The Eric Metaxas Show - David Benham (Encore)

Episode Date: June 11, 2024

Friend of the program David Benham joins to discuss what it means to be a man and why masculinity has become taboo. (Encore)

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m.investments.com. Welcome to the Eric Mataxis show. They say it's a thin line between love and hate, but we're working every day to thicken that line, or at least to make it a double or triple line. And now here's your line jumping host, Eric Mattaxas.

Hey there, folks. Welcome to summer. What does that mean? Well, it means you're going to dress differently than you do in winter, for example. And in order to help us understand how we might do that, I wanted to bring on our friend OW Root. You can find him at necktie salvage. He is described here in my notes as a family man and fashion expert calling for a return

to tradition and excellence here, here. Welcome back, OW. It's good to be here. Listen, okay, let's get going here because people, you and I've talked about this a lot in the past, men are, in this day and age, typically completely flummoxed by how to dress. They don't have the basics. They don't, you know, people, when I tell somebody like, maybe you should tuck in your shirt, they kind of look at me like, oh, why don't I go hang myself? because that would be too constraining for me to tuck in my shirt. So what do you have to say on the subject, not just of clothing, but of summer attire for men? When it comes to summer, something that guys struggle with is staying cool in the heat.

And they always say, oh, I can't dress decently. I have to wear a T-shirt and I have to wear jeans. Why would you wear jeans in the summer? It makes no sense. A T-shirt doesn't even make any sense. That's actually kind of thick. Jeans and a cotton T-shirt can be clean. And clingy and hot.

Ladies and gentlemen, what are you thinking? No, listen, I'm with you. I'm with you. I'm with you. Keep going. Because jeans, I typically, you know, my kind of uniform is like, you know, maybe a double-breasted blazer and jeans in the winter. If I'm being lazy, that's just my go-to. But there comes a time when that's really warm.

Yeah. I mean, think about summer as just thinning everything up. You can follow the same principles, just thin it up. Instead of thick jeans or thick cottincinos, do linen. Instead of a thick Oxford shirt, do maudress. You just, you lessen everything, you thin everything up. You want to be breezy. You don't have to dress in a t-shirt.

And again, a t-shirt is not actually cool. A linen long-sleeved shirt that has some nice room for you to move. That's much more cool and comfortable in the summer and looks about 100 times better. Now, you know, it's kind of funny because recently I realized like, I'm warm, and I had to think, like, so what do I wear in the summer? And then I remembered last summer I found Brooks Brothers has these delightful, I guess they're poplincinos. I don't know, but they're Milano cut. And, you know, you have to do what works for you.

But I had, I bought a pair last year and I go, it actually suits me. You know, it just, it looks right. It doesn't look baggy. But they're just thin enough that you can wear them in the, you know, you can wear them in the the summer. You can wear them, you know, loafers, no socks, whatever. That's another thing. But you kind of have to know where to go. So like when you say linen shirts, where do people go? Where do people get this stuff? This is a really good question. So a place that I love for summer pants, first of all, is a place called Speer and McKay. They do high-rise cotton linen, she knows,

blend and also linen as well. And they are, they fit, they just hit the spot like your Brooks brothers do. For shirts, you know, you can try to look at a place like Spear and McKay, custom, or off the rack. You can also look at proper cloth. Proper cloth makes custom shirts, and they have a bunch of different linen and thin options. And honestly, you can go vintage. You can look on eBay. You can search for older stuff, Lanzend, Brooks Brothers, old J. Crew.

eBay's a great resource because when it's hard to find stuff new, you can look online. And honestly, a lot of guys don't even buy the stuff anymore, so you can get a great deal. I got this jacket off of eBay. I'm not ashamed. I'm not, neither am I ashamed of the gospel nor of where I buy my clothing. And I got to tell you, it is, it is kind of a funny thing because it can be hard to know where to go, where to shop. And it takes time. It's taken me like decades to kind of figure out what I'm comfortable with and what works for me, what looks right for me.

What's the name of the company, Speer and McKay? Speer and McKay. They're a Canadian company, I believe, and they really offer a lot of classics for pretty affordable, really. The one thing you've got to look out for is that their sizing can be a little weird on the pants. So you're going to want to go up a size or two, and they don't really have a lot of stock. Because that's, I think, how they keep the prices low. So when something comes up that you like, strike with the iron's hot.

Okay, one thing I have to talk about a pet peeve for me. Years ago, you know, I thought of Brooks Brothers as the gold standard. they were bought by some, I don't know, globalist satanic conglomerate, and they became more and more like the gap or something. I don't know what happened. And the classic, you know, the moment for me was when almost all of their shirts are non-iron shirts. Non-iron shirts, you're talking about breathable stuff. Non-iron shirts are a nightmare for me. They're just uncomfortable.

It's like putting on, I don't know, it's like they're part rubber or something. They just don't breathe. That's a big trend for a lot of guys. They seem to have a problem with using an iron. Yeah, the non-iron thing is just, not only is it just, you can talk about it in a real philosophical way, how it's just synthetic and weird and unnatural, but it's also lame. I mean, how hard is it to iron a shirt? It takes 15 minutes to iron a shirt. And if you're like me, it takes two minutes.

Two minutes, folks, two minutes, because you don't have to iron the back. You're wearing a jacket. Ah, come on. No, seriously, I got to tell you that, but the non-iron shirts, I, you know, in years past, I made the mistake of buying a couple. And I thought, what is, I couldn't figure out what it was, but it just felt uncomfortable. And I just want to say to guys out there, guys, no, no, you don't need to go there. You don't need to get some starch and an iron.

Honestly, like, it's just an amazing thing to me. It's kind of like the untucked shirts. the non-iron shirts. Like, why do you ever get out of bed? Like, don't even bother. Like, just don't bother. I mean, I totally agree with you, obviously. And that, there's like a finish on these non-iron shirts.

That's why they feel weird. You're not actually feeling natural fabric. No. You know, I mean, think about a linen shirt, the nice breezy linen shirt, nice roomy. Compare that to a non-iron weirdly tight shirt. It feels like you're wearing, it sounds like an exaggeration, but like a plastic bag, honestly comparative no that that it's true if we've accomplished nothing here o w we have warned people off of these non-iron shirts but it is depressing to go into a brooks brothers and to see like most

of their stuff is non-iron shirts i i'm just i'm fascinated because they've this is a hard thing push this on people and i think people don't don't know any better and they go okay i guess i don't have to iron it but then it just feels uncomfortable absolutely and it like like you said they don't know and they just sort of slip it in there and it gets really hard to find must iron shirts. You know, to find must iron shirts. Must iron shirts. Yeah, or must iron pants, too.

You know, you see the same thing with pants. Yeah. And same thing with stretch. A lot of people will put stretch in their pants. Yeah. And to try to find chinos, no stretch can be like a herculean task today. I don't mind a little stretch. It kind of depends.

I've had some success with pants that have some stretch in them. But basically, yeah, you have to be careful. Listen, we're talking about summer. Let's talk shorts. Let's talk Bermuda shorts. Now, I had the joy about, I don't know, 12 years ago, of visiting Bermuda. I've never been there since, but some friends were there. And they said, oh, you have to go to, there's this special, I forget the name of the shop,

but it's the place where Bermuda shorts were invented. If you want actual Bermuda shorts, you go there, right? And those shorts are, you know, they're kind of generously sized. They're a little bit longer. But they feel like you're wearing pants. They don't feel like athletic shorts. What do you advise on shorts, winter shorts appropriate? How does that work?

Bermuda shorts are awesome. This is a classic staple in American style. And some guys get all tense about shorts. You know, a lot of people have different really strong opinions. Some guys who are in the city all the time have these strong opinions where you should never wear shorts. They have a place in American style. And so what you're describing with this classic Bermuda short, That is the classic Bermuda short.

And that's not new. That's not five years old. That has some serious history, like a century of history. What I advise with shorts is they're obviously less formal than pants. But they are absolutely a staple in summer American preppy, ivy style and just American style in general. When it comes to the cut, a lot of the young guys like them real short. And that's kind of a very cool look. If you're older, you might want them a little longer.

always a safe bet with everything is if you go in the middle. You just get a little bit just above your knee, make sure it's not too long. Actually, forgive me, speaking of too long, we're at a time in this segment, but more with OW Root in the second hour, and when we come back, my friend David Benham. I like knowing exactly where my meat comes from. And with Moink, that place is from small family farms all across the country. And you can help save the family farm and get access to the highest quality meat when you join the Moink movement today.

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Check it out. Hey, folks, welcome back. It is now my joy to talk to my friend. David Benham. David, has anyone ever told you you look a lot like your twin brother, Jason, and that one of you might be redundant? You are the only person on the planet that has said that we are redundant. No, no, no, no, no, not the two of you.

One of you is redundant. No, Jason, that's what I'm saying. Jason is redundant. I think it's probable. It's probable that Jason is redundant because he just looks so much like you. It's like, come on. Look, you're one of these people, well, both the two of you, you know, we've been friends, you've been on the show a bunch of times, but I never know how to describe you.

So I always describe you with my highest comment that you're like maniacs in the best sense. You are warriors for truth. You really are. I want to talk about where you got that. You got that from your dad whose name is Flip. It's like my favorite name, Flip, the idea that his name was actually. that his name is actually flip. I want to talk about your dad, but first, how do, you know, if I'm giving you an official

introduction, what do I say about you, David Benham, or your brother, Jason Benham? Well, I guess spiritually, I'm a follower of Christ, but I'm also a husband of 25 years to my wife, Lori. I'm a father of five children. Four are now grown and out of the house. I've got one teenager left. I love my country. I'm deeply patriotic.

My grandfather fought in World War II. was shot down in the Pacific. So I understand the sacrifice in this nation. And I also see the moral and spiritual decline in this nation. And I've read the book Bonhofer, Amazing Grace, and I kind of like you. But I'm also, from a professional standpoint, I used to play pro baseball. I got out of baseball. I became an entrepreneur.

My brother just kind of coasted onto all of my hard work and discipline. And by God's grace, the Lord bless the work of our hands. and we became best-selling authors, and now we travel the country and we speak to Christians, encouraging them to stand boldly for their faith, whatever the cost. Okay.

By the way, all of that is true, because I know you. And you, David Benham and your brother, Jason, Benham, how can folks find you before we get into the conversation because we're going to get into it? But what is the... Benhambrothers.com, B-E-N-H-A-M,

and all of you. our social media is at Benham Brothers. So it's super simple. Benham Brothers. B-E-N-H-A-M. Okay, let's get into it, bro. You, just the other day, I don't know if I aired it yesterday. Ken Harrison, I'm here at this thing in Georgia. Ken Harrison, who's the head of promise keepers, is here. And he spoke to me about this proclamation on godly masculinity. There's a website, what makes a man.org. And I found out you were involved in this. I said, I want to talk to you about this as well, because ladies and gentlemen, in case you're scoring at home, Pride Month is a sick joke. This is not Pride Month. June is not Pride Month. Some people call it that. They're kind of insane.

That would be like the generous interpretation. It's lunacy. And so it's a good time for us to reassert what is actual masculinity, what's God's idea of masculinity? And David, we know we've fallen on hard times when I have to talk to you about masculinity. But let's try. Let's try. We're doing it. You know, it's a, we've gone a long way in this country, the wrong direction when June is the month that our troops hit Normandy and paid the ultimate sacrifice for our freedoms, not so that June could then become an entire month of all kinds of craziness marching through our streets and truly an agenda that is forcing itself down the throats of even our children. And, you know, we knew when promisekeepers and when Ken Harrison, a promise keeper said,

let's establish a definition of biblical masculinity because we're losing the idea of masculinity in this culture today. The only, you know, the problem today is not the presence of darkness. It's the absence of light. And if we don't actually act like men and be strong and courageous from a spiritual perspective and also an earthly perspective, then we're going to continue to be so open-minded in this country that our brains are literally going to fall out of our heads. And that's what we're seeing today.

The lunacy of the immorality that is marching through its streets at first, the radical agenda to transform morality in this kind of. It just wanted acceptance, but then it didn't stop there. It then wanted celebration, but it's not stopping there. Now it wants participation. And that's what we're finding. And so promise keepers decided let's establish a definition of masculinity. Socrates was once famously quoted.

He said, if you wish to converse with me, first define your terms. So let's just define our terms, right? What is masculinity? It is rooted. God created in the Garden of Eden. God's original design was male and female. They are equal, but different. I don't know about you, Eric, but I am totally different from my wife. My wife is totally different for me. Well, you know, actually what's interesting, I've never thought of it in just this way. But when you say, there's no way around it. When you define masculinity, there can be no masculinity. without femininity. In other words, they are, by definition, complementary. That's C-O-M-P-L-E, not I, complementary. They complement each other. That's by God's design. So you can't even have masculinity apart from femininity. You can't have femininity apart from masculinity. They are complementary,

and that is God's design. He made us male and female in his image when the two of of us unite. We can produce life, the miracle of life. The whole thing is so beautiful. So the idea that we have to reestablish this, that things are so off the rails that we have to talk about this, you know, it kind of tells you where we are. But David, I mean, you said this earlier, when we originally, I mean, if somebody said to me, you know, whatever, 20 years ago, like, I just want to be left alone to live my gay lifestyle, right? Right. My heart goes out to folks like that, right? I just think like, look, I don't agree with you.

I don't have same-sex affection. I don't know what it's lived with that. That's difficult. It's a bear. But I could understand somebody saying, just leave me alone, right? Because in America, we say, you know what? If you want to go in your house and eat hot dogs, and I prefer to hamburgers, like it doesn't make any difference to me.

like we're different. I disagree. That's not a moral issue, but there are moral issues. We still believe that people, you know, you can raise your kids as Muslims. I don't quit that, but I don't want a law that's going to tell you what food you should eat, what religion you should practice. We believe in freedom in this country. And so that's how this was presented. This was presented to people like, we just want to live our lives.

And many Americans said, well, you know, to some extent I get that. I don't agree with that. But we have liberty in America. And if you want to raise your kids to be atheist or if you want to be an atheist in your home or whatever it is, I can do what I can to persuade you in the public square. But I cannot force you to agree with me. And that is how the gay lobby, because it was the gay lobby, was moving this issue. Next thing you know, it's no longer the gay lobby. Now you have trans lunacy, you have drag queens.

It's like openly insane and demonic, and they have kind of lumped this all in together. And the reason I'm going off on this is to say that that's how you know what you're dealing with. When somebody lies, they tell you something. So we just want this and you go, okay, and then they change it. They move the goalpost. They move the goalpost. They move the goal post. That's how you know from the beginning you were lied to it.

And this is not to say that every gay person that was advocating for this was lying. No. But the forces behind it were using even the well-meaning gays, again, that I don't agree with them. But the point is that you see ultimately what was behind it was not just let us live our lives. It was a game. It was a game. And you see the same thing, frankly, with radical Islam. Radical Islam says, oh, we just want to come there, just live our lives.

lives. Next thing you know, they've taken over Europe. Exactly. So I say this because it's about discerning the spirit behind it. That's right. The spirit behind it pretends to be nice, pretends to care about justice, equality. And then you find out lie, lie, lie, lie, all along they wanted to take over. But that's the way sin works, even in our own personal lives. It's never content to just stay in one little box, right? It's just just a little bit. And then it's more. It intensifies and then begins to extensify. And that's exactly what sin does. It happens to not only individuals, but nations.

And so in this battle over the soul of our nations, specifically speaking about our nation, which is why we wanted to define biblical masculinity, but let me pause for a second and say, in this battle, there are two types of people. There are the enslaved and the enslavers. The enslaved are the 99% of people that you come in contact with and are just enslaved in their sin, just like we once were. And now as we walk with Christ, number one, we've been set free by his salvation. But as we walk with Christ, we can be set free and we can flourish as God intentionally designed us to flourish.

Those are the enslaved people. But then on the other hand, there are the one percenters, and those are the enslavers. Those are the ones who have sold themselves to do the bidding of the devil. Those are the ones who have sold themselves to fight. We're going to go to a break. When we come back, we're going to be talking more about that, talking to David. Benham, folks, don't go away. California.

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You can find them at Benham Brothers. But let's continue. You were talking about the nature of sin, and we are trying to establish that what we're dealing with right now, it's become more and more and more brazen to the point that now you have people really it's it the funny thing is David that years ago people would say oh you know they're coming for your kids and you go oh come on what are you talking about now the fact of the matter is many of them were not coming for your kids yes right there were enough that really were intent on bringing across an agenda which is demonic it is at least deeply committedly

anti-biblical, anti-Christian, and now we're here. Yes. And you're describing that process. Yeah, so if you think about it, you know, we see that there are the enslaved and the enslaved and the enslaved are just the people that you deal with on a daily basis, and they need the gospel of Christ. But then the enslavers are those who have literally sold themselves to do the works of the devil.

Now, we all say, well, I don't want to get political or whatever. You know, this is not only a political issue. It's a moral issue, but not even that. ultimately it's a spiritual issue, which is why it gets worse and worse and worse until they ultimately, it goes literally, it goes from, they want to marginalize your faith, then they want to demonize your faith, and ultimately they want to criminalize your faith. That's the way that it works. It always works that way because it is a spiritual attack. You saw this in Germany. We see this now here in America. And so what's happening is Jesus, when he talked to the enslaved,

Like the woman caught in adultery. He said, you without sin cast the first stone as they walk away. He says, where are your accusers? And she says, there are none. And he says, neither do I accuse you. And then he draws a line. Go and sin no more. See, he reached out to the enslaved with compassion.

Now pause. To the enslavers, those who had sold themselves to do the works of Satan, how did Jesus talk to them? You whitewashed wall. You son of the devil. You empty tombs, right? This is the way in Acts 13, Paul addressed Elmas the magician. He's like, you son of the devil, how long will you continue to make crooked the straight ways of God? You deal with them differently.

So to the enslavers, you resist with courage. So to the enslaved, you reach out with compassion. That's everybody that we come in contact with to the most part. But then to the enslavers, these are those who have taken culture, who have taken positions of power and influence, and are indoctrinating children and generations away with the truth that leads to human flourishing, which is why we find ourselves in a position today like Gay Pride Month, where we have drag queens, grown men who are literally in the city of Charlotte. They are pole dancing at Club Scorpio on a Friday night in front of men doing all kinds of foul perverted things.

And they are on Saturday mid-morning reading to our children at the Charlotte Mecklen Library for Drag Queen Story Hour. How does that happen? How do we allow that to happen? Because enslavers have now taken positions of power. And here's, Eric, let me give you an example real quick. And I'll get to the biblical masculinity thing, but let me just give you an example real quick.

You know, traffic in America works, not because everybody agrees on the same thing or drives the same car or believes the exact same, you know, thing politically or religiously or anything. You can, whatever, it works because everybody agrees on one simple truth. Red means stop, green means go. What would happen if some dude come around and said, no, red means go in my life. And green can stop. Everywhere that man drives, what would come?

What would happen? It would be chaos. Now, what would happen if that person then took power over the traffic laws in the country? And he had this worldview that red means stop, green means, I mean, red means go, green means stop. He would literally wreak havoc on traffic in this country. And that's exactly what we're finding happening in our school systems, in our universities, in big, in media, Hollywood, big government with the Democratic Party, and many of the limp-risted Republicans, this is literally what's happening.

And so now we're finding ourselves, kids don't even know what a boy is or a girl is, or they do know it. They know it instinctively, but they're being taught something totally different. And so promise keepers and other ministries have come along and said, we are going to create some clarity for future generations. A man was created by God in the same way he created woman in his image. And he created them to design,

they were designed to complement each other, much like what you said. And when we function in our masculinity, in a proper biblical way, it leads to supernatural flourishing for women and children. But if we don't do it in a biblical way, then it's going to be the world's way. And what does the world elevate? Greed, power, dominance, control. And that's what the world does.

And then the world takes its own invention and calls it toxic. And so this is where we find ourselves. We have to step in. MLK said, and I know you know the quote, Martin Luther King Jr., the church must be reminded that it is neither the master nor the servant of the state, rather it is the conscience of the state. And so this is an opportunity for us as the conscience, as believers, to say, this is what a man is. This is what a man acts like and this is what a man should not act like. And that's exactly what we're doing at what makes a man.org.

And by the way, Martin Luther King Jr. got the phrase, the church is the conscience of the state from Dietrich Bonhoff. who obviously lived it, he saw the church refuse to be the church, refuse to stand up against the evil and pretend that their job is just to play church. Well, that's the whole idea of the church, folks. And if you're the devil's idea of a Christian, you might want to rethink it. We'll be right back. You could check out what makes a man.org. What Makes a man.org.

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Welcome back to talking to David Benham. Hey, where's your twin brother, Jason? Has he not all in on this biblical masculinity thing? Why is he hiding? He's hiding under a rock, just like he's been doing since we were born. No, he's totally in on this. He's running the companies and I'm out, you know, trying to shake some bushes and stir up hornet's nests by talking about what

man is. And isn't that a shame, Eric? How people are like, man, I appreciate the boldness of you and your brother. And I'm like, okay, let's just pause for a second. I'm simply saying what a man is and what a man is not. Yeah. And Dietrich Bonhofer was bold, right?

The Apostle Paul was bold. The Hebrews 11 Christians were bold. And I can imagine, Eric, at the marriage supper of the Lamb when we're all together and David is telling his story. Peter tells his story. Mary and Hannah, they tell their stories. And then they say, hey, David, tell us about your

story. And I'm like, well, I got made fun of on Instagram. And they're like, okay, well, when did your head get cut off? And I'm like, well, my head didn't get cut off. But you don't know what it's like to get made fun of in America. Like, I mean, it's ridiculous, honestly, if we really think of ourselves as Christians in this country. We have nothing to fear. David saw a giant too big, I mean, Saul in the Bible saw a giant too big to fight, but David saw a giant too big to miss. This opportunity that we live in is a spiritual moment, and it's an opportunity too big to miss for Christians to be bold and to speak truth that is literally being trampled in the streets. So when we talk about manhood, we're talking about biblical manhood.

We're talking about servant leadership. By leadership, we don't mean dominance and control. By leadership as a man, we mean the leadership of Christ. who says he who wants to lead must serve. What did Jesus do? He put himself in a loincloth, washed the disciples feet, and then went and hung and naked on a cross for us. He was the ultimate servant leader. That's the type of man.

Now, listen, Eric, I don't care how radical a feminist is. Deep in her heart, when she closes her eyes at night just before she drifts off into REM sleep, and nobody's around and the view is not pumping in her ear and she's not listening to the Democrats say what they say and the weak Republicans say what they say. She deep in her heart would love it if there was a man, whether it's her father or whether it is a husband or whether it is a brother or a son or whatever to say, hey, I'm going to protect you. I will defend you and protect you. I will keep you safe. And hey, I will also provide. I want to provide for you.

and I want to be a blessing to you because you matter and you're worth it. And I'm willing to sacrifice everything for you. Now that right there in eternity and every woman's heart that is set in their heart. And a man, when a man acts like a man, women can truly flourish. And I thank God for the women that are stepping up and leading because men aren't. But men need to step up, which is why what makes a man.org is all important to us today. What you said earlier, you know, when you talk about drag queens reading, you know, in schools or whatever it is, anybody who is sane and grounded knows this is insane. It's also demonic.

Like clearly, drag queens, there's some agenda. It's a sick thing. You think what would make a man want to put on makeup and dress like that? it's not healthy, right, folks? It's not healthy. Something very broken. Something very, very broken. And let's be clear, most men who are living a gay lifestyle are not that broken.

We're talking about a level of deep, sick brokenness. But what amazes me is if men would be men, they would not allow this. They would say, this is not going to happen in mom. Can I tell you something? I don't expose much for this. That's right. Let me tell you something that just happened in my city, Charlotte, North Carolina, just north of the cities, a little town called Concord, North Carolina. It's where I live. It's where my dad lives. There was a drag queen group. I don't even know who these groups are, but now that, I mean, they're trying to pervade every area of culture at this point. They decided that we're going to go to the Concord Brewery. There's a brewhouse in Concord that's a house in Concord that's attached to an antique mall. This is in like, this is like Concord, North Carolina, the rhinestone of the on the buckle of the Bible Belt. And they, these drag queens went and did a performance at a brewhouse.

Now, my dad, okay, listen, my dad heard about it and he decided, I'm going to go. Now, my dad used to be a drunk, he used to own a bar. He hadn't been in a bar and who knows how long. My dad shows up and Listen, this is all he had. He showed up. He said there might have been 60 people there. He had his Bible in his hand because he carries his Bible everywhere he goes. I say, Dad, why do you always carry that? And he said, well, you know, I used to carry a beer in my hand.

Now I've either got a cup of coffee or my Bible. I've always got something in my hand. So he shows up to the bar. This is just last year. He's got his Bible in his hand. The very first drag performer got up to the stage. They set up a little stage there. grabbed the microphone and pointed at my dad in the back of the room who had literally not said a word to anyone, pointed at my dad and said, him, he is the problem with this country.

Get him out. Now, what had my dad done? He was carrying a Bible. So the security guard comes over and asks my dad to leave. And my dad said, why? I'm doing nothing. I've literally done nothing. sitting here with my eye on my and I'm standing in the back of the room. And the guard goes, sir,

we don't want to cause a cause a problem. He goes, I'm not causing a problem. You are. Anyway, they escort my dad out. As they're escorting my dad out, he's walking to his truck, carrying his Bible, and the drag performers got up on stage and started mocking him, mocking Christianity. And then, of course, my dad drives home and nothing ever came of it. But my dad calls me and tells me the story. And I'm like, that. And by the way, they did a little. interview on it in the local newspaper about, you know, foot venom and all this stuff. So I said, Dad, can you imagine the picture that God is looking at in this country where a man with a Bible is being mocked as he walked, as he's being escorted, literally the security

escorted him all the way to his truck as if he was the danger. They escorted him to his truck and then the drag queens were up there in full freedom to go and do their, quote, performance. That's the condition of the nation that we're in. in that condition. We think about my children and my children's children and in this country. This is why Promise Keepers Ken Harrison and the other said, we are going to put a stake in the ground. This is God's way.

A biblical man, when he functions, when he acts in his place of responsibility, he then allows civil society to flourish as it was designed and not to be escorted away simply because, He's carrying the Bible. I want to follow up. As folks, we're talking to David Benham. You can follow him and his brother Jason. That Benham Brothers will be right back. Welcome back. I'm talking to my friend David Benham.

He and H-A-M. David, you're just talking about your father. Now, your father is like a folk hero. I had the privilege of meeting him, the famous Flip Benham. And it's like, there's no cooler name than Flip. It's like, come on. But your father is such a hero. And he raised you and your brother in a way that it's hard to describe.

I want to get into that. Can you tell the story of, I mean, I want to, we just got a couple of minutes here. But your father led Norma Jane McCorvey. Ladies and gentlemen, that's Jane Roe of Roe v. Wade. Okay, this woman was living in a lesbian lifestyle. your father, how many years ago, led her to Jesus? I mean, it's one of these amazing stories of loving people. Can you just tell that briefly before we go to the break and then we'll get you in hour

two also? Yeah, over 30 years ago, we lived in Dallas, Texas, and my dad said that his role as a pastor, he was a pastor. His role as a pastor was to go into the darkness, the most broken places and bring the healing love of Jesus Christ. And he started inviting Jane Roe, Norman McClain. Corvie and her lesbian partner over to our home for dinner. And he met her because he happened to be his office.

He put it right next to her abortion clinic in Dallas, Texas, so that he could be close to the abortion clinic and minister to those moms. Over a period of a couple of years, both Norma and Connie, who was her lesbian partner at the time, gave their hearts to Jesus Christ. And we watched the power of the gospel. Our dad would always say this, Eric. He would say, I'm not an issues fighter. I'm a kingdom bringer.

He said the issue is ultimately a gospel spiritual issue. He said, because if you want to end abortion and end the pride marches immediately in America, then you elect Muslims and let them put Sharia law in place. But that's not what we're seeking to do. We are coming to bring a kingdom that is filled with freedom. And when people have freedom set free by their sins, now all of a sudden you can live in a nation that is a nation of freedom. And so I grew up that way.

Our dad would always say to Jason and me, boys, I'm not raising you to be sheep among sheep. I'm raising you to be sheep among wolves. So, and the reason why is because wolves can't hurt sheep because they recognize there's a lion inside of the sheep. So I was raised to be a fighter, like not to cocoon ourselves into the comfort of today's traditional American churches, right? And that's what we're doing is we just, we, we, we sewed. often can retreat to this comfort and safety of the four walls of the American church. And we're not engaging culture as God has called us to be salt and light. So that's how I was raised.

Well, it's a beautiful thing. I had the privilege of meeting your dad a few months ago when I preached at a church in Charlotte. I can't remember which one. But John, Iman Chukhu was there. It was just a glorious thing. And the thing that, you know, you and your brother and your dad have in common with John Amundjuku is that you're bold. But the funny thing is, God is requiring us, requires us to be bold and courageous. That's not extra credit. That's not extra credit,

folks. That is basic Christianity. And if you want to know whether you believe something really in your heart, how are you behaving? If you're timid, maybe you don't really believe it. And I really think that that is the case that we're living in times right now, David, where the Lord is forcing us to choose. He's saying, you know what, no more fence sitting. If you don't stand up and speak out against men going into women's locker rooms, if you don't speak out against drag queens imposing themselves on your children in the community, if you're not speaking against this stuff, you're a coward and you lack faith.

Ladies and gentlemen, we are saved by faith. If you lack faith, you are not saved. This is a dramatic thing. Well, check out what makes a man.org. There's a proclamation of biblical masculinity there. What Makes a Man.org and follow David and Jason at Benham Brothers. We'll be right back.