The Eric Metaxas Show - David Benham

Episode Date: June 6, 2024

Friend of the program David Benham joins to discuss what it means to be a man and why masculinity has become taboo. 

Folks, welcome to the Eric Metaxus show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome. If you're looking for the Eric Metaxis show, you've come to the right place. If you're looking for some other radio show, well, go down the road, two stoplights, make a right at the gas station, go past Billy's fruit stand, hard left, and bingo,

another show, a maybe, or you're terribly lost. Hey, why don't you just stay right here? Because you've found Eric Matt, Texas. Welcome to the program. I remain in Georgia. Chris Himes, I believe you're also with me in Georgia. Are you around here someplace? Yeah, I'm looking for a mint julep, maybe some sweet tea.

You know, Georgia is much of it is air conditioned now, which makes it possible to be here. But we're at this private Christian event. It's actually so private. I can't even tell you about it, but it slipped out. But you're at the same event. So, but there's a lot going on at this event. I want to talk about that in just a minute, some real heavy hitters here. But I want to say that in hour one today, we're going to continue our conversation.

on with about the website what makes a man.org as an answer to the preposterous hilarity of Pride Month. The folks at promisekeepers Ken Harrison they've created this thing called what makes a man.org a website is a proclamation on biblical masculinity. We need to reassert the basics because we're living through sheer lunacy and evil. So in a couple of minutes I'm talking to David Benham. David and his brother Jason are amazing human beings. They are some of the boldest Christians. They're twins. And they're identical twins. And they're just about the boldest Christians that I know that they're just wonderful and very funny and fun. And so David Benham is going to be my guest in hour one today. And I'm going to drag him over into hour two if we have the time.

And in hour two, we're going to re-air my conversation with Eric Prince. Hold on to your hat for that conversation with Eric Prince. That's an hour two. Astonishing stuff going on. And it's a joy on this program, really, to bring you hope and to bring you stories that you might not hear about people that you might not hear about. It's why I tell people listen to this program. We bring on some really extraordinary guests and hear some of some extraordinary guests. and hear some extraordinary stories.

And I hope that it gives you hope because that's a big part of what we're about here. And because, you know, you're not going to hear most of the stuff in the mainstream conservative media in a lot of the kind of like limp evangelical world. They don't go here. And that's sad. But hopefully we make up some of that. So tell your friends about the show. I almost never mention it. when people say, how can I listen to the show?

You can, on your phone, if you go to the app store and you put an Eric Mataxis show or Eric Metaxis, an app pops up and you can listen to the show any time because we have so many wonderful guests. So just go to your phone, put in the app, Eric Mataxis show. It'll pop up or you can go to Metaxistalks Talk.com. You can click on it there, Metaxistalk.com. But it's just, it's sometimes frustrating to me. I think I have these tremendous. guests and we want to get it out to you. The other thing you can do is sign up for our newsletter.

Go to Eric Metaxus.com. I'm going to send one out today, actually. Every time we set a newsletter, we've got links to all of the videos and these interviews that we do. A lot of times people say, like, oh, I see your show on TBN every weekend. And I think that's great, but that's just 30 minutes. We're doing hours and hours of amazing interviews that, you know, TVN doesn't have the time to air that stuff. And you're missing a lot of wonderful stuff. So I just want to exhort you. you to go to Eric Mataxis.com, sign up for the newsletter

there. I think you will be blessed. I know you'll be blessed because we just have tons and tons of great, great, great content. Coming up this week, well, I won't even tell you,

but so today we have. I will spoil one thing. Brandon Lake, who's a big, big music star. He's a Grammy winner and a Duff Award winner. You know, kind of a big, big deal.

on the Christian. Brandon Lake, yes. Brandon Lake, okay, since you're spoiling it, we got General Michael Flynn coming up. I had a long conversation with him yesterday, had the privilege of a couple of conversations with him. We can't share many of the details, but we did talk to him.

Well, right. The theme is generally hope for America. Well, I have to say, I mean, he is an incredible hero. And if you haven't seen the film, go to Flynn.com, the movie. You really, you know, I don't say this lightly, you owe it to yourself to know what happened to him,

what they did to him. It's a lot like what they're doing to Trump right now. It is evil forces that hate America, hate freedom, and hate you. Actually, Chris, you know, since we're letting the cat out of the bag, we both of us had a long conversation yesterday with Jim Caviesel. That's true. I believe he plays Jesus in The Chosen.

Am I getting that right? No, no. He was in the Passion movie with Bill Gibson. Oh, the Chosen was Jonathan Rumi. Right, right. I always get them mixed up. No, but seriously, Jim Caviesel was here. He spoke last night.

He is amazing. He's absolutely an amazing individual, a profound man of faith. and we talked to him about Mel Gibson has been working on the sequel to the passion, which I think it's just called resurrection. And that hasn't been filmed yet, but that's definitely happening. So it's exciting. But when you meet somebody like a General Flynn or a Jim Caviesel and you see the depth of their faith, their commitment to truth, it's inspiring.

It's inspiring. And so it's just a wonderful, wonderful. the thing. I also want to mention Socrates Plus, we are now airing or we're putting out there if you subscribe to Socrates Plus, maybe you saw my Socrates in the city event with Mark Helprin, right? That was one of three conversations. I had two more conversations with him that were putting up on Socrates Plus. I think it was put up today or yesterday. There is nobody like Mark Helperin. If you just listen for the entertainment. Unbelievable, but that's now up at Socrates Plus.

You can go, you can sign up at Socrates Plus. I hope everybody listens to this program understands that you want to be a member of Socrates Plus. If you want to get any Socrates merchandise, which I think I talked about last week, it's gorgeous stuff, like amazing, gorgeously designed and gorgeously manufactured stuff. You get a discount if you're a member of Socrates Plus. So I want to mention that. I also should mention two things. Our friends at Americans for Prosperity,

they have a website up called Bidenomics.com. Yes, folks. If you want to know what's happening in the economy or you want to argue with your friends because your friends say, well, I don't think the economy is so bad, send them to bidanomics.com. And think of the joy and the hilarity of the fact

that the folks at Americans for Prosperity, bought the URL, Bidenomics.com, right out from under Joe Biden's nose. And if you go there, you're going to get solid facts about what is happening with our economy.

So I want you to go to Bidenomics.com. You can also go to Prosperityis possible.com. That's their other website. And I should mention before we go to David Benham, and it gets very crazy,

I should mention the Herzog Foundation. You have seen recently with the madness, the satanic evil of Pride Month, and our own government, okay, which is basically unconstitutionally establishing a religion by siding with this view of the human person being pushed by the LGBTQ Alamo P. My name is Legion, you know, grooming organization. Our government is getting behind that. And they're pushing this in schools. The Department of Education is pushing this.

You need to get your kids in Christian schools. You need to homeschool your kids. A way to do that. Go to Herzog Foundation.com. Folks, trust me on this. If you're at all interested in Christ-centered K-12 education, if you're interested in homeschooling, if you're interested in any of this stuff,

and you should be, you better be, you better be, folks, because it's bad. It's real bad in the public schools. I exhort you to go to Herzog Foundation. They will help you. I just thank God that they exist. I thank God that they exist. All right, when we come back, we're talking to our friend David Benham.

In an hour two, we're talking to Eric Prince, amazing stuff. Stick around. For 10 years, Patriot Mobile has been America's only Christian conservative wireless provider. And when I say only, trust me, they're the only one. Glenn and the team have been great supporters of this show, which is why I am proud to partner with them. Patriot Mobile offers dependable nationwide coverage, giving you the ability to access all three major networks,

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You sheltered me from her. The folks, welcome back. It is now my joy to talk to my friend David Bessels. David, has anyone ever told you you look a lot like your twin brother, Jason, and that one of you might be redundant? You are the only person on the planet that has said that we are redundant. No, no, no, no, no, not the two of you. One of you is redundant. No, Jason, that's not saying.

Jason is redundant. I think it's probable. It's probable that Jason is redundant because he just looks so much like you. It's like, come on. Look, you're one of these people. people, well, both the two of you, you know, we've been friends, you've been on the show a bunch times, but I never know how to describe you. So I always describe you with my highest comment that you're like maniacs in the best sense. You are warriors for truth. You really are. I want to talk

about where you got that. You got that from your dad whose name is Flip. It's like my favorite name, Flip, the idea that his name is actually Flip. I want to talk about your dad, but first, How did, you know, if I'm giving you an official introduction, what do I say about you, David Benham, or your brother, Jason Benham? Well, I guess spiritually, I'm a follower of Christ, but I'm also a husband of 25 years to my wife, Lori. I'm a father of five children. Four are now grown and out of the house. I've got one teenager left. I love my country.

I'm deeply patriotic. My grandfather fought in World War II was shot down in the Pacific, so I understand the sacrifice in this nation. and I also see the moral and spiritual decline in this nation. And I've read the book Bonhofer, Amazing Grace, and I kind of like you. But I also, from a professional standpoint, I used to play pro baseball. I got out of baseball. I became an entrepreneur. My brother just kind of coasted onto all of my hard work and discipline.

And by God's grace, the Lord blessed the work of our hands, and we became bestselling authors. And now we travel the country and we speak to Christian. encouraging them to stand boldly for their faith, whatever the cost. Okay. By the way, all of that is true because I know you. And you, David Benham and your brother, Jason, Benham, how can folks find you before we get into the conversation? Because we're going to get into it.

But what is the... Benembrothers.com, B-E-N-H-A-M, and all of our social media is at Ben-M-B-M-B-M-B-M-Rothers. So it's super simple. Ben-M-B-E-N-E-E-N-A-R-E-E-Rothers. B-E-N-H-A-M. Okay, let's get into it, bro. You, just the other day, I don't know if I aired it yesterday.

Ken Harrison, I'm here at this thing in Georgia. Ken Harrison, who's the head of Promise Keepers, is here. And he spoke to me about this proclamation on godly masculinity. There's a website, what makes a man.org. And then I found out you were involved in this. I said, I want to talk to you about this as well. because ladies and gentlemen, in case you're scoring at home, Pride Month is a sick joke. This is not Pride Month.

June is not Pride Month. Some people call it that. They're kind of insane. That would be like the generous interpretation. It's lunacy. And so it's a good time for us to reassert what is actual masculinity, what's God's idea of masculinity? and David, we know we've fallen on hard times when I have to talk to you about masculinity, but let's try.

Well, we're doing it. You know, we've gone a long way in this country the wrong direction when June is the month that our troops hit Normandy and paid the ultimate sacrifice for our freedoms, not so that June could then become an entire month of all kinds of craziness marching through our streets and truly an agenda. that is forcing itself down the throats of even our children. And, you know, we knew when Promise Keepers and when Ken Harrison and Promise Keepers said, let's establish a definition of biblical masculinity because we're losing the idea of masculinity in this culture today.

The only, you know, the problem today is not the presence of darkness. It's the absence of light. And if we don't actually act like men and be strong and courage, just from a spiritual perspective and also an earthly perspective, then we're going to continue to be so open-minded in this country that our brains are literally going to fall out of our heads. And that's what we're seeing today. The lunacy of the immorality that is marching through its streets at first,

the radical agenda to transform morality in this country, it just wanted acceptance. But then it didn't stop there. It then wanted celebration. But it's not stopping there. Now it wants participation. And that's what we're finding. And so promise keepers decided let's establish a definition of masculinity.

Socrates was once famously quoted. He said, if you wish to converse with me, first define your terms. So let's define our terms, right? What is masculinity? It is rooted. God created in the Garden of Eden, God's original design was male and female. They are equal, but different. I don't know about you, Eric, but I am totally different from my wife.

My wife is totally different from me. Well, you know, actually what's interesting, I've never thought of it in just this way. But when you say, there's no way around it. When you define masculinity, there can be no masculinity without femininity. In other words, they are, by definition, complementary. That's C-O-M-P-L-E, not I, complementary. They complement each other. That's by God's design. So you can't even have masculinity apart from femininity. You can't have femininity apart from masculinity. They are complementary.

And that is God's design. He made us male and female in his image. When the two of us unite, we can produce life, the miracle of life. The whole thing is so beautiful. So the idea that we have to reestablish this, that things are so off the rails that we have to talk about this, you know, it kind of tells you where we are. But, David, I mean, you said this earlier. When we originally, I mean, if somebody said to me, you know, whatever, 20 years ago, like, I just want to be left alone to live my gay lifestyle, right? My heart goes out to folks like that, right?

I just think, like, look, I don't agree with you. I don't have same-sex direction. I don't know what it's lived with that. That's difficult. It's a bear. But I could understand somebody saying, just leave me alone, right? Because in America, we say, you know what? If you want to go in your house and eat hot dogs and I prefer it to look hamburgers,

like it doesn't make any difference to me. Like, we're different. I disagree. That's not a moral issue, but there are moral issues. But in America, we still believe that. people, you know, you can raise your kids as Muslims. I don't quit that, but I don't want a law that's going to tell you what food you should eat, what religion you should practice.

We believe in freedom in this country. And so that's how this was presented. This was presented to people like, we just want to live our lives. And many Americans said, well, you know, to some extent, I get that. I don't agree with that. But we have liberty in America. and if you want to raise your kids to be atheist, or if you want to be an atheist in your home or whatever it is,

I can do what I can to persuade you in the public square, but I cannot force you to agree with me. And that is how the gay lobby, because it was the gay lobby, was moving this issue. Next thing you know, it's no longer the gay lobby. Now you have trans lunacy, you have drag queens. It's like openly insane and demonelior. and they have kind of lumped this all in together.

And the reason I'm going off on this is to say that that's how you know what you're dealing with. When somebody lies, they tell you something. So we just, we just want this. And you go, okay. And then they change it. They move the goalpost. They move the goalpost.

They move the goal post. That's how you know from the beginning if you were lied to it. And this is not to say that every gay person that was advocating for this was lying. But the forces behind it were using even the well-meaning game. again, that I don't agree with them. But the point is that you see ultimately what was behind it was not just let us live our lives. It was a game. It was a game.

And you see the same thing, frankly, with radical Islam. Radical Islam says, oh, we just want to come there and just live our lives. Next thing you know, they've taken over Europe. So I say this because it's about discerning the spirit behind it. That's right. The spirit claimed it pretends to be nice, pretends to care about justice, equality. And then you find out lie, lie, lie, lie. All along, they wanted to take over.

But that's the way sin works, even in our own personal lives. It's never content to just stay in one little box, right? It's just a little bit. And then it's more. It intensifies and then begins to extensify. And that's exactly what sin does. It happens to not only individuals, but nations. And so in the,

this battle over the soul of our nations, specifically speaking about our nation, which is why we wanted to define biblical masculinity, but let me pause for a second and say, in this battle, there are two types of people. There are the enslaved and the enslavers. The enslaved are the 99% of people

that you come in contact with and are just enslaved in their sin, just like we once were. And now as we walk with Christ, number one, we've been set free by His salvation, but as we walk with Christ, we can be set free and we can flourish as God intentionally designed us, to flourish. Those are the enslaved people. But then on the other hand, there are the one percenters, and those are the inslavers. Those are the ones who have sold themselves to do the bidding of the devil. Those are the ones who have sold themselves to fight.

We're going to go to a break. When we come back, we're going to be talking more about that, talking to David. Benham folks don't go away. Hey, this is Eric Metaxus. For years, I've told you about Nutrametics, a professional supplement brand trusted by doctors since 1993. Nutrametics offers a variety of health bundles. Whether you want to support your immune system, improve your sleep, promote joint comfort or detoxification support, Nutrametics has a health bundle right for you. The best part about Nutrametics, every year they donate a minimum of 50% of their profits

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That's promo code Eric. 800-9783057.3057 promo code Eric. Or go to MyPillow.com and use promo code Eric. Welcome back. Talk to my friend David Benham. who's the twin brother of Jason Benham, and they look very, very similar. It can get confusing.

You can find them at Benham Brothers. But let's continue. You were talking about the nature of sin, and we are trying to establish that what we're dealing with right now, it's become more and more and more brazen to the point that now you have people, really, the funny thing is, David,

that years ago, people would say, oh, you know, they're coming for your kids. And you go, oh, come on, what are you talking about? Now, the fact of the matter is, many of them were not coming for your kids. Yes, right. But there were enough that really were intent on bringing across an agenda, which is demonic. It is at least deeply, committedly, anti-Biblical, anti-Christian.

And now we're here. Yes. And you're describing that process. Yeah, yeah. So, so if you think about it, you know, we see. that there are the enslaved and the enslaved are just the people that you deal with on a daily basis and they need the gospel of Christ. But then the enslavers are those who have literally sold themselves to do the worst of the devil.

Now, we all say, well, I don't want to get political or whatever. You know, this is not only a political issue. It's a moral issue, but not even that. Ultimately, it's a spiritual issue, which is why it gets worse and worse and worse and worse until they ultimately. It goes, literally, it goes from, they want to marginalize your faith. then they want to demonize your faith and ultimately they want to criminalize your faith. That's the way that it works. It always works that way because it is a spiritual attack.

You saw this in Germany. We see this now here in America. And so what's happening is Jesus, when he talked to the enslaved, like the woman caught in adultery, he said, you without sin cast the first stone as they walk away. He says, where are your accusers? And she says, there are none. He says, neither do I accuse you. And then he draws a line.

go and sin no more. See, he reached out to the enslaved with compassion. Now pause. To the enslavers, those who had sold themselves to do the works of Satan, how did Jesus talk to them? You whitewashed wall, you son of the devil, you empty tombs, right? This is the way in Acts 13, Paul addressed Elmas the magician. He's like, you son of the devil, how long will you continue to make crooked the straight ways of God? You deal with them differently. So to the enslaved, you resist with courage. So to the enslaved, you reach out with compassion. That's everybody that we come in contact with to the most part.

But then to the enslavers, these are those who have taken culture, who have taken positions of power and influence and are indoctrinating children and generations away with the truth that leads to human flourishing, which is why we find ourselves in a position today, like, gay pride month where we have drag queens grown men who are literally in the city of charlotte they are pole dancing at club scorpio on a friday night in front of men doing all kinds of foul perverted things and they are on saturday mid morning reading to our children at the charlotte mecklenburg library for drag queen story hour how does that happen how do we allow that to happen because enslavers have now taken positions of power and here's eric let me give you an example real quick and i'll get to the masculinity thing, but let me just give you an example real quick. You know, traffic in America works, not because everybody agrees on the same thing or drives

the same car or believes the exact same, you know, thing politically or religiously or anything. You can, whatever, it works because everybody agrees on one simple truth. Red means stop, green means go. What would happen if some dude come around and said, no, red means go in my life. and green can stop. Everywhere that man drives, what would come? What would happen? It would be chaos.

Now, what would happen if that person then took power over the traffic laws in the country? And he had this worldview that red means stop, green means, I mean, red means go, green means stop. He would literally wreak havoc on traffic in this country. And that's exactly what we're finding happening in our school systems, in our universities, in media, Hollywood, big government with the Democratic Party, many of the limp-risted Republicans, this is literally what's happening. And so now we're finding ourselves, kids don't even know what a boy is or a girl is, or they do know it.

They know it instinctively, but they're being taught something totally different. And so promise keepers and other ministries have come along and said, we are going to create some clarity for future generations. A man was created by God in the same way he created woman in his image. And he created them to design. They were designed to complement each other, much like what you said. And when we function in our masculinity in a proper biblical way, it leads to supernatural flourishing for women and children. But if we don't do it in a biblical way, then it's going to be the world's way.

And what does the world elevate? greed, power, dominance, control. And that's what the world does. And then the world takes its own invention and calls it toxic. And so this is where we find ourselves. We have to step in. MLK said, and I know you know the quote, Martin Luther King Jr, the church must be reminded that it is neither the master nor the servant of the state.

Rather, it is the conscience of the state. And so this is an opportunity for us as the conscience, believers to say, this is what a man is. This is what a man acts like and this is what a man should not act like. And that's exactly what we're doing at what makesamand.org. And by the way, Martin Luther King Jr. got the phrase, the church is a conscience of the state from Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who obviously lived it. He saw the church refuse to be the church, refused to stand up against the evil and pretend that their job is just to play church. Well, that's the devil's idea of the church, folks.

And if you're the devil's idea of a Christian, you might want to rethink it. We'll be right back. You can check out what makes a man.org. What makes a man. org. We'll be right back talking to David Benham. Welcome back talking to David Benham. Hey, where's your twin brother, Jason?

Is he not all in on this biblical masculinity thing? Why is he hiding? He's hiding under a rock, just like he's been doing since we were born. No, he's totally in on this. He's running the companies, and I'm out, you know, trying to shake some bushes and stir up hornets nests by talking about what a man is. And isn't that a shame, Eric? People are like, man, I appreciate the boldness of you and your brother. And I'm like, okay, let's just pause for a second.

I'm simply saying what a man is and what a man is. is not. Yeah. Dietrich Bonhofer was bold, right? The Apostle Paul was bold. The Hebrews 11 Christians were bold. And I can imagine, Eric, at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, when we're all together, and David is telling his story.

Peter tells his story. Mary and Hannah, they tell their stories. And then they say, hey, David, tell us about your story. And I'm like, well, I got made fun of on Instagram. And they're like, okay, well, when did your head get cut off? And I'm like, well, my head didn't get cut off. But you don't know what it's like to get made fun of in America. Like, I mean, it's ridiculous, honestly, if we really think of ourselves as Christians in this country.

We have nothing to fear. David saw a giant too big. I mean, Saul in the Bible saw a giant too big to fight. But David saw a giant too big to miss. This opportunity that we live in is a spiritual moment. And it's an opportunity too big to miss for Christians to be bold. and to speak truth that is literally being trampled in the streets. So when we talk about manhood, we're talking about biblical manhood.

We're talking about servant leadership. By leadership, we don't mean dominance and control. By leadership as a man, we mean the leadership of Christ who says he who wants to lead must serve. What did Jesus do? He put himself in a loincloth, washed the disciples feet, and then went and hung and naked on a cross for us, he was the ultimate servant leader. That's the type of man. Now listen, Eric, I don't care how radical a feminist is.

Deep in her heart, when she closes her eyes at night just before she drifts off into REM sleep. And nobody's around and the view is not pumping in her ear. She's not listening to the Democrats say what they say and the weak Republicans say what they say. She deep in her heart would love it if there was. as a man, whether it's her father or whether it is a husband or whether it is a brother or a son or whatever to say, hey, I'm going to protect you. I will defend you and protect you. I will keep you safe. And hey, I will also provide. I want to provide for you and I want to be a blessing to you because you matter and you're worth it. And I'm willing to sacrifice everything for you.

Now that right there, in the country, and every woman's heart that is set in their heart. And a man, when a man acts like a man, women can truly flourish. And I thank God for the women that are stepping up and leading because men aren't. But men need to step up, which is why what makes a man. org is all important to us today. Well, what you said earlier, you know,

when you talk about drag queens reading, you know, in schools or whatever, is anybody who is sane and grounded knows this is insane. It's also demonic. Like clearly drag queens, there's some agenda. It's a sick thing. You think what would make a man want to put on makeup and dress like that? It's not healthy, right? Folks, it's not healthy.

Something very broken. Something very, very broken. And let's be clear, most men who are, are living a gay lifestyle are not that broken. We're talking about a level of deep, sick, brokenness. But what amazes me is if men would be men, they would not allow this. They would say, this is not going to happen in mom. Can I tell you something?

I don't expose much for this. That's right. Let me tell you something that just happened in my city, Charlotte, North Carolina, just north of the city is a little town called Concord, North Carolina. It's where I live. It's where my dad lives. there was a drag queen group. I don't even know who these groups are,

but now that, I mean, they're trying to pervade every area of culture at this point. They decided that we're going to go to the Concord Brewery. There's a brewhouse in Concord that's attached to an antique mall. This is like Concord, North Carolina, the rhinestone on the buckle of the Bible Belt. And they, these drag queens went and did. did a performance at a brewhouse.

Now, my dad, okay, listen, my dad heard about it, and he decided, I'm going to go. Now, my dad used to be a drunk. He used to own a bar. He hadn't been in a bar, and who knows how it was all. My dad shows up, and listen, this is all he had. He showed up. He said there might have been 60 people there. He had his Bible in his hand because he carries his Bible everywhere he goes.

I say, Dad, why do you always carry that? And he said, well, you know, I used to carry a beer in my hand. Now I've either got a cup of coffee or my Bible. I've always got something in my hand. So he shows up to the bar. This is just last year. He's got his Bible in his hand. The very first drag performer got up to the stage.

They set up a little stage there. Grab the microphone and pointed at my dad in the back of the room who had literally not said a word to anyone, pointed at my dad and said, him. He is the problem with this country. Get him out. Now, what had my dad done? He was carrying a Bible. So the security guard comes over and asks my dad to leave. And my dad said, why?

I'm doing nothing. I've literally done nothing. I'm sitting here with my Bible and my man. I'm standing in the back of the room. And the guard goes, sir, we don't want to cause a problem. He goes, I'm not causing a problem. You are. Anyway, they escort my dad out.

As they're escorting my dad out, he's walking to his truck. carrying his Bible and the drag performers got up on stage and started mocking him, mocking Christianity. And then, of course, my dad drives home and nothing ever came of it. But my dad calls me and tells me the story. And I'm like, Dad, and by the way, they did a little interview on it in the local newspaper about, you know, for Benham and all this stuff. So I said, Dad, can you imagine the picture that God is looking at in this country where a man

with a Bible is being mocked as he walks, as he's being exported, literally the the security escorted him all the way to his truck as if he was the danger. They escorted him to his truck, and then the drag queens were up there in full freedom to go and do their, quote, performance. That's the condition of the nation that we're in. In that condition, we think about my children and my children's children, you know, and in this country. This is why Promise Keepers Ken Harrison and the other said, we are going to put a stake in the ground. this is God's way. A biblical man, when he functions, when he acts in his place of responsibility,

he then allows civil society to flourish as it was designed and not to be escorted away simply because he's carrying the Bible. I want to follow up. As folks, we're talking to David Benham. You can follow him and his brother Jason, that Benham Brothers will be right back. Welcome back to my friend David Benham. and H-A-M. David, you're just talking about your father. Now, your father is like a folk hero. I had the privilege of meeting him, the famous Flip Benham, and it's like there's no cooler name than Flip. It's like, come on. But your father is such a hero, and he raised you and your brother in a way that it's hard to describe.

I want to get into that. Can you tell the story of, I mean, I mean, I want to, we just got a couple of minutes here, but your father led Norma Jane McCorvey. Ladies and general, that's Jane Roe of Roe v. Wade, okay? This woman was living in a lesbian lifestyle. Your father, how many years ago, led her to Jesus? I mean, it's one of these amazing stories of loving people. Can you just tell that briefly before we go to the break and then we'll get you in hour two also? Yeah, over 30 years ago, we lived in Dallas, Texas,

And my dad said that his role as a pastor, he was a pastor. His role as a pastor was to go into the darkness, the most broken places and bring the healing love of Jesus Christ. And he started inviting Jane Roe, Norma McCorvey and her lesbian partner over to our home for dinner. And he met her because he happened to be his office. He put it right next to her abortion clinic in Dallas, Texas, so that he could be close to the abortion clinic and ministered to those moms. over a period of a couple of years, both Norma and Connie, who was her lesbian partner at the time, gave their hearts to Jesus Christ. And we watched the power of the gospel. Our dad would always say this, Eric, he would say, I'm not an issues fighter.

I'm a kingdom bringer. He said the issue is ultimately a gospel spiritual issue. He said, because if you want to end abortion and end the pride marches immediately in America, then you elect Muslims and let them put Sharia law in place. But that's not what we're seeking to do. We are coming to bring a kingdom that is filled with freedom. And when people have freedom set free by their sins, now all of a sudden you can live in a nation that is a nation of freedom.

And so I grew up that way. Our dad would always say to Jason and me, boys, I'm not raising you to be sheep among sheep. I'm raising you to be sheep among wolves. So, and the reason why is because wolves can't hurt sheep. because they recognize there's a lion inside of the sheet. So I was raised to be a fighter, like not to cocoon ourselves into the comfort of today's traditional American churches, right? And that's what we're doing is we so often can retreat to the comfort and safety of the

four walls of the American church. And we're not engaging culture as God has called us to be salt and light. So that's how I was raised. Well, it's a beautiful thing. I had the privilege of meeting your dad a few months ago. when I preached at a church in Charlotte, I can't remember which one. But John Amundtuku was there. It was just a glorious thing.

And the thing that you know, you and your brother and your dad have in common with John Amichuku is that you're bold. But the funny thing is, God is requiring us, requires us to be bold and courageous. That's not extra credit. That's not extra credit, folks. That is basic Christianity. And if you want to know whether you believe something really in your heart, how are you behaving? If you're timid, maybe you don't really believe it.

And I really think that that is the case that we're living in times right now, David, where the Lord is forcing us to choose. He's saying, you know what, no more fence sitting. If you don't stand up and speak out against men going into women's locker rooms, If you don't speak out against drag queens imposing themselves on your children in the community, if you're not speaking against this stuff, you're a coward and you lack faith. Ladies and gentlemen, we are saved by faith. If you lack faith, you are not saved.

This is a dramatic thing. Well, check out what makes a man.org. There's a proclamation on biblical masculinity there. What Makes a Man.org. And follow David and Jason at Benham, We'll be right back.