The Eric Metaxas Show - Dr. Anjeanette Roberts

Episode Date: April 6, 2020

Dr. Anjeanette Roberts of the Reasons to Believe research organization gives her insightful and helpful update of the Coronavirus during this critical time.

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Folks, I try to ignore that and I fail. I'm talking to Paul Lim, L-I-M, who is an academic at Vanderbilt University. We're having a wonderful conversation now about theology and history. Paul Lim, we were just talking before the break about this split. And I've talked about this many times. It really fascinates me. This idea that there's a holistic kind of, Christian faith, which is true faith, that says, I'm supposed to care about people's salvation, and I'm

supposed to care about people in this world. And so if I'm William Wolverford Forest, I'm supposed to care about abolishing slavery. I'm not supposed to say, hey, who cares? It's all going to burn. The only question is, are the slaves going to heaven or hell? No, slavery is an abomination. It's an evil, and God wants me to deal with this in this world. And so that's split where some people, all they care about is, let's say, evangelism and salvation. And then on the other hand, you have people that couldn't care less about that. All they care about is ameliorating things in this world, sometimes with no reference to God whatsoever. It is an odd split, and it's, it's a theologically broken. Somehow we're supposed to do both. So in your academic studies of history,

where do you see that break happening before where I see it happening? Because you know, you didn't study, or your period is not the period of my will-before story. But do you see the roots of this, the seeds of this before that time, let's say, in the 17th century? Yeah, no, I think it's, that was much more holistic and non-bifurcated at that time. And I think there's a very fine book that deals with early Christian perspectives on wealth and poverty, a scholar at Westbound College by her name Helen Reed. I think there's a very fine book. I think is called helping the poor and saving the rich. So meaning this, that the rich by giving their kind of material possessions for the sake of the poor, they were actually both doing each other great, great

favors. Material salvation on the one hand and spiritual salvation and the two, it's almost as if I need you to be me and you need me to be you. That seems like a deeply Christian concept. It is actually Martin Bueber and his book, I and Bob. Of course, Hoover got their book. before we did, of course. Yeah, right. No, I mean, that's one of the books that I read in college that, again, rock my world. The whole idea that it's not I and it, because we tend to have a sort of instrumentalist approach to things.

I am here to get things and conquer things and crush it. But Buber talked about, I need to have that I and thou relationship with things. So I do think that, I mean, you can always trace it back to Jesus. And sometimes misapplication of Jesus' teachings. Usually misapplications, right? Right. Right. By saying things like, well, Jesus said, the poor, you shall always have with you. Therefore, we can abdicate our responsibility to those less privileged than we are seems to indicate a sort of a tragic misreading of scripture. But at the same time, I do think that, I do think, I don't want to underestimate the enormous influence that American Christianity has had over the rest of the world's interpretation of scripture. There is a kind of more recent scholarship coming out on looking at 19th century America as a kind of a building of America's moral empire. It also dovetails with the kind of beginning of Protestant kind of missionary movements. So therefore you see the state and the church kind of merging together to kind of, and it does

happen even today about, you know, what is the rule? I mean, the city on a hill, does that still have kind of some kind of purchase today? How does America, should America shed itself of a American exceptionalistic thinking? Some would say vehemently, absolutely. Others would say, Well, it does seem to me that America has some kind of self-imposed or other expected mantle of leading in areas of rural. Before you leave today, I'm going to force a copy of my book if you can keep it into your hands. It's not an academic work, but it deals with this because in the course of reading a book by Oz Guinness, called the Free People's Suicide, I was really moved by it, and I've been thinking along these lines of, you know, American exceptionalism and the scripture for years. And I finally wrote a book called If You Can Keep It, in which I deal with this very issue, because it seems to me that the irony or the paradox at the heart of American exceptionalism, it's very similar to the DNA is Christian in the sense that the reason I would say Christianity is the best faith or is the only true faith is at the same time the declaration that I'm no more special than anyone in the world.

In other words, the two go hand in hand. It's kind of a that American exceptionalism would say America is exceptional. because of these ideas, not because we are inherently or racially exceptional, but because of a number of ideas, which we have no right to keep to ourselves. In fact, we have every, we have the burden to share these with the world, which is why, you know, John Winthrop quoting Jesus, to be a shining city on a hill is so that people will want what you have. They will look and they will be inspired and moved. So in other words, the whole point of shining is for them, not for yourself. Right. And the whole point of America being blessed is to be a blessing to the other nations and so on and so forth.

So it's a bit of a conundrum. If you understand it wrongly, it quickly takes you into chest thumping, you know, jingoism. Right. But that's not what is meant by it. And I think you're right. But both have happened, though, right? You know what I mean? So there is a wrong application of this kind of exceptionalistic attitude.

And on the other hand, the right application of that sort of. but humble sharing, as Luther would put it, if the gospel is from one poor beggar telling another beggar, this is the bread and this is how you find it. That's right. But I do think that when we, I mean, so I think for me, as someone who's more Calvinistic in my theology, total depravative humanity is a great point of humility. Yes. Because though our theology may be watertight, but our application and outworking thereof in my own life,

I find so many kind of fault. So, I mean, I often tell students this. I said the best lesson I've ever learned in my life was actually at a London tube stop, subway stop, because they will tell you mind the gap, right? So life is about minding the gap between theory and practice. My proclamation, my confession on the one hand, and how I live it out, and there is that sort of conundrum. There is that sort of a gap. And so I need the spirit of God to mind that gap for me to bring me to the point of recognizing that I may not have all the answers.

That's, I mean, this is what's so, this is why it's a conundrum and a paradox, because, you know, at the same time you're asserting something strongly. Yes. Your posture is one of profound humility, you know, so it's a kind of bold humility. That's right. And there's no way around that. I mean, that's what the scripture is. I guess I think of Bonhofer, who is in the subject of my other biography, but he wrote a book called The Costs of Discipleship. And he's making this point, you know, great.

race because of the Lutheran roots of Germany had become so watered down and accepted by the time of the 1930s when he wrote the book that he calls it cheap grace. Right. In other words, he says grace is costly. Right. If you believe that God came to earth to die a torture death for you, you are going to live dramatically differently. You're going to accept his grace by wanting to live out your whole life to pay it back, to do you. do something in response to this beautiful thing. That's right.

And so he makes that case. And so some people could say, well, that's works. And you say, well, no, it's not works. It's a response to grace. And you go round and around you go. Right. I mean, so you're absolutely right. So on the European side, you know, there is Dietrich Bonner, who, as a result of experience

at Union Seminary, became, as we will call more woke, right? Yeah. At the same time here in America, there was H. Richard Niever who wrote this book called the Kingdom of God in America, where he's raising the same kind of question. there is a hollowness to our faith. And he says, you know what? We are proclaiming God without wrath and Christ without the cross. And he, H. Richard Niebuhr, as a mainline theologian,

was pointing out something at the kind of American Protestantism that we need to actually not take away these things, you know, the centrality of the cross and so on and so forth. And I think for Bonhofer, yes, that whole aspect of cheap grace, right? Or the cost of discipleship is that when Christ calls, that calls a man or woman to come and follow, that means you come and die. This is heavy stuff. Unfortunately, we're out of time.

When you come back to New York, we're just going to continue the conversation. What a joy. Paul C.H. Lim, thank you for being with us. Thank you. It's a great delight. Hey there, folks. Welcome to the Erkmataxis show. You've already been listening to the show.

We've been talking to Dr. Paul Lim, not to be confused with Paul Lind, the comedian and the center square in Hollywood squares. Dr. Lim has been talking about the history of Christianity. Following this segment, we're talking to another kind of doctor, a molecular virologist who's going to give us an update on the coronavirus where we are right now. But I do want to mention, first of all, a couple seconds, we're going to mention the big winner from last week. We had a big winner, as you know, every week. We're done. with raising money for food for the poor and for the folks in Guatemala. But our latest winner will be announced in just a second.

Before that, I want to tell you what we're doing on Friday. We've got a lot of great stuff all week long. But Friday, which of course is good Friday, for everyone who's not Eastern Orthodox, that is. We're airing a special program based on a book by Colin Smith. The title of the book is Heaven, How I Got Here. and it's the story of the thief on the cross from the Gospels. It's told in his own words. Obviously, this is fictionalized.

But as you remember, he's now in heaven and he looks back from heaven on the day that changed his life, his eternity actually, not his life. The day that changed, that gave him eternal life when Jesus said, I remember me when you come into your, when he said to Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. And of course, Jesus did remember him and he entered heaven. So don't miss that this Friday, Heaven, how I got here. A special Good Friday edition of the Eric Mataxis show, this Friday only.

Okay. So, Albin, I think we've got to announce our big winner. Okay, yes, I know. People are waiting with bated breath. And here it is, here it is, here it is. Mark Bajima, Mark Bajima from Zeeland, Michigan. again. So Mark, you get the big grand prize, books and a visit to the studio and the whole nine yards. Say that name again, Mark.

Bejima. It's got B-A-J-E-M-A-Bajema. You know what? That's another Dutch person from Michigan. I'm furious. I can't stand the Dutch. That's not true. But it's just so funny. I love these Dutch names. Everybody in Michigan almost, it seems to me, is Dutch. So we have a Dutch winner. That's, this is fantastic. And by the way, what's the first name? Mark. Mark, if you, Mark, can't come to New York and take advantage of this, you can deputize someone else, someone who's coming to New York or someone who lives in New York. These tickets are transferable, so to speak.

And we're going to be sending you a bunch of signed books, copies of all my books, and Albin's books. And my new book is called Seven More Men. I'm really excited. That comes out. I think this week, this is a big week. This is Holy Week. My book launches. And the ninth, which is in a couple of days, is the 75th anniversary of the death of Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

Very strange that we're not able to celebrate it appropriately because of this lockdown. I guess I want to talk. else do we have coming up this week to remind me we have some great people tomorrow we're supposed to to get sam sorbo you know kevin sorbo hercules his wife is going to be on talking about homeschooling which is a big big deal right uh terry maddingley's going to talk about easter and pasca john smirac on wednesday and the pences you know the vice president's wife and daughter are going to be talking about their their bunny book okay this is from last year and michael brown's going to talk about the resurrection. That's on Thursday. And of course, heaven, how I got here on Friday. So a huge week.

All right. Speaking of cool stuff, we're just the other day. Remember I mentioned that show that we watched on, I guess it was Hulu called Hunderby? Yeah. And it was so horrible. And I immediately had to say to my audience, whatever you do, don't watch it because it starts out extremely promising. And it gets so dark, I would never dream to tell you on the air some of the stuff. It's like pornographic. And it's a pity because some of it is so brilliant. But it was so bad that I thought, what can we do to wash that out of our brains? And Suzanne, my wife, told me that because of this coronavirus shutdown and people can't go to theaters,

some of these first-run movies that would normally not be available, you know, on streaming service at home, have been made available. One of them is the new edition of Emma, the Jane Austen film, which came out just a few months ago. And I thought, why don't we see, if we want to watch that? Suzanne had read some good things about it.

And we watched it with our daughter on Saturday night. And it was so good. I said, I must go on the air and rave about it because there was not a flicker of political, correctness of revisionism. It was just a beautiful version of Jane Austen's wonderful novel, Emma, which is really a comic novel, beautiful story, redemptive story, beautiful story. Jane Austin obviously was a Christian. We don't know if she was an out-and-out evangelical, but she had to have been aware of Wilberforce and Hannah Moore. And to think that, you know,

that world comes to life in a film like this one. It's extremely well done, brilliantly acted, but the production values and the production design, I should say, is unlike anything I've ever seen. It's as though Wes Anderson had designed this film. The colors, the shots, the costumes are so beautiful that it is breathtaking, and it's worth watching just for that. some of the music is glorious.

There are a number of hymns that are played. I forget who sings them, but they are absolutely heavenly. The whole thing was so wonderful. And I just thought when somebody does something this well, we are obliged to rave about it because there is so much darkness out there in the world of entertainment. Every film, you know, almost every single film, wrong at least slightly or completely. And it's just so refreshing to see a film like this. The director,

a woman named Autumn, I can't think of her last name, Duh, something, has done a magnificent job. It is her first, it is her directorial debut, which is almost unbelievable. But she is the, She's a very famous photographer, and she shot a lot of music videos and things, and her father was himself a famous photographer. But what she has done visually, you can see her background as a photographer. Just the colors and the production design, if the production designer does not win the Oscar, I will be stunned because I have never seen anything so beautiful. So I want to recommend that film.

I also want to recommend No Safe Spaces, which is a... documentary. Our friend Dennis Prager did it with Adam Carolla. And those of us in the Salem world, we're furious because this great film about free speech has itself been censored in a number of ways. People on the other side of things in terms of worldview don't believe in free speech, don't believe in a lot of the wonderful things that we believe in. So they're perfectly happy to censor, you know, accuse people of censoring them but then themselves to censor. So there's an ugly irony there. Chris and Alvin, is there anything that we need to talk about before we go to the immunologist or I'm sorry, the molecular virologist? I think we've covered a lot. Chris, do you have anything?

We have such a big week ahead. I'm still working on more guests for the bunker. No, I mean, you know, we're just, I'm still bunkered down with the six kids here. We're trying to I figure out, usually we go down to Maryland from Easter and do a hunt with my parents. And obviously this year, it's probably not going to happen. So I'm going to have to hide some eggs and, you know, do some baskets and all this stuff up here. So that'll be a little bit of a challenge. Around the house. Yes, exactly.

Why not? Yeah, why not? You know, it's funny. I came up with an idea that, you know how people used to say the phrase? Like, if you did something, you say, oh, that was dumb. Why did I do them? People say to you, hey, don't worry about it. It's not the end of the world.

Well, unfortunately, a lot of people are thinking, is this the end of the world? But here's the hopeful thing. I want to mention this. This is the hopeful thing. I think things are going to be, once this virus is behind us, and hopefully this is by the fall, we are going to go out there and have so much partying and so much generosity and so much fun that years from now, you know how people used to say, let's party like it's 1999. People are going to say, you know what, let's party like it's 2020.

That's how good things are going to be. Yeah, exactly. I want to encourage people, too, that a lot of us are drawing closer to God during this time. I have to confess that my own prayer times and Bible readings are much better during this time. It's very interesting. I think a lot of people are finding faith. I directed a lot of my relatives yesterday to watch the same sermon that I did online. A lot of good things going on.

When we come back, we're talking to a molecular. virologist, folks, thanks for listening. Hey there, folks. This is the Eric Metaxus show. We want to bring you up-to-date information on this virus pandemic that's going on. And of course, how could we? Unless we happen to be able to reach out to someone who is a molecular virologist. We are friends, of course, as you know, with reasons to believe.

And we've had Dr. Hugh Ross on this program. innumerable times and at reasons to believe they have their one Dr. A.J. Roberts, who's in fact a molecular virologist and has done SARS research at the National Institutes of Health. And we welcome you, Dr. A.J. Roberts, welcome to the A.J. Roberts. Welcome to the Airman Taxis show. Thank you so much, Eric. I'm really happy to be here today. Well, we're thrilled to have you. Well, tell us anything you can tell us, because I know, you know, less about viruses than almost anything. Yeah, I think one of the most important things to lead off with is that the coronavirus, the SARS coronavirus, is actually a very hearty virus. And most people think respiratory viruses are some of the easiest ones to get rid of and kill.

And it's just not true with the SARS coronavirus. Now, why, forgive me, but why are you calling it the SARS coronavirus? I think that's the first time I've ever heard of it referred to that way. Yeah, that's actually what it's officially been categorized by the viral taxonomy scientists, because it's so similar to, the original SARS outbreak virus of 2002, 2003, about 80% similar. So it's technically almost like that virus. So they're calling it SARS-2. So is the original SARS virus? Was that also a coronavirus? Yes, it is. And it was the first coronavirus that caused lower respiratory infection and actually led to this acute respiratory distress, this really bad case of pneumonia that's killing people.

And so SARS in 2003 had a 10% fatality rate on a global level, but not many people were infected. So what is the difference between the original SARS and this, not in terms of the virus, but in terms of why the original SARS did not become a global pandemic? Yeah. So the original SARS only made it into about 27 countries, and it caused disease relatively quickly. So within five to seven days, people would become symptomatic. You could isolate those people and you could trace their contacts and isolate those contacts. And so public health interventions were able to be implemented right away.

And it resulted in just over 8,000 cases and just under 800 deaths. But I thought this was similar. I thought this. Well, but it's not because the incubation period is longer and up to 80% of people can be asymptomatic. so they can be spreading the virus without feeling sick themselves. See, that's the shocking thing. I have to say the fact that that many people can be asymptomatic because I thought, I know I don't have it,

and yet you're telling me people who know they don't have it may in fact have it. That's, I mean, that's hard to believe. Explain that a little bit to us. It's very counterintuitive, I agree. But what they've seen in studies in China is that people are able to shed the virus. If you actually go in and do chest x-rays, they show signs of infection by the chest x-rays, but they don't feel sick. They don't have symptoms.

They're not coughing. They don't have a fever. And yet they're able to shed the virus. And so we don't understand exactly why on an immunological level yet, but it's true. And what else happened with the original SARS? When was the original SARS virus? So it started in November of 2002. It peaked in April of 2003.

by July of 2003, it was gone. And we were successful because in getting rid of it, primarily because of public health intervention. So they identified the animal reservoir. It came into the human population from bats by. Where geographically? What country? South, southeastern China, Guangdong province.

And so it arose in an animal market as well as this one probably did. It was transmitted from something that was sort of like a weasel. called a civic cat. And so it came from bats into civic cats into humans. And so China shut down those markets. They called or killed thousands of civic cats. And then we practiced barrier isolation, and we practiced contact tracing. And that brought an end to that SARS situation in 2003. And of course, China did not deal as effectively with this outbreak. Well, so this one, we're not positive. yet what the animal reservoir is. And so they had some severe pneumonia cases in December,

but, and as you know, that became an epidemic in China that then spread. It's now in 180 different cases. Over 1.2 million people infected. This virus is far more transmissible and probably for reasons associated with the virus biology, but also because of the asymptomatic and the duration of infection. of being able to shed the virus without showing signs of sickness. So it's really hard to isolate people. It's really hard to contain it.

How long, in other words, if someone does get the virus, I had heard, I had thought that you would know within two weeks. That's why they had this two-week lockdown. Yeah, that's true. Within two weeks, if you're going to develop symptoms, 99% of people will show symptoms within a two-week period. But not everyone. So let's say you have another 10,000,

people you release after two weeks. Out of those 10,000, maybe another hundred will go on to develop symptoms, but not very many. And comparing that with the first SARS virus, you'd said it was five days or something? Yeah, so it was an average of five days for onset. Symptoms could start as soon as two days after infection, but most people had symptoms by five days. The course of disease, again, lasted a couple of weeks, although some people could shed virus for up to a month.

There was one report where someone shed virus for just over two months. But those were going to forgive me. I just realized we're out of time. We're going to be right back, folks, talking to Dr. AJ Roberts. Don't go away. Hey, folks, it's the Eric Mataxis show. As you know, we are in the bunker.

We are all isolated, but we're still able to have some guests on the program. We're thrilled today to have from our friends at reasons to believe, which you may know through our friend, Dr. Hugh Ross, who's been a program on the program many times, to have with us a molecular virologist. Hey, are you impressed? I hope you are. Because we don't have molecular virologists on every day. Today we have A.J. Roberts, Dr. Roberts. Welcome back. Thank you, Eric. I'm really glad to be here. Well, this is also fascinating to me. Now, I was under the impression that this virus, which you have just told us, I'd never heard this before, that it's a, it's another, it's not just another

coronavirus, it's another SARS coronavirus, but you're saying that this one takes longer to manifest symptoms. I had heard that it was about the same length of time, that within a few days, most people would manifest symptoms, but it could be up to two weeks. Yes, that's true. Although I guess we don't really know if the answer is most. Those people that are going to be asymptomatic, most of them will have symptoms by five and a half days. But will most people who are infected develop symptoms? We think the answer to that question is no, that most people, 50 to 80 percent, will be asymptomatic. This, again, is news.

I don't think of this show as a newsbreaker show, but it seems to me we're breaking news because everything I've heard on this has not touched on this idea that so many people, might be utterly asymptomatic because I think that if you are asymptomatic, you feel a certain freedom in, you know, hanging out with other people who are asymptomatic. It's one of those things that it doesn't seem to me it's been publicized sufficiently if that's the case. Perhaps it hasn't been publicized sufficiently. But, you know, the CDC just ordered, they just suggested that people that are going out in public wear some kind of face covering. Right.

And that's really because of this asymptomatic possibility of spread. I know, but that's literally yesterday. That was literally yesterday. So until just now, we haven't been hearing this. And I'm just amazed, frankly, to think that that many people could be asymptomatic. Do we have any idea why people would be asymptomatic? Would it just be general health? If you're in tremendous health, your body may be able to fight this away, even though you have it. That may be it. It may also be the viral dose at the time of infection, like how much virus were they exposed to? It could be where the virus sets up infection. Is it setting it up through the respiratory tract, which is what most of the cases will be? But coronaviruses can also set up gastrointestinal infections. And so it's possible that it could set up through different routes. We don't actually know why people are asymptomatic.

I'm fascinated in listening to you just because I realize how little I know about this. What you just said, you know, how much of the virus someone might have been exposed to, it never occurred to me that that was a factor. In other words, I thought one is either exposed or is not, but you're saying that there are degrees of exposure. There certainly are with other viruses, and we don't know that's something that's called, well, it impacts something called viral load.

How much virus are you taking in that's actually setting up the infection? And there's a couple of other things that we might think of along those lines. How many virus particles does it take to set up an infection? but how many do you actually get exposed to? And those two things with other viral infections can affect the course of disease. I heard a doctor on the internet yesterday. He seemed to be desperately trying to get a message out that he said that what he was seeing did not strike him as the coronavirus. In other words, he was wondering if it was maybe sometimes being misdiagnosed.

He said that people were having trouble getting. getting oxygen as though they were suddenly at the top of Mount Everest and that they were dying that way. Can you speak to that? I wasn't really clear on what he was getting at. Although I'm not a medical doctor, I do know quite a bit about pathophysiology of the infection because of my work on SARS back in 2003 to 2006. And so what happens is the virus is actually infecting the lung tissue and it's destroying a couple of different kinds of pneumocytes or lung cells. And that destruction actually affects the exchange of oxygen from the lung into the bloodstream. And so there's also a cytokine storm, sort of an immune response,

that sends in a type of repair that lays down a cell type called fiberblasts. And that repair can also set up a barrier between the oxygen and the blood. And what happens then is you basically have systematic organs shut down because the organs aren't receiving the oxygen that they need. And so it is a very damaging kind of pneumonia that's very severe. I was going to say it strikes me as really pernicious because you're talking about people who may be taking in oxygen through their nose and mouth, and that is not getting into their bloodstream.

Is there a way to do a bypass around that? Is there a way to get oxygen into people's bloodstreams in other ways? Or does one need functioning lungs? You know, I'm going to have to punt that question to a medical doctor or a respiratory therapist. I think there may be ways to oxygenate blood, but I don't know that we've looked at that in the case of treatment. I'm just fascinated to learn so much. We've only got a couple of minutes left. What else can you tell us about this virus? You've already told us a number of things that we didn't know. Anything else that is going through your head at this point that we might want to know? Yeah, I think there's a couple of things, and I'll try and be brief on both.

Both, but one that was just really brought to my attention in the last few hours is that it seems like domestic cats may be able to catch the virus and replicate the virus and perhaps shed the virus. There's one preprint study that shows that ferrets and cats can both be infected. There was a case of a cat in Belgium who tested positive after their owner had the virus. And then a tiger at the Bronx Zoo has tested positive. It seems like cats are possibly infected. The other thing is that, you know, I just spaced on what the other thing is. That's what happens sometimes. Well, but what you've just said, I mean, when I saw the report, I guess yesterday about the tiger at the Bronx Zoo, I said, excuse me, what?

If a tiger can be infected, what other animals can be infected? And don't we need to take that extremely seriously? We do need to be very cautious. And I would say that this one pre-print study coming out of a group from China is suggesting that ferrets and cats can be. They tested also like cows, pigs, dogs, and they saw no susceptibility in those animals except a low level of susceptibility in dogs. And that repeats a couple of observations from Hong Kong as well. I'm afraid we're about out of time. Dr. A.J. Roberts, extremely grateful to you and extremely grateful to the folks that reasons to believe a wonderful

ministry. Thanks so much. Thank you, Eric. Hey there, folks. It's here from The Texas Show. We've been talking to Dr. A.J. Roberts with reasons to believe. Reasons to believe is one of the greatest

ministries in the world dealing with faith and science. Dr. Hugh Ross is a friend. Genius. Check out reasons to believe. So we were talking about the virus and I was talking just now to my crew here, Albin and

James and Chris Heimes. And James, I just found out, You said that your dad was just found to have the virus. Did I get that right? Yeah, he originally went in. So they went to go get, my mom went to go get tested because they were a little nervous about it. And then the doctor told him when they were at the doctor's office, told me to go to the ER because he had high blood sugar because he's a diabetic. And then they found that he had the virus.

So he had to stay there. He's not, you know, he's not not breathing or anything. He's pretty stable right now. So you should be able to come home. My mom, hopefully, she'll get her test soon and then see if I can get tested because they said, don't even bother. You don't have the cough or the fever, or at least a heavy cough or fever. But what we just learned, I mean, from talking to Dr. Roberts, that people can be asymptomatic.

And you're telling me your dad was, in fact, working at Wegman's grocery store. So he had been continuing with his job. So it is very likely he caught it there. Yeah, three people at his office were diagnosed, and my mom works at a doctor's office, and she, four of her employees, or two or three of her employees are positive as well. It's crazy that you just, and some of them didn't have symptoms. This is wild. This is so wild. Anything before we, we end hour two today, Albin or Chris, I'm trying to remember. I just want to comment on what you said about the tiger. Was it the tiger?

The tiger? Yeah, who is going to put the mask on the tiger? That's what I'm going to. That's what I want to know. Wow, you know what? I never thought of that. Well, think about it. Tough stuff.

Also, Puehle going on the claws is tricky too. The what? Purell going on the claws is tricky. I know. That reminds me of what is that old saying who's going to bell the cat, right? Like the mice are hanging out and they said, hey, I got an idea. If the cat was wearing a bell, every time, you know, we heard the bell, we'd know the cat was near and we could run away. Simple solution.

And then somebody said, right, but who among us is going to bell the cat? That's the question. I still, the idea that animals could have this, that opens up another can of worms. You've got a few cans of worms open at this point. Unbelievable. Well, let me remind folks, we're going to be doing this program all this. week. On Friday, we have a special presentation. We won't be doing that presentation this good Friday, but we're doing the program all this week. We've got bunker videos. We're putting all

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