The Eric Metaxas Show - Cal Thomas (Encore)

Episode Date: May 25, 2020

Cal Thomas brings a warning with his new book, "America's Expiration Date," where he poses the question, could America crumble and our democracy actually fail? (Encore Presentation)

Eric Mataxis show. Are you ready for the Eric Mataxis show? We'll buckle your seatbelts, folks, and get ready for something so unexpected that if you are actually to expect it, you'd go back in time. And bump into your past self so hard that you'd both be bruised to the point of never being able to recognize yourself again. Or even be able to make any sense of this sentence. Or this one. Or this one. That was so confusing. My head hurts. And I just want to say thank you, Todd Wilkerson. What a sweet, confused soul he is. Pray for Todd. Folks, on this program, we call this the program about everything. It's the show about everything. And a lot of stuff falls under the rubric of everything, which gives us a lot of latitude. So today, I get to speak

to someone whom I have followed for many, many years and more recently have the privilege of calling him friend, and then even more recently, former friend, Cal Thomas, Cal Thomas. Cal Thomas, welcome to the program. Well, thank you, Eric. I'm glad to know this at the show about everything, the antithesis of Seinfeld. That's, you know what? That's quite right, actually. That's actually quite right, and it's not as though that was lost on us, but you know, being the bright man that you are, that, and I only know this because Chuck Colson used to quote it all the time. But Chuck Colson always used to quote Abraham Kuiper, the Dutch theologian, and statesman, who famously said, there is not one square inch of all creation over which Jesus Christ, who is sovereign, does not say mine.

So when I say it's the show about everything, what I really mean is that everything is fair game for God because it's all of his creation. So the idea that we should only talk about religious things is preposterous. We should talk about everything and bring in our cacamamemi, old-fashioned worldview. And that's why I wanted to have you on this program. Well, thank you. When you mentioned Colson, I thought you were going to quote one of my favorite lines from him. The kingdom of God is not going to arrive aboard Air Force One. You know something? He was not speaking ex-cathedral when he made that statement. Everybody knows that Trump is a latter-day Cyrus. So we, you and I have known each other, so we joke around, but let's get serious. Let's at least try to be serious for a moment. You have a new book out. It's a small book easily put in one's purse, should one. have a purse. It is called America's expiration date, the fall of empires and superpowers in the future of the United States. And the question at the top is, will history repeat itself in America

fail? Okay, America's expiration date. Cal Thomas, what do you mean by that? The book is inspired by an essay by the late British diplomats, Sir John Glob, who studied 4,000 years of human history and found that there was a pattern to the decline of great nations. And the last stage before collapse is decadence. And he defined decadence as massive national debt. We have $23 trillion in growing. Neither party wants to do anything about it. Uncontrolled immigration without assimilation.

That continues to be a problem. A loss of a shared moral sense. A rejection of God. The Pew Research Center asked millennials about their religious affiliation. and 20% said none, and anything goes culture. And who would argue against that philosophy, that anything goes today? And if you're opposed to anything that anyone wants to do, then you're a bigot, intolerant, one of many kind of fobes, and the rest.

So I'm not one of those prophets walking around with a sandwich board that says the end is near, Eric, but I am saying that America is on a pattern that is similar to all of these other empires that I write about in the book. And if we don't turn it around, there's no guarantee we will not suffer the same fate as theirs. Wow, that's a great summation. Unfortunately, I wasn't listening. Can you repeat it from the beginning, please? Can I do it backwards because I'm dyslexic?

Everything you just said. Now, first of all, you referenced Sir John. Glob. Glub. G-L-U-B-B-B. What a name. That's a Dickensian name, isn't it? Sir John Glob.

Well, Sir John Glob, when he wrote that, what year roughly are we talking about? Well, we're talking late 19th, early 20th century. Okay, so not so, I mean, fairly recently, he said this. Well, yes, yeah, but 4,000 years of human history. If you look at the Roman Empire, which lasted longer than the average, he writes, about 250 years, obviously, but follow the same pattern. Byzantium, the Spanish Empire, the Russian Empire, under Catherine the Great, all of these Persian Empire, all of them follow similar pattern, military overreach,

which President Trump is trying to pull back on, and rightly so, and getting many of our allies to pony up some money where they've been living rent-free under the nuclear umbrella since World War II from the United States. So he's trying to pull some of these things back, but it's very, very difficult because he can't do it on his own. Now, the main reason I know you is because I've read your writings over the years. You're an outspoken, a Christian and an outspoken conservative, and you have always had civility and grace. for people who don't agree with you. And that's one of the reasons that I've admired you. In fact, every year, and this year I wasn't able to get there. But every year at the National Prayer Breakfast, you put on a lovely dinner for media people. One year I got to speak at it. But you always try to

reach out to people on the other side. But when you reach out to people on the other side, as I try to do as well, it doesn't mean you don't yourself have fixed opinions about how things are. So it sounds to me, as you're speaking now, that you do think that this president is trying to do some good things to counter the narrative that you talk about in the book? Well, there's no question, Eric, but I've stopped seeing people as on the other side. First of all, we're all fellow human beings. Speak for yourself. We all have a sin nature, which needs to be transformed.

We are fellow Americans, and I think one of the problems in the country now that is responsible for so much of the divisions is we see ourselves as hyphenated Americans or parts of tribes. And we don't even know each other. We tune in only to those programs that reinforce what we already believe. There was a question asked at the National Prayer Breakfast this year for people to raise their hands. There were over 3,000 people in the audience if they knew and had a relationship with anybody who was on the other side of the political spectrum. And Arthur Brooks, the speaker, he asked that. Spoke on reconciliation, a brilliant talk. Virtually everybody in the place raised their hand. Donald Trump did not. I think that's too bad. Well,

Listen, I think we, I didn't mean to get off on Trump, but since you and I have met at the prayer breakfast many, many times, I thought what happened at the prayer breakfast, just to mention it before we go on to talk about your book, and we've got plenty time. But I was fascinated, really, at what Trump said in response to Arthur Brooks, and then I was fascinated by the response to what Trump said. The reason I say that is that people jumped all over him as the. though he had said, I don't want to love my enemies. I don't want to obey. He didn't say that. He said, I have a hard time liking the people who've done this to me. And I thought what that does is it sums up the misunderstanding of the command to love our enemies. We're not supposed to like our enemies. We're supposed to love them, which is to say we're supposed to behave toward them as we would want them to behave toward us. But it was just a fascinating thing. I didn't mean to get off on that, but it kind of

gets to this topic of how do we treat people who have different ideas than we do? And you really always have been, you've made a particular effort to speak to people on the other side of the political spectrum. Well, just from a practical point of view, Eric, you know, Arthur Brooks talked about if you can't really love your enemy, then fake it, he said, and everybody laughed, because the whole notion of reconciliation has a power unto itself. Correct. It's not some kumbaya love your enemies, fake feeling sort of thing. You disarm the other person. This is what I've tried to do. I have many liberal friends, many liberal Democrat friends. They wonder why I care about them. And I built these relationships over the years. Just had dinner a few nights ago with a very

prominent former columnist for the New York Times. He's been my friend for many years. And this opens up the door for witness because they can't figure out. They have this stereotype about conservatives and Christians. If you are labeled those things, then you're a little bit of then you ought to hate the following people. You ought to be opposed to the following people. Everybody knows what we're against, but what and who we are for? I'm for Jesus. He's the greatest power on earth and in heaven. He is the only one who can transform a life and a nation. Not Democrats, not Republicans. If they could, they would have by now. But we get the same stuff every election cycle. Paul wrote, writes in Romans 8, God has built futility into his

creation in hope that the creation will turn to him. We've tried everything. in my lifetime on this earth. Left, right, conservative, liberal, all sorts of stuff, and we're still where we are, because we haven't turned to the only person who has the power to change us. Holy cow, I agree with every word, or it could be faking it. When we come back, we will discuss that. The book is America's expiration date. Cal Thomas is my guest. Wow, I want to listen to the rest of that song, but I can't because Cal Thomas, my friend, the columnist, the author is in the studio. and it would be quite rude if I were just to continue listening to the groovy 70s tunage. Cal, people who don't know you should know that you have been one of the nation's most widely syndicated columnists for over 30 years.

Your stuff has been in so many papers. In the Danbury paper where I grew up, your stuff has been in there for a long time, which has led my father to admire you. finally to meet you a few years ago. But you do write books, and this one I think is very important. It's a small book, so it's not frightening to read. The title is America's Exploration Date, The Fall of Empires and Superpowers and the Future of the United States. We were just talking about a number of things, but to get back to the thesis of the book, what are the marks of, I mean, you mentioned earlier, but the marks of decline and how can we, or can we arrest our decline?

Is there something inevitable about this decline? No. And if you look at the revival of 1857, for example, in the United States and how it began, too many of us, even conservatives and Christians, are looking to politicians to deliver us. But in the 1857 revival, it began when two men decided to meet together on their lunch hour once a week to pray for revival. In New York. In New York City.

Wow. And then other men joined them. And then their little room became too small, and so they went to the churches at night and invited their spouses. Jay Edwin-Or writes about this in his book, The History of Revivals in America. And when the revival broke out, 10,000 people a week were getting converted in New York City alone. When the revival went down the Appalachians and reached West Virginia in the middle of winter, they cut holes in the ice to baptize people, prompting one commentator to say, you know, when Baptists do that, you know they're on fire. The revival went to Wales, and there was a work slowdown, and somebody asked, well, how could there be a work slowdown when there is a revival? And the answer was, so many coal miners were being converted, they stopped using bad language, and the horses couldn't understand what was being said. Now, I have heard that, and I think that there's some truth to that. This gets to the main point, right? Is that when you are talking about the fall of empire,

and superpowers, what I always want to say, I always want to object and say, but, but, but, every one of these empires and superpowers didn't have something that we today do have. There is something unique about America. There is, I would argue, something exceptional about America, which makes it possible for us to avoid the fate of these previous empires, and you've just put your finger on it. Well, nations will rise against nations and look at the prophecies of Daniel and what Jesus said and what John wrote in Revelation. I looked up in a concordance, the United States of America, and it's not in scripture. Yes, we are exceptional in some ways, but we've been living, Eric, off of the inertia of the greatest generation in World War II.

These are people whose values and virtues were passed down to them by their parents and grandparents, and they tried to pass them down to us. us, but they got lost somewhere in the 60s. These things have to be renewed by every generation like a library book or they expire. And my argument in the book is that they're not being renewed right now. We are self-indulgent. We are materialistic. We are in an anything-goes culture. Cole Porter wrote this great song in the 30s. In olden days, a glimpse of stocking was looked on as something shocking. Now heaven knows anything goes. And that was the 30s. That's right. And it was a satire then. Now it could be an editorial. in our times.

Well, what you're talking about, as you know, I wrote a book called If You Can Keep It, which effectively says exactly the same thing. If we don't understand how this wonderful country and the freedoms we have operate, and if we don't teach it to the next generation, and if we don't act upon it, it goes away. And so you're quite right that it has an expiration date and it has to be renewed like a library book. I do have a hope that we can and will renew it, but I only think it's because of conversations like the one you and I are having it, like books like the one that you've written.

It will not happen by itself. No, it will. But let me refer something back to what Barbara Bush said some years ago in an address of all things at Wellesley College, where they tried to disinvite her because they said she was only famous because of her husband. So Barbara being very wise woman, said, well, I'll bring Rice of Gorbachev along with me. Oh, oh, fine. Well, that's somebody we can respect. I'm not making enough. But she said, men and women, if you have children, they must come first. Our success is a nation. Your success as a

family depends less on what happens in the White House and more on what happens in your house. So you ask about hope for the future. I think the first thing that we need to do is get our children out of these re-education camps where they're taught that they evolve from slime. Their nearest relative is down at the zoo, and that's why they like bananas on their cereal. They don't teach civics. They don't teach the Constitution. You've got the birth control things handed out without parental knowledge or permission in the counselors, the school, nurse office. It's all, and then you send your kids off to these universities if they survive the public schools. Not all of them, but a lot of them. And they come back as intellectual and spiritual zombies because their faith has been dissected by secular professors. Why would you do that? We don't send our troops over to the enemy's side to be trained, but we will not. throw our kids into these dens of iniquity and expect them to come out with something else. Well, you're saying everything that I say all the time, except slightly more eloquently, and I appreciate that. It's one of the reasons I wanted to have you on here,

because really you and I see something that we know is not subjective. We know that if you take the narrative, the biblical narrative, out, and you start telling people what you just said that, you know, you evolved via random mutations out of the primordial soup. Therefore, we don't usually have the guts to say it, but we're implying that, therefore, your life is entirely meaningless. We don't say that because to say that, it would be like saying the word you shouldn't say. But when you imply that, you lead people down a path that that brings us to where we are now. There's utter hopelessness. That leads to abortion. That leads to the pressure now, which is coming on medical care,

where the elderly, the sick, the unfortunate, the unwanted, the handicapped, will easily be disposed of. You have assisted suicide now in several states with doctors who had taken a Hippocratic Oath, never to take a life, willingly participating. It always starts at the extremes. Remember, we were going to have abortion only because of rape and incest. And now it's on demand,

and you look at the Democratic presidential candidates. Pete Buttigieg got this question in Iowa. From a woman who claims she was a pro-life Democrat, is the room for me in the party, she asked. And he said basically no. And they're all for abortion up to the moment of live birth. And some, like Governor of Virginia, Northam, says that if the baby is born and the woman decides after the baby is born

that she doesn't really want it, the child should be put aside and basically allowed to expire. This is where the secular progressive left is today. And this is the big choice that we're facing in our elections, in our culture, in our society, because I would argue too many of us have abandoned God. Well, there is no question about that. Solzhenitsyn, the great prophet and writer Alexander Solzhenitsyn in his address to the Harvard at Harvard graduation in 1978 said that. He said, man has forgotten God. And his most famous quotes are Russian proverbs, right? That was a Russian proverb. His other quote was one word of truth outweighs the way. world, another Russian proverb. But the point is that what he said is simply true. And when you acknowledge that, you start seeing everywhere the ramifications. What you have just said is it's absolutely inevitable. And so I think that we, you and I and anyone else, we have to be more bold

in saying it's quite simple. There is no way to prosper, to flourish, to be free without God at the center. It doesn't mean we're going to be able to enforce our view of God, but there is simply no way in history that this has ever succeeded. Well, the founders knew this, even though not all of them were believers as we are. Some were dais and free thinkers. But the philosophical foundation of the Constitution is the Declaration of Independence. And when Thomas Jefferson wrote that all men are created, not evolved, equal, and are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, and among these are the life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, the next clause, he gives the purpose of government. And to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men. Well, to secure what

rights? The rights that God has endowed. Why is that necessary? Because, as James Madison argued, if men were angels, we would not need government. But men are not angels. Men are sinners. And they need to be constrained either by the power of God within them or restrained by the power of the state acting under God, very important. Otherwise, it's a dictatorship and responsible and accountable to God. Otherwise, we're left to our own devices. And we've seen where that leads in history. Well, that's, it's so true. And I think I've, you know, as you get older, things become clearer and clearer. And it's become clear to me quite recently how basic this is and how we need to assert it. We need to assert that there really is no other way. We say it lovingly. We say it

humbly. But if you care about people, you have to take this seriously. We're going to go to a break, folks. We've got plenty more time with Cal Thomas. The new book. It's a small book. You can read it. Don't be afraid. It's called America's Expiration Date by Cal Thomas. We'll be right back. Christian bestselling author and speaker Richard E. Simmons does not shy away from the big questions of life. His latest book is called Reflections on the Existence of God and it tackles the biggest question of all, does God exist? I've read this book and I got to tell you, I'm a little biased, but you can imagine that I like it a lot because Simmons offers insights for those grappling with life's biggest questions. Where do we find?

meaning in life? Who determines what is evil? Can we be moral without God? Does God even exist? Former White House aide Wallace Henley says, I've taught apologetics for many years and I've read every scholar mentioned in this book. Of all the books on apologetics, Simmons is the best I have ever read. This book is easy to read because it's divided into a series of brief essays perfect for a devotional or discussion with a friend. I highly recommend that you add a copy of reflections on the existence of God to your pandemic reading list. Simmons asked questions that speak directly to one of the most important things you possess your worldview. Folks, you know how important this is to me. Your worldview is going to impact the way you live your life for better or for worse. If you want to challenge yourself to spiritual and

intellectual growth, and I hope you do, then be willing to ask yourself life's toughest questions. Dive in today by picking up a copy of reflections on the existence of God right now. Go to existence of godbook.com. That's existence of godbook.com. This is why people don't have rhythm. Speak for yourself. Hey folks. I also was once a boogie singer in a rock and roll band, but we don't have time to go into that now because I've got Cal Thomas in the studio.

The book is called America's expiration date, the fall of empires and superpowers in the future of the United States. Cal, I submit to you that it is inevitable that in this country we will either understand the ideas in this book, and in my book, if you can keep it, which ideas are all basic to what it means to be an American, or we will expire. And we are in the process of expiring. It makes me happy when I think that friends like you and Oz Guinness are writing these kinds of books, because there is hope. There are people in America who get this, but we have to be bolder about it. And when you say that, what Chuck Colson said, that, what do you say? The kingdom of God is not going to arrive aboard.

Air Force One. Okay. Now, it's one thing to say then. I think it's very popular in Christian circles to say, which I often do, that we are not to make an idol of politics. Neither, however, are we to ignore politics? Because what you just said, when Pete Buttigieg is asked, is there room in this party, in the Democratic Party, for somebody who believes in the sanctity of life and the woman, he says no. He's simply repeating what all the other candidates have said. At that point, I think you have to be logical and say, even though I don't worship a party or I don't. expect salvation to come through victory at the polls. Nonetheless, those things matter. Well, of course they do. But look, Eric, you have to first go back to the first principles or the diagnosis of how did we get to abortion on demand. How did we get to same-sex marriage? How did we get to all of these other things? These are not the cause of our decadence. They're a reflection of it. You don't start killing babies in the womb until you have lost the notion of the sacredness of human life. And you lose the sacredness of human life notion

when you forget the author of life. All of these things are connected. Marriage is a gift from God between a man and a woman. But if you've forgotten God, then anything goes. Any kind of relationship. You know, Mitt Romney, God bless him, was mocked when he ran for president when he talked about the inevitability of where we are headed.

He said, why can't a human marry their pet, for example. Well, everybody laughed, and he was mocked on the editorial pages, but they never answered his question. Why not? Who's going to say no to anything? And based on what? So we have to look at the flow of history and the flow of what happens and the consequences of what happens when we forget God. Moses warned against this. Jesus warned not to forget God. The scriptures are loaded of what happens to people and nations who forget God. People, I think, in America, this is the downservous. of the American character is that we are tolerant and friendly, but the downside is when we are unwilling to speak the truth because we're afraid that somebody will cock an eyebrow and look

funnily at us. But I think that we've come to a point where the darkness of where we're going is so dramatic and so clear that we really do have to speak up. And it's why I say more and more, there is no other way but to acknowledge God. He really is. the hope for everyone. And anybody who has a mistaken idea of God, they need to stop and say, maybe I've picked up some bad ideas about who God is. Because if he really loves me and he really died for me and he really is the author of me and all of humanity, I should certainly try to understand what he's saying for me. Two things about that. First of all, you say about the cocked eyebrow and the rest. Look at Canada. It's worse than the cocked eyebrow. They now have laws which can punish

preachers for preaching things that scriptures say about human relationships, about human life, because it goes against the spirit of the age. So that could be our future very easily if certain politicians get back in power. Okay. Well, that's exactly the point. So you can't say, forget about politics. No, I never have. Because this president, God bless him, has appointed originalists to the Supreme Court. Now, folks, if you want to be free in America and you want to even get a shot to try to bring about revival and that kind of thing. It certainly helps to have people in Supreme Court who believe in what the Constitution teaches, and we have not had that.

And we've had many people, everybody running on the Democratic side today is in the camp that is at war with an originalist understanding of the Constitution. Cal, that's dramatic. Well, it's not only, look, you're not always safe when you elect a Republican president either. I never said that. I know that. But you have to be careful. I mean, Ronald Reagan gave us Sanders.

Day O'Connor and Anthony Kennedy. He should have had Robert Bork there first, but, you know, he chose to go. I know what that's 10,000 years ago today. But I can go on. George H.W. Bush gave us David Souter. Yeah. One of the great disasters. You know, any woman could have told you that he was a bad choice. You know, why? Because he was in his 50s and still living with his mother. Ow! Hey, but I want to tell you. Bidding. Yeah. So it's not always, as they say, in the cliche, a slam dunk. Yeah. But you're right. I mean, Donald Trump has given us more originalists, more federal judges, on the courts who believe in the Constitution than any other president, probably in history. And he is to be praised for that and thank for that. Taxes are cut.

We need to reduce the spending because that's where the real deficit comes from. It seems to me that the budget that he put forward a few days ago does pretty dramatically reduce spending. Well, over 15 years, but, you know, he'll be gone and what, whatever. We don't think that it's possible to elect people in the mold of Mr. Trump. The only bipartisan thing that happens in Washington, D.C. is spending. And the House has to go along with us because all spending originates in the House. They're not going to pass the budget as written.

They're going to load it up with a lot of other stuff. They're going to cut stuff. And then he'll be forced to sign it in the end because of the threat of a government shutdown. Right. Well, you know, shut it down. Shut it down. Who cares? Well, then they go to the parks and then they'll find some little old lady who's not getting her social security check.

All right. Well, now you're being, but you're being a little cynical. We've got to believe that if folks like you and I continue to speak about this, that people in Washington have to take notice. We're going to go to a break. We'll be right back final segment with Cal Thomas. Hey there, folks. If it's not Jesus knocking at the door, don't answer. You're under no obligation to answer the door.

I'm talking to Cal Thomas. His book is America's expiration date. It is yet another book that I recommend very highly because it contains, I would say the formula for success in terms of freedom, the American experiment, we must keep the flame of liberty alive and it is going out. So, Cal, what is it that we, the people in America can do? Well, we have to start with ourselves, Eric. Again, as I mentioned earlier, where we put our kids, what kind of education we're giving them.

And then personal responsibility and accountability seems to have been lost in this country. My financial advisor has written that there is a record low number of people in the United States who are ready for retirement. They have virtually no savings or savings so low that they cannot sustain themselves over the longer lifespans that we are now living. Many of them are counting on Social Security, which is, you know, basically was instituted. to be a safety net, not a hammock. You can't live off social security and retirement in the United States anymore unless you're living in a cave somewhere. So I think we have to stop looking to others and look more to ourselves.

We have to save. We have to invest wisely. We have to be responsible. Don't pay attention to what the marketers are saying about all the stuff you need to buy, the more expensive this and that. It's been my experience that the fastest growing industry in America is public storage units. Now think about this for a minute. There's not enough room at our attics or basement for all the stuff we've accumulated in our lives.

So now we have to rent a storage unit to store all of the stuff. For what? For the estate sale? I don't know. But just think about that. I mean, my parents and grandparents, who lived through the Great Depression and World War II, managed to do with what they had, managed to be satisfied with what they had. They had a roof over their head.

They had indoor plumbing. They had food on the table. They had clothes on their back. They had one car, maybe. and they were perfectly satisfied with that. But when the marketers came along and said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You need more.

And why do you need more? Because more will make you happy. Well, we have more than ever. Are we happier than ever? No. It seems to be gone from mourning in America to M-O-U-R-N-I-G in America. If you listen to the liberal Democratic presidential candidates,

everything's a mess. People are starving to death. Children are being abandoned. And it's all baloney. But this is the great sense. subtle thing. The first thing we learn about Satan is not that he's evil, but that he's crafty or subtle. So he tempts to more stuff, more pleasure and the right. Well, actually, you know, speaking about the Democratic candidates, also what they're selling is the government, if you elect

me, the government will solve your problems. The government will give you everything you need. That is a dark, harmful lie. If you begin to think that the government can solve your problems, that the government will pay your debts, your college debts, the government will give you what you need to live to 140, the government will get. I mean, that is why we are in the dramatic hole that we're in, I mean, morally and fiscally. Yeah, it's kind of a cultish thing. Government has become God. It's a perversion of the 23rd Psalm. The government is my keeper, I shall not want. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of poverty, the health and human services department will be there, comforting me with welfare payments in AFDC.

You know, you're good. You're ready to go professional. That's my sense. I just said you should make the leap. Don't be afraid. The book is titled America's expiration date. Now, you go back in here and you show us, and this is dramatic to me, that you can show, it's very clear that these previous empires and superpowers have all followed the same pattern. When you get more than two or three, you think, wow, this seems like an axiom, a law, a theorem. There's no doubt. that if you follow this path, this will be the result. Well, we have this in every other area of life, whether it's how automobiles operate or read the instructions on whatever it is that you're buying. If you don't follow the instructions, then the product you're buying is not going to work. But only in this area do we ignore history and think that it's going to turn out differently. I mean, Rome is classic. Rise and fall of the Roman Empire is a classic work.

I don't pretend to do better than Mr. Gibbon did. But one of the things I found was that Rome had this equivalent of Las Vegas. You think Las Vegas is Sin City. You ought to read up on one of these places that a lot of the leaders went for licentious behavior, random sex, these bathhouses and everything. And, you know, it's a cliche, Nero-fittled while Rome burned, not so far out of reality. But that's what it is.

and when you lose the sense of God, I mean, Lincoln warned against this. Abraham Lincoln said, if the United States is ever to expire, it's not going to be from an invading army. We're going to destroy ourselves from within. Now, he was just following what scripture says. Right. Well, that's exactly, I learned this originally from our mutual friend, Oz Guinness. He wrote a book called A Free People's Suicide. And it was so clear in there that it made me want to write my book, if you can keep it.

And your book is in that line that we're saying things that are not avoidable. In other words, you can look away, but there is no way around it. There is no other way to get prosperity and flourishing and to continue freedom. There is no way. And I would say, don't do it for America or for yourself. Do it for somebody in a country today that has no freedom. They're looking to America to spread this idea. We've been spreading it for nearly two and a half centuries.

We've had the largesse, the wealth to be able to spread it. And if we lose that, as you say, from suicide, what happens to the rest of the world? Well, Eric, I think we need to get off defense, we being those who are followers of Jesus and conservative in our politics. We've been too busy trying to defend ourselves against the accusations of the left, that we're racist, that we don't care about the poor, that were intolerant and all these other things. I think we need to turn this around and say, okay, when you've been in charge of government, you've spent this, you've done this, you've affirmed that, how come things aren't better? We spend a record amount per capita, for example, on public education in this country.

I think Betsy DeVos, the Secretary of Education, told me the other day on an interview, over a trillion dollars. And yet the achievement gap in math and science, especially in the United States, States when compared to many other countries, China, especially, is still very wide. Well, how much more are we going to spend, we should ask them, before we can close the gap? If money and achievement were related, we've had national merit scholars coming out of our ears. We're going to a break. We'll be right back for a final segment with Cal Thomas.

Hey there, folks. I'm sitting with Cal Thomas, the author of America's expiration date, the fall of empires and superpowers and the future of the United States, a very, readable book. Will history repeat itself in America fail? I hope everybody listening will get a copy of the book. We'll read it and we'll live out what you talk about in it, Cal, because again, to me, this is not optional. And by the way, thank you for wearing a tie. I know that you normally you're a very, very sloppy, unkempt fellow. Slavily. People say slovenly. And I just want to say thank you for respecting the institution of this program and putting out a tie. I thought slavily was a country in Europe. Thank you. So you have always spoken. You tell the truth, but there's hope because you believe in Jesus as I do. So what is your sense about the possibility of revival in America?

Well, it's always a possibility, Eric. We've had three of them in this country. I mentioned earlier the 1857 one. That was the biggest of all. But the key to it is to ask God to revive us, not for the purpose of a better stock market or a promotion or whatever, but to glorify God. This is how all. of the other revivals have taken place. When God is glorified, when He is put first, when his glory and power and wisdom and authority are put ahead of all earthly kingdoms, then he often responds. Now, I don't know, you know, it's not a formula. It's not something that you do this, this, and this, and revival will come. But we have to seek his face as individuals and as a nation. But it starts with the individual. You know, you look at scripture, and you look at how the power of God is revealed. Widows might, mustard seed, last place of the table, washing of feet,

those who would be a leader among you must first be your servant. When I'm weak, then I'm strong. Humble yourself under the mighty hand of God, and he will exalt you in due time if you faint not. Those who wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength, mount up with wings as eagles, run and not be weary walk and not faint. Over and over and over, because we're stupid and we don't listen, God repeats, you want my power, this is how you get it.

You know, when the disciples says, can we sit at your right hand? They say, well, that's my father's will. See, we always put ourselves first, but when we put the Lord first, then some wonderful, powerful things can happen. They certainly happen in our individual lives, and they can happen in our national life. And I can attest to that, and I know you can, and I ought to say that more frequently, that in almost every single blessing that has come my way has not come through any doing of my own. It always comes.

I humble myself and I say, Lord, thy will be done. It's the only way to fly. I say this as dramatically and strongly as I can to anybody listening, that what we're saying, it's not a formula. It is fact. It's like saying one plus one equals two. If you go with that, you can't go wrong. What we're saying works for everybody. Well, I have engraved on the back of my watch, my favorite verse along these lines.

1 Samuel 2.30, He who honors me, I will honor. I believe that will all my heart. I believe that God gave me this platform as a syndicated columnist, not to consume upon myself, but as a platform to be a witness to my colleagues. They may not like what I write. They don't believe in the God I believe in, many of them, but they respect, I think, me as a writer and the accomplishment pushing against the spirit of the age. People say, how did you a conservative and a Christian get this kind of platform?

Why did editors welcome you into their liberal newspapers when they oppose everything you stand with? Well, I went out and made friends with them. I went and personally visited them. I joined their organizations. I showed them I don't have horns. I can eat with a fork and a knife, you know? You love your enemies. You love people that disagree with you.

and you are my friend. And I'm grateful for your time. Cal Thomas, the book is America's Expiration Day. Congratulations on the book. And again, thank you for being here. I just want to remind you, we're doing a fundraiser for Angel Tree. Right now, what Angel Tree is doing is they're sending care packages to the families where one of the parents is currently in prison. And for $200 in this care package, $150,000.

is grocery gift cards. You can just imagine how this will bless them by giving to AngelTree. You go to MetaxusTalk.com. Metaxistock.com. I'll give you the phone number 888-206-2793. I know there are lots of folks. Right now you can pick up the phone and give anything folks.