The Eric Metaxas Show - David Pickup (Encore)

Episode Date: January 15, 2021

Licensed marriage and family therapist David Pickup talks about how people who are seeking to change their same-sex attraction are being thwarted in their efforts by far-left cultural and political forces. (Encore Presentation)

Welcome to the Eric Mataxis show. It's the show you've all been waiting for. Until now. Until literally right now. Now. Literally right now. Literally. Now your host, Eric Mataxis.

Folks, welcome to the Erick Mataxis show. You know, in this Christmas season, we like to do something genuinely spectacular. There's evil in the world. And every now and again, We get to partner with CSI, Christian Solidarity International, to combat evil in a way that is palpable. That is absolutely possible. We can free people from slavery. Doesn't seem real, does it?

It's real. We in America, anyone who's listening to this program can do something about it. It is a spectacular opportunity. And I wanted my friend, Kevin McCullough, to tell us more about the opportunity because he knows about this stuff. He's worked with CSI. Kevin, welcome. Hey, Eric, it seems like I'm on your show every day these days. Why not? It's good to be back. Hey, it's fun. Let's keep, let's keep going. It's more fun to talk about what great things we can do than about, you know, how difficult everything is in the United States and all the, all our problems. This is something I keep saying. It's like what, you know, the Jews call a a mitzvah. You can do a good act. It is just a spectacular thing that you can just do this thing with a certain amount of money. You can do this.

this good thing and there's nothing to say about it. It's just all good and wonderful. And I think when you have that opportunity, you're sort of obliged to take it. Well, you know, it's funny, Eric, because you know, you and I live in the New York area

and we rub shoulders with people that a lot of times disagree with us on a lot of things from the basis of our faith and worldview. But one thing I've never found any of them willing to criticize for is the involvement that I've had to talk about CSI and tell others about CSI and the releasing people from slavery. And I don't know if this will come through on the camera,

but I wanted you to see this picture of a woman named A Buk. I want you to notice something about her face. Eric, what is that right there in the middle of her face? It looks like pure joy as expressed in a smile, but it's more than a smile. I mean, that's kind of an amazing. It's one of the most happiest expressions, I think, that has ever been captured in photography.

And for those that are listening, she has this huge smile. And if you knew what this woman had been through prior to taking that picture, you would say that that smile is in fact a miracle because that woman had no reason to have a smile that big on her face. She's also holding in this same picture a bag that says CSI on it. And people may be wondering, well, what is what is that bag? Why does it have CSI plastered on it? well, that is a part of what's called the sack of hope that is given to these women that are liberated from slavery and when they are begun to be relocated back to where their family originated from or where their family is at. And we've never talked about this element of it, Eric, but when you go and retrieve the slave and you bring them to the recovery camp at the border of South Sudan and then they have some time to recover, then there's this last part of the journey, which is the going back home. but it is unlike any homecoming you've ever seen in your life.

You know, this year, Mr. Fauci is saying, don't do Christmas. He's saying no Christmas for you. And we're holding to just the opposite of that in CSI. We're saying, let's make Christmas big for these slaves. And when they come in, they hold a party like you've never seen. The entire village comes out. There is a huge, enormous gathering of people that come out and they sing hymns. They sing hymns praising God for the.

return home of this loved one that they had. And it is absolutely unlike anything that has ever been conceived of in this particular slave's heart. Because for the years previous to that, all they have known is heartache. All they have known is indentured labor. All they've known is sexual abuse and verbal abuse and physical abuse. And at the end of the day, to come home to have people who love you that sing praises to God because you are free and capable of living your life again. It is that mitzvah that you were talking about. It is unlike any other good that I've ever witnessed. And it just makes my heart so full.

I mean, I keep having to step outside myself. You know, you think this can't be real. It's so hard to communicate these things because we live in a country. We are so blessed with freedom. We can't begin to imagine what it. it would be like to live in a place where slavery is possible. It just, it doesn't, it seems like, you know, talking about living in the Iron Age or something, it doesn't seem possible from where we are.

And yet, right now it's happening. Right now, women like the woman you just showed on camera, and again, there's a radio show, but we also are on YouTube. So go to our YouTube channel, the Irkwinter Texas show, and you can see these things. But that photo, it just knocks me back because I think that's a real. person. That is obviously a person who is experiencing a kind of joy that doesn't seem possible in this world because we've never experienced the evil that she's experienced. And we're able to do something about it. And I want your listeners to understand something here. You've been in coordination

with CSI. There are negotiations underway for 350 slaves, just like a book, to be released. And those negotiations are well down the path of ready to be liberated. And I'm thinking, what better Christmas present could you give a human being than to literally give them the gift of life back that they had robbed from them? Many of these women were kidnapped as teenagers or even younger. They have seen the worst dark side of humanity, repetitive rape, female genital mutilation, things that you and I wouldn't even say in front of our daughters, much less, ever expect them to occur. And yet, that's what the life of these women have endured over and over and over again. When CSI finds them, when they talk to the slave owners and they say, hey, here's a cattle for your vaccine that you desperately need and can't get. Just let me have the freedom of this woman in exchange. And then they make that exchange.

That's a powerful thing. But then to go back and to be given the sack of hope, which includes everything they need to start their new life, enough grain to feed them for a year, enough seed to plant for a few, years, fishing tools, micro-commerce abilities with a she-goat and the ability to not only produce milk and dairy products, but also to then breed other goats. You've got, you've got an opportunity to literally give this woman who's in all likelihood for the past number of years not had anything of her own, no personal possession, no dignity, no privacy, no ability to even keep her own name. Most of these women are given an Islamic name by the Islamic, the Islamist slave owner, and they are told, if you even repeat your name, if you, if you remember your name, we'll kill you. This is the opportunity to literally give them back

everything that their life has had robbed from it. And for only $250? I mean, I mean, you know, Kevin, I just, I just thought of two things real quick. First of all, anybody old enough to remember the mini-series roots in the 70s, we remember that famous moment where Kuntakinté is insisting that is his African name. And the slave owner is forcing him doing a horrible thing. I won't even bring it up on the air. But to take your name from you. And these are Christians being told, you are now going to be Muslim. You're never going to be able to say your Christian name. I want to say, by the way, anybody listening, if you want to share your faith with someone, can you imagine if you're able to say to somebody in your name, I gave enough money to

free someone from slavery in Africa. You want to talk about what a witness of the love of Jesus that is, to somebody who maybe doesn't know anything about the God of the Bible or thinks Christians are just a bunch of cooks or something, you express your love in that way with your own money and do it in the name of someone, even if you can't do $250, whatever it is. That says something really important about what it means to be a person of the book, a person of the Bible, a person who worships the God that died for us. So, I mean, that's why it's such a wonderful thing to do around Christmas. Well, and I think that if you, if you ask yourself today, and maybe you're somewhere on the spectrum, maybe you said, well, I can't do 250, but could I give a monthly

gift of $25 for the next 10 months? Hey, that would work. You would liberate one human life. But I know that there are a few people, Eric, listening within your listening audience, that could do $25,000 and literally liberate a thousand or a hundred slaves. And the joy that you'll get, whether you're on one end of that spectrum, another, by taking the step to do it, is really undiscribes. I'm going to give the phone number. Folks, you can call right now, 888-253-3522. Go to our website metaxistalk.com.

You'll see the CSI banner or call 888-253. 3522. Thank you, Kevin. Hey, folks. Welcome back. We have on a very special guest. His name is David Pickup. He's licensed, forgive me marriage and family therapist. And first of all, David, welcome with the program. Thank you. I'm honored to be here. Eric. It's really a very important issue. that we're going to talk about and that you've devoted your life to. Why don't you tell my audience what it is that you do and then we can get into it? Me and my colleagues are the current experts in the world for reintegrative therapy.

Reintegrative therapy is founded on the belief, like all our clients believe as well, that homosexual feelings and transgenderism are not inborn. They're not genetic. There is no science that proves causation like that. some people even believe it's created by God. The people that come to our offices or this therapy experience real and lasting emotional change when we go to the primary trauma issues underneath those feelings that are creating those feelings. So the simple story is you treat what the issues are underneath and the feelings themselves resolve or disappear.

In every 100% of my client's cases, they, at the very least, least experience a natural, automatic, either dissipation of or significant reduction in homerotic feelings. And that fits the narrative, which says these issues are based on trauma, not something that's genetic or end. Now, this is hot stuff. In other words, I know that as you say this, there are people who are absolutely outraged at these claims. And so what has happened, of course, in our culture over the last number of years is that people have been banned states, have banned this kind of conversion therapy

or reintegrative therapy. And what bothers me, I just want to frame this because it's so complicated. We all know that sexuality is very complicated and what one is attracted to, even what heterosexuals are attracted to and not attracted to. It's just, it's a huge mystery. But we do know that there are people,

who have same-sex attractions, who also have attractions to people of the opposite sex. There is all kinds of complicated versions of people's sexual attraction. And what these laws are saying is, in effect, no, you are born this way and you must go with this. In other words, if you have a flicker of same-sex attraction, they say, well, that means you're gay and you've got to go in that direction. So if somebody says, okay, I've had some flickers of same-sex attraction or have had some strong same-sex attraction, but I'm not comfortable with that. In a free country like America, is there a way that I can work on that? Is there a way that I could lessen my same-sex attraction? whether you agree with a biblical view of sexuality or don't,

it would seem to me that most Americans would say, hey, people can do what they want. If I want to get a facelift, I can get a facelift. If I can, you want to get a tattoo, I can get a tattoo. I mean, in other words, we have tremendous freedom in America. But what you're saying and what I'm understanding is that the government is now saying, no, if you are someone who wants to go to a, therapist or a psychiatrist or psychologist to deal with this, we're telling you, no, you can't.

The state says no. So it's just a wild place that we're in, and it's a complicated subject. That's true, Eric, but it's also rather simple, too. The LGBT activists, not necessarily the rank in file, but the LGBT activists whose influence is just virulent over the country, they're actually taking away rights of children and ultimately adults because they believe this is the foundation of everything. You can't miss this, that homosexuality and transgenderism are inborn and that to change them in any way shape or form would be absolutely harmful, any kind of change therapy. Well, so the argument really is on that foundation. You resolve that foundation and the whole argument falls of what they're trying to. trying to do. And sure enough, wouldn't you know it, there is no scientific proof for inborn

causality on any of this stuff. And there is so much evidence that indicates even the American Psychological Association puts out in their sexual handbook that sometimes people's sexual feelings change. And so why do people who are these activists, why are they destroying the constitution of the United States in terms of free speech for children and later adults saying you can't have the therapy that really fits your authentic self. Well, the reason I say this is complicated is because that we haven't been allowed to have an open conversation on any of these issues for a couple of decades, right? In other words, what's the last time you heard anybody talk about the fact

that one of the two people who kind of broke lesbianism into the mainstream, Ellen DeGeneres and her then-girlfriend Anne Hage, you don't ever hear much about, oh, by the way, Ann Hache is now a heterosexual and is married and you don't hear that because to say that implies that people can change or that maybe it isn't imborn in some cases. In other words, it implies a number of things that make this kind of narrative that's been shoved down America's and the West's throats. it makes that narrative look shaky or threatened. And that's what bothers me. In other words, that even to have a conversation about this, there's so many issues and we simply never hear about these issues.

You just mentioned three of them. That's exactly right. You hit the nails on the head. And who's responsible in part? Largely it's the people in power. And that's what means activism that I mentioned, but also the major media refuses to have the content. conversation and our rights are being destroyed while all this unknowable or unfathomable information

is supposedly out there, but the media won't, won't air it, not even Fox News. Well, see, that's what's interesting. I mean, I personally know people, many people actually, who were once in the gay lifestyle, totally sold out to the gay lifestyle, who are no longer in the gay lifestyle. Some of them experience no same-sex attraction. Some of them still experience them, same sex attraction. But those stories are absolutely censored from the culture, from the media. And I think to myself, in a country like America, that's weird and wrong, because there are people who would get hope from those stories. But obviously the activists you're talking about are saying, no, no, no, we don't want that hope to exist. We want one path

to exist like it or not. That, to me, is fundamentally an American, and it steps on people's on a number of ways. It does. You're exactly right. You hit the nail on the head. These rights are precious to Americans. And well, let me give you your, for instance, as well, I would fight for the LGBT's for their right to live the way and believe the way they believe they truly are.

But we don't get the same thing in return. And that addresses the fundamental problem in America around free speech and other rights that you just mentioned. Well, yeah, there's an irony because there was a time in America, of course, when people who had same sex attractions were demonized by the wider culture and treated very, very poorly. And I think we have to say that was wrong. Even if somebody is different than you are or doing something, you still have to treat them with dignity. And so clearly there's a lot of anger. And from that anger comes this tip for tat, well, now we're going to get ours.

Now we're going to pay you back. That's not right either. Two wrongs don't make a right. In other words, if we want to have, if we want to respect each other, then the fair thing to do is to try to have an open conversation about this. Exactly. And I've done that sometimes in debates with the people who had courage over the past few years to debate these issues.

And it was wonderful. But it's so few and far between. I worry about the dangers of American freedoms being taking away. Because people just, people have to know. on the media or in newspapers or in everyday lives and churches, people have to know what's available to them. We can't just create a society where we get to tell everybody else what they think. That's more like communism.

Oh, there's no question. And I guess, again, it doesn't even matter what people think about the issue. Like there's some people that could think, I think same sex attraction is great. I would disagree, but I say they have the right to think that. But what amazes me is that if you have, let's say a young man experiencing some same-sex attraction, and he gets the idea that maybe there's a way that I could either lessen this or get rid of it, and I would like to do that. Whether you agree with him or don't, surely you should allow him to explore that. But the narrative has been, no, it's going to be

devastating. You hear all these horror stories of shock therapy, and we never get to have that conversation. We never get to have that possibility. Exactly. And let's just. And let's let me speak to that since you brought that up, the issue of harm. It's ludicrous. I've been around the country in about 20 states. I've heard all the quote evidence of harm. None of the people who testify in state legislatures ever, and I mean ever give you names, dates, people, how, when, where, except for a few isolated cases of some kind of backwoods religious boot camps where they torture people. Well, let me make it really clear for your listeners that that is not professional therapy. There is no harm.

That is anything like that in professional therapy. We don't electric shop people. We don't shave them. Let's go to a break here because this is too important. Folks, we're going to be right back. We're talking to David Pickup about an important subject. Stick around. Hey there, folks. I'm talking to David Pickup. His world is, he's a licensed marriage and family therapist. David, you're saying that the therapy you're talking about that has been banned is nothing like these horror stories that we hear from some fundamentalist Christian camp

where they shame the kids or beat the kids or whatever the heck it is. I don't know. But nobody's advocating for that. You certainly aren't advocating for that. And in your practice, you certainly don't do anything like that. So why does this narrative continue to at play about shock therapy and damage. You will never hear the other side of the story. In fact, outside of this conversation right now, I cannot think where I've ever heard the other side of the story in any mainstream outlet. Well, I believe it's because of both deeply personal reasons and also political reasons. Politically, these activists will do anything. And when I say anything, I mean anything to get what they want, even if it takes robbing the rights of people to get what

they want. Then personally, in my opinion, as a licensed psychotherapist, they're reacting from a very shame-based victim mindset that says that these people are out to get them, people like me and my colleagues, other people who believe in churches that believe the same general thing as we do about the nature of sexuality. They're reacting from a fear-based standpoint. So God bless them, but that is not what we do. Part of that issue is their own. And in my opinion, that's part of the shame-based issues that come from childhood. Well, so you made a comment right at the beginning of this program that you have seen in your practice genuine results in many, many cases.

I remember years ago, Dr. Jeff Satanova wrote a book called Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth, and he talked about his own practice as a psychiatrist. in some cases dealing with these things. And he says, look, sometimes it's very difficult. Sometimes I don't get any results. But in some cases, I do get results. And I think even if you got, you know, 25% people would say, hey, I would try it because this is something that doesn't make me happy.

I want to, if I'm a guy, I want to marry a woman, I want to have kids. Can I get help? Now in many states, the answer is absolutely not. So what has your experience been with regard to the success rate? The bottom line is that reintegration therapy, even if you want to just call it plain change therapy, really works, not just behavioral change, emotional change. Why? Because homosexuality is not inborn. And so what reintegrative therapy does is go underneath to the causes, severe inferiority issues in childhood, severely unmet needs in childhood for love, same-sex love, affirmation

approval and also in at least 50% of the cases sexual abuse has been a background for their later puvesant sexual fractions how many cases about 50 the research says 50 to 70 ish spent that's very dramatic i had somebody on this program uh talking about this i think it was bobby lopez um that idea again is not something that one ever hears it is as politically incorrect as can be the that sexual abuse can lead someone to become homosexually inclined. That is not something one can say. It's offensive.

And yet you're telling me these are facts, that this is how many percentage of people of same-sex attraction have experienced molestation, at least 50%. I mean, I've not heard that. That's kind of mind-blown. Right. And don't believe me.

Look it up for yourselves, folks. Anyone who's listening, they can just look it up for themselves. They go to narth.com for the Journal of Sexuality, Volumes 1 through 7. That's N-A-R-T-H.com. N-A-R-T-H.com. Right. That's the old name. The alliance is the new name, but that's the quickest way to get there.

It's the same website. And when you go to that, you'll find a lot of compiled research over many decades, including the most recent research. And those are the stories that include, or those are the research issues. and studies that include statistics just like this. So anyone can find out this information. Getting back to what you're saying, my client's experience, especially because of the new therapy advances that had come across,

which not a lot of people know yet, the past two years, therapy now is like therapy on steroids. It was good before. But now it is so dramatically faster and more profound because I'll just term it, at the Nicolosi Clinic. Joseph Nicolosi, Dr. Dr. Nicolosi, was the originator of real repairative therapy. Well, it's been so built upon now

over the past few years, there's ways to heal trauma even faster and deal with those issues even more profoundly. And so the time that a person spends in therapy is drastically lower now, but their emotional experiences are emotional change experiences. When a guy looks up after, let's say, a few months of these processes and tells me, which has happened, Eric, that I don't feel an

attraction to gay porn anymore. Why would I do that? Why am I trying to get my masculinity from some fantasy that doesn't exist? I feel good about my own sense of self and my own body. That's exactly what my clients are telling me. And that's why those stories are on my website. David, pick up, LMFD.com. Yeah, tell me your website again. It's David, pick up like pickup truck. David, pick up, P-I-C-U-U-P-U-P, U-P, H-E, and. LM-F-T, what does that stand for? Right. So it's David Pickup, L-M-F-T as in licensed marriage-family therapist.

Okay, L-M-F-T, dot com. David-pick-up L-M-F-T-com. And you said, N-A-R-T-H-com. And what is the new name, the Alliance? The Alliance, yes. We're strut out across the world and now... What's the website for the Alliance if we don't... It's the same one.

website, yeah. But I'm saying what is their website name? It should be, I think it's rather long, but it's, never mind, never mind. We're going to go to a break. We're going to be right back, folks. I'm talking to David Pickup. Folks, we're talking about a topic that's about as hot as it gets. You don't normally get to talk about this, but I have this attitude that it's the United States of America, and we should talk about things like this, while we're talking about sexuality. We're talking about same sex attraction and whether it's possible to change. I'm talking to David Pickup, a licensed marriage and family therapist. David, you, so you're making this claim with which I think I would agree that everyone is created by God to have attraction to the opposite sex. But

something happens. Is it, you know, it can be a trauma, as you were saying, all kinds of of things, sexual abuse. But is it not possible that somebody, since we're all original sinners, so to speak, right? We all have all kinds of tendencies in every direction, and we're not born perfect. We're born broken, let's say, right? So isn't it possible that some people are born with an attraction to the same sex? Anything is possible. Anything. And human psychology will always be a soft science. It's never going to be a hard science, like, like mathematics or biology because we can't put human beings in test tubes. So that means we need more research.

And what the research shows, Eric, over the past decades of endless research into proving inborn causality or genetic causality, it's not there. Finally, the APAs of the world have admitted that they don't know why homosexual feelings occur. They can't prove that it's inborn or genetic or epigenetic or hormonal. there are some good studies out there that are worth looking at, but in the end, there is no proof of genetic causation or inborn causation. So what that means is there has to be emotional causes. And wouldn't you know it, the guys, every one of them, every single one of them tell me the same story.

Their childhoods were in various stages a mess, filled with emotional abuse, neglect, serious senses of inferiority. sometimes sexual abuse. And when we go below, through psychodynamic processes, we go below to their attractions, and that person discovers that, or already knows it, frankly, instinctively, when they have that experience in the office, they heal from those traumas.

They heal from those traumas much faster now because of the newer methods. But the same thing happens. They move into the authentic, untramatized, confident, self-assured state. And when they're in that state, They find out who they truly are. That's what every client is telling me.

And they're also telling me they either don't have sexual attractions to the same sex then or they do, but they're so minimal. It's like, what's the big deal? I mean, this is, again, this is really hot stuff. I imagine that there are so many people that are just deeply offended, even that we would have this conversation. But I'm offended that they're offended. There, there you go.

Okay, so when we're talking. about this, how many states have outlawed what you do? I believe it's the current, the current records, I believe I'm right to see. Well, it's either 20 or 21. I think it's 20. It's no less than 20, which is just horrendous to think about it. Those states, what might be obvious is that they're the more, much more liberal states as opposed to the conservative states. And it still seems to me, though that, you know, those states that have not outlawed it, one hears so little of this kind of therapy that I'm thinking that if I were struggling with this or someone I knew were struggling with this, I wouldn't know where to begin to look for help. I mean, that's one of the

reasons I want to have you on the program. Where do people go if they say, I, you know, I know someone who may benefit from this or may be open to exploring this? Where would they go? Thank you. I'll tell your listeners and yourself exactly where to go. One place, obviously, I'm going to tell my website is David Pickup, LMFT.com. Within those pages, you'll find a massive amount of resources that will give other resources besides myself to learn all about these issues, to hear my articles and see the videos I have on my website, and that's where they go. But here's something else. Those of you who, in your vast amount of listeners out there, your listeners, Eric, if there are licensed therapists out there in the country who are

listening. The business is booming, just so you know. So we need more therapists who are expertly trained. And that's what that website contacting me can do. So I would like to please ask anyone who's interested in training. They'll become an expert just like we are in dealing with these issues, whether you're a psychotherapist for a church or whether you're just a lay person. It doesn't matter. The training is out there for you. We do that. And you'll become a great person. for a resource for this group of people that you're talking about. These people need help because they're being told they have to be a certain way, which is completely against theories of the self.

Being forced by people into an ideology is absolutely un-American, and it's not therapeutically ethical as well. Well, yeah, that's the other issue. So your website is David Pickup, LMFT.com. and then, of course, you mentioned narth.com, N-A-R-T-H-com. So give us an example, you know, of a story. Somebody comes to you and, you know, how old are they? What, what is it, you know, what's a fairly typical story?

I'll be happy to. I'll give you two stories because they're so both horrific and magnificent. a case of a 16-year-old boy, not too long ago, came to me. He thought he was gay. He didn't really believe in it, but he thought he was. And sure enough, we found out, after some weeks of therapy, that when he was small, his father just about whipped him to death. His father was so narcissistic that he couldn't give his son any of these needs.

His father would force the child to be held by dad. and the son one night when he was about 16, his dad, when he told his dad, hey, I think I'm gay, his dad tackled him to the ground. Frightened this boy so much that he ran out into the neighborhood without his shoes, and he was so terrified, which is an act of terrorization, the same kinds of things, no real male need fulfillment for love, affirmation, approval,

all that trauma. That's what bubbled up to the surface. Long story short, through it. extremely compassion. No hoodwinking him at all to stop him from being gay, which is what we don't do. All the work that he did. And now he increasingly, in a natural way,

feels good about himself or authentic, and his homerotic feelings are, I'd say at this point probably almost not even there. In a natural sense. We're going to have to go to a quick break. We'll be right back. Folks, I'm talking to David. Pick up the website.

David, pick up LMFT.com. Come. Hey, the folks, I'm talking to David Pickup. We're talking about same-sex attraction, whether it can be changed. David, this is what you do for a living. So you just told us this story. I don't know if you were done with that first story. Yeah, I was, and I was just about to get into you into the adult story.

Not too long ago, I've had a great man about 35, happily married, but he had a lot of same-sex attractions from early, early years, had just put a pressure cooker on them for all these years. Well, long story short, it broke one night. last year and he had sex with another guy. It totally upset his marriage, as you can imagine. It really made things just in a state of upheaval. Well, he came to me.

We hit the causes immediately. And within two or three sessions, I know it sounds like voodoo, it's not. We use the power of the human mind created by God to heal itself is the principle. But within a few sessions, he actually experienced an automatic lessening of his homerotic feelings and the homerotic episodes that used to charge him erotically, he just doesn't feel anymore. And he feels proud inside himself as a man. Not proud because he doesn't have homosexual feelings. Nobody should shame themselves just because they have homerotic feelings, but he feels good within his own masculine wholeness, in his own body. And when that happens, homerotic feelings

either dissipate or automatically reduce. And many times in his case, his relationship with his wife is so much more pleasant and sexual and happy. The man is expressing tears in session because things are so joyful for him. Well, again, you know, whatever one thinks about any of this, the idea that you couldn't get help if you wanted to help, that to me is the core horror, that we are living in a culture. We're talking about these things is foreboughton. We're trying to figure out what one might think about this. You never hear this kind of stuff. And I've gone out of my way on this program,

just because it seems such a scandal to me that in America, we would say, shut up. We don't want to hear what you have to say on this issue. So it's wonderful to talk to you. Just about a minute and a half left. What else can you tell us that we haven't touched on and we'll have you back?

Well, what people need to know is that there are more and more cases of people who are experiencing change, the more the LGBT activists, I'll just use that term for one about a better term, put a lid on these stories, the more they're coming out. And so VoicesofChange.net

has over 100 stories written by clients themselves who are either in the middle of change or who have experienced already the end of their change period, whatever you'd like to call it. But they're both stories of heartache and great victory and success. And so that's probably what people, need to know. Besides the information on these websites I've given you and encouraging

licensed therapists to contact me, I'll contact you within 24 hours. That's what it says on my website. But also these other websites where stories have changed, that's what people like Google, the other major companies, Twitter, Amazon, they're banning books now, if you can believe that, Eric, they're banning change books. And so people need to know more and more about how virulent this activism is that's taking way. Oh, no, that's again, that's why I said, I want to have you on. This is, uh, it's a scandal.

Uh, you said that the website is voices of change. Dot net. Correct. Voices of change. Dot net. It really is important, uh, to get this information out there. So I'm just thrilled that you exist, that you're doing what you're doing. Uh, I'm glad that if somebody lives in, uh, Houston where you are, uh, they can find you.

but I'm also glad that you're leading people to others who are out there. This is a major problem all over the world, and we're just so grateful to you. David, pick up, thank you for what you do. Thank you for your time, and we'd love to have you back to continue this important conversation. Anytime, Eric, and thank you. I'm honored to be honest.