The Eric Metaxas Show - David Pickup

Episode Date: September 8, 2020

Licensed marriage and family therapist David Pickup talks about how people who are seeking to change their same-sex attraction are being thwarted in their efforts by far-left cultural and political forces. (Encore Presentation)

Mataxis show. But first, two very important questions. Have you ever tried to stack marbles while wearing boxing gloves? Also, did you know that marigolds and geraniums hate each other? Absolutely. And now your host, Eric Mataxis. Folks, welcome to the Eric Mataxis show. We have an exciting show for you. In fact, we're going to begin this segment with an exciting announcement before I go to my friend Pastor Jack Graham to talk about a brand new film called 2024. The announcement is that, as you know, we've been working with food for the poor, raising money for starving kids. A horrible situation. The good news is you all have been very, very generous.

We said that we would pick randomly. Somebody who gave money would be picked as a grand prize winner. If your name is Linda Luther, that's right, Linda, it's you. You're the grand prize winner. The grand prize winner gets so much stuff that you may have to move into a bigger home or get a storage unit. signed books from Eric Metaxus, signed books from Albin, all kinds of stuff, opportunity to visit the studio. We don't have time to go into it now.

But Linda Luther from Tucker, Georgia, God bless you, thank you, thanks all of you who gave. We are so grateful. Good cause. All right, I get to talk to my friend, Pastor Jack Graham of Prestonwood Baptist in Dallas, Texas. I heard that that's kind of a big church, Jack. Is that the case? It was big because you got here. You've been here several times.

and you're the guy who's big. I've preached there a couple of times. I've got to tell you, it's just a joy to be with you in person and here right now. And today we're talking about something we've both been involved in. There's a film out called Trump 2024. And I like the title of that, just because it might scare some people

in to think that he's going to run for a third term. I just find that very funny. But it is available. People can go to Trump, 2024. Film on the website or they can go to SalemNow.com. And be sure to use the code Eric because you get a discount. But salemnow.com is where you can find it. Tell us, Pastor Jack Graham, about this film. We're both in it. Tell us about it. It is a conversation about all the important issues that you talk about. I talk about them all the time from our

pulpit, the biblical worldview related to all the important issues. and the idea of Trump, 2024, is to think forward what would life be like, what would America be like, what would our liberties be like if Trump is not elected number one, 2020, and then what would happen thereafter 2024? And of course, that can be a very scary prospect. But it really is a very good documentary, well done, well-produced, important conversations about the most important issues of our lifetimes, of our generation. And as we say, our children, we do this looking beyond, thinking about beyond 2024, you know, our children and our children's children. And ultimately, so many of us are engaged in this battle for America and the future of this country because

of our love for our families, our freedoms, our future in this great country. It seems to me like there's a lot of ignorance on the part of Christians, good people who don't seem to understand that, you know, when you elect a leader, you're not really electing that guy. You're electing a whole administration. You're electing somebody who's going to appoint judges that are going to be there for a heck of a lot longer than four years. People seem to be like, you know, in this junior high school mode where they go like, well, I like that guy. I don't like that guy. And you think, wow. This is not a junior high school election. We are voting for someone who is going to propose judges and an administration of people who either love the Constitution and love America or who want to redo it fundamentally. I mean, did you think that in our lifetime we would be forcing, we would be facing cultural Marxism in the streets that BLM and Antifa would be actually espousing, Marxist doctrines. We think socialism is bad. They've gone straight to Marxism and they are trying to tear down everything that we know has led to the greatest, freest, most prosperous society in the world so that everybody in the world wants to come here. It really is hard for us to believe how important

this election is. At least it is for me. It is definitely a wake-up call. You're right. This is not student body president of your high school. This is the president and the presidency. I always look at it the entire executive branch and yes, the leader matters, the person who is the president, ultimately the vice president, but the entire administration is one of the things I've appreciated and I know you as well, Eric, about Donald Trump is the people he has chosen to surround him. The president is dependent upon the advice and the council of the people around him. And so the fact that, you know, his very first hire, for those of us who are Christians, the fact that his very first hire was Mike Pence, whose credentials and character as a believer and

follower of Jesus are certainly well known. And then you can just go right down and through. I tell people you can't, you can't walk a few steps in the West Wing, not that I've been there that many times, but you can't walk a few steps in the West Wing without running in to the president's men and women who love God, who love this country. And yes, we got a little taste of it in the 60s. I was a teenager, a child, and then a teenager in the 60s. So we got a little taste of this chaos that we're seeing today, but this feels a lot different. It is a lot different. And you're right, you know, socialism, I did a message last year, and I'm going to bring it back this year right before the election on socialism. This is not a political point people are making

to frighten people. This is real. Socialism is moving through this major political party and candidates. And there's no question that socialism and its evil big brother, communism, it's all born in Marxism. Government becomes your God. Government thinks for you. And it is a dangerous prospect. So when you think about Trump, 2024, this is a, a big part of this discussion. The whole idea of globalism and a world government, and I know people can get off track and there's a lot of craziness. People talk about world governments and globalism, but the fact is the Bible teaches us that in the last days there will be a one world government, and there is certainly a setup in every generation for something like that to happen, and we're seeing it.

But I'm very concerned for our young people, for our students in our schools, our high schools, the elitist educational institutions of the country are certainly contributing to the increase of socialistic and Marxist's ideas. And we see the violence and the chaos in the street as a result. We need to encourage each other. That's the key here. It's why I hope people will go see the film Trump 2024. Again, you can go to SalemNow.com. And if you use the code, Eric, you get a discount. But we need to be encouraged. And to understand that we're not the only ones that see what is going on. I try in my radio program, you try in your ministry to help people understand what is happening,

what the scripture says, what our obligations are. One of the most horrifying thing to me, and I know to you, is how many believers don't vote. And I think to myself, wow, this is a privilege. People have died for this privilege. And you've got bad theology if you think you can just sit back and not vote. we have people in this administration, I think of Betsy DeVos, fighting for school choice. Imagine being a poor kid in an urban environment and you have no choice. You have to go to the worst school.

We ought to have school choice in this country. This president and Betsy DeVos, who's a believer in the cabinet, is fighting for that. That's just one thing. We've got Ben Carson. We've got so many people that are fighting for biblical values. And Christians need to know, if you don't vote. vote for that, you're going to get the dramatic opposite. You're not just going to get a lesser version of that. In this day and age, you're going to get the antithesis of it. No question about that.

And what bothers me, I think the most are people who are saying, well, I'm just, you know, I'm going to sit the election out. I don't like either candidate. We know that there are people who, you know, that Donald Trump is an acquired taste for some people and his personality and all those things. and some people want to say, well, look, we just want to, we're just going to sit it out. You can't sit it out. This is time to man up. This is the time as Christians, men and women, to stand for truth and righteousness and vote our convictions, vote our conscience. But, you know, don't bail out.

If we leave the field, we forfeit the game. That's well said, Pastor Jack Graham. Thanks for being my guest. Folks, we've got a lot more coming up today. Don't forget to go to Salem now. dot com. Use the code Eric. This film will encourage you and you can share it with people. Pastor Jack, thank you. You're welcome. Hey folks, welcome back. We have on a very special guest. His name is David Beckup. He's a license, forgive me marriage and family therapist. And first of all,

David, welcome to the program. Thank you. I'm honored to be here, Eric. It's really a very, a very important issue that we're going to talk about and that you've devoted your life to. Why do you tell my audience what it is that you do and then we can get into it? Me and my colleagues are the current experts in the world for reintegrative therapy. Reintegrative therapy is founded on the belief, like all our clients believe as well, that homosexual feelings and transgenderism are not inborn. They're not genetic. There is no science that proves causation like that. Some people even believe it's created by God. The people that come to our offices or this therapy experience real and lasting emotional change when we go to the primary trauma issues underneath those feelings that are creating those feelings.

So the simple story is you treat what the issues are underneath and the feelings themselves resolve or disappear. in every 100% of my client's cases, they at the very least experience a natural, automatic, either dissipation of or significant reduction in homerotic feelings. And that fits the narrative, which says these issues are based on trauma, not something that's genetic or end. This is hot stuff. In other words, I know that as you say this, there are people who are absolutely outraged at these claims. So what has happened, of course, in our culture over the last number of years is that people have been banned states, have banned this kind of conversion therapy or reintegrative therapy. And what bothers me, I just want to frame this because it's so complicated, we all know that sexuality is very complicated and what one is attracted to, even what heterosexuals are attracted to and not attracted to.

It's just, it's a huge mystery, but we do know that there are people who have same-sex attractions who also have attractions to people of the opposite sex. There is all kinds of complicated versions of people's sexual attraction. And what these laws are saying is, in effect, no, you are born this way, and you've must go with this. In other words, if you have a flicker of same-sex attraction, they say, well, that means you're gay and you've got to go in that direction. So if somebody says, okay, I've had some flickers of same-sex attraction or have had some strong same-sex attraction, but I'm not comfortable with that. In a free country like America, is there a way that I can

work on that? Is there a way that I could lessen my same-sex attraction? Whether you agree a biblical view of sexuality or don't, it would seem to me that most Americans would say, hey, people can do what they want. If I want to get a facelift, I can get a facelift. If I can, you want to get a tattoo, I can get a tattoo. I mean, in other words, we have tremendous freedom in America. But what you're saying, and what I'm understanding,

is that the government is now saying, no, if you are someone who wants to go to a therapist or a psychiatrist or psychologist to deal this, we're telling you, no, you can't. The state says no. So it's just a wild place that we're in, and it's a complicated subject. That's true, Eric, but it's also rather simple, too. The LGBT activists, not necessarily the rank and file, but the LGBT activists that are, whose influence is just very long over the country, they're actually taking away rights of children and ultimately adults because they believe, this is the foundation. This is the foundation.

of everything. You can't miss this, that homosexuality and transgenderism are inborn, and that to change them in any way shape or form would be absolutely harmful, any kind of change therapy. Well, so the argument really is on that foundation. You resolve that foundation and the whole argument falls of what they're trying to do. And sure enough, wouldn't you know it, there is no scientific proof for inborn causality on any of this stuff. And there is so much evidence that indicates even the American Psychological Association puts out in their sexual handbook that sometimes people's sexual feelings change. And so why do people who are these activists, why are they destroying the Constitution of the United States in terms of free speech

for children and later adults saying you can't have the therapy that really fits your authentic self? Well, the reason I say this is complicated is because that we haven't been allowed to have an open conversation on any of these issues for a couple of decades, right? In other words, what's the last time you heard anybody talk about the fact that one of the two people who kind of broke lesbianism into the mainstream, Ellen DeGeneres and her then-girlfriend Anne Hache, you don't ever hear much about, oh, by the way, Anne Hache is now a heterosexual and is married. and you don't hear that because to say that implies that people can change or that maybe it isn't

inborn in some cases. In other words, it implies a number of things that make this kind of narrative that's been shoved down America's and the West's throats. It makes that narrative look shaky or threatened. And that's what bothers me. In other words, that even to have a conversation about this, There's so many issues, and we simply never hear about these issues. You just mentioned three of them. That's exactly right. You hit the nails on the head, and who's responsible in part? Largely it's to people in power, and that's what means activism that I mentioned,

but also the major media refuses to have the conversation. And our rights are being destroyed while all this unknowable or unfathomable information is supposedly out there, but the media won't air it. Not even Fox News. Well, see, that's what's interesting. I mean, I personally know people, many people actually who were once in the gay lifestyle, totally sold out to the gay lifestyle, who are no longer in the gay lifestyle. Some of them experience no same-sex attraction. Some of them still experience some same-sex attraction. But those stories are absolutely censored from the culture, from the media. And I think to myself, In a country like America, that's weird and wrong because there are people who would get hope from those stories.

But obviously, the activists you're talking about are saying, no, no, no, we don't want that hope to exist. We want one path to exist like it or not. That, to me, is fundamentally an American, and it steps on people's rights in a number of ways. It does. You're exactly right. You hit the nail in the head. These rights are precious to Americans. Well, let me give you your, for instance, as well, I would fight for the LGBTs for their right to live the way and believe the way they believe they truly are. But we don't get the same thing in return. And that addresses the fundamental problem in America around free speech and other rights that you just mentioned.

Well, yeah, there's an irony because there was a time in America, of course, when people who had same sex attractions were demonized by the white. our culture and treated very, very poorly. And I think we have to say that was wrong. Even if somebody is different than you are or doing something, you still have to treat them with dignity. And so clearly there's a lot of anger. And from that anger comes this tip for tat, well, now we're going to get ours. Now we're going to pay you back. That's not right either. Two wrongs don't make a right. In other words, if we want to have, if we want to respect each other, then the fair thing to do is to try to have an open conversation about this. Exactly.

And I've done that sometimes in debates with the people who had courage over the past few years to debate these issues. And it was wonderful. But it's so few and far between. I worry about the dangers of American freedoms being taking away because people have to know. On the media or in newspapers

or in everyday lives and churches, people have to know what's available to them. We can't just create a society where we get to do. tell everybody else what they think. That's more like communism. Oh, there's no question. And I guess, again, it doesn't even matter what people think about the issue. Like there's some people that could think, I think same-sex attraction is great. I would disagree, but I say they have the right to think that.

But what amazes me is that if you have, let's say, a young man experiencing some same-sex attraction, and he gets the idea that maybe there's a way that I could either lessen this or get rid of it. and I would like to do that. Whether you agree with him or don't, surely you should allow him to explore that. But the narrative has been, no, it's going to be devastating. You hear all these horror stories of shock therapy, and we never get to have that conversation.

We never get to have that possibility. Exactly. And let me speak to that since you brought that up, the issue of harm. It's ludicrous. I've been around the country in about 20 states. I've heard all the, quote, evidence of harm. none of the people who testify in state legislatures ever,

and I mean ever, give you names, dates, people, how, when, where, except for a few isolated cases of some kind of backwoods religious boot camps where they torture people. Well, let me make it really clear for your listeners that that is not professional therapy. There is no harm. Is anything like that in professional therapy? We don't electroshock people.

We don't shave them. Let's go to a break here because this is too important. Folks, we're going to be right back. We're talking to David. Pickup about an important subject. Stick around. Hi, folks. These uncertain times can cause uncertain gut slowdown.

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Get the t.com. It is so worth it. Get the t-e-a.com. Hey there, folks. I'm talking to David Pickup. His world is, he's a licensed marriage and family therapist. David, you're saying that the therapy you're talking about that has been banned is nothing like these horror stories that we hear from some fundamentalist Christian

camp where they shame the kids or beat the kids or whatever the heck it is. I don't know. But nobody's advocating for that. You certainly aren't advocating for that. And in your practice, you certainly don't do anything like that. So why does this narrative continue to get play about shock therapy and damage? It's, you will never hear the other side of the story. In fact, outside of this conversation right now, I cannot think where I've ever heard the other side of the story in any mainstream outlet. Well, I believe it's because of both deeply personal reasons and also political reasons. Politically, these activists will do anything.

And when I say anything, I mean anything to get what they want, even if it takes robbing the rights of people to get what they want. Then personally, in my opinion, as a licensed psychotherapist, they're reacting from a very shame-based victim mindset that says that these people are out to get them. like me and my colleagues, other people who believe in churches that believe the same general thing as we do about the nature of sexuality. They're reacting from a fear-based standpoint. So God bless them, but that is not what we do. Part of that issue is their own. And in my opinion, that's part of the shame-based issues that come from childhood. Well, so you made a comment right at the beginning of this program that you have seen in your practice, genuine results in many, many cases. I remember years ago, Dr. Jeff Satanova wrote a book called

Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth. And he talked about his own practice as a psychiatrist, in some cases, dealing with these things. And he says, look, sometimes it's very difficult. Sometimes I don't get any results. But in some cases, I do get results. And I think even if you've got you know, 25% people would say, hey, I would try it because this is something that doesn't make me happy. I want to, if I'm a guy, I want to marry a woman, I want to have kids, can I get help? Now in many states, the answer is absolutely not. Now, so what has your experience been with regard to the success rate? The bottom line is, is that reintegration therapy, even if you want to just call it plain change therapy, really works. Not just behavioral change, emotional change.

Why? Because homosexuality is not inborn. And so what reintegrative therapy does is go underneath to the causes, severe inferiority issues in childhood, severely unmet needs in childhood for love, same-sex love affirmation approval. And also in at least 50% of the cases, sexual abuse has been a background for their later puvesant sexual practice. How many cases? About 50. The research says 50 to 70-ish spent. That's very dramatic. I had somebody on this program talking about this. I think it was Bobby Lopez.

That idea, again, is not something that one ever hears. It is as politically incorrect as can be. The idea that sexual abuse can lead someone to become homosexually inclined, that is not something one can say. it's offensive and yet you're telling me these are facts that this is how many percentage of people of same-sex attraction have experienced molestation at least 50 percent i mean i've not heard that that's kind of mind-blown right and don't believe me look it up for yourselves folks anyone who's listening they can just look it up for themselves they go to uh narth dot com for the journal of sexuality volumes 1 through 7, that's N-A-R-T-H.com.

N-A-R-T-H.com. Right. That's the old name. The alliance is the new name, but that's the quickest way to get there. It's the same website. And when you go to that, you'll find a lot of compiled research over many decades, including the most recent research. And those are the stories that include, or those are the research issues and studies that include statistics just like this.

So anyone can find out this information. Getting back to what you're saying my client's experience, especially because of the new therapy advances that had come across, which not a lot of people know yet, the past two years. Therapy now is like therapy on steroids. It was good before. But now it is so dramatically faster and more profound because I'll just term it, the Nicolosi Clinic, Joseph Nicolosi, Dr. Dr. Nicolosi,

was the originator of real repair therapy. Well, it's been so built upon now over the past few years, there's ways to heal trauma even faster and deal with those issues even more profoundly. And so the time that a person spends in therapy is drastically lower now. But their emotional experiences are emotional change experiences. When a guy looks up after, let's say, a few months of these processes and tells me, which has happened, Eric, that I don't feel an attraction together. porn anymore. Why would I do that? Why am I trying to get my masculinity from some fantasy that doesn't exist? I feel good about my own sense of self and my own body. That's exactly what my client are telling me. And that's why those stories are on my website. David, pickup, LMFD.com.

Yeah, tell me your website again. It's David, pick up like pickup truck. David, pick up, P-I-C-U-P-U-P-L-M-F-T. What does that stand for? So it's David Pickup, LM-M-F-T, as in licensed, Married. family therapist. Okay, L-M-F-T, David-pick-up-L-M-F-T-com. David-pick-up L-M-F-T-com. And you said narth.com, N-A-R-T-H dot com. And what is the new name, the Alliance? The Alliance, yes. We're strut out across the world and now... What's the website for the Alliance if we don't... It's the same website, yeah. But I'm saying what's the, is their website name?

It should be the... I think it's rather... along, but it's okay, never mind, never mind. We're going to go to a break. We're going to be right back, folks. I'm talking to David Pickup. Folks, I got some embarrassing news to share with you, but you know what? This is just the kind of a show where I don't care. I'm willing to lay my heart, you know, on the line. Here's the issue. Mike Lindell with my pillow, you may, you may notice that I have a bobble hell of him near me. He's here to remind all of us that when you go to mypillow.com, you may, you may notice that, you may notice that, you may, you may not You get whopping discounts if you use the code Eric.

Okay. Now, there are a lot of people who haven't done that and we have your names here. And Chris Heim's and Albin pointed out to me that there's like three pages of you whose first name is Eric. You yourself. I mean, that's humiliating for me that even though your name is Eric, you're still not willing to use the code Eric. I mean, if you don't want to use it because it's my name, use it because it's your name. The point is that I see who you are, and I just feel humiliated by this. Please go to mypillar.com.

It's okay, Mike. It's going to be okay. Go to mypillar.com. Use the code, Eric. You're going to get whopping savings in really high-quality products. Did I mention that? Thank you. Folks, we're talking about a topic that's about as hot as it gets.

You don't normally get to talk about this, but I have this attitude that it's the United States of America, and we should talk about things like this, like this, while we're talking about sexuality, we're talking about same-sex attraction, and whether it's possible to change. I'm talking to David Pickup, a licensed marriage and family therapist. David, you, so you're making this claim with which I think I would agree, that everyone is created by God to have attraction to the opposite sex. but something happens. Is it, you know, it can be a trauma, as you were saying, all kinds of things, sexual abuse.

But is it not possible that somebody, since we're all original sinners, so to speak, right? We all have all kinds of tendencies in every direction, and we're not born perfect. We're born broken, let's say, right? So isn't it possible that some people are born with an attraction to the same sex? anything is possible, anything. And human psychology will always be a soft science. It's never going to be a hard science like mathematics or biology, because we can't put human beings in test tubes.

So that means we need more research. And what the research shows, Eric, over the past decades of endless research into proving inborn causality or genetic causality, it's not there. Finally, the APAs of the world have admitted that they don't know why. homosexual feelings occur. They can't prove that it's inborn or genetic or epigenetic or hormonal. There are some good studies out there that are worth looking at, but in the end, there is no proof of genetic causation or inborn causation. So what that means is there has to be emotional causes. And wouldn't you know it, the guys, every one of them, every single one of them

tell me the same story. Their childhoods were in various stages a mess, filled with emotional abuse, neglect, serious senses of inferiority, sometimes sexual abuse. And when we go below through psychodynamic processes, we go below to their attractions, and that person discovers that or already knows it, frankly, instinctively, when they have that experience in the office, they heal from those traumas. They heal from those traumas much faster now because of the newer methods. But the same thing happens. they move into the authentic, untramatized, confident, self-assured state.

And when they're in that state, they find out who they truly are. That's what every client is telling me. And they're also telling me they either don't have sexual attractions to the same sex then or they do, but they're so minimal, it's like, what's the big deal? I mean, this is, again, this is really hot stuff. I imagine that there are so many people that are just deeply offended, even that we would have this conversation. But I'm offended that they're offended.

There, there you go. Okay, so when we're talking about this, how many states have outlawed what you do? I believe it's the current records, I believe I'm right to see. Well, it's either 20 or 21. I think it's 20. It's no less than 20,

which is just horrendous to think about it. Those states, what might be obvious, is that they're the more, much more liberal states as opposed to the conservative states. And it still seems to me, though, that, you know, those states that have not outlawed it, one hears so little of this kind of therapy that I'm thinking that if I were struggling with this or someone I knew were struggling with this, I wouldn't know where to begin to look for help. I mean, that's one of the reasons I want to have you on the program. Where do people go if they say, I, you know,

I know someone who may benefit from this or may be open to exploring this. Where would they go? Thank you. I'll tell your listeners and yourself exactly where to go. One place, obviously, I'm going to tell my website is David Pickup, LMFT.com. Within those pages, you'll find a massive amount of resources that will give other resources besides myself to learn all about these issues, to hear my articles and see the videos I have on my website, and that's where they go. But here's something else.

Those of you who in your vast amount of listeners out there, your listeners, Eric, if there are licensed therapists out there in the country who are listening, the business is booming, just so you know. So we need more therapists who are expertly trained. And that's what that website contacting me can do. So I would like to please ask anyone who's interested in training, they'll become an expert just like we are in dealing with these issues, whether you're a psychotherapist for a. a church or whether you're just a lay person, it doesn't matter. The training is out there for you. We do that. And you'll become a great person for a resource for this group of people that you're talking about.

These people need help because they're being told they have to be a certain way, which is completely against theories of the self. Being forced by people into an ideology is absolutely un-American. and it's not therapeutically ethical as well. Well, yeah, that's the other issue. So your website is David pick up, L-M-F-T-com, and then, of course, you mentioned narth.com, N-A-R-T-H dot com.

So give us an example, you know, of a story. Somebody comes to you and, you know, how old are they? What does it, you know, what's, what, how does it, you know, what's a fairly typical story? I'll be happy to. I'll give you two stories because they're so both horrific and magnificent. Case of a 16-year-old boy, not too long ago. Came to me. He thought he was gay.

He didn't really believe in it, but he thought he was. And sure enough, we found out after some weeks of therapy that when he was small, his father just about whipped him to death. His father was so narcissistic that he couldn't give his son any of these needs. His father would force the child to be held by dad. And the son, one night when he was about 16, his dad, when he told his dad, hey, I think I'm gay, his dad tackled him to the ground. Frightened this boy so much that he ran out into the neighborhood without his shoes.

And he was so terrified, which is an act of terrorization, the same kinds of things. no real male need fulfillment for love, affirmation, approval, all that trauma. That's what bubbled up to the surface. Long story short, through extremely compassion. No hoodwinking him at all to stop him from being gay, which is what we don't do. All the work that he did. And now he increasingly, in a natural way, feels good about himself or authentic, and his homerotic feelings are, I'd say at this point, probably,

almost not even there in a natural sense. We're going to have to go to a quick break. We'll be right back. Folks, I'm talking to David. Pickup the website. David, pickup LMFT.com. Hey, the folks, I'm talking to David Pickup. We're talking about same-sex attraction,

whether it can be changed. David, this is what you do for a living. So you just told us a story. I don't know if you were done with that first story. Yeah, I was. And I was just about to get into you into the adult story. Not too long ago, I've had a great man, about 35, happily married, but he had a lot of same-sex attractions from early, early years,

had just put a pressure cooker on them for all these years. Well, long story short, it broke one night last year, and he had sex with another guy. It totally upset his marriage, as you can imagine. It really made things just in a state of upheaval. Well, he came to me. We hit the causes immediately. And within two or three sessions, I know it sounds like voodoo, it's not. We use the of the human mind created by God to heal itself is the principle. But within a few sessions, he actually experienced an automatic lessening of his homerotic feelings. And the homerotic episodes that used to charge him erotically, he just doesn't feel anymore. And he feels proud inside himself as a man.

Not proud because he doesn't have homosexual feelings. Nobody should shame themselves just because they have homerotic feelings. But he feels good within his own masculine wholeness, in his own body. And when that happens, homerotic feelings either dissipate or automatically reduce. And many times, in his case, his relationship with his wife is so much more pleasant and sexual and happy. The man is expressing tears in session because things are so joyful for him. Well, again, you know, whatever one thinks about any of this, the idea that you couldn't get help, if you wanted the help, that to me is the core. horror, that we are living in a culture where talking about these things is foreboughton,

we're trying to figure out of what one might think about this. You never hear this kind of stuff. And I've gone out of my way on this program, just because it seems such a scandal to me that in America, we would say, shut up. We don't want to hear what you have to say on this issue. So it's wonderful to talk to you just about a minute and a half left. What else? can you tell us that we haven't touched on and we'll have you back? Well, what people need to know is that there are more and more cases of people who are experiencing change. The more the LGBT activists, I'll just use that term for one of the better term, put a lid on these stories, the more they're coming out. And so Voicesofchange.net has over a hundred stories written by

clients themselves who are either in the middle of change or who have experienced already the end of their change period, whatever you'd like to call it. But they're both stories of heartache and great victory and success. And so that's probably what people need to know. Besides the information on these websites I've given you and encouraging licensed therapists to contact me, I'll contact you within 24 hours. That's what it says on my website. But also these other websites where stories have changed, that's what people like Google,

the other major companies, Twitter, Amazon, their business. banning books now. If you can believe that, Eric, they're banning change books. And so the people need to know more and more about how virulent this activism is that's taking away. Oh, no, that's again, that's why I said, I want to have you on. This is, uh, it's a scandal. You said that the website is Voices of Change.net. Correct. Voices of change.net. It really is important to get this information out there. So I'm just thrilled that you exist, that you're doing what you're doing. I'm glad that if somebody lives in Houston where you are, they can find you. But I'm also glad that you're leading people to others who are out there. This is a major problem all over the world. And we're just so grateful

to you. David, pick up. Thank you for what you do. Thank you for your time. And we'd love to have you back to continue this important conversation. Anytime, Eric, and thank you. I'm honored to be on.