The Eric Metaxas Show - Candace Owens (continued)

Episode Date: April 24, 2020

Candace Owens continues her bunker conversation with Eric, discussing ideas from her new book, "Blackout," and the movement that she founded known as BLEXIT; then, Michael L. Brown talks about Job's faith to challenge God.

Mattacksis Show. Today's show is brought to you by the brothers Karamazov. Not the book. The actual brothers themselves. They love Eric and wanted to support him. So they decided to sponsor the show. Is that not amazing? And Dostoyevsky doesn't know a thing about it. And he invented them. Now your host, Eric Mataxis. Hey there, folks. Welcome to Hour 2 of the Eric Mataxis show. We call it Hour 2 because it's legally mandated. It follows Hour 1. And you know, I like to color side of the lines, but I don't want to go to jail. So this is Hour 2. Okay, folks, I'm talking to Candice. one of my favorite people, Candace, I'm just so grateful to you for making yourself available. I know you're in the middle of like editing a book or something, obviously a book that you wrote.

Do you dare share the title or the idea behind this book? Yeah. So my book is called Blackout and it is subtitled how Black America can make its second escape from a Democrat plantations. My thesis being that, you know, if anything what the Democrats have done was just modernized their same techniques that they used in the time that they had black slaves. pulling all the work for them and at no benefit to themselves. And I really spell that out through various topics, the education system and, you know, black American slaves are not allowed to learn to read when we were slaves. There was laws against it. Even if you were white American during the time of slavery, if you were caught teaching a black person to read, you would be an equal, in equal amounts of trouble. And to today, where you have the states like California where

75% of black boys can't pass a basic literacy exam. the breakdown of family, the systemic breakdown of family, which was necessary to trading slaves and the Democrat policies that have seen a larger breakdown in a Black American family today than in the 1800s. It's astounding stuff. And I'm really just spelling out a thesis to, again, re-educate Black Americans about their history, which has largely been buried by the academia, the left-wing academia, which really, they largely inform a lot of the stuff that were learning in the education system, which is nothing. And really a call to action for all Americans to have the courage to stand up and to say no more to this. Let me ask you, you know, I guess when you know that this stuff is true,

as you do, it's hard not to be angry and vocal about it because I think most people cannot believe that it's true. Most people don't believe that it's true. It can't be true. It's too horrible. And yet we know that it is true. I think that one of the tremendous signs of hope that we have now is your voice and equally shocking, the voice of Kanye West. I mean, who ever dreamt that Kanye West would not only think for himself, but talk about thinking for himself, talk about his Christian faith more boldly than any preacher I've ever heard and talk about thinking for himself politically. I know you have some contact with him or you have, but I mean, that is like a cultural earthquake to me. It's just a stunning thing. Right. And in my opinion, all of that is God. You know, God chooses

the right people who are in various places to do certain things. And, you know, God put me, chose to have me go through a very tough life and through certain experiences to start as a liberal and to come out conservative because it just added weight to the things that I was saying. They couldn't wipe a brush and say, oh, well, she grew up wealthy and like they tend to do to a lot of black Americans that get some sense about what's going on. For Kanye West, he couldn't have been a better space when so much of what has kept black Americans down is a culture, a very bad culture and a culture that is largely controlled by the left. And it's the reason why nobody in Hollywood, which is largely satanic, in my opinion, is allowed to be a

conservative without getting a pink slip. And so I really do believe that there is a spiritual element to all of that and the timing of this at a time where we're at such a critical point in this country could only be something that was ordained by something bigger than all of us. Well, I certainly agree with you. This is God. God is doing this. It's a cultural reset. I mean, nobody could have invented you except God. And boom, here you are. And you're speaking, as you're speaking and so many people are cheering you on. I actually think that the left is scared to death of you, of Kanye. It's like their worst nightmare that people like you for many reasons, not just that you're

black, but there's something about your personality, the way you talk. It's different than, you know, there has always been a smattering of black conservatives. but you speak with a fire, and Kanye does as well. And I'm really convinced that the Democrats are really freaked out at the whole Blacksit movement. Right. Absolutely they are. And, you know, for them, the difference, and I always talk about this between people like Kanye or people like me or people that seem to be, you know, having more success in waking black

Americans up. It's not an intellectual difference. There are people that are way smarter than us, Condoleezza Rice, Clarence Thomas, Thomas Soul, Walter Williams, these are people that have really given me my education. But, you know, what they lacked was an element of courage. And what I mean by that is that when, and I've spoken to Dr. Ben Carson about this,

but these people are, they are polite. And when somebody calls them an Uncle Tom or a Coon, they don't engage. And I think for me, it's the exact opposite, where I rise to the challenge. You know, I won't be called, you call me Uncle Tom. I call you a slave, right? And then they get angry because they've always had so much control. where they could call people names and they never got it back.

So part of that is really just giving it as good as you get it. That's so interesting. I think that it has something to do with your age and Kanye's age, you know, that there are different generations that respond in different ways. But your willingness to fight back. I mean, obviously this president has that. I just find it funny in a way because when people, are not used to that. I mean, when people talk about, you know, Trump causing whatever it is,

a vulgarization of the cultural conversation or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I realize, I actually, no, if people had played nice with him, he would play nice. But when they attack him, he attacks back. And the fact of the matter is that when you call someone a racist or when you, when you say the things that they've said about him in the past, you know, George W. Bush or other people that I have admired, they would not fight back. They would think it's not the gentlemanly thing to do. But there is a time to fight. And to see people like you and this president willing to fight. And I don't mean fighting dirty, but I mean fighting in the way that we need to fight because we care about those who are suffering, like all the blacks in America who have been lied to. Something happens and you

inspire others to fight. I mean, you have to know that you have inspired. so many other men and women to fight because of your voice. I hope so. And that's what I'm here for. My hope is that I inspire, you know, black Americans to wake up and to stand up to these, this is cultural establishment that hasn't allowed us to say anything to fight back. They call you a name, call them a name back. My hope is that I've given white Americans the courage to respond when somebody arbitrarily

calls them a racist, you know, don't settle for that. You say, ask them more questions, ask them to justify that. That doesn't shut down a conversation. should actually should demand more conversation. I would never let somebody call me something that I'm not. And for too long, we've given into this culture of white guilt, which Shelby Steel does a great job. We has a book about that that I read,

tail in between your legs of how to be a white person, tail in between your legs and how to be a black conservative, when really we need those people to become more dominant forces in culture. Oh, I totally agree. I want to find out, you know, sort of how did you get to be where you are? Where did you grow up? How are you raised? What's your story?

I talk about this a lot in my book, but I was raised in Connecticut, first and foremost, in a really small apartment, Roachyvest Department with my parents and my two sisters and my brother until my grandfather came along and came to our place and said, I don't want my grandbabies to grow up in this circumstance. And he moved us into his more middle class home. My grandfather was raised in a sharecropping farm, you know, had dealt with a real KKK in North Carolina, Fayetteville's where he came up and, you know, he had to lay tobacco out to dry since he was five years old in that sharecropping farm in a high attic. And never in my entire life, has my grandfather ever told me that I couldn't do something because of the color of my skin? He was a part of that generation

that believed in hard work. He doesn't believe in calling white people racist. He believes it was a different time. And he instilled a lot of hard-for conservative values in me. We had to read the Bible every day when I was growing up around the table. And he had all of these rules, crazy rules to me at the time. that I write about in my book, and he would incorporate us into his prayers and we did something wrong. I went through a phase once I moved out of his house in rejecting that, in feeling that conservatism and God and all these things were trying to keep me down. I started drinking a liberal hool-Aid and saw the way that my grandparents raised me to really be a symbol of my prior oppression. And then I had my awakening, and I realized the only thing that ever made me happy. Because it's a radio

show, I'm so sorry. We're going to be right back and I'm going to let you complete all those. thoughts. Folks, do not go away. Hey there, folks, it's the Eric McAxie show. I'm talking to Candice. Owens, Candice, I had to interrupt you before. You were saying something so beautiful about how you were raised. Please continue. Yeah, I mean, I was just saying that then I obviously went through a phase where I accepted the dogma, the education system and believed that those conservative beliefs believed that my upbringing on the Bible and all of those things that my grandparents taught me was

a sign of being oppressed and then went a very liberal route and was absolutely. absolutely miserable. And I woke up one day and had to make a decision and it was really inspired by my grandmother's untimely death that all she ever wanted to do and to see was us happy. And I woke up one day and made a decision that I wanted to be where I was raised to be. And I chose conservatism and my whole life changed and everything got better. And I realized that these values and these beliefs and there is difference between right and wrong and what we're fighting right now are traditional conservative values that are raised in the home versus this liberal, secular values that happen outside of the home. And these two concepts at war break down in a lot of ways.

But it also transpires the argument between liberty and versus tyranny. And it's all related to one another. And I wanted to be a voice for so many people that were like me. Okay. So now your new book, it's called Blackout? Correct. And you're telling me that it is available. People can buy it now.

Yes, they can buy it. And it was supposed to come out this week. but because of coronavirus, everybody's books got pushed because you can't promote a book and go on a media tour when you can't go into the airport. So we're hoping that it will be able to come out once this everybody's schedule is sliding. Right now, they're hoping end of August. But it really depends on when we get back to work. And I hope it comes out.

I'm actually adding a chapter to it because I have so much time right now. That's a good thing. Chapter is called On Faith. On Faith. Yeah, kind of important. I never understood the connection between faith. and freedom until a few years ago. And I wrote about it in my book, if you can keep it.

But I realized, like, nobody really understands this. The global elites don't talk about this. They don't understand all the principles that you and I have come to understand and you get so passionate about them. I want to talk about no safe spaces because my friend Dennis Prager put together this incredible film.

And it has been effectively de-platformed Amazon Prime and Netflix refused to carry it, which is insane. But you are in the film. Tell us about it. Yeah, you know, for my portion in the film, there's a lot of blood are in it. It was just taking people on the journey of what it's like to go onto a college campus, and people think that these college campuses are supposed to be where people experiment with ideas.

And it's not. It's a brainwashing, a collective brainwashing, but it's taking place at levels that I think Adolf Hitler and Mao Zedong would be proud of. And it's scary that you can arrive at a campus as a black person and have a bunch of white liberals try to attack you on the basis that they think that you represent racism, right? And this is sort of the social, psychological conditioning that's taking place at these totalitarian camps that are considered to be safe spaces against ideas that will make people help happy and have value in their life. So it was incredible to be on,

you know, a whirlwind journey with Charlie Kirk and with Turning Point USA and to really see up close what the school system was doing to people that are supposed to be our future leaders. just looking at the course catalog, parents don't really understand how bad it is when kids are required to take lesbian, gay, social, environmental issues and all of these things that add up to absolutely nothing in terms of being competitive in a global economy.

And so it was my pleasure to be a part of the documentary. It was my pleasure to work with Turning Point USA, and it is still my pleasure to be able to work with Dennis Prager and Prager University. Yeah, well, Dennis Prager and Prager University are doing a lot to change. change the world. Thank the Lord. I mean, it's an amazing thing to see what is happening out there. Sometimes things have to get worse before they get better before people will wake up. And I really

think that's kind of where we've been in a culture. It's why we got Donald Trump because we had eight years of Obama. And I think people finally understood something is very wrong. The America that was a shining light of freedom to the world is going away. And it's why I think people need to see no safe spaces. By the way, they can use the code save 25 and get 25% off. Go to nosafespaces.com. I hope folks will do that. Candace, is this your first book? It is. And I wrote it myself. Everybody else was like, oh, just get up, you know, goes Friday. Everybody else does put your face on it. And I just couldn't do it. I didn't even let them pick the title. I mean, the cover of the book I was even crazy about. I can be quite a tough creative in terms of wanting things to

really be me. And I think that people that have followed me and gotten me to this point, they know my voice, they know my ideas, and anything else would just be fraudulent, just slap my face on a book and say buy it. So it has been a labor of love. I don't know that I will ever do it again. It's been very difficult. But Simon and Chester have been wonderful. My publisher has been wonderful. And they've allowed me to be the creative, crazy that I am and push back and fight with them the whole time. Wow. I love that. I think in order to sell books next time. I'm going to demand that your face is on my book. I'm going to make that decision. Obviously, I write books. Writing about oneself, which I have just done, is harder than writing about

anything, I think. There's just something about it to be objective when you're writing about something that's inherently subjective. It's just, it's weird. So you talk about your life story and you talk about your ideas in the book, correct? Right. Yeah. So I just wanted to give you. people the background of who I am because they haven't really spoken much about my personal life. So that's sort of in the beginning. And then we sort of go into how just really my personal life, which is largely anecdotal, sort of transformed me into realizing things that are not anecdotal and that are factual and are things that you can research. And again, you know, they'll see a lot of the ideas that have been espoused by some of the greatest black thinkers alive.

And because I do consider them to be my professors just reading their books. I learned more reading Thomas Soul books and Walter Rohn's books and Shelby Steel books, and I learned throughout my entire public education system and college. And that's sad, but it's true. And I hope that I can give to people the gift that they gave to me. Well, that's so wonderful. Also, what's interesting to me, which I've rarely talked about, but what I find interesting demographically and why I think the Democratic Party is really scared is that most blacks in America are either, are seriously Christian or culturally Christian so that they basically get stuff that the Democrats have chosen over the last couple of decades to ignore. So the Democrats treat blacks like,

you know, we know you've got your vote and we're not going to do anything for you. I think the Republicans treated white evangelicals exactly that way. Like, where are you going to go? You know, you're not going to vote for the, for the socialists and stuff. And so we're seeing a huge shift right now. And I think because of voices like yours, and obviously I mentioned Kanye, there are more and more people willing to say what needs to be said. Even the subtitle. Tell us the subtitle of your book again. How Black America Can Make It Second Escape from a Democrat Plantations.

Wow. That's just an amazing. It's an amazing subtitle. Blackout, how, say it again, how. How Black America can make its second escape from a Democrat. plantations. All right. Well, first of all, you're telling me this book is available today.

So today, people are going to watch this video. They're going to hear us. They're going to go, I guess, wherever they go to Barnes & Noble or Amazon.com, or wherever fine tobacco products are sold, and they're going to buy this book. And when this lunacy is over, I want to make sure that we get you in the studio and promote this book more because I really do think it's vital that more people are, you know, open to hearing the truth because what you're telling us is the truth. I mean, was there any level at which you were shocked when you began to discover this history that you write about?

Absolutely. I mean, any person that was a black liberal their whole lives and then suddenly a change to a black conservative goes through a period of cognitive dissonance and you believe you're either going crazy, which I thought I was legitimately going crazy, that everyone who I thought were racist and Republicans and all this stuff actually had your best interest at heart. and wanted to give you a fair chance in society. It's hard to hold on to your sanity when you go through it. And then that after you think you're going crazy, you develop this rage and you're angry. And you just kind of want to blow fire on everything.

I always say, I didn't just, I don't just want to leave the plantation. I want to burn it down. And then you sort of get into a different space where you go through all those stages of grief, and then you accept it. And that's where I'm at now, where I've accepted the condition that we're in. And I'm willing to go out and to have that. every and to promote these ideas and to hope that I can bring more black people into this light because what I am what it is it's really a light it's a dark tunnel and then suddenly you're in a light and I talk

about that and Plato's alibory of the cave in my book a bit too and really the reaction once you're come out of a cave is like ah no sunlight I want to go back in the cave you want to retreat because it's safe you're comfortable with the darkness but the light is the light well speaking of light you know I'm glad that your Christian faith is important to you the reason I say it is that I bumped into a lot of fire brand conservatives who don't have a strong faith. And I want to say to them, you're going to need to lean on Jesus because you will be persecuted. You will go through trials. If you don't lean on God and know where your strength comes from, know where your courage comes from, know where truth comes from, you risk, you know, going down. And, you know, we've seen that

happen. So I just want to thank God that he has given you that kind of a fate so that you know where all this good stuff comes from. It kills me to be at a time. Candice Owens, God bless you. We will continue the conversation. The book is blackout. I hope a lot of people get a copy. And to be continued, we will catch you when this bunker stuff is over. Thanks again. Thank you so much. Hey, folks, I challenge you to think of at least one thing you no longer do that you wish you could. Do you miss like playing golf, maybe long walks with your spouse, sleeping through the night? Are you ready to start living without pain?

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George Whitfield, William Booth, George Washington Carver, Sergeant Alvin York, Alexander Solzhenitson, and Billy Graham. Each of these men have the courage to surrender themselves to a higher purpose for the sake of others. Become acquainted with these seven incredible heroes and your life will be immeasurably richer. Order your copy of Seven More Men Today. For more info, go to my website, Eric Mataxis.com. Eric Mattaxas show. I would like to ride in your beautiful balloon. We'll talk about that after the show. I am sitting here with my friend, Dr. Michael Brown. Michael, you write books often. And you have a new book out. Anytime you're in New York, I just want to get you in the studio here. So you have a new book out called Job, the faith to challenge God. A new translation and commentary.

What's this all about? Yeah, so I've had a lifelong fascination with the book of Job. As a new believer, when I started reading the Bible, in 16, 17 years old. I remember, you know, the opening chapters in Job and the test of faith on, that was unbelievable. And then he would say something, I'd say, amen. And then I'd read the friends. And they'd say something. It's like,

well, I agree with that. And then Job would, and what? I couldn't figure out who was right. And then another friend speaks at length at the end. And then God speaks in what was God's point. The book was amazing. So for many

years, I would teach on different aspects of it. And some years back, probably close to a decade ago, I was doing a class on Job at a seminary where I serve as an adjunct professor for grad students. And we dug in, and I became so obsessed. I thought I've got to write a commentary on the book of Job. So worked it out with Hendricks and publishers to do it as an independent commentary. So it's not part of a series. But I finished the whole thing. And it was just right for me. And at the end, the publisher said, you know, you're writing for two audiences. You're writing for an academic audience and for a popular audience.

And that worked for me because I'm in both of those worlds. You and I are a little bit like that, right? And they said you're going to have to choose one or the others. So I redid the whole thing. And what I did is I took all the scholarship behind it. I made a brand new translation of the book. But I did it in a way that any serious student of the word can dig in. And then I add it like 150 plus pages of reflections at the end.

you know, Job and the new atheists and is suffering a reward for righteousness. Okay, so this is a book about the book of Job, which happens to have a new translation. No, no, it's a full commentary. It's a 350 plus page commentary with new translation plus theological reflections and essays in the back. So it really, you know, who was the Satan in the book of Job? And what about, you know, the subtitle, the faith to challenge God, challenging God as an act of faith in Job. And here, maybe the most surprising thing at the end of the book,

Job 42-7, after Job has repented, and God's rebuked him soundly, and he's repented. Then God says, I'm angry with Eliphaz and the friends, because they did not speak rightly about me as my servant Job did. He calls him my servant three times and says, Job spoke rightly about me. And the Orthodox guys, the ones who were defecutive, defending God and who are saying, well, if you're suffering, it's obviously because you're wicked,

and God blesses the righteous and punishes the wicked. So obviously there's something wicked here going on. And Job was saying, God, you're a tyrant. If that's who you are, you're behind all the evil and I mean, he's lashing out at God in the midst of his pain. And at the end of the book, God says, Job spoke rightly about me and the other friends didn't. How in the world is that? So I open that up. I talk about the dangers of holding to a too rigid orthodoxy. And what I really tried to do was take the raw power and spirit of Job and bring it to the reader. And I also say, look, even though Job is humbled at the end and realizes that he shouldn't have spoken against God, that he was completely out of turn. I mean, in that close, we're closer to a worm.

And if you want to compare, we're closer to a worm in terms of what we understand than we are to God and his perfection, right? Who are we to tell him how to run? his universe and yet there's something in the book saying it's okay if you go through this it's okay if you have the anger and the frustration and think there's something wrong with god just ride it out until the end because in the end god means things for good well see this is why honesty is so beautiful in other words god if he sees us like let's say we're angry with him or we're weeping and we're challenging him that can come from a beautiful place of faith and and in the book of job obviously that's what you see, that this man has suffered so that his faith is deeper than the faith of these

theologically orthodox friends, which is really at the heart of Scripture, isn't it? I mean, you see this with Jesus and the Pharisees, you see this, that God always wants to go a little deeper than the theological orthodoxy. It's kind of weird to say it that way. So there is truth in the orthodoxy, right? And Scripture affirms that, but there is a rigidity where we're, where, we can't see anything that doesn't fit our nice little categories. And that which causes us to not look through eyes of love at someone, we just put them

in doctrinal categories. And even though Job went too far, and Job did rail against God in ways that God rebuked him for, at the same time throughout the dialogues that go on, the friends are, Job, you're this, Job, you're this. And Job basically says to the friends, forget it. God, God, he's looking up. There is something in his relationship with God that was deep enough to challenge him. So he goes too far on the one hand.

On the other hand, he knows that if God is really the God that he worshipped, that things should not be the way they were, that something was wrong. And of course, that was the truth. I love it. It's kind of funny because Bonhofer at some point says in every sermon, I try to put a

little shot of heresy. Now, he doesn't really mean that, but he's making a point that that theological orthodoxy can be so rigid, as you put it, that it ceases to be true. It's a real conundrum, and it shows us that God is alive, that when you try to, you know, to get God figured out, he always goes a little beyond what you've put him in these boxes or something like that. So it doesn't mean we take theology, we don't take theology seriously.

But it can only get us so far. At some level, we have to have a personal relationship with the God behind the words. We're going to be right back talking to Michael Brown, the book. I can't wait to see this. Texas show, you can tell by the unbelievable bumper music. I'm sitting here talking to Dr. Michael Brown. Ask Dr. Brown is his website. Ask.org.

That's,org. The new book, Job, The Faith to Challenge God, a new translation and commentary. This sounds like an amazing book, Mike. And in the book, you answer all kinds of questions like challenging, you talk about challenging God as an act of faith. How would Job comfort a sufferer? Who was the Satan in the book of Job? I want to ask you that. Who was the Satan figure in the book of Job?

Because when people talk about Satan, you try to look at scripture, who's Satan. It's a little confusing. People talk about Satan in the book of Job. And I know that that's just the word, Hebrew word, for adversary. But what do you say? Yeah, I translated as the adversary. very close to that is the accuser. So the adversaries seem to be the strong and more general term that's used.

It's interesting that in terms of appearing in a personal way, so we know you've got the snake in the garden, Genesis 3, but doesn't mention Satan overtly there, that he's not mentioned until the later books of the Bible. So he's not mentioned, for example, until the book of Zechariah, the third chapter he's opposing the high priest, Joshua. or he's mentioned in First Chronicles 21-1 that it says that Satan incited David to number Israel. Whereas in 2nd Samuel 24-1, which is an earlier book, what does it say?

It says that the anger of the Lord incited Satan, something written then, excuse me, incited David. Then after the exile, they begin to talk about this figure Satan more openly. Many people think that Job is the oldest book of the Bible. It's not true. The account may be dated back to patriarchal times. The events of the book of Job may go back to say the time of Abraham, and Job is not a Jew. He's really a pre-Israelite righteous man. But I believe the book is written much later, perhaps closer to the exilic period.

And that's why it begins to mention this figure of Satan. So, Hasatan, the adversary, that's who he is. I do believe it's the same one that we know in the New Testament as Satan, the devil. I believe that's the right understanding of it. But he is utterly malignant and utterly malicious. even though the dialogue is short, it's very challenging to God. And God's speaking in very human terms in the second chapter, the third verse, says to Satan, you're inciting me against Job to destroy him without cause.

Later in the book, Job says to God, you're attacking me without cause. And it's actually true because there was not a specific cause in Job that he had done something wrong and the door was open. there was a larger thing that God was going to accomplish through this. And also a picture for all of us that sometimes inexplicable things happen to the righteous, but don't change your view of God. The friends judge Job. The friends thought, you must be a sinner. You're doing something wrong.

It's the classic quoth. Like if you did something wrong, if you're cursed, you deserve it. And that's not the biblical view at all. No. And look, we know that God made a covenant with Israel and said, if you're obedient, you'll be blessed. If you're disobedient as a nation, you'll be cursed. but we know in the overall course of life that there are plenty of wicked people that live long,

healthy lives and plenty of righteous, godly people that are sick or in hospital and things like that. What happened is the friends, because no one understood what was happening behind the scenes with Satan, right? So the friends think, well, Job's suffering like a wicked man. He must be wicked. Right. And even though it's true that Job was not suffering because of his sin, he was sinning because of his suffering. He started to speak in evil ways. when the friends saw that, they nail them. You're guilty. Well, Job, knowing he doesn't deserve this,

his only alternative is to blame God. So Job misjudges God. The friends misjudged Job. We get the picture of what's happening behind the scenes with Hassatan the adversary. But here's something fascinating, Eric. After the second chapter, Satan's not mentioned specifically anymore. In other words, he does what he does, but he ultimately loses. And ultimately, God does something in Job. Yes, he suffers, he loses terribly, but Job now stands for sufferers through the generations. And it says two things. In Job 42, Job confesses, I heard of you with the hearing of the year, but now my eye sees you. I have a relationship with God I never had before. Satan meant it for evil. God meant it for good. And then what does it say that God blessed his acharit, his final end,

more than his reshite, his beginning? So the extraordinary redemptive power of God at work as well. Okay, let me ask you, because we've got only two or so. minutes left. You talk in this book, Job, the faith to challenge God, about Job and the new atheists. How do you relate the book of Job to the so-called new atheists? So the new atheists bring all kinds of charges against God, the famous Richard Dawkins quote that God's a megalomaniacal, pesticidal, genocidal, whatever, you know, misogynist, all these evil things about God. And basically, Job, I pull out quote after quote after quote, Job brings really serious charges against God.

But Job's answer is who God really is. That for Job, the worst nightmare of all and the thing that it would make no sense in the universe is that God doesn't exist. The fact that he had these issues with the way it seemed God was behaving based on his experience, but then realize that there must be justice in God's universe

and there must be a just God behind it. So Job's answer to the new atheist is the worst possible nightmare is there is no God. And the answer to the bad experiences and bad things that make God look bad is ultimately in the end, he'll emerge as good and compassionate and faithful and righteous and just. It's funny because Job is in some ways the most human of all the books in the Bible, right? Like there's something about it that, I mean, there's a poetry there. It's like a Shakespearean play or something.

There's so much going on. It's hard to parse and to look at the way you look at a lot of other. books in the Bible, but it's sort of the most human in the sense of the raw struggle that many of us go with suffering with suffering. And anytime anybody has cheap Christian answers, like, you know, they'll throw a scripture at you or something, you feel like saying, you know what, you don't get it. It's not so simple. God is God. And sometimes we do a great disservice to God when we put on a quick bandage of scripture, because sometimes that's not what is called for. No, and there is a raw power to Job. I tried to convey it in the translation. I wrestled writing it. It's a trial to write,

but the joy, the privilege of going through it and seeing there's no book in history ever written like the book of Job. So I'm thrilled to get a commentary out that your average interested Christian reader, just interested reader, can read Jew and Christian alike. I'm thrilled. And then hopefully bring it together with those essays at the end and let Job speak a fresh. I really, I'm just, I'm so thrilled. that you're my friend, that you're doing what you're doing. Congratulations. The book is Job, the faith to challenge God. I cannot wait to see it. Michael Brown, thank you. Hey there, folks. I don't want to scare you, but I need a haircut badly. If you're watching this on video, you can see that I'm starting to look like Shemp Howard, way too much like Shemp Howard.

And I'm looking more and more like curly. And Chris Heim says nothing. I guess what that makes me Moe, maybe? Or Larry? It'll look like Mo. You look like Curly Joe Dorita. Curly Joe Dorita? Such a pinch. Don't you remember now about in Gustavo?

He played Stinky. Oh, okay. All right. He played stinky. He had one of those, like, kid suits. Like he would dress like, you know, with the all-day sucker. And he dressed like, he dressed like, sorry, what's his name? You know, it's like.

Spanky, Spanky. Fon. No, no, no. It was like the little Lord Fauntleroy. look, the kind of, you know, Buster Brown look. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was a grown man and it was Curly Joe Derrida. And he said, I'm going to give you such a pinch.

Anyway, listen. We're grown men too. We have so many exciting things going on. But I've just got to let my audience know because we're going through a tough time right now, let me make a couple of quick announcements. Number one, if you're not signed up for a newsletter, you have got to go to Eric Mattaxas.com. Please sign up for a newsletter.

Number one, Eric Mataxas.com. Number two, please follow me on Twitter and on Facebook and on Instagram. I'm posting all kinds of wacky videos and things. You got to check it out. Next thing, I got to say, my book Seven More Men, like I think Amazon ran out or something like that. We're going through a weird time. Please order it anyway.

You'll get it as soon as possible. But that's my brand new book that is out. And one of the men in that book is Alexander Solzhenitsyn. Another man is Billy Graham. We have spoken on this program to their sons, Ignat Solzhenitsyn. One of the greatest conversations I've had was with Ignat Solzhenitsyn. We played it the other day. And then the other day we spoke to Franklin Graham.

Really just fantastic interviews. And of course, the sons of two of the men in my new book, Seven More. Man, I also want to say because everybody's going through a tough time right now, you're looking for something to watch on TV. Do not forget, folks, please. Patternsofevidence.com, okay? My friend Tim Mahoney doing amazing stuff. If you want to see a film about the historicity of the Bible,

of the Moses account, all this kind of stuff, Tim Mahoney's been on the program, but now you can go to Patternsofevidence.com, and you will see when you go to Patterns of Evidence.com, it's a great thing to watch with the whole family. Similarly, no safe space is our friend Dennis Frager. I'm just infuriated that Netflix and Amazon Prime have de-platformed No Safe Spaces. This is sick stuff.

So I hope you will support that film. You should see it anyway. You go to no-safaces.com. Use the code. Save 25, and you'll save 25% on that. And before we go, let me finally say that our two major sponsors on this program are Mike Lindell my pillow.com. And then, of course, our friends, Pete and Seth Talbot,

they're the folks behind relief factor, which I ought to say more often I use every single day, and it works. And then, of course, they're behind honorbound coffee, honorbound coffee.com, all their profits go to helping military families. But a word on relief factor, I haven't bragged on that often enough.

I am amazed that it works. And I want to say, because sometimes in the short commercials, you don't get this. The reason the Quick Start Pack is 1995, they take a loss on that because they are banking on the fact that if you order that and take it as they instruct, that if you have pain, the chances are so high that relief factor will help your pain. And these are botanicals, okay? It's not like Poppin Advil or whatever we do. that they're banking on the fact that even at a loss, you will reorder because you'll say this stuff works. So I want to reiterate that that is kind of an amazing thing. That's relief factor. I just want to thank my friends Pete and Seth Talbot. Anyway, thanks for listening and thanks for

patronizing those who patronize us, although we try not to be patronizing. Thank you.