The Eric Metaxas Show - Brant Hanson

Episode Date: January 11, 2023

Brant Hanson shares the amazing, therapeutic benefits of being able to “forgive your enemies” with ideas expanded upon in his new book, “Unoffendable.”

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show. They say it's a thin line between love and hate, but we're working every day to thicken that line, or at least to make it a double or triple line. But now here's your line jumping host, Eric Mattaxas.

Welcome back. This is called Hour 2. Right now I'm going to continue my conversation with Larry Alex Taunton. In a few minutes, we will talk to our friend Brent Hansen about his book, Unoffendable. And I don't want to forget to remind you in this hour, CSI, Christian Solidarity International, one of the great groups in this world. They are freeing slaves in the Sudan. Slaves who have been enslaved by radical Muslim. because they're Christians. Larry and I touched on this earlier. It's an extraordinary thing when we think that there are people whose religion compels them to rape and enslave. We're not making this up. This is not a caricature. This is reality.

But by the grace of God, there is a religion that compels us to do what we can to free those who are enslaved. And you have a literal opportunity to do that by going to metaxis talk.com. and you'll see the banner at the top. Metaxistalkisot.com, click on the CSI banner. We just have a few days left. If you haven't participated, you do not want to miss this.

Do something, and thank you for what you do. Larry, you have been talking about your article, Where of All the Good Men Gone? It's at Larry Alekshton.com. But you have mentioned that you are taking a trip. I can't believe you're doing this to Davos, Switzerland, for the World Economic Forum. it sounds like a nightmare.

I wouldn't go no matter what. I don't think I could. I think it just gives me hives even contemplating you going. But what is your thinking? Why are you doing this? Well, the World Economic Forum, to those who are uninitiated into this group, it is a group of globalists. It is a group that's atheistic to its core,

and they are driving a lot of the woke culture, a lot of the policy. that we're seeing around the world. You have people like Zelensky who are going to be there at this one. You know, Biden has been a part of it, the Trudeau, Macron, and so on. So what we're seeing in Brazil

with this populist movement there? It's the globalists who want to crush that. So I felt like it would be important to go into the belly of the beast. As you know, I like to do that. You know, when we were seeing all the atheistic nonsense, you know, coming out of the academy with Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens and, you know, Daniel Dennett, you know, my objective was make a beeline to those guys immediately. I don't want to read what anybody else had to say about them. I wanted to talk to them.

And we did. And, of course, we did a series of debates with them that, you know, have continued to, you know, on to reverberate to this very day. I'm going to the world economic form, but it's really interesting, Eric, because you're saying you wouldn't want to go. I really don't want to go either because the logistics are a nightmare. Davos is not easy to get to. It's almost impossible, really. I couldn't find a flight to Zurich or Geneva where I didn't have multiple stops. I'd want direct.

I mean, going from Atlanta, you'd have to go to Heathrow and then to Paris or something like that. So I ultimately decided, okay, I found a flight from Atlanta to Rome, and then I can take a train northward to Switzerland. and easy enough. I've done it before. But even then, you know, you're working your way through the Alps and to go just a short distance takes hours. So here I am, you know, for the last several months, I've been looking for a hotel room. The cheapest hotel room that I could find, I posted this on my Twitter page, was it $3,000 a night. Now, you may think, well, that might be.

You must think that's the Ritz Carlton. Looks like a Motel 6 at best. Okay. Why is this? This is insane. Is like every rich person on the planet going there at the same time? Is that part of it? Yes.

Yes, that's part of it. And also because Davos itself is very, very small, meaning it feels me like Eric, you know, why haven't they moved to a Paris or to a Zurich or to a Basel or, you know, to Berlin? Well, I think they want their exclusivity. The rich can get in and out on a private, you know, airport. You know, I can't get in and out of there on, you know, unless you. you loan me your private jet, I'm not going to be able to get in and out of there. So the rest of us have to, you know, trudge our way there by these bizarre means. And I managed to speak to a woman

at something kind of like their Chamber of Commerce. And I was so desperate for room, Eric, that I was saying, look, can you ask your colleagues? I will pay a thousand a night, which is way lower than the, you know, the going rate. But all I need is a bed. Can somebody just give me a bed. Somebody have a room anywhere that I could stay. Even at that, I had no takers, but she did give me an idea of where I could stay. And so I've managed to get a room for two nights there. That's, you know, that's all I could afford. I'm very blessed to have some people behind me who said, go, do it, take it. So I'm on my way there. And I'm not paying to go into the actual, conferences, as you and I have discussed before, you know, to get into that, I think it's $25,000,

you know, in order just to get into that part. But as we both know, the real conversations, and I think it's Peter Goodman who writes or I can't remember if it's the New Yorker for New York magazine, but I read his book, Davos Man, and he's gone, you know, several years. And he's just not even worth going to those because the real meanings are taking place in the hotel lobbies. taking place in the coffee shops, the restaurants. So I plan to be a fly on the wall and really kind of be your eyes and ears as to what's going on in Davos. And who are all these hangers on, you know, who are also coming? This woman that I spoke to again at something like their Chamber of Commerce, not really, but almost, she was telling me that there are a lot of,

you know, sightseers, if you will. It's a ton of people who come just hoping to get a of the Bill Gates's and, you know, the Zelenskies and the Bidensk and so on who are also there. So I want to really get the feel of this creepy organization and what they want to do. And let me throw this in very quickly, as you and I have discussed before, Eric, these are individuals. I'm not making this up. This is not conspiracy theory who want to reduce the global population from $8 billion to less than $2 billion. And if you're doubting that this is really part of the agenda,

please note that they are pushing abortion everywhere, that they are now pushing assisted suicide in a very big way with our neighbor to the north, Canada. It is coming to your city. It's coming to your state. And we may also mention, I never would mention it publicly, but we could mention, since it's just you and me talking, that they're pushing vaccines.

which are not real vaccines and which seem to have adverse effects on healthy young people, some as adverse as death itself. But of course, death is much preferable to getting COVID. It's amazing, Larry, that we're living in times when we're not exaggerating. We're telling the truth. Most people are not reporting on these things. But the good news is that there are more and more people waking up. They're looking for alternative news sources, and we have heroic figures, whether it's Tucker Carlson or Laura Logan or you, so many writing about these things.

And I think that we're living through something utterly unprecedented in our lives, in some ways in history, and that we have to just look to God in the midst of it because there's no real map for how we, get through this. But I'm just, I'm thrilled that you are going to go. And I assume you're going to be writing while you're there and after you're there and we'll have you back on when you come back. When do you actually go? I leave this Friday. The, you know, the actual conference, you know, begins next week. So older I get Eric, I'm sure that you can identify with this. It takes me longer, you know, to get over the, you know, the jet lag. So I want to go a few days in advance to try to acclimate, you know, just a little bit to that seven-hour time difference. And then I'll take the train northward.

I have a couple of meetings in Rome at the Vatican and a couple other places. Wow. Man, I wish I could go with you. The idea of being in Italy right now is just sounds like a nice idea. I'm glad you're going to go. Are you going alone or with one of the boys? No, I'm going by myself on this trip. And then afterwards I will, that is after I'm finished at Davos, I will report on their war.

And that's what's going on in Ukraine. Yeah, I'm sorry we're at a time. And by the way, when I say the boys, I mean the men, because your boys are now men. Great to talk to you, folks. Check out Larry, alextaunton.com. Larry, thank you, my friend. Why should you choose to supplement your pets diet? Because they do the same thing to pet food that they do to most human food these days.

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To claim your offer, go to pawmaid. Or call toll-free 833-Paw-Made. That's P-A-W-M-A-D-E dot com slash Eric or call 833 Paw-Made. Our annual mission to free slaves in Sedan, along with our partner Christian Solidarity International, is making great progress. We're almost to our goal of giving freedom

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Click on the Christian Solidarity banner at the top of the page. Hey there, folks. Welcome to the show. If your wig feels uncomfortable, there's not a lot I can do about it. I'm just a radio host here, okay? I get to talk to someone that I know on a subject that I consider important. His name is Brandt Hanson. The book is Unoffendable How Just One Change Can Make All of Life Better. Brandt Hanson, welcome, back. Thank you.

Thank you, Eric Matakson. It's good to be back. Okay, just to cut to the chase. Now, look, you're a nationally-sacin-law. indicated radio host, and you do something called a podcast called The Brandt and Sherry Oddcast. Sherry is your wife? No, she's my producer. Your producer?

Does your wife know about this? Does your wife know about this podcast? And you also work with Cura International, but okay, we've met and we like to joke around, but this is a really serious subject. your book is called unoffendable. It has sold a zillion copies. This is the revised and updated version. Unoffendable asks the question, well, what, you tell me, because I don't, I can read it.

The crazy question. Well, the crazy, is it possible to live a life where you're putting off anger, where you're not angry all the time? Okay. So on the back of the book, it says, here's a crazy question. What if we decided not to be offended? So what do we mean? What do you mean by that? The book is titled Unoffendable.

So obviously that's what you deal with. But what does that mean not to be offended and not to be angry all the time? I'm talking about giving up your right to offense, giving up your right to anger. Anger is a fight or flight response. That's what it's supposed to be. So all these physiological things happen to us. We're not supposed to live there, though. It kills us.

It's terrible for us physically, spiritually, everything. But we've made it into an art form. where we think we're supposed to be angry all the time about everything. And there's no shortage of things to be angry about, legitimate things. There's no shortage. And there never will be a shortage. Actually, that's very important to say. There is no shortage of things to be angry about.

The level of injustice in the world, the evil in the world. The question is, how do we deal with it? And the bigger question would be, I would ask, how does God want me to deal with it? Because clearly, God cares about injustice, brokenness, poverty, pain, disease. I mean, God cares, and he wants us to care, but we're not God. How do we process these things without going crazy? Okay, so there is no, this is shocking to people, because it was shocking to me. There is no righteous anger for humans in the Bible. There isn't. There's righteous anger for God. There's also vengeance for God and ultimate judgment for God.

he's not a sinner, I am. What we're actually instructed to do biblically, it says, in your anger, do not sin, and then get rid of it before the sun goes down. That's what the verse says. Like, God is very good to us. He knows that we are not designed to carry around this sort of, this anger all the time. That's his business. So what I'm supposed to actually do, and this is, it sounds radical, it's crazy,

but it'd be amazing if people actually do this. What I'm actually supposed to do is live a life of forgiveness. where I can acknowledge that something's wrong. I can address injustices. I can do the right thing. I can stand up against evil. I'll actually do a better job of that if I'm putting off anger and forgiving people as I've been forgiven. So I'm not doing it out of anger.

I'm doing it because it's the right thing. I read a book called Bonhofer, which is really good by Eric Pataxis. Is that the one where the author claims he was gay? No, that's a different Bonhofer book. That's a different Bonhoffa book. That's a different one. Yeah. It was a different one.

But Bonhoffer himself said that Jesus doesn't make a distinction between righteous and unrighteous anger. We're supposed to put it off. Like this, same thing with Martin Luther King Jr. He said, I couldn't be angry against the people who firebomb my house because of what God has done for me. I'm not allowed to hold on to anger. I have to forgive, but I still stand up for what's right and do the right thing.

Not out of anger, but because it's the right thing. We actually do a better job when we pursue justice. not out of anger, but out of compassion to protect the vulnerable, for instance. Now, this is a heavy concept because I think a lot of times practically speak, we have to talk about what we mean practically, right? In other words, it's one thing, if I hear of a child being raped, the natural response is righteous anger. The question is, am I angry at the sin and at the act and at the evil,

or at the person and what do I do with that emotion, that's kind of, you know, because if somebody is so at peace that something like that doesn't bother them, I would say, well, I don't understand. That doesn't seem human to me. If you hear about something really evil being done to another person, something in you rises up. The question is, what about it?

What do you do with that? So that's a response to threat. Here's what I do with it. Okay, so you feel this like your own kids, are threatened. You feel this. People are threatened if we don't engage evil. But here's the thing. The people that we charge, Eric, with addressing injustice in our court, do you want them to do it out of anger? Like the police, judges, juries, like we're supposed to pursue what's right and justice, not out of anger, but because it's the right thing. What I have to do is understand I live in a broken world.

There's plenty to be angry about, but God has forgiven me. So I forgive people whether they deserve it or not, because I didn't. And in fact, that's what we find if you actually want to engage the words of Jesus. He's saying, if you don't forgive others, I won't forgive you. Like your forgiveness, I forgive people out of that. So I put off my sense of anger as best I can. I engage it with God to say, I want to live a life where I'm not consumed by anger. It's based on the fact that God has forgiven me.

So we're very good at being angry at everybody else's sin and the appalling things that everybody else does. The fact is Jesus levels the moral playing field. We're just as bad. And a lot of people don't want to hear that, but that is how Jesus approaches the world. I'm pretty tick to you right now for even mentioning it. No, actually, but for me it is the practicality of it. I mean, I remember it was kind of funny a few years ago

at the National Prayer Breakfast. Arthur Brooks was talking about, you know, loving your enemies or forgiving your enemies. And Trump, in his classic way, which is one of the reasons I love him, is like he says what everybody's thinking, but nobody else would say it. Everybody would go, yep, yep, yep, yep.

And he gets up and says, like, kind of like, I don't get that. Kind of like, that doesn't make sense to me. Because practically, you have to, you have to break down what does it mean, right? Like you just said, there are some people that would say, like, well, just abolish the police and let everything go and be a bit. And you're like, no, no, no, no, no. You have to deal with evil.

You have to protect the innocent. The question is, how do you do it? How? You can do it without it. Again, we do it. can do it better without anger. Yeah. Anger does not help your judgment.

If you actually do a study in a Hebrew and a Greek of what anger is talking about the Bible, like it's always negative for humans. It resides in the lap of fools. That's where it lives. Is it possible? Now, I would think that somebody would, like, you can look at how offended everybody is all the time. They think it is righteous to be offended all the time so they can pat themselves on the back for being angry about everything.

but the fact is it's not you're you're so biased towards yourself you'll be angry about things that only affect you for instance your issues but you can travel the world there's a billion things to be angry about for the rest of your life so you can say well is this practical that i actually forgive people and still pursue justice yes it is you know what's harder than forgiveness is living an entire life with unforgiveness we're actually consumed by anger for the rest of your life and not have any peace at all. That's the way a lot of people are living now. And it takes a huge effect on your relationships, your your your your physiology, by holding anger in or by constantly being angry, not just holding it in, but by being angry, having that cortisol spike, the adrenaline spike, the the blood pressure issues that like all this stuff that happens because you're angry all the time. This is not a good way to live. Well, and this is interesting again, because I want to clarify, God, calls us to fight. He doesn't call us to just kind of groove on the rubble and be like everything's

cool, nothing matters. No, we're not talking about that, but we're talking about how does God call us to fight? And it's very different. The way God calls us to mourn, the way he calls us to rejoice, when he calls us to do what he calls us to do, it's different than the way the world does it. And so when we see injustice, our response as Christians ought to look different than what the world's response looks like. But I think a lot of Christians have taken this. You can go wrong in both directions, right? Like one person can say, like, I just think, like, you know, nothing matters, and I shouldn't be upset about anything, and who cares, and we're all sinners. And you go, wait a minute, wait a minute.

There are bad things happening, and you have to respond. Do you have to do what you can to be a healer? You have to fight injustice. You have to fight evil. But how you do it? How do you do it? That's the question. And your motivations are everything when it comes to your spirituality.

Like your motivations are everything. So it's easy for everybody to get angry. A toddler can stay angry. Like, do you actually function better without it to address injustice? I would say you do. So it's a myth when people say, well, if I can't get angry, I won't do anything. Well, then you've got to. problem. You mean you won't defend the vulnerable unless you're angry about it? And as soon as that

emotion passes, you won't do anything. That's the problem. I'd like people, they can look at my own life and the stuff I do. And I'm not doing it out of anger. I think I'm more effective when I forgive and say, look, people don't really even know what they're doing. Jesus is on the cross and having to deal with that. I want to, well, we will continue the conversation, folks. I'm talking to Brandt Hanson. The book is unoffendable. Thanks, to your support, Patriot Mobile has emerged as one of the leaders in the parallel economy, and they have big news. Patriot Mobile now offers service with all three major networks. This means if you're with the big three and like the service but hate their values, you can access them with

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relief to find out about this offer. Feel the difference. Folks, welcome back. I'm talking to Brandt Hansen, who's written a book called Unoffendable, how just one change can make all of life better. And this is a revised and updated version because the previous version was loaded with anger and you had to edit that out, correct? It was just dripping with rage and he thought that makes no sense. That makes no sense. Right. We had to edit that. Okay, so we're talking about, I mean, there are certain scriptures I have to remember constantly. Like one of them in Philippians, be anxious for nothing, but in all things by prayer and supplication. Make your quest known unto God. You know, because it's very natural for me

to be anxious because things are wrong, things are screwed up. And I have to remember that God says, in love, he says to me, son, be anxious for nothing, but bring these things to me in prayer. Yes, these are screwed up things, but instead of being anxious and letting it rot you from the inside out in anger or whatever it is, bring it to me, pray, ask me how you should deal with this, or ask me to deal with it. It's really important for our souls, for our lives, for our health, for our physical health, that we don't walk around carrying anger. That is a fact, and the Bible says it over and over and over again. And obviously in your book, Unoffendable, you talk. about that. Well, Jesus is brilliant because he's given us the best way to live. He's a genius.

And all the other things he is, but he's on the cross saying, Father, forgive them. They don't know what they're doing. I think we forget that when we see people saying things that are horribly wrong, doing things that are obviously horribly wrong. It's on display every day. However, if you're also somebody who's a Jesus follower, for instance, you're coming at it from that that angle, you know you're in a battle not against flesh and blood, but against spiritual things. That's right. So I have to look at somebody with compassion and go, okay, they're fooled. They're taking over. They're doing evil things, but I'm not at, I'm actually not at war with

them. So when Jesus is on the cross saying that, that has to be my posture every day. So what I do is go into the day saying, I'm not going to be offended by everybody today. They're going to do human stuff because humans do human things. So to constantly be shocked by human behavior, somebody cuts you off on the interstom. state and you're shocked again? Like, I can't believe my mom said that. How long has she been saying stuff like that? 57 years?

Okay, well, maybe it's time to go ahead and believe she says stuff like that. But we're constantly shocked by human behavior. Shouldn't we, if you already know what human nature is like, shouldn't you be the least offended every day, like constantly being shocked by how awful everybody is? You already know. You make a good point. Have you thought about putting this in a book? Unoffendable.

He'll never sell. How just one. change can make all of life better. But I still think, I just want to be clear that I think this is hard what you're saying. In other words, I think that it is so ingrained into us that to really walk in the way Jesus did. I mean, look, Jesus turned over the tables of the money lenders in the temple. So this is not, we're not trying to like sell an image here of, I'm just, I'm just at peace all the time. I don't know.

You hear me about this. Yeah. That's how I'm saying it's important people understand that. But my, like my friend Sherry says, she's like, honey, you're not Jesus in that story. You're the money changers. Like we all want to think my anger is righteous. Everybody thinks their anger is righteous. No one's walking around.

My anger is completely off base. What am I? We got a bunch of people who are very angry, very righteously angry in his country. We have that. Shouldn't there be somebody that's like, actually, I'm not God. he's entitled to vengeance, he's entitled to righteous anger, he can be trusted with it. So for me to compare myself with Jesus and go, see, he did that, ergo, I can do this. Like, that's actually not, although we are supposed to model ourselves on Jesus.

So in other words, that's a little complicated what you're saying. I know what you're saying, but we are supposed to model ourselves on him. If we see corruption, what he did when he saw corruption is he called it out and took action against the corruption. So we are, we are supposed to care about that. He is the final judge, too, right? He is sinless. You and I aren't. And it's funny, like, again, like, he can be trusted with certain things that we can't be.

There is no scripture that tells us to be and stay angry. Oh, no, there's no doubt. No, no, I agree with that. But I'm just trying to process, like, you know, when you get to the so-called granular level, what does it look like when... Let me tell you. Yeah. Right.

Here's what it looks like every day, remembering to be grateful for what God has done for you. Well, that... Start right there. Yeah. That's it. So you interface with the world from that standpoint on a daily basis. You're so thankful that God is forgiving you. You know you live in a broken world.

You're still going to advocate for what's right, but you're going to do it from a clear mind, understanding that God forgave you, you didn't deserve it. You're going to extend it to people. They may never apologize. You're going to do it because it clears the way for you and God to have a life where you're not being eaten alive by this every day. You can offer yourself to your family and be an older person who's an inspiration because you've changed. You become at peace instead of one more angry voice that's all chinned up about everything. It's like, yeah, there's wrong things in the world.

We need to address them. Absolutely. Well, a lot of it better without it. A lot of it, too, is a self-righteousness, right? In other words, this idea. And look, we clearly see this in the woke world that they're basically saying, I mean, I remember in college at Yale starting to drink this Kool-Aid, like the rich are evil. And we have permission to hate them, to hate those corrupt bankers and business people, whatever, but the poor, they're cool or something like that. So you're giving yourself permission to hate a whole group of people because they're evil.

And like you're not, right? and it feels good. It feels so good to be morally superior. And I hate you and you deserve to be hated. It feels so good. It'll kill you, but it feels good and it's wrong. And we're going to continue the conversation with Brant Hanson. The book is unoffendable.

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Again, use code Eric and Save MyPillow.com. Oh, I didn't see you come in. My name is Eric Metaxus. I host this program. And I have a guest, Brand Hansen. His book is Unoffendable, how just one change can make all of life better. So not to be constantly offended, angry. Another thing that comes up, which is similar to this, is when somebody says, like they bring somebody up, somebody that, you know, you might think is loathsome, like Adolf Hitler or the current president or whoever it is that you put in a category of like, but God commands us to pray for them.

And a lot of people don't get that. They're like, what do you? How could I, how could I pray for? folks, you're not praying that they succeed in their evil designs, okay? You're praying because you realize, apart from the grace of God, you would be where they are. And if you think that somehow you're magically better than the worst people you can think of, don't you understand that that's only the grace of God that enables you even to see the evil in that person? Because those people think they're doing what is good.

So that's an important thing, you know, when we talk about praying for people that we would totally disagree with. We're praying for their soul. We're trying to look at them the way God looked at us before we turned to him. And that takes humility and gratitude. And that's at the core I know of what you're saying. That is it. So you can look at a politician who drives you crazy or a media person drives you crazy and actually be rooting for them. And I know that sounds nuts, but try it.

Actually, like when Jesus is telling us to bless our enemies to pray for those who are like pray for our enemies, love our enemies, it's for us. it's for our own way we thrive when we look at it this way when we when it changes our heart you just try it for five minutes like actually asking god to bless your enemies okay now when you're saying that again i want to be clear we're not saying folks to bless their minds right what you're saying is imagine imagine if in 1942 people had prayed for hitler and imagine we know it didn't happen, but imagine if somehow, by some miracle, his heart had begun to change or things had begun to change, this doesn't mean you don't fight World War II. This doesn't mean you don't war against the Nazis, that you do everything, you kind of take them down. But imagine if you

could see a person repent, and you think, wow, how beautiful. I never dreamt. I never dreamt. that that person could repent. But God said even that person could repent. So we're not talking about being foolish here, folks, but we're talking about what the scripture says, that you better be humble. You better be humble as you approach people you disagree with. This is radical stuff. And I understand Donald Trump encountering this idea and going, I don't know if I can do this. I get that. A lot of people walked away. They don't get Jesus at all, like being on a cross and praying that way. But he's, he actually is rooting for all of us to know him. So that's what I'm praying for. I want people to be at peace. And I know

the only source of that peace is going to be for them actually knowing the God who loves them and created them and created us instead. It's very good. Like, he wants this. So that's what I'm praying for. I'm not praying for them to get away with whatever they want to get away. Well, I was going to say, we're not praying for

Stalin to succeed. No. No. That's not good for him. Right. But that's why I thought it was just, it was just beautifully honest of Trump when he said, like, I don't get this. Because this takes some breaking down. You have to understand, what do we mean by that? What do we, what do we mean? Because there's some people that they kind of just act like, like, oh, no, no, you know what?

Actually, was Joan Baez, like in the 60s, when, you know, Jesus said, love your enemies. And she really piously and preposterously tried to one up Jesus and said, like, I'd like to think I don't have any enemies. And I thought, no, you're missing it. Jesus said there are enemies, enemies, and I'm telling you pray for your enemies. And she's like, oh, there are no enemies. That's like saying everybody's my enemy or I need to kill my enemies. I mean, you can get it wrong in both directions. And it takes breaking down, which is one of the reasons I like to talk to you, and I'm glad you wrote your book unoffendable, because we need to understand practically what this is, because there's a lot of bad ideas about this going in both directions.

Right. Absolutely. So this is a third direction. I'm not trying to do third way stuff. It's just like it's a third direction. It is me acknowledging that there is evil in the world. That alone puts me out of like the idea I believe in good and evil. Yeah.

And then the idea that I'm actually supposed to forgive people in my heart, pray for my enemies and bless those who persecute me. Like this is a ticket to freedom for me. Yeah. I don't have to carry this around all the time. I don't have to be angry all the time. This changes your heart and who you're becoming, which is that's all I have. I got one shot at peace in this lifetime. I got one shot.

I can be consumed with anger towards everybody all the time for all the evil stuff they're doing. Or I can recognize evil, address it, do something about it. But in my heart, I'm actually praying for these people. I have one way to get peace. And that's why Jesus is so genius. He's showing us this is the way to live. I don't want to just brush that off. Like, this is a radical way to live, but it's a good one.

Yeah. And this is what it is to walk with Jesus. This is not a credit Christianity. It might be difficult, but the point is God says, this is what I'm calling you to, everyone. To follow his way of living, which actually leads to freedom. This is the way to live. And we'll thrive and it'll actually be a blessing to our families because we're not so bound up with the latest headline that sent us over the edge every day. Because there's always going to be something.

Always. I mean, praying for our enemies is just the healthiest thing we could conceivably do. Because first of all, folks, if you pray for your enemies, that's one way of stopping them from doing the bad stuff that's made them your enemies. Pray for them that they might see what you see. Pray for them that they would see it. Because I have to say that I know people prayed for me. I know I didn't get any of this stuff at some point. And I think because of that, it's easier for me to see what it would be like to not get any of this stuff and just to be completely radically on the opposite side of everything I am politically and whatever. Because, you know, I didn't reason my way to the

the truth. It's really God's grace that helped me to see what I see. When you're that thankful, like when you've gone through, or you've gone through or something, you feel like I've been let off death row. Like, do I, if I got let off death row today and I'm

driving home from the court and I was guilty, would I be incensed when somebody cuts me off? Would I be like? That's actually hilarious. That's a beautiful illustration. Right? I mean, so, but that's,

the reality that we have to live in so we have to remind each of us so in t right even describe you describe what the church is supposed to be he said it's a small group of people living out jesus way of forgiveness together we have to remind each other of this all the time because our natural bent is to be anxious and is to be angry all the time so it does take practice but it changes us it humbles us and helps us be different like we'll be a really weird people who stand for what's true do the right thing, but we don't do it out of anger. People can actually tell we love them. We'll be back. Final segment with Brandt Hansen. And the fact that it's the final segment, I am so ticked off at that right now. I can't even tell you.

Hey there, folks. I'm talking on Brandt Hanson, who's doing the secret podcast with a woman who's not his wife. What is it called? What's your podcast called? I want to make sure I get this right. It's the Brand and Sherry Oddcast. The Oddcast. Okay. And I think your wife probably knows about it by now. You do the Brandt and Sherry Oddcast and your nationally syndicated radio host. You work with Cure International. And you've written the book we're talking about called Unoffendable. Excuse me.

You know, part of what has to be said is that it's a Freudian model, which is wrong, that I have to vent my anger. This is total baloney. It's not biblical. But it's been baked into the culture, just the way it's been baked into the culture that I've got to quote unquote express my anger. myself sexually or I'll be repressed. I've got to express my anger or complete garbage. This is not biblical, but it's been baked into the cultural narrative that it's healthy

to vent. Now, there's always some truth in every lie, but somehow this gives permission to people sometimes to say things when scripture would counsel them not to say something, to say to God. We're supposed to vent about our own sin. It's called confessing. But confessing everybody else's sins, it actually becomes, when we get worked up into a frenzy, it actually becomes kind of a cheerleading moment for ourselves is what usually happens.

But it's so interesting, Eric, because everybody realizes we have an epidemic of anger in this country. So everybody writes about it, New York Times, Washington Post, and it's so interesting because when they talk to psychologists about how should we handle our anger towards Trump or towards whoever at this moment, this politician or that, well, you should take 10 deep breaths, maybe go for a walk. They never mentioned forgiveness.

Like, I think Jesus, again, is a genius. And what he's giving us is a way to live that actually deals. It's the only way to deal with anger. And it doesn't mean that you have to stay in relationship. If I forgive somebody, it doesn't mean I have to stay in relationship with them. The weird thing is, if you don't forgive them, you will be staying in relationship. with them in your head for the rest of your life. In your head.

They got free right in your head, man. Right. So forgiveness is freedom. It's a way out of this so that you can be a more effective person in pursuing what's right. I mean, listen, I know people that are consumed with hatred for Donald Trump. And I would say to them, listen, folks, pray for him. Pray for him.

I dare you to pray for him. And if you hate somebody else, pray for them. And again, when you say pray for them, You're not praying that they succeed in the thing that you hate. You're praying that God would get a hold of them because of your prayers, that some miracle would happen and that their heart would change. And you're going to change too. When you pray for somebody, it's harder to hate them in that way. And I pray for my enemies or people that have really hurt me.

And, uh, Brandt, you're three of those people. And that's just during the show, just during this show. No, but at the point is like it is the most freeing thing. thing. And you know, you talk about what separates us, you know, from the apes or from the animals. I mean, this is what separates the sheep from the goats. When you pray for someone who has hurt you, it is the most beautiful, freeing thing. And it sort of proves that God is real. Because how can you do that? How can you speak blessing over someone who has hurt you? Well, it's because you see them the way God sees them. Right. This is kind of important stuff. Have you

of writing a book about this? I don't think it'll sell, but eventually I'd like to try it. Well, this is very counter, it's very countercultural, it's very counterintuitive, and we need both of those things because our culture is sick. Like, this is the only way out of this, I think, and it's not surprising Jesus is giving us the best way. No, it's not surprising. What's surprising is that a bum like you should try to preach to me about this issue.

No, folks, I'm having fun talking to Brandt Hansen. The book is unoffendable, and it is a very important subject. Brandt Hanson, thank you, my friend, for writing unoffendable. God bless you. Thank you. I'm sorry I'm so underdressed. You look awesome. I forgot to. Yeah, next time we'll both wear a swallow-tailed coats.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Absolutely.