies and gentlemen, basically it's incomprehensible. You know it's good, but from this perspective, it's still scary because it's so different than anything we can comprehend. I just, I mean, I guess I just, I always want to start there for people that are skeptical or that have difficulties with understanding faith or whatever that. We have to be honest and say, we know what the Bible says is true. We know. God is good. We know we can trust him 1,000 percent. But anybody who has easy answers and say,

well, it's going to be like this and you're going to be doing this and we get, you know, we get glimpses. But I think the main thing that has to be said, and by the way, we've got, I want to hear a lot from you. We've got plenty time today, Brad. But I just want to say to my audience that I think we have to start there. We know what the Bible says is true, but we know that even the Bible is talking about things that are incomprehensible. So it's saying stuff and the words are there, but, you know, just because it's the Bible doesn't mean that it can communicate things that are incomprehensible to those of us who are locked into time and space. So it's giving us glimpses. And so ultimately, we just have to trust God. But we can know a lot. And we can know a lot.

And that's why I wanted to have Brad on today. So when we come back, we're going to get into more specifics. Very exciting. The book is What Is Heaven All About? There are other books. What is Heaven all about? We'll be right back. Folks, welcome back talking to Brad Zockel.

Brad, am I pronouncing that correctly? It's pathetic that I've asked you twice. It's Zockel. You're fine. Zocle. Just call me Brad. Just call me Brad. Like sock.

Like a hole in a sock. Yes, sir. Zockel. Okay. So do you have. I mean, there are people who have visited heaven, I believe, and tell those stories. The problem, of course, is you then have to weigh is what they're saying consonant with the scripture.

There are a lot of people that are very, very wary of listening to anything. They just go, whatever the scripture says, that's it, that's it. I would say everything has to be in accordance with the scripture, but it is. possible that people can have experiences that can, in a sense, give us glimpses. But it is tricky. It is tricky. So anyway, what do you, what is your experience with that? Well, I would say on an average, once a week, I will have somebody calling.

They've had a dream. They've had an NDE, a near-death experience, something like that. And here's the problem that I encounter because it comes to my personal mailbox in our ministry. this person gives a description which directly contradicts this person. So we look in 2 Peter chapter 1 in verse 20 and says no prophecy is of private interpretation. So what I do is I avoid those. As a matter of fact, like when I was going to speak up in the Pittsburgh area, very early when I was traveling, they said, please promise us you're not going to talk about dreams or visions or NDE's. Just give us the scripture.

And I said, oh, you have my heart. So you think about it. When we're talking about all these things, I will tell people during our live streams, they will say, what do you think, Brad? What is your opinion? I said, I don't go there. I have told our moderators, I will not give an opinion. If you're asking me, what does the Bible say?

And if the Bible doesn't say it, I will tell you. It's silent or the famous three words, I don't know. I mean, there's no shame. But what I can tell them is, let's start with the building blocks to the first steps of the Appalachian Trail. You can't have the whole thing, but we can do this. 1611, and your presence is fullness of joy. And the thing about it, if I fill the mug up, there's no room for anything else, any anger, illness, or anything.

Fulness of joy. Psalm 1715, when I see your likeness, Lord, I'll be satisfied. And then Jesus himself talks about the believer goes to heaven, Luke, chapter 16, he says, and the description of him is now being comforted. So when we start just right there, we're talking about fullness of joy, complete satisfaction. satisfaction. Hebrews 12, 22, and 23 says, right now, if you were to look into heaven, you would see the souls of those, the spirits of the righteous, being made perfect, being made complete. So when we take those, that's enough for us to grasp and start saying,

we understand. We start understanding what you're giving us for Lord. The details, you know, we'll go down there. Revelation 21 and 22 give us some of the most comforting things that we can see. And that only describes the capital city of the new earth. So we get some details, but it's just like Jesus said before he ascended to the disciples. There are things you can't handle right now. Let me give you enough to, and think about what happened, you know, the introduction of the Holy Spirit and the wonder of the growing of the church. There were just things they could take the next step and the next step. And that's what we do. You know, that's in my ministry. I say there are so many things.

The reward seats, the recognizing other fellow believers in heaven, and all these things just cascade on us. The foods, you know, and then the incorruptible nature. Those things are enough. If we went too far, you know, there's just so many details that would be. I mean, we're talking about a new dimension. So we take what we can on the building blocks and then we build from there. And that's enough for us to be able to digest for the rest of our earthly lives.

Well, unlike you, I'm perfectly happy to speculate because I think it's fun. And I also think that, listen, I think the problem is we want to be careful because you do have people say things that just, I mean, for example, there was a book out, I don't know, was it 15 years ago about this four-year-old kid who saw heaven and whatever. And I thought this all sounds right to me. I don't have anything troubling here, except he describes, I guess he describes, I think it was people having wings like angels. And I thought, as far as I know, that's just flat out wrong. In other words, angels have wings. And there is this myth, a secular kind of myth. that when you die, you become an angel.

But no, you don't become an angel. You are a human being. And just as Jesus didn't have wings when he came back from death and he's, you know, going through walls and stuff, he didn't have wings. You remain a human being. Angels are different creatures. Angels are human beings are different creatures. And so you need clarity on that stuff.

So when I read that book, whatever, 15 years ago, I remember thinking, this is really tricky. Because I don't want to throw out everything that this kid is talking about. I think he's simply talking about what he saw. But I also know that I got to be careful because what he's saying, as far as I can tell, on this specific issue, is contradicted by Scripture, that you don't have wings when you get to heaven. That's different. Angels have wings. We don't become angels.

Angels are angels. We are human beings who will be in our heavenly bodies. Absolutely. John, for example, they must be magnificent because in Revelation 19 and verse 10 in Revelation 22, 9, John even admits, as he's writing this, that he falls down and starts to worship them. And they're like, cut it out, John. And here's something very important, Eric, in 22 verse 9 of Revelation, he says, stop this. I'm a fellow laborer with you.

I'm a co-labor with you. We're not the same. You know, we take a look in 1 Corinthians chapter 6 and verse 3. Very, very interesting here. Paul says we will judge angels in eternity. So they're a separate entity altogether. Right now, Hebrews 114 says they're ministering to us. And Matthew 1810 says, they look upon the face of the Father to come help us in need here and now.

But then, here's something interesting. Oh, actually, hang on one second. Go to a break. We'll be right back. Miracle Monday. We're talking with Brad Zockel about heaven. Brad, where can people find you? on YouTube or whatever because I know there's so much more to this.

Oh, thank you. If they go to YouTube, it is if you'll go within the YouTube search engine and put The Heaven Tour. And might want to tuck my name on the end. I do a live stream every day at 1 o'clock Eastern Standard Time for an hour. And I do have a Q&A time during that on there. But YouTube and then, of course, our web page is called theheaventore.com. Theheaventore.com. Okay.

And there. I'm also on TikTok. talk, but, you know, it would be under my name there. Shame on you. Okay, let's continue. No, this is so great to get this stuff out there. So again, there's a lot we can know, a lot we can't know. Have you heard any anecdotes from people who had a near-death experience or anything else that you found compelling or particularly biblical,

or do you just never talk about those? I'll answer yes to both. Well, I'll put it this way. virtually every time, I think with one exception in the three years I've been traveling around the country, every church I go to, someone has an experience. And here's the interesting thing, Eric. They will not stand up and broadcast this to be seen. They'll take me in a corner and say, this is embarrassing. You know, I'm kind of, but I want to ask you, am I nutty and things? And I will ask them, is there anything contradicting the scripture? Well, no, tell me all of it. And I say, this is between you and the Lord, and I don't discount this at all. But, On the NDE's, as I said, we get to subjective things. I will be obsessive with the scriptures. But yes, I find some very compelling stories, virtually every week. And every time I travel, there's at least one person that will take me aside, even pastors,

and will have some sort of a heavenly vision. And I do not discount God's walk with people, either in grief or maybe in promise and things along that line. So it's just something where God reaches out to us. You know, I was saying right before I break, Hebrews 132 says, we may have entertained angels and not been aware of it. So we can have the interaction of the celestial here on Earth right now while we're here. There are just things that I just can't say, absolutely, no, this is not going to happen and this will. And I leave that open.

I just go by what the scripture, the building blocks of what have, and there's a ton for me too. But yes, you are correct. There are people that will ask me, you know, about these different encounters. Well, what I don't understand, whenever anybody, I wrote a book on miracles where I wrote a lot about this kind of stuff. And I think I'm always annoyed at people who say, they tell me this amazing story. And it's like, well, I don't want to tell anybody because they're going to think I'm nuts. And I think, well, I already think you're a coward, which is worse. Why would you not share, unless God tells you not to?

Why would you not share a powerful story? Because as far as I'm concerned, it is an encouragement to people. I've heard people tell me these crazy miracle stories that are so encouraging and they don't talk about it public. I think so many people would be encouraged by that. Why wouldn't you share it? I'm fascinated by that. I really, I never know what to say. It just, it's, I think to the extent that I've heard these stories, they're a powerful confirmation to me of the reality of heaven, the reality of God, the reality of a heavenly dimension.

even while we're here seated with in this, you know, veil of tears, we're seated with him in heavenly places. There's this other. So whenever I get anecdotes, again, unless it's from people that are sloppy or they're, you know, you can tell, I think that's the point. You can tell when somebody has a reverence and they're telling you something with some trepidation or with a sense of fear of God. And then there are other people that, I don't know, they're trying to make names for themselves

or whatever. But it's strange to me that people are so diffident about. sharing really what I would consider generally encouraging things, things that would encourage the body of Christ and would encourage other people along such lines who are themselves afraid to speak. Maybe they've had an experience and they're afraid to speak because nobody else speaks. I will find a lot of people are very humbled when they've had an encounter with the celestial whenever they've seen this. A lot of them are just, did I, like I said, did I see right?

am I losing my mind, you know, and things? And so there's a lot. Now, whenever I talk with them, and as we said, do we have anything contradiction with the scripture? And when they suit, then they are given some encouragement when they say, okay, well, I didn't see anything that would collide with God's word. Then we'll see that. Now, as you also said, on a weekly basis, I'll have somebody that's very self-involved, narcissistic. Well, I've done this, and this is what God told me. And then I'm showing them, this is in direct contradiction with the scripture. And where is, this is a very important thing, this, when you were talking about visions of heaven, when somebody says, well, I've been to heaven, do you know in the scripture every earthbound narrator of seeing the vision of heaven? Ezekiel

in Ezekiel, chapter 1, Isaiah and Isaiah chapter 6, John in Revelation chapter 4, Maciah. You see Stephen in Acts chapter 7. Every time they looked into heaven and they looked into heaven and their feet were on earth, the first and foremost thing they saw was God on the throne. The first and foremost thing. Now, we go back to these NDE books, and you will find people writing a whole tomb, and they never mentioned God the Father at all. And then that's when I say, well, then I am very confused here because the pattern in the scripture is everybody, the one exception is Paul says in 2 Corinthians chapter 12.

I went to heaven, and these things are things that I'm not allowed to utter back. So he doesn't say he hadn't seen the throne. He was just saying these mysteries, I'm not allowed to relay. Everyone sees God on the throne, the manifestation of God in the throne. Very, very powerful thing. So we see where the glory goes, not through me, not through my, you know, I was there and you weren't. And so, you know, make me a celebrity and things like that. We see a humility.

Every time that I talk with somebody who has had that encounter, they're very humble, very, very, very meek in that. and, you know, wanting to know, what would God have me to do with this? Well, and that's part of how I think we can vet the stories, right? It's not just what people say, but how they say it. And I think, because I think we're obliged to try to understand, does this give me a glimpse into God? does it encourage me in God? Or does it distract me?

And that's always the case. Because we can, you know, there are demonic visions. They're confusing visions. There's all kinds of stuff. And I always, the reason I'm fascinated with this is because there is, we know there is a spiritual reality. It is invisible. It is outside of time and space. It often interacts in the world of time and space.

It's a real world. And there are demonic entities. and heavenly entities, and we see through a glass darkly. But the Lord wants us to have discernment. He doesn't want us to say, I'm not even going to talk about this stuff, but we have to be careful, we have to be reverent, we have to be sticking with what does the scripture say. We'll be right back, folks, talking to Brad Zockel. You can find him at the Heaven Tour.

The Heaven Tour.com. We'll be right back. Folks, welcome back. It's my joy to continue my conversation with Robert Netsley, the CEO and founder of inspire advisors. And Robert, I'm a little bit like a broken record. Every time I have you on, I'm just excited that it's possible to do something.

You know, most people have money invested. They're not quite aware of it. The very idea that we can kind of wake up to the reality that we do have choices, that we can have God's money invested in things, not just that we approve of, but that are actually, making it possible for you and other advocates to say on behalf of these shareholders going to a big

company and say, we don't like this. Can you change this? And many of them are going along with that. That is absolutely amazing to me. What you just shared about Walmart and Kroger, this is great news. It makes me want to run to Walmart and spend money because I want to bless them. In this case, they're taking a big step. Absolutely. And praise God. And there really is movement. And when you think about Walmart, they include millions and millions of people around the country or around the world, how many people shop there. We really are making a difference. And it's, you know, getting recognized beyond a scale that I could imagine. So our firm were managing over $3 billion at this point. We've been ranked in the fastest growing firms in the nation.

But just last week, the USA Today came out with their rankings and ranked, Inspired advisors, the third best financial advisory firm in the country, across all categories, all states, and, you know, much to the chagrin of the, you know, extreme leftists who say that our viewpoints are backwards and on the wrong side of history, and we can't possibly deliver good returns or good results if we're managing things according to this antiquated, anachronistic Bible that we tote around, you know, and ostentfully thump people over the head with. It's just ridiculous to them. But here we are, the top three in the entire country across all firms, all sizes, every state, out front, leading with biblical values and advocating for these things that we believe in.

And that's a win for everybody who invest with us, every client, every client who sent us a referral, everybody who has talked to their aunt Sally about where her money is and told her she needs to take a look at that, too. people like you, Eric, who are so passionate advocates for this movement, we're, you know, it's getting attention. And, you know, in our industry, the wolf management industry is not exactly a conservative bastion, you know, Wall Street's not exactly known for that, you know, conservative values, particularly in the social values. And they just, a lot of people just sort of stand agass and they're confused. How could these, how could this be at all successful? But you and I know, that there are still a lot of people in this country, probably the majority of people I'd imagine,

who do believe that these things are important and they want their money to be supporting the values that they hold dear. They don't want to give the vote of their dollar to affirm like BlackRock, who is using it to advocate for things completely in opposition to everything you hold dear. So it just makes sense. And so as the word gets out and people are waking up, I'm just so thrilled to see the results we're having, like we've been talking about with Walmart and Kroger,

just keeping the abortion pill out of their pharmacies. It's huge. Look, these are monster wins. Monster wins. I can't even believe it when you're telling me this. I'm thinking, wow, is this possible to influence a gigantic, a BMOF like Walmart, to do the right thing not to carry this evil abortion pill? It's unbelievable, folks.

And this is the free market. You know what? If you want to, you have an abortion or you want to go to whatever. You can do that, but we're in a free country, and Walmart can choose to do the right thing. And so we have to support those who are doing what we believe in. And so this is something, it's why I talk about this action point. Folks, I don't know why you wouldn't do this. Go to inspireadvisors.com slash Eric.

Please be a part of what God is doing.