The Eric Metaxas Show - Douglas Mackey

Episode Date: March 19, 2024

Social media influencer Douglas Mackey was sentenced to 7 months in prison for posting a MEME.

Folks, welcome to the Eric Metaxus show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m. Investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Welcome to the Eric Metaxis show. Do you like your gravy sick and rich and loaded with creamy mushrooms? If no one was looking, would you chug the whole gravy boat? Chug, chug, chug, chug. Stay tuned. Here comes Mr. Chugel himself, Eric Ma Taxi! Hey there, folks. Welcome to the program.

Chris, welcome to your program. You're the producer. Welcome. Thank you very much. I got a lot. We have two exciting interviews today, but three guests. Just kidding. Just two guests.

Both exciting. Both exciting. In hour one today, we're talking to someone who is, I mean, you won't believe the story. When I think of what our government is doing, it is so evil, ladies and gentlemen, when you hear the story of Douglas Mackey, it is utterly astonishing. And I say this over and over, Douglas Mackey persecuted by the Biden administration on a level that if it doesn't activate you to do something, I don't know. That means you didn't listen to it. It's amazing. So that's in hour one, Douglas Mackey, an hour two, my dear friend Greg Denham talking about Israel, surprising information.

You're going to hear something very surprising about what goes on in Israel, some good news and some bad news. And this needs prayer. So we're talking to Douglas Mackey in hour one and Greg Denham in hour two. Also, we have a number of sponsors on the program. I thought I should mention them. one of them is a new sponsor the the americans americans for prosperity i laugh why am i laughing because if you've heard me on the program they did something brilliant they got the website bydenomics dot com now let's think of this right bydenomics dot com we know or we should know that

that Bidenomics is bad. It is, it is destroying our economy is, is being destroyed. People are struggling dramatically to, you know, pay for what they could have paid for a few years ago under Trump. It's so bad. But the hilarity is that the Bidenomics, the website, was was, was gotten by Americans for prosperity. So when you go there, you get the truth about the Biden economy. you would have thought that somebody at the White House would have, you know, secured the rights to Bidnomics.com. You'd think that some enterprising young person not smoking dope at the White House that they would have secured Bidomics.com. Guess what? They didn't. So our friends at Americans for Prosperity got Bidomics.com. You should check it out. It's just, it's hilarious. It's good news.

Speaking of hilarious, good news, Mike Lundell, our friend, he is the main sponsor of this program through MyPillow.com and MyStore.com. So this is my exhortation to you to support Mike, who is an absolute hero. I think he's at the Supreme Court today. Big deal stuff that he does. And you can support him by going to MyStore.com and MyPillow.com and using the code Eric. Now, when you go to MyStore.com, all my books are there, including Letter to the American Church. If you want a copy of letter to the American church, you can go to my store.com and use the code Eric.

A lot of my books at my store.com are seriously discounted. I think my seven women book, my seven men book, my miracles book. If you use the code Eric, you get the hardcover at a great price. That's at my store.com. There's also the most gorgeous Barnhofer poster you will ever see at MySore. store.com. My uncle Mugsy books, the Donald, the Caveman books, all available at my store.com. You're supporting Mike Lindell. If you use the code Eric, you're supporting this program. We can use the help. So please go to my store.com. Use the code Eric to get any of my books.

I have a new book coming out called Religinalist Christianity, which is the sequel to Letter to the American Church. That's not yet available, but that will be coming out. So please support Mike Lundell at my store.com and my pillow.com. Don't you need a pillow? Don't you need sheets? Don't you need slippers? Don't you need towels? Awesome towels. Chris, you can back me up. These towels do what towels are supposed to do. Hey, towel, you had a job. They're thirsty. They're thirsty. They're thirsty. But most Americans know, like the last 15 or so years, towels have not been thirsty. Like you kind of rub your body and you're like, well, what's wrong? The towel isn't working. How could a towel be broken? Well,

It may be, yeah, Mike Lindell said it might be soft, but they put all sorts of weird detergents and fabric softens in them. So they don't have to actually. Well, because they want to sell the towel to you, but then when you get the towel, it doesn't do its work. So if you want great towels, not making it up. Go to MyPillow.com. The towels are awesome. If you use the code, Eric, you get a great discount. MyPillow.com for towels, for everything else.

You can see it. Mypillow.com. Use the code Eric. MyStore.com, all of my books, the Bonhoeffer poster, Donald the Caveman books, Uncle Mugsy books, all that stuff, and a letter to the American Church available at my store.com. If you use the code, Eric, great discount. We should also say we have a Socrates event coming up in April. That's going to be April 5th in Charleston, South Carolina. And that is going to be a blast. Mark Helperin, what can I say that I haven't already said? said, the man is an absolute insane genius. I have read four of his novels in the last two months. I am in awe of the talent. It's not just talent.

There's something very beautiful in what he communicates. So he's going to be my guest in April, April 5th, Socrates and City in Charleston. And also, don't forget to sign up for Socrates Plus. We keep putting out new stuff at Socrates Plus. It's a streaming platform. all the stuff is free to you. If you go to, if you're signed up for Socrates Plus, you can get all these different programs. And by the way, you can live stream the April 5th event on April 5th.

When we do it, you can watch it live. And I want to say that that's a lot of fun. And obviously, wherever you are, you could be anywhere in the world. But you can watch it absolutely live as we do it before we edit it. And there's always stuff that is edited out. responsible people. But I, who am not entirely responsible, will say irresponsible things. If you watch it live, you just get it raw, and that's kind of the fun of it. So you have to sign it. You'll get to see Eric's suit first. Yeah, you'll get to see what he's wearing. Maybe he's wearing a

seersucker suit because we're south of the Mason-Dixon line. Maybe I've got a warrior tattoo. By then, I might have like a Mike Tyson tattoo on. And you'll know before anyone else knows, because I hear the tattoos are very cheap in South Carolina. I'm thinking I'm going to get one. a big face tattoo. And they're permanent. And you know what? I just don't care. So you want to go to Socrates in the city to sign up for Socrates.

Plus, very important. Finally, actually not finally, penultimately, if you go to letter to the American church.com, you can now watch the film there. We are renting the film there. You don't have to go through Epic TV or anything. You just go to letter to the American church.com. Letter to the American church.

dot com, all kinds of stuff there, the free screenings. Everything is at letter to the American Church.com. And then finally, which is to say ultimately, before we get to our guests for this hour, I want to remind everybody, we're doing a fundraiser for the Alliance defending freedom. We need your help. They are battling in the Supreme Court, in other courts for our religious liberties. We've played some interviews with them and we will continue to do that. But I want to say that they are just a tiny handful of people. I could just point to them and say, give them money and you're helping the cake, the country. There's no exaggeration. There's no hyperbole. There's no caveat. They are heroes. What they're doing, they are just great, great, great people.

If they had more money, they could do more. Just the other day, I bumped into somebody who said that Alliance spending room could not take my case because they can only take so many cases. And I think this is a pure issue of money. So I want to ask people this month, we're doing this fundraiser. Go to metaxis talk.com. Please do that today. Go to metaxis talk.com. Give anything you can.

You can give a little bit monthly metaxis talk.com. And I say this again, my time is very valuable. But I'm willing to give an evening of my time to have dinner with anyone who's a able to give a huge gift of $15,000 is tax deductible to a great organization, but we can work it out and spend the evening together. It's really a delightful thing if you can do it. You're giving to one of the greatest causes imaginable. It's tax deductible. And we just get to celebrate with each other. I hope somebody will take me up on that because we need all the help we can get. Metaxus talk.com. Check it out. For more than 10 years, Patriot Mobile has been America's only Christian

conservative wireless providers standing behind their value. and their exceptional service. They're an example of putting the cause ahead of profits, and it's why I am proud to partner with them. Starting today, Patreon Mobile is extending their Black Friday deal to the Every Friday Matters deal, and you can get a free smartphone when you switch today. Patriot Mobile offers dependable nationwide coverage, giving you access to all three major networks, which means you get the same coverage you've been accustomed to without funding the left. When you switch to Patriot Mobile, you're supporting free speech, religious freedom, the sanctity of life, are veterans and first responders, and more. They're 100%

U.S.-based customer service team make switching easy. Keep your number, keep your existing phone, or for a limited time, get a free smartphone from Patriot mobile. Go to patriotmobile.com slash metaxus or call 972 Patriot and use promo code Friday 76. Again, get a free smartphone with promo code Friday 76. This is a limited time offer. Join me, make the switch today. Patriotmobile.com slash metaxus or call 972 Patriot.

Legacy precious metals has a revolutionary new online platform that allows you to invest in real gold and silver online. In a few easy steps, you can open an account online, select your medals of choice, and choose to have them stored in a vault or ship to your door. You have access to a dashboard where you can track your portfolio growth in real time anytime. You'll see transparent pricing on each coin and bar. This puts you in complete control of your money. The platform is free to sign up for. Visit legacy pm.investments.com and open your account and see this new investing platform for yourself. Gold hedges against inflation and against the volatile stock market, a true diversified portfolio, isn't just more stocks and bonds,

but different asset classes. This new platform allows you to make investments in gold and silver, no matter how small or large, with a few clicks, visit legacy pminvestments.com to get started. You're going to love this free new tool they've added, legacy pminvestments.com. Check it out. Folks, welcome back. We turn now. to the tale of our new friend Douglas Mackey. He is on the program to talk about something that should be, well, it is unbelievable, except then you hear it and then you have to believe that it's happened in America. He posted a meme.

I don't want to tell the story. First of all, Douglas Mackey, welcome to the program and please tell us your story. It's almost unbelievable, but it's true. Eric, thanks a lot for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. So long story short, back in 2016, I was sort of posting a lot of memes and content regarding the 2016 election. And I posted, I found a meme on 4chan and posted this meme. It said, attention, you know, avoid the line, save time, text your vote to Hillary, and then it had a five-digit short code. Well, you know, sort of post this meme. It got some media attention, but my Twitter account got suspended and then

sort of forget about it. Fast forward five years, Joe Biden is elected. And seven days later, I got a knock on the door at 7 a.m. in the morning down here in Florida, where I moved to back in 2018. And FBI open up, FBI open up. So they put me under arrest, said that it weren't for my arrest. I said, what for? What is this for? They wouldn't. even tell me they dragged me to west palm beach uh the courtroom there and i was arraigned only after they took me out of the leg shackles that i get a copy of the criminal complaint which had which was detailing a criminal conspiracy to injure intimidate threaten or um there's one other oppress voters in the act of voting for that 2016 election for those memes and that was back in 2021 it's been

Quite a long ride. I was convicted in a federal court in Brooklyn, New York, a very hostile sort of venue to be tried as a Trump supporter. And then I was sentenced to seven months in prison. The judge denied our motion for bond outright. She didn't even hear arguments, no hearings, nothing, no briefs. Fortunately, we went to the Second Circuit and that jail sentence was stayed pending appeal. so I'm out on bond. And now I'm currently awaiting the Second Circuit to hear the appeal, which is coming up very shortly, to see if we can win this case. So that's sort of the long and short of it. Thanks so much for having me.

Well, first of all, this is one of these things that makes my blood boil. Now, if there are people listening to this program, if this doesn't make your blood boil, I don't want you to listen to this program. I am disgusted with the idea of people who could hear a story like this and not care. This is unbelievable in the United States of America. Ladies and gentlemen, if you're not part of the solution, if you're not doing something to fight against this, you are part of the problem. I want to be real clear. If you are not doing something, people say, what can I do?

I can list 10 things you can do. I'll list one. We're doing a campaign to raise funds for the Alliance defending freedom. They are taking on court cases. to battle for our religious liberties. You can support them by going to metaxustalk.com and seeing there's a banner at the top of the page at metaxus talk.com, you can support them there.

You can share letter to the American church.com. Share that website. Letter to the American church.com. Douglas, when I hear you tell this story, it just blows my mind that this. could happen in America. It's why I wanted to have you on so that people could hear you tell this. And again, if you're not moved by this, either you're not listening or you're a cold, selfish person. Because this is astonishing that in the United States of America, you can post

something on social media. It could be funny. It could be satirical. You know what? It could even be evil. This is a free country, folks. You can post horrible stuff on the media. The idea that the FBI would target you, that they would come to your door several years later, arrest you, put you in leg irons? If this doesn't enrage you, I don't know why you don't move to China or North Korea. This should enrage every American. This is a level of injustice we've never seen in our lives. And I just want to say, Douglas, I'm so sorry that this could happen to you in the country for whom innumerable patriots have died over the decades and centuries that this could happen to you. You are right now on the other side of the worst of it.

You're not in leg irons. The FBI is not knocking down your door at 7 a.m. Let's talk about where you are now, and then I want to go back to the story. But where do things stand for you right now with regard to this case? Yeah, good question. So back in January is when we won the appeal bond with a actually bipartisan panel of judges, or rather a panel of judges appointed by bipartisan presidents. One was appointed by Biden, I believe, Obama, and then another by Trump.

So after that, we moved immediately to appeal this case to the Second Circuit Court. We filed all our briefs. The government filed all of their briefs. We even had seven great amicus briefs, including one by the highly esteemed professor in Eugene Volick. And so at this point, the oral arguments are coming up on April the 5th. And after that, the circuit court will bring down its ruling. But right now, we're in a huge fundraising hole. So anybody who's listening can go to meme defense fund.com. It's a nonprofit 501C3 or 4. or whatever, and please donate to this appeal. We'll get into the legal principles of it, but this is not some academic exercise. This affects all Americans and everybody else. So a win here is going to shut down a major avenue of censorship and political repression that the government is trying to open up.

Okay, so people can support you at meme. That's M-E-M-E-Defensefund.com. M-E. Yes, sir. M-E-E-M-E. meme defense fund.com. Well, Douglas, you know, again, when I hear this, I just think of all of the deluded Christians. Many people in my audience are self-described Christians. And I think how deluded they are that they shouldn't be involved in politics. Ladies and gentlemen, if you're not involved in politics, you are what makes this happen. You are what makes the FBI knock down somebody's door for posting a meme in 2016. Are you getting this? You post a meme in 2016.

The government comes to get you in 2021. They arrest you. They threaten you. They frighten you. This is evil. And this is because everybody who didn't vote in the 2020 election, they said, you know what? We're not going to vote this time or we don't care. Ladies and gentlemen, what we're looking at right now,

Douglas Mackey is the face of what happens, is one of the victims. are innumerable victims. I have friends that have been arrested and treated similarly. We can go down the line. My dear friend, John Strand, who was arrested for being at the Capitol on January 6th, doing absolutely nothing wrong. Treated like a criminal. He is currently in prison for this. He was in solitary for five months. This is what happens when you allow someone like Joe Biden to be in the White House. And I just want to say, again, we have people out there endorsing Joe Biden. David French, shame on him for many things, but shame on him most particularly, most recently for endorsing Joe Biden. These are the policies you're endorsing. It's the crushing of free speech. It's, again, almost

unbelievable, but I wanted to have you on Douglas because you lived through this. And it's a funny thing because a lot of people do a lot of things. You posted a meme. I can't think of anything more anodyne, more simple that somebody could do than to have the FBI break down their door and arrest them for doing. It's, it must boggle your mind a little bit like you're a figure in a Kafka novel. That's exactly what I was thinking when I, they took me out of the leg irons and I was reading this criminal complaint and they're coming up with these DMs, these direct messages, these tweets from years ago, any of the memes that they were using in their complaint as evidence or just purely political speech, let me give you an example. There was a humorous campaign that said Hillary Clinton was going

to hashtag draft our daughters to fight wars overseas. And that was based on the position that she had, that she basically wanted to open up the selective service registration to women. And so there was a humorous meme that went around and they put this in their criminal complaint and they used the memes at trial as sort of evidence that there was a criminal conspiracy that it wasn't evidence of the crime, but it was evidence of a background of a criminal conspiracy. People are sharing memes and they're coming up with memes in DM groups. So this is absolutely outrageous and it does implicate the First Amendment. It does indict the First Amendment. But that's what this government is doing. They're coming after political speech. They're trying to subvert and undermine the First Amendment however possible.

I want to say, ladies and gentlemen, I'll say it again and again and again. I don't care who you are. If you're not doing something about this, you are helping this to happen. I want to be real clear. There are all kinds of things you can do. We hope you will do any number of them. You can go to memedefense fund.com. MEME. Memdefense fund.com. You can give to the Alliance Defending Freedom. at metaxis talk.com. You can do both of those things, and you can be very generous, and I hope you will be, because everything is at stake, and it's up to you. Our God-given freedoms are facing unrelenting attacks. It's a battle for truth, and the only way we win is if we stand together. Thankfully, Alliance defending freedom has been defending our rights for 30 years and winning.

Right now, they're involved in two critical cases before the Supreme Court. They're suing the FDA for endangering the health and safety of women and girls. And in the second case, they're assisting the state of Idaho to defend its law protecting the lives of women and their unborn children against the Biden administration's attempt to override the law and force doctors to perform abortions. Think about it. They need your help.

With your best gift, you courageously join ADF in fighting critical Supreme Court cases against government lawlessness and help defend our cherished freedoms. Call 855-385-0-966. right now or go to Metaxus Talk.com. Click on the ADF banner, Metaxistock.com. With your help, I've pledged to raise $35,000 by March 31st for ADF. Go to Metaxistock.com or call 855-385-0596 to make your best gift now.

Hey, this is Eric Mettaxus. For years, I've told you about Nutrametics, a professional supplement brand trusted by doctors since 1993. Nutrametics offers a variety of health bundles. Whether you want to support your immune system, improve your sleep, promote joint, comfort or detoxification support, Nutrametics has a health bundle right for you. The best part about Nutrametics,

every year they donate a minimum of 50% of their profits to Christian charities and missions. That's right, 50% of their profits. Neutrametics has a goal of surpassing 100 million in giving by 2030. Many of you take supplements already. Switch to Neutrametics. It's the highest quality, and they donate 50% of their profits. Get 15% off by using the code Eric.

During checkout, go to Nutrametics.com and search health bundles. your health while helping others in need. Go to Nutrametics. That's N-U-T-R-A-M-E-D-I-X.com. Neutrametics.com, use the code Eric for 15% off. Again, Neutrametics, N-U-T-R-A-M-E-D-I-X. Nutrametics.com, use the code Eric for 15% off. Welcome back, folks.

I have the privilege of speaking with Douglas Mackey, who is telling us his story. Douglas, I'm repeating myself when I say over and over. is just unbelievable that this could be happening in America. It grieves my heart that this is happening to you and to others what you have been through. So many have been through this. It's designed to silence American voices. It's designed to crush freedom and liberty for which patriots have died. You're one of the faces of this, one of the victims of this.

your life since this happened. I just cannot believe that you've had to endure this, that you have to deal with lawyers because you posted a meme on the internet. This is clearly designed to silence those of us who would want to post things on the internet. This is what a Biden administration is. What has been your process in this?

I mean, did you grow up thinking you know, that you love this country and that it, but that it could ever go in this direction? I mean, I'm just curious about your own progress as the years have passed and dealing with something this horrific. Yeah, absolutely. I grew up thinking that this was America,

that we had freedom of the speech, that we didn't necessarily have a repressive government that was going to come after citizens in arbitrary manner with sort of these insane crackdowns that we're seeing. So, yeah, absolutely thought that this was America. And I even testified that at trial. I thought that we were living in America and then we have freedom of speech.

So it's been, the process for me was extremely difficult. It's been extremely grueling. I have had to lean and I've had to grow in my own faith. So that's been extremely helpful for me. And it's been three years. I was sort of putting aspects of my life on hold. but at a certain point, I just had to say, you know, it's time to move on with life. I ended up going forward to getting married to my fiancé.

We had our first son last year. So, you know, at some point, you can't let this kind of situation just sort of paralyze us, which is what they want. They want everybody paralyzed with fear and not being able to fight back or move forward or even speak out as Americans. It's extremely dangerous. Well, what's fascinating to me is that there are people who let this kind of stuff move them to do less. In other words, that's the goal of these monsters is to intimidate. And that's basically what happens.

There are numbers of people that say, you know what? I'm glad I wasn't at the Capitol on January 6th. I'm glad that I didn't post this or post that. And I just want to say to those people, what cowards you are. Shame on you. because it is because of you that the militarized forces in our government, that these weaponized forces, I should say, that the FBI and so on and so forth, that they're able to get away with this, because you say, oh, okay, it worked for me, that you're encouraging them to do more of it.

The good news is that there are people who are radicalized as a result of this. I mentioned my friend John Strand, who is in prison for simply having appeared at the Capitol on January 6th. People like that, their suffering causes them to go deeper, to go deeper with God, and to say, you know what, I'm going to spend my life being a force for good. I'm not going to sit on the sidelines. I'm going to do more than I was doing. And again, I want to exhort everybody listening to me right now. Folks, you've got to be part of the solution or you are part of the problem. There is no neutral ground. When you hear the story of what happened to Douglas, to whom I'm speaking now. It should make you ill. It should make you understand I haven't done enough. If I had

done more, this wouldn't have happened. I say that about myself. Over the years, I was not speaking out. I was not against the Patriot Act when it came out. We've discussed that with John Zemirak. We all let this happen. Now, what are we going to do? I say to you, go to the Alliance Defending Freedom on our website, metaxis talk.com, give generously, give to meme defense fund. You mentioned, Douglas, that this had deepened your faith. That's one of the other upsides of suffering is sometimes we turn to God more than we had done in the past. Were you raised as a Christian or in a Christian home, or was that something that's happened

to you more recently? So I was raised in a Christian home, sort of a mainline New England Protestant home. It's something that I fell away from for a long time. But back in 2020 is when I sort of came back to the faith. faith and I actually joined the Catholic Church. So I came back to the faith in 2020. And like I said, this has just been trial by fire. Like you said, this is the upside of suffering. Right. And that that's sort of like we all have to go through our own suffering in life. And it's, it's how we handle it. Are we going to, how do we carry our cross? So it's been a huge, in a certain way, it's been a huge,

that's the upside. It's been a huge gift. It's been a huge burden. But that's sort of the cross that we carry as Christians? Well, I mean, one of the scriptures that I quote all the time is Romans 828, all things work together for good for those that love the Lord and are called according to his purposes. So when you're attacked, when bad things happen, you know, if you give it back to God, he uses it to do something beautiful. And of course, in your life, Douglas, it has deepened your faith. It has made you, you know, more excited about what you can do for God. And, you know, good than you were before. And of course, nobody wants to suffer. But I think that those of us, when we do suffer, you know, when we get sued as I have been or attacked or canceled, losing

revenue, being canceled on YouTube as I was, all these things, you know, they kind of, for lack of a better term, they radicalizes. And they say, okay, if they're fighting that heart against me, I must be doing something right. And so I'm going to give these troubles to God. And I'm going to ask, Lord, lead me to be a force for good, a force for you in this dark culture. And so I'm encouraged. We're talking to Douglas Mackey. We'll be right back. As you know, Mike Lindell has a passion to help you get the best sleep of your life.

After he invented the world's best pillow, he created the famous Giza Dream Sheets. They're the best sheets you'll ever sleep on. The best night's sleep just got even better. For a limited time, you'll get a queen-sized set for 59-98, king's size, just 69. 99.98, the lowest prices in history. Mike and the MyPillow employees continue to be canceled by big box stores and attacked by the media. They appreciate all of your great support during these times and want to thank you by giving you the best specials on all their MyPillow products to get the best specials ever. Go to MyPillow.com or call 800-978 3057. Use promo code Eric. You get the famous keys of dream sheets, queen size 5998, king size 6998. You'll also get 60% off the original My Slippers.

so call 800-9-78-3057 or go to MyPillow.com promo code Eric. Folks, go to MyPillow.com and use the promo code Eric. Great Bargans. MyPillow.com promo code Eric. Welcome back, folks. I'm talking to Douglas Mackey. Douglas, do you have a website? Yes, sir.

You can subscribe to my substack as Douglas Mackey. Substack.com. And that's with two S's, D-O-U-G-L-A-S-S. and there's a lot of updates to my case there, ways that you can chip in. And like I said, memedefense fund.com, please donate. And you can find me on Twitter at Doug Mackey case. Okay, so Douglas Mackey and Douglas with two S's, Douglas Mackey, like glass, Douglas Mackey substack and the website for your defense fund is meme.

It's M-E-M-E defense fund.com. So, you know, again, just to refresh your story in case people didn't tune in right at the beginning, you posted a meme in 2016. This is what makes it chilling for me. In 2016, suddenly it's eight years ago, a long time ago. And it was over four years later that the FBI smashes down your door, arrests you, puts you in leg ironed. because you posted a meme, they call it disinformation. Ladies and gentlemen, this is evil.

This is wickedness in our time, almost impossible to believe this is happening in America. But if you can hear my voice, folks, you need to believe this. You need to understand that you can either be helping this happen by doing nothing or you can do something. So, Douglas, I still cannot fathom. You did this in 2016. What were you doing at that point in life just to understand? understand, you know, where you were. Right. So I was, uh, in between jobs. I used to work in

Manhattan, New York City and, uh, sort of an economic, uh, analyst role. And then so, yeah, I was in my free time, I was posting about the election, posting memes, all kinds of thing on Twitter, sort of gathered a large following. And that's where I was at the time of the election, just participating in politics as is our right, as Americans. And, what really makes this satanic to me is that what you posted was humorous. So here they are. You're posting something that is humorous. They decide, well, we're going to punish you for the joke. This is what happened to Alexander Solzhenitsyn. Ladies and gentlemen, are you tracking? Alexander Solzhenitsyn in a letter to a friend cracks a mild joke. Stalin and his henchmen don't like it. He is taken to the Gulag. He writes

the Gulaq archipelago. That was a joke. I have written in my Bonhoeffer book, or I don't know if I mentioned the Bonhofer book, but in my new book coming up at the end of April, religiousionalist Christianity, I talk about Martin Niemuller, the pastor in Germany, who cracked a joke on a telephone call to a friend of his, and Hitler, they had tapped the phone call, they read it to him, the transcript of this, to scare him, to terrorize him. That's what happens in Stalinist Russia. That's what happens in Nazi Germany. And that's what happens under the Biden administration.

And if you aren't awake, if you aren't doing something about this, I want to say it again as bluntly as I can. You're part of the problem. Now, you can be offended by that or you can accept it as a fact and repent and do something about it. Because if everybody in America doesn't take this seriously, it will eventually happen to you or to someone you love. because we didn't stand up when we had the ability to stand up. Right now we still have the ability to stand up. But, you know, Douglas, when I hear your story, I just think none of us is doing enough. We've all got to do more.

I guess, you know, when you talk about getting married, having a kid, you have hope for the future. And that's good to see in you. Tell us more about that because that's important that you've come out on the other side of this having hope. Yeah, absolutely. hope is a virtue, hope is a Christian virtue. I think that with faith, that faith does bring hope. Absolutely. So I have hope for the future, no matter how bad it gets.

And despair is a sin. So this is very important for all of us to understand. Like you said, as Christians, we have an obligation to preserve the good. That includes participating in politics to the extent that we're able. So absolutely, you're absolutely on the right track here. I would say that, you know, without faith, I'm not sure I would have any hope. God does bring a greater good out of evil. God allows evil so that a greater good can come out of it.

And that's what I'm hoping that hopefully, you know, if I can sort of submit my will to God, that that happens with my life. And I'm hoping that that happens with my case. There's a basic legal principle involved here, which is that you can't be arrested for a crime that you don't have any notice of. So this statute that they're, they prosecuted and convicted me under is about injuring people in their right to vote. It was a statute that was written because the KKK, they would go and intimidate or assault black people as they were going to the polls, which is obviously a crime. But this, like you said, there's a lot of parallels to Soviet Russia because, yeah, you can be arrested there and have no idea why you're being arrested.

and for what crime you've committed. Obviously, if I was going in line and threatening people that were voting or whatever, that's obviously a crime. But if they can go and torture these statutes to come up with sort of any interpretation they like, then none of us are on fair on notice for a crime. And then we're all second-guessing ourselves. We're all thinking before we participate in the political process, before we send a tweet, before we send a meme, which is extremely dangerous. So that's one of the core arguments.

of this appeal and I'm hoping that a greater good comes out of it. When does this appeal get heard or where are we in this? So all the briefs are in and the appeal, the oral arguments for the appeal, it's going to be before a panel of three judges in the Second Circuit Court, which involves New York, Connecticut, and Vermont, I believe. That's going to be heard on April 5th and after that the court, there's no death. for when they decide, but they'll come out with a decision, usually within a few months to a year. Well, look, it's in God's hands. I know that people who are hearing this, one thing you can do,

folks, is you can pray. Pray for this nation. Pray for this case. And I want to say, again, please be a part of the solution. Please give generously to the various websites we've mentioned. I mentioned the Alliance Defending Freedom. If you go to Metaxis talk, They are heroes fighting things like this. If you go to Metaxistalkis talk.com, you'll see the banner. That is absolutely vital, folks. Please do that. Please also share a letter to the American church.com so we can wake up Christians to understand

you've got to be in this battle. This is absolutely vital. And of course, you can support Douglas Mackey directly by going to meme defense fund. It's MEMEMEDefenseFund.com. I hope you'll do all these things, folks. God bless you. And Douglas Mackey, God bless you. Thanks for being my guest.

Thank you. God bless. It's been a privilege. Folks, welcome back. Some of you know it's my privilege on this program to highlight the work of heroes in America. And the Alliance Defending Freedom, they're at the top of the list. If you knew what they were doing, we can only touch on it on this program. But if you knew what they were doing, you'd want to help.

And that's part of why I have my. guest on Jeremy Tedesco, he's a senior counsel at ADF, senior vice president of corporate engagement for Alliance Defending Freedom. And I want to exhort everybody who's listening to help the Alliance Defending Freedom. We are in a tremendous battle in this nation, and people often say to me, what can I do? And I say, there are many things you can do. One of the things you can do, especially now, is give to the Alliance Defending Freedom. We're raising money for them on this program. And folks, I hope you have some sense of how serious this is and that whatever little bit you can do or a lot, it's really needed now. This is not, we're not exaggerating.

This is very serious. The phone number, if you want to dial, the phone number is 855-385-0-5-96. 855-385-0-5-96. And the website is metaxistalk.com. you'll see the banner Metaxistalkis talk.com. So Jeremy Tedesco, we were talking about debanking and how the federal government is attacking people in terms of their ability to do, to make financial transactions. It's a scary and amazing moment that we've come to in American history.

And to me, the only good news is that it's waking some people up. Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, we've seen debanking, especially on the basis of viewpoint, has been on the rise the last few years. This hearing last week was really kind of the crescendo of everything we've been seeing. One of our clients' indigenous advanced ministries is a small ministry in Tennessee that does relief work over in Uganda, builds wells, feeds kids, helps widows and orphans. They got debanked by Bank of America last year in April, had been a long-time customer there and just were told, look, your risk tolerance exceeds our risk-tolerance policies at this point.

No good reason at all. We see this again and in again and again. And so it's, it's, it's, It's on the rise. National Committee for Religious Freedom was debanked by Chase, the Arkansas Family Council that does pro-life and pro-religious liberty work, and Arkansas get debanked by Chase for being so-called high risk. And so we know these things are happening. We know the federal government has incredible control through the regulators that operate on a day-to-day basis in banks, supervising them to push disfavored industries and people outside of the financial marketplace. This is a real problem. And we definitely need to solve for it, whether through litigation or legislation, or just like Chairman Jordan is doing shining sunlight on this as a disinfectant.

I think the more and more we pressure banks to knock off these practices and even put regulatory, you know, pressure on them to knock it off. The better off everybody's going to be. Nobody should be afraid they're going to lose their bank account because of their political or religious beliefs. There are enough Americans who claim to love God, who claim to be Christians, that if we were all to do the tiniest bit, this stuff would end. But most Americans who claim to be Christians, who claim to love liberty, aren't doing anything. They think somebody else has this covered. And I'm here to tell you, folks, that's not right. We need to each do something.

If we each would do the tiniest bit, it would. would be game-changing, which is why we're doing this fundraiser with the Alliance defending freedom. I cannot underscore it sufficiently. We each need to do something. Some folks who are listening can do a lot, but everyone listening can do something. And I ask you, folks, please go to metaxis talk.com, whoever you are, whatever you can do, for your own consciences's sake, do something. MetaxistalkisTalk.com is the website. We're trying to raise a lot of money. Every tiny bit will help. We want you to be generous. Go to Metaxistalkisotocot.com or call 855-385-0-5-96. God bless you.