The Eric Metaxas Show - Douglas Mackey (Encore)

Episode Date: March 26, 2024

Social media influencer Douglas Mackey was sentenced to 7 months in prison for posting a MEME.

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m.investments.com. Welcome to the Eric Mataxis show. We'll get you from point A to point B. But if you're looking for point C, well, buddy, you're on your own. But if you'll wait right here in just about the two minutes, the bus to point C will be coming right by.

And now here's your Ralph Cramden of the Airways, Eric Matt, Texas. Hey there, folks. Welcome. As you know, this month, I am highlighting the Alliance defending freedom. I've talked about them for years. I've known about them for years. We've raised funds for them over the years because I believe very, very strongly in what they are doing for this country. They are heroes.

and we're asking you to get involved and to give what you can to the Alliance Defending Freedom this month. It's crucial because they are absolutely the – they're the folks that if they weren't there, we would lose the country. Now, I want you to think about that. I'm not speaking hyperbolicly. They are fighting for liberty, religious liberty, in the Supreme Court. and in other courts, they usually win. And if they weren't doing this, hostile forces are just trying to erode our liberties at every turn. So I thank God for the alliance to defending freedom.

And I thank God that today I get to speak to one of their lawyers. Eric Baptist, welcome to the program. Thank you for having me. Well, look, I love you guys so much. And I feel honored that I get to talk to my audience about you and help them, understand who you guys are and what you're doing for this nation. What are some cases that you're working on now that we can talk about just to give folks some idea of what you're doing? ADF has a broad range of cases, but one case in particular in which I am working is our lawsuit

against the U.S. Food and Drug Administration over its deregulation of chemical abortion drugs. Oh, who now, so who is bringing the suit? We have filed a lot of. lawsuit on behalf of eight different plaintiffs for national medical associations and for individual doctors. Okay. So explain this the case. When FDA approved the chemical abortion drug called Mithipristone, not old enough to remember it, be known as RU486, it put on certain safety standards because even the FDA back in the year 2000 under the Clinton administration recognized that these are high-risk drugs that need to be closely managed and regulated. But what has happened systematically since then, starting in the last year of the Obama administration in 2016 and then the

first year of the Biden administration in 2021, was they took away those essential safeguards associated with the use of these drugs. Okay, these are called, this is called the morning after pill. No, no. This is not contraception. It's not the morning after pill or plan B. It is Mithipipristone, which is approved up to 10 weeks of a baby. is it gestational life inside the womb? Okay, I want to be clear. So a woman gets pregnant and a doctor says, here, take this pill. This pill will induce an abortion. And you are saying, and I've heard this many, many times that these are dangerous drugs. They're very, they're potentially very harmful. and you're saying because of ideological, because of ideology, the left in America is removing the safeguards that were in place with the FDA.

Well, I can't say if it's ideological, but I can tell you it's not medical. And it's not what else would it be. Exactly. It's not the best interest to women's health. And what they did was it's a two drug regimen. And so people might ask, why is this a high risk drug? is the first drug is intended to end the unborn life inside the mother's womb. But it does not necessarily expel that unborn baby from the mother.

So there's a second drug that's also used. And that essentially induces labor and delivery in the woman. Okay, so it's two pills? It's two drugs, yes. Two drugs. So the first one kills the child in the mother's womb. You take a pill and the child inside you is killed. It cuts off the nutrition of the baby, and the baby ultimately starves to death.

I mean, even that, even hearing that, like, that's, the reason I bring this up, Eric, is that there's a lot of mystery around this. People don't understand what happens. So you just take a pill. You just take a pill. You take a pill and then what? Here's what happens. We've just heard it. You take a pill. The baby is starved to death in its mother's womb. That's how it is killed. That's how it is killed. It's not instant. So it's a horrible thing. Then the woman has to take a second pill, and that pill, as you said, induces labor so that the dead child is forced out of its mother. So this is called Mephepristone. Is that what it's called? Mipipristone is the first drug and mesoprostol is the second drug. Okay. So keep going and you're

saying that the FDA has relaxed regulations around these very, very powerful drugs. Yeah. So again, this two-drug regimen is so high risk that the FDA originally had three in-person doctor visits, day one to get the first drug, day three to see if any complications are occurring, and then to take the second drug. And then a day 14 follow-up exam to ensure that woman has no fetal parts remaining inside of her complications such as infections or severe bleeding. What the FDA has now approved is essentially no doctor visits, no doctor needs to be involved. So now a woman is mail these drugs without any medical supervision or attention or care and takes these drugs and self-administters and performs her own abortion in her home, inducing labor and delivery

in her dorm room, in her bathroom. And it's a painful, excruciating, and emotionally traumatic experience for the woman and obviously the baby. And so ADF, on behalf of you said eight groups is suing the food and drug administration. Correct. And why we're bringing in this lawsuit on behalf of the doctors, because our doctors are in the front lines. They work in hospitals in emergency rooms, and they're seeing an influx of women coming to the emergency room with complications associated with the use of these drugs because of what the FDA has now allowed to let these women take these drugs all alone by themselves without any medical supervision. And they want that to stop because they care about both patients. They care about the unborn baby, but they also care about the woman who's taking these drugs and the harm that they're seeing firsthand across. America's emergency rooms. It's a staggering thing when you actually hear about it. I mean, the idea that a very young woman in college, let's say, is told, yeah, just take

these pills, do this, do this, this. And she's alone. She's alone. She takes a very powerful, these are extremely powerful drugs. It kills the child inside her womb. I don't know what the woman experiences, but we can imagine that it doesn't always go according the plan and she is alone. The FDA no longer requires a doctor to be involved. It is amazing. And I don't know what it could be except ideological. It seems to me basically what they're saying

is, look, at the end of the day, we don't care about women that much. We just want to get this through. We just want it to happen. And yeah, some of it's going to go wrong, but we don't care. I mean, it seems scandalous to me. And so it's another reason that I love the Alliance Defending Freedom, that you are actually suing the FDA, forcing. Forcing the FDA. Forcing, you're them to deal with what is happening. Exactly. I call it regulatory malpractice, but FDA has shown a callous disregard for women's health in their zeal to push these abortion drugs across the country. And before I worked on this case, I guess I didn't know much about chemical abortion or

abortion drugs. And over 50%, almost 60, 60, 0% of all abortions are committed by chemical means through these drugs. Not what you think of the brick and mortar plan in parenthoods anymore. or they're done through the mail without any medical intervention or meeting any person in an office to be screened for life-threatening conditions that preclude you from taking these drugs. Well, and all, you know, the idea that, so you take a drug and it kills the child inside you, this is traumatic. This is major stuff to begin with.

Of course, I believe it's immoral. But the idea is that that young women are, being sold this story. Like, this is no problem. We're going to, we'll mail it to you. Here you go. You take this one. And then you take this one. And I can only imagine that there are a host of things that could happen. And the woman is alone. So God bless you and the Alliance Defending Freedom for stepping up. And folks, this is one of many, many cases, one of many, many cases. I want to encourage my audience, folks. Please go to metaxis talk.com. That's my radio show website, metaxistalk.com. You'll see the banner for the Alliance Defending Freedom.

We want everyone who can to give, to give generously to the Alliance Defending Freedom at Metaxistock.com. There's also a phone number. It is 855-385-0596, 855-385-0-596, or go to Metaxistocetalk.com. Eric Baptist, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. For more than 10 years, Patriot Mobile has been America's only Christian conservative wireless providers standing behind their values and their exceptional service. They're an example of putting the cause ahead of profits, and it's why I am proud to partner with them. Starting today, Patriot Mobile is extending their Black Friday deal to the Every Friday Matters deal, and you can get a free smartphone when you switch today. Patriot Mobile offers dependable nationwide coverage,

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Legacy pm investments.com. Check it out. Folks, welcome back. We turn now to the tale of our new friend Douglas Mackey. He is on the program to talk about something that should be, well, it is unbelievable, except then you hear it and then you have to believe that it's happened in America. He posted a meme. I don't want to tell the story.

First of all, Douglas Mackey, welcome to the program, and please tell us your story. It's almost unbelievable, but it's true. Eric, thanks a lot for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. So, long story short, back in 2016, I was sort of posting a lot of memes and content regarding the 2016 election. And I posted a meme on 4chan and posted this meme. It said, attention, you know, avoid the line, save time, text your vote. to Hillary and then it had a five-digit short code. Well, you know, sort of post this meme.

It got some media attention, but my Twitter account got suspended and then sort of forget about it. Fast forward five years, Joe Biden is elected. And seven days later, I got a knock on the door at 7 a.m. in the morning down here in Florida, where I moved to back in 2018. And FBI open up, FBI open up. So they put me under arrest, said that it weren't from my arrest. I said, what for? What is this for? They wouldn't even tell me. They dragged me to West Palm Beach, the courtroom there.

And I was arraigned only after they took me out of the leg shackles that I get a copy of the criminal complaint, which was detailing a criminal conspiracy to injure, intimidate, threaten. or there's one other, oppress voters in the act of voting for that 2016 election for those memes. And that was back in 2021. It's been quite a long ride. I was convicted in a federal court in Brooklyn, New York, a very hostile sort of venue to be tried as a Trump supporter. And then I was sentenced to seven months in prison. The judge denied our motion for bond outright. She didn't even hear arguments, no hearings, nothing, no briefs.

Fortunately, we went to the Second Circuit and that jail sentence was stayed pending appeals or out on bond. And now I'm currently awaiting the Second Circuit to hear the appeal, which is coming up very shortly, to see if we can win this case. So that's sort of the long and short of it. Thanks so much for having me. Well, first of all, this is one of these things that makes my blood boil. Now, if there are people listening to this program, if this doesn't make your blood boil, I don't want you to listen to this program. I am disgusted with the idea of people who could hear a story like this and not care. This is unbelievable in the United States of America.

Ladies and gentlemen, if you're not part of the solution, if you're not doing something to fight against this, you are part of the problem. I want to be real clear. If you are not doing something, people say, what can I do? I can list 10 things you can do. I'll list one. We're doing a campaign to raise funds for the Alliance defending freedom. They are taking on court cases to battle for our religious liberties. You can support them by going to metaxus talk.com and seeing there's a banner at the top of the page at metaxistalk.com. You can support them there. You can share a letter to the American. Americanchurch.com. Share that website. Letter to the American church.com. Douglas, when I hear you tell this story,

it just blows my mind that this could happen in America. It's why I wanted to have you on so that people could hear you tell this. And again, if you're not moved by this, either you're not listening or you're a cold, selfish person. Because this is astonishing that in the United States of America, you can post something on social media. It could be funny. It could be satirical. You know what? It could even be evil. This is a free country, folks.

You can post horrible stuff on the media. The idea that the FBI would target you, that they would come to your door several years later, arrest you, put you in leg irons. If this doesn't enrage you, I don't know why you don't move to China or North Korea. This should enrage every American. This is a level of injustice we've never seen in our lives. And I just want to say, Douglas, I'm so sorry that this could happen to you in the country for whom innumerable patriots have died over the decades and centuries that this could happen to you. You are right now, you know, on the other side of the worst of it. You're not in leg irons.

The FBI is not knocking down your door at 7 a.m. Let's talk about where you are now. And then I want to go back to the story. but where do things stand for you right now with regard to this case? Yeah, good question. So back in January is when we won the appeal bond with a actually bipartisan panel of judges, or rather a panel of judges appointed by bipartisan presidents. One was appointed by Biden, I believe, Obama, and then another by Trump.

So after that, we moved immediately to appeal this case to the Second Circuit Court. We filed all our briefs. The government filed all of their briefs. We even had seven great amicus briefs, including one by the highly esteemed professor Eugene Volick. And so at this point, the oral arguments are coming up on April the 5th, and after that, the circuit court will bring down its ruling. But right now, We're in a huge fundraising hole. So anybody who's listening can go to meme defense fund.com. It's a nonprofit 501C3 or four or whatever.

And please donate to this appeal. We'll get into the legal principles of it. But this is not some academic exercise. This affects all Americans and everybody else. So a win here is going to shut down a major avenue of censorship and political repression that the government is trying to open up. Okay. So people can support you at meme.

that's M-E-M-E, M-Defensefund.com. Yes, sir. M-E-M-E-M-Defensefund.com. Well, Douglas, you know, again, when I hear this, I just think of all of the deluded Christians. Many people in my audience are self-described Christians, and I think how deluded they are that they shouldn't be involved in politics. Ladies and gentlemen, if you're not involved in politics, you are, you are, are what makes this happen. You are what makes the FBI knock down somebody's door for posting a meme in 2016. Are you getting this? You post a meme in 2016. The government comes to get you in 2021. They arrest you.

They threaten you. They frighten you. This is evil. And this is because everybody who didn't vote in the 2020 election. They said, you know what, we're not going to vote this time or we don't care. Ladies and gentlemen, what we're looking at right now, Douglas Mackey is the face of what happens, is one of the victims. There are innumerable victims. I have friends that have been arrested and treated similarly. We can go down the line. My dear friend, John Strand, who was arrested for being at the Capitol on January 6th, doing absolutely nothing wrong. Treated like a criminal. He is currently in prison for this. He was in solitary for four. five months. This is what happens when you allow someone like Joe Biden to be in the White House. And I just want to say, again, we have people out there endorsing Joe Biden. David French, shame on him for many things, but shame on him most particularly, most recently for endorsing Joe Biden. These are the policies you're endorsing. It's the crushing of free speech. It's, again, almost unbelievable, but I wanted to have you on Douglas because you lived through this.

And it's a funny thing because a lot of people do a lot of things. You posted a meme. I can't think of anything more anodyne, more simple that somebody could do than to have the FBI break down their door and arrest them for doing. It must boggle your mind a little bit like you're a figure in a Kafka novel. That's exactly what I was thinking. when I, they took me out of the leg irons and I was reading this criminal complaint and they're coming up with these DMs, these direct messages, these tweets from years ago, many of the memes that they were using in their complaint as evidence or just purely political speech. Let me give you an example. There was a humorous campaign that said Hillary Clinton was going to hashtag draft our daughters to fight wars overseas. And that was based on the position that she had. that she basically wanted to open up the selective service registration to women.

And so there was a humorous meme that went around, and they put this in their criminal complaint, and they used the memes at trial as sort of evidence that there was a criminal conspiracy. It wasn't evidence of the crime, but it was evidence of a background of a criminal conspiracy. People are sharing memes, and they're coming up with memes in DM groups. So this is absolutely outrageous, and it does implicate the First Amendment. it does indict the First Amendment, but that's what this government is doing. They're coming after political speech. They're trying to subvert and undermine the First Amendment however possible.

I want to say, ladies and gentlemen, I'll say it again and again and again. I don't care who you are. If you're not doing something about this, you are helping this to happen. I want to be real clear. There are all kinds of things you can do. We hope you will do any number of them. You can go to meme, defense fund.com, m-e-em-defense. Fund.com. You can give to the Alliance Defending Freedom at Metaxus talk.com. You can do both of those

things, and you can be very generous, and I hope you will be, because everything is at stake, and it's up to you. Our God-given freedoms are facing unrelenting attacks. It's a battle for truth, and the only way we win is if we stand together. Thankfully, Alliance Defending Freedom has been defending our rights for 30 years and winning. Right now, they're involved in two critical cases before the Supreme Court. They're suing the FDA for endangering the health and safety of women and girls. And in the second case, they're assisting the state of Idaho to defend its law protecting the lives of women and their unborn children against the Biden administration's attempt to override the law and force doctors to perform abortions. Think about it. They need your help.

With your best gift, you courageously join ADF in fighting critical Supreme Court cases against government lawlessness and help defend our cherished freedoms. Call 8.4. 355-385-0-596 right now or go to metaxis talk.com. Click on the ADF banner, Metaxistock.com. With your help, I've pledged to raise $35,000 by March 31st for ADF. Go to Metaxus talk.com or call 855-385-0-596 to make your best gift now. Hey, this is Eric Metaxus. For years, I've told you about Nutrametics, a professional supplement brand trusted by doctors since

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Go to Nutrametics. That's N-U-T-R-A-M-E-D-I-X.com. Neutrametics.com, use the code Eric for 15% off. Again, Nutrametics, N-U-T-R-A-M-E-D-I-X.com, use the code Eric for 15% off. Welcome back, folks. I have the privilege of speaking with Douglas Mackey, who is telling us his story. Douglas, I'm repeating myself when I say over and over, it's just unbelievable that this could be happening in America. It grieves my heart that this is happening to you and to others what you have been through. So many have been through this. It's designed to silence American voices. It's designed to crush freedom and liberty for which patriots have died.

You're one of the faces of this, one of the victims. of this. Your life since this happened, I just cannot believe that you've had to endure this, that you have to deal with lawyers because you posted a meme on the internet. This is clearly designed to silence those of us who would want to post things on the internet. This is what a Biden administration is. What has been your process in this? I mean, did you grow up thinking you know, that you love this country and that it, but that it could ever go in this direction? I mean, I'm just curious about your own progress as the years have passed

and dealing with something this horrific. Yeah, absolutely. I grew up thinking that this was America, that we had freedom of speech, that we didn't necessarily have a repressive government that was going to come after citizens in arbitrary manner with sort of these insane crackdowns that we're seeing. So, yeah, absolutely.

thought that this was America. And I even testified that at trial. I thought that we were living in America and then we have freedom of speech. So it's been, the process for me has been, was extremely difficult. It's been extremely grueling. I have had to lean and I've had to grow in my own faith. So that's been extremely helpful for me. And it's been three years. I was sort of putting aspects of my life on hold. But at a certain point, I just had to to say, you know, it's time to move on with life. I ended up going forward to getting married to my fiance. We had our first son last year. So, you know, at some point, I can't let these, you can't let this kind of situation just sort of paralyze us, which is what they want. They want everybody

paralyzed with fear, not being able to fight back or move forward or even speak out as Americans. It's extremely dangerous. Well, what's fascinating to me is that there are people who let this of stuff, move them to do less. In other words, that's the goal of these monsters is to intimidate, and that's basically what happens. There are numbers of people that say, you know what, I'm glad I wasn't at the Capitol on January 6th, or I'm glad that I didn't post this or post that. And I just want to say to those people, what cowards you are, shame on you, because it is because of you that the militarized forces in our government, that these, weaponized forces, I should say, the FBI and so on and so forth, that they're able to get away

with this because you say, oh, okay, it worked for me, that you're encouraging them to do more of it. The good news is that there are people who are radicalized as a result of this. I mentioned my friend John Strand, who is in prison for simply having appeared at the Capitol on January 6th. People like that, their suffering causes them to go deeper, to go deeper with God, and to say, you know what, I'm going to spend my life being a force for good. I'm not going to sit on the sidelines. I'm going to do more than I was doing. And again, I want to exhort everybody listening to me right now.

Folks, you've got to be part of the solution or you are part of the problem. There is no neutral ground. When you hear the story of what happened to Douglas, to whom I'm speaking now, it should make you ill. It should make you understand I haven't done enough. If I had done more, this wouldn't have happened. I say that about myself. Over the years, I was not speaking out. I was not against the Patriot Act when it came out. We've discussed that with John Zmirak. We all let this happen. Now, what are we going to do? I say to you, go to the Alliance Defending Freedom on our website, metaxis talk.com. Give generously,

give to meme defense fund.com. You mentioned, Douglas, that this had deepened your faith. That's one of the other upsides of suffering is sometimes we turn to God. more than we had done in the past. Were you raised as a Christian or in a Christian home, or was that something that's happened to you more recently? So I was raised in a Christian home, sort of a mainline New England Protestant home. It's something that I fell away from for a long time.

But back in 2020 is when I sort of came back to the faith, and I actually joined the Catholic Church. So I came back to the faith in 2020, and like I said, this has just been trial by fire. like you said, this is the upside of suffering, right? And that's sort of like we all have to go through our own suffering in life, and it's how we handle it. Are we going to, how do we carry our cross? So it's been a huge, in a certain way, it's been a huge, that's the upside. It's been a huge gift. It's been a huge burden, but that's sort of the cross that we carry as Christians.

Well, I mean, one of the scriptures that I quote all the time is Romans 828, all things work together for good for those that love the Lord and are called according to his purposes. So when you're attacked, when bad things happen, you know, if you give it back to God, he uses it to do something beautiful. And of course, in your life, Douglas, it has deepened your faith. It has made you, you know, more excited about what you can do for good than you were before. And of course, nobody wants to suffer. But I think that those of us, when we do suffer, you know, when we get sued as I have been or attacked or, you know, canceled, losing revenue, being canceled on YouTube as I was. All these things, you know,

they kind of, for lack of a better term, they radicalizes. And they say, okay, if they're fighting that heart against me, I must be doing something right. And so I'm going to give these troubles to God. And I'm going to ask, Lord, lead me to be a force for good, a force for you, in this dark culture. And so I'm encouraged. We're talking to Douglas Mackey. We'll be right back. As you know, Mike Lundell has a passion to help you get the best sleep of your life. After he invented the world's best pillow, he created the famous Giza Dream Sheets. They're the best sheets you'll ever sleep on. The best night's sleep just got even better.

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Okay, so Douglas Mackey and Douglas with two S's. Douglas Mackey, like glass, Douglas Mackey substack, and the website for your defense fund is meme. It's M-E-M-E-Defensefund.com. So, you know, again, just to refresh your story in case people didn't tune in right at the beginning, you posted a meme in 2016. This is what makes it chilling for me. In 2016, suddenly it's 18. years ago, a long time ago. And it was over four years later that the FBI smashes down your door, arrests you, puts you in leg irons because you posted a meme. They call it disinformation. Ladies and gentlemen, this is evil. This is wickedness in our time, almost impossible to believe this is happening in America. But if you can hear my voice, folks, you need to believe this. You need to understand that you can either be helping this happen by doing nothing or you can do something. So, Douglas, I still cannot fathom. You did this in 2016. What were you doing at that point in life just to understand,

you know, where you were? Right. So I was in between jobs. I used to work in Manhattan, New York City, in sort of an economic analyst role. And then so, yeah, I was in my free time, I was posting about the election, posting memes, all kinds of things on Twitter, sort of gathered a large following. And that's where I was at the time of the election, just participating in politics as is our right as Americans. And what really makes this satanic to me is that what you posted was humorous. So here they are.

You're posting something that is humorous. They decide, well, we're going to punish you for the joke. This is what happened. to Alexander Solzhenitsyn. Ladies and gentlemen, are you tracking? Alexander Solzhenitsyn in a letter to a friend cracks a mild joke. Stalin and his henchmen don't like it. He is taken to the Gulag. He writes the Gulag archipelago. That was a joke. I have written in my Bonhofer book, or I don't know if I mentioned the Bonhofer book, but in my new book coming up at the end of April, religiousist Christianity, I talk about Martin Niemeller,

the pastor in Germany who cracked a joke on a telephone call to a friend of his. And Hitler, they had tapped the phone call. They read it to him the transcript of this to scare him, to terrorize him. That's what happens in Stalinist Russia. That's what happens in Nazi Germany. And that's what happens under the Biden administration. And if you aren't awake, if you weren't doing something about this, I want to say it again as bluntly as I can. you're part of the problem. Now you can be offended by that or you can accept it as a fact and repent and do something about it. Because if everybody in America doesn't take this seriously, it will eventually happen to you or to someone you love because we didn't stand up when we had the ability to stand up. Right now we still have the ability to stand up. But, you know, Douglas, when I hear your story, I just think none of us is doing enough. We've all got to do more. I guess, you know, when you talk about getting married,

having a kid, you have hope for the future, and that's good to see in you. Tell us more about that, because that's important that you've come out on the other side of this, having hope. Yeah, absolutely. Hope is a virtue. Hope is a Christian virtue. I think that faith does bring hope. Absolutely.

So I have hope for the future, no matter how bad it gets. And despair is a sin. So this is very important for all of us to understand. Like you said, as Christians, we have. an obligation to preserve the good. That includes participating in politics to the extent that we're able. So absolutely, you're absolutely on the right track here. I would say that, you know, without faith, I'm not sure I would have any hope. God does bring a greater good out of evil. God allows evil so that a greater good can come out of it. And that's what I'm hoping that hopefully, you know,

if I can sort of submit my will to God, that that happens with my life. And I'm hoping that that happens with my case. There's a basic legal principle involved here, which is that you can't be arrested for a crime that you don't have any notice of. So this statute that they're, they prosecuted and convicted me under is about injuring people in their right to vote. It was a statute that was written because the KKK, they would go and intimidate or assault black people as they were going to the polls, which is obviously a crime. But this, like you said, there's a lot of parallels to Soviet Russia because, yeah, you can be arrested there and have no idea why you're being arrested and for what crime you've committed. Obviously, if I was going in line and threatening people

that were voting or whatever, that's obviously a crime. But if they can go and torture these statutes to come up with sort of any interpretation they like, then none of us are on fair notice for crying. And then we're all second-guessing ourselves. We're all thinking before we participate in the political process, before we send a tweet, before we send a meme, which is extremely dangerous. So that's one of the core arguments of this appeal, and I'm hoping that a greater good comes out of it. When does this appeal get heard, or where are we in this? So all the briefs are in, and the appeal, the oral arguments for the appeal, it's going to be before a panel of three judges in the Second Circuit Court, which involves New York, Connecticut, and Vermont, I believe. That's going to be heard on April 5th, and after that, the court, there's no deadline for when they decide, but they'll come out with a decision, usually within a few months to a year.

Well, look, it's in God's hands. I know that people who are hearing this. One thing you can do, folks, is you can pray. Pray for this nation. Pray for this case. And I want to say, again, please be a part of the solution. Please give generously to the various websites we've mentioned. I mentioned the Alliance Defending Freedom. If you go to metaxis talk.com, they are heroes fighting things like this. if you go to metaxis talk.com, you'll see the banner. That is absolutely vital, folks. Please do that. Please also share a letter to the American church.com so we can wake up Christians to understand you've got to be in this battle. This is absolutely vital. And, of course, you can support Douglas Mackey directly by going to Meme Defense Fund. It's MEMEME MEMDefenseFund.com.

I hope you'll do all these things, folks. God bless you. And Douglas Mackey, God bless you. you. Thanks for being my guest. Thank you. God bless. It's been a privilege. Hey, folks. It's my privilege to continue a conversation with Caleb Dalton. He's a senior council with the Alliance Defending Freedom. I will say it again and again and again. Alliance Defending Freedom are heroes because they represent other heroes who have no recourse who are being attacked by overreaching big government entities that hate our liberties.

I mean, we are in a war for our liberties. And right now we're talking about a war that concerns not just our liberties, but the very lives of unborn human beings. We have to step up and help the Alliance defending freedom because without them, it's over. You were just saying, Caleb, that first choices in New Jersey, they've been attacked by it's Governor Murphy, is it? The Attorney General Placken. So you guys bring a case and it's dismissed.

Like basically the court says, nah, no, we don't think so. We don't care. So you have to appeal to the Supreme Court of the United States. Is that right? That's right. And it's really unconscionable. The attorney general didn't even ask for the case to be dismissed.

The judge did it on his own. And so what we have here are resource centers who are doing God's work, protecting, providing for women who are literally saving babies' lives, like you said. And they're being harassed by the attorney general. So we're asking the Supreme Court to reinstate that case and allow it to go forward to prevent this harassment across the board. This is something we're seeing all over the country. Those on the left, the secular left, they have become dramatically aggressive. And if those who disagree with them are not aggressive in fighting them, we lose.

It's no longer a happy day where, you know, we have people advocating on this side and that side. and we'll figure it out. No, they are being as radical as they can in stripping away what the founders gave us in our founding documents. They are stripping them away. And when I think of the Patriots who died, if you're listening to this program, you did not die for this country. But Patriots have died for this country and for the Constitution. And we owe them everything to preserve what they bequeathed to us. And it's why we partner with the Alliance Defending Freedom. They are on the front lines battling. So Caleb Dalton, you're telling us that this court in New Jersey dismisses the case. And again, when you hear the details of it, you think this is pretty obvious

overreach. This is horrifying. This is an attempt to terrorize people into silence, to get them to back away from doing what they're doing to threaten people who work with this pregnancy center, just to get people to say, okay, well, we'll just back off. So you have to fight. It's wrong. And you're bringing this now to the Supreme Court. So when was that decision made that you had to take this up to the Supreme Court? It was literally just a few weeks ago that this has been such a rush, kind of a whirlwind of litigation. We had to file an emergency petition with the Court of Appeals. that was denied and then up to the Supreme Court. It takes a lot of resources and I just want to say, Eric, thank you to you for doing this

and for bringing attention to this because I get to come to work every day. We represent these resource centers for free. We don't charge them anything. They couldn't afford to pay attorney's fees for something like this because it's about freedom that we're fighting for for all Americans. And folks, think of the corruption. Think of the corruption. Planned Parenthood and others have a lot of money.

They make money from killing children in the womb. They make money. They are for profit. And then they take that money and they, you know what, they give to campaigns of people like the folks we're talking about in New Jersey. They give to their campaign. Will you play ball with us? Will you help us to keep doing what we're doing for women's reproductive health, which is actually killing children in the womb? Will you help us?

It's, forgive me for stating it so bluntly. But these are wicked figures working hard with money supplied to them by folks like planned parenthood to crush our religious liberties and to crush people into silence. So I want to say, please go to metaxis talk.com. You'll see the banner. I ask you to give generously. I'll give you a phone number 855-38596. We really need your help.

Please dial 855-385-0-5-96 or go to Metaxus talk. right now.